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(Mother Jones)   Interesting: Here's what the proposed Obama tax rates would look like. Obvious: Fark Independents™ will ignore this   (motherjones.com) divider line 311
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7868 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 Nov 2012 at 7:31 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-20 04:47:56 AM  
According to the Tea Party, anything to the right of 0% is way far to the right of the Laffer Curve.
 
2012-11-20 05:57:15 AM  
No wai!1 Teh Obamuniss will take all teh rich munnies 4 sekrit consintrayshun camps and give 2 teh crack whorz!1!
 
2012-11-20 06:08:18 AM  
How can those job creators afford to open another factory in China?
 
2012-11-20 06:42:26 AM  
I was told there would be no math
 
2012-11-20 07:02:52 AM  
Quick, lets dress up like native Americans and throw tea into Boston Harbor!
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-11-20 07:23:40 AM  

Because People in power are Stupid: How can those job creators afford to open another factory in China?


Obviously they need tax credits. 0% taxation is way too much.
 
2012-11-20 07:24:17 AM  
Does he have a handy little calculator that shows what the impacy is on the defecit because, there's a whole lot more spending cuts and tax increases that need to happen to get anywhere.

I would prefer to let the Bush tax cuts to expire which would expand the tax base. When Reagan was President 80% of households paide taxes versus around 50% today.

When Obama took office spending was about around 20% of GDP versus 25% today.

A starting point would be to achieve both of those as goals.

yeah, right.
 
2012-11-20 07:32:56 AM  
OK I want the republican to take us back to the 50's. The 50's TAX RATE that is.

But just having some old-fashioned compromise, now that would be nice.
 
2012-11-20 07:32:58 AM  
Waiting for Independent Orange Favorites to descend on this thread like a plague of locusts.
 
2012-11-20 07:34:46 AM  
All those $300,000-aires can't possibly afford to pay an extra $1,500 in taxes. Even that tiny 0.5% of their income is completely accounted for, and forcing them to give it to the federal government will cause them to go bankrupt and fire billions of workers.
 
2012-11-20 07:38:46 AM  
I agree with what the person is saying in the article but now include the obamacare taxes on those people as well.

Just to be honest about all of the taxes they will have.
 
2012-11-20 07:40:00 AM  
fta Under Obama's plan, the rate goes up on the amount over $241,900, so they pay a whopping $2,000 more,

This is an outrage?
 
2012-11-20 07:40:38 AM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: Does he have a handy little calculator that shows what the impacy is on the defecit because, there's a whole lot more spending cuts and tax increases that need to happen to get anywhere.

I would prefer to let the Bush tax cuts to expire which would expand the tax base. When Reagan was President 80% of households paide taxes versus around 50% today.

When Obama took office spending was about around 20% of GDP versus 25% today.

A starting point would be to achieve both of those as goals.

yeah, right.


Who the Fark told you government spending was 30% of GDP when Obama took office? For chrissakes you people say stupid things.
 
2012-11-20 07:41:09 AM  

graggor: I agree with what the person is saying in the article but now include the obamacare taxes on those people as well.

Just to be honest about all of the taxes they will have.


Pretty sure the wealthy would have health insurance and wouldn't be penalized for not having said health insurance.
 
2012-11-20 07:41:47 AM  
Farking phone keyboard
 
2012-11-20 07:41:55 AM  

graggor: I agree with what the person is saying in the article but now include the obamacare taxes on those people as well.

Just to be honest about all of the taxes they will have.


That is ONLY if they do not have health insurance. Most of us working stiffs have health insurance and therefore the tax is ZERO.

Climb out of your derp-hole.... really.
 
2012-11-20 07:42:03 AM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: When Reagan was President 80% of households paide taxes versus around 50% today.


When Reagan was President Income inequality was at historic lows. Now it is at historic highs.

2.bp.blogspot.com

www.the-crises.com
 
2012-11-20 07:44:45 AM  
I think those tax rates are fair. This is what Obama promised during the presidential campaign and Romney himself said the election was a referendum on Obama's policies. Obama clearly has a mandate for the people to set the tax rates up in this manner and anyone who disagrees hates American.
 
2012-11-20 07:46:22 AM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: Does he have a handy little calculator that shows what the impacy is on the defecit because, there's a whole lot more spending cuts and tax increases that need to happen to get anywhere.

