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(Jerusalem Post) NewsFlash Bus explodes in central Tel Aviv, at least 10 injured   (jpost.com) divider line 405
    More: NewsFlash, Tel Aviv, Ramat Gan  
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3741 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Nov 2012 at 5:50 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-11-21 06:16:50 AM

Summoner101: meep3d: So when terrorists attack normal western countries (USA, UK, Spain, etc.), despite legitimate grievances it is never viewed as acceptable resistance, yet when the Palestinians do it (daily for years and years) it's somehow acceptable?

Aside from Native Americans and possibly the IRA, are there that many apples to apples comparisons for Palestinian relations with the West?


Yes, it's just a matter of distance. The USA's constant meddling,regime changes and support of oppressive governments begat 9/11 yet nobody claims it is justifiable 'resistance', despite the group responsible claiming to have a legitimate reason.

Attacking civilians indiscriminately is never acceptable, yet the Palestinians have done so tens of thousands of times.
 
2012-11-21 06:17:21 AM
cman:

Israel has sent military into Gaza in the past and it didnt start WWIII

As I said, I really hope you're right...
 
2012-11-21 06:17:40 AM

cman: -1 for news flash abuse

Say whatever the fark you want about Israel, at least they are not actively targeting civilians



"Actively" is such a stupid, meaningless distinction in this case, because the only way you can "not actively target civilians" when you launch missiles at a city is if you literally refuse to even acknowledge that other races have civilians.
 
2012-11-21 06:20:16 AM

DataShade: cman: -1 for news flash abuse

Say whatever the fark you want about Israel, at least they are not actively targeting civilians


"Actively" is such a stupid, meaningless distinction in this case, because the only way you can "not actively target civilians" when you launch missiles at a city is if you literally refuse to even acknowledge that other races have civilians.


Well, if you could point out where the Hamas militant bases that are outside civilian zones I am sure Israel would use your intel.
 
2012-11-21 06:20:22 AM

cman: GungFu: cman: Suede head: Meanwhile, well over a hundred Palestinians have been killed by Israeli bombing and shelling, including many children. Just bear that in mind before you start foaming at the mouth.

But Israel didnt target them. This was a targeted attack. Those civilian deaths, while unfortunate, were not done on purpose. Intent, man, you have to factor in intent. Some man breaks in your house at night, you shoot him dead, should you be charged with murder? Hell no. Intent


'while unfortunate....'
'While unfortunate, were not done on purpose...'

Nah, not getting it.

The bus was the target, dipshiat! It's just unfortunate some Jews were inside it. Stupid Jews.

Israel was targeting militants. They were not targeting civilians. This was an attack on civilians.



Knowing the possibility that Israel missiles aren't clever enough to really target individuals, despite what some Internet Expert believe, missiles were fired HOPING it would find its supposed target and well, if other people got killed, tough shiat, it's not like we can control something like a freakin' missile, can we?

I still say they targeted the bus. Who the fark likes buses?
 
2012-11-21 06:20:29 AM
I'm slightly confused though. Only injuries? What sort of attack was this, exactly? Some sort of IED they left on the bus and detonated remotely? Or a suicide bombing?
 
2012-11-21 06:20:42 AM

Phoenix_M: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 634x654]


How I wish. Too bad we won't see that in my lifetime.
 
2012-11-21 06:20:48 AM

BalugaJoe: I am tired of these gazans.


take chstfr yhenn
 
2012-11-21 06:21:19 AM
Feh let em go at it.. It will eventually work itself out.. Tired of it. Israel is always throwing shiat and expecting us to back them up. I think we should just let them do what they want... The Christian interest is RIDICULOUS.
 
2012-11-21 06:22:23 AM

Ted Kennedy's Brain Tumor: I'm slightly confused though. Only injuries? What sort of attack was this, exactly? Some sort of IED they left on the bus and detonated remotely? Or a suicide bombing?


Latest Israeli news is reporting that someone got on the bus, walked towards the back, set a package down, and then got off the bus.

