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(ZDNet)   Refusing to wear a RFID-chipped badge? That's an expulsion   (zdnet.com) divider line 175
    More: Asinine, RFID, Rutherford Institute, tenth grade, surveillance state, badges, bar codes  
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7492 clicks; posted to Geek » on 21 Nov 2012 at 9:25 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-21 12:05:45 PM

dittybopper: JinxofSpades: dittybopper:

No.

Having teachers take attendance is fundamentally different from tracking student movement via RFID.

How so? Data collection is data collection.

Do teachers formally record data on who passes by certain areas at all times? No? RFID does.

Saying "data collection is data collection" is pretty stupid. That's like saying "motor vehicles are motor vehicles", which is true, but it places electric RAZOR scooters in the same category as the Knock Nevis or the Saturn V.

Automated data collection is significantly more capable than manual data collection, or we'd still be using manual methods. It's intuitively obvious to the most casual observer.


You're nitpicking a bit. His point is still valid. If taking attendance and using hall monitors is acceptable, why isn't this? The goal of taking attendance and employing hall monitors is to ensure that students are where they are supposed to be within the school. The RFID system is simply a superior means to those same ends.
 
2012-11-21 12:09:04 PM

dittybopper:
Do teachers formally record data on who passes by certain areas at all times? No? RFID does.


Though I alluded to an answer to this in my prior post, I'll do so explicitly here. The answer is no, teachers do not, but the school does. That's exactly what hall monitors are for. They may not record every name of every student, but they watch for students who are not where they are supposed to be.
 
2012-11-21 12:11:57 PM

Raharu: Do you object to the school and the police/EMS knowing if your kid is off campus if there is a shooting or other emergency like a fire?


I think part of the issue is people thinking that students in school should have the same rights as adults in public. They see it as a draconian infringement on rights, similar to public police cameras. I think that's the dividing line here. I for one think students are already treated like cattle with few rights, because they are not adults, so this RFID stuff doesn't change anything.
 
2012-11-21 12:14:30 PM

hinten: Student makes all the right decision for all the wrong reasons.

" It is a direct violation of their Christian religious beliefs, as it bears a striking resemblance to Revelations 13: 16-18 warning of the Mark of the Beast."


What is wrong about the reasons? Those are her beliefs. Doesn't matter if she is right or wrong. We are supposed to have religious freedom right? So if she should not base her decision on her beliefs, what should she do... base them on someone else' beliefs?
 
2012-11-21 12:22:03 PM

HindiDiscoMonster: hinten: Student makes all the right decision for all the wrong reasons.

" It is a direct violation of their Christian religious beliefs, as it bears a striking resemblance to Revelations 13: 16-18 warning of the Mark of the Beast."

What is wrong about the reasons? Those are her beliefs. Doesn't matter if she is right or wrong. We are supposed to have religious freedom right? So if she should not base her decision on her beliefs, what should she do... base them on someone else' beliefs?


It entirely misses the point of the mark of the beast though. It was a way of telling those who supported rome from those who didn't.
 
2012-11-21 12:23:23 PM

tallguywithglasseson: according to Infowars.

WTF?


That's where I stopped reading.

Anyone check with the school to see if it
1) exists
2) has an RFID based system
3) expelled a student over it

It shouldn't be that hard. Infowars: Fighting reality since 2000 BCE.
 
2012-11-21 12:24:30 PM

Antimatter: HindiDiscoMonster: hinten: Student makes all the right decision for all the wrong reasons.

" It is a direct violation of their Christian religious beliefs, as it bears a striking resemblance to Revelations 13: 16-18 warning of the Mark of the Beast."

What is wrong about the reasons? Those are her beliefs. Doesn't matter if she is right or wrong. We are supposed to have religious freedom right? So if she should not base her decision on her beliefs, what should she do... base them on someone else' beliefs?

It entirely misses the point of the mark of the beast though. It was a way of telling those who supported rome from those who didn't.


Well NOW you're expecting Christians to actually understand their own theology, which is just silly.
 
2012-11-21 12:24:59 PM

HindiDiscoMonster: hinten: Student makes all the right decision for all the wrong reasons.

" It is a direct violation of their Christian religious beliefs, as it bears a striking resemblance to Revelations 13: 16-18 warning of the Mark of the Beast."