I would prefer to let the Bush tax cuts to expire which would expand the tax base. When Reagan was President 80% of households paide taxes versus around 50% today.

When Obama took office spending was about around 20% of GDP versus 25% today.

A starting point would be to achieve both of those as goals.

yeah, right.


FY2009 spending is all on Obama. Got it. Never mind that Congress debates spending bills and is supposed to put them in place by the October before the calendar year (e.g. before 30 September 2008 in this case).
 
2012-11-20 07:47:26 AM  

Muta: I think those tax rates are fair a start. This is what Obama promised during the presidential campaign and Romney himself said the election was a referendum on Obama's policies. Obama clearly has a mandate for the people to set the tax rates up in this manner and anyone who disagrees hates American.


Eliminate a few loopholes and tax capital gains and dividends at the individual rate, and then we're talking "fair".
 
2012-11-20 07:47:39 AM  
I work at an office with a dbag who has a combined income of around $250,000 with his wife. They have one kid, live in a 4,000 sqft house, drive two $60,000 cars and just had a custom pool put in. The guy is constantly biatching about how Obama is going to cost him 3% more of his income and that he is thinking about asking for a paycut so he can avoid it. I guess the real question is how can someone this farking stupid make six figures?
 
2012-11-20 07:47:50 AM  
Most wealthy people are concerned about the tax on capital gains, not income. Income only covers salaries, which the truly wealthy don't need as their money makes more money than they can spend.

So the wealthy are focused on the hike in capital gains taxes from 15% to 20%, and to a lesser extent the increase in the inheritance tax, which is increasing from 35% on amounts greater than $5 mill to 55% on amounts greater than $1 mill.

Personally, I believe that capital gains should be taxed as income, as should inheritance. Treat it all as income, as it is simpler and fairer. Plus, it IS income. It is money, coming in. Why should the source matter?
 
2012-11-20 07:49:23 AM  

DaSwankOne: I work at an office with a dbag who has a combined income of around $250,000 with his wife. They have one kid, live in a 4,000 sqft house, drive two $60,000 cars and just had a custom pool put in. The guy is constantly biatching about how Obama is going to cost him 3% more of his income and that he is thinking about asking for a paycut so he can avoid it. I guess the real question is how can someone this farking stupid make six figures?


There are tons of people who does not seem to have ever heard of the progressive tax rate. One of them was my boss, who told me that people should avoid to enter a new tax bracket, because they would in the end, earn less.
 
2012-11-20 07:50:14 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: When Reagan was became President Income inequality was at historic lows. Now it is at historic highs.

 
2012-11-20 07:50:58 AM  

silo123j: graggor: I agree with what the person is saying in the article but now include the obamacare taxes on those people as well.

Just to be honest about all of the taxes they will have.

That is ONLY if they do not have health insurance. Most of us working stiffs have health insurance and therefore the tax is ZERO.

Climb out of your derp-hole.... really.


Oh my lord. No. There are other taxes associated with people who are in the 250,000 range and above not having anything to do with having or not having health insurance.

The surtax on investment income will affect a lot of those people. Which is fine by me.

The inability to deduct on medical expenses as much the lowering of the amount you can put into a FSA account.

It isnt a massive increase. I was saying to be fair you should include what will actually be the taxable amount.

In all likelihood you could say the max would never be the salary of an employee. ever.

Which is why their crying is silly about the small tax increases.

Still they are attending financial conferences talking about how to avoid these taxes and to move their money around away from having to pay these taxes.

I know I have seen one in action. Its how they operate.
 
2012-11-20 07:51:17 AM  

padraig: DaSwankOne: I work at an office with a dbag who has a combined income of around $250,000 with his wife. They have one kid, live in a 4,000 sqft house, drive two $60,000 cars and just had a custom pool put in. The guy is constantly biatching about how Obama is going to cost him 3% more of his income and that he is thinking about asking for a paycut so he can avoid it. I guess the real question is how can someone this farking stupid make six figures?

There are tons of people who does not seem to have ever heard of the progressive tax rate. One of them was my boss, who told me that people should avoid to enter a new tax bracket, because they would in the end, earn less.


Those people should be castrated or have their vaginas spooned out.
 
2012-11-20 07:51:37 AM  
Right Wingers and Independents aren't going to listen to this because they don't care about facts or that math because they both have Liberal bias.
 
