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(Talking Points Memo)   Marco Rubio, shining star of The New Improved Modern GOP, thinks the age of the Earth is "one of the great mysteries"   (livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 622
    More: Sad, Marco Rubio, GOP  
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3989 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Nov 2012 at 2:07 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-19 02:34:42 PM  

Rent Party: Weaver95: Rent Party: This is simply the new strategy for the GOP. They've realized their nutty assed beliefs scare the crap out of the common man, so they're going back to the old "Don't tell people what you actually believe" strategy.

You're going to hear a lot of "I dunno! People should look into that!" answers from these clowns over the coming months.

can the GOP stuff that genie back in the bottle tho? i'm not convinced it'll play out well.

With the American electorate? We are a nation that is happy to believe we have always been at war with Eastasia. Two years from now, the GOP will deny that there was ever a genie to begin with, and people will believe it.


problem with that is while almost everyone will easily forget boring minutia on policy details almost NOBODY forgets it when Rush Limbaugh gets in their faces and calls them fat, lazy assholes. And that's what the GOP pundocracy is doing right now - yelling and screaming about how stupid voters are for not picking Romney.
 
2012-11-19 02:34:53 PM  

GAT_00: That's lennavan's entire argument more or less. To be uneducated and to openly proclaim it is suddenly educated.


Admitting you don't know something is a good thing. I'm sorry you don't realize that. I really am.
 
2012-11-19 02:35:04 PM  
What I've taken away from this is neither Rubio nor Lennavan are educated enough to hold office.
 
2012-11-19 02:35:50 PM  

Fluorescent Testicle: You guys know that Lennavan is (more likely than not) one of Skullkrusher's alts, right?


leatherfootthong.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-11-19 02:35:56 PM  

lennavan: Corvus: lennavan: How many people in this thread do you think knew how old the Earth is before googling it? I'm thinkin, on the spot, without access to Google, I also would have said "Farked if I know, I'm not the right person to ask." And I'm a scientist.

but that's not the issue. The question is How many people in this thread know that SCIENTISTS know the age of the earth.

Marco Rubio also knows scientists know that answer. He said so, twice.

Relax, trust me, we will have ample opportunity to hate on the GOP. We'll have ample opportunity to hate on Rubio too.


He said:

Whether the Earth was created in 7 days, or 7 actual eras, I'm not sure we'll ever be able to answer that. It's one of the great mysteries.

That's demonstrably false. There is actual geological evidence of long eras forming the earth we know as it is today. They are not disputed by the scientific community.

He didn't say "I don't know, ask a scientist." He said, "I don't know, but it could be either a scientist or a priest who might have the right answer, I don't want to piss of the conservatives who will vote for me."
 
2012-11-19 02:36:33 PM  

Headso: You know the worst thing about Republicans, the WORST thing about the GOP? Republicans love to not know. Nothing makes a conservative happier than not knowing the answer to your question. 'Hey man, what's the capital of Kenya?' 'Shucks, I don't know that! The only 3 letters i need to know are U..S..and..A, just keeping it real.' Yeah, you're keeping it real, real dumb. Republicans hate knowledge. shiat, if you're afraid a Romney voter will break into your house, and you wanna save your money, you know what you do? You put the money in a book. Cause conservatives don't read. Books are like kryptonite to a member of the GOP. 'Here's a science book.' 'NOOOOOOOOO! NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not a science book!'"


I see what you did there...
 
2012-11-19 02:36:53 PM  
You know, I was sad when Rubio died in Hook.
 
2012-11-19 02:36:58 PM  

lennavan: GAT_00: That's lennavan's entire argument more or less. To be uneducated and to openly proclaim it is suddenly educated.

Admitting you don't know something is a good thing. I'm sorry you don't realize that. I really am.


Right, but once again that's not only what he did. Then he went on to say no one really knows the answer and that people who think the earth is 4000 years old belief is as valid as scientists.