What is wrong about the reasons? Those are her beliefs. Doesn't matter if she is right or wrong. We are supposed to have religious freedom right? So if she should not base her decision on her beliefs, what should she do... base them on someone else' beliefs?


Mittens saved baby penguin! If Mittens chose to save baby penguin based on his beliefs, and Mitten's beliefs are not in his direct control, does Mittens really have free will?

i.imgur.com
 
2012-11-21 12:26:09 PM

Antimatter: HindiDiscoMonster: hinten: Student makes all the right decision for all the wrong reasons.

" It is a direct violation of their Christian religious beliefs, as it bears a striking resemblance to Revelations 13: 16-18 warning of the Mark of the Beast."

What is wrong about the reasons? Those are her beliefs. Doesn't matter if she is right or wrong. We are supposed to have religious freedom right? So if she should not base her decision on her beliefs, what should she do... base them on someone else' beliefs?

It entirely misses the point of the mark of the beast though. It was a way of telling those who supported rome from those who didn't.


I understand what you are saying, but that misses my point.... it doesn't matter if she is right or wrong... those are her BELIEFS... In this country beliefs are sacrosanct. If they do not interfere with anyone else' liberty, then they cannot be touched.
 
2012-11-21 12:29:49 PM
I'm just shocked that the school district actually had enough money to throw away on something that provides zero benefit to education.
 
2012-11-21 12:31:19 PM
There is something to be said for teachers recognizing their students and noticing when they are present or absent. If they require RFID chips to know whether or not their students are all present I think they have a bigger problem.
 
2012-11-21 12:31:53 PM
This allows the school to track the student's location after leaving campus and for as long as the badge is on the student's person.

Perhaps the laws of physics cease to exist in San Antonio?! Were these magic RFID tags?? Did the school buy them from the same guy who sold Jack his beanstalk beans?!?!?!
 
2012-11-21 12:33:22 PM

DoBeDoBeDo: serial_crusher: This allows the school to track the student's location after leaving campus and for as long as the badge is on the student's person.

So they wired up the whole city of San Antonio, possibly the entire world, with those RFID readers or what? And people say Texas doesn't spend enough on the education budget.

It will be years before people stop confusing GPS and RFID. I know a doctor who thought they could track his dog anywhere on earth because he was micro-chipped.


ROFL

/asthma attack
//ROFL
/// Where's my inhaler??!?!
 
2012-11-21 12:40:40 PM

Antimatter: HindiDiscoMonster: hinten: ***snip***

It entirely misses the point of the mark of the beast though. It was a way of telling those who supported rome from those who didn't.


I am simply interpreting your comment based on what is in the article as I have no knowledge of the verses that were referred to, but her overarching point seems to be, "This is a bad system that I don't support, and even if I wear a badge with no tracker, it would be impossible to differentiate me from the people who do support this idea."

To me, that seems in line with what your comment says about the verses that were referenced.
 
2012-11-21 12:47:59 PM

wildcardjack: tallguywithglasseson: according to Infowars.

WTF?

That's where I stopped reading.

Anyone check with the school to see if it
1) exists
2) has an RFID based system
3) expelled a student over it

It shouldn't be that hard. Infowars: Fighting reality since 2000 BCE.


Points 1 and 2 are truth.

Frankly I was thinking the same thing. I don't know enough about this system to know if it is any different than computerized attendance that many districts are using right now. Does the system actually tell the office if a student in in Hallway Zone 3-B, or if they have entered the bathroom but not left? Perhaps all it does is put an entry into the attendance database as to what class room the student is currently in.

Being a school system, I also wonder how poorly managed it is. Sure they may have this nifty system, but if the clueless clerks in the front office can't work it, or the underpaid sysadmins did a poor job setting it up, how accurate and worthwhile is it?
 
2012-11-21 01:02:35 PM

weiserfireman: pciszek: dittybopper: I could to that with a pennies worth of aluminum foil.

You sure? I tried wrapping a cell phone in aluminum foil as a demo of the fact that "there is no electrical field inside a conductor", but it still rang when called.

Hey, my browser tries to force the british spelling of "aluminium".

