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(Talking Points Memo)   Marco Rubio, shining star of The New Improved Modern GOP, thinks the age of the Earth is "one of the great mysteries"   (livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 622
    More: Sad, Marco Rubio, GOP  
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3986 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Nov 2012 at 2:07 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-19 02:54:30 PM  

lennavan: The great mystery to which he referred is the beginning of existence. Not the age of the Earth.


According to science, also not a great mystery either.
 
2012-11-19 02:54:40 PM  
Love how the anti-intellectual party is running a Science Committee.
 
2012-11-19 02:55:00 PM  

lennavan: The great mystery to which he referred is the beginning of existence. Not the age of the Earth.


Stop. Lying.

Whether the Earth was created in 7 days, or 7 actual eras, I'm not sure we'll ever be able to answer that. It's one of the great mysteries.
 
2012-11-19 02:55:17 PM  

lennavan: The great mystery to which he referred is the beginning of existence. Not the age of the Earth.


"Whether the Earth was created in 7 days, or 7 actual eras, I'm not sure we'll ever be able to answer that. It's one of the great mysteries."
 
2012-11-19 02:57:22 PM  

Tricky Chicken: Pincy: dugitman: A lot of outrage over a politician side-stepping a thinly-veiled theological question. 
 
Lennavan
 
[i107.photobucket.com image 270x203]

The age of the earth isn't a theological question. If you think it is then you are a retard.

Actually, it is a very valid theological question. If your god is all powerful, then he can easily manipulate the way objects are percieved over time. He could manipulate time in any way he wished. If you accept the dogma of your church when they tell you the Earth if 5,000 years old then that is a purely acceptable theological position. If a god can create a universe, he can alter the ratios of C-12 and C-14 in any way he chooses.


If somebody believes in magic, then there is no topic that cannot be explained with magic.

You seem to have more of an issue with theological explanations questions in general.

Personally I prefer to use a bit of Occam's razor in my approach.
A. An omnipotent being that I do not understand and cannot detect used magic to create the Earth.
B. Gravity acted over massive time periods to coalesce the Earth through the process of accretion.


Personally, I prefer to use the logic that "if you think the earth is thousands of years old instead of billions then you are a complete idiot".
 
2012-11-19 02:57:25 PM  

gshepnyc: NO. It is not acceptable to be scientifically illiterate in this day and age and to still seek decision-making power over other people.


Exactly how many politicians do you consider "scientifically literate?" I'm gonna go with zero but leave room for the possibility there is one.
 
2012-11-19 02:57:39 PM  
Rubio will be the first to reach for a chart showing rises in carbon dioxide from volcanoes millions of years ago if necessary. They trumpet him as the future of the GOP, but it's the same old hypocrisy behind the baby face. Paul Ryan is the same way. Good luck, pretty boys.
 
2012-11-19 02:58:45 PM  

lennavan: From his answer he clearly is not. But he is also willing to pander to them. Welcome to politics.


And here is the crux of the matter.

You have spent dozens of posts defending a strawman you built when you first came into the thread. That people were "poutraged" about his comments. This isn't outrage, nobody is shocked or surprised at a Right-Wing politician pandering to ignorant religious zealots... It's MOCKERY due to Rubio supposedly being not one of these extremist Republicans who are causing losses of Senate and House seats and even the Presidency.

It's right there in the headline.

Yet you changed the debate, twice over... you changed the tone from mockery to anger, and reframed and defended his statements.

I've seen you do this quite a few times. You nitpick so that you can be technically correct from a certain angle if you throw out common sense, but your extrapolation is completely impractical and unreasonable. And here you admit that Rubio didn't just evade the question with an "I dunno", but intentionally pandered to the religious zealots in his party, which flies in the face of the claim that he's some kind of different Republican.
 
2012-11-19 02:59:13 PM  

master_dman: I don't get the outrage either.

So your absolutely positive on exactly how old the earth is?

Find me ONE scientist that says with certainty how frickin' old it is?

The only true answer is that we don't really know. We have a pretty good idea.. but thats it.


That settles it, since we can't pinpoint the age of the earth to the exact second then that means God did it. Case settled.
 
2012-11-19 02:59:41 PM  
Vote Peter Venkman in '16. He is a scientist.
 
