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(Slate)   Why British singers sound American. Is it something related to why people don't stutter when they sing?   (slate.com) divider line 162
    More: Interesting, African-Americans, Beatles, singing voice, dialects, james bond movies, African American Vernacular English, country music, singers sound  
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12849 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Nov 2012 at 3:23 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-20 09:38:15 PM
In Maine, we order "pizzer and beah."
 
2012-11-20 10:58:52 PM
Because they don't want to sound like foppish twits for once?
 
2012-11-20 11:03:17 PM
Wot, wot??

img41.imageshack.us
 
2012-11-20 11:19:54 PM
 
2012-11-21 12:08:19 AM
Because they're trying to sound black. Like Elvis did. That's the sound rock requires.
 
2012-11-21 12:17:29 AM
i.telegraph.co.uk

Your argument is invalid.
 
2012-11-21 12:32:59 AM

RedPhoenix122: [i.telegraph.co.uk image 620x388]

Your argument is invalid.


upload.wikimedia.org

Ditto
 
2012-11-21 01:01:28 AM
www.chartattack.com

Your argument is invalid.
 
2012-11-21 01:08:04 AM
Not just british. Basically everyone who sings in the english language sounds american when they sing. Anything else just sounds weird these days.

To counterpoint, here's some hip hop sung with an Aussie accent. As much as I enjoy it, I imagine most of you will be turned off just by the novelty of it (to say nothing about the tonality of the aussie accent to begin with...)
 
2012-11-21 01:17:01 AM
Who cares as long as you sing. Loudly

/Loud enough to frighten the cats and annoy the neighbors
//life is short
///and you might be good at it
//singing, I mean
/depreciating slashies
 
2012-11-21 01:40:08 AM
 
2012-11-21 01:54:32 AM
news.twentyfourbit.com

Not able to be understood in any accent.
 
2012-11-21 03:26:22 AM
Meanwhile, why do so many American punk singers sound British?
 
2012-11-21 03:29:19 AM
Dana Carvey talked about this years ago.

Link
 
2012-11-21 03:31:34 AM
I used to think the same thing until I had lived in both countries for an extended time. Now, I can hear a British singer coming from a mile away.
 
2012-11-21 03:32:30 AM
I never understood why people say that. When I was a kid I always thought everyone sang with an English accent. The Rs were softened, the way a British person leaves the R off the end of words. The Beatles were from England and every rock band that came after was inspired by them.

Of course in the last 15 or 20 years it's gone the opposite way, mostly thanks to Kurt Cobain. He wasn't really too bad about it but everyone imitating him has overdone it. Pronouncing everything with an ARRRRRrrr makes you sound angry or emotional or something I guess. Hell, even Taylor Swift does it.
 
2012-11-21 03:33:56 AM
Even when singers aren't trying to imitate a particular vocal style associated with a genre, regional dialects tend to get lost in song

This was always my theory.


CavalierEternal: [www.chartattack.com image 425x288]

Your argument is invalid.


Came for Blur. Leaving satisfied.

See also:

www2.pictures.zimbio.com

www.fusedmagazine.com
 
2012-11-21 03:34:22 AM
 
2012-11-21 03:40:05 AM
The British and Aussies are faking their accents. When others aren't within earshot they talk just like the rest of the world.
 
2012-11-21 03:40:43 AM
Syd Barrett named his band after two American blues singers, but managed to sing in a thoroughly British accent. That cat's something I can't explain.
 
2012-11-21 03:42:14 AM
Nonrhoticity - my new favorite word.
 
2012-11-21 03:44:57 AM
dnrtfa but I assume it has something to do with a) The American blues and R&B origin of British rock music and b) the American musical market being exponentially larger than its UK counterpart.
 
2012-11-21 03:45:56 AM
Herman's Hermits always sang with a British accent. So we sang their songs as such and liked it that way.
/'enry the Vlll th
//Mrs. Brown you've gawt a lohvely daughtah....
 
2012-11-21 03:48:27 AM
"...as did Paul McCartney in his cover of "Till There Was You," pronouncing saw more like sawr."

Umm, I think that's actually part of some British dialects, isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I hear this a lot in spoken British English. I don't think Paul was trying to sound American, necessarily. More like he let his own accent slip out.
 
2012-11-21 03:51:05 AM
I get the same effect when I try to type something in British.
 
2012-11-21 03:53:33 AM
Mel Tillis never stuttered when he sang...


w-w-w-w-w-w-we're closed!

Get in the car Junior, we're surrounded by mental cases.
 
2012-11-21 03:55:31 AM

NicoFinn: "...as did Paul McCartney in his cover of "Till There Was You," pronouncing saw more like sawr."

Umm, I think that's actually part of some British dialects, isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I hear this a lot in spoken British English. I don't think Paul was trying to sound American, necessarily. More like he let his own accent slip out.


Also, British persons have this odd habit of putting an er on the end of words that end with a. Like "Americer" or "Obamer". Not sure if it's a recent development or not, and even though I tend to like British accents, that little quirk can get annoying.
 
2012-11-21 03:56:23 AM
Because black American R&B musicians didn't have English accents.
 
2012-11-21 03:56:30 AM
Can we talk about the "black" sound for a minute?
 
2012-11-21 03:59:23 AM

ClintonKun: NicoFinn: "...as did Paul McCartney in his cover of "Till There Was You," pronouncing saw more like sawr."

Umm, I think that's actually part of some British dialects, isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I hear this a lot in spoken British English. I don't think Paul was trying to sound American, necessarily. More like he let his own accent slip out.

Also, British persons have this odd habit of putting an er on the end of words that end with a. Like "Americer" or "Obamer". Not sure if it's a recent development or not, and even though I tend to like British accents, that little quirk can get annoyinger.


FTFY
 
2012-11-21 03:59:48 AM

Kevin72: Herman's Hermits always sang with a British accent. So we sang their songs as such and liked it that way.
/'enry the Vlll th
//Mrs. Brown you've gawt a lohvely daughtah....


...girls as shahp as 'er ah somethin' raeh...
 
2012-11-21 04:03:32 AM
This man knows why you don't stutter when you sing.
 
2012-11-21 04:06:00 AM

ClintonKun: NicoFinn: "...as did Paul McCartney in his cover of "Till There Was You," pronouncing saw more like sawr."

Umm, I think that's actually part of some British dialects, isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I hear this a lot in spoken British English. I don't think Paul was trying to sound American, necessarily. More like he let his own accent slip out.

Also, British persons have this odd habit of putting an er on the end of words that end with a. Like "Americer" or "Obamer". Not sure if it's a recent development or not, and even though I tend to like British accents, that little quirk can get annoying.


I hear it on the radio all the time when they mention Canader and Chiner, always found it very odd.
 
2012-11-21 04:09:13 AM

Gosling: This man knows why you don't stutter when you sing.


Everybody stutters, one way or the other.
 
2012-11-21 04:09:45 AM

SJKebab: Not just british. Basically everyone who sings in the english language sounds american when they sing. Anything else just sounds weird these days.


More like the mental factors that distinguish music from speech in the human mind often displace the cultural factors in language that constitute an accent. It's not so much that we sound British when we're singing or the Brits sound American when they're singing as that we both sound like we're singing when we're singing.
 
