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(Salon)   The Complete Idiot's Guide to Wal-Mart's Black Friday Showdown, which pits low-wage workers against greedy management and owners   (salon.com) divider line 370
    More: PSA, Wal-Mart, picket lines, forced labour, North Jersey, unfair labor practice, cover letters  
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12435 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Nov 2012 at 10:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-21 04:12:36 AM  

ladyfortuna: I'm always intrigued by these threads where people claim retail workers have no skills. I'd like to see those same people face down two thousand+ annoyed shoppers over the course of a 10+ hour day and somehow manage to a. help them, and b. not punch them all in the face. That takes something called self control.

Also while not 'major skills', counting/handling money (gasp), understanding stock procedures, understanding and regurgitating store policies to clueless shoppers, product knowledge (especially in electronics and other high tech industries), teamwork, customer service, and to some extent security, are all skills one picks up working long term in retail. A lot of people I've worked with in regular offices would be completely lost in a retail setting.

/six years retail
//not one customer complaint
///switching to IT because I dislike people in general


Most of my life I've worked retail and I've hired plenty of college graduates who couldn't handle the job. Long hours on hard floors, working past closing for last minute customers who may not spend a dime but just want to look around, and if your management you might as well give up your life. 95-100 hour work weeks during Christmas, someone on vacation.

this is a great comic about working retail and his book nails a lot of it on the money

Link
 
2012-11-21 04:16:21 AM  
My town and I always buy the cheapest, doesn't matter if the product was made by not paying people enough or if the source suffered a lot. Our Walmart is like the only place we all shop in. If Walmart ever goes out of business, we'd all shop at the next cheapest store. It's not just Walmart that resorts to cheap labor, Apple and other big time companies get rich because they know how to create good things for the cheapest possible price. Why should us consumers be worried about by things like employees' wages, or how the products were made? As consumers, we're not obligated to think about those things, our priority is to get the best deals for the lowest price, especially in this horrid economy. Personally, I don't feel like playing Mr. Detective and ask "Did the pigs, chickens, and worms suffer before they got turned into this sausage?" or "Were the workers at least age 18 when they made these clothes?" whenever I go shopping. I'm no superhero, I'm no detective, I'm just a simple guy who refuses to buy stuff made expensive just because they have some foreign brand name slapped on them.

Nobody is forced to work for Walmart. Before you sign up for any job, they tell you how much you'll get paid and all the terms. In the end, it's up to you whether or not you'll take what they offer or not. If you sign up for it, then you can't really complain. If you don't like the pay, then just quit. Maybe if a lot of employees quit, they'd get the message that "Oh, we're not paying them enough!". Doing it while in the middle of a job is very unprofessional. It's like taking the business hostage just because all of a sudden, you don't like what you signed up for. Now if they do something that's not part of the contract you signed and it's affecting you negatively, then that's the time to protest or even sue them.

Most of the things that can be bought from Walmart are just the same if you were to buy them from other shops. For example, clothes, shoes, computer games, food. The clothes are not expensive Versace or whatever brand named luxury fashion, but they provide comfort. The shoes they sell provide the right amount of protection and comfort as well. Toys, computer games, and others offer the same thing. Food like "Great Value" branded meatballs, fish, chicken, burgers, and others taste the same as the more expensive ones. They even have their own cheese puff brand and it tastes just as good as Cheetos. The only time when food or other products being sold by Walmart would pale in comparison to the branded stuff is when the big name items use different ingredients that are more expensive or distinct. For example, although the "Great Value" meatballs are tasty enough (subjective), it still will never compare to the meatballs made by upscale Italian restaurants because they can use the best and most expensive ingredients.

People say "You get what you pay for!", but when I compare Walmart to more expensive stores, the only difference I see is the lack of big time brand names at Walmart. Everything else is just as good as the more expensive versions or at least functional and serviceable enough. So what if the piece of clothing you bought from Walmart doesn't have the Versace logo on it? So what if the shoes you bought aren't from Nike or Adidas? So what if the cheese puffs you bought aren't called Cheetos? Well, it's up to people to decide for themselves: Pay for the brand name or pay less for the same thing without the brand name.
 
2012-11-21 04:23:08 AM  

j0ndas: Minimum wage was never intended to support a family. It was introduced by unions as a way to get rid of the cheap labor that was driving down their wages. Someone worth $7 an hour isn't going to be hired under an $8 an hour minimum wage, even if normally it might make good sense to hire two unskilled people at $7 rather than one skilled person at $15. The end result is that the poor and uneducated can't get jobs and end up in gangs or on welfare instead, while union employees are being paid 20-30% more than they're actually worth and US industry is going broke or moving overseas.


I'm very curious about this whole "worth" thing you are speaking of. You spoke of a person "worth" $7/hour.

There are two ways of looking at this. One, a person is of so little skill that their work only adds $7/hr to the company's net worth. This is the "supply side" way of looking at it.