2012-11-19 03:00:24 PM  

Fluorescent Testicle: Tricky Chicken: Wow, nice derp you got there. Let me change a couple words and you can see how dumb you look.

[community.us.playstation.com image 397x295]


Not mad so much as pointing out a "You're not helping" weak troll. Nearly half the population is conservative and they look like they will be digging in their heels. There aren't enough of them to take over, just enough to stop anything from happening. To dismiss nearly half of the populace out of hand is beyond foolhardy and is only asking for them to screw with you out of spite.
 
2012-11-19 03:00:31 PM  

lennavan: So I would love a chance to teach the "controversy."


There are a lot of controversies in science. As long as the controversies being taught were proven out via the scientific method then I am cool with 'teaching the controversy'. Has the 6000 y.o. Earth 'theory' been demonstrated using the scientific method?
 
2012-11-19 03:01:26 PM  

lennavan:

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: It's an even worse state of affairs if he believes it - how can you address issues like pollution, long term energy plans or climate change when you think "god did it" is how all that oil got underground?

Let us return to what he actually said. "I'm not a scientist, man." He wants you to ask a scientist. Take that answer and apply to your scenarios. Wouldn't it be great to have a Marco Rubio deferring to scientists when it comes to policy with respect to climate change? Have you seen what we have instead?


Which would be fine if he stopped there. But he didn't - he decided to bring the bible into it and then go on to say we should teach religion in the science classroom.

We both know why he said it - my point is that the fact there are so many people in this country who reject science that politicians in a mainstream political party can't even give a straight answer to a question like that is a big farking problem for the country now that we're in an economy heavily dependent on being ahead of the curve in science and technology.
 
2012-11-19 03:01:43 PM  
I have to agree with those who say that Rubio saying this is a step forward for Republicans. Prior to the election, he would have answered authoritatively "Potato" and Fox News would have excoriated anyone who said he was wrong.

/I also like using "excoriated" in a sentence.
 
2012-11-19 03:02:28 PM  

lennavan: I guess this is where I admit I had no idea how old the Earth was before I googled it.


"Billions" would have been a good start. I guessed 4.3 but plead not having thought about it for decades.
 
2012-11-19 03:02:38 PM  

Fluorescent Testicle: You guys know that Lennavan is (more likely than not) one of Skullkrusher's alts, right?


You know, I've never thought this, but now that you mention it, they have always both annoyed me in the same exact "Imma repeat my single cherrypicked technically correct semantic point over and over and over as if it is the only piece of evidence that needs to be considered" repetitive bullshiat way.

Dan the Schman: And here is the crux of the matter.

You have spent dozens of posts defending a strawman you built when you first came into the thread. That people were "poutraged" about his comments. This isn't outrage, nobody is shocked or surprised at a Right-Wing politician pandering to ignorant religious zealots... It's MOCKERY due to Rubio supposedly being not one of these extremist Republicans who are causing losses of Senate and House seats and even the Presidency.

It's right there in the headline.

Yet you changed the debate, twice over... you changed the tone from mockery to anger, and reframed and defended his statements.

I've seen you do this quite a few times. You nitpick so that you can be technically correct from a certain angle if you throw out common sense, but your extrapolation is completely impractical and unreasonable. And here you admit that Rubio didn't just evade the question with an "I dunno", but intentionally pandered to the religious zealots in his party, which flies in the face of the claim that he's some kind of different Republican.


That's a much better summation of what I was trying to say
 
2012-11-19 03:02:43 PM  

abb3w: lennavan: I'm struggling to see the poutrage here.

It's about "I think there are multiple theories out there on how the universe was created". From the State's education standards...

[img1.fark.net image 54x11] Benchmark SC.3.N.3.1: Recognize that words in science can have different or more specific meanings than their use in everyday language; for example, energy, cell, heat/cold, and evidence.
[img1.fark.net image 54x11] Benchmark SC.6.N.3.1: Recognize and explain that a scientific theory is a well-supported and widely accepted explanation of nature and is not simply a claim posed by an individual. Thus, the use of the term theory in science is very different than how it is used in everyday life.
[img1.fark.net image 54x11] Benchmark SC.912.N.3.1: Explain that a scientific theory is the culmination of many scientific investigations drawing together all the current evidence concerning a substantial range of phenomena; thus, a scientific theory represents the most powerful explanation scientists have to offer.