2012-11-20 07:51:51 AM  
Meanwhile:
i18.photobucket.com

The last time we had numbers like this - it triggered the Great Depression. And if we allow much more of the nation's wealth to be diverted into the coffers of the super-rich, there to sit and gather dust - we're going to have another.
It's time to quit arguing about "fair" and "unfair", and face the fact that that light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an oncoming train - if we don't fix this soon, we are really and truly boned. Iwould propose putting capital gains back on the same basis as all other earnings, and raising the maximum rates considerably. The best use of the money would be open-ended unemployment insurance for EVERY American who cannot find a job and is sincerely looking for one. That will get that money out of the vaults of Switzerland and the Bahamas, and circulating again - and that will do far more to "fix" the economy than a million dumbass "stimulus" programs that only turn out to be corporate welfare. This is a PRAGMATIC approach. I would not bother to defend it in terms of morals or ethics - and anyway, we abandoned morals and ethics in this country a long time ago.
 
2012-11-20 07:52:26 AM  

SomeAmerican: Most wealthy people are concerned about the tax on capital gains, not income. Income only covers salaries, which the truly wealthy don't need as their money makes more money than they can spend.

So the wealthy are focused on the hike in capital gains taxes from 15% to 20%, and to a lesser extent the increase in the inheritance tax, which is increasing from 35% on amounts greater than $5 mill to 55% on amounts greater than $1 mill.

Personally, I believe that capital gains should be taxed as income, as should inheritance. Treat it all as income, as it is simpler and fairer. Plus, it IS income. It is money, coming in. Why should the source matter?


Plus the surtax in the health care law. This makes it anywhere from 21.5-23% on that income.

Financial Advisors are already figuring out how to avoid paying these taxes for their clients.
 
2012-11-20 07:52:49 AM  

DaSwankOne: I work at an office with a dbag who has a combined income of around $250,000 with his wife. They have one kid, live in a 4,000 sqft house, drive two $60,000 cars and just had a custom pool put in. The guy is constantly biatching about how Obama is going to cost him 3% more of his income and that he is thinking about asking for a paycut so he can avoid it. I guess the real question is how can someone this farking stupid make six figures?


My libertarian brother inlaw and his wife make a little north of $400k and are the same way. They're always going on with their "broadening the tax base" and "skin in the game" bs, even though several of their friends and relatives are living paycheck-to-paycheck.
 
2012-11-20 07:53:09 AM  

Notabunny: Muta: I think those tax rates are fair a start. This is what Obama promised during the presidential campaign and Romney himself said the election was a referendum on Obama's policies. Obama clearly has a mandate for the people to set the tax rates up in this manner and anyone who disagrees hates American.

Eliminate a few loopholes and tax capital gains and dividends at the individual rate, and then we're talking "fair".


I think a better plan would be to apply a $50,000 deduction annually against capital gains and tax all addition earnings as income. That way the average retirees will pay no taxes when the pull out money for living expenses and people like Romney pay a fair rate.
 
2012-11-20 07:53:59 AM  
People that do not understand the progressive tax code now are either willfully misinterpreting it for partisan reasons or goddamn idiots. Either way, the handy chart won't make a difference.

Also, anybody that comes in here and talks about how some random small business owner has a business that makes a ton of money and is considering firing people or working less can be fit in to one of the above two categories.
 
2012-11-20 07:54:32 AM  
That seckret soshalist 0bummer! Raising ratez on hard werking trust fund managers. I just want my country back!

ageranger.com
 
2012-11-20 07:55:20 AM  

padraig: DaSwankOne: I work at an office with a dbag who has a combined income of around $250,000 with his wife. They have one kid, live in a 4,000 sqft house, drive two $60,000 cars and just had a custom pool put in. The guy is constantly biatching about how Obama is going to cost him 3% more of his income and that he is thinking about asking for a paycut so he can avoid it. I guess the real question is how can someone this farking stupid make six figures?

There are tons of people who does not seem to have ever heard of the progressive tax rate. One of them was my boss, who told me that people should avoid to enter a new tax bracket, because they would in the end, earn less.


Sounds like he is trying to convince you guys that he is doing you a favor by giving you only a 1% annual increase. And I bet some of your coworkers agree with him.
 
