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(NBC News)   Turns out the economy is not the only thing Republicans are good at crashing   (openchannel.nbcnews.com) divider line 101
    More: Obvious, Republican, social attitudes, Michael Isikoff, Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, red states, breast cancer risks, Thomas Frank, car accidents  
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10825 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Nov 2012 at 11:23 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-20 06:35:06 AM
Interesting thing I noticed - the 10 least crashy states have excellent public transportation - except for Alaska which is simply lacking in things to run your car into. The 10 most crashy states have next to no public transit.

Is it a red state / blue state thing or a lack of public transit thing? If you were to do a find and replace for red/blue lacking transit/plentiful transit you couldn't tell the difference.
 
2012-11-20 07:01:51 AM

pecosdave: Interesting thing I noticed - the 10 least crashy states have excellent public transportation - except for Alaska which is simply lacking in things to run your car into. The 10 most crashy states have next to no public transit.

Is it a red state / blue state thing or a lack of public transit thing? If you were to do a find and replace for red/blue lacking transit/plentiful transit you couldn't tell the difference.


That probably has something to do with it, but note that 177 people died in WY, while 2715 people died in CA. Given its population, even one death in WY is statistically significant. Also, states like WY, NM and and the Dakotas also have much higher numbers of DUI along with likely higher rates of alcoholism, greater percentages of poor people and lots of wide open straight highway miles where people are more likely to fall asleep while driving.
 
2012-11-20 07:06:41 AM

pecosdave: except for Alaska which is simply lacking in things to run your car into.


www.statesymbolsusa.org

would like a word with you. 

cache.gawker.com
 
2012-11-20 07:36:39 AM
Ain't no gubmint tell me to wear no seatbelt, I'll tell you what.
 
2012-11-20 10:21:45 AM
And we're up 6% over last year here. 890 dead so far in traffic accidents in the state, versus 840 last year at this time.
 
2012-11-20 10:58:03 AM
More highly urbanized areas are more likely to vote democrat and also less likely to drive by utilizing mass transit/walking

An intesting comparison would be to fatalities per mile driven in these states. The results would probably be a lot closer
 
2012-11-20 11:18:06 AM

pecosdave: Is it a red state / blue state thing or a lack of public transit thing?


Public transportation is a red/blue thing.
 
2012-11-20 11:24:58 AM
Blue states are full of moochers that can't afford cars.
 
2012-11-20 11:27:14 AM
Blue states use private jets and helicopters.
 
2012-11-20 11:27:18 AM
With the understanding that "crashing the economy" was a bipartisan effort, thanks to the Housing Bubble, meaningless statistics are meaningless, subby.
 
2012-11-20 11:27:39 AM

pecosdave: the 10 least crashy states have excellent public transportation


Came here to say this. Urbanization correlates to both political affiliation and use of cars.
 
2012-11-20 11:27:52 AM
Tennessee's problem is sobering.

There's a T-DOT billboard that is over the road on my way to work, that displays the number of Traffic Fatalities each morning in Tennessee for the year.

We're currently approaching 1,100 for the year. And each day brings a new addition.
 
2012-11-20 11:30:30 AM
When I lived in Indiana, a lot of people were run over by trains. Anecdotal evidence to be sure, but it felt somewhat excessive considering that in most of Indiana you can see a train coming from about 12 miles away.
 
2012-11-20 11:30:45 AM

PC LOAD LETTER: Ain't no gubmint tell me to wear no seatbelt, I'll tell you what.


This.
 
2012-11-20 11:32:16 AM
I'm not siding with either political party here, but I would have thought that the author would know that correlation does not always equal causation. Maybe they addressed that in TFA, but I only skimmed it because I'm lazy.
 
2012-11-20 11:32:37 AM
Mass transit.

Not that difficult to figure out.

I certainly don't totally reject the theory that people in "red" states are stupid and can't drive worth a fark (I live in Texas, after all), but people in "blue" states are also stupid and from what I hear/read (esp. here on Fark) also can't drive worth a fark.
 
2012-11-20 11:32:55 AM

hdhale: With the understanding that "crashing the economy" was a bipartisan effort, thanks to the Housing Bubble, meaningless statistics are meaningless, subby.


captionsearch.com


Deregulation is a bi-partisan effort, amirite?
 
2012-11-20 11:33:16 AM

BronyMedic: Tennessee's problem is sobering.

There's a T-DOT billboard that is over the road on my way to work, that displays the number of Traffic Fatalities each morning in Tennessee for the year.