/ American Israeli in Tel Aviv, currently staying in Jerusalem
 
2012-11-21 06:23:12 AM
Oh, and police are also reportedly looking for two people in the metropolitan area walking around with explosives as well.
 
2012-11-21 06:24:18 AM

bostonguy: Oh, and police are also reportedly looking for two people in the metropolitan area walking around with explosives as well.


Now this is how you do terrorism.

I'd love to see how the TSA would handle something like this.
 
2012-11-21 06:24:18 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: cman: -1 for news flash abuse

Say whatever the fark you want about Israel, at least they are not actively targeting civilians

It's Okay as Long as Israelis do it, because Israelis classify everyone as enemies, right?
Little kid down the street with the mean mug? The enemy.
Little old lady who's been moved from her home several times to make room for more Israeli settlers who have no ties to the region except they're members of the ruling theocracy? Collaborator human shield


That unarmed USN ship flying a US flag and just listening to what was going on? Target practice.
 
2012-11-21 06:24:47 AM

meep3d: So when terrorists attack normal western countries (USA, UK, Spain, etc.), despite legitimate grievances it is never viewed as acceptable resistance, yet when the Palestinians do it (daily for years and years) it's somehow acceptable?


It is "funny" how the deep, systemic hate for the jews permeates most of the world.
The problem with "legitimate grievances" is that in the end, all countries exist on the backs of the original inhabitants. Such to be on the losing side of a war. You typically lose your land and rights.

While we might want to live in a world where that is true, the reality is that that is what we got.
What percentage of Amerikans are willing to give the US back to the natives?
Why not? We stole it from them.

And yet, people continue to make the argument that "THIS IS DIFFERENT".
Sure, it is different because it is happening today and it is the EVIL JEWS doing it.

Counter position, how many countries which are current controled by muslims, would like their country back and the muslims gone? Malaysia? Indonesia?

How are these different? Other than they happened 7-800 years ago?
Are only new land grabs bad? Really?
Are we only going to "right" recent wrongs?

What about the kurds? They should get a homeland and be free of turkey,iraq, iran, what not. Right?
They are the largest ethnic group without a homeland. Why are we concerned about such a small number of people in Gaza?

Oh wait, the evil jews again.
NVM
 
2012-11-21 06:25:55 AM

cman: Summoner101: Bathia_Mapes: cman: -1 for news flash abuse

Say whatever the fark you want about Israel, at least they are not actively targeting civilians

How is a terrorist attack news flash abuse?

Is a bombing in the Middle East, much less Israel, really news anymore?

Exactly.

This thing happens daily. If the International Space Station blew up, that is a good use of a newsflash. If Mount St Hellen erupts, that is a good use of a newsflash. If a gunman opens up at the Capital Building, that is a newsflash. Daily events, not so much.


Then turn off the feature. {NEWSFLASH} you are biatching about something you could fix in 11 seconds.
 
2012-11-21 06:26:24 AM

Ted Kennedy's Brain Tumor: I'm slightly confused though. Only injuries? What sort of attack was this, exactly? Some sort of IED they left on the bus and detonated remotely? Or a suicide bombing?


they said it wasnt a suicide bomb. ied or timer. and was clearly a POS bomb.
Credit to the Israelis and their wonderful WALL for keeping the suicide bombers out of their country.
 
2012-11-21 06:26:26 AM

cman: They were not targeting civilians. This was an attack on civilians.


Aren't all Israeli citizens required to serve at least one year in the IDF? Aren't all Israelis thus soldiers, former soldiers, or future soldiers?

Are we just going to call anyone who isn't holding a live weapon *right now* a civilian?
 
2012-11-21 06:26:52 AM
By the way, that jeep hit with the ATGM... holy Christ, I'm amazed anyone survived. Any update on those poor fellows?
 
2012-11-21 06:28:14 AM

namatad: meep3d: So when terrorists attack normal western countries (USA, UK, Spain, etc.), despite legitimate grievances it is never viewed as acceptable resistance, yet when the Palestinians do it (daily for years and years) it's somehow acceptable?

