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(Salon)   The Complete Idiot's Guide to Wal-Mart's Black Friday Showdown, which pits low-wage workers against greedy management and owners   (salon.com) divider line 370
    More: PSA, Wal-Mart, picket lines, forced labour, North Jersey, unfair labor practice, cover letters  
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12435 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Nov 2012 at 10:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-20 11:30:56 PM

KarmicDisaster: Are we taking Black Friday bets?
Put me down for
6 tramplings
2 deaths
3 stabbins
10 punchins


And a partridge in a pear tree!
 
2012-11-20 11:31:57 PM
Does anyone have the basic run-down on how Obamacare (there, I'm being nice) will affect WM and its employees? Appreciate info/opinions.
 
2012-11-20 11:33:07 PM
I predict complaints of Walmart workers after they end up in the united food and commercial workers' union. They are complaining about 20 and 40 cent an hour raises? That's exactly what they'll get as union employees. Except there won't be any by-passing the time in job stuff. Oh and they will have to pay union entrance fees and union dues and so on and so forth. They'll be lucky to be above minimum wage after their union obligations.

Of course the union officers will get richer and there's nothing more important than that for a union.

I'll just sit back and watch the show.
 
2012-11-20 11:33:31 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: Such as?


Unless you want to give me a TotalFark subscription, I'm not looking up anything else tonight. Sorry.
 
2012-11-20 11:34:15 PM
Again, for all the folks who have a bug up their tochises about unions, I ask this:

Do you support Chambers of Commerce? Do you support industry associations? Do you support lobbying by industries? Do you support business owners freedom to call upon their Congresscritters?

If you do, then by extension, you should be supporting unions doing EXACTLY the same thing. Freedom of association. Freedom to pursue redress and file suit. Freedom to negotiate through intermediaries who know the law and who represent your interests. THAT is what unions do. They are a collective bargaining unit, representing a group of folks. Much like industry lobbying, and much like industry associations looking out for the interests of their constituent businesses.

Nothing more. And nothing less. If you support the right of owners to discuss with one another how their industries should proceed, then you should likewise be supporting the right of workers to do the same. Especially since the freedom of association is the freedom to assemble and the freedom to seek redress, and has been upheld by the Supreme Court already. If you like the Constitution, and you like the freedom of speech, and the freedom to assemble, then you should be likewise be in support of unions representing the interests of laborers who are busy working for a living.
 
2012-11-20 11:35:15 PM
ZERO skilled labor striking in a bad economy with a huge pool of unemployed? ... This is why they work at walmart
 
2012-11-20 11:35:38 PM

smitty04: It is another Union trying to bleed poor unskilled workers of their union dues. Ask the Hostess how much their union has done for them.


Eh, try to strike from a company that has claimed Bankruptcy 3 times in the last 10 years and they are bound to go under for good. My hope is that the next company that buys the brand makes some decent food for once.
 
2012-11-20 11:35:40 PM

Coelacanth: AverageAmericanGuy: Such as?

Unless you want to give me a TotalFark subscription, I'm not looking up anything else tonight. Sorry.


It's called backing your own argument.
 
2012-11-20 11:35:50 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: diaphoresis: My niece loves her job.. 8a-4p Sun-Thu. You must mean a different Wal-Mart

Min Wage isn't bad when you don't have to take shiat far above your pay grade. I've seen enough of the good and the bad to know that your niece could be perfectly happy and her store might be a great place to work even for peanuts, and that others put you through so much shiat that no amount of money would ever justify it.

My wife is a pharmacy tech for Walgreens. She's worked at many of them as I've moved around for work. Some are great, and she'll have a set schedule of roughly the same time every day, every week and knows it won't change for the next four months. Others she has to call the store on Monday because the manager hasn't posted a schedule, has her closing, then opening, then opening again, then a mid shift, a day off, and a closing, and it varies every week with no rhyme or reason.


That's about crap... I guess people put up with a lot of garbage just to keep a job. In this economy it's an employer's market... I'll tell my niece to be thankful for such a smooth work schedule.
 
2012-11-20 11:36:17 PM

Nutsac_Jim: tell them you cant work those hours because you have another job. Walmart never scheduled me
at times I said I wasnt available.


All depends on how accommodating your employer is and how they go about accommodating. You might get lucky and never get scheduled during that time, but on the other hand you might never get scheduled other times to make up for it. If you can't get enough hours to make it worthwhile, why work there?

When I worked for a Walgreens, my manager flat out told me he couldn't accommodate my schedule around a second job because it wouldn't be fair to the other workers.
 