The other way of looking at it is that you need particular work done that, like it or not, requires a human being to perform. This job simply cannot be completely automated with current technology. You need a person to make judgements based on available data, if it is something so simple as "put these boxes here until the pallet is full, then put the remaining boxes here", or so complex as "take this sheet and fill these orders from all around the warehouse, box them and package them correctly and place the correct address label on each one, then weigh each and affix the appropriate tags."

So, since you don't just need a human, you need that human to be alive, it would logically follow that that human must be paid enough money that he or she can purchase adequate food and shelter, and possibly medical treatment as needed. If you are asking a human to give up at least 9, but actually 10-11 hours per day (8-hr shift plus 1 hr. break plus 1 hr. getting ready and 1/2 hour each way for commuting) for five days per week. This is a good bit of someone's time, and it follows that they deserve fair compensation for it.

Wal-Mart relies on the taxpayers to fund their shortcomings in the form of food stamps and WIC and Medicaid. They do not fairly compensate their employees for their work, and they expect employees to do such idiotic things as show up to work at 10PM but not clock in until 11:55 because they kindly stayed an hour over twice earlier in the week at the request of management and if they clocked in at 10, they would get overtime. But they are also only considered a "part-time" employee, as their position is a "part-time" position, no matter that they are always scheduled 40 hrs, so they are not eligible for benefits.
 
2012-11-21 04:33:33 AM  

GreenSun: Nobody is forced to work for Walmart. Before you sign up for any job, they tell you how much you'll get paid and all the terms. In the end, it's up to you whether or not you'll take what they offer or not. If you sign up for it, then you can't really complain


See, this is what so many people actually believe, but it is simply not true. No one has stuck a gun to my sister's head and "forced" her to work at Wal-Mart. It's simply pretty much the only job available in this town, because since Wal-Mart put in, several other small businesses went out of business.

And yes, my sister was given "terms" of her employment. Terms including "if you work 32+ hours per week, you are a full-time employee and you get benefits." Terms including "if you work more than your scheduled shift at the request of management, you will receive time-and-a-half overtime. Terms including "you will not be required to show up at work without being on the clock."

Don't act like you know more than other people about something like this. Wal-Mart is not honoring their own agreements, and this is why most of the employees are upset. They have every right to be. Wal-Mart executive management knows that their employees are dependent on their jobs and can't "just quit". They know how much of an upheaval it is to an entire family's schedule if Mom quits and since the family has only one car and Mom suddenly is working at a different time they have to make new arrangements to get the kids to school.

Wal-Mart takes advantage of people in these kinds of situations, and makes craploads of money off of them. I'm sorry, but whatever line you've been fed about Wal-Mart employees is a bunch of bull, and if you would make a stab at a little bit of empathy, you might understand things a bit better and not sound so arrogant and uninformed.
 
2012-11-21 04:58:21 AM  

hubiestubert: Again, for all the folks who have a bug up their tochises about unions, I ask this:

Do you support Chambers of Commerce? Do you support industry associations? Do you support lobbying by industries? Do you support business owners freedom to call upon their Congresscritters?

If you do, then by extension, you should be supporting unions doing EXACTLY the same thing. Freedom of association. Freedom to pursue redress and file suit. Freedom to negotiate through intermediaries who know the law and who represent your interests. THAT is what unions do. They are a collective bargaining unit, representing a group of folks. Much like industry lobbying, and much like industry associations looking out for the interests of their constituent businesses.

Nothing more. And nothing less. If you support the right of owners to discuss with one another how their industries should proceed, then you should likewise be supporting the right of workers to do the same. Especially since the freedom of association is the freedom to assemble and the freedom to seek redress, and has been upheld by the Supreme Court already. If you like the Constitution, and you like the freedom of speech, and the freedom to assemble, then you should be likewise be in support of unions representing the interests of laborers who are busy working for a living.


Well put Hubie.
 
2012-11-21 05:07:13 AM  

Vector R: Ned Resnikoff at MSNBC flagged a leaked internal document (first obtained by HuffPo) that revealed that base pay at Walmart's Sam's Place stores can be as low as $8 an hour (or $16,000 per year), with wage increases in increments as low as 20 or 40 cents per hour.

Long ago and far away, I was one of those flogged and underpaid drones (employee unit #XJ43061, if you must know). I started out at $8 an hour FT, and that made for a marginally acceptable living with someone else around to share expenses with. A few months in, while chatting with a sweetheart in softlines whose only fault was a massive overbite and a harsh hand dealt from time and poverty. It turned out she'd been there a number of years, and her pay wasn't even equal to mine.

As someone who has BT;DT - yes, the working conditions ARE that bad. It's better than nothing, but it's so degrading and soul-crushing, and is the sort of job that just keeps you awake at night long after you've thrown that farking vest somewhere out of sight. /CSB

/Walmart was so bad I started smoking
//Good luck, striking workers!
///Fark Black Friday


My wife worked at Walmart for 13 years, and when she left she was making just over $13/hr. She watched guys who worked there less time, do the same job and make more than her, even though her reviews were better and she never missed work. We also have no children, so they couldn't use the old "Guys get more because they don't go out on Maternity leave"-excuse.