You keep pretending that part didn't happen.
 
2012-11-19 02:37:01 PM  

lennavan: Let me tell you, if the GOP starts saying "I don't know" that is a huge step forward. If next the GOP says "I don't know, let's ask some experts" well holy fark, that GOP will be absolutely unrecognizable.


That would be nice, but I don't think we should give them much credit for "I don't know, but it might be something really farking stupid, and that deserves as much consideration as the thing that is backed up by science."
 
2012-11-19 02:37:31 PM  

Pincy: dugitman: A lot of outrage over a politician side-stepping a thinly-veiled theological question. 
 
Lennavan
 
[i107.photobucket.com image 270x203]

The age of the earth isn't a theological question. If you think it is then you are a retard.


Actually, it is a very valid theological question. If your god is all powerful, then he can easily manipulate the way objects are percieved over time. He could manipulate time in any way he wished. If you accept the dogma of your church when they tell you the Earth if 5,000 years old then that is a purely acceptable theological position. If a god can create a universe, he can alter the ratios of C-12 and C-14 in any way he chooses.


If somebody believes in magic, then there is no topic that cannot be explained with magic.

You seem to have more of an issue with theological explanations questions in general.

Personally I prefer to use a bit of Occam's razor in my approach.
A. An omnipotent being that I do not understand and cannot detect used magic to create the Earth.
B. Gravity acted over massive time periods to coalesce the Earth through the process of accretion.
 
2012-11-19 02:39:10 PM  

The Bad Astronomer: FWIW I just wrote a blog post eviscerating Rubio.

Man, this kind of stuff pisses me off to no end.

/Yes, I just quoted Lo Pan.


Awesome
 
2012-11-19 02:39:20 PM  

Tigger: What I've taken away from this is neither Rubio nor Lennavan are educated enough to hold office.


I'd be one of those guys who admits he doesn't know. Like when a vote came up about stimulating the economy or regulating the banks and whatnot, I'd be like "Got me, I'm not an economist. Let's call some and ask." But you're right, that would be truly outrageous, we don't need leaders like that.
 
2012-11-19 02:39:54 PM  

lennavan: Tigger: In order to not be sure how old the earth is you have to be in the "total farking moron with no business doing anything more important than sticking your cock in a toaster" level of farkwittage.

How many people in this thread do you think knew how old the Earth is before googling it? I'm thinkin, on the spot, without access to Google, I also would have said "Farked if I know, I'm not the right person to ask." And I'm a scientist.


Normally that would be a fair point, but in this instance he went out of his way to bring creationism into his answer - more than once. His answer wasn't 'I dunno man, a few billion years? A few hundred million?' it was (to paraphrase) 'who knows - could be billions of years old, could be 6000 years and god buried those fossils to mess with us - teach the controversy.'

He seems like a smart guy and I'd be surprised if he really is a young earth creationist but it's a sad and worrying state of affairs when a serious contender for the presidency has to pander to people who believe the earth is a few thousand years old in order to have a future in politics. It's an even worse state of affairs if he believes it - how can you address issues like pollution, long term energy plans or climate change when you think "god did it" is how all that oil got underground?
 
2012-11-19 02:40:08 PM  

lennavan: Rent Party: You're going to hear a lot of "I dunno! People should look into that!" answers from these clowns over the coming months.

Let me tell you, if the GOP starts saying "I don't know" that is a huge step forward. If next the GOP says "I don't know, let's ask some experts" well holy fark, that GOP will be absolutely unrecognizable.

I love that you mock it though. Presumably you prefer the one that says shiat like "you can't get pregnant from rape" and "global warming doesn't exist."



Jesus, can your expectations get any lower? I'm not into rewarding "C" students because they're no longer "D" students. And I'm not into giving someone a cookie for acknowledging that science exists, or that MAYBE he was wrong about the vagina's ability to evict rape sperm. No sir, I'm not giving the brownie points.
 