2012-11-21 04:14:46 AM

SJKebab: Not just british. Basically everyone who sings in the english language sounds american when they sing. Anything else just sounds weird these days.

To counterpoint, here's some hip hop sung with an Aussie accent. As much as I enjoy it, I imagine most of you will be turned off just by the novelty of it (to say nothing about the tonality of the aussie accent to begin with...)


As an Australian I can say that it puts me on edge when I hear Aussie hip-hop. Our accents aren't really that broad. It seems really over-exaggerated in hip-hop.

/http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFNZtgKRKf0 Aussie group who sing with decent Australian accents.
//http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDx6nHExwRw is my example of "Sometimes sounds American, but really does sound English at times too"
///He is English
 
2012-11-21 04:15:31 AM
...I suck for not hyperlinking those
/hangs head in web developer shame
 
2012-11-21 04:31:17 AM

CavalierEternal: [www.chartattack.com image 425x288]

Your argument is invalid.



4.bp.blogspot.com

Shut ya havering, subby, ya fackin' radge! 
 
2012-11-21 04:32:25 AM
Song done British: Link

Same song, done Murrican: Link

/I love 'em both ways
 
2012-11-21 04:32:45 AM

You are Borg:
Also, British persons have this odd habit of putting an er on the end of words that end with a. Like "Americer" or "Obamer". Not sure if it's a recent development or not, and even though I tend to like British accents, that little quirk can get annoying.

I hear it on the radio all the time when they mention Canader and Chiner, always found it very odd.


It's a common feature of rural/suburban dialect in south England and Whales. When I visited family in Scotland and North England no one did it, but my cousins from a couple towns southwest of London (around the Rugby area) can't get a sentence out without appending an "arr" sound to the end of at least one word.

Interesting tidbit, this is why attempts in the early 19th century to standardize English spelling phonetically (in the 1700s it wasn't standardized at all) were miserable failures: hop from one municipality to the next, and how the words were pronounced precisely changed pretty dramatically. So we ended up standardizing based on just picking a damned spelling and making it the correct one, which is why we have some seemingly odd ones like "through" still being spelled the way it was pronounced in the 1820s instead of "throo" like it's pronounced by most modern English speakers. We only correct when the standard is no longer "close enough".
 
2012-11-21 04:34:18 AM

gameshowhost: Die Antwoord - Fatty Boom Boom


Thank you.
 
2012-11-21 04:38:18 AM

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Song done British: Link

Same song, done Murrican: Link

/I love 'em both ways


The up tempo banjo picking of the American version seems to fit the song better.

But Richard Thompson is so much better at singing it than the other band.

I just like the bluegrass version better.
 
2012-11-21 04:39:01 AM
Huh. I always assumed Brits to be talentless, soulless, vacant hacks and that all their artists were American imports. Who knew?
 
Poe
2012-11-21 04:40:17 AM
I remember seeing an interview with Tom Jones a few years back, couldn't understand half of what he was saying. Not being from that generation, I had no idea he was Welsh, cause when singing he is perfectly comprehensible.
 
2012-11-21 04:43:56 AM

phrawgh: Huh. I always assumed Brits to be talentless, soulless, vacant hacks and that all their artists were American imports. Who knew?


alltheragefaces.com
 
2012-11-21 04:43:57 AM

Poe: I remember seeing an interview with Tom Jones a few years back, couldn't understand half of what he was saying. Not being from that generation, I had no idea he was Welsh, cause when singing he is perfectly comprehensible.


He was drunk.
 
2012-11-21 04:50:11 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Song done British: Link

Same song, done Murrican: Link

/I love 'em both ways

The up tempo banjo picking of the American version seems to fit the song better.

But Richard Thompson is so much better at singing it than the other band.

I just like the bluegrass version better.


I have a friend who is a great banjo picker, and one day he came to me saying, "Hey, you gotta hear this song that Del McCoury does!" I heard about four bars, and knew what it was. I turned him on to the Richard Thompson version, and he reached the identical conclusion you did. Myself, I always preferred Richard Thompson's version, because I was more familiar with it, and he's such an impeccable guitarist. But as the saying goes, YMMV. :)
 
2012-11-21 04:50:27 AM
So if Rob Thomas worked at sounding British, would he sound normal?
/worrrrst everrrr.
 
2012-11-21 04:51:21 AM

You are Borg: ClintonKun: NicoFinn: "...as did Paul McCartney in his cover of "Till There Was You," pronouncing saw more like sawr."

Umm, I think that's actually part of some British dialects, isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I hear this a lot in spoken British English. I don't think Paul was trying to sound American, necessarily. More like he let his own accent slip out.

Also, British persons have this odd habit of putting an er on the end of words that end with a. Like "Americer" or "Obamer". Not sure if it's a recent development or not, and even though I tend to like British accents, that little quirk can get annoying.

I hear it on the radio all the time when they mention Canader and Chiner, always found it very odd.


What do you call a blind dinosaur?
 
2012-11-21 05:01:23 AM

SJKebab: Not just british. Basically everyone who sings in the english language sounds american when they sing. Anything else just sounds weird these days.


It's because that's how people sing in the music they listen to.

Look at how many little girl singers sing in that horrible faux-Irish accent when they sing.

This is how you spot true musical talent - they don't imitate everybody else, they do their own thing.
 
2012-11-21 05:03:31 AM
Subby has never listened to Bowie or the Jam.
 
2012-11-21 05:05:42 AM

Wittenberg Dropout: Subby has never listened to Bowie or the Jam.


Subby doesn't know what the fark he's talking about. He just noticed a couple of people do it and extrapolated.
 
2012-11-21 05:10:14 AM

david_gaithersburg: The British and Aussies are faking their accents. When others aren't within earshot they talk just like the rest of the world.


This is partly true. There was a TV program about the English accent. It claimed that Old English is approximated most closely in the mid-atlantic USA - Inland Virginia, if I recall. The British aristocracy has since deliberately affected their accent to sound exclusive and posh. Of course the bougie peeps followed suit, much like contemporary people often follow trends of celebrities. Different areas of course derived and developed their own regional accents from that model.
Funny that one of America's famous celebs, Madonna, has also adopted her own odd ostensibly british-styled accent from nowhere in particular. I have seen this phenomena of appropriating a similar 'posh' dialect in American cities as well. I've suspected it comes from some shame of one's own native dialect or a sense of identifying with a preferred group.
 
2012-11-21 05:16:42 AM
I listen to a fair amount of metal from bands around the world. I sometimes have to check Wikipedia to find out what nation they're from, as I can't tell by listening, generally. I tend not to care much where they're from, but I've gotten some ribbing from my siblings about being secretly scandinavian or something.
 
2012-11-21 05:17:52 AM

gameshowhost: Die Antwoord - Fatty Boom Boom


gameshowhost: Die Antwoord - Fatty Boom Boom


I was thinking of him after I 'd read the first three posts in this thread - but here you are saving me the trouble!
 
2012-11-21 05:20:30 AM

Legios: SJKebab: Not just british. Basically everyone who sings in the english language sounds american when they sing. Anything else just sounds weird these days.