Walmart is a soul-crushing, heartless, divisive and exploitative corporate entity, and they need to take better care of their employees. Period. We've getting by without my wife's income for over a year now, and while it would be nice to have more money in the bank, I'd prefer to scrape by than have her work for Walmart ever again.
 
2012-11-21 05:25:08 AM  
CSB time.
I worked a month and a half seasonal position at Wal-Mart while I was attending college part-time. I had evening classes on Tuesday and Thursday, and not only was that listed on my application, but I brought it up again in the interview just to be certain. I was hired, and did my job well. The second week, I was scheduled to work evenings on both Tuesday and Thursday. I spoke with the personnel manager who was in charge of the scheduling, and she told me that there was nothing she could do about it. I spoke to the store manager, and within half an hour my schedule was changed. The next week rolls around, and I'm AGAIN scheduled on Tuesday and Thursday evening. I spoke to the personnel manager again, and she told me she couldn't fix it. I spoke to the store manager, and my schedule was fixed again. Finally after that, I stopped being scheduled on nights I couldn't work, but was passed over for a permanent hiring for a guy who royally screwed up changing a display (he put more expensive televisions there before changing the price, so 3 tvs were sold at $150 that should have cost $250). Fast forward 7 years, and I'm out of the Air Force. It's harder finding a job than I expected, so I apply at Wal-Mart to get at least some income while I hunt for a better opportunity. I get turned down even though I'm willing to work for the normal starting pay with wide open availability. I ask a friend who works management at a store in a different area to check things out for me, and it turns out the fat whore of a personnel manager had left a note in my employee profile that I was a trouble-maker and unreliable.
/CSB
 
2012-11-21 05:25:31 AM  
One day I'll see if any of the fox/rush/boortz fanboys can explain in rational terms why it's OK for Fred Phelps to spew his hate speech on first amendment grounds, but when it's a union suddenly it's a perfectly legitimate tactic for the courts to restrict free speech & assembly rights. Til then all I hear is a constant stream of 'job creator' derp
 
2012-11-21 05:27:28 AM  
There's no fair assesment of wages. You think the person working at Walmart doesn't work as hard as someone doing higher paying blue collar labor like construction or factory work? Of course they do and they put up with just as much misery as the other jobs that pay twice as much or more. There's just a norm that's been set up by who knows what that says these people over here should get pay less than those people over there even though they're both doing just regular run-of-the-mill non-skilled labor. The irony is that it's probably Walmart that sets the standard for other big chain businesses.

It's just simply putting profits before eveything and seeing anything that dips into the profits as a threat and it will probably be this countries undoing considering in the last 2-3 years poeople have started to become disenfranchised with the way this country is ran by corperations that exploit and conive their way into bigger and bigger profits every year. Try to imagine what it would be like 10 or 20 years down the road seeing how things have escalated in just the last 5 years.
 
2012-11-21 05:34:55 AM  

Edward Rooney Dean of Students: I'm confused; nowhere in the article does it explain that these people were FORCED to take these jobs without knowing what the wage was. I men, that had to be case, right? Otherwise...


You're probably also the same guy who insists that nobody can get a job in today's job market, thanks to Obama, right?
 
2012-11-21 05:46:30 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: What's wrong with the executives earning 1% less if it means your lowest paid staff member earns a living wage?


Well, according to someone in my Facebook feed...

Note: All of this was from a discussion about how "Papa" John could pay for health insurance for all of his employees for less than 1% of his profits.

"Ok, so lets take all the money you have and give it to a bum on the street, because you dont need it. And your computer, phone, and any other luxuries you have."

and...

"The people that work there, work there of their own free will. The get what they are contracted for. If they want a better life then they need to work towards a future that provides them the things they want of their own hard work. These kind of jobs are at the low end of the pay scale for a reason. The labor rate and benefits they provide are equal to the skill level that is required to do it."

and...

"People need to grow up and take responsibility for their actions and their lives. If they want a better job with better pay and benefits they need to get off their ass and work hard to that end! That might require some sacrifice like going to school and getting an education in a skill that is marketable to provide a better life!"

There was of course no answer when questioned about where the time and money for school would come from when the person is working 50+ hours a week and still counting pennies at the end of the month. Nor was there a response regarding what happens when everyone has a "marketable skill" and nobody wants to clean toilets or collect garbage anymore.

In answer to "Would you pay 15 cents more for a pizza if it meant that the workers who made and delivered that pizza could have health insurance?"...

"Would I pay .15 cents more, I dont know. I buy what I like at the lowest cost. It is the same reason I shop at Wal-mart. The founders of Papa John's deserve what they earned!"

Then he just quoted the entire text of the About page on the Papa John's website. Still not sure what was the point of that quote.
 