2012-11-19 02:40:45 PM  
www.ethannonsequitur.com

Don't say that it could be any answer when once answer is clearly better supported than the other.

Tricky Chicken: Actually, it is a very valid theological question. If your god is all powerful, then he can easily manipulate the way objects are percieved over time. He could manipulate time in any way he wished. If you accept the dogma of your church when they tell you the Earth if 5,000 years old then that is a purely acceptable theological position. If a god can create a universe, he can alter the ratios of C-12 and C-14 in any way he chooses.


If somebody believes in magic, then there is no topic that cannot be explained with magic.

You seem to have more of an issue with theological explanations questions in general.

Personally I prefer to use a bit of Occam's razor in my approach.
A. An omnipotent being that I do not understand and cannot detect used magic to create the Earth.
B. Gravity acted over massive time periods to coalesce the Earth through the process of accretion.


It's a theist-deist problem. If a god is all-powerful, that's one thing. If a god is all-powerful and all-subtle, then why bother with him?
 
2012-11-19 02:40:53 PM  

Weaver95:
problem with that is while almost everyone will easily forget boring minutia on policy details almost NOBODY forgets it when Rush Limbaugh gets in their faces and calls them fat, lazy assholes. And that's what the GOP pundocracy is doing right now - yelling and screaming about how stupid voters are for not picking Romney.


You might be right, but GOP temper tantrums over elections have been ramping up since Clinton first got elected. That's what made Rush in the first place. And we still managed to elect George Bush once in the meantime.

We have very short memories. The GOP's entire election campaign was essentially "The Democrats haven't cleaned up our mess fast enough." And 47.8% of the people were dumb enough to believe it.
 
2012-11-19 02:41:26 PM  

Tigger: What I've taken away from this is neither Rubio nor Lennavan are educated enough to hold office.


I've learned that "I'm not a scientist, but..." is the new "I'm not a racist, but..."
 
2012-11-19 02:41:26 PM  
Why a Roman Catholic politician like Rubio would be afraid to publicly support some scientific facts that the Vatican itself has no problem with in the first place?

To pander the derpish base of his ignorant and anti-intellectual party? sad. indeed.
 
2012-11-19 02:42:12 PM  

Corvus: lennavan: GAT_00: That's lennavan's entire argument more or less. To be uneducated and to openly proclaim it is suddenly educated.

Admitting you don't know something is a good thing. I'm sorry you don't realize that. I really am.

Right, but once again that's not only what he did. Then he went on to say no one really knows the answer and that people who think the earth is 4000 years old belief is as valid as scientists.

You keep pretending that part didn't happen.


What he could have said: "Whether you're looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity is above my pay grade."
 
2012-11-19 02:43:01 PM  
I've always had a bit of difficulty with the age of the Earth. It seems so preposterous. The universe itself is 13.7 billion years old. Some people take issue with this bit of evidence or that bit of evidence, but then they go back and review some of their calculations and find that they made some mistakes. It seems pretty clear that it's 13.7 billion years old. I get that, and I can accept it.

But then people tell me that the Earth itself is 4.5 billion years old. That's an incredible statement! That means that the Earth itself is about one-third the age of the entire universe. The universe has been in a state of flux so great that entire solar systems have been created and destroyed in the first 8 billion years, but our own Earth has stayed the same for half that time already. Our sun is almost the same age.

Life took only about a billion years to start forming here, but it took another 3 billion years to evolve from single-celled organisms to, well, anything else. And it took longer for those Cambrian organisms to evolve into man than it took the Earth to find its home around the Sun.

If you tell me that the Earth is a third of the age of the universe, I don't know how I can wrap my head around that. It's the only way the math works, but I've never been able to accept it. It's just too amazing.
 
2012-11-19 02:43:37 PM  

Weaver95: Cuthbert Allgood: The Repubs have a tenuous grasp on reality, me thinks.

you should hear Limbaugh today. one of his talking points is that 'libruls' were afraid of the GOP convention. which is flat out delusional.