It is "funny" how the deep, systemic hate for the jews permeates most of the world.
The problem with "legitimate grievances" is that in the end, all countries exist on the backs of the original inhabitants. Such to be on the losing side of a war. You typically lose your land and rights.

While we might want to live in a world where that is true, the reality is that that is what we got.
What percentage of Amerikans are willing to give the US back to the natives?
Why not? We stole it from them.

And yet, people continue to make the argument that "THIS IS DIFFERENT".
Sure, it is different because it is happening today and it is the EVIL JEWS doing it.

Counter position, how many countries which are current controled by muslims, would like their country back and the muslims gone? Malaysia? Indonesia?

How are these different? Other than they happened 7-800 years ago?
Are only new land grabs bad? Really?
Are we only going to "right" recent wrongs?

What about the kurds? They should get a homeland and be free of turkey,iraq, iran, what not. Right?
They are the largest ethnic group without a homeland. Why are we concerned about such a small number of people in Gaza?

Oh wait, the evil jews again.
NVM


I think it probably has more to do with failing to give the Palestinians true citizenship and power within the country they are rapidly becoming the majority in and instead sticking them all into a tiny sliver of land from which they have no possible escape.

Nah, it must just be that people hate the evil Jews.
 
2012-11-21 06:29:36 AM
From Al Jazeera:


Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum said the bus explosion in Tel Aviv "is a natural result for the Israeli aggression" in Gaza.

"Israeli, by killing the Palestinian civilians, wanted these consequences and this is what we have warned from," Barhoum said. "If the Israel continues its aggression then all the optioned are opened. "
 
2012-11-21 06:31:22 AM
From another thread supporting isreal without being racist.



1 Don't use any kind of slur. This should be an absolute no-brainer. If you ever feel the need to call anyone a slur, shut the fark up immediately and go jump in the nearest lake.
Don't call Palestinians "animals" or "savages." This is a dehumanizing tactic, used to justify or diminish attacks against Palestinians on grounds that they aren't really human and don't require the same consideration as people like us. This is racist. Always. In every context.

2 Don't claim Palestinians don't really love their children or don't really value human life. Another dehumanizing tactic is to point to "unnatural" behavior on the part of the targeted group as proof that they are less human.Don't do it. The fact that anyone can repeat this claim even after the front page pictures of Jihad Masharawi carrying his son Omar just boggles my mind.

3 Don't claim Palestinian children are "taught to hate" or somehow less innocent than other children. Another dehumanizing tactic, and a particularly disgusting one, as it's typically used to downplay the deaths of Palestinian children. If you feel the need to say that the deaths of certain children aren't really 44as sad as others, ever, you need to walk away from the discussion at hand.

4 Don't say "Muslim" when you mean Palestinian. I see this a lot. Palestinians are mostly Muslim, but there are plenty of Palestinian Christians, too, as well as other groups. (There were even Palestinian Jews, whose communities predated British control of the area, although needless to say they are now Israelis rather than Palestinians in the current sense.) Not all Palestinians are Muslim, and not all Muslims are Palestinian. They aren't interchangeable terms.

5 Don't say "Arab" when you mean Palestinian. Arab is a wider term, encompassing an entire ethnic group and bloc of countries. Palestinians are a distinct group within the Pan-Arab world, with their own unique culture, customs, and Arabic dialect. Use the appropriate term in the appropriate context, rather than making blanket statements about wider groups than you intend.

6 Don't claim Islam is inherently violent and evil. People who believe this are comparing Islam as practiced in poverty-stricken areas to Christianity or Judaism as practiced in affluent areas. See the problem there? People who are poor and oppressed, on the whole, engage in more violence and subscribe to more extremist forms of religions-regardless of what religions they practice, because the real problem isn't the religion, it's the poverty and oppression.Attacking an entire religion in this way is not only based on apples-to-oranges nonsense, but tinged with racism as well. (Before you protest that last assertion, look up just how many of the Islamic practices people freak out about are also practiced by Jews, then see if you can still come up with a reason for attacking only Islam that doesn't rest on the fact that the stereotypical Jew is white-passing but the stereotypical Muslim is not.)

