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(Jerusalem Post) NewsFlash Bus explodes in central Tel Aviv, at least 10 injured   (jpost.com) divider line 405
    More: NewsFlash, Tel Aviv, Ramat Gan  
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3745 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Nov 2012 at 5:50 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-11-21 12:58:36 PM  

Tatsuma: No, because Bibi is weak and a pushover, it's always what ends up happening whenever he gets a wee bit of pressure.


You know, I've never seen anyone describe Netanyahu this way.
 
2012-11-21 01:02:12 PM  

MmmmBacon: Chuck Ruffcorn: MmmmBacon: Chuck Ruffcorn: MmmmBacon: seadoo2006: Give the Palestinians a nuke, make the fight fair and watch the show.

/Popcorn ...

Israeli special forces would take it from them before it could be used, and now Israel has another bomb to add to the collection. And there would be a lot more dead Palestinians.

MAD will not work in a situation this chaotic.


Isn't that what's going on though? I'd bet if Israel didn't have to worry about other Arab/Islamic states retaliating they'd already have launched. MAD works both ways; it can keep both sides from doing anything or keep both sides upping the stakes one small step at a time.

1967. Israel fought off multiple invading forces from Arab neighbors on all sides, and frankly kicked their asses in the process. Israel does not need to fear their neighbors, they've already proven that even without a Nuke they can and will stomp any Arab country that threatens them. If Israel was so interested in dropping The Bomb, they would have by now. On Iraq, for example, to destroy their nuclear program. Instead they went conventional in that raid. Why? Because Israel isn't the blood-thirsty, nuke-happy monster you portray it to be.


Really? I portrayed Isreal as a blood thirsty, nuke-happy monster?

You ever wonder why people ignore you?

Allow me to point out a quote for you: I'd bet if Israel didn't have to worry about other Arab/Islamic states retaliating they'd already have launched. You said that, did you not? Pretty sure you did. Yup. You specifically stated that Israel would have used their nukes by now, if it were not for fear of retaliation from Arab states. That, my friend, would be the definition of a blood-thirsty, nuke-happy monster.

So yes, you most certainly did portray Israel as such. Live by your words, I'm happy to do so, and so can you. Or you can ignore me, your choice. I really don't give a flip what you do in that regard.



Ignoring people isn't MY thing. I just think you misinterpreted what I wrote - it happens.

For the record, I do not believe Israel is blood thirsty or a nuke-monster, nor is that what I said. But, I do believe Israel is facing an enemy that wants them wiped off the face of the earth and they're smart enough to know that and smart enough to know that until their side or the other is gone it's going to be blood and semantics forever. I'm also pretty sure Israel knows that ending this fight once and for all will really only provoke other others that support the other side.
 
2012-11-21 01:04:29 PM  

orbister: cman: Say whatever the fark you want about Israel, at least they are not actively targeting civilians

Except by imposing a blockade on Gaza to punish the majority of civilians there for the acts of the tiny Hamas minority?


Hamas is the Democraticly elected group that runs Gaza.
 
2012-11-21 01:11:21 PM  

MmmmBacon: Amos Quito: So no, the Brits were not entirely in favor of ethnically cleansing the area of for the sake of Jews, but that WAS the Zionist plan from the beginning, and given their endless expansion and persecution of the Palestinians, appears to remain as the chief Zionist goal to this day.

Wait, what "endless expansion and persecution of the Palestinians"?



LOL! A purely rhetorical question, I presume.


MmmmBacon: If Israel wanted to take every single acre of land currently held by Palestinian groups, they could easily do so. Easily.



Yeah, and you could mug elementary school students for the lunch money - "easily". But you might not like the consequences.


MmmmBacon: And yet, they haven't, have they? In fact, if the evil Zionists were as hell-bent on destroying the Palestinians (as your overall post implies), they have had decades in which they could have done so, again rather easily, having vastly superior military might. Again, this hasn't happened.

Why is that?



Because the worldwide repercussions of such overt naked aggression would be devastating. Israel would immediately come under horrendous sanctions, penalties and possibly even attack from other Western nations. Worse still she would lose the support of Uncle Sugar-daddy, who would cut of her allowance and her access to toys, and then she WOULD be in trouble.

No, all Zionist aggression MUST be disguised as "defense". Israel must ALWAYS play the "victim card" so that her duped supporters will continue to support the suicidal Zionist regime.


MmmmBacon: Could it be that maybe, just maybe, you are wrong?