You have to have an earth ground to make a faraday cage out of aluminum foil. Just wrapping a phone with foil, and no ground makes it an antenna


No, you don't need to ground a faraday cage to shield whatever is inside from RF. You *DO* need to ground it to protect from things like static electrical charges, but that's a horse of a different color.
 
2012-11-21 01:07:12 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: dittybopper:
Do teachers formally record data on who passes by certain areas at all times? No? RFID does.


Though I alluded to an answer to this in my prior post, I'll do so explicitly here. The answer is no, teachers do not, but the school does. That's exactly what hall monitors are for. They may not record every name of every student, but they watch for students who are not where they are supposed to be.


See, that's the difference: A hall monitor (we didn't have them at our school) is there mainly just to make sure nothing happens. They don't record the name of every single person who passes by them with the date and time.
 
2012-11-21 01:09:39 PM

HindiDiscoMonster: hinten: Student makes all the right decision for all the wrong reasons.

" It is a direct violation of their Christian religious beliefs, as it bears a striking resemblance to Revelations 13: 16-18 warning of the Mark of the Beast."

What is wrong about the reasons? Those are her beliefs. Doesn't matter if she is right or wrong. We are supposed to have religious freedom right? So if she should not base her decision on her beliefs, what should she do... base them on someone else' beliefs?


And his belief is that she has the wrong belief about the school's beliefs.
 
2012-11-21 01:14:14 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Raharu: Do you object to the school and the police/EMS knowing if your kid is off campus if there is a shooting or other emergency like a fire?

I think part of the issue is people thinking that students in school should have the same rights as adults in public. They see it as a draconian infringement on rights, similar to public police cameras. I think that's the dividing line here. I for one think students are already treated like cattle with few rights, because they are not adults, so this RFID stuff doesn't change anything.


You are absolutely right that students don't have the full rights that adult citizens have, but they *DO* have some rights.

My objection is that you are training students to be subject to totalitarian style tracking at an early age.

Now, I punish the littlebopper when he exceeds what he is allowed to do, but I also try to balance that against age-appropriate independence. I don't mind that he defies me a little: It shows that he has a mind of his own. I want to encourage that in a healthy way, not beat it out of him through an electronic dog collar.

I mean, RFID badges are essentially that, aren't they? Sure, they don't shock the kids physically, but I bet if they break the perimeter they'll send someone out to retrieve them (assuming the system is installed on the exterior doors. That would prevent many forms of ditching. Not that I encourage that, but a little rebellion in a child is a good thing.
 
2012-11-21 01:16:23 PM
Over 116 posts and no one has mentioned why schools want to use RFID.

It's about money, of course. Schools get money based on average daily attendance. If a kid doesn't answer classroom roll call, the school loses money. But if the school can verify that the kid is somewhere on campus, no money is lost. RFID does the job.
 
2012-11-21 01:24:03 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Over 116 posts and no one has mentioned why schools want to use RFID.

It's about money, of course. Schools get money based on average daily attendance. If a kid doesn't answer classroom roll call, the school loses money. But if the school can verify that the kid is somewhere on campus, no money is lost. RFID does the job.


Wait till this gets implemented in Chicago. If you can vote, you can go to school.
 
2012-11-21 01:39:56 PM
Fark... FARK?!?!

Did you not notice how hot the author is?!

cdn-static.zdnet.com

You guys are slipping... wtf?
 
2012-11-21 01:49:38 PM

the_geek: Bloody William: I hear stories about how the schools have changed since I graduated. Small steps at first, but then metal detectors, more surveillance, more strict rules.

You have to justify larger budgets somehow.


Larger budgets for what? Teachers in this state have had their pay cut every year for several years now.
 
2012-11-21 01:49:41 PM
Rally your fellow urchins and leave a pile of badges on the ground in front of the office.
 
2012-11-21 01:53:20 PM

JohnnyC: Fark... FARK?!?!

Did you not notice how hot the author is?!

[cdn-static.zdnet.com image 140x105]

You guys are slipping... wtf?


Can't see her knees, they must be sharp.
 
2012-11-21 02:01:11 PM
Sure, give kids the ability to create alibis with little to no effort.
"There's no way I beat him up, I was in the library! Check my badge if you don't believe me!"

Or better yet, steal the unpopular kid's badge, trash the place, and disappear into the night leaving all evidence pointing to someone else. Yes, what could possibly go wrong.