To counterpoint, here's some hip hop sung with an Aussie accent. As much as I enjoy it, I imagine most of you will be turned off just by the novelty of it (to say nothing about the tonality of the aussie accent to begin with...)

As an Australian I can say that it puts me on edge when I hear Aussie hip-hop. Our accents aren't really that broad. It seems really over-exaggerated in hip-hop.

/http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFNZtgKRKf0 Aussie group who sing with decent Australian accents.
//http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDx6nHExwRw is my example of "Sometimes sounds American, but really does sound English at times too"
///He is English


Australian accents make for wonderful Indie pop, or at least Elizabeth Morris' lightly accented voice does.
 
2012-11-21 05:22:54 AM
Liam Gallagher frowns on your shenanigans.
 
2012-11-21 05:26:52 AM
CASEY KASEM'S AMERICAN TOP 40 BRITISH HITS OF THE ROCK ERA - 4/6/74

40: SUNSHINE SUPERMAN - DONOVAN
39: WILD THING - THE TROGGS
38: MY LOVE - PETULA CLARK
37: LOVE ME DO - BEATLES
36: PAINT IT BLACK - THE ROLLING STONES
35: RUBY TUESDAY - THE ROLLING STONES
34: UNCLE ALBERT/ADMIRAL HALSEY - PAUL & LINDA McCARTNEY
33: GIVE ME LOVE - GEORGE HARRISON
32: GET OFF MY CLOUD - THE ROLLING STONES
31: HOUSE OF THE RISING SUN - THE ANIMALS
30: BROWN SUGAR - THE ROLLING STONES
29: HELLO GOODBYE - THE BEATLES
28: I FEEL FINE - THE BEATLES
27: PHOTOGRAPH - RINGO STARR
26: MRS. BROWN, YOU'VE GOT A LOVELY DAUGHTER - HERMAN'S HERMITS
25: DO WAH DIDDY - MANFRED MANN
24: A HARD DAY'S NIGHT - THE BEATLES
23: YESTERDAY - THE BEATLES
22: WE CAN WORK IT OUT - THE BEATLES
21: CAN'T BUY ME LOVE - THE BEATLES
20: HELP - THE BEATLES
19: DOWNTOWN - PETULA CLARK
18: LET IT BE - THE BEATLES
17: COME TOGETHER - THE BEATLES
16a: SOMETHING - THE BEATLES
16b: SHE LOVES YOU - THE BEATLES
15: TELSTAR - THE TORNADOES
14: SATISFACTION - THE ROLLING STONES
13: WINCHESTER CATHEDRAL - NEW VAUDEVILLE BAND
12: GET BACK - THE BEATLES
11: MY SWEET LORD - GEORGE HARRISON
10: HOW CAN YOU MEND A BROKEN HEART - THE BEE GEES
9: STRANGER ON THE SHORE - MR. ACKER BILK
8: CROCODILE ROCK - ELTON JOHN
7: HONKY TONK WOMAN - ROLLING STONES
6: MY LOVE - PAUL McCARTNEY & WINGS
5: TO SIR WITH LOVE - LULU
4: MAGGIE MAY - ROD STEWART
3: ALONE AGAIN, NATURALLY - GILBERT O' SULLIVAN
2: I WANT TO HOLD YOUR HAND - THE BEATLES
1: HEY JUDE - THE BEATLES
 
2012-11-21 05:31:54 AM

You are Borg: ClintonKun: NicoFinn: "...as did Paul McCartney in his cover of "Till There Was You," pronouncing saw more like sawr."

Umm, I think that's actually part of some British dialects, isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I hear this a lot in spoken British English. I don't think Paul was trying to sound American, necessarily. More like he let his own accent slip out.

Also, British persons have this odd habit of putting an er on the end of words that end with a. Like "Americer" or "Obamer". Not sure if it's a recent development or not, and even though I tend to like British accents, that little quirk can get annoying.

I hear it on the radio all the time when they mention Canader and Chiner, always found it very odd.


First time I heard it was Hugh Grant, Nine Months. 'Rebeccer' WTF? Rebecker this Rebecker that Thanks Jeff for subtly calling him out on it.

I wouldn't find it so annoying, m'self, if it didn't sound thisclose to turning into a racial epithet. That's why I can't stand it. But folks cain't he'p how they talk, so, not his fault, not intentional, not with malice.
 
2012-11-21 05:34:27 AM
 
2012-11-21 05:35:38 AM

JerkyMeat: Can we talk about the "black" sound for a minute?


OK: Do Black actors in the UK sounds black to (black, white, Asian) Brits, while US Blacks just sound American?

See also: reports that the world saw New Karate Kid as Americans being Americans, while US folks saw New Karate Kid as being black Americans differentiated from white (aka 'general') Americans?
 
2012-11-21 05:39:28 AM

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Song done British: Link

Same song, done Murrican: Link

/I love 'em both ways


Extra funny points: the Murrican way -- down to the very instruments being played -- was first done by the black and irish slaves those country boys used to own.

then the irish got uppity and called themselves white.
 
2012-11-21 05:41:48 AM

Joce678: SJKebab: Not just british. Basically everyone who sings in the english language sounds american when they sing. Anything else just sounds weird these days.

It's because that's how people sing in the music they listen to.

Look at how many little girl singers sing in that horrible faux-Irish accent when they sing.

This is how you spot true musical talent - they don't imitate everybody else, they do their own thing.


Unless it's a white girl 'singing like a black girl'...... then all bets are off.
 
2012-11-21 05:43:55 AM
So it's the r's. Funny, that's the same thing Gary Oldman said when he was on NPR.
 
2012-11-21 05:45:19 AM

Ablejack: david_gaithersburg: The British and Aussies are faking their accents. When others aren't within earshot they talk just like the rest of the world.

This is partly true. There was a TV program about the English accent. It claimed that Old English is approximated most closely in the mid-atlantic USA - Inland Virginia, if I recall. The British aristocracy has since deliberately affected their accent to sound exclusive and posh. Of course the bougie peeps followed suit, much like contemporary people often follow trends of celebrities. Different areas of course derived and developed their own regional accents from that model.
Funny that one of America's famous celebs, Madonna, has also adopted her own odd ostensibly british-styled accent from nowhere in particular. I have seen this phenomena of appropriating a similar 'posh' dialect in American cities as well. I've suspected it comes from some shame of one's own native dialect or a sense of identifying with a preferred group.


Of course it's shame. See also: the 'party planner' chick in first season revenge. Replace the chick and her accent with a 'Murrican. Parties aren't so 'posh and exclusive' anymore. Nothing but affectation to hire her, nothing but affectation for Madonna to get rid of her real accent.
 
2012-11-21 05:45:30 AM

Jim_Callahan: SJKebab: Not just british. Basically everyone who sings in the english language sounds american when they sing. Anything else just sounds weird these days.

More like the mental factors that distinguish music from speech in the human mind often displace the cultural factors in language that constitute an accent. It's not so much that we sound British when we're singing or the Brits sound American when they're singing as that we both sound like we're singing when we're singing.


That's partly right. Singing properly involves techniques like vowel modification that tend to cause pronunciations to converge. For example, no matter how you would normally speak the long E in "deer", when you sing that vowel in your upper register, it becomes more like the I in "hit". The A in "cat" becomes like the A in "talk", or even like the O in "pot". "ah" modifies to "aw", and so on.

