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(Salon)   The Complete Idiot's Guide to Wal-Mart's Black Friday Showdown, which pits low-wage workers against greedy management and owners   (salon.com) divider line 370
    More: PSA, Wal-Mart, picket lines, forced labour, North Jersey, unfair labor practice, cover letters  
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12439 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Nov 2012 at 10:30 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-20 10:51:11 PM  

Edward Rooney Dean of Students: Blue_Blazer: Edward Rooney Dean of Students: I'm confused; nowhere in the article does it explain that these people were FORCED to take these jobs without knowing what the wage was. I men, that had to be case, right? Otherwise...
Seriously!!! These dumbasses take these low paying jobs when there are plenty of high paying jobs just sitting there unfiiled! Man those poor sure are stupid!

Not the point at all. But taking a minimum wage job and expecting it to be something more than that is not exactly bright.


So you deny them their right to complain? How very.
 
2012-11-20 10:51:27 PM  

Edward Rooney Dean of Students: Not the point at all. But taking a minimum wage job and expecting it to be something more than that is not exactly bright.


FTFA: Walmart employees across the country have a host of grievances including unsafe and unsanitary working conditions, sexual harassment, excessive hours, forced labor and low pay.

Pay someone enough, and they'll endure all of that. Since Wal-Mart wasn't, and still subjecting its employees to it, this is far askew of what expectations of a minimum wage job should be.
 
2012-11-20 10:51:33 PM  

Sergeant Grumbles: Too Pretty For Prison: but, but, but that's not FAIR! Sure, I have no skills and can only stack boxes on a shelf - but I'm ENTITLED to have a 65" TV, a new car, a large house, every available cable channel, and a cell phone for my 6 year old. I DEMAND you pay me more!!!

You forgot refrigerator, you hyperbolic fark.

 
2012-11-20 10:51:34 PM  
Strike, baby, strike.

Wal-Mart is just one giant bundle of corporate welfare. They often get tax subsidies for opening new stores. Many of their employees qualify for low-income support programs like food stamps, Medicaid, subsidized housing and busing. I doubt the tax subsidies are going anywhere, but I would like to see their employees paid better.
 
2012-11-20 10:51:38 PM  

Coelacanth: The average minimum wage in Australia/Europe/Japan is $16.50.


The best minds in America have assured me that a minimum wage that high will result in the total collapse of everything. TOP men, I'm talking about.
 
2012-11-20 10:51:45 PM  

MFAWG: Edward Rooney Dean of Students: MFAWG: Have you looked for a job lately?

I was told the job situation was fixed. Thanks Obama!

No, seriously: You stated that nobody forced these people to take these jobs. These people have mouths to feed. That's what forces them to take these jobs.

So, have you looked for a job, ever?


Yes I have.. Many times. And the minimum wage ones I had were a good starting point, but I was under no illusions that they would have sustained me and my family for long.
 
2012-11-20 10:52:12 PM  
Still relevant:

www.theconnextion.com
 
2012-11-20 10:53:21 PM  

Edward Rooney Dean of Students: MFAWG: Edward Rooney Dean of Students: MFAWG: Have you looked for a job lately?

I was told the job situation was fixed. Thanks Obama!

No, seriously: You stated that nobody forced these people to take these jobs. These people have mouths to feed. That's what forces them to take these jobs.

So, have you looked for a job, ever?

Yes I have.. Many times. And the minimum wage ones I had were a good starting point, but I was under no illusions that they would have sustained me and my family for long.


So you quit as soon as you couldn't take the shiat any longer?
 
2012-11-20 10:54:46 PM  

herrDrFarkenstein: Edward Rooney Dean of Students: Blue_Blazer: Edward Rooney Dean of Students: I'm confused; nowhere in the article does it explain that these people were FORCED to take these jobs without knowing what the wage was. I men, that had to be case, right? Otherwise...
Seriously!!! These dumbasses take these low paying jobs when there are plenty of high paying jobs just sitting there unfiiled! Man those poor sure are stupid!

Not the point at all. But taking a minimum wage job and expecting it to be something more than that is not exactly bright.

So you deny them their right to complain? How very.


Oh, they can complain all they want. Heck, I even support their right to strike. I also support walmarts right to not give a shiat. Or maybe Walmart does give a shiat, and they'll work something out.
 