2012-11-21 05:48:38 AM  

p51d007: Since this is a somewhat liberal site, I'm sure to get flamed by this, but anyway....

People who work for Walmart, Target, or any other RETAIL store....well, suck it up!
You are working a RETAIL store! If people didn't come into those stores on Thanksgiving,
or 4am on black Friday, you would be able to stay home. The fault isn't the retailer, it
is the lazy a&& consumer who wants (or thinks they will get) a bargain.
If they didn't show up, the store wouldn't be open!
Also, yes, the economy is (if you live in real-ville) DOWN THE TOILET, so that might be
the reason you are working a low wage or minimum wage job. Now, if you are the countless
drones that are working low/minimum wage jobs, and you are at least in your 20's, you have
to stop and have someone toss a bucket of ice water in your face. Why? Because you
need to evaluate your life. How did you screw up your life, that you are only QUALIFIED to
be a minimum wage employee with little or NO skills in anything other than "do you want
fries with that". As the judge in Caddyshack said "the world needs ditch diggers".
When you were in high school, I'll just bet you were uber cool, skipping school, getting high
daily, girls falling all over you, getting kicked out of school for fighting....yeah, how cool are
you now? The rest of us, STUDIED, went to college (I paid my own way), and got a good
job, that allows us the freedom of having nights, holidays & weekends off!
So, suck it up, and take it in the butt....you have no one to complain to, but yourself!


i860.photobucket.com

He used the term "Real-ville". Dead give away he is a limbaugh ditto head Get him boys!
 
2012-11-21 05:51:32 AM  

Richard Johnson: I do my best to stay the hell out of WallyWorld as I can. I don't think that I have been inside one in 3 years.


It was actually the best benefit of my career spawning promotion 4 1/2 years ago. Walmart is only a 'We couldn't find it anywhere else' thing now. The only thing we've consistently bought at Walmart was diapers and pullups for my 4 year old because the name brands are absolutely ridiculous in pricing, and sometimes aren't as good as the crappy brand at WalMart, which is contrary to everything else about their products. We used to go 3 or 4 times a week when we were on a shoestring. Now it's a couple of weeks between visits for my wife, and moths for myself. Once my daughter is out of pullups, I plan to almost never go there.
 
2012-11-21 05:56:41 AM  

InflamedGonads: He used the term "Real-ville". Dead give away he is a limbaugh ditto head Get him boys!


I'm plonking the @#$%.
 
2012-11-21 05:58:52 AM  

GreenSun: Most of the things that can be bought from Walmart are just the same if you were to buy them from other shops. For example, clothes, shoes, computer games, food.


Except that WalMart has contracts with manufacturers to sell lower quality versions of their products at WalMart. When I used to buy underwear and socks there, I saw it all the time. UNderwear would wear out in no time, the socks a little longer, and this was with the same brands I buy elsewhere. Since I stopped going to WalMart, the shelf life of these thing shas at least doubled. I would also have the tag fall off of my underwear, revealing another tag underneath with a totally different materials list on it. A shaittier combination of rayon and cotton, or whatever underwear is made out of. This seems to be so that when you bought it, it would appear to be made of better materials, but it was also technically stil labeled correctly with the actual material count, that one was just buried.

Also, you can check out a documentary called Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Price
. I still haven't gotten around to watching it, but my brother in law has, and he said that it was rather eye-opening.
 
2012-11-21 06:02:39 AM  
I think Wal-Mart gets an inordinate amount of hate most of the time. In this case, they're well-deserving of it.

Let these people enjoy Thanksgiving with their families douchebags, open at 5am if you want on Friday...but give the workers one farking day off.
 
2012-11-21 06:03:54 AM  

MmmmBacon: We've getting by without my wife's income for over a year now, and while it would be nice to have more money in the bank, I'd prefer to scrape by than have her work for Walmart ever again.


Yep. A few times when money has been tight, or when my wife got laid off at the beginning of the recession, before she got a new job, she has entertained the idea of working there for awhile, until we get caught up, or just to make extra money for the holidays, whatever. I got through the scary times and tried to find other ways to make the money work. I just couldn't handle her working there if we were anything but destitute. I'd rather postpone Christmas for 2-3 months, and then make it a small one, than have her work there a week.
 
2012-11-21 06:04:53 AM  

slayer199: I think Wal-Mart gets an inordinate amount of hate most of the time. In this case, they're well-deserving of it.

Let these people enjoy Thanksgiving with their families douchebags, open at 5am if you want on Friday...but give the workers one farking day off.


I dont know, when I worked a crap job, I LOVED working holidays. double pay. its important to poor folks.
 
2012-11-21 06:06:56 AM  
And speaking of that, have you people ever WORKED for a mom and pop retailer? They normally pay worse than walmart, certainly dont have benefits, and cost society money on purchases.

lets not talk about advancement opportunities....

/but hey, lets protect mom and pop from big evil walmart that saves everyone money that they are able to spend -- get this -- IN THE COMMUNITY on other things.
 