Any trained singer knows enough of the IPA to make fine distinctions between phonemes, and can adapt fairly easily to sing in almost any language. Generally, if you can distinguish an ethnic accent in a song, it's either there for stylistic purposes, or the singer is un- or poorly-trained.

On a related note, the years of vocal training I had when I was younger, for both singing and acting, have enabled me to imitate convincingly almost any accent I hear, so I can retell jokes that my international friends tell me to much greater effect.
 
2012-11-21 05:46:53 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: See also: reports that the world saw New Karate Kid as Americans being Americans, while US folks saw New Karate Kid as being black Americans differentiated from white (aka 'general') Americans?


That makes sense though. To a foreigner, an American is an American. In the US, however, since we are ALL Americans we differentiate between different kinds of Americans (since we are such a diverse nation).

I would think that in England that if there was a movie about a Jamaican British person or Pakistani British person, Britons would see it in some ethnic context.

/You'd be surprised by the racism found in Europe, especially if you are from anywhere in the Americas.
 
2012-11-21 05:51:55 AM
 
2012-11-21 05:52:59 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Gosling: This man knows why you don't stutter when you sing.

Everybody stutters, one way or the other.


B-b-baby you ain't seen nothin' yet!
 
2012-11-21 05:55:24 AM
Amy Whinehouse is not the sole standard for British singing, subby.
 
2012-11-21 06:12:52 AM
Regarding "sawr" it's just a case of linking/intrusive R, a feature of THEIR accent and not American ones. I am disappointed that the writer could have discussed the singing accent phenomenon but also be ignorant of this.
 
2012-11-21 06:13:56 AM
oi45.tinypic.com
All your arguments are invalid
 
2012-11-21 06:20:42 AM

fusillade762: Even when singers aren't trying to imitate a particular vocal style associated with a genre, regional dialects tend to get lost in song

This was always my theory.


CavalierEternal: [www.chartattack.com image 425x288]

Your argument is invalid.

Came for Blur. Leaving satisfied.

See also:

[www2.pictures.zimbio.com image 594x427]

[www.fusedmagazine.com image 800x1200]


That first one isn't Nena, is it? If it is, I don't think this argument counts when singing in a completely different language, at least in my opinion. Either way, I agree that dialects get lost. One of my examples was Ozzy taking vs. Ozzy singing, all the way back to the beginning.
 
2012-11-21 06:42:46 AM

phrawgh: Huh. I always assumed Brits to be talentless, soulless, vacant hacks and that all their artists were American imports. Who knew?


policelink.monster.com
 
2012-11-21 06:44:59 AM

Mikey1969: That first one isn't Nena, is it? If it is, I don't think this argument counts when singing in a completely different language, at least in my opinion.


That's Lily Allen.
 
2012-11-21 06:52:02 AM
 
Boe
2012-11-21 06:53:04 AM
Jarvis Cocker frowns on your shenanigans!
 
2012-11-21 06:54:28 AM
British hip hop shows tha author doesn't have much of a clue

Dizzee Rascal Link
Lethal Bizzle Link

/And for fun Mr B the Gentleman Rhymer Link
 
2012-11-21 07:02:10 AM

fusillade762: phrawgh: Huh. I always assumed Brits to be talentless, soulless, vacant hacks and that all their artists were American imports. Who knew?

[policelink.monster.com image 192x307]


You caught me. I like Brits. I really do. Hell, some of my best friends are Brits.
 
2012-11-21 07:11:46 AM

max_pooper: Austrian Irish accent - best for picking up chicks


FTFY
 
2012-11-21 07:36:20 AM
www.sirensofsong.com
 
2012-11-21 07:45:11 AM

ClintonKun: NicoFinn: "...as did Paul McCartney in his cover of "Till There Was You," pronouncing saw more like sawr."

Umm, I think that's actually part of some British dialects, isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I hear this a lot in spoken British English. I don't think Paul was trying to sound American, necessarily. More like he let his own accent slip out.

Also, British persons have this odd habit of putting an er on the end of words that end with a. Like "Americer" or "Obamer". Not sure if it's a recent development or not, and even though I tend to like British accents, that little quirk can get annoying.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linking_and_intrusive_R

Nope, it's about a 300 year old development.

/Used to teach English alongside Canadians, Britons, and Aussies.
 
2012-11-21 07:49:22 AM

Jim_Callahan: It's a common feature of rural/suburban dialect in south England and Whales.


i27.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-21 07:52:00 AM

DemoKnite: I used to think the same thing until I had lived in both countries for an extended time. Now, I can hear a British singer coming from a mile away.


I came here to say...they usually sound English to me. So I don't really get the article.

Unless they're TRYING to sound American, which is common in rock or blues music. Even then, when they say certain words I can usually tell.

Pink Floyd for instance, even as a rock band, sounds English.
Adele doesn't sound American to me either. I figured she wasn't, even before I knew where she was from.

Maybe most people are just really bad at picking up accents.
 
2012-11-21 07:53:53 AM

Z-clipped: max_pooper: Austrian Irish Oirish accent - best for picking up chicks


FTFY

Also, I'm pretty sure they're singing in English on this album, but sometime a bit difficult to tell:

images.uulyrics.com

Either way, it's fun to sing/grunt along to.
 
2012-11-21 07:55:02 AM
Meant to mention, that one of the best American imposters IMO is Robert Plant. Most of the time he sounds like a standard American rock singer. But like I mentioned above, they're TRYING to sound like American rock, so it's not like English singers just automatically sound American for some reason.
 
2012-11-21 08:01:25 AM

mkultra4013: Z-clipped: max_pooper: Austrian Irish Oirish accent - best for picking up chicks

FTFY

Also, I'm pretty sure they're singing in English on this album, but sometime a bit difficult to tell:

[images.uulyrics.com image 500x500]

Either way, it's fun to sing/grunt along to.


I love trying to figure out what they're saying.

This thread reminded me how much I love someone singing with an Irish or Scottish accent
 
2012-11-21 08:01:46 AM
This is the band that invalidates the argument:
www.musicko.com
 
2012-11-21 08:03:21 AM
4.bp.blogspot.com

This guy wins though with the whole "singing with an American accent" category.
 
2012-11-21 08:17:08 AM

LDM90: I never understood why people say that. When I was a kid I always thought everyone sang with an English accent. The Rs were softened, the way a British person leaves the R off the end of words. The Beatles were from England and every rock band that came after was inspired by them.

Of course in the last 15 or 20 years it's gone the opposite way, mostly thanks to Kurt Cobain. He wasn't really too bad about it but everyone imitating him has overdone it. Pronouncing everything with an ARRRRRrrr makes you sound angry or emotional or something I guess. Hell, even Taylor Swift does it.


Listen to Frank Sinatra. He would even sing consonants. Unorthodox, but he made it work. And well before Cobain.
 
2012-11-21 08:41:40 AM

FunkOut: Meanwhile, why do so many American punk singers sound British?


Because the Beatles. Everybody sounded English before 1980
 
2012-11-21 08:45:11 AM

FunkOut: Meanwhile, why do so many American punk singers sound British?


Bob Pollard's a punk?
 