It's disappointing he's not even up to sixth-grade science.

lennavan: How many people in this thread do you think knew how old the Earth is before googling it?

I find it's hard to forget an anthropomorphic wombat discussing that with a statue of the god Ganesh.
[www.diggercomic.com image 600x800]


Beaten to the Digger reference, Argh!
 
2012-11-19 03:02:46 PM  
Rubio only pawn in game of life.
 
2012-11-19 03:03:19 PM  
In his defense, the GOP came pretty close to winning the popular vote without proposing anything more specific than "Obama bad".
If anything, Rubio's answer in this case was probably too detailed and concrete. A better choice would have been:

GQ: How old do you think the Earth is?

Answer: All of them.
 
2012-11-19 03:03:25 PM  

gshepnyc: NO. It is not acceptable to be scientifically illiterate in this day and age and to still seek decision-making power over other people. Too many decisions rely on some ability to reason and employ the scientific method. It's not just up to scientists to answer that question. You ought to be able to say, based on everything you've learned in school and in college, referring to your understanding of how everything else works in nature that you understand why the Earth is the age that that is. And it most certainly is not a question for theologians, for fark sake. It's not the farking middle ages.

What Rubio did here was demonstrate that he is willing to excuse himself from fact-based decisions.


Absolutely. He's pandering to farkwit creationists by implying an equivalence between science and superstition. I don't need a president who knows the exact age, but I do want a president who would ask a scientist - rather than a theologian - for the answer.
 
2012-11-19 03:03:35 PM  

sprawl15: DirkValentine: lennavan: I think there are multiple theories out there on how the universe was created and I think this is a country where people should have the opportunity to teach them all

lenny, i pretty much agree with most of what you post. But the above statement is bullshiat and has ZERO place in modern society.

You don't think we should debate the differences and merits of, say, M-theory versus chaotic inflation?


Listen, you aren't going to woo me with that kind of pillow talk.
 
2012-11-19 03:03:54 PM  
Wow, a politician not forcing his views down anyone else's throat? How refreshing.
 
2012-11-19 03:04:11 PM  
Tricky Chicken:
Wow, nice derp you got there. Let me change a couple words and you can see how dumb you look.

You know the worst thing about women, the WORST thing about NOW? Chicks love to not know. Nothing makes a girl happier than not knowing the answer to your question. 'Hey man, what's the capital of Kenya?' 'Shucks, I don't know that! The only 4 letters i need to know are D..W.T.and..S, just keeping it real.' Yeah, you're keeping it real, real dumb. ladies hate knowledge. shiat, if you're afraid a feminist voter will break into your house, and you wanna save your money, you know what you do? You put the money in a book. Cause ladies don't read. Books are like kryptonite to a member of NOW. 'Here's a science book.' 'NOOOOOOOOO! NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not a science book!

would have been way funnier if you used the word "n*gger"
 
2012-11-19 03:05:43 PM  

Dan the Schman: It's MOCKERY due to Rubio supposedly being not one of these extremist Republicans who are causing losses of Senate and House seats and even the Presidency.


"I'm not a scientist. I'm not qualified to answer." is your example of of an extremist Republican?

Dan the Schman: It's right there in the headline.


You might be surprised to know that a random user submitted headline on Fark.com is not factually correct.

Dan the Schman: And here you admit that Rubio didn't just evade the question with an "I dunno", but intentionally pandered to the religious zealots in his party, which flies in the face of the claim that he's some kind of different Republican.


This is what an extremist sounds like:

"In the clip, Broun, who is a doctor, says that "as a scientist" he has found data that shows the earth is no older than 9,000 years and was created in six days.

Broun also says that theories regarding the origins of the universe and evolution represent "lies to try and keep me and all the folk that were taught that from understanding that they need a saviour".


I will accept your apology.
 
2012-11-19 03:06:28 PM  

lennavan: Marco Rubio: I'm not a scientist, man. I can tell you what recorded history says, I can tell you what the Bible says, but I think that's a dispute amongst theologians and I think it has nothing to do with the gross domestic product or economic growth of the United States. I think the age of the universe has zero to do with how our economy is going to grow. I'm not a scientist. I don't think I'm qualified to answer a question like that. At the end of the day, I think there are multiple theories out there on how the universe was created and I think this is a country where people should have the opportunity to teach them all. I think parents should be able to teach their kids what their faith says, what science says. Whether the Earth was created in 7 days, or 7 actual eras, I'm not sure we'll ever be able to answer that. It's one of the great mysteries.