2012-11-21 06:08:21 AM  

Jgok: Nor was there a response regarding what happens when everyone has a "marketable skill" and nobody wants to clean toilets or collect garbage anymore.


Of all the stuff that gets brought up in these arguments, THIS is the most overlooked, yet the most important part, IMHO. The few times it DOES get brought up, it's like the entire Internet comes to a screeching halt. I'm waiting for the day that someone answers it, but I know I'll have to wait even longer for someone to even come close to sounding like they've even thought through whatever it is that they're saying.
 
2012-11-21 06:13:17 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: base pay at Walmart's Sam's Place stores can be as low as $8 an hour, with wage increases in increments as low as 20 or 40 cents per hour.

To put it another way, the raises are between 2.5% and 5%, in line with most other industries.


Wow. I just had to reply to this to say what an asshole you are. And you certainly don't represent the average American guy, you blatant troll.

/you got me.
 
2012-11-21 06:16:18 AM  

I sound fat: And speaking of that, have you people ever WORKED for a mom and pop retailer? They normally pay worse than walmart, certainly dont have benefits, and cost society money on purchases.

lets not talk about advancement opportunities....

/but hey, lets protect mom and pop from big evil walmart that saves everyone money that they are able to spend -- get this -- IN THE COMMUNITY on other things.


I've worked in a couple of different fields for small business owners. I got paid well, I enjoyed my bosses, and I actually felt like my health and well being mattered. Show me a WalMart manager who invites employees to their house for Christmas, hell show me a WalMart that has a Christmas party where the employees not only get dinner and drink but presents form their bosses, and not only that, but presents that actually take the recipient into consideration. My bosses knew me, they cared about me and treated me(And other employees) like family.

Yeah, you get that with WalMart all right...
 
2012-11-21 06:24:15 AM  

madgonad: My niece works at Wal*Mart at the deli counter. She is 30 years old, unmarried, with a two year-old. Why yes, she is on food stamps and Medicaid - why do you ask?


Because your niece is a slut and irresponsibly got knocked up and the baby is probably biracial anyway so it's also a guaranteed leech on our American society as well.

/Spewing the older generation's attitude, sorry.
//I voted republican since '88 until '08.
///Got a girl knocked up in college, we stuck together, made it thanks to social programs like WIC, etc. at the time.
////Now considered to be "middle class small business owner"....still will never forget those frequent moments of "How can I pay for this can of infant formula?!?" And sympathize with those fo through
 
2012-11-21 06:32:33 AM  

p51d007: The rest of us, STUDIED, went to college (I paid my own way), and got a good
job, that allows us the freedom of having nights, holidays & weekends off!


I went to college and had to do a stint in retail after school. I had good grades, studied, and still was one of the drones.

Why? No one was hiring. Not even for entry level jobs. I've even had office work experience and did an internship.

Fun Fact: Not all of the drones are toothless high school drop outs. There are a lot of retail people that did go to college. There are also those who served in the military. They do the job to put food on the table and pay the bills. Many of them (where I worked) tried to not go on food stamps or on assistance. They didn't want to suck on the government teat.
 
2012-11-21 06:33:32 AM  

Mikey1969: Jgok: Nor was there a response regarding what happens when everyone has a "marketable skill" and nobody wants to clean toilets or collect garbage anymore.

Of all the stuff that gets brought up in these arguments, THIS is the most overlooked, yet the most important part, IMHO. The few times it DOES get brought up, it's like the entire Internet comes to a screeching halt. I'm waiting for the day that someone answers it, but I know I'll have to wait even longer for someone to even come close to sounding like they've even thought through whatever it is that they're saying.


Then the offered pay for people willing to do such a task goes up until people start filling these positions. Supply and Demand.

Check out the factory jobs out there. A lot of them pay VERY well. They are also incredibly BORING. That's why certain occupations get paid better than others. They HAVE to offer higher pay to attract people to do it.
 
2012-11-21 06:42:36 AM  

Wretschko: Mikey1969: Jgok: Nor was there a response regarding what happens when everyone has a "marketable skill" and nobody wants to clean toilets or collect garbage anymore.

Of all the stuff that gets brought up in these arguments, THIS is the most overlooked, yet the most important part, IMHO. The few times it DOES get brought up, it's like the entire Internet comes to a screeching halt. I'm waiting for the day that someone answers it, but I know I'll have to wait even longer for someone to even come close to sounding like they've even thought through whatever it is that they're saying.

Then the offered pay for people willing to do such a task goes up until people start filling these positions. Supply and Demand.

Check out the factory jobs out there. A lot of them pay VERY well. They are also incredibly BORING. That's why certain occupations get paid better than others. They HAVE to offer higher pay to attract people to do it.


Or the owners figure out they can have the goods manufactured overseas for pennies on the dollar and even factoring in shipping will still make a bigger profit. Do they give a damn that the people they've put out of work can't afford to feed themselves? Why should they? Their dividends went up a couple pennies per share.
 