2012-11-21 08:49:54 AM

ClintonKun:
Also, British persons have this odd habit of putting an er on the end of words that end with a. Like "Americer" or "Obamer". Not sure if it's a recent development or not, and even though I tend to like British accents, that little quirk can get annoying.


My grandmother, who's from Maine, also sprinkles the ends of many words with an "r."

\she's of English descent
\\drinks tea with milk, and has her entire life
\\\referred to her mother as "mum"
 
2012-11-21 08:52:59 AM
It goes to prove that American English is the proper, natural way to speak. British English is the accent, not American.
 
2012-11-21 08:53:56 AM

Dahnkster: Mel Tillis never stuttered when he sang...


If I had a dollar for every time an old person told me that, I might be able to afford speech therapy.
 
2012-11-21 08:54:55 AM

You are Borg: ClintonKun: NicoFinn: "...as did Paul McCartney in his cover of "Till There Was You," pronouncing saw more like sawr."

Umm, I think that's actually part of some British dialects, isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I hear this a lot in spoken British English. I don't think Paul was trying to sound American, necessarily. More like he let his own accent slip out.

Also, British persons have this odd habit of putting an er on the end of words that end with a. Like "Americer" or "Obamer". Not sure if it's a recent development or not, and even though I tend to like British accents, that little quirk can get annoying.

I hear it on the radio all the time when they mention Canader and Chiner, always found it very odd.



What about dropping middle TT sound in words like butter and better (e.g., "butter" is pronounced "bu'er" with a glottal stop)?

Or completely neglecting the "th" sound? When we were in England last week, you heard this everywhere, including the Home Counties: Many of them can't pronounce "th." I've heard rumors that many British can't actually hear the difference between "th" and v/f.

\ "I won the elf lo'ery!"
 
2012-11-21 08:56:42 AM

Tat'dGreaser: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 567x311]

This guy wins though with the whole "singing with an American accent" category.


oddly enough, i'm listening to that soundtrack right now
 
2012-11-21 09:00:01 AM
Did not and does not sound American:

upload.wikimedia.org

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-11-21 09:08:11 AM

Andrew Wiggin: oddly enough, i'm listening to that soundtrack right now


Love that flick
 
2012-11-21 09:21:49 AM

X-Geek: [www.sirensofsong.com image 640x479]


Love me some Harriet Wheeler...
 
2012-11-21 09:32:10 AM

Hilary T. N. Seuss: That cat's something I can't explain.


Well played!
 
2012-11-21 09:36:16 AM

TheVeryDeadIanMartin: Did not and does not sound American:

[upload.wikimedia.org image 382x593]

[upload.wikimedia.org image 386x250]


Who's the most British-sounding singer? My vote:

i.imgur.com
Anyone top it?
 
2012-11-21 09:37:09 AM
even the scorpions sound like theyre from the northeast
 
2012-11-21 09:37:17 AM

Mikey1969: fusillade762: Even when singers aren't trying to imitate a particular vocal style associated with a genre, regional dialects tend to get lost in song

This was always my theory.


CavalierEternal: [www.chartattack.com image 425x288]

Your argument is invalid.

Came for Blur. Leaving satisfied.

See also:

[www2.pictures.zimbio.com image 594x427]

[www.fusedmagazine.com image 800x1200]

That first one isn't Nena, is it? If it is, I don't think this argument counts when singing in a completely different language, at least in my opinion. Either way, I agree that dialects get lost. One of my examples was Ozzy taking vs. Ozzy singing, all the way back to the beginning.


I find Ozzy more understandable when he sings. If he is talking you need subtitles
 
2012-11-21 09:40:32 AM

NicoFinn: "...as did Paul McCartney in his cover of "Till There Was You," pronouncing saw more like sawr."

Umm, I think that's actually part of some British dialects, isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I hear this a lot in spoken British English. I don't think Paul was trying to sound American, necessarily. More like he let his own accent slip out.


Bingo. Paul has a Merseyside Liverpool accent. It's got lilting elements of the Irish accent to it, but there are also elements which sound American, or more correctly, there are elements of the Liverpool accent which when exported to America became part of out accent.

It makes perfect sense if you remember that Liverpool was a major trading port with the US in the 18th and 19th centuries and a major point of embarkation.
 
2012-11-21 09:40:48 AM

FunkOut: Meanwhile, why do so many American punk singers sound British?


I wouldn't say "so many" but the answer is "blame the Ramones"
 
2012-11-21 09:51:24 AM

Ablejack: david_gaithersburg: The British and Aussies are faking their accents. When others aren't within earshot they talk just like the rest of the world.

Funny that one of America's famous celebs, Madonna, has also adopted her own odd ostensibly british-styled accent from nowhere in particular. I have seen this phenomena of appropriating a similar 'posh' dialect in American cities as well. I've suspected it comes from some shame of one's own native dialect or a sense of identifying with a preferred group.

 

Does she still have the accent?

I'm not sure that it was fake or had anything to do with feeling ashamed of her own accent. I experienced something similar when I lived in England. I have a pretty strong southern accent, but after about a year of living there, I sounded English. It wasn't deliberate -- I just started to sound like the people around me. I couldn't hear it, but when I would call home to talk to family and friends, they sure as heck could!

When I moved back to the US, it took about six months for me to sound southern again. But I am married to a Brit, so some of the accent has hung around and it will sometimes come out when I am talking to him.

I also sometimes pick up on the accents of good friends who come from other parts of the US (Jersey, California, Ohio). Again -- don't mean to, it just happens!

I have a good ear for accents so maybe that has something to do with it?

I'm pretty sure that there is some linguistic-type reason that this happens to some people. I know we have some language nerds here on fark, maybe they can explain it?
 
2012-11-21 10:02:57 AM

david_gaithersburg: The British and Aussies are faking their accents. When others aren't within earshot they talk just like the rest of the world.


So... they sound Chinese?
 
2012-11-21 10:03:40 AM
 
2012-11-21 10:06:17 AM
o/~ See the girls in Californiar, I'm hoping it's going to come true, but there's not a lot I can do... o/~
 
2012-11-21 10:16:51 AM

Joce678: SJKebab: Not just british. Basically everyone who sings in the english language sounds american when they sing. Anything else just sounds weird these days.

It's because that's how people sing in the music they listen to.

Look at how many little girl singers sing in that horrible faux-Irish accent when they sing.

This is how you spot true musical talent - they don't imitate everybody else, they do their own thing.


That's a poor definition of musical talent. Wouldn't it be the people who make it sound the way they want it to sound be better?
 
2012-11-21 10:26:37 AM
Adele does not sound "American" on the Skyfall song. She sounds like every other British chick aping Motown with a mouthful of marbles. Enunciation, it's important.
 
2012-11-21 10:36:24 AM

FunkOut: Meanwhile, why do so many American punk singers sound British?


Billie Joe Armstrong particularly guilty of this on early Green Day records...
 
2012-11-21 10:38:19 AM
www.trbimg.com
 
2012-11-21 10:48:50 AM

X-Geek: [www.sirensofsong.com image 640x479]


Oh Harriet! Like many late 80's indie kids my age, I had a massive crush on this woman.
 
2012-11-21 10:48:56 AM
They do it for the same reason country singers adopt a twangy accent, even when they are from LA or Canada.
 