I'm struggling to see the poutrage here. I can't find a single portion of his statement I disagree with. Indeed, I wish all politicians echoed this exact sentiment.

He's right, he is not the correct person to answer this question, and the journalist should feel bad for asking a politician it.


fark that. He wants to claim he can (or his party) make the best choice regarding economics, well, what is he basing those choices on? I would hope it is fact based research conducted using the scientific method, but since he fails to accept science on a question like the age of the earth, why would I expect him to accept the science on something like the economy. What evidence is there that he won't do what he feels is right even if it is the totally wrong thing to do?

That is the problem with his statement.
 
2012-11-19 03:07:25 PM  

Shaggy_C: Wow, a politician not forcing his views down anyone else's throat? How refreshing.


Indeed.

And I would like to challenge any farker who knows the age of the earth to speak up now. Difficulty- I'm talking down to the minute, not this +- a few million years crap.

:-P
 
2012-11-19 03:07:26 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: Reposted from another thread because it applies here, too...

One thing the Republicans don't seem to grasp:

Even if they nominate "a Hispanic," Mexicans generally HATE Cubans, and vice-versa. And there are lots more Chicanos/Mexicans/Mexican-Americans in the US than Cubans. Rubio might carry Florida, but "the hispanic vote" won't go Republican in any other state.

So, keep talking Rubio. Remind us why we voted for Obama again.


This is the reason why the GOP will never get it. They lump Koreans with Japanese with Chinese, not realizing that the Koreans and the Chinese hate the Japanese for what the Japanese did to them in the 1930s. The GOP lump the Hutus and the Tutsis like they're just all "black". They lump the mexicans with the cubans as the generic "hispanics". They lump Ukrainians with Russians not realizing that Ukrainians hate what Russia did to their country right after WWII. They lump Poles with Bulgarians not realizing that they speak completely different languages. They lump Iranians and Iraqis, not realizing one group is semitic with a semitic language and are primarily Sunnis and the other is oriental (asian-ish) with an asian language and are primarily Shi'ites. How they can do international diplomacy is beyond me.
 
2012-11-19 03:07:29 PM  

master_dman: So your absolutely positive on exactly how old the earth is?

Find me ONE scientist that says with certainty how frickin' old it is?


More proof that America's educational system is on straight decline into the shiatter.
 
2012-11-19 03:08:02 PM  

Shaggy_C: Wow, a politician not forcing his views down anyone else's throat? How refreshing.


Did you have a weird boner when you wrote that?

And as far as "views" go, the age of the earth isn't an opinion. It's a knowable factual thing. You are entitled to your own views, but you are not entitled to your own facts.
 
2012-11-19 03:08:15 PM  

Isitoveryet: Rubio only pawn in game of life.


*Snerk.*

/Thanks for making me laugh during a Comparative Religions class.
//Now all the Jews hate me.
 
2012-11-19 03:08:39 PM  
 
2012-11-19 03:08:56 PM  

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: then go on to say we should teach religion in the science classroom.


Where did you get that from?

Ctrl-Alt-Del: You know, I've never thought this, but now that you mention it, they have always both annoyed me in the same exact "Imma repeat my single cherrypicked technically correct semantic point over and over and over as if it is the only piece of evidence that needs to be considered" repetitive bullshiat way.


Wait til you see when both of us are in the same thread. By the way, you do realize you just admitted in those scenarios, we're correct (though he usually isn't). Why is it that we keep hammering the point over and over? Oh right, because the person who is completely wrong never accepts we're right so we can move on.

For instance in this thread, people think Rubio's "7 days" comment refers to the age of the Earth. That is completely false. Yet it keeps coming up over and over again. How can you discuss what Rubio meant with someone who has a fundamentally incorrect view of what he said?
 
2012-11-19 03:08:58 PM  

Pincy:
Personally, I prefer to use the logic that "if you think the earth is thousands of years old instead of billions then you are a complete idiot".


I would disagree with your "if" "then" statement. In your set up they posited an assertion that the earth is thousands of years old. It is then incumbent upon them to defend their statement. In my experience all of their arguments will eventually reduce to a variant of 'because this book says so'. I would then like to see some argument in favor of the vreacity of their book. Something more than 'because it is very old'.
 