2012-11-21 06:52:52 AM  

entitygm: One day I'll see if any of the fox/rush/boortz fanboys can explain in rational terms why it's OK for Fred Phelps to spew his hate speech on first amendment grounds, but when it's a union suddenly it's a perfectly legitimate tactic for the courts to restrict free speech & assembly rights. Til then all I hear is a constant stream of 'job creator' derp


Wish to know the difference? Fred Phelps probably got permission to do so wherever he is. The protesters, if on the Wal-mart parking lot, are violating Wal-Mart policy of No Soliciting. Y'know those Salvation Army guys/gals that stand in front? They get permission. The teabaggers? They got permission. OWS? They didn't get permission in a lot of areas (I recall some did, and overstayed). These protests? No permission. My guess is if that Wal-Mart grows a back bone, the protesters will at least be forcibly removed, and at worst arrested.
 
2012-11-21 07:10:32 AM  

p51d007: The rest of us, STUDIED, went to college (I paid my own way), and got a good
job, that allows us the freedom of having nights, holidays & weekends off!
So, suck it up, and take it in the butt....you have no one to complain to, but yourself!


Interesting implication that education automatically equates to a non-retail job, especially considering I received my IB diploma with high marks in all subjects, I received my 4 year college diploma (3.71 GPA) and completed a two-year certificate program in only one year (3.7 GPA), and had 5+ years of experience in my field (with excellent annual reviews). And yet, when the economy tanked, I was laid off and couldn't find any job for a year within the state in which I resided. In fact, I didn't receive a single call or email with an invitation to an interview for three months and I was sending out anywhere from 10-30 applications A DAY. I finally did find a job, but that required moving to another state. That job was a full-time retail position.

TL;DR - highly educated persons do work in hourly retail positions because, sometimes, it's the only work available. Their choices are 'menial' hourly jobs or starving/facing eviction/etc.
 
2012-11-21 07:16:40 AM  

Edward Rooney Dean of Students: I'm confused; nowhere in the article does it explain that these people were FORCED to take these jobs without knowing what the wage was. I men, that had to be case, right? Otherwise...


They want the job they feel entitled to instead of the job they agreed to. Pretty standard really.
 
2012-11-21 07:17:15 AM  

aevorea: p51d007: The rest of us, STUDIED, went to college (I paid my own way), and got a good
job, that allows us the freedom of having nights, holidays & weekends off!
So, suck it up, and take it in the butt....you have no one to complain to, but yourself!

Interesting implication that education automatically equates to a non-retail job, especially considering I received my IB diploma with high marks in all subjects, I received my 4 year college diploma (3.71 GPA) and completed a two-year certificate program in only one year (3.7 GPA), and had 5+ years of experience in my field (with excellent annual reviews). And yet, when the economy tanked, I was laid off and couldn't find any job for a year within the state in which I resided. In fact, I didn't receive a single call or email with an invitation to an interview for three months and I was sending out anywhere from 10-30 applications A DAY. I finally did find a job, but that required moving to another state. That job was a full-time retail position.

TL;DR - highly educated persons do work in hourly retail positions because, sometimes, it's the only work available. Their choices are 'menial' hourly jobs or starving/facing eviction/etc.


I failed to mention that those weekends and holidays that were earned? Those actually came about because of union members that fought for them decades ago. But hey, you hit that homerun from third base so you get a nice participation trophy.
 
2012-11-21 07:21:29 AM  

JosephFinn: AverageAmericanGuy: base pay at Walmart's Sam's Place stores can be as low as $8 an hour, with wage increases in increments as low as 20 or 40 cents per hour.

To put it another way, the raises are between 2.5% and 5%, in line with most other industries.

Which I'm sure is a delight to the people at WalMart working poverty-level wages with no insurance coverage & forced and unpaid overtime. But hey, 5% of almost nothing!


More than they pay at Target. I think TFA keeps forgetting who it is yelling about. That is why it is the lowest common denominator. I don't shop at Wal-Mart (not bc I am a snob-Ann Arbor is a town of snobs lol) but I am pretty much meh at this point. Take it up with the gubment, who still thinks we live in 1960 and should somehow make less. Best of luck to them, though, and it would be great if they got a wage increase as it would hopefully compel others to do so as well.
 
2012-11-21 07:31:58 AM  
I also have a Bachelors degree in psychology, a Masters degree in social work, AND my social work professional license in NY state. Someone in my position should be working somewhere with a starting salary of 40k.

Jadedgrl: I also have a Bachelors degree in psychology, a Masters degree in social work, AND my social work professional license in NY state.


Since they skipped the economic development part of your studies and you seem to be under the impression that skill set is worth more than $10 an hour, I would like to offer you employment as a fluffer on my new film. You will learn a valuable lesson in self worth. Hell, if you are efficient i might even retain your services personally.
 