2012-11-20 10:56:09 PM  

Summoner101: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Summoner101: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: What's wrong with the executives earning 1% less if it means your lowest paid staff member earns a living wage?

Because it's socialism and we can't have that in our completely free market capitalism.

It's not even socialism though. It's a net positive for society, even with a heavily capitalist mixed economy, to have a strong and thriving middle class.

Time and time again throughout history, it's clearly demonstrated that severe discrepancies in income (with 1 or 2% holding a supermajority of wealth) leads to wholesale financial collapse.

In the long-term, the rich would be better served by being a little less rich in the short-term in exchange for an economically secure labor force.

Just to let you know, I was being facetious and I agree with you.


No, I know, I was just clarifying because some people out there really so think that way.

And for the people who are saying "Guess thy should have got a better job!" - This is the United States. I want this to be a nation where working a full-time job, even a menial low-skill job, affords one the basic necessities of life. We need a living wage, not a race-to-the-bottom minimum wage.
 
2012-11-20 10:56:09 PM  

MFAWG: Edward Rooney Dean of Students: MFAWG: Edward Rooney Dean of Students: MFAWG: Have you looked for a job lately?

I was told the job situation was fixed. Thanks Obama!

No, seriously: You stated that nobody forced these people to take these jobs. These people have mouths to feed. That's what forces them to take these jobs.

So, have you looked for a job, ever?

Yes I have.. Many times. And the minimum wage ones I had were a good starting point, but I was under no illusions that they would have sustained me and my family for long.

So you quit as soon as you couldn't take the shiat any longer?


Not unless I had something else lined up. Sometimes you got to shovel shiat for a while.
 
2012-11-20 10:56:34 PM  
As a taxpayer, i don't feel like i should foot the bill for Walmart employees that have to be on welfare just to get by even though they work. Pay your people a living wage for fark's sake.
 
2012-11-20 10:56:40 PM  

drewsclues: The situation is as fixed as it ever was. The only difference is that this time the unemployed have gadgets and an internet to tell you how the situation is. I DON'T HAVE A farkING JOB! #noteventrying


Try telling that to the Middle East. Try telling that to the Egyptians, to the Libyans, to the Tunisians, to the Yemans. Look at what the unemployed did with their gadgets and the internet over there.
 
2012-11-20 10:58:39 PM  
Wal-mart workers are figthing to get more from those that shop at Wal-mart. I am still unclear why anyone has a problem with this. Many more Fark Duh moments to come
 
2012-11-20 11:00:10 PM  

EmmaLou: As a taxpayer, i don't feel like i should foot the bill for Walmart employees that have to be on welfare just to get by even though they work. Pay your people a living wage for fark's sake.


This. It's obscene that we live in a developed nation and many of our full-time workers can survive on their wages alone. There's something very, very wrong with a society where you can work full-time and not break even.
 
2012-11-20 11:00:13 PM  

Coelacanth: The average minimum wage in Australia/Europe/Japan is $16.50.


What's the average living costs in these countries? One piece of the puzzle, forms no argument.
 
2012-11-20 11:00:56 PM  
cant* survive
 
2012-11-20 11:02:26 PM  

Sergeant Grumbles: Pay someone enough, and they'll endure all of that. Since Wal-Mart wasn't, and still subjecting its employees to it, this is far askew of what expectations of a minimum wage job should be.


I'd argue that there is an inverse bell curve in effect for that. On the upper end, people eat shiat because they're paid very well to do so. On the bottom end, people do so because they have no choice. If they could get a better job, they probably would. Everyone in the middle has the skills or opportunity to work someplace better, so they do.

Hostess fell in the middle of that curve. In a few years, wages were expected to be half of what they were when the VC firm purchased them. Their pension plan was also in shambles. So they decided it was splitsville, which saved what remained of their pensions by kicking it to the Feds.
 
2012-11-20 11:02:56 PM  
Is this the thread where a

theenez: Wal-mart workers are figthing to get more from those that shop at Wal-mart. I am still unclear why anyone has a problem with this. Many more Fark Duh moments to come


Because communism. Duh.
 
2012-11-20 11:03:49 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: EmmaLou: As a taxpayer, i don't feel like i should foot the bill for Walmart employees that have to be on welfare just to get by even though they work. Pay your people a living wage for fark's sake.