2012-11-19 03:09:15 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: lennavan: GAT_00: That's lennavan's entire argument more or less. To be uneducated and to openly proclaim it is suddenly educated.

Admitting you don't know something is a good thing. I'm sorry you don't realize that. I really am.

He didn't admit that HE didn't know something. He said that "science" doesn't know.


This is where everyone is getting confused in this thread. It's quite hilarious to watch.
 
2012-11-19 03:10:14 PM  

lennavan: Dan the Schman: It's MOCKERY due to Rubio supposedly being not one of these extremist Republicans who are causing losses of Senate and House seats and even the Presidency.

"I'm not a scientist. I'm not qualified to answer." is your example of of an extremist Republican?


No, "There are a variety of theories as to the age of the earth, including theological ones and we should teach them all because the God theory could be the correct one" is an example of an idiot Republican.
 
2012-11-19 03:10:26 PM  

Anti_illuminati: This is where everyone is getting confused in this thread. It's quite hilarious to watch.


It's not even confused. lennavan's outright ignoring the half dozen times I've showed the exact quotes Rubio said.
 
2012-11-19 03:11:10 PM  

lennavan: "I'm not a scientist. I'm not qualified to answer." is your example of of an extremist Republican?


"I'm not a scientist. I'm not qualified to answer. Here's the religious view on the subject, which I believe should be treated with equal validity" is what he said. Since this is indistinguishable from the views of extremist Republicans on this issue, then yes, the label is accurate.
 
2012-11-19 03:12:00 PM  
"At the end of the day, I think there are multiple theories out there on how the universe was created and I think this is a country where people should have the opportunity to teach them all. I think parents should be able to teach their kids what their faith says, what science says. Whether the Earth was created in 7 days, or 7 actual eras, I'm not sure we'll ever be able to answer that. It's one of the great mysteries."

That's the part of his answer that bothers me. This is pure creationism.You don't have to remember what is the estimate age of the earth, but at least have some order of magnitude correct in your answer. Saying 7 days or 7 eras is just pandering to the religious crazies.
 
2012-11-19 03:12:26 PM  

lennavan: Tigger: In order to not be sure how old the earth is you have to be in the "total farking moron with no business doing anything more important than sticking your cock in a toaster" level of farkwittage.

How many people in this thread do you think knew how old the Earth is before googling it? I'm thinkin, on the spot, without access to Google, I also would have said "Farked if I know, I'm not the right person to ask." And I'm a scientist.

Tigger: This isn't "a topic he shouldn't know about" this is "a topic that is basic knowledge in 2012".

I guess this is where I admit I had no idea how old the Earth was before I googled it. I assume you did though, right? Because that would be hilariously hypocritical of you and would totally undermine your point right now and everyone reading this back-and-forth who also didn't know the number off of the top of their head is going to agree with this run-on sentence. But I'm sure you knew.


Knowing the age of the earth is basically a pointless trivial factoid. But it's a factoid that most people know in the same way that they know the speed of light is about 186,000 miles/second, that Mt Everest is 29K and change above sea level, that Columbus came to the New World in 1492 and not 1942, and that 6 million jews were killed in the holocaust during WWII. No one except scientist, geographers and historians really need to know those factoids. But because we grew up learning things and being educated, we learn these factoids just in case we get chosen to be on Jeopardy or Who Wants To Be A Millionaire.
 
2012-11-19 03:12:38 PM  

Dr. Whoof: Prior to the election, he would have answered authoritatively "Potato" and Fox News would have excoriated anyone who said he was wrong.


You must have missed the part where he answered "that won't help us with economic growth."
 
2012-11-19 03:12:38 PM  

Bloody William: Anti_illuminati: This is where everyone is getting confused in this thread. It's quite hilarious to watch.

It's not even confused. lennavan's outright ignoring the half dozen times I've showed the exact quotes Rubio said.


Well, look on the bright side, it gives us all something to do as we avoid working on these couple of days before the Thanksgiving break. I salute your dedicated to sophistry, len, I'd probably be bored without it.
 
2012-11-19 03:13:04 PM  
"Whether the Earth was created in 7 days"

6 days, you Papist heathen.
 
2012-11-19 03:13:17 PM  

dericwater: that Mt Everest is 29K


Wait, which peak of Mt. Everest?
 
