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(Talking Points Memo)   Marco Rubio, shining star of The New Improved Modern GOP, thinks the age of the Earth is "one of the great mysteries"   (livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com ) divider line
    More: Sad, Marco Rubio, GOP  
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3999 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Nov 2012 at 2:07 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-19 02:11:00 PM  

SphericalTime: Weaver95: *sigh*

theocrats.

I find myself weirdly affected by the people that don't mind the theocrats as much as the theocrats themselves.


past a certain point, the only thing you can do is limit the damage the GOP theocrats can do, and then ride out the rest of the storm. look - the Republicans got beat down hard this past election. But did they stop and ponder the root causes of their crushing defeat? hells no, they seem to be doubling down on the stupid and using it to rally the troops.

we're not going to convince the True Believers that they're wrong. that's a pointless waste of time. instead, lets focus on making sure the religious nut balls can't do too much damage while working to phase them out of office fast as possible.
 
2012-11-19 02:11:05 PM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Farking geology... how does it work?


I believe the consensus is that it's them evil intellectuals trying to pull a fast one.
 
2012-11-19 02:11:31 PM  

dugitman: A lot of outrage over a politician side-stepping a thinly-veiled theological question. 
 
Lennavan
 
[i107.photobucket.com image 270x203]


The age of the earth isn't a theological question. If you think it is then you are a retard.
 
2012-11-19 02:11:44 PM  
newsbusters.org

Wow, my ignore list isn't that long, but over half the thread is missing now. There must be some Miss Teen South Carolina-style debate here.
 
2012-11-19 02:12:06 PM  
Whether the Earth was created in 7 days, or 7 actual eras, I'm not sure we'll ever be able to answer that. It's one of the great mysteries.

Yeah, I bet he also listens to both kinds of music, country and western.


Weaver95: *sigh*

theocrats.


^
 
2012-11-19 02:13:53 PM  

hutchkc: Eddie Adams from Torrance: Farking geology... how does it work?

I believe the consensus is that it's them evil intellectuals trying to pull a fast really, really slow one.


FTFY
 
2012-11-19 02:13:55 PM  
FWIW I just wrote a blog post eviscerating Rubio.

Man, this kind of stuff pisses me off to no end.

/Yes, I just quoted Lo Pan.
 
2012-11-19 02:15:22 PM  
You know the worst thing about Republicans, the WORST thing about the GOP? Republicans love to not know. Nothing makes a conservative happier than not knowing the answer to your question. 'Hey man, what's the capital of Kenya?' 'Shucks, I don't know that! The only 3 letters i need to know are U..S..and..A, just keeping it real.' Yeah, you're keeping it real, real dumb. Republicans hate knowledge. shiat, if you're afraid a Romney voter will break into your house, and you wanna save your money, you know what you do? You put the money in a book. Cause conservatives don't read. Books are like kryptonite to a member of the GOP. 'Here's a science book.' 'NOOOOOOOOO! NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not a science book!'"
 
2012-11-19 02:15:33 PM  
It was, then we used science to estimate its age with some degree of accuracy.

Besides, if they want to claim the Christian god is a trickster god, well, I know more than a few people that consider that blasphemy.
 
2012-11-19 02:15:51 PM  

lennavan: I'm struggling to see the poutrage here. I can't find a single portion of his statement I disagree with. Indeed, I wish all politicians echoed this exact sentiment.

He's right, he is not the correct person to answer this question, and the journalist should feel bad for asking a politician it.


My 14 year old nephew can answer this question. I expect a politician who sets policy to be able to answer questions on settled science.

/i weep for America because of people like you
 
2012-11-19 02:15:57 PM  

lennavan: Marco Rubio: I'm not a scientist, man. I can tell you what recorded history says, I can tell you what the Bible says, but I think that's a dispute amongst theologians and I think it has nothing to do with the gross domestic product or economic growth of the United States. I think the age of the universe has zero to do with how our economy is going to grow. I'm not a scientist. I don't think I'm qualified to answer a question like that. At the end of the day, I think there are multiple theories out there on how the universe was created and I think this is a country where people should have the opportunity to teach them all. I think parents should be able to teach their kids what their faith says, what science says. Whether the Earth was created in 7 days, or 7 actual eras, I'm not sure we'll ever be able to answer that. It's one of the great mysteries.