7 Don't say or imply that all Palestinians are terrorists or support terrorists. It's not true, and it smacks of dehumanizing ("we don't need to treat them with the same consideration we give people like us because they're inherently evil and violent"). I'm betting many of you would rather not be judged by some of the actions of your current government, so don't do the same thing to others.

8 Don't use any variant of the "we made the desert bloom" trope. This is basically the same racist argument European settlers in the Americas used-claiming they deserved the land because they made better use of it than the people whose land it originally was. In fact, Palestinians were farming, tending orchards, and raising livestock on the land well before Israel existed. Even if they weren't, "I took it because I could make better use of it" wouldn't get you off a theft charge in court, so why is it relevant here?

9 Don't use any variant of the "a land without a people for a people without a land" trope. See the previous point. There were most definitely people on the land before Israel. To deny that is to erase the existence of Palestinians and their history. Erasure of a culture is never okay.

10 Don't claim there is "no such thing" as Palestine or Palestinians. This also applies to people who put Palestine and Palestinian in quotation marks. Quibbling with the terms people choose to describe themselves and their culture is another form of erasure. Palestinians obviously exist. You don't have the right to decide what they can and can't call themselves.

11 Don't say Palestinians have no historical connection to the land or should go back to "their real countries." Again, Palestinians lived in the land that is now Israel and the Palestinian territories well before Israel existed. That IS their country. Once again, the words Palestinian and Arab are not interchangeable. Just because Palestinians are Arab doesn't mean they have the same culture and history as Arabs in other countries, any more than being a white American gives someone the same culture and history as white Europeans.

12 Don'tcall Palestinians "Amalek" or cite Torah/Bible verses calling for the extermination of non-Jewish groups in Canaan. Calling for genocide isn't remotely farking acceptable, ever, and couching it in religion doesn't make it any more so. I can't believe I even have to say this. STOP.

13 Don't visually depict Palestinians using Arab racial stereotypes. Don't sexualize or exoticize Palestinian women.

14 Don't portray Palestinian men as leering, claw-fingered, keffiyah-and-robe-wearing, hook-nosed villains with bombs strapped to their chests. Avoid using camels, tents, or polygamy imagery.

15 Don't demand that Palestinians or their allies take public note of Israeli casualties, affirm Israel's right to exist, or publicly repudiate Hamas.People who make this demand are assuming that Palestinians are terrible people or undeserving of being heard out unless they "prove" themselves acceptable by Zionists' standards.

16 Don't blow off Palestinians, Arabs, Muslims if they tell you what you are saying is racist or Islamophobic. Not all pro-Israel speech is racist, but some undeniably is. Actually give the accusation your consideration and hear the accuser out. If they fail to convince you, that's fine. But at least hear them out (without talking over them) before you decide that.
 
2012-11-21 06:33:11 AM

namatad: What about the kurds? They should get a homeland and be free of turkey,iraq, iran, what not. Right?
They are the largest ethnic group without a homeland. Why are we concerned about such a small number of people in Gaza?

Oh wait, the evil jews again.
NVM


The Kurds have the unfortunate reality of existing as either a significant minority or outright plurality within the borders of several different nations; in so doing, they've created a mutual, vested interest in several of the region's major powers (Iran, Turkey, Syria and formerly Iraq) of keeping them stateless and disenfranchised. Palestinians have certainly been suppressed by their Arab brethren (see Black October, al Assad's father slaughter of the Muslim Brotherhood) but they also serve a useful purpose to most of the region's governments: a source of distraction. They're the reverse of the Kurds, whereby everyone wants to use them a proxy rather than fearing to do so.
 
2012-11-21 06:33:25 AM

Uchiha_Cycliste: From another thread supporting isreal without being racist.


Spoilsport
 
2012-11-21 06:35:04 AM

cman: Suede head: Meanwhile, well over a hundred Palestinians have been killed by Israeli bombing and shelling, including many children. Just bear that in mind before you start foaming at the mouth.