And this is coming from someone who thinks RFID is pretty cool.
 
2012-11-21 02:15:28 PM

Antimatter: HindiDiscoMonster: hinten: Student makes all the right decision for all the wrong reasons.

" It is a direct violation of their Christian religious beliefs, as it bears a striking resemblance to Revelations 13: 16-18 warning of the Mark of the Beast."

What is wrong about the reasons? Those are her beliefs. Doesn't matter if she is right or wrong. We are supposed to have religious freedom right? So if she should not base her decision on her beliefs, what should she do... base them on someone else' beliefs?

It entirely misses the point of the mark of the beast though. It was a way of telling those who supported rome from those who didn't.


And it makes for an extremely potent tracker and identifier. I'd think the current belief system is as follows:

1.People get "Mark Of the Beast" with logical and reasonable explanation of benefits
2.Evil Entity X begins correlating data, allowing them to identify those with Belief Y
3.Evil Entity X attains power and starts to oppress or even exterminate those identified with Belief Y
4.Only those with Belief Y who managed to avoid the "Mark" survive
5.Prophet?

Thing is, anything could be Belief Y, from specific groups of Christians to Gays and Liberals. So it's not just Christians who should be worried.
 
2012-11-21 02:19:10 PM
They offered to let her wear a non-chipped version if she would publicly acknowledge her total compliance with the program and sign a form saying she did not object to the RFID tracking. She refused.

She stood up for what she believes, whether or not it was based in crazy religious B.S.-- You have to respect that.
 
2012-11-21 02:22:55 PM

wildcardjack: tallguywithglasseson: according to Infowars.

WTF?

That's where I stopped reading.

Anyone check with the school to see if it
1) exists
2) has an RFID based system
3) expelled a student over it

It shouldn't be that hard. Infowars: Fighting reality since 2000 BCE.


It's not that I doubt that some school has RFID student IDs, just that I'm not interested in the interpretation or conclusions of someone who considers infowars a legitimate source. And from ZDNet? Seriously, WTF?
 
2012-11-21 02:29:39 PM

elchupacabra: Thing is, anything could be Belief Y, from specific groups of Christians to Gays and Liberals. So it's not just everyone besides Christians who should be worried.


Call me crazy, but I don't think that the 73% have to worry about being "singled out."
 
2012-11-21 02:34:20 PM
What prevents students from putting the RFID badge in their locker and skipping school the next day? Would the system count the student as being in school?
 
2012-11-21 02:36:25 PM

Bossk'sSegway: What prevents students from putting the RFID badge in their locker and skipping school the next day? Would the system count the student as being in school?


60 RFID badges in one bathroom stall.
 
2012-11-21 02:44:11 PM

Raharu: Sorry Luddites but the future is coming, RFID is not invasive.

When an RFID tagged school has a shooting and the police are able to tell if the kids are out of the building, or who is still trapped inside I think you may change your tune...

When something insane goes down at a factory, and the EMS crews need to know the last location of employees, or where to search for survivors or bodies I think this tech will show its value.

toot toot.

As long as RFID chips are not INSIDE you, its possible to ditch the tag... they even offered this chump an RFID free badge.


The protest isnt against the tech. It is against *how* the tech is being used. The admins are not using it to protect the students from harm. They are using it to turn the students into more $$ for the school district's pockets. In effect, the children are nothing more than cattle to the admins.

*That* is what we need to protest against.
 
2012-11-21 02:46:20 PM

Bossk'sSegway: What prevents students from putting the RFID badge in their locker and skipping school the next day? Would the system count the student as being in school?


You have it passed from friend to friend who are taking the same classes as you.
 
2012-11-21 02:50:34 PM
There are different kinds of RFID cards. For example the RFID badge we have to wear at my workplace have a company logo, our picture and first name - the RFID chip is used to open doors; this card has a range of about 4 inches. The RFID card in some credit-cards seem to have a range of a few feet. The RFID card that I have to put in my car window for the toll bridges and tool roads has a range of over 50 feet. They are all about the sized card (though the car one is a little thicker.) So yes, if they use the same kind of tech in the TollPass card in the kids school ID - then yes, they could put readers all over town and track them everywhere.