2012-11-20 11:37:58 PM
It will be a disaster for the union, the workers, and unionization in general. They'll be lucky if 1% of Wal-mart employees get involved at all, and those that do will be fired for some excuse or be hassled and mistreated until they quit. I'm increasingly convinced UFCW is a plot to destroy the last vestiges of unionization and hijack the attention of activists.
 
2012-11-20 11:38:36 PM

KarmicDisaster: Are we taking Black Friday bets?
Put me down for
6 tramplings
2 deaths
3 stabbins
10 punchins


That version of The Twelve Days of Christmas is all messed up.
 
2012-11-20 11:38:54 PM
icepriestess
Eh, try to strike from a company that has claimed Bankruptcy 3 times in the last 10 years

and yet was still able to give their executives 80% pay raises last year
 
2012-11-20 11:39:39 PM
This one is easy.

You have X number of employees scheduled for Y number of Customers.

If X/2 employees show up, you simply start a line outside like a club, when one leaves another can go inside.

At the end of the day, you fire anyone that didn't show up.
 
2012-11-20 11:40:59 PM
Yeah because those workers had no idea what they were getting into when they SIGNED THE CONTRACT as they were hired by WalMart. I feel so terrible for those poor, duped bastards that wanted nothing more than 20 dollars an hour for doing a job that is worth around 6 dollars an hour. Seriously, my heart is bleeding for the people who got employed, signed a contract that clearly states what the expectations of the job were, and decided to fark off in school instead of actually trying to learn something.

Somewhere a fiddle is playing....
 
2012-11-20 11:41:11 PM

Nutsac_Jim: Why doesn't the union just open up its own wal-mart competitor


It's up to some other party to build the business.

I feel for these people though and support their effort to make things better for themselves. Hopefully it doesnt blow up in their face.

I dont feel for the kids who are just learning how to show up at a job on time and make enough for their phone and the occassional dime bag, but the older ones who arent employable elsewhere.

I dont know what to tell them other than you got a shiatty hand at birth and possibly made things worse along the way through some of your own actions and now this is your lot in life.

I'd try to pool resources with a friend/friends to rent a home together on a bus-line, have the tubes tied and put a TV antenna on the roof. 

In the mean-time, take all the hours you can stand and make the best of those 20 cent raises.

Good luck.
 
2012-11-20 11:41:30 PM

Hagbardr: KarmicDisaster: Are we taking Black Friday bets?
Put me down for
6 tramplings
2 deaths
3 stabbins
10 punchins

And a partridge in a pear tree!


And some Teen Angst.
 
2012-11-20 11:43:00 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: KarmicDisaster: Are we taking Black Friday bets?
Put me down for
6 tramplings
2 deaths
3 stabbins
10 punchins

I'm in with at least one person losing an eye.


I'll add a 3 pepper sprayers.
 
2012-11-20 11:45:31 PM
I don't have any special skills to increase the value of my labor. But gosh darnit, I want to be paid like I do. Stupid entitled people.

Slutter McGee
 
2012-11-20 11:46:32 PM

gbcinques: FTA,
a Demos study that says that raising the salary of all full-time workers at large retailers to $25,000 per year would lift more than 700,000 people out of poverty, at a cost of only a 1 percent price increase for customers.

Instead of adding the price increase to the customers, why not take it out of the Walton family pay packet. You know who, those five of the top 10 richest Americans.


Just pay your 1% increase and quit blaming others for being successfull.

How come noone ever points out that raising the standard of living only creates inflation as the lowest wage earners will now be able to afford more?

Think of the economy similar to grading on a curve. When we have a lot of poor people, it doesn't take much to make it to a median class to which the pricing of goods will be based. If everyone is median, the curve is shifted upward until prices settle on the new median. At 25000 a year- the lowest payed workers would still be the lowest payed workers- they'd just get to pay more for the inflated goods along with all the rest of us. Rich man charges more in relationship to his costs- gets richer all that quicker.

You can't take a man's wealth through disproportionate taxation- justify it any way you want-- it's still stealing. What you can do is either prevent wealth from moving to quickly into the highest payed earners hands by placing caps on earnings- don't worry about someone stepping up even with those caps in place-- tax derivatives as income if the amount exceeds the recipient's wage income,or mandate that a percentage of one's wealth be circulating within the market place at any given time. You retain wealth by not allowing it to leave our shores, tax the companies hard for taking jobs out of the United States by placing the same tax and tariff burden on their goods as you would any other import, and encourage foreign companies with tax incentives (no import taxes or tariffs) to bring their business to our shores if they are producing the imported goods goods that we normally purchase domestically.
 