But Israel didnt target them. This was a targeted attack. Those civilian deaths, while unfortunate, were not done on purpose. Intent, man, you have to factor in intent. Some man breaks in your house at night, you shoot him dead, should you be charged with murder? Hell no. Intent


So... when the Israelis kicked people out of their own homes/country, they have the right to fight back? Got it.
 
2012-11-21 06:35:49 AM
Lighten up people!

Leave Otto alone!


simpsonspedia.net
 
2012-11-21 06:38:39 AM

INeedAName: cman: Suede head: Meanwhile, well over a hundred Palestinians have been killed by Israeli bombing and shelling, including many children. Just bear that in mind before you start foaming at the mouth.

But Israel didnt target them. This was a targeted attack. Those civilian deaths, while unfortunate, were not done on purpose. Intent, man, you have to factor in intent. Some man breaks in your house at night, you shoot him dead, should you be charged with murder? Hell no. Intent

So... when the Israelis kicked people out of their own homes/country, they have the right to fight back? Got it.


Gotta give you props on your wit.
 
2012-11-21 06:38:40 AM

namatad: Why not? We stole it from them.


and the Mexicans
 
2012-11-21 06:39:14 AM
Fark religion.
 
2012-11-21 06:40:19 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Uchiha_Cycliste: From another thread supporting isreal without being racist.

Spoilsport


don't worry, hardly anyone will change their behavior =( especially not the rabble-rousers. I just want the contingent of FARk that has a brain AND uses it to mule over those ideas.
 
2012-11-21 06:41:01 AM
narwhaler.com
 
2012-11-21 06:41:26 AM

Uchiha_Cycliste: Palestinians lived in the land that is now Israel and the Palestinian territories well before Israel existed. That IS their country.


Except that Jews live on that land before it was "their" land.
But go ahead and pretend that the land hasnt changed hands a billion times over the last 20,000 years.
If you are going to pick an arbitrary date to define the "legitimate" owners of the land, dont expect others to not pick another date.

There is no objective way to decide what date to pick. One date favors one group, another date favors the other.

1) Give the land back to the Romans!!
2) Give the land back to the Brits!!

Both of those solutions are equally rational to giving the land to the jews or the palestinians.
So now you have 4 different claims which could be argued.

Unless you are going to go with who was there "longest."
Because once you go there, an acceptable response is "who is there now" has more rights than longest.
 
2012-11-21 06:41:31 AM

Uchiha_Cycliste: 15 Don't demand that Palestinians or their allies take public note of Israeli casualties, affirm Israel's right to exist


I sort of think that believing the other party exists is the first step in successful arbitration.
 
2012-11-21 06:41:41 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: namatad: meep3d: So when terrorists attack normal western countries (USA, UK, Spain, etc.), despite legitimate grievances it is never viewed as acceptable resistance, yet when the Palestinians do it (daily for years and years) it's somehow acceptable?

It is "funny" how the deep, systemic hate for the jews permeates most of the world.
The problem with "legitimate grievances" is that in the end, all countries exist on the backs of the original inhabitants. Such to be on the losing side of a war. You typically lose your land and rights.

While we might want to live in a world where that is true, the reality is that that is what we got.
What percentage of Amerikans are willing to give the US back to the natives?
Why not? We stole it from them.

And yet, people continue to make the argument that "THIS IS DIFFERENT".
Sure, it is different because it is happening today and it is the EVIL JEWS doing it.

Counter position, how many countries which are current controled by muslims, would like their country back and the muslims gone? Malaysia? Indonesia?

How are these different? Other than they happened 7-800 years ago?
Are only new land grabs bad? Really?
Are we only going to "right" recent wrongs?

What about the kurds? They should get a homeland and be free of turkey,iraq, iran, what not. Right?
They are the largest ethnic group without a homeland. Why are we concerned about such a small number of people in Gaza?

Oh wait, the evil jews again.
NVM

I think it probably has more to do with failing to give the Palestinians true citizenship and power within the country they are rapidly becoming the majority in and instead sticking them all into a tiny sliver of land from which they have no possible escape.