2012-11-21 07:33:29 AM  

sinschild: They want the job they feel entitled to instead of the job they agreed to. Pretty standard really.


Actually, you're rather misinformed if you believe this. I don't know of any who agreed to work 40 hours a week as a "part-time" employee with no benefits. I don't know of any who agreed to come in at their scheduled time and then sit for two hours outside in the parking lot in order that they not get overtime after being asked by management to stay late and help out a couple of times earlier in the week. I don't know of any of them that agreed to work "Security" on Thanksgiving Day, outside of their normally scheduled shift.

Pretty standard, really.
 
2012-11-21 07:35:12 AM  

kimmygibblershomework: Take it up with the gubment, who still thinks we live in 1960 and should somehow make less.


Well, when the corporations are the ones buying the gubment through their highly paid lobbyists, it just doesn't work that way.
 
2012-11-21 07:37:38 AM  

sinschild: Since they skipped the economic development part of your studies and you seem to be under the impression that skill set is worth more than $10 an hour, I would like to offer you employment as a fluffer on my new film.


Define "worth". I see several people using it in this thread, but I've yet to see anyone define it in the way that they think they are using it.
 
2012-11-21 07:38:01 AM  

ox45tallboy: sinschild: They want the job they feel entitled to instead of the job they agreed to. Pretty standard really.

Actually, you're rather misinformed if you believe this. I don't know of any who agreed to work 40 hours a week as a "part-time" employee with no benefits. I don't know of any who agreed to come in at their scheduled time and then sit for two hours outside in the parking lot in order that they not get overtime after being asked by management to stay late and help out a couple of times earlier in the week. I don't know of any of them that agreed to work "Security" on Thanksgiving Day, outside of their normally scheduled shift.

Pretty standard, really.


Since they had to know the store is open 24hrs a day and that there would need to be extra help on T'day/Blackfriday who do they think would be working those shifts?
 
2012-11-21 07:39:35 AM  
Jesus Christ with the Derp this morning.
 
2012-11-21 07:39:46 AM  
My thoughts:

If Walmart didn't want unions in thier stores all they had to do was treat their employees like human farking beings. That doesn't necessarily mean paying everyone $20 an hour (I've been on well-paying soul crushing jobs). It means not forcing people to work unpaid OT and middle management that has a farking clue how to treat its employees. Most of the workers (at least here in the South) would have been ok with the shiatty pay (with room for raises and advancement) if they where just treated fairly and civil.

Summoner101:

How about they get paid enough so they don't soak up welfare, SNAP, and Medicaid benefits?


Bears repeating. It seems logical to me. How they hell Walmart gets away with this and STILL get tax breaks is beyond me. No, they are not under any obligation to offer health care to thier employees. But if I where a city or county looking into letting Walmart open in my community with the hope that it will take some of the citizens off the dole, I'd think long and hard about forking over a tax break that only cost me more in the long run.

And let these poor dumb bastards break bread with their families on Thanksgiving! One farking day won't break Walmart! Is there no end to how much farking over the Waltons will do to turn a buck? Politics and religion aside, Chic-fil-A is closed one day a week and makes a metric ass ton of money. So you're telling me Walmart can't manage to close for one extra day a YEAR?
 
2012-11-21 07:39:55 AM  
I'm generally not a fan of unions. I think that most of them do only what's best for the union and not for the workers. But, I sincerely hope that this shuts Wal-Mart down hard. If the workers want to unionize and want to bargain for decent pay and decent conditions, that is their right. I haven't been in one of their wretched stores for years and this crap just reinforces my distaste for their business practices.
 
2012-11-21 07:44:31 AM  

Wretschko: Mikey1969: Jgok: Nor was there a response regarding what happens when everyone has a "marketable skill" and nobody wants to clean toilets or collect garbage anymore.

Of all the stuff that gets brought up in these arguments, THIS is the most overlooked, yet the most important part, IMHO. The few times it DOES get brought up, it's like the entire Internet comes to a screeching halt. I'm waiting for the day that someone answers it, but I know I'll have to wait even longer for someone to even come close to sounding like they've even thought through whatever it is that they're saying.

Then the offered pay for people willing to do such a task goes up until people start filling these positions. Supply and Demand.

Check out the factory jobs out there. A lot of them pay VERY well. They are also incredibly BORING. That's why certain occupations get paid better than others. They HAVE to offer higher pay to attract people to do it.


This was actually one of the original factors for why Ford paid such a good wage. Henry Frod found that work on an assembly line was so boring that people would just up and walk off the line. He found that in the long run it was cheaper to pay the higher wage to avoid both stopping the line and having to train more people who would just end up walking away. But what did Henry Ford know about business, right?
 
2012-11-21 07:46:18 AM  

CujoQuarrel: Since they had to know the store is open 24hrs a day and that there would need to be extra help on T'day/Blackfriday who do they think would be working those shifts?