2012-11-20 07:56:27 AM  
He's a monster. Just look at the data.

i595.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-20 07:56:43 AM  
Example: under the current Bush tax rates, a couple making $300,000 pays $75,802, or 25.27% of their total income. Under Obama's plan, the rate goes up on the amount over $241,900, so they pay a whopping $2,000 more, or 25.85% of total income

So $2000 dollars less in restaurant visits, furniture and electronics purchases, and delivery pizza.

God job, Obama! Those jobs weren't necessary anyway.
 
2012-11-20 07:57:01 AM  
I am also interested to see if the Congress will have the balls to raise the FICA cap.
 
2012-11-20 07:57:30 AM  

DaSwankOne: Notabunny: Muta: I think those tax rates are fair a start. This is what Obama promised during the presidential campaign and Romney himself said the election was a referendum on Obama's policies. Obama clearly has a mandate for the people to set the tax rates up in this manner and anyone who disagrees hates American.

Eliminate a few loopholes and tax capital gains and dividends at the individual rate, and then we're talking "fair".

I think a better plan would be to apply a $50,000 deduction annually against capital gains and tax all addition earnings as income. That way the average retirees will pay no taxes when the pull out money for living expenses and people like Romney pay a fair rate.


This might be a completely insane idea, but how about we just tax all sources of income the same? Get it from wages, get it from sales, get it from selling stock, get it from changing euros into dollars, get it from your parents' estate...why should it matter?
 
2012-11-20 07:57:43 AM  

ongbok: padraig: DaSwankOne: I work at an office with a dbag who has a combined income of around $250,000 with his wife. They have one kid, live in a 4,000 sqft house, drive two $60,000 cars and just had a custom pool put in. The guy is constantly biatching about how Obama is going to cost him 3% more of his income and that he is thinking about asking for a paycut so he can avoid it. I guess the real question is how can someone this farking stupid make six figures?

There are tons of people who does not seem to have ever heard of the progressive tax rate. One of them was my boss, who told me that people should avoid to enter a new tax bracket, because they would in the end, earn less.

Sounds like he is trying to convince you guys that he is doing you a favor by giving you only a 1% annual increase. And I bet some of your coworkers agree with him.


They go to these special dinners where financial advisors tell them how much more they will have to pay (using a max scenario) and it freaks them out.

I watched it happen!
 
2012-11-20 07:58:50 AM  

DaSwankOne: Notabunny: Muta: I think those tax rates are fair a start. This is what Obama promised during the presidential campaign and Romney himself said the election was a referendum on Obama's policies. Obama clearly has a mandate for the people to set the tax rates up in this manner and anyone who disagrees hates American.

Eliminate a few loopholes and tax capital gains and dividends at the individual rate, and then we're talking "fair".

I think a better plan would be to apply a $50,000 deduction annually against capital gains and tax all addition earnings as income. That way the average retirees will pay no taxes when the pull out money for living expenses and people like Romney pay a fair rate.


That number might be a tad high, but sure - as long as people who work for a living get the same break. Special deals for capital gains is why our economy is suffocating in piles of unspent wealth that there is nothing profitable to invest in. Simply freeing up investment capital when there is nothing profitable to invest it in simply fills the bank vaults of offshore tax havens with America's wealth.
 
2012-11-20 07:59:35 AM  

Serious Black: DaSwankOne: Notabunny: Muta: I think those tax rates are fair a start. This is what Obama promised during the presidential campaign and Romney himself said the election was a referendum on Obama's policies. Obama clearly has a mandate for the people to set the tax rates up in this manner and anyone who disagrees hates American.

Eliminate a few loopholes and tax capital gains and dividends at the individual rate, and then we're talking "fair".

I think a better plan would be to apply a $50,000 deduction annually against capital gains and tax all addition earnings as income. That way the average retirees will pay no taxes when the pull out money for living expenses and people like Romney pay a fair rate.

This might be a completely insane idea, but how about we just tax all sources of income the same? Get it from wages, get it from sales, get it from selling stock, get it from changing euros into dollars, get it from your parents' estate...why should it matter?


It hurts retirees.
 
2012-11-20 07:59:46 AM  

DaSwankOne: Notabunny: Muta: I think those tax rates are fair a start. This is what Obama promised during the presidential campaign and Romney himself said the election was a referendum on Obama's policies. Obama clearly has a mandate for the people to set the tax rates up in this manner and anyone who disagrees hates American.