Anything is possible, I suppose.


MmmmBacon: Suggestion: Why not fly on over to Gaza and see about helping the Palestinians yourself? See if you can't talk Hamas into, oh, not launching rockets at Israel from playgrounds and the tops of apartment buildings? Feel free to report back and let us know how that went.


Me? Travel to Gaza? The Zionist version of the Warsaw Ghetto?

Thanks but no thanks.
 
2012-11-21 01:14:46 PM  

dr_blasto: You know, I've never seen anyone describe Netanyahu this way.


well you haven't spoken to a lot of Israelis
 
2012-11-21 01:16:42 PM  

Tatsuma: MmmmBacon: Tatsuma: Israeli and Egyptian sources: Ceasefire to be announced at 8

Well, that would be a good thing, assuming it holds.

No this is the worst thing, because it only means that we will be back at this within 4 years, most likely 2 and possibly months



So what's the kill ratio now? Has it hit the 100/1 mark yet?

Because if not, I doubt the Zionists are ready for a cease-fire.
 
2012-11-21 01:17:22 PM  

Tatsuma: dr_blasto: You know, I've never seen anyone describe Netanyahu this way.

well you haven't spoken to a lot of Israelis


Heh, I suppose not. His demeanor is all tough-guy on the outside. Maybe he's all soft and fluffy on the inside and just wants to cuddle?
 
2012-11-21 01:20:13 PM  

Amos Quito: MmmmBacon: Amos Quito: So no, the Brits were not entirely in favor of ethnically cleansing the area of for the sake of Jews, but that WAS the Zionist plan from the beginning, and given their endless expansion and persecution of the Palestinians, appears to remain as the chief Zionist goal to this day.

Wait, what "endless expansion and persecution of the Palestinians"?


LOL! A purely rhetorical question, I presume.


MmmmBacon: If Israel wanted to take every single acre of land currently held by Palestinian groups, they could easily do so. Easily.


Yeah, and you could mug elementary school students for the lunch money - "easily". But you might not like the consequences.


MmmmBacon: And yet, they haven't, have they? In fact, if the evil Zionists were as hell-bent on destroying the Palestinians (as your overall post implies), they have had decades in which they could have done so, again rather easily, having vastly superior military might. Again, this hasn't happened.

Why is that?


Because the worldwide repercussions of such overt naked aggression would be devastating. Israel would immediately come under horrendous sanctions, penalties and possibly even attack from other Western nations. Worse still she would lose the support of Uncle Sugar-daddy, who would cut of her allowance and her access to toys, and then she WOULD be in trouble.

No, all Zionist aggression MUST be disguised as "defense". Israel must ALWAYS play the "victim card" so that her duped supporters will continue to support the suicidal Zionist regime.


MmmmBacon: Could it be that maybe, just maybe, you are wrong?


Anything is possible, I suppose.


MmmmBacon: Suggestion: Why not fly on over to Gaza and see about helping the Palestinians yourself? See if you can't talk Hamas into, oh, not launching rockets at Israel from playgrounds and the tops of apartment buildings? Feel free to report back and let us know how that went.


Me? Travel to Gaza? The Zionist version of the Warsaw Ghetto?

Thanks but no thanks.


Warsaw ghetto?

I don't recall the population growing, the standard of living increaseing, them electing a group who wanted to remove Christians from the surrounding country , them lobbing rockets into the surrounding country, but I am sure you have some good reasons to ignore all of that doesn't rest on hating Jews.
 
2012-11-21 01:31:11 PM  

Chuck Ruffcorn: Ignoring people isn't MY thing. I just think you misinterpreted what I wrote - it happens.

For the record, I do not believe Israel is blood thirsty or a nuke-monster, nor is that what I said. But, I do believe Israel is facing an enemy that wants them wiped off the face of the earth and they're smart enough to know that and smart enough to know that until their side or the other is gone it's going to be blood and semantics forever. I'm also pretty sure Israel knows that ending this fight once and for all will really only provoke other others that support the other side.


But the problem with using nukes in general, and that particular neighborhood of countries and proto-states is that radiation doesn't respect borders. Israel and the Palestinian-controlled areas are so small that to nuke, let's say Gaza City, would cause horrific damage to Israel itself. And even if Israel were to use their nukes on countries far enough away from them that radiation wouldn't be an issue (let's say Iran, for example), then you have their neighbors to worry about. Russia and China are none-too-keen on the idea of having nukes go off anywhere near them, and while Israel could take on most of the Islamic world by itself, they wouldn't survive a day against the major world powers.