We're currently approaching 1,100 for the year. And each day brings a new addition.


Yeah, I liked it when they said "Don't text and drive" cause I was like "Dude, I think you just texted me!"

/Bill "Nonconnah" Norris
 
2012-11-20 11:33:43 AM
"This is someplace where you would not expect to see a partisan divide," Frank said

That's because it's NOT.

The calculation being used is vehicle fatalities per capita, not factoring in vehicle ownership per capita, miles driven per capita, local/highway miles or % of time on the road or other more useful figures that might shed some light on whether it is the drivers themselves that are the problem or if it's just the environment in which the driving is taking place.

That's like saying rich people aren't as good at flying planes as poor people because more rich people die every year in plane crashes (not too many poor folks fly their own planes).
 
2012-11-20 11:34:02 AM
Things Republicans are good for crashing:

Economies
Cars
Dreams
 
2012-11-20 11:34:30 AM
Another thing: I wonder if red states have more relaxed driving permit standards, especially pertaining to age. New York doesn't let you get a learner's permit until 16, and from what I hear the farm states out west let kids drive as early as 8 so they can help with the farm work. But since most cars and trucks are designed to be operated by adults, and IMO kids and teens probably have worse judgment with respect to speeding, aggressive driving, and handling alcohol and such substances, the incidence of accidents caused by minors may be higher.
 
2012-11-20 11:36:12 AM
California had 10% less fatalities than Texas in spite of having 10,000,000 more population or so.
 
2012-11-20 11:36:31 AM
LOL.

Still not Obama's fault. I guess nothing ever will be.
 
2012-11-20 11:36:48 AM

Dead for Tax Reasons: More highly urbanized areas are more likely to vote democrat and also less likely to drive by utilizing mass transit/walking

An intesting comparison would be to fatalities per mile driven in these states. The results would probably be a lot closer


Same could be said for speeding for those who do drive. It's hard to get into a fatal crash going from one stop light to the next (but not impossible) in very congested areas whereas Wyoming is specifically known for having no speed limits in certain portions of the state.
 
2012-11-20 11:38:09 AM
With some exceptions, red states are poorer than blue ones and have less money to spend on highway safety and improvement. They also tend to have less educated citizens and risky behaviors are highly correlated to a lake of education.
 
2012-11-20 11:39:17 AM
I'm thinking of Angelinos spending zillions of hours in cars. But traffic so congested they can't go fast enough have fatalities. And spending those hours commuting to and from work not drunk for the most part. And safe freeway driving being their main cultural adaptation.
 
2012-11-20 11:40:13 AM
FTFA:
Complicating things further is the possibility that deaths per 100,000 residents isn't the best yardstick for comparisons. Fatalities per total miles traveled, some experts say, is better.

The DoT will not use deaths as a percent of population to consider meaningful statistics. The amount of driving performed has always been a factor. There has even been attempts to determine the amount of time spent driving, and passenger miles (consider how many persons are in a vehicle while it's moving) to ascertain total exposure to hazards.
If all of your population is crowded into cities and have no option BUT to take (very safe, mind you) public transportation, then traffic fatalities will be lower. We're looking at you, DC.
 
2012-11-20 11:40:26 AM

Smelly Pirate Hooker: I certainly don't totally reject the theory that people in "red" states are stupid and can't drive worth a fark (I live in Texas, after all), but people in "blue" states are also stupid and from what I hear/read (esp. here on Fark) also can't drive worth a fark.


Ah, but if you get into an accident driving in Manhattan, you're probably doing 30 mph at most, which is usually survivable. If you're driving on a highway, you could be driving 70 when you hit that signpost or concrete barrier or (god forbid) oncoming traffic. Since the article was talking about fatalities, you can see how a state where most people are on highways would have more fatalities compared to a state with more city driving.
 
2012-11-20 11:40:28 AM
In my red state, it seems most deaths by motor vehicles are caused by just plain stupidity. Drunks, texting, and simply not paying attention. There's a county that abuts north-east of my county where it's the kids just getting their licenses killing themselves. Constantly. Been happening in this district so often and so long they finally realized maybe they should re-do their student driving classes and tests. I mean, it was really like 3 kids dying a week for like 3 or 4 years.
 
2012-11-20 11:41:21 AM

BronyMedic: Tennessee's problem is sobering.

There's a T-DOT billboard that is over the road on my way to work, that displays the number of Traffic Fatalities each morning in Tennessee for the year.

We're currently approaching 1,100 for the year. And each day brings a new addition.