2012-11-20 11:48:45 PM
Threads like these are great for getting trolls and goddamn idiots to come out of the woodwork and yell that these selfish thugs chose to work minimum wage instead of getting a $200 an hour job that's just sitting there for them to take and they should be punished for it. They're also great for filling up ignore lists.
 
2012-11-20 11:49:00 PM

sid2112: Yeah because those workers had no idea what they were getting into when they SIGNED THE CONTRACT as they were hired by WalMart. I feel so terrible for those poor, duped bastards that wanted nothing more than 20 dollars an hour for doing a job that is worth around 6 dollars an hour. Seriously, my heart is bleeding for the people who got employed, signed a contract that clearly states what the expectations of the job were, and decided to fark off in school instead of actually trying to learn something.

Somewhere a fiddle is playing....


So what happens when Walmart breaks their end of this grand ole bargain? Tough shiat, they're the employee?
 
2012-11-20 11:49:23 PM

KarmicDisaster: Are we taking Black Friday bets?
Put me down for
6 tramplings
2 deaths
3 stabbins
10 punchins


And a partridge in a pear tree!

What, no shootings?
 
2012-11-20 11:50:23 PM
No but really fark anyone shopping Thanksgiving night. No matter how you feel about this don't support taking the one of two days off that people get to be with their families.
 
2012-11-20 11:51:40 PM

clowncar on fire: How come noone ever points out that raising the standard of living only creates inflation as the lowest wage earners will now be able to afford more?


Because the effect is negligible, especially with the cost/labor ratio we have for companies like Wal-Mart. It will cost consumers something like 1% extra or $12/year to raise workers' wages to $12/hr without significantly affecting Wal-Mart's bottom line.

There's already a well written article in the politics tab about it.
Link
 
2012-11-20 11:51:50 PM
blogs-images.forbes.com
 
2012-11-20 11:57:16 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: Nutsac_Jim: tell them you cant work those hours because you have another job. Walmart never scheduled me
at times I said I wasnt available.

All depends on how accommodating your employer is and how they go about accommodating. You might get lucky and never get scheduled during that time, but on the other hand you might never get scheduled other times to make up for it. If you can't get enough hours to make it worthwhile, why work there?

When I worked for a Walgreens, my manager flat out told me he couldn't accommodate my schedule around a second job because it wouldn't be fair to the other workers.


You divide your day into three 8 hour blocks- that may include weekends. you get a job during block a (dayshift) making it clear you will only be available during block a. Now get a second job, making it clear that you will only be available during blocks b or c. Never will there be a conflict in your schedule.
 
2012-11-20 11:59:50 PM

Nutsac_Jim: Why doesn't the union just open up its own wal-mart competitor and pay everyone 25,000 per year.
I'm sure they could get nice discounts from suppliers that are union shops. They wont even need that 1% price increase. But that 1% more, plenty of people will go there instead.
Then, they can drive wal-mart out of business.


Virtually impossible. Walmart has all their suppliers over a barrel. Walmart is so much of their business they basically get to force suppliers to whatever price point and conditions Walmart demands.

Here's the story of one supplier who said no to Walmart. It "only" cost him 20% of his business.

"every year the price has come down. Every year the content of the product has gone up... at the price I'm selling to you today, I'm not making any money on it. And if we do what you want next year, I'll lose money."
 
2012-11-21 12:03:32 AM

clowncar on fire: You divide your day into three 8 hour blocks- that may include weekends. you get a job during block a (dayshift) making it clear you will only be available during block a. Now get a second job, making it clear that you will only be available during blocks b or c. Never will there be a conflict in your schedule.


And, if you'd read the rest of the comment, there's not always a guarantee that the your employer gives a flying fark about your schedule. Tell him all you like that you're no available during block a, but if that means you get scheduled for even fewer hours during block b, it really doesn't do you much good.
 
2012-11-21 12:04:44 AM
I'm always intrigued by these threads where people claim retail workers have no skills. I'd like to see those same people face down two thousand+ annoyed shoppers over the course of a 10+ hour day and somehow manage to a. help them, and b. not punch them all in the face. That takes something called self control.

Also while not 'major skills', counting/handling money (gasp), understanding stock procedures, understanding and regurgitating store policies to clueless shoppers, product knowledge (especially in electronics and other high tech industries), teamwork, customer service, and to some extent security, are all skills one picks up working long term in retail. A lot of people I've worked with in regular offices would be completely lost in a retail setting.

/six years retail
//not one customer complaint
///switching to IT because I dislike people in general
 
2012-11-21 12:05:27 AM
The only way retail workers will get thanksgiving back is if people will stop being consumer whores, and not shop thanksgiving night or before dawn on black Friday. I don't see that happening.
 