Let's make sure they actually believe that.

Hold the course, Repubs! We liberals are teh scared and frightened! You've got us right where you want us!
 
2012-11-19 02:43:38 PM  

lennavan: I think there are multiple theories out there on how the universe was created and I think this is a country where people should have the opportunity to teach them all


lenny, i pretty much agree with most of what you post. But the above statement is bullshiat and has ZERO place in modern society.
 
2012-11-19 02:43:42 PM  

lennavan: Tigger: What I've taken away from this is neither Rubio nor Lennavan are educated enough to hold office.

I'd be one of those guys who admits he doesn't know. Like when a vote came up about stimulating the economy or regulating the banks and whatnot, I'd be like "Got me, I'm not an economist. Let's call some and ask." But you're right, that would be truly outrageous, we don't need leaders like that.


We do not need leaders like either you or Rubio who seem to think it's totally ok to pretend that you're just not sure about something because there's a fake debate between 'science' and 'theologians'.

He described something as a "great mystery" which isn't. At all.

Again the interesting question for me is why you need to defend him so. Couldn't you just say "Look he has a lot of religious people in his base who think the world is 6,0000 years old so he dodged the question"?

I mean what about saying that is so painful?
 
2012-11-19 02:43:46 PM  
So, since he's capable of forming opinions about economics, does that mean he's an economist?

Bucket head.
 
2012-11-19 02:44:26 PM  

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: Normally that would be a fair point, but in this instance he went out of his way to bring creationism into his answer


What exactly do you think the question was getting at? A magazine is interviewing a politician and asks how old the earth is. He didn't exactly go out of his way.

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: He seems like a smart guy and I'd be surprised if he really is a young earth creationist


From his answer he clearly is not. But he is also willing to pander to them. Welcome to politics.

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: It's an even worse state of affairs if he believes it - how can you address issues like pollution, long term energy plans or climate change when you think "god did it" is how all that oil got underground?


Let us return to what he actually said. "I'm not a scientist, man." He wants you to ask a scientist. Take that answer and apply to your scenarios. Wouldn't it be great to have a Marco Rubio deferring to scientists when it comes to policy with respect to climate change? Have you seen what we have instead?
 
2012-11-19 02:44:54 PM  

Headso: You know the worst thing about Republicans, the WORST thing about the GOP? Republicans love to not know. Nothing makes a conservative happier than not knowing the answer to your question. 'Hey man, what's the capital of Kenya?' 'Shucks, I don't know that! The only 3 letters i need to know are U..S..and..A, just keeping it real.' Yeah, you're keeping it real, real dumb. Republicans hate knowledge. shiat, if you're afraid a Romney voter will break into your house, and you wanna save your money, you know what you do? You put the money in a book. Cause conservatives don't read. Books are like kryptonite to a member of the GOP. 'Here's a science book.' 'NOOOOOOOOO! NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not a science book!'"


Wow, nice derp you got there. Let me change a couple words and you can see how dumb you look.

You know the worst thing about women, the WORST thing about NOW? Chicks love to not know. Nothing makes a girl happier than not knowing the answer to your question. 'Hey man, what's the capital of Kenya?' 'Shucks, I don't know that! The only 4 letters i need to know are D..W.T.and..S, just keeping it real.' Yeah, you're keeping it real, real dumb. ladies hate knowledge. shiat, if you're afraid a feminist voter will break into your house, and you wanna save your money, you know what you do? You put the money in a book. Cause ladies don't read. Books are like kryptonite to a member of NOW. 'Here's a science book.' 'NOOOOOOOOO! NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not a science book!
 
2012-11-19 02:45:25 PM  

Rent Party: Weaver95:
problem with that is while almost everyone will easily forget boring minutia on policy details almost NOBODY forgets it when Rush Limbaugh gets in their faces and calls them fat, lazy assholes. And that's what the GOP pundocracy is doing right now - yelling and screaming about how stupid voters are for not picking Romney.