2012-11-21 10:54:50 AM

Dwight_Yeast: NicoFinn: "...as did Paul McCartney in his cover of "Till There Was You," pronouncing saw more like sawr."

Umm, I think that's actually part of some British dialects, isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I hear this a lot in spoken British English. I don't think Paul was trying to sound American, necessarily. More like he let his own accent slip out.

Bingo. Paul has a Merseyside Liverpool accent. It's got lilting elements of the Irish accent to it, but there are also elements which sound American, or more correctly, there are elements of the Liverpool accent which when exported to America became part of out accent.

It makes perfect sense if you remember that Liverpool was a major trading port with the US in the 18th and 19th centuries and a major point of embarkation.


I've known people who grew up in/near New York City...Long Island, maybe?...with that quirk of speech. The "r" where none belongs.
 
2012-11-21 11:11:26 AM

Roamin' Polanski: FunkOut: Meanwhile, why do so many American punk singers sound British?

Billie Joe Armstrong particularly guilty of this on early Green Day records...


Have you heard his speaking voice? His faux Brit punk singing voice is much, much more suitable in comparison...
 
2012-11-21 11:16:18 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Song done British: Link

Same song, done Murrican: Link

/I love 'em both ways

Extra funny points: the Murrican way -- down to the very instruments being played -- was first done by the black and irish slaves those country boys used to own.

then the irish got uppity and called themselves white.


When we know they're pale blue.  Link
 
2012-11-21 11:23:51 AM

LewDux: Link Link


Thanks for these. Nice music to wake up to.
 
2012-11-21 11:26:52 AM

max_pooper: Each English language accent has its own best attribute:

American accent - best for rock n roll
British accent - best for sounding stuffy
Austrian accent - best for picking up chicks

It's science people.


Oh yeah? Well I speak Spanish to God, Italian to women, French to men, and German to my horse.

FizixJunkee: I've heard rumors that many British can't actually hear the difference between "th" and v/f.


People keep telling me there's a difference in pronunciation between "pen" and "pin", but I can't hear it. So of course I can't say it. I thought the first person that told me this was just farking with me, but I've had quite a few people from varied backgrounds confirm it. Now I feel really self conscious when I have to ask someone for something to write with.

/I pronounce and hear them both like "ten"
//Or is it tin..oh god I probably fark that up too
 
2012-11-21 12:02:09 PM

Eddie Ate Dynamite: People keep telling me there's a difference in pronunciation between "pen" and "pin", but I can't hear it. So of course I can't say it. I thought the first person that told me this was just farking with me, but I've had quite a few people from varied backgrounds confirm it. Now I feel really self conscious when I have to ask someone for something to write with.

/I pronounce and hear them both like "ten"
//Or is it tin..oh god I probably fark that up too


The vowel sound in pin is the same as the first vowel in icky.
The vowel sound in pen is the same as the first vowel in echo.
 
2012-11-21 12:15:45 PM

Eddie Ate Dynamite:

People keep telling me there's a difference in pronunciation between "pen" and "pin", but I can't hear it. So of course I can't say it. I thought the first person that told me this was just farking with me, but I've had quite a few people from varied backgrounds confirm it. Now I feel really self conscious when I have to ask someone for something to write with.

/I pronounce and hear them both like "ten"
//Or is it tin..oh god I probably fark that up too


I can hear the difference between "pin" and "pen" (and I pronounce them differently, too), but I know lots of people back home in Oklahoma who can't hear the difference.
 
2012-11-21 01:19:36 PM
Wait.. Lily Allen sounds British when she sings... But Shirley Manson doesn't sound Scottish when she sings..

You can't explain that!!
 
2012-11-21 01:24:28 PM
This is not true in Cocksparrer's case...

Link
 
2012-11-21 01:35:04 PM
jonmwessel.files.wordpress.com

Youh aaaaaaaaaagumen' ess ehnvelid
 
2012-11-21 01:43:13 PM
FTA: regional dialects tend to get lost in song: Intonation is superseded by melody, vowel length by the duration of each note, and vocal cadences by a song's rhythm. This makes vowel sounds and rhoticity all the more important in conveying accent in song.

That's pretty much all of it.
 
2012-11-21 02:11:22 PM
1.bp.blogspot.com
"hey guys, what's going on in this thread?" (see file name)
 
2012-11-21 02:12:33 PM

FeedTheCollapse: [1.bp.blogspot.com image 300x300]
"hey guys, what's going on in this thread?" (see file name)




huh, Fark rehosted the image and took the file name away...
 
2012-11-21 02:15:34 PM
Arctic Monkeys
Franz Ferdinand
Cranberries
Twin Atlantic..

just off the top of my head.
 
2012-11-21 02:28:23 PM

mkultra4013: Z-clipped: max_pooper: Austrian Irish Oirish accent - best for picking up chicks

FTFY

Also, I'm pretty sure they're singing in English on this album, but sometime a bit difficult to tell:

[images.uulyrics.com image 500x500]

Either way, it's fun to sing/grunt along to.


Actually a lot of their lyrics are in Gaelic
 
2012-11-21 02:30:53 PM

Jekylman: [jonmwessel.files.wordpress.com image 600x356]

Youh aaaaaaaaaagumen' ess ehnvelid


What's funny is I just watched Sex&Drugs&Rock&Roll yesterday. It was pretty good.
 
2012-11-21 02:35:09 PM
$$$, perhaps?
 
2012-11-21 02:39:21 PM

Ilmarinen: You are Borg: ClintonKun: NicoFinn: "...as did Paul McCartney in his cover of "Till There Was You," pronouncing saw more like sawr."

Umm, I think that's actually part of some British dialects, isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I hear this a lot in spoken British English. I don't think Paul was trying to sound American, necessarily. More like he let his own accent slip out.

Also, British persons have this odd habit of putting an er on the end of words that end with a. Like "Americer" or "Obamer". Not sure if it's a recent development or not, and even though I tend to like British accents, that little quirk can get annoying.

I hear it on the radio all the time when they mention Canader and Chiner, always found it very odd.

What do you call a blind dinosaur?


Do you think he sawer us? Haha, nice one!
 
2012-11-21 02:59:45 PM
FTFA: For the newest James Bond movie, Skyfall, English singer Adele recorded a song with the same name. Though Adele speaks with a strong London accent, her singing voice sounds more American than British. Why do British vocalists often sound American when they sing?

Let the skyfoe
When it crumboes
We wiwl stand toll
Face it oll togevah

Let the skyfoe
When it crumboes
We wiwl stand toll
Face it oll togevah
At skyfoe
At skyfoe

/She sounds pretty British to me.
 
2012-11-21 03:11:45 PM
because Englishmen are a bunch of pompous, stuck-up, snot-nosed, giant, twerp, scumbag, dickhead, assholes.

/ just thank us for saving you from being the smallest province in the Russian empire.
 
2012-11-21 03:24:30 PM
i have always rationalized this as simply as possible. When you speak in unplanned conversation your brain and mouth react in almost the same moment, so your speech comes out as you are used to speaking it, quickly and with whatever accent or draw or impediment you are used to. when you sing, your brain knows the words in advance (unless you're freestylin'), therefore no timing battle with your mouth and the words come out as planned/spelled/meant to be.
 