I'd be a lot more worried if a day ever brought a subtraction.
 
2012-11-20 11:42:43 AM
You are saying this like it is a bad thing.
 
2012-11-20 11:43:13 AM

Dead for Tax Reasons: More highly urbanized areas are more likely to vote democrat and also less likely to drive by utilizing mass transit/walking

An intesting comparison would be to fatalities per mile driven in these states. The results would probably be a lot closer


Exactly what I was coming to post, the metric is 100,000 person miles driven, not the poulation density.
 
2012-11-20 11:44:25 AM

JackieRabbit: With some exceptions, red states are poorer than blue ones and have less money to spend on highway safety and improvement. They also tend to have less educated citizens and risky behaviors are highly correlated to a lake of education.


A perfect example of a blue state champion right there.
 
2012-11-20 11:45:40 AM
subby ........ 5 Trillion and counting.
 
2012-11-20 11:47:36 AM

JackieRabbit: With some exceptions, red states are poorer than blue ones and have less money to spend on highway safety and improvement. They also tend to have less educated citizens and risky behaviors are highly correlated to a lake of education.


Don't forget that their vastly spread out population makes public transportation even less sensible than everyone operating your own 1980-something beater. Then once you get buses, you have to show that there is a benefit in order to get people's attitudes regarding public transportation to change. When Little Rock tried to do a bus system in the late 80's, it was almost completely unused because most people didn't experience enough inconvenience on the highways to want to ride a bus and lose the convenience of having your own car.

When parking is cheap and plentiful, and the city isn't packed to the walls with cars, people aren't going to be beholden to someone else's schedule if the opportunity to drive yourself is available. Combine that with a poor education system that promotes ignorance over knowledge (creation vs evolution is a symptom of this) then you've got a recipe for lots of traffic fatalities.
 
2012-11-20 11:47:44 AM

Arkanaut: Another thing: I wonder if red states have more relaxed driving permit standards, especially pertaining to age. New York doesn't let you get a learner's permit until 16, and from what I hear the farm states out west let kids drive as early as 8 so they can help with the farm work. But since most cars and trucks are designed to be operated by adults, and IMO kids and teens probably have worse judgment with respect to speeding, aggressive driving, and handling alcohol and such substances, the incidence of accidents caused by minors may be higher.


14, in some states in flyover country you could get a permit at 14.

Personally, my experience has been that conservatives are more likely to be assholes (and liberals are more likely to be pussies). Assholes cause a lot of mayhem on the roads.
 
2012-11-20 11:47:45 AM

Rapmaster2000: When I lived in Indiana, a lot of people were run over by trains. Anecdotal evidence to be sure, but it felt somewhat excessive considering that in most of Indiana you can see a train coming from about 12 miles away.


I bet you can see Russia from Indiana as well.
 
2012-11-20 11:48:10 AM
I'm struck by how easily this problem has been explained by Farkers and yet how it stymied at least the writer of TFA. The expert that did the study seemed to have a grasp on the basic differences, but the remainder were pretty obvious for anyone that has ever looked at where our fellow drivers are dying:
1. Someplace you can go fast (gotta get over the safety margin provided by incredibly safe cars)
2. Someplace you can go far (from medical care, from people to notice and call 9-1-1)
3. Someplace with lots of dumb people that also drive (more likely to not wear seatbelts, drive trucks that spit them out and roll over, and have more DUIs)

Cities have plenty of dumb drunks, but they don't have nearly the rate of driving cars, you can't get going too fast, there aren't deer jumping out in front of you like the country, and there's another 30 people that will drive past your dumb ass in the next two minutes even in the middle of the night.
 
2012-11-20 11:48:12 AM

SocraticIrony: hdhale: With the understanding that "crashing the economy" was a bipartisan effort, thanks to the Housing Bubble, meaningless statistics are meaningless, subby.

[captionsearch.com image 449x336]


Deregulation is a bi-partisan effort, amirite?


Just like Democrat efforts to lower the qualifications for home loans so that more people could enjoy the benefits of home ownership get their ass foreclosed on after buying a house they couldn't afford.

Nah, it was a team effort (more like the perfect storm) and that is the ugly truth.
 
2012-11-20 11:48:25 AM

xxmedium: Dead for Tax Reasons: More highly urbanized areas are more likely to vote democrat and also less likely to drive by utilizing mass transit/walking

An intesting comparison would be to fatalities per mile driven in these states. The results would probably be a lot closer

Same could be said for speeding for those who do drive. It's hard to get into a fatal crash going from one stop light to the next (but not impossible) in very congested areas whereas Wyoming is specifically known for having no speed limits in certain portions of the state.