You might be right, but GOP temper tantrums over elections have been ramping up since Clinton first got elected. That's what made Rush in the first place. And we still managed to elect George Bush once in the meantime.

We have very short memories. The GOP's entire election campaign was essentially "The Democrats haven't cleaned up our mess fast enough." And 47.8% of the people were dumb enough to believe it.


i'm not disagreeing with you here but I do want to point out that I've NEVER seen this level of sheer asshole-ish behavior from the GOP pundits before. radio, TV and internet forces are coordinated in their 24/7 poutrage and working hard to alienate as many voters as they can reach.

i'm also pretty sure that quite a lot of Republican rank and file are quietly voting Democrat when nobody's watching 'em. will any of this translate into more GOP defeats? f*ck man, got me. i'm just an opinionated guy on the internets. But I hope it does.
 
2012-11-19 02:45:43 PM  
Our current estimate is based on the assumption that the rate of nuclear decay and the speed of light have always been constant... back to what 4.2 billion years?.. so we are basically taking say an observation of 2.3244e-9% of the timespan and saying that is good enough.

Who knows, in the future we may be able to observe some phenonom that may change our view by either making it longer or shorter.

But to me, the 4.2 billion year folks better watch out or they will become nothing more than the flat earthers of this generation.

What bothers me with Christians most is that when they take the bible litterally they tend to forget whom the scriptures were written to in the first place. i.e. if God told Moses that it took a billion years for something to happen, do you think Moses or any of the Israelites would have understood that number?... let alone have a way to describe it?
 
2012-11-19 02:46:24 PM  
What are you plans to address climate change?

"I'm not a scientist, man."

Do you think alternative energy can be made viable?

"I'm not a scientist, man."

When does life begin?

"I'm not a scientist, man."

Do you understand how a cyberattack could bring down our economy and infrastructure?

"I'm not a scientist, man."

Is the world flat?

"I'm not a scientist, man."
 
2012-11-19 02:46:40 PM  
Pffft, more gotcha questions from the brainstream media. Go read a book, nerds!
 
2012-11-19 02:47:06 PM  

DirkValentine: lennavan: I think there are multiple theories out there on how the universe was created and I think this is a country where people should have the opportunity to teach them all

lenny, i pretty much agree with most of what you post. But the above statement is bullshiat and has ZERO place in modern society.


Assume you are the science teacher at every school, explaining the difference between science and religion, facts and faith and how science uses theory and religion uses theory. You don't think that would be okay? Indeed, you don't think having the opportunity to juxtapose those would be a good thing?

Religion is a huge part of modern society, whether you like it or not. I don't. So I would love a chance to teach the "controversy."
 
2012-11-19 02:47:21 PM  

lennavan: Marco Rubio: I'm not a scientist, man. I can tell you what recorded history says, I can tell you what the Bible says, but I think that's a dispute amongst theologians and I think it has nothing to do with the gross domestic product or economic growth of the United States. I think the age of the universe has zero to do with how our economy is going to grow. I'm not a scientist. I don't think I'm qualified to answer a question like that. At the end of the day, I think there are multiple theories out there on how the universe was created and I think this is a country where people should have the opportunity to teach them all. I think parents should be able to teach their kids what their faith says, what science says. Whether the Earth was created in 7 days, or 7 actual eras, I'm not sure we'll ever be able to answer that. It's one of the great mysteries.

I'm struggling to see the poutrage here. I can't find a single portion of his statement I disagree with. Indeed, I wish all politicians echoed this exact sentiment.

He's right, he is not the correct person to answer this question, and the journalist should feel bad for asking a politician it.