On the other hand, Hamas would be pleased as punch to get a nuke, so they could sneak it into Tel Aviv. They've already made it clear that consequences don't really matter much to them at this point. So, getting back to the original point we were discussing, being MAD, it simply would not work in this particular case. One side has shown they keep nukes only as a promise that any massive attack on them would be day-glo fatal to the attacker's country, and the other side has made it clear they will use any and all weapons at their disposal to destroy Israel. So MAD simply cannot apply here, since MAD requires both sides to equally fear death.
 
2012-11-21 01:32:19 PM  

DataShade: You're missing the point. The IDF is already killing, every year, more Palestinian civilians than Hamas has ever killed Israeli citizens. They're doing it through starvation, internment, disproportionate response to protest, summary executions for violation of curfew or trespass of DMZ, and the indiscriminate use of military force in residential areas.

When Hamas launches a bunch of homemade rockets with no payload, it's not justifiable or necessary to drop 750-pound warheads on civilian homes.


Telling someone who just watched his childhood friend and his entire family get vaporized by a US-made cruise missile that blowing up a bus is unethical because it's targeting civilians is the height of condescension and idiocy.

REMEMBER, Israel's blockade of Gaza, Israel's refusal of food or medicine to civilian populations, started because Israel disliked the results of a democratic election.


Your bullshiat to word ratio is approaching unity. It's really quite impressive.
 
2012-11-21 01:35:12 PM  

cman: -1 for news flash abuse

Say whatever the fark you want about Israel, at least they are not actively targeting civilians


troll or stupid?
 
2012-11-21 01:44:24 PM  

Tatsuma: No, because Bibi is weak and a pushover, it's always what ends up happening whenever he gets a wee bit of pressure.


I hope that's the destruction of his career in politics.

Thanks for once again giving us endless war, Bibi



So, what would be your "Final Solution" to the Palestinian Problem, Tatsi?

And you're blaming Bibi's "weakness" for "Endless war"?

Better to place the blame where it belongs: On Theodor Herzl, David Ben Gurion and their Zionist Bankster backers who hatched the BRILLIANT plot of uprooting as many of the world's Jews as possible and moving them into a contrived "Homeland" built in the middle of a faking HORNET'S NEST.

And you can blame EVERY die-hard backer of the racist Zionist scheme since then.

Was this endless war and strife not predictable? Of course it was, and that is precisely why the VAST majority of Jews told the Zionists FARK YOU when they tried to con them into abandoning their homes, lives and livelihoods and moving to Palestine in during the first three decades of the 20th century.

But eventually the Racist Zionists got their way, and the Jews showed up at the gates of the "Homeland", kicking, screaming and miserable.

So there you are, perpetually surrounded by ENEMIES that you have carefully fashioned out of whole cloth, and stuck with millions of people that you hate, despise and CANNOT allow to become part of your society. A Jewish State with a majority of non-Jews would kind of destroy the whole purpose of the Zionist scheme, wouldn't it?

No, I'm afraid that you've painted yourselves into a corner - and that paint will NEVER dry.

What will you do?
 
2012-11-21 01:46:25 PM  

Tatsuma: Israeli and Egyptian sources: Ceasefire to be announced at 8



j;adsfnasdflasfd.


Which 8? Greenwich? Jerusalem time? Pacific?
 
2012-11-21 01:49:01 PM  

Amos Quito: Better to place the blame where it belongs: On Theodor Herzl, David Ben Gurion and their Zionist Bankster backers who hatched the BRILLIANT plot of uprooting as many of the world's Jews as possible and moving them into a contrived "Homeland" built in the middle of a faking HORNET'S NEST Islam.


FTFY
 
2012-11-21 02:03:26 PM  

give me doughnuts: Tatsuma: Israeli and Egyptian sources: Ceasefire to be announced at 8



j;adsfnasdflasfd.

Which 8? Greenwich? Jerusalem time? Pacific?


Hawaii. Duh.
 
2012-11-21 02:03:36 PM  

MmmmBacon: Chuck Ruffcorn: Ignoring people isn't MY thing. I just think you misinterpreted what I wrote - it happens.