2012-11-21 03:46:48 PM

fusillade762: Even when singers aren't trying to imitate a particular vocal style associated with a genre, regional dialects tend to get lost in song

This was always my theory.


CavalierEternal: [www.chartattack.com image 425x288]

Your argument is invalid.

Came for Blur. Leaving satisfied.

See also:

[www2.pictures.zimbio.com image 594x427]

[www.fusedmagazine.com image 800x1200]


Nice... Loves me some Ting Tings.
 
2012-11-21 03:53:45 PM

Eddie Ate Dynamite: People keep telling me there's a difference in pronunciation between "pen" and "pin", but I can't hear it. So of course I can't say it. I thought the first person that told me this was just farking with me, but I've had quite a few people from varied backgrounds confirm it. Now I feel really self conscious when I have to ask someone for something to write with.


Here you go.

And don't even get me started on Merry-Marry-Mary. I've had West Coast farkers laugh in my face when I've told them that these words aren't supposed to rhyme with each other.
 
2012-11-21 03:57:23 PM
Did anyone know that Mumford & Sons were English? They sound like some down-home good ol' boys in that "I Will Wait" song.
 
2012-11-21 04:08:06 PM

B.L.Z. Bub: Did anyone know that Mumford & Sons were English? They sound like some down-home good ol' boys in that "I Will Wait" song.


Yeah. Listen to "Little Lion Man". It should be pretty clear they're British.
 
2012-11-21 04:36:23 PM

Z-clipped: Eddie Ate Dynamite: People keep telling me there's a difference in pronunciation between "pen" and "pin", but I can't hear it. So of course I can't say it. I thought the first person that told me this was just farking with me, but I've had quite a few people from varied backgrounds confirm it. Now I feel really self conscious when I have to ask someone for something to write with.

Here you go.

And don't even get me started on Merry-Marry-Mary. I've had West Coast farkers laugh in my face when I've told them that these words aren't supposed to rhyme with each other.


HA!
 
2012-11-21 05:04:47 PM

B.L.Z. Bub: Did anyone know that Mumford & Sons were English? They sound like some down-home good ol' boys in that "I Will Wait" song.


They sound pretty english or scottish or whatever in most of their songs to me. I've always thought of them as that band from england or scotland or whatever that tries to sound like a bluegrass band. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
 
2012-11-21 05:27:03 PM

red5ish:
The vowel sound in pin is the same as the first vowel in icky.
The vowel sound in pen is the same as the first vowel in echo.


Huh. That's the best explanation I've heard (seen) yet. If I sit here and say "pecho" I can sort of get to a "pen" that's different from "pin". "Pan" is really close though, seems like pen is about half way between pan and pin almost. Maybe I'm still off. I've heard that for certain things regarding speech if you don't develop it during adolescence you'll just never get it.

Z-clipped: Here you go.

And don't even get me started on Merry-Marry-Mary. I've had West Coast farkers laugh in my face when I've told them that these words aren't supposed to rhyme with each other.


HA! So I'm not retarded (in this case at least, just southern...yes, there's a difference)! In your face all you damn yankees, you're just trying to make shiat more difficult than it needs to be.

Regarding merry-marry-Mary, I think I actually have a very slight variation in my pronunciation of those words. Not sure if it's enough to be noticable to someone else listening though. You have to admit a lot of things sound similar in every-day speech when people may not enunciate clearly. There's a reason the military uses the whole Alpha Bravo Charlie thing, and it's not because it sounds cool. Well, maybe just a little. Can't remember what they call that alphabet though.
 
2012-11-21 06:04:38 PM

Z-clipped: And don't even get me started on Merry-Marry-Mary. I've had West Coast farkers laugh in my face when I've told them that these words aren't supposed to rhyme with each other.


I'm from the Midwest and I too would laugh in your face for such a statement. There is not the tiniest iota of difference in pronunciation of those three words where I come from.
 
2012-11-21 06:32:14 PM

FizixJunkee: You are Borg: ClintonKun: NicoFinn: "...as did Paul McCartney in his cover of "Till There Was You," pronouncing saw more like sawr."

Umm, I think that's actually part of some British dialects, isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I hear this a lot in spoken British English. I don't think Paul was trying to sound American, necessarily. More like he let his own accent slip out.

Also, British persons have this odd habit of putting an er on the end of words that end with a. Like "Americer" or "Obamer". Not sure if it's a recent development or not, and even though I tend to like British accents, that little quirk can get annoying.

I hear it on the radio all the time when they mention Canader and Chiner, always found it very odd.


What about dropping middle TT sound in words like butter and better (e.g., "butter" is pronounced "bu'er" with a glottal stop)?

Or completely neglecting the "th" sound? When we were in England last week, you heard this everywhere, including the Home Counties: Many of them can't pronounce "th." I've heard rumors that many British can't actually hear the difference between "th" and v/f.

\ "I won the elf lo'ery!"


Not true. Whoever is telling you these rumours is a big fat liar. Some people (usually Cockney) may pronounce th as v, but it's ridiculous to suggest that they can't hear a difference. I have family in Bethnal Green who would be shocked to learn they have some sort of hearing impairment.
 
2012-11-21 07:00:42 PM
 
2012-11-21 09:40:52 PM
access.nscpcdn.com

It works in reverse, too. Some American singers try to sound British whilst speaking.
 
2012-11-21 09:45:02 PM
img.youtube.com

Approve of the headline.

/hot linkage
//obscure?
 
2012-11-21 10:06:35 PM

ZeroCorpse: Let the skyfoe
When it crumboes
We wiwl stand toll
Face it oll togevah



I can't listen to that song without thinking of Elmer Fudd.
Her diction (or lack of it) makes it unintentionally hilarious.
 
2012-11-21 10:18:05 PM

NicoFinn: "...as did Paul McCartney in his cover of "Till There Was You," pronouncing saw more like sawr."

Umm, I think that's actually part of some British dialects, isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I hear this a lot in spoken British English. I don't think Paul was trying to sound American, necessarily. More like he let his own accent slip out.


He emphasized it on purpose.
 
2012-11-21 11:02:20 PM

Pawprint: I'm from the Midwest and I too would laugh in your face for such a statement. There is not the tiniest iota of difference in pronunciation of those three words where I come from.


Here's how we say them in the Northeast:
Merry = bed
Marry = cat
Mary = chair

Spiralmonkey: Not true. Whoever is telling you these rumours is a big fat liar. Some people (usually Cockney) may pronounce th as v, but it's ridiculous to suggest that they can't hear a difference. I have family in Bethnal Green who would be shocked to learn they have some sort of hearing impairment.


Strangely enough, I have heard certain French speakers equate these two sounds. The classic depiction of English by a French-speaker is to merge "th" with "z" ("Ze cat is on ze chair" ), but there are other possibilities including replacing "th" with the normal hard "t/d" that appears in French, ("Tuh mouse iz under de table"), or doing what my friend Francis does- "Vuh monkey is on vuh branch". Francis learned both French and Portuguese as a child though, so that may have affected his ear.

Eddie Ate Dynamite: I've heard that for certain things regarding speech if you don't develop it during adolescence you'll just never get it.