NO. It is not acceptable to be scientifically illiterate in this day and age and to still seek decision-making power over other people. Too many decisions rely on some ability to reason and employ the scientific method. It's not just up to scientists to answer that question. You ought to be able to say, based on everything you've learned in school and in college, referring to your understanding of how everything else works in nature that you understand why the Earth is the age that that is. And it most certainly is not a question for theologians, for fark sake. It's not the farking middle ages.

What Rubio did here was demonstrate that he is willing to excuse himself from fact-based decisions.
 
2012-11-19 02:49:03 PM  
Rubio knew it was a trick question. Had he said earth is 4.54 billion years old then the libtards would have punished him for not saying earth is 4.5323 billion years, 3 months and 7 days, 14 housrs and 12 minutes old.
 
2012-11-19 02:49:09 PM  

lennavan: Assume you are the science teacher at every school, explaining the difference between science and religion, facts and faith and how science uses theory and religion uses theory. You don't think that would be okay? Indeed, you don't think having the opportunity to juxtapose those would be a good thing?

Religion is a huge part of modern society, whether you like it or not. I don't. So I would love a chance to teach the "controversy."


Juxtaposing those things only makes faith look bad by not having any evidence and weakens science by putting it up against things with absolutely no material evidence.

They are two different things, and it is a disservice to say "I don't know what the truth is, but this unsupported belief that's been passed down as tradition over generations is just as valid as these observations made that actually look at how the world works."

Religion is a huge part of modern society. I don't think that's a reason we should coddle it and hold it up as being equal to science in terms of describing reality..
 
2012-11-19 02:49:12 PM  

Tricky Chicken: Wow, nice derp you got there. Let me change a couple words and you can see how dumb you look.


community.us.playstation.com
 
2012-11-19 02:49:51 PM  

lennavan: dletter: Again, though, if he would have said "I think somewhere around 50 million years old" even... at least we know he isn't thinking it is 10,000 years old.

What the fark is so wrong with admitting you don't know? Why is this so egregious?

GQ: How old do you think the Earth is?
Marco Rubio: I'm not a scientist, man.

dletter: Lennavan... you don't need a scientist there to answer what the question was really trying to figure out from Rubio..... and only an idiot doesn't know what the real meaning behind the question was.

Perhaps that is why he continued on talking about teaching faith and science after saying "I'm not a scientist" right? I think if you stopped searching really hard for something to hate on Rubio for, you'd realize this isn't really that bad. No worries, there will be plenty of opportunity in the future. But this isn't it.


If he had said "I don't know" that would be fine. He actually said "I don't know, but..." and then started mouth-farting about the Bible and theologians as if those things were at all relevant to answering the question.
 
2012-11-19 02:49:54 PM  

DirkValentine: lennavan: I think there are multiple theories out there on how the universe was created and I think this is a country where people should have the opportunity to teach them all

lenny, i pretty much agree with most of what you post. But the above statement is bullshiat and has ZERO place in modern society.


You don't think we should debate the differences and merits of, say, M-theory versus chaotic inflation?
 
2012-11-19 02:50:17 PM  

lennavan: How would you defer to scientists if you did not remember the 4.5 billion number? Would it be something like "I'm not a scientist, man?"


Yes, I'm sure it was the fact that he couldn't recall the exact figure that was the problem. Nor did Senator Rubio need to cite any figures, if he couldn't recall them, in his answer; he could have left it at "I'm not a scientist, man" but he didn't, preferring instead to deliberately introduce theology into his answer.

lennavan: The religious ideas are indeed still debated amongst theologians. If you re-read his statement, you will realize that is what he is referring to as debated:


He wasn't asked a religious question, he was asked a scientific question. The only reason to bring theology into the debate at all is to intentionally muddy the waters.

lennavan: "I'm not a scientist, man... I'm not a scientist. I don't think I'm qualified to answer a question like that."

Nope, no sense of deference at all.


Except he then gave an answer that was heavy on theology and contained only passing references to science. Saying "that's a science question and I don't know the answer, but here's the religious view" is not deference in any sense of the word.
 