For the record, I do not believe Israel is blood thirsty or a nuke-monster, nor is that what I said. But, I do believe Israel is facing an enemy that wants them wiped off the face of the earth and they're smart enough to know that and smart enough to know that until their side or the other is gone it's going to be blood and semantics forever. I'm also pretty sure Israel knows that ending this fight once and for all will really only provoke other others that support the other side.

But the problem with using nukes in general, and that particular neighborhood of countries and proto-states is that radiation doesn't respect borders. Israel and the Palestinian-controlled areas are so small that to nuke, let's say Gaza City, would cause horrific damage to Israel itself. And even if Israel were to use their nukes on countries far enough away from them that radiation wouldn't be an issue (let's say Iran, for example), then you have their neighbors to worry about. Russia and China are none-too-keen on the idea of having nukes go off anywhere near them, and while Israel could take on most of the Islamic world by itself, they wouldn't survive a day against the major world powers.

On the other hand, Hamas would be pleased as punch to get a nuke, so they could sneak it into Tel Aviv. They've already made it clear that consequences don't really matter much to them at this point. So, getting back to the original point we were discussing, being MAD, it simply would not work in this particular case. One side has shown they keep nukes only as a promise that any massive attack on them would be day-glo fatal to the attacker's country, and the other side has made it clear they will use any and all weapons at their disposal to destroy Israel. So MAD simply cannot apply here, since MAD requires both sides to equally fear death.




So, your saying Israel IS a blood thirsty nuke-monster, they just don't want to breathe the fallout?

Don't get me wrong. I think we agree: Hamas would shoot nukes if they had them, Israel has them and won't fire them because they're smarter than that. But, it is MAD because one sides intelligence is equal to to the other side's lack of fear.
 
2012-11-21 02:05:56 PM  

seadoo2006: What about the millions of Russians that died in WW2? Where is their homeland?


erm... Russia?
 
2012-11-21 02:09:29 PM  

Marine1: give me doughnuts: Tatsuma: Israeli and Egyptian sources: Ceasefire to be announced at 8



j;adsfnasdflasfd.

Which 8? Greenwich? Jerusalem time? Pacific?

Hawaii. Duh.


shiat. I'll be up all night watching the news.
 
2012-11-21 02:11:53 PM  

meep3d: The USA's constant meddling,regime changes and support of oppressive governments begat 9/11


Hmmmm, not really.

Here's the sequence of events:
Saddam got frisky and invaded Kuwait.
Saudi Arabia got justifiably concerned for their own security.
Osama bin Laden went to the Saudis and insisted, "My holy warriors will be happy to protect you!"
Saudi Arabia laughed at OBL and invited the US military to protect them instead.
OBL got butthurt and issued a fatwa against Americans and Jews for daring to pollute the Holy Peninsula with their infidel feet.
The US didn't give a shiat.
OBL started attacking US embassies in Africa.
Yet the US didn't make OBL Public Enemy #1.
OBL attacked a USN destroyer.
The US still didn't pay OBL enough attention.
OBL decided to do something really, really attention-getting.
9/11
 
2012-11-21 02:13:08 PM  

stonelotus: seadoo2006: What about the millions of Russians that died in WW2? Where is their homeland?

erm... Russia?


Yes, because the USSR was a singular ethnic block? I mean, you can see how Chechnya is right now ... why don't they get a homeland free of an overbearing oppressor?
 
2012-11-21 02:18:00 PM  

Tatsuma: If only they were peaceful, and had a Gandhi-like figure leading them, they would have had their state a long long long time ago.


Indeed. Israel has had such an inspiring set of leaders: Menachem "Stern Gang" Begin, Ariel "Sabra and Shatila" Sharon, Moshe "Rapist" Katsav and now Benjamin "Corrupt" Netanyahu.
 
2012-11-21 02:22:54 PM  
fark "israel".

well armed land thieves are still land thieving murderers.
 
2012-11-21 02:25:16 PM  

tekmo: meep3d: The USA's constant meddling,regime changes and support of oppressive governments begat 9/11

Hmmmm, not really.

Here's the sequence of events:
Saddam got frisky and invaded Kuwait.
Saudi Arabia got justifiably concerned for their own security.
Osama bin Laden went to the Saudis and insisted, "My holy warriors will be happy to protect you!"
Saudi Arabia laughed at OBL and invited the US military to protect them instead.
OBL got butthurt and issued a fatwa against Americans and Jews for daring to pollute the Holy Peninsula with their infidel feet.
The US didn't give a shiat.
OBL started attacking US embassies in Africa.
Yet the US didn't make OBL Public Enemy #1.
OBL attacked a USN destroyer.
The US still didn't pay OBL enough attention.
OBL decided to do something really, really attention-getting.
9/11


that's some pretty inaccurate, farked up bullshiat.