I'm struggling to see the poutrage here. I can't find a single portion of his statement I disagree with. Indeed, I wish all politicians echoed this exact sentiment.


No. The right answer is 'about 4 billion years old'.
 
2012-11-19 02:16:09 PM  
If by mystery he means, exact time of the big bang. Sure.
 
2012-11-19 02:16:19 PM  

cman: When can theorize to our hearts content, but we can never be 100% certain.


Sh:t, ask him the same thing about God or even Jesus... "I know, with all my hearts content, I'm 100% certain Jesus is our Lord and Savior".

What his is, is nothing but a pandering twatwaffle. Then again, this isn't news at all.
 
2012-11-19 02:16:49 PM  
There are a lot of perfectly fine ways to answer that question. "WELP DUNNO THEM SCIENTISTS MIGHT BE RIGHT OR THEM CULTISTS MIGHT BE RIGHT PURDY MUCH THE SAME EITHER WAY NOW LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT I WANNA TALK ABOUT" is not one of them.
 
2012-11-19 02:17:14 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: GAT_00: How is it possible to be educated and not know the age of the Earth?

These are the same people who can't understand basic economics and who think that you can tip over an island if too many people are on it.

We have the government we deserve


We'd better hope HI doesn't float away from us someday....
 
2012-11-19 02:17:33 PM  
When you put the same weight of Biblical texts as science there is going to be a problem.
 
2012-11-19 02:18:41 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: Reposted from another thread because it applies here, too...

One thing the Republicans don't seem to grasp:

Even if they nominate "a Hispanic," Mexicans generally HATE Cubans, and vice-versa. And there are lots more Chicanos/Mexicans/Mexican-Americans in the US than Cubans. Rubio might carry Florida, but "the hispanic vote" won't go Republican in any other state.

So, keep talking Rubio. Remind us why we voted for Obama again.


It's sort of like how not all white folks are English. It's like the EU putting up a French candidate (or whatever fake elected position I'm making up right now) and expecting the English to just go along because hey, they're white, too!
 
2012-11-19 02:19:37 PM  

GAT_00: lennavan: But I'm sure you knew.

How is it possible to be educated and not know the age of the Earth?


You redefine what it is to be educated. Duh!
 
2012-11-19 02:20:04 PM  

SphericalTime: He didn't exclude theologians from answering what is a scientific question, and suggested that those answers should be taught. And mind you, he didn't say that he wanted to explain the difference between the word "theory," he said that "people" should be allowed to teach the controversy.


He actually said "parents." I extrapolated to schools. I don't think Rubio actually knows the different usages of the word theory.

SphericalTime: He didn't exclude theologians from answering what is a scientific question


While he did not exclude it, he pretty clearly only deferred to scientists. "I'm not a scientist. I'm not qualified to answer that question." He left room open for the zealots in the country.

When a Republican politician with national recognition gets up and says "on this scientific topic, we should ask scientists" I think that's something we should celebrate, not chastise. This is what happens when we don't listen to scientists:

BARTON: Isn't it obvious that at one time it was a lot warmer in Alaska and on the North Pole? It wasn't a big pipeline that we've created from Texas and shipped it up there and put it under ground so we can now pump it up and ship it back?

CHU: No, there are continental plates that have been drifting around throughout the geological ages.

BARTON: So it just drifted up there.

CHU: Uh.... That's certainly what happened. It's a result of things like that.
 
2012-11-19 02:20:21 PM  

Pincy: The age of the earth isn't a theological question. If you think it is then you are a retard.


No it isn't. But the question was asked to open the theological discussion. If he says "it's 4.5 billion years old" then the next question is something like "So do you reject creationism as the cause of our planet's formation?". If he says it's 6000 years old then he is labeled a retard who is going to force new earth education into public schools.
 