Eliminate a few loopholes and tax capital gains and dividends at the individual rate, and then we're talking "fair".

I think a better plan would be to apply a $50,000 deduction annually against capital gains and tax all addition earnings as income. That way the average retirees will pay no taxes when the pull out money for living expenses and people like Romney pay a fair rate.


That makes sense.
 
2012-11-20 08:00:04 AM  

DaSwankOne: I work at an office with a dbag who has a combined income of around $250,000 with his wife. They have one kid, live in a 4,000 sqft house, drive two $60,000 cars and just had a custom pool put in. The guy is constantly biatching about how Obama is going to cost him 3% more of his income and that he is thinking about asking for a paycut so he can avoid it. I guess the real question is how can someone this farking stupid make six figures?


Because people like complaining and do not like learning how taxes work.

In short - for many income has little to do with intelligence and even less with intellectual curiosity.
 
2012-11-20 08:00:07 AM  

Serious Black: padraig: DaSwankOne: I work at an office with a dbag who has a combined income of around $250,000 with his wife. They have one kid, live in a 4,000 sqft house, drive two $60,000 cars and just had a custom pool put in. The guy is constantly biatching about how Obama is going to cost him 3% more of his income and that he is thinking about asking for a paycut so he can avoid it. I guess the real question is how can someone this farking stupid make six figures?

There are tons of people who does not seem to have ever heard of the progressive tax rate. One of them was my boss, who told me that people should avoid to enter a new tax bracket, because they would in the end, earn less.

Those people should be castrated or have their vaginas spooned out.


Did I mention that I work in Finance (real estate appraisal and tax) and this guy has an Economics degree.
 
2012-11-20 08:01:54 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Example: under the current Bush tax rates, a couple making $300,000 pays $75,802, or 25.27% of their total income. Under Obama's plan, the rate goes up on the amount over $241,900, so they pay a whopping $2,000 more, or 25.85% of total income

So $2000 dollars less in restaurant visits, furniture and electronics purchases, and delivery pizza.

God job, Obama! Those jobs weren't necessary anyway.


More likely, $2000 less stuffed into a Swiss bank account - those people are already spending all they are going to spend on consumption.
 
2012-11-20 08:02:02 AM  

SomeAmerican: So the wealthy are focused on the hike in capital gains taxes from 15% to 20%, and to a lesser extent the increase in the inheritance tax, which is increasing from 35% on amounts greater than $5 mill to 55% on amounts greater than $1 mill.


So, what you're saying is those rich Americans need to hurry up and die this year. That will solve all their problems.
 
2012-11-20 08:02:55 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Serious Black: DaSwankOne: Notabunny: Muta: I think those tax rates are fair a start. This is what Obama promised during the presidential campaign and Romney himself said the election was a referendum on Obama's policies. Obama clearly has a mandate for the people to set the tax rates up in this manner and anyone who disagrees hates American.

Eliminate a few loopholes and tax capital gains and dividends at the individual rate, and then we're talking "fair".

I think a better plan would be to apply a $50,000 deduction annually against capital gains and tax all addition earnings as income. That way the average retirees will pay no taxes when the pull out money for living expenses and people like Romney pay a fair rate.

This might be a completely insane idea, but how about we just tax all sources of income the same? Get it from wages, get it from sales, get it from selling stock, get it from changing euros into dollars, get it from your parents' estate...why should it matter?

It hurts retirees.


It's bad PR for The Richest Country In The World (TM) have a big chunk of its old people retire into poverty.
 
2012-11-20 08:05:37 AM  
I like how the conservative line is now "broaden the base" when it was conservative anti-tax initiatives (esp the earned income tax credit) that have largely led to the situation where so few Americans actually pay net income taxes.
 
2012-11-20 08:05:55 AM  
THAT'S EXACTLY THE SAME AS SLAVERY. EXACTLY THE SAME.


beginningandend.com
 
2012-11-20 08:06:33 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Example: under the current Bush tax rates, a couple making $300,000 pays $75,802, or 25.27% of their total income. Under Obama's plan, the rate goes up on the amount over $241,900, so they pay a whopping $2,000 more, or 25.85% of total income

So $2000 dollars less in restaurant visits, furniture and electronics purchases, and delivery pizza.

God job, Obama! Those jobs weren't necessary anyway.


So you do agree that spending money increases the economy? Are you a Keynesian?
 
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