Well, my sister figured she'd be working. She just didn't figure she would be tagged for "security", told that she was supposed to "keep people from cutting in line and fighting and stuff" but given no training or even policy statements as to how she should go about doing this. She also did not expect to be scheduled for 45 hours, as management is rather insistent that she is a "part-time" employee and thus not eligible for benefits although she has been scheduled less than 40 hours only twice in the past ten months. She also figured she might get some overtime or holiday pay, but as it turns out, management is supposed to send people home early on other shifts in order to prevent overtime, and get everyone else to "pitch in" and cover the labor shortage on those shifts.

Don't try to excuse Wal-Mart's labor policies. You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
 
2012-11-21 07:47:27 AM  
Only physical store I will shop at is Walmart now.
Rest will be online.

Fakr you, peons. Don't like working at Walmart? Get a better job, morons.
 
2012-11-21 07:49:14 AM  

teeny: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: KarmicDisaster: Are we taking Black Friday bets?
Put me down for
6 tramplings
2 deaths
3 stabbins
10 punchins

I'm in with at least one person losing an eye.

I'll add a 3 pepper sprayers.


Good thinking. Totally spaced those out. Spray and then grab the stuff and get in line.
 
2012-11-21 07:51:17 AM  

ox45tallboy: CujoQuarrel: Since they had to know the store is open 24hrs a day and that there would need to be extra help on T'day/Blackfriday who do they think would be working those shifts?

Well, my sister figured she'd be working. She just didn't figure she would be tagged for "security", told that she was supposed to "keep people from cutting in line and fighting and stuff" but given no training or even policy statements as to how she should go about doing this. She also did not expect to be scheduled for 45 hours, as management is rather insistent that she is a "part-time" employee and thus not eligible for benefits although she has been scheduled less than 40 hours only twice in the past ten months. She also figured she might get some overtime or holiday pay, but as it turns out, management is supposed to send people home early on other shifts in order to prevent overtime, and get everyone else to "pitch in" and cover the labor shortage on those shifts.

Don't try to excuse Wal-Mart's labor policies. You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.


Which 'Facts' am I making up

But does she at least get a Taser? Now that would be fun.

"I'm sorry ma'am but you cut line. Zaaappppp!!!!!!
 
2012-11-21 07:56:09 AM  
cdn.thesandtrap.com

28.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-11-21 08:00:14 AM  

CujoQuarrel: ox45tallboy: CujoQuarrel: Since they had to know the store is open 24hrs a day and that there would need to be extra help on T'day/Blackfriday who do they think would be working those shifts?

Well, my sister figured she'd be working. She just didn't figure she would be tagged for "security", told that she was supposed to "keep people from cutting in line and fighting and stuff" but given no training or even policy statements as to how she should go about doing this. She also did not expect to be scheduled for 45 hours, as management is rather insistent that she is a "part-time" employee and thus not eligible for benefits although she has been scheduled less than 40 hours only twice in the past ten months. She also figured she might get some overtime or holiday pay, but as it turns out, management is supposed to send people home early on other shifts in order to prevent overtime, and get everyone else to "pitch in" and cover the labor shortage on those shifts.

Don't try to excuse Wal-Mart's labor policies. You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

Which 'Facts' am I making up

But does she at least get a Taser? Now that would be fun.

"I'm sorry ma'am but you cut line. Zaaappppp!!!!!!


Wal-Mart considers the employees expendable here. If the employee does anything at all, even touches a customer as the customer is punching them, they will be fired. They probably give them no training on purpose so that they can take no liability. One heck of a sucky job, and I'm tired of subsidizing the WalMart employees with my tax dollars to the tune of 2 billion per year.
 
2012-11-21 08:04:46 AM  
CONSUME
 
2012-11-21 08:12:40 AM  

KarmicDisaster: Wal-Mart considers the employees expendable here. If the employee does anything at all, even touches a customer as the customer is punching them, they will be fired. They probably give them no training on purpose so that they can take no liability. One heck of a sucky job, and I'm tired of subsidizing the WalMart employees with my tax dollars to the tune of 2 billion per year.


Thank you. Much better put than what I was about to say.
 
2012-11-21 08:22:17 AM  

Summoner101: Too Pretty For Prison: AverageAmericanGuy: base pay at Walmart's Sam's Place stores can be as low as $8 an hour, with wage increases in increments as low as 20 or 40 cents per hour.

To put it another way, the raises are between 2.5% and 5%, in line with most other industries.

but, but, but that's not FAIR! Sure, I have no skills and can only stack boxes on a shelf - but I'm ENTITLED to have a 65" TV, a new car, a large house, every available cable channel, and a cell phone for my 6 year old. I DEMAND you pay me more!!!

How about they get paid enough so they don't soak up welfare, SNAP, and Medicaid benefits?


Yeah right, like any of you libtards give a shiat about the cost of welfare programs.
 
2012-11-21 08:26:47 AM  

Gentoolive: Yeah right, like any of you libtards give a shiat about the cost of welfare programs.


They take money away from all the government-funded abortions.
 
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