2012-11-21 12:05:36 AM

ladyfortuna: ///switching to IT because I dislike people in general


Retail will do that to you.
 
2012-11-21 12:06:51 AM

Coelacanth: AverageAmericanGuy: Such as?

Unless you want to give me a TotalFark subscription, I'm not looking up anything else tonight. Sorry.


So you're making stuff up for the LOLs? You must have something in mind, right? Otherwise you wouldn't have said it.
 
2012-11-21 12:07:57 AM

PanicMan:
Here's the story of one supplier who said no to Walmart. It "only" cost him 20% of his business.

"every year the price has come down. Every year the content of the product has gone up... at the price I'm selling to you today, I'm not making any money on it. And if we do what you want next year, I'll lose money."


I've read that story a few times. Now that I have a house with a yard, I'm going to buy a Snapper.
 
2012-11-21 12:08:20 AM
Don't forget the greedy customers, who want the lowest prices.
 
2012-11-21 12:08:25 AM
The thing is, if they paid their workers an extra $4 an hour, those workers would turn around and spend 3 of those extra dollars at WalMart. You know they would. They're not going to hoard it in an account in the Cayman Islands, where it does nothing to boost the economy.
 
2012-11-21 12:15:40 AM

clowncar on fire: quit blaming others for being successful.


The Walton children would most likely be average people were it not for their father. Everything they have is because of their parents. They are a dynasty. That's not exactly an achievement worth respect.


clowncar on fire: You can't take a man's wealth through disproportionate taxation- justify it any way you want-- it's still stealing.


Sam Walton was given the environment to start his business and allow it to flourish because of the stability and economic opportunity the United States provided. No matter how boot strap-y he was, he depended on the people, the institutions and the infrastructure around him.

One of the tenants of progressive taxation says that you should pay back into that system if you become exceedingly successful. It isn't just that you can afford it - it is also to ensure that the system continues to be stable and robust, which is critical for the health of your company.

Many people who are worth more than a couple of million dollars who use terms such as "stealing" and "redistribution" when referring to taxes are hoarders. Being part of the 1% club isn't enough. No amount of wealth will every satisfy them. And they will come up with every excuse in the book to justify why they shouldn't give back to the system.

What do you call a man and his company who take and take and refuse to give back?
 
2012-11-21 12:18:06 AM
So, I'm kinda torn on this one... on one hand, I'm for the workers. Thanksgiving Day ought to be sacred enough that everyone has it off, or to some extent. I think most grocery stores are open some, and gas stations... but to force workers to come in at ungodly hours to work a National holiday is ridiculous.

Then, I'm somewhat on the Walmart side, and that is this is business. And if Walmart isn't open, someone else is. And if the workers don't like it, then get a different job that isn't a shiatty retail schlep-chore. I'm sure there are plenty of people that would like that job.
 
2012-11-21 12:19:12 AM

Dinjiin: The Walton children would most likely be average people were it not for their father. Everything they have is because of their parents. They are a dynasty. That's not exactly an achievement worth respect.


I missed the part where they asked you to respect them? If I'm a Walton, I don't give two farks what you think about me. Serious.
 
2012-11-21 12:19:54 AM

rikkitikkitavi: So, I'm kinda torn on this one... on one hand, I'm for the workers. Thanksgiving Day ought to be sacred enough that everyone has it off, or to some extent. I think most grocery stores are open some, and gas stations... but to force workers to come in at ungodly hours to work a National holiday is ridiculous.

Then, I'm somewhat on the Walmart side, and that is this is business. And if Walmart isn't open, someone else is. And if the workers don't like it, then get a different job that isn't a shiatty retail schlep-chore. I'm sure there are plenty of people that would like that job.


You have brought the voice of reason to this thread.
 
2012-11-21 12:23:23 AM
The real giggles come from reading that sites thread. They take themselves seriously!
 
2012-11-21 12:24:27 AM

Summoner101: sid2112: Yeah because those workers had no idea what they were getting into when they SIGNED THE CONTRACT as they were hired by WalMart. I feel so terrible for those poor, duped bastards that wanted nothing more than 20 dollars an hour for doing a job that is worth around 6 dollars an hour. Seriously, my heart is bleeding for the people who got employed, signed a contract that clearly states what the expectations of the job were, and decided to fark off in school instead of actually trying to learn something.

Somewhere a fiddle is playing....

So what happens when Walmart breaks their end of this grand ole bargain? Tough shiat, they're the employee?