This. It's obscene that we live in a developed nation and many of our full-time workers can survive on their wages alone. There's something very, very wrong with a society where you can work full-time and not break even.


What compounds the problem is that people have come to some agreement that unions are unnecessary because of state/federal laws except many of the anti-labor business practices Walmart employs would take a union to combat.
 
2012-11-20 11:04:01 PM  

Coelacanth: The average minimum wage in Australia/Europe/Japan is $16.50.


Luxembourg has highest standard of living in the world and has about $10.00 minimum wage.
 
2012-11-20 11:06:00 PM  

drewsclues: Best advice: Don't shop on Thanksgiving.


Amen to this. Actually, don't shop on Black Friday, either.
 
2012-11-20 11:06:25 PM  

smitty04: Coelacanth: The average minimum wage in Australia/Europe/Japan is $16.50.

Luxembourg has highest standard of living in the world and has about $10.00 minimum wage.


That's interesting. How much does a Luxembourgian pay in health insurance premiums for basic care?
 
2012-11-20 11:07:31 PM  

Linkster: Coelacanth: The average minimum wage in Australia/Europe/Japan is $16.50.

What's the average living costs in these countries? One piece of the puzzle, forms no argument.


Link
 
2012-11-20 11:07:48 PM  
Stage a boycott of Wal-Mart.. it worked so well for Chick-Fil-A

or look at it this way:

Boycott Wal-Mart so employees will be fired due to lack of business.. it's not like you can find an employee while your there anyway

Win/Win
 
2012-11-20 11:07:57 PM  
Japan and Australia are commie poofs who did not start illegal wars like real men do.

Real men spend money on finding non-existent weapons of mass destruction. Not on that fairy minimum wage.
 
2012-11-20 11:08:13 PM  

smitty04: Coelacanth: The average minimum wage in Australia/Europe/Japan is $16.50.

Luxembourg has highest standard of living in the world and has about $10.00 minimum wage.


It's roughly $14.25/hr
 
2012-11-20 11:08:30 PM  

smitty04: Coelacanth: The average minimum wage in Australia/Europe/Japan is $16.50.

Luxembourg has highest standard of living in the world and has about $10.00 minimum wage.


$14.21 according to this Link
 
2012-11-20 11:09:44 PM  

Linkster: Coelacanth: The average minimum wage in Australia/Europe/Japan is $16.50.

What's the average living costs in these countries? One piece of the puzzle, forms no argument.


Not to mention exchange rate. JPY vs USD has been ridiculously skewed in the past few years.
 
2012-11-20 11:09:56 PM  
Ned Resnikoff at MSNBC flagged a leaked internal document (first obtained by HuffPo) that revealed that base pay at Walmart's Sam's Place stores can be as low as $8 an hour (or $16,000 per year), with wage increases in increments as low as 20 or 40 cents per hour.

Long ago and far away, I was one of those flogged and underpaid drones (employee unit #XJ43061, if you must know). I started out at $8 an hour FT, and that made for a marginally acceptable living with someone else around to share expenses with. A few months in, while chatting with a sweetheart in softlines whose only fault was a massive overbite and a harsh hand dealt from time and poverty. It turned out she'd been there a number of years, and her pay wasn't even equal to mine.

As someone who has BT;DT - yes, the working conditions ARE that bad. It's better than nothing, but it's so degrading and soul-crushing, and is the sort of job that just keeps you awake at night long after you've thrown that farking vest somewhere out of sight. /CSB

/Walmart was so bad I started smoking
//Good luck, striking workers!
///Fark Black Friday
 
2012-11-20 11:12:49 PM  

Vector R: As someone who has BT;DT - yes, the working conditions ARE that bad. It's better than nothing, but it's so degrading and soul-crushing, and is the sort of job that just keeps you awake at night long after you've thrown that farking vest somewhere out of sight.


Hah, that's because they fark your sleep schedule so badly with a schedule that varies weekly.
 
2012-11-20 11:15:24 PM  
Are we taking Black Friday bets?
Put me down for
6 tramplings
2 deaths
3 stabbins
10 punchins
 
2012-11-20 11:16:14 PM  
Why doesn't the union just open up its own wal-mart competitor and pay everyone 25,000 per year.
I'm sure they could get nice discounts from suppliers that are union shops. They wont even need that 1% price increase. But that 1% more, plenty of people will go there instead.
Then, they can drive wal-mart out of business.
 