2012-11-19 02:51:09 PM  

lennavan: DirkValentine: lennavan: I think there are multiple theories out there on how the universe was created and I think this is a country where people should have the opportunity to teach them all

lenny, i pretty much agree with most of what you post. But the above statement is bullshiat and has ZERO place in modern society.

Assume you are the science teacher at every school, explaining the difference between science and religion, facts and faith and how science uses theory and religion uses theory. You don't think that would be okay? Indeed, you don't think having the opportunity to juxtapose those would be a good thing?

Religion is a huge part of modern society, whether you like it or not. I don't. So I would love a chance to teach the "controversy."


It's only a huge

lennavan: DirkValentine: lennavan: I think there are multiple theories out there on how the universe was created and I think this is a country where people should have the opportunity to teach them all

lenny, i pretty much agree with most of what you post. But the above statement is bullshiat and has ZERO place in modern society.

Assume you are the science teacher at every school, explaining the difference between science and religion, facts and faith and how science uses theory and religion uses theory. You don't think that would be okay? Indeed, you don't think having the opportunity to juxtapose those would be a good thing?

Religion is a huge part of modern society, whether you like it or not. I don't. So I would love a chance to teach the "controversy."


And now we're at the bottom of it.

It all comes down to "I want to teach retarded bullshiat in science class"

I knew we'd get you there in the end.
 
2012-11-19 02:52:05 PM  
From what I gather, here in the US, people are entitled to their beliefs. They have the right to believe that utter fabrications are facts. They have the right to simultaneously hold those beliefs, vote for others who hold those beliefs, and also hold public office while believing those beliefs. As long as no existing laws are broken, they even have the right to set policy based on or guided by their beliefs.They have the right to instill those beliefs in their children, and gather together to reinforce those beliefs in each other.

This isn't going away.
 
2012-11-19 02:52:07 PM  
I don't get the outrage either.

So your absolutely positive on exactly how old the earth is?

Find me ONE scientist that says with certainty how frickin' old it is?

The only true answer is that we don't really know. We have a pretty good idea.. but thats it.
 
2012-11-19 02:52:23 PM  

Weaver95:
We have very short memories. The GOP's entire election campaign was essentially "The Democrats haven't cleaned up our mess fast enough." And 47.8% of the people were dumb enough to believe it.

i'm not disagreeing with you here but I do want to point out that I've NEVER seen this level of sheer asshole-ish behavior from the GOP pundits before. radio, TV and internet forces are coordinated in their 24/7 poutrage and working hard to alienate as many voters as they can reach.


Oh yeah, well I'm not disagreeing with you either, man!

The rhetoric on the right will continue to ramp up as they become more and more radical and therefore more marginalized. They have to get louder so people will continue to pay attention to them.
 
2012-11-19 02:52:32 PM  
controversy.wearscience.com
 
2012-11-19 02:52:38 PM  
www.csmonitor.com

Keep pandering GOP, this worked so well last time
 
2012-11-19 02:52:51 PM  

lennavan: "I'm not a scientist, man... I'm not a scientist. I don't think I'm qualified to answer a question like that."

Nope, no sense of deference at all.


And this is why you're a liar:

At the end of the day, I think there are multiple theories out there on how the universe was created and I think this is a country where people should have the opportunity to teach them all. I think parents should be able to teach their kids what their faith says, what science says. Whether the Earth was created in 7 days, or 7 actual eras, I'm not sure we'll ever be able to answer that. It's one of the great mysteries.

That doesn't show deference to scientists. That shows that he's willing to give religious beliefs the same credence in terms of reality as scientific observations.
 
2012-11-19 02:53:13 PM  

lennavan: GAT_00: That's lennavan's entire argument more or less. To be uneducated and to openly proclaim it is suddenly educated.

Admitting you don't know something is a good thing. I'm sorry you don't realize that. I really am.