Show one instance where they have done that, just one. You won't find it because it never happened!
 
2012-11-21 12:27:02 AM
If you worked as hard at learning a skill as you do demanding more stuff just because, you might be better off.
 
2012-11-21 12:29:23 AM

sid2112: Summoner101: sid2112: Yeah because those workers had no idea what they were getting into when they SIGNED THE CONTRACT as they were hired by WalMart. I feel so terrible for those poor, duped bastards that wanted nothing more than 20 dollars an hour for doing a job that is worth around 6 dollars an hour. Seriously, my heart is bleeding for the people who got employed, signed a contract that clearly states what the expectations of the job were, and decided to fark off in school instead of actually trying to learn something.

Somewhere a fiddle is playing....

So what happens when Walmart breaks their end of this grand ole bargain? Tough shiat, they're the employee?

Show one instance where they have done that, just one. You won't find it because it never happened!


One instance ever? Well that was easy.
 
2012-11-21 12:29:27 AM

PanicMan: Nutsac_Jim: Why doesn't the union just open up its own wal-mart competitor and pay everyone 25,000 per year.
I'm sure they could get nice discounts from suppliers that are union shops. They wont even need that 1% price increase. But that 1% more, plenty of people will go there instead.
Then, they can drive wal-mart out of business.

Virtually impossible. Walmart has all their suppliers over a barrel. Walmart is so much of their business they basically get to force suppliers to whatever price point and conditions Walmart demands.

Here's the story of one supplier who said no to Walmart. It "only" cost him 20% of his business.

"every year the price has come down. Every year the content of the product has gone up... at the price I'm selling to you today, I'm not making any money on it. And if we do what you want next year, I'll lose money."


But it was the 20% that was going to cost him everything.
 
2012-11-21 12:31:17 AM

Summoner101: sid2112: Summoner101: sid2112: Yeah because those workers had no idea what they were getting into when they SIGNED THE CONTRACT as they were hired by WalMart. I feel so terrible for those poor, duped bastards that wanted nothing more than 20 dollars an hour for doing a job that is worth around 6 dollars an hour. Seriously, my heart is bleeding for the people who got employed, signed a contract that clearly states what the expectations of the job were, and decided to fark off in school instead of actually trying to learn something.

Somewhere a fiddle is playing....

So what happens when Walmart breaks their end of this grand ole bargain? Tough shiat, they're the employee?

Show one instance where they have done that, just one. You won't find it because it never happened!

One instance ever? Well that was easy.


You know what? Have fun.
 
2012-11-21 12:32:05 AM

superdude72: They're not going to hoard it in an account in the Cayman Islands, where it does nothing to boost the economy.


The rate of savings and investment for people at or below the median income is close to zero. As soon as a dollar comes in, it goes out. If they have any equity, it is in a home they reside in.

It takes money to make money. Usually, you park it in investments for decades and allow it to grow. You have to have spare income to do that, which means you're talking middle class and above. The higher you go, the more money you see diverted to investments, and the more it grows.

At some point, your investments return more money than you can reasonably spend before you die. These are the people who are supposed to seed trickle-down economics. But how can it trickle down if it is locked for decades? And if the kids have any smarts, they'll take that inheritance and lock it away in investments as well.

I'd bet that if Wal-Mart bumped their starting FTE salary to $25K and made most employees full-time, you'd see an immediate benefit to the economy, especially in economically depressed areas where Wal-Mart stores are more common.
 
2012-11-21 12:32:18 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: JosephFinn: AverageAmericanGuy: base pay at Walmart's Sam's Place stores can be as low as $8 an hour, with wage increases in increments as low as 20 or 40 cents per hour.

To put it another way, the raises are between 2.5% and 5%, in line with most other industries.

Which I'm sure is a delight to the people at WalMart working poverty-level wages with no insurance coverage & forced and unpaid overtime. But hey, 5% of almost nothing!

Beggars can't be choosers.


And maybe we shouldn't have entire industries of beggars? Maybe?
 
2012-11-21 12:32:41 AM

buzzcut73: PanicMan:
Here's the story of one supplier who said no to Walmart. It "only" cost him 20% of his business.

"every year the price has come down. Every year the content of the product has gone up... at the price I'm selling to you today, I'm not making any money on it. And if we do what you want next year, I'll lose money."

I've read that story a few times. Now that I have a house with a yard, I'm going to buy a Snapper.


I wish I could buy a snapper. Instead, I married one. What the fark was I thinking!
 
2012-11-21 12:32:56 AM

LemSkroob: good, good. I love war.

/May both sides lose.


That is usually how war works.
 
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