"saddam got frisky".

kuwait was slant drilling iraqi land using israeli/saudi technology and assistance.

fark you.
 
2012-11-21 02:27:55 PM  

Bauer: fark "israel".

well armed land thieves are still land thieving murderers.


Only if you don't pay the rent. In Uh-mare-i-cuh we call that capitalism.
 
2012-11-21 02:30:05 PM  

BattleAxe: CNN Duped By Sad Story Of Dead Palestinian Child 'Killed By Israel'?

Takeaways from this:
1) Hamas kills their own kids and blames Israel.
2) Egypt is playing along with the charade.
3) Bloggers can apparently figure this out with no problem.
4) AP and CNN are incapable of getting any story right.


That's what I wonder about the poor son of Jihad Masharawi. Some kind of projectile went into the house & killed the infant, and a couple of his relatives.

Of course, the Jews did it. I recall reading that the Jews said they weren't doing any operations in the area at the time, but it very well could have been Jew tank shells going astray. Or Arab rockets falling short.

In any case, horrible tragedy. 

/truth is always the first casualty
 
2012-11-21 02:35:49 PM  

orbister: Tatsuma: If only they were peaceful, and had a Gandhi-like figure leading them, they would have had their state a long long long time ago.

Indeed. Israel has had such an inspiring set of leaders: Menachem "Stern Gang" Begin, Ariel "Sabra and Shatila" Sharon, Moshe "Rapist" Katsav and now Benjamin "Corrupt" Netanyahu.


The minute Israel tries something along the lines of non-violent resistence, is the day Egypt, Syria, Jordan, and Iran (through Hezbollah and Hamas) all go on a killing spree.
 
2012-11-21 02:39:21 PM  


Seems apropos ...
 
2012-11-21 03:45:04 PM  

cman: Suede head: Meanwhile, well over a hundred Palestinians have been killed by Israeli bombing and shelling, including many children. Just bear that in mind before you start foaming at the mouth.

But Israel didnt target them. This was a targeted attack. Those civilian deaths, while unfortunate, were not done on purpose. Intent, man, you have to factor in intent. Some man breaks in your house at night, you shoot him dead, should you be charged with murder? Hell no. Intent


When you target a building you know has civilians in it, yes, you are targeting civilians. You have decided that it's okay for them to die, and you know they will die, in advance. People have meetings to decide just how many civilians is an acceptable number for "collateral damage" before ordering the strikes, but in NO way is it an accident.

This isn't unique to Israel either, all modern armies (very much including the US) do it. But they don't get to claim it's an accident. "Collateral damage" is sanitized enough, but it's not an accident.
 
2012-11-21 04:09:42 PM  

itazurakko: cman: Suede head: Meanwhile, well over a hundred Palestinians have been killed by Israeli bombing and shelling, including many children. Just bear that in mind before you start foaming at the mouth.

But Israel didnt target them. This was a targeted attack. Those civilian deaths, while unfortunate, were not done on purpose. Intent, man, you have to factor in intent. Some man breaks in your house at night, you shoot him dead, should you be charged with murder? Hell no. Intent

When you target a building you know has civilians in it, yes, you are targeting civilians. You have decided that it's okay for them to die, and you know they will die, in advance. People have meetings to decide just how many civilians is an acceptable number for "collateral damage" before ordering the strikes, but in NO way is it an accident.

This isn't unique to Israel either, all modern armies (very much including the US) do it. But they don't get to claim it's an accident. "Collateral damage" is sanitized enough, but it's not an accident.


finally...some degree of truth.
 
2012-11-21 04:35:07 PM  
TheOther
--snip ---

Most of my knowledge about Potsdam is from reading Churchill's wanking to get the US to fight the Soviets in Europe rather than getting the Soviets to help finish off Japan. My US education didn't particularly address this other than in a vague 'Kill Commies!'. What is your source on Suzuki's and others attitudes? Two books are still packed away.. I'll try to dig them out before the thread gets locked so I can get the titles for you.

There's also a decent BBC Documentary on the Hirosima bomb iirc aptly titled "Hiroshima" that also reviews these facts.
 