/apatheist
// it's a stupid question to ask politicians if you expect a straight answer
 
2012-11-19 02:21:25 PM  
This is outrageous behavior toward Marco Rubio! His father did not flee Cuba in a paper bag, singlehandedly defeat the Luftwaffen , and then paddle the bag to America with nothing more than his hands for paddles, his cock for a rudder, and a map of Florida just so his son could be treated this way.
 
2012-11-19 02:21:31 PM  
Ask Chris Christie what he thinks about this.

1) He'll probably give you an honest answer.
2) He won't be able to run in 2016. See #1.
 
2012-11-19 02:21:45 PM  
five billion, 356 million, 348 thousand 159 years, 4 months, and 21 days old.

give or take an hour.
 
2012-11-19 02:21:56 PM  

DamnYankees: I can tell you what recorded history says, I can tell you what the Bible says, but I think that's a dispute amongst theologians

Who gives a flying fark what theologians say about this.


His constituents.

Can you really blame him for dodging the question? There's no margin in giving the correct answer. And there's no margin in blatantly pandering to the idiots that vote for him. He KNOWS the correct answer, but he also knows if he gives it he's f*cked.

This is why you can have a party like the Republican party. It's full of educated people doing their level best to look like reasonable idiots. Sad state of affairs.
 
2012-11-19 02:22:35 PM  

lennavan: How many people in this thread do you think knew how old the Earth is before googling it? I'm thinkin, on the spot, without access to Google, I also would have said "Farked if I know, I'm not the right person to ask." And I'm a scientist.


but that's not the issue. The question is How many people in this thread know that SCIENTISTS know the age of the earth.

He didn't say "I personally don't know what it is but others do".
 
2012-11-19 02:24:41 PM  

EyeballKid: This is outrageous behavior toward Marco Rubio! His father did not flee Cuba in a paper bag, singlehandedly defeat the Luftwaffen , and then paddle the bag to America with nothing more than his hands for paddles, his cock for a rudder, and a map of Florida just so his son could be treated this way.


Dutch rudder?
 
2012-11-19 02:24:58 PM  

dugitman: Pincy: The age of the earth isn't a theological question. If you think it is then you are a retard.

No it isn't. But the question was asked to open the theological discussion. If he says "it's 4.5 billion years old" then the next question is something like "So do you reject creationism as the cause of our planet's formation?". If he says it's 6000 years old then he is labeled a retard who is going to force new earth education into public schools.
 
/apatheist
// it's a stupid question to ask politicians if you expect a straight answer


Isn't any question a stupid question to ask a politician if you expect a straight answer :-)

But seriously, people have a right to know if a politician doesn't accept scientific fact.
 
2012-11-19 02:25:00 PM  
The Repubs have a tenuous grasp on reality, me thinks.
 
2012-11-19 02:25:55 PM  

gingerjet: lennavan: I'm struggling to see the poutrage here. I can't find a single portion of his statement I disagree with. Indeed, I wish all politicians echoed this exact sentiment.

He's right, he is not the correct person to answer this question, and the journalist should feel bad for asking a politician it.

My 14 year old nephew can answer this question. I expect a politician who sets policy to be able to answer questions on settled science.

/i weep for America because of people like you


I expect a politician who sets policy who when presented with a question or a problem, will inform himself from the experts and then make a decision. Whether he recalled that fact from 8th grade, or got it from the Stanford Science Professor who serves as his advisor is mostly irrelevant - except to say I'd trust the professor slightly more than my recollection of 8th grade.

That you would attack someone for suggesting we ask an expert makes me weep for the country.
 
2012-11-19 02:26:44 PM  

Tigger: lennavan: Hoban Washburne: If he said "From what I remember, scientists agree it's about 4 billion years old," people wouldn't be giving him a hard time.

But he said "I'm not a scientist... I'm not qualified to answer that question" and that's truly poutrageous?