He didn't admit that HE didn't know something. He said that "science" doesn't know.
 
2012-11-19 02:53:23 PM  

Bloody William: [www.ethannonsequitur.com image 499x720]

It's a theist-deist problem. If a god is all-powerful, that's one thing. If a god is all-powerful and all-subtle, then why bother with him?


Oh, I don't wish to justify or explain any particular theological belief set. I just think that as soon as somebody chooses to accept any divinity based belief structure then there is no scientific process that cannot also be explained by magic. I have no idea why you would want to bother with a subtle god. If I am forced to choose a theology, I will go with a god that became self aware and created the big bang and all the rules of physics in that instant to see what would eventually happen.
 
2012-11-19 02:53:24 PM  

Tigger: He described something as a "great mystery" which isn't. At all.


The great mystery to which he referred is the beginning of existence. Not the age of the Earth.

Tigger: Again the interesting question for me is why you need to defend him so.


Because the guy essentially said "I don't know, ask a scientist." That is an amazingly large step forward for a nationally recognized Republican politician. Currently we have GOP candidates denying global warming. Wouldn't it be nice to replace them with a version that says "I don't know, ask a scientist?"

Indeed, even those that accept global warming, it would be even better to say "I don't know, ask a scientist." Because the very next thing that should happen is we ask a scientist and then the scientist is the one that gets up and explains the way things are. I'd love to get the public in the habit of the process:

Step 1: I have a question.
Step 2: I admit, I don't know the answer.
Step 3: I'll ask an expert.

Perhaps then, when Jenny McCarthy got on TV and said vaccines cause autism, the country would be like:

Step 1: Do they?
Step 2: I dunno
Step 3: Jenny McCarthy is no expert, I'll ask one.
 
2012-11-19 02:53:31 PM  

lennavan: Tigger: What I've taken away from this is neither Rubio nor Lennavan are educated enough to hold office.

I'd be one of those guys who admits he doesn't know. Like when a vote came up about stimulating the economy or regulating the banks and whatnot, I'd be like "Got me, I'm not an economist. Let's call some and ask." But you're right, that would be truly outrageous, we don't need leaders like that.


Well, economics is hardly settled science. The geological age of the Earth, however, is. It's quite settled. We're really quite done deciding it. It's a known fact. It's not up for debate. It's a knowable known thing. It's not a question for theologians. It's not a question scientists are asking, it's a fact scientists know. You can ask a scientist: how old is the Earth? And he will tell you: "this is the correct answer for how old the Earth is". Because we know the number very well. There's no hemming and hawing. There's no room for interpretation.

I don't think Rubio doesn't know the answer. I know he knows the answer. The reporter wasn't asking him that question because the reporter doesn't know the answer. The reporter knows the answer. Everybody in that exchange knew the answer.

What the reporter was asking was: "Are you, Marco Rubio, now prepared to swear your allegiance publicly to knowable facts that are known, or are you going to continue pandering to that segment of your voting base that rejects knowable known facts in favor of superstitious mumbo jumbo?"

Despite attempting to not answer the question, he answered the question loud and clear. What Rubio actually said was "I'm going to try much harder to make it sound like I won't reject known facts while doing my best to not alienate the loud and angry base of voters that do." It was a simple test, and his failure to pass it is manifest for everybody that's capable of parsing the English language by using a modest application of a thing called "context." Rubio's words don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in a context where the Republican party was just badly beaten in part because they rejected knowable facts in favor of their picture of the universe. The reporter wanted to know if Rubio was going to continue doing that. He told them he was, but he was going to use less absolute language while doing it. This isn't that hard.
 
2012-11-19 02:53:43 PM  

master_dman: I don't get the outrage either.

So your absolutely positive on exactly how old the earth is?

Find me ONE scientist that says with certainty how frickin' old it is?

The only true answer is that we don't really know. We have a pretty good idea.. but thats it.


you just lost my vote.
 
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