2012-11-21 04:37:10 PM  

bah I screwed up the quote tags. Here is is propperly formatted for ease of reading


TheOther
--snip ---

Most of my knowledge about Potsdam is from reading Churchill's wanking to get the US to fight the Soviets in Europe rather than getting the Soviets to help finish off Japan. My US education didn't particularly address this other than in a vague 'Kill Commies!'. What is your source on Suzuki's and others attitudes?
Two books are still packed away.. I'll try to dig them out before the thread gets locked so I can get the titles for you.

There's also a decent BBC Documentary on the Hirosima bomb iirc aptly titled "Hiroshima" that also reviews these facts/quotes/attitudes.
 
2012-11-21 04:54:39 PM  

seadoo2006: stonelotus: seadoo2006: What about the millions of Russians that died in WW2? Where is their homeland?

erm... Russia?

Yes, because the USSR was a singular ethnic block? I mean, you can see how Chechnya is right now ... why don't they get a homeland free of an overbearing oppressor?


you said Russians, not Soviets.
 
2012-11-21 04:55:02 PM  
20 missiles fired in Israel since the beginning of ceasefire; 11 year old Israeli girl injured
 
2012-11-21 05:06:38 PM  

Tatsuma: 20 missiles fired in Israel since the beginning of ceasefire; 11 year old Israeli girl injured



Let's see, Hamas doesn't have MISSILES, only rockets.

Israel HAS missiles, and Tats says that these were fired "in Israel".

That must mean that the "11 year old Israeli girl" was injured by "friendly fire"?

Anyway, congratulations on the failure of the ceasefire. I know you were dreading it.
 
2012-11-21 05:43:53 PM  
Zionism is the greatest thing, also responsible for creating the greatest country.
 
2012-11-21 05:45:07 PM  

Uncle Tractor: cman: Israel was targeting militants. They were not targeting civilians. This was an attack on civilians.

Israeli attacks kill so many civilians that it makes no difference whether they're targeting them or not.

[i560.photobucket.com image 580x450]

/no, I'm not defending hamas
//not the rockets either


i950.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-21 06:44:25 PM  

Amos Quito: Tatsuma: 20 missiles fired in Israel since the beginning of ceasefire; 11 year old Israeli girl injured


Let's see, Hamas doesn't have MISSILES, only rockets.

Israel HAS missiles, and Tats says that these were fired "in Israel".

That must mean that the "11 year old Israeli girl" was injured by "friendly fire"?

Anyway, congratulations on the failure of the ceasefire. I know you were dreading it.


Those are just fireworks celebrating the cease fire!
 
2012-11-21 06:45:09 PM  

OnlyM3: bah I screwed up the quote tags. Here is is propperly formatted for ease of reading


TheOther
--snip ---

Most of my knowledge about Potsdam is from reading Churchill's wanking to get the US to fight the Soviets in Europe rather than getting the Soviets to help finish off Japan. My US education didn't particularly address this other than in a vague 'Kill Commies!'. What is your source on Suzuki's and others attitudes? Two books are still packed away.. I'll try to dig them out before the thread gets locked so I can get the titles for you.

There's also a decent BBC Documentary on the Hirosima bomb iirc aptly titled "Hiroshima" that also reviews these facts/quotes/attitudes.


Thanks. I do appreciate you going to the trouble.
 
2012-11-21 06:53:20 PM  

DataShade: If it's a civilian area, with civilian traffic, then it's not fortified and it's not mined, you could roll right up to the goddamn building with an APC and take prisoners, interrogate your enemies, seize documents or materiel.

You know, behave like an actual military instead of a vindictive terrorist organization.


And get your APC blown to bits long before you got there.

And if it wasn't your guys would be shot when they got out of it.

DataShade: Your un-cited, description-free image from imageshack.us is sure to win over hearts and minds. Hey, why don't you ask him if he'd like to trade places with the Palestinian 13-year-old shot to death for no reason by IDF two weeks ago that prompted the rocket launch that prompted the assassination of the Hamas leader that prompted even more rocket launches.


You mean the 13 year old with the missile crew that had just shot an Israeli jeep? Why didn't he just get out of there when he saw what they were doing?? (I see three options: Darwin, human shield or he was part of it.)

seadoo2006: Aka, the Golan Heights is NOT Israel, give it back to Syria. The Gaza Strip is NOT Israel, give it back to Egypt. Go back to your own prescribed borders from 1948 and stop trying to use national security as an excuse to keep increasing the land area of your country. Every time they do so, they piss people off.


Read some history!