Nah, it must just be that people hate the evil Jews.


The Palestinians had a country until they tried to have a revolution inside that country. If I were Israeli leadership I believe I would have to demonstrate what actual ethnic cleansing looks like in Gaza then ask WB if they are ready to sign a treaty. The world would whine for a bit but the world whines a bit whenefer Israel gets fed up with constant attacks and does anything to stop it so they might as well take the hit all at once and be done with it. Or we can continue on this merry go round of death ad infinitum.
 
2012-11-21 06:42:38 AM
How the fark did I get into this thread
 
2012-11-21 06:43:38 AM
OY!
 
2012-11-21 06:44:50 AM

namatad: Uchiha_Cycliste: Palestinians lived in the land that is now Israel and the Palestinian territories well before Israel existed. That IS their country.

Except that Jews live on that land before it was "their" land.
But go ahead and pretend that the land hasnt changed hands a billion times over the last 20,000 years.
If you are going to pick an arbitrary date to define the "legitimate" owners of the land, dont expect others to not pick another date.

There is no objective way to decide what date to pick. One date favors one group, another date favors the other.

1) Give the land back to the Romans!!
2) Give the land back to the Brits!!

Both of those solutions are equally rational to giving the land to the jews or the palestinians.
So now you have 4 different claims which could be argued.

Unless you are going to go with who was there "longest."
Because once you go there, an acceptable response is "who is there now" has more rights than longest.


I wont be happy until the Canaanites have their land back and the walls of Jericho are rebuilt by those damn Jews
 
2012-11-21 06:44:56 AM

INeedAName:
So... when the Israelis kicked people out of their own homes/country, they have the right to fight back? Got it.


Yes they do have the right to fight back. However indiscriminate attacks on civilians is not 'fighting back'. Attack the army, attack the settlers, attack the people responsible, encourage sanctions, pursue legal actions, etc, etc would all be at least valid.

Currently Hamas' approach is the worst one possible for both peace and the Palestinians.

Bear in mind the bodycount would be zero on both sides if it were not for the rocket attacks.
 
2012-11-21 06:45:26 AM

cman: Israel was targeting militants. They were not targeting civilians. This was an attack on civilians.


Israeli attacks kill so many civilians that it makes no difference whether they're targeting them or not.

i560.photobucket.com

/no, I'm not defending hamas
//not the rockets either
 
2012-11-21 06:47:01 AM

cman: namatad: Uchiha_Cycliste: Palestinians lived in the land that is now Israel and the Palestinian territories well before Israel existed. That IS their country.

Except that Jews live on that land before it was "their" land.
But go ahead and pretend that the land hasnt changed hands a billion times over the last 20,000 years.
If you are going to pick an arbitrary date to define the "legitimate" owners of the land, dont expect others to not pick another date.

There is no objective way to decide what date to pick. One date favors one group, another date favors the other.

1) Give the land back to the Romans!!
2) Give the land back to the Brits!!

Both of those solutions are equally rational to giving the land to the jews or the palestinians.
So now you have 4 different claims which could be argued.

Unless you are going to go with who was there "longest."
Because once you go there, an acceptable response is "who is there now" has more rights than longest.

I wont be happy until the Canaanites have their land back and the walls of Jericho are rebuilt by those damn Jews


No can haz. Canaantes were wiped out so that sucks for them. But it was definitely genocide which is what that actually looks like. None left.
 
2012-11-21 06:47:31 AM

meep3d: Bear in mind the bodycount would be zero on both sides if it were not for the rocket attacks. Zionism


You can read about 19th century colonization all day long, here you can see it in action.
 
2012-11-21 06:47:56 AM

Uncle Tractor: cman: Israel was targeting militants. They were not targeting civilians. This was an attack on civilians.

Israeli attacks kill so many civilians that it makes no difference whether they're targeting them or not.

[i560.photobucket.com image 580x450]

/no, I'm not defending hamas
//not the rockets either


Just because ones side has shiatty weapons does not negate the fact that they are using weapons
 
2012-11-21 06:49:14 AM

Uncle Tractor: cman: Israel was targeting militants. They were not targeting civilians. This was an attack on civilians.