You can train your ear, but it takes a lot of hard work just like anything else.

Eddie Ate Dynamite: HA! So I'm not retarded (in this case at least, just southern...yes, there's a difference)! In your face all you damn yankees, you're just trying to make shiat more difficult than it needs to be.


I have a lot of family from the South, so I understand where you're coming from. Here's a question for you: If you put someone from west Texas, next to someone from southern Alabama next to someone from North Carolina, do they sound very different to your ear? Can you generally get an idea of where someone is from in the South by listening to their accent? If you can, then you have all of the natural talent you need to drop one accent and pick up another. We could have you pahking the cah and paying a dawla for a tawnic like a Bostonian in no time.

sipedogg311: i have always rationalized this as simply as possible. When you speak in unplanned conversation your brain and mouth react in almost the same moment, so your speech comes out as you are used to speaking it, quickly and with whatever accent or draw or impediment you are used to. when you sing, your brain knows the words in advance (unless you're freestylin'), therefore no timing battle with your mouth and the words come out as planned/spelled/meant to be.


It's a bit more complex than that neurologically. It's actually closer to the process of learning a language. Once a particular phoneme set is embedded, a speaker no longer needs to process a "translation" from one to another Obviously musicians deal with more rehearsed verbal material, but a similar phenomenon occurs for them in the case of scales and modes. Indian musical scales, for example, use the "re-flat" interval (or 1/2 tone above the root) that is almost never seen in Western music. When asked to improvise within Indian themes, western musicians will typically use the scales they're familiar with, but given enough exposure will eventually begin to unconsciously incorporate the re-flat without actually being taught the Indian scale.

ThatBillmanGuy: Wait.. Lily Allen sounds British when she sings... But Shirley Manson doesn't sound Scottish when she sings..

You can't explain that!!


I can... Shirley Manson is a musician. Lily Allen just....kinda sucks.
 
2012-11-21 11:49:01 PM

Mole Man: [
//obscure?


Morris Minor & The Majors? Hardly.

About the "th" and "v/f" thing, I was just listening to an Adam Carolla podcast with Sex Pistols' Steve Jones a while ago, and was annoyed by this "new-to-me" phenomena.

CSB!
 
2012-11-22 12:31:41 AM
GAT_00 [TotalFark]


2012-11-21 12:32:59 AM

RedPhoenix122: [i.telegraph.co.uk image 620x388]

Your argument is invalid.

upload.wikimedia.org

Ditto


actually, I came into this thread to say that Mark Knopfler sounds American in a lot of his DS songs. Infact, when their first record/single broke into the radio charts in America, listeners would call in asking "what's that great American sounding band you've been playing lately?". It's only when he speaks to the audience in live gigs (see Alchemy live) that he has a british accent.

Or, maybe I read your comment oppositely/wrongly.
 
2012-11-22 12:34:25 AM
I always found it interesting how some british singers in the late 60's, early 70's, intentionally put on a fake southern America accent for some songs:
Elton John "No Shoe Strings on Louise" and Mick Jagger (multiple rolling stones songs).


anyway, here's More great British / UK singers that sing in the vernacular:
Peter Hammill, Robyn Hitchcock, the lead singer from Wire (actually, now that I think about it... most UK punk bands sing with a British accent).
 
2012-11-22 12:40:48 AM
No one sounds more British than the Streets.
 
2012-11-22 01:32:35 AM

Koodz: ClintonKun: NicoFinn: "...as did Paul McCartney in his cover of "Till There Was You," pronouncing saw more like sawr."

Umm, I think that's actually part of some British dialects, isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I hear this a lot in spoken British English. I don't think Paul was trying to sound American, necessarily. More like he let his own accent slip out.

Also, British persons have this odd habit of putting an er on the end of words that end with a. Like "Americer" or "Obamer". Not sure if it's a recent development or not, and even though I tend to like British accents, that little quirk can get annoying.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linking_and_intrusive_R

Nope, it's about a 300 year old development.

/Used to teach English alongside Canadians, Britons, and Aussies.


Aha, I was reading the article with that one line from the song "A Day In The Life" running through my head. I've been wondering about the intrusive R for a long time now, though I didn't know how the phenomenon was described.

From what I've read, the use of a non-linking -er at the end of a word might be blamed in part on 19th century Oxford students: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_-er
 
2012-11-22 03:18:29 AM

cyberspacedout: From what I've read, the use of a non-linking -er at the end of a word might be blamed in part on 19th century Oxford students: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_-er


There's a lot of theory on it, but I think it's just that during the British shift away from the use of the rhotic, people started applying the "-er sounds like /ə/ unless followed by a vowel" rule in reverse. So any word that ended in /ə/, -er or not, was assumed to need an intrusive /ɹ/ if it was followed by a vowel. That's why a Brit will say "I like Barack Obamah", but will also say "Barack Obamer asked me out for suppah." 

Oh... and what do you know? Wikipedier agrees.
 
Heb
2012-11-22 04:22:37 AM

Jim_Callahan: You are Borg:
Also, British persons have this odd habit of putting an er on the end of words that end with a. Like "Americer" or "Obamer". Not sure if it's a recent development or not, and even though I tend to like British accents, that little quirk can get annoying.

I hear it on the radio all the time when they mention Canader and Chiner, always found it very odd.

It's a common feature of rural/suburban dialect in south England and Whales. When I visited family in Scotland and North England no one did it, but my cousins from a couple towns southwest of London (around the Rugby area) can't get a sentence out without appending an "arr" sound to the end of at least one word.

Interesting tidbit, this is why attempts in the early 19th century to standardize English spelling phonetically (in the 1700s it wasn't standardized at all) were miserable failures: hop from one municipality to the next, and how the words were pronounced precisely changed pretty dramatically. So we ended up standardizing based on just picking a damned spelling and making it the correct one, which is why we have some seemingly odd ones like "through" still being spelled the way it was pronounced in the 1820s instead of "throo" like it's pronounced by most modern English speakers. We only correct when the standard is no longer "close enough".


Your cousins are lying to you to make themselves sound cool. Rugby is in the midlands. As far as us Londoners are concerned, they are northerners :)
 
2012-11-22 07:45:01 AM

Heb: Rugby is in the midlands. As far as us Londoners are concerned, they are northerners :)

Sgt. Shadwell hated all southerners and, by inference, was standing at the North Pole.

 
2012-11-22 08:05:38 AM

Z-clipped



2012-11-22 03:18:29 AM

cyberspacedout: From what I've read, the use of a non-linking -er at the end of a word might be blamed in part on 19th century Oxford students: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_-er

There's a lot of theory on it, but I think it's just that during the British shift away from the use of the rhotic, people started applying the "-er sounds like /ə/ unless followed by a vowel" rule in reverse. So any word that ended in /ə/, -er or not, was assumed to need an intrusive /ɹ/ if it was followed by a vowel. That's why a Brit will say "I like Barack Obamah", but will also say "Barack Obamer asked me out for suppah."


The one I noticed the most was when I had a British/English Professor in University, and he consistently pronounced "Canada" as "Canad-er"
 
2012-11-22 08:59:01 AM

Already Disturbed: [www.trbimg.com image 599x480]


Yeah this guy with his reverse of the headline
 
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