Golan? Syria has other demands that Israel won't agree to that scuttle this.

Gaza? Israel *TRIED* to give it back to Egypt as part of their peace deal. Egypt didn't want it.

legion_of_doo: BattleAxe: CNN Duped By Sad Story Of Dead Palestinian Child 'Killed By Israel'?

Takeaways from this:
1) Hamas kills their own kids and blames Israel.
2) Egypt is playing along with the charade.
3) Bloggers can apparently figure this out with no problem.
4) AP and CNN are incapable of getting any story right.

That's what I wonder about the poor son of Jihad Masharawi. Some kind of projectile went into the house & killed the infant, and a couple of his relatives.

Of course, the Jews did it. I recall reading that the Jews said they weren't doing any operations in the area at the time, but it very well could have been Jew tank shells going astray. Or Arab rockets falling short.


Why would there be any Israeli tank shells there? Also, damage is too small to be an Israeli bomb. It's a shortfalling rocket or a total fabrication (note how we don't actually see the face, something unusual.)
 
2012-11-21 07:56:04 PM  

itazurakko: cman: Suede head: Meanwhile, well over a hundred Palestinians have been killed by Israeli bombing and shelling, including many children. Just bear that in mind before you start foaming at the mouth.

But Israel didnt target them. This was a targeted attack. Those civilian deaths, while unfortunate, were not done on purpose. Intent, man, you have to factor in intent. Some man breaks in your house at night, you shoot him dead, should you be charged with murder? Hell no. Intent

When you target a building you know has civilians in it, yes, you are targeting civilians. You have decided that it's okay for them to die, and you know they will die, in advance. People have meetings to decide just how many civilians is an acceptable number for "collateral damage" before ordering the strikes, but in NO way is it an accident.

This isn't unique to Israel either, all modern armies (very much including the US) do it. But they don't get to claim it's an accident. "Collateral damage" is sanitized enough, but it's not an accident.


Nobody is saying it is an accident. Hamas wants it.
 
2012-11-21 08:01:13 PM  
She was begging for it.

Dressed like that.
 
2012-11-21 09:28:08 PM  

give me doughnuts: Your bullshiat to word ratio is approaching unity. It's really quite impressive.


Awww, did widdums feelings get hurt? It sucks to get all your "facts" about life from TV news, huh? Really hurts when you run into someone who knows what some portion of the rest of the world thinks and it turns out you can't even begin to compete.
 
2012-11-21 09:38:47 PM  

Chuck Ruffcorn: So, your saying Israel IS a blood thirsty nuke-monster, they just don't want to breathe the fallout?

Don't get me wrong. I think we agree: Hamas would shoot nukes if they had them, Israel has them and won't fire them because they're smarter than that. But, it is MAD because one sides intelligence is equal to to the other side's lack of fear.


Maybe something like MAD, but not truly MAD. I don't think Israel has any intention to use their nukes unless they are under imminent threat of absolute destruction (for example, if Iran ever explodes a nuke and states the next one is for Jerusalem), so no - not a nuke-happy monster. Just using the Big Stick approach to shield itself from absolute destruction.
 
2012-11-21 09:45:56 PM  

Loren: And get your APC blown to bits long before you got there.

And if it wasn't your guys would be shot when they got out of it.


It's strange, despite all the civilian casualties we incurred in Iraq, we never had to cruise-missile a residential neighborhood, not even in the "insurgent stronghold" cities. Israel's basically had Gaza under siege for five years - they're using a minimum calorie count to keep the population weak, they're denying medicine and consumer goods, they've even blocked communications ... and yet, according to you and the other chickenhawks, the Hamas fighters are still so damned powerful, coordinated, and dangerous that we have to nuke the site from orbit to be safe.

The IDF must be the weakest, most poorly-trained piece of shiat army on life, OR they must be entirely indifferent to the notion of hundreds of civilian casualties. It's one or the other: shiatty soldiers or war criminals.



You mean the 13 year old with the missile crew that had just shot an Israeli jeep? Why didn't he just get out of there when he saw what they were doing?? (I see three options: Darwin, human shield or he was part of it.)

I mean the 13-year-old who was playing soccer nearby when an IDF soldier was too busy shooting 'terrorists' to check fire. But hey, I'm sure it's more comforting to accept the explanation "well, if he got shot he *obviously* was involved somehow" than to accept that your tax dollars are funding a military that indiscriminately kills children rather than, you know, exercise restraint.