2012-11-20 11:16:45 PM  
There aren't any other jobs to be had, and the jobs there are... pretty damn bad.

I just don't get it. People like my mom ("UNIONS ARE TERRORISITS", she's fond of saying these days, "How?" "They just are!". ...she swears she's not a Republican) would BENEFIT from this stuff, but..

I dunno.

/Mom finally found a job. Maybe her brain will start kicking in
//Making 14 an hour and forced to split the bills with my mother.
 
2012-11-20 11:17:32 PM  

Sergeant Grumbles: Vector R: As someone who has BT;DT - yes, the working conditions ARE that bad. It's better than nothing, but it's so degrading and soul-crushing, and is the sort of job that just keeps you awake at night long after you've thrown that farking vest somewhere out of sight.

Hah, that's because they fark your sleep schedule so badly with a schedule that varies weekly.


My niece loves her job.. 8a-4p Sun-Thu. You must mean a different Wal-Mart
 
2012-11-20 11:18:01 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: base pay at Walmart's Sam's Place stores can be as low as $8 an hour, with wage increases in increments as low as 20 or 40 cents per hour.

To put it another way, the raises are between 2.5% and 5%, in line with most other industries.


.20 to .40 an hour? That's like a wage increase of 1.60 - 2.30 for just 1 eight hour shift!!! I'm lucky if I see .85 for a whole year. Time to get me a job at Sam's Place!
 
2012-11-20 11:18:01 PM  
The only thing unions care about is they are hoping the "Black Friday on Thursday" shenanigans can get them to break into Walmart and get those tasty union dues from the countries largest private employer.

/only the the US DOD has more employees then WalMart.
 
2012-11-20 11:18:52 PM  

JosephFinn: AverageAmericanGuy: base pay at Walmart's Sam's Place stores can be as low as $8 an hour, with wage increases in increments as low as 20 or 40 cents per hour.

To put it another way, the raises are between 2.5% and 5%, in line with most other industries.

Which I'm sure is a delight to the people at WalMart working poverty-level wages with no insurance coverage & forced and unpaid overtime. But hey, 5% of almost nothing!


Its only almost nothing if that 8$ is in NJ. In Houston, that gets you a loan for a small house.
 
2012-11-20 11:20:31 PM  

Vector R: Ned Resnikoff at MSNBC flagged a leaked internal document (first obtained by HuffPo) that revealed that base pay at Walmart's Sam's Place stores can be as low as $8 an hour (or $16,000 per year), with wage increases in increments as low as 20 or 40 cents per hour.

Long ago and far away, I was one of those flogged and underpaid drones (employee unit #XJ43061, if you must know). I started out at $8 an hour FT, and that made for a marginally acceptable living with someone else around to share expenses with. A few months in, while chatting with a sweetheart in softlines whose only fault was a massive overbite and a harsh hand dealt from time and poverty. It turned out she'd been there a number of years, and her pay wasn't even equal to mine.

As someone who has BT;DT - yes, the working conditions ARE that bad. It's better than nothing, but it's so degrading and soul-crushing, and is the sort of job that just keeps you awake at night long after you've thrown that farking vest somewhere out of sight. /CSB

/Walmart was so bad I started smoking
//Good luck, striking workers!
///Fark Black Friday


I often state half-jokingly that working there is one of the reasons I still drink.
 
2012-11-20 11:20:49 PM  

Vector R: It turned out she'd been there a number of years, and her pay wasn't even equal to mine.


Women are bad at negotiating. Doesn't matter if it's salary or asking her partner to wear a condom.
 
2012-11-20 11:21:59 PM  
Since this is a somewhat liberal site, I'm sure to get flamed by this, but anyway....

People who work for Walmart, Target, or any other RETAIL store....well, suck it up!
You are working a RETAIL store! If people didn't come into those stores on Thanksgiving,
or 4am on black Friday, you would be able to stay home. The fault isn't the retailer, it
is the lazy a&& consumer who wants (or thinks they will get) a bargain.
If they didn't show up, the store wouldn't be open!
Also, yes, the economy is (if you live in real-ville) DOWN THE TOILET, so that might be
the reason you are working a low wage or minimum wage job. Now, if you are the countless
drones that are working low/minimum wage jobs, and you are at least in your 20's, you have
to stop and have someone toss a bucket of ice water in your face. Why? Because you
need to evaluate your life. How did you screw up your life, that you are only QUALIFIED to
be a minimum wage employee with little or NO skills in anything other than "do you want
fries with that". As the judge in Caddyshack said "the world needs ditch diggers".
When you were in high school, I'll just bet you were uber cool, skipping school, getting high
daily, girls falling all over you, getting kicked out of school for fighting....yeah, how cool are
you now? The rest of us, STUDIED, went to college (I paid my own way), and got a good
job, that allows us the freedom of having nights, holidays & weekends off!
So, suck it up, and take it in the butt....you have no one to complain to, but yourself!
 