2012-11-19 03:13:21 PM  

lennavan: Let us return to what he actually said. "I'm not a scientist, man."


...said the senator who sits on both the Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation and Subcommittee on Science and Space.

Yeah, so he thinks there might be some validity to the idea that the world is a disc that rides on the back of a cosmic turtle. Big deal, amirite?
 
2012-11-19 03:13:30 PM  
genealogyreligion.net
It's turtles all the way down.
 
2012-11-19 03:13:34 PM  

Rent Party: And as far as "views" go, the age of the earth isn't an opinion. It's a knowable factual thing. You are entitled to your own views, but you are not entitled to your own facts.


He didn't state any facts, just vague generalities aimed at pandering to the right-wing Evangelicals while not alienating himself from the rest of the country. The only "fact" that he listed was that there are many different theories out there. It's a dumb question to begin with, why not just ask if he interprets the bible literally instead of trying to make it seem like a science question?
 
2012-11-19 03:14:38 PM  

dericwater: lennavan: Tigger: In order to not be sure how old the earth is you have to be in the "total farking moron with no business doing anything more important than sticking your cock in a toaster" level of farkwittage.

How many people in this thread do you think knew how old the Earth is before googling it? I'm thinkin, on the spot, without access to Google, I also would have said "Farked if I know, I'm not the right person to ask." And I'm a scientist.

Tigger: This isn't "a topic he shouldn't know about" this is "a topic that is basic knowledge in 2012".

I guess this is where I admit I had no idea how old the Earth was before I googled it. I assume you did though, right? Because that would be hilariously hypocritical of you and would totally undermine your point right now and everyone reading this back-and-forth who also didn't know the number off of the top of their head is going to agree with this run-on sentence. But I'm sure you knew.

Knowing the age of the earth is basically a pointless trivial factoid. But it's a factoid that most people know in the same way that they know the speed of light is about 186,000 miles/second, that Mt Everest is 29K and change above sea level, that Columbus came to the New World in 1492 and not 1942, and that 6 million jews were killed in the holocaust during WWII. No one except scientist, geographers and historians really need to know those factoids. But because we grew up learning things and being educated, we learn these factoids just in case we get chosen to be on Jeopardy or Who Wants To Be A Millionaire.


If you use the original meaning of factoid this post is way funnier.
 
2012-11-19 03:15:18 PM  
Continual campaign cycle. No breaks, ever.
 
2012-11-19 03:15:43 PM  

lennavan: joshiz: Wrong...it speaks to someone's belief in science which to me is very important. It is a very valid question.

And he answered it by saying: "Ask a scientist." That fundamentally tells you he believes in science and that we should defer to science when asking such science questions.

If he answered it right, if he said 4.5 billion years, would that hold any weight? No. Because he is not a scientist. Put it this way, what if the journalist asked "what is the genetic cause of Down Syndrome" and he replied "an extra copy of Dyrk1a." Is that true or false? You have no idea. That some random politician answered a science question doesn't give it any extra weight. He's a farking politician, if you're getting science information from politicians, you're an idiot. So he's the smart one telling you to ask a farking scientist.


The age of the earth is on the same level of "specialized scientific knowledge" as germ theory is currently known. If someone asked Rubio what is the cause of the common cold and he said it's a virus, people would (should) know that he said the right thing. If he said it's because the demons are trying to break out of one's body, people should know that he's kidding or shouldn't be anywhere close to the red buttons. If he said it's a mystery, then we know he's an idiot. It's not a mystery.
 
2012-11-19 03:15:53 PM  

dletter: I think the age of the universe has zero to do with how our economy is going to grow.

Actually, this has everything to do with it.... when you wonder why we are getting our asses handed to ourselves as far as U.S. students vs. the other major countries in science and math scores, when you can't have an agreement from the top on fairly basic level science issues, that kills off a large number of kids who are raised to believe that, in their ability to get into those fields at a fundamental level.

This isn't an argument about whether the earth is 4.4 billion years old or 4.7 billion years old. This is an argument between 4.4 billion and 10,000. One side has decades or even centuries of data to fall back on. The other side has a book that they don't want to become irrelevant as their only basis.

The fact that we even give people saying the earth is 10,000 years old the time of day is a sad state of american discourse.


WIN
 
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