Gaza? Israel *TRIED* to give it back to Egypt as part of their peace deal. Egypt didn't want it.

You're either retarded or trolling. If Israel was willing to give it away, why did they put it under an armed blockade when the Palestinians moved to solidify control? Could it be that they were only willing to give it to Egypt because, since the 80s at least, Egypt was second among Middle-Eastern nations in terms of the amount of US money, aid, and influence it accepted, and Egypt had (since the 80s, at least), a history of violent suppression of upstart groups (those demanding religious freedom or democratic elections, for example) and could thus be counted on to follow US policy or suppress any Palestinian movements?

if Israel literally didn't want Gaza they could have named it the Palestinian state, but that would have required recognizing Palestinian sovereignty and might have forced them to stop putting Palestinian refugees into concentration camps.


I *linked* to news articles and eyewitness-accounts about this stuff in one of my Boobiess in this thread. I understand there's been a lot of action here so it's hard to read everything, but it'd be sweet if bombastic assholes whose only middle-eastern education comes from the Washington Journal and TV news would take just a few minutes to make sure the things "everyone knows" aren't in the same category as "the earth is flat."
 
2012-11-21 09:53:42 PM  

inner ted: cman: -1 for news flash abuse

Say whatever the fark you want about Israel, at least they are not actively targeting civilians

troll or stupid?


I'm guessing both. He's displaying perfect awareness of what I think of as the aggregate US media opinion, so I'm confident he thinks of himself as a well-rounded scholar because he reads the NYTimes *and* the Washington Journal and gets *both sides* of every issue (ignoring the notion that, say, people outside the US might have a relevant opinion on the struggle between a marginalized Arab group and middle-eastern Jews in the territory of the state of Israel).

So he quite likely thinks he's issuing brilliant commentary that will stymie his ignorant opponents and drive them into paroxysms of fury... when, in reality, he's an idiot who's parroting the dumbest journalists on earth.
 
2012-11-21 10:58:10 PM  

DataShade: inner ted: cman: -1 for news flash abuse

Say whatever the fark you want about Israel, at least they are not actively targeting civilians

troll or stupid?

I'm guessing both. He's displaying perfect awareness of what I think of as the aggregate US media opinion, so I'm confident he thinks of himself as a well-rounded scholar because he reads the NYTimes *and* the Washington Journal and gets *both sides* of every issue (ignoring the notion that, say, people outside the US might have a relevant opinion on the struggle between a marginalized Arab group and middle-eastern Jews in the territory of the state of Israel).

So he quite likely thinks he's issuing brilliant commentary that will stymie his ignorant opponents and drive them into paroxysms of fury... when, in reality, he's an idiot who's parroting the dumbest journalists on earth.


indeed.
 
2012-11-21 11:47:38 PM  

MmmmBacon: You'll know shiat is about to hit the fan when Hillary Clinton and the UN Secretary-General are suddenly called back to Washington/New York respectively.


it's called Thanksgiving my friend
 
2012-11-21 11:52:42 PM  

yousaywut: AverageAmericanGuy: I imagine that when the aliens come and take over the planet, it will look kind of like the Israelis vs the Palestinian wars.

yep pretty much. then it will just suck to be human instead of a specific group.


nope it will be much worst.. at least Israelis have somewhat use restraint in their attacks. Imagine if HAMAS are the ones with the much superior weaponry... that's a more likely comparison with alien invasion.
 
2012-11-21 11:59:56 PM  
Actually if current trend continues Israel as we know it today will cease to exist. The Palestinians/Arabs have the most effective weapon of all.. and it doesn't even involve a single bullet or rocket. It's call birthrate. They are breeding like crazy while the jews have a pretty much stagnated birthrate. The only 'jews' who are breeding in any numbers of significance are the real orthodox type jews and as a group they are pretty much useless when it comes to Israeli security, politics or contributing to economic vitality of the state.
 
2012-11-22 02:15:48 AM  

SuperNinjaToad: Actually if current trend continues Israel as we know it today will cease to exist. The Palestinians/Arabs have the most effective weapon of all.. and it doesn't even involve a single bullet or rocket. It's call birthrate. They are breeding like crazy while the jews have a pretty much stagnated birthrate. The only 'jews' who are breeding in any numbers of significance are the real orthodox type jews and as a group they are pretty much useless when it comes to Israeli security, politics or contributing to economic vitality of the state.


i agree.

it's always about the numbers.

there will be peace, eventually.
 
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