2012-11-20 11:22:29 PM  

Blue_Blazer: Edward Rooney Dean of Students: I'm confused; nowhere in the article does it explain that these people were FORCED to take these jobs without knowing what the wage was. I men, that had to be case, right? Otherwise...
Seriously!!! These dumbasses take these low paying jobs when there are plenty of high paying jobs just sitting there unfiiled! Man those poor sure are stupid!


Maybe dropping out of middle school was not such a good idea. No education and no skills likely means a tough life.
 
2012-11-20 11:23:11 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I want this to be a nation where working a full-time job, even a menial low-skill job, affords one the basic necessities of life.


They have the basic necessities. They are striking, not dying in the streets.
 
2012-11-20 11:23:39 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Linkster: Coelacanth: The average minimum wage in Australia/Europe/Japan is $16.50.

What's the average living costs in these countries? One piece of the puzzle, forms no argument.

Not to mention exchange rate. JPY vs USD has been ridiculously skewed in the past few years.


They also get all kinds of benefits we can only dream of in this country, plus health care.
 
2012-11-20 11:24:31 PM  

KarmicDisaster: Are we taking Black Friday bets?
Put me down for
6 tramplings
2 deaths
3 stabbins
10 punchins


I'm in with at least one person losing an eye.
 
2012-11-20 11:24:49 PM  
Don't pretty much 100% of people in Japan, Australia and Europe graduate from high school or an equivalent?

Why don't they get pregnant at 15 and drop at like Jebus said to?

There aren't as many Walmarts in New England because New England has fewer high school dropouts to staff the.
 
2012-11-20 11:27:24 PM  
Sergeant Grumbles: Vector R: As someone who has BT;DT - yes, the working conditions ARE that bad. It's better than nothing, but it's so degrading and soul-crushing, and is the sort of job that just keeps you awake at night long after you've thrown that farking vest somewhere out of sight.

Hah, that's because they fark your sleep schedule so badly with a schedule that varies weekly.


tell them you cant work those hours because you have another job.  Walmart never scheduled me
at times I said I wasnt available.
 
2012-11-20 11:28:04 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: Why doesn't the union just open up its own wal-mart competitor and pay everyone 25,000 per year.
I'm sure they could get nice discounts from suppliers that are union shops. They wont even need that 1% price increase. But that 1% more, plenty of people will go there instead.
Then, they can drive wal-mart out of business.


Union leaders aren't that smart...
If it were really that easy, even you could do it

/Damn I love being a Farker
 
2012-11-20 11:30:23 PM  

Coelacanth: AverageAmericanGuy: Linkster: Coelacanth: The average minimum wage in Australia/Europe/Japan is $16.50.

What's the average living costs in these countries? One piece of the puzzle, forms no argument.

Not to mention exchange rate. JPY vs USD has been ridiculously skewed in the past few years.

They also get all kinds of benefits we can only dream of in this country, plus health care.


Such as?
 
2012-11-20 11:30:25 PM  

diaphoresis: My niece loves her job.. 8a-4p Sun-Thu. You must mean a different Wal-Mart


Min Wage isn't bad when you don't have to take shiat far above your pay grade. I've seen enough of the good and the bad to know that your niece could be perfectly happy and her store might be a great place to work even for peanuts, and that others put you through so much shiat that no amount of money would ever justify it.

My wife is a pharmacy tech for Walgreens. She's worked at many of them as I've moved around for work. Some are great, and she'll have a set schedule of roughly the same time every day, every week and knows it won't change for the next four months. Others she has to call the store on Monday because the manager hasn't posted a schedule, has her closing, then opening, then opening again, then a mid shift, a day off, and a closing, and it varies every week with no rhyme or reason.
 
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