Then again they could put facial recognition and cameras everywhere. (Oh wait.. they already do in some places.)
 
2012-11-21 02:56:00 PM
Yup. Infowars.

The same people who believe that 9/11 was directly engineered by the United States government and their NWO/Illuminati/Reptilian masters. The cranks that believe FEMA runs concentration camps.
 
2012-11-21 02:58:36 PM

HindiDiscoMonster: What is wrong about the reasons? Those are her beliefs. Doesn't matter if she is right or wrong. We are supposed to have religious freedom right? So if she should not base her decision on her beliefs, what should she do... base them on someone else' beliefs?


Beliefs are a choice, religion is a choice. Maybe they are the wrong choices (according to someone else) and should believe what she is told.

/Now shut up and be a good slave.
 
2012-11-21 03:10:15 PM

red5ish: There is something to be said for teachers recognizing their students and noticing when they are present or absent. If they require RFID chips to know whether or not their students are all present I think they have a bigger problem.


One word: CAFETERIA.
 
2012-11-21 03:11:24 PM
Thank Bog we have money for this system but not for paper and pencils.
 
2012-11-21 03:25:58 PM
Here is a link to a more reputable source

Clickypops
 
2012-11-21 03:29:48 PM

HindiDiscoMonster: hinten: Student makes all the right decision for all the wrong reasons.

" It is a direct violation of their Christian religious beliefs, as it bears a striking resemblance to Revelations 13: 16-18 warning of the Mark of the Beast."

What is wrong about the reasons? Those are her beliefs. Doesn't matter if she is right or wrong. We are supposed to have religious freedom right? So if she should not base her decision on her beliefs, what should she do... base them on someone else' beliefs?


Freedom of religion is part of the first amendment. Just like freedom of speech.

Schools are able to restrict students' speech. Why can't the school ignore a student's religious beliefs as well?
 
2012-11-21 03:33:07 PM

NecoConeco: Here is a link to a more reputable source

Clickypops


From that link:

The family says they don't want their daughter wearing the badge for religious reasons.

Fark the other students - they can all burn in hell. But our precious snowflake should be able to point and laugh at them as they burn.

/yeah, a bit much
//but Christians persecuted in Texas?
///LOLOLOLOLOL
 
2012-11-21 03:35:56 PM
Thank God I went to a great public education program that didn't have us wear trackers around our necks.

/ I never thought I'd type that!
 
2012-11-21 03:57:40 PM

Rockstone: Thank God I went to a great public education program that didn't have us wear trackers around our necks.

/ I never thought I'd type that!


Note: I love the public education system, I just never thought I could add "doesn't track students" to the list..
 
2012-11-21 04:34:45 PM
Couldn't the students just, well, wreck the actual chip? It could happen by accident quite frequently anyways.
 
2012-11-21 04:47:07 PM
and yet she happily carries around her cellphone wherever she goes, LOL.
 
2012-11-21 05:26:28 PM

hinten: Student makes all the right decision for all the wrong reasons.


I would think the right decision would have been to prioritize getting a convenient and free* education over taking a principled stand against making it easy for the principal to know when you're cutting class.

/ * "free" meaning tax-subsidized
 
2012-11-21 06:45:02 PM
Point 1.
Persons under the age of 21 are MINORS. While minors are alloted certain rights, they do not enjoy all of the rights and freedoms of an adult. School ID is required in most schools today, and has been for years. If you are worried about the mark of the beast, your social security ID card covers that, it is in your hand or you memorized the numbers and is in your head...
Point2.
If the RFID access points were people, and those people were taking names and time stamping the name, would there be an outcry over that? The teachers used to take attendance all the time, and no one complained then. RFID makes it easier to keep record of your attendance.
Point 3.
Education is mandatory, school is not. How and where is unimportant, the results are, as long as the person passes state certified tests proving they learned the required material. If a person wanted to learn on their own, more power to them, as they usually learn more than required.
 
2012-11-21 07:14:45 PM

bullsballs: Point 1.
Persons under the age of 21 are MINORS


While technically true, you mean 18. I didn't make any further in your post because really, if you get that one wrong out of the gate, it's all going to be downhill from there.
 
2012-11-21 07:48:14 PM
she can always go to school in Mexico.
 
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