You're thinking of Montana but I don't think that's true anymore. Wyoming has speed limits. There are places where the chance of getting a speeding ticket is exceedingly low because no one - not even the highway patrol - is there. But I think most fatal accidents involve semi-trucks, bad weather, icy roads with blowing snow (white outs) and happen on the interstates (especially 1-80).

The roads in Wyoming get really bad in the winter. That's certainly a factor in the number of fatal accidents.
 
2012-11-20 11:48:32 AM
To an extent that mystifies safety experts and other observers, federal statistics show that people in red states are more likely to die in road crashes.

Blue areas = more urban, often more supportive of public transporation = less distance travelled, sometimes by means other than personal automobiles
Red areas = more rural and reliant on cars = more miles logged, often at higher speeds, almost always in cars

I'm officially smarter than "safety experts and other observers".
 
2012-11-20 11:49:46 AM

JackieRabbit: With some exceptions, red states are poorer than blue ones and have less money to spend on highway safety and improvement. They also tend to have less educated citizens and risky behaviors are highly correlated to a lake of education fire.


ftfy
 
2012-11-20 11:50:12 AM

DoesItReallyMatter: A perfect example of a blue state champion right there.


A lake of education is where you go to swim in knowledge. Or just drown in wikipedia.
 
2012-11-20 11:50:45 AM
It doesn't help that people in Wyoming and Montana talk about distances between towns in term of "sixpacks". z.B., Billings to Bozeman is one six-pack.
 
2012-11-20 11:51:35 AM

madgonad: 14, in some states in flyover country you could get a permit at 14.


It's 15 in my state, or at least was when I was in HS, but my dad taught me how to drive when I was 12. We kept it on our property in the mountains, but it was valuable. Also, the only accidents I've ever been in were when other people completely blind-sided me, never been at fault and have always gotten out of a near accident that I was able to see and gauge.
 
2012-11-20 11:53:06 AM

PC LOAD LETTER: Ain't no gubmint tell me to wear no seatbelt, I'll tell you what.


And I can drink and drive just fine, thank you very much, OBAMA.

Funny
 
2012-11-20 11:54:29 AM

Heist: To an extent that mystifies safety experts and other observers, federal statistics show that people in red states are more likely to die in road crashes.

Blue areas = more urban, often more supportive of public transporation = less distance travelled, sometimes by means other than personal automobiles
Red areas = more rural and reliant on cars = more miles logged, often at higher speeds, almost always in cars

I'm officially smarter than "safety experts and other observers".


It actually balances out.

Around every city is 2-4x the population in the suburbs that spends a hell of a lot of time on the road (example: Los Angeles). In rural areas you have people that live in a town of 3k-10k people and they drive about four miles a day. I have lived in the city, suburbs, and country. I drove way more living in the suburbs and the least in the country.
 
2012-11-20 11:57:20 AM

factoryconnection: 1. Someplace you can go fast (gotta get over the safety margin provided by incredibly safe cars)
2. Someplace you can go far (from medical care, from people to notice and call 9-1-1)
3. Someplace with lots of dumb people that also drive (more likely to not wear seatbelts, drive trucks that spit them out and roll over, and have more DUIs)


Also consider that for #1, in cities you have many drivers who are more affluent and can afford to both keep their car in good condition, and get a newer car with more effective safety features. A crash in a 2012 4-wheel vehicle of ANY make & model is more survivable than nearly any consumer vehicle from the 1980's. Even the Smart cars give you a better chance of walking away than the 1980's Volvo's or Saab's, let alone the pickups and and normal sedans of the time.
 
2012-11-20 11:58:16 AM

HotWingConspiracy: And I can drink and drive just fine, thank you very much, OBAMA.

Funny


Oh, dear the hoisting by their own petards is so intense!

Personally, I drew a line in the sand around '02 or '03: Not only will no one ride in my car unbelted, but they'll get an impenetrable ration of sh*t from me if they don't do it in their own car. I care about my friends and family and none of them are dumb enough to excuse that behavior.
 
2012-11-20 12:00:13 PM

DoesItReallyMatter: JackieRabbit: With some exceptions, red states are poorer than blue ones and have less money to spend on highway safety and improvement. They also tend to have less educated citizens and risky behaviors are highly correlated to a lake of education.

A perfect example of a blue state champion right there.


Still can't type for shiat.

/lives in a red state....
 
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