Israeli attacks kill so many civilians that it makes no difference whether they're targeting them or not.

[i560.photobucket.com image 580x450]

/no, I'm not defending hamas
//not the rockets either


Sucking at war doesn't forgive intent.
 
2012-11-21 06:50:14 AM
I imagine that when the aliens come and take over the planet, it will look kind of like the Israelis vs the Palestinian wars.
 
2012-11-21 06:51:07 AM

meep3d: Currently Hamas' approach is the worst one possible for both peace and the Palestinians.


I don't think Hamas wants peace. I think Hamas wants another Cast Lead. They trolled Israel with those stupid rockets and now it looks like they're getting exactly what they want; Israel going apeshiat on Gaza while the world watches. The palestinian civilians, as always, are the real victims.
 
2012-11-21 06:51:26 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: I imagine that when the aliens come and take over the planet, it will look kind of like the Israelis vs the Palestinian wars.


yep pretty much. then it will just suck to be human instead of a specific group.
 
2012-11-21 06:52:08 AM

Ted Kennedy's Brain Tumor: They're the reverse of the Kurds, whereby everyone wants to use them a proxy rather than fearing to do so.


Yup. Everyone is using them. The other arab-muslim nations LOVE them as a focus of the radical hatred.
The Israelis LOVE them as a focus keeping the orthodox and moderate jews attention on the common enemy.
Anti-semites LOVE them as a focus for WHY it is ok to still hate the jews.
and on and on and on
 
2012-11-21 06:52:12 AM

DarnoKonrad: meep3d: Bear in mind the bodycount would be zero on both sides if it were not for the rocket attacks. Zionism

You can read about 19th century colonization all day long, here you can see it in action.


What's your solution then, something that would be acceptable to both sides and actually realistic to implement? Or short term, what should Israel do about the constant rain of rockets? As I pointed out earlier with the example of the 2005 Gaza withdrawal unilateral land concessions don't appear to work.
 
2012-11-21 06:52:32 AM

Uncle Tractor: meep3d: Currently Hamas' approach is the worst one possible for both peace and the Palestinians.

I don't think Hamas wants peace. I think Hamas wants another Cast Lead. They trolled Israel with those stupid rockets and now it looks like they're getting exactly what they want; Israel going apeshiat on Gaza while the world watches. The palestinian civilians, as always, are the real victims.


Hamas wants Israel gone. Its in their charter. They dont want one Jew left there.
 
2012-11-21 06:56:28 AM

meep3d: Yes they do have the right to fight back. However indiscriminate attacks on civilians is not 'fighting back'. Attack the army, attack the settlers, attack the people responsible, encourage sanctions, pursue legal actions, etc, etc would all be at least valid.


In the end, war is war and innocent people are going to die. It is not like Hamas is a signatory of the Geneva Conventions and it isnt like EVERYONE who did sign hasnt broken those conventions when it suited their needs.

In the end, no matter how much we would like civilized wars, wars will always be hell.

Attacking those other targets will never help hama meet their needs. They need the average israeli to want to stop the violence. attacking the army is too far from home. Only by bringing the fight home can they get the impact they want.

not that it has worked at all ... LOL
 
2012-11-21 06:56:30 AM

meep3d: What's your solution then, something that would be acceptable to both sides and actually realistic to implement? Or short term, what should Israel do about the constant rain of rockets? As I pointed out earlier with the example of the 2005 Gaza withdrawal unilateral land concessions don't appear to work.


What I post in all these threads these days:

From the israeli side:
1: Officially declare Gaza and the WB part of Israel.
2: Give everybody who lives there (arab and jew) full rights as israeli citizens.

From the palestinian side:
1: Give up the notion of a palestinian state. Not gonna happen.
2: As de facto israeli citizens, demand the right to vote and run for office in israeli elections.

No, it won't immediately become a land of milk and honey, but it's pretty much inevitable at this point. The two-state solution is dead and the status quo won't last much longer.
 
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