Hoban Washburne: You're right. I'd be off by about 13.5 percent of the ESTIMATED age of the earth. Any guess as to how far off his "maybe 7 days" statement is? I'm no mathematician, but I can tell you it's a farkload.

He never said the earth was 7 days old. Here's what happened, you read Rubio, you saw the Fark headline, and immediately assumed the headline was not misleading and he was just gonna derp. Turned out he didn't. This may shock you - Fark headlines are not always truthful. So that led you to completely misread what Rubio was saying.

He never said the earth was 7 days old.

No he dodged the question because he doesn't want to offend a metric shiatton of pig ignorant farkwits that he may need support from in future.

In short he's a pandering asshole.

Or he's just so dumb he shouldn't ever run for office.


The correct answer is B)

/always has been, and always will be one
 
2012-11-19 02:26:44 PM  

Cuthbert Allgood: The Repubs have a tenuous grasp on reality, me thinks.


you should hear Limbaugh today. one of his talking points is that 'libruls' were afraid of the GOP convention. which is flat out delusional.
 
2012-11-19 02:27:08 PM  

Corvus: lennavan: How many people in this thread do you think knew how old the Earth is before googling it? I'm thinkin, on the spot, without access to Google, I also would have said "Farked if I know, I'm not the right person to ask." And I'm a scientist.

but that's not the issue. The question is How many people in this thread know that SCIENTISTS know the age of the earth.


Marco Rubio also knows scientists know that answer. He said so, twice.

Relax, trust me, we will have ample opportunity to hate on the GOP. We'll have ample opportunity to hate on Rubio too.
 
2012-11-19 02:27:51 PM  
This is simply the new strategy for the GOP. They've realized their nutty assed beliefs scare the crap out of the common man, so they're going back to the old "Don't tell people what you actually believe" strategy.

You're going to hear a lot of "I dunno! People should look into that!" answers from these clowns over the coming months.
 
2012-11-19 02:28:12 PM  

lennavan: I'm okay with him just asking a scientist to show up to the meeting so they can ask the scientist.


He didn't just defer to a scientist, he also deferred to theologians. Why would Rubio defer a science question to a theologian?
 
2012-11-19 02:28:19 PM  

coeyagi: Ask Chris Christie what he thinks about this.

1) He'll probably give you an honest answer.
2) He won't be able to run in 2016. See #1.


He'd actually be much more likely to tell you to STFU and GTFO. Which is still better than calling it a mystery or quoting the Bible.

Say what you will about his politics, I'm no fan myself, but that guy's personality is perfect for Jersey.
 
2012-11-19 02:28:42 PM  

Rent Party: This is simply the new strategy for the GOP. They've realized their nutty assed beliefs scare the crap out of the common man, so they're going back to the old "Don't tell people what you actually believe" strategy.

You're going to hear a lot of "I dunno! People should look into that!" answers from these clowns over the coming months.


can the GOP stuff that genie back in the bottle tho? i'm not convinced it'll play out well.
 
2012-11-19 02:29:15 PM  

lennavan: gilgigamesh: But sadly, this country is scientifically remedial. Short bus.

Agreed.

gilgigamesh: So we need leaders who acknowledge reality and encourage people to embrace modern educational standards; if necessary, the will to drag this nation kicking and screaming into the 21st (or even the 18th) century.

I'm thinkin a leader who tells us to put our trust in the scientists is the person you are looking for. You wanna know how old the earth is? Ask a scientist, not a politician.


He didn't defer to the scientists, though. He cited several religious ideas, and said that he matter is "still debated among theologists" and that the answer is "one of the great mysteries". Deferring to the scientists would be "Current scientific theory suggests the age of the earth at about 4.5 billion years; I would ask a scientist if you want more details." Instead, he threw out a nonsense, muddy-waters answer with direct citations of religion and absolutely no sense of deference.
 
2012-11-19 02:29:37 PM  

Rent Party: You're going to hear a lot of "I dunno! People should look into that!" answers from these clowns over the coming months.


Let me tell you, if the GOP starts saying "I don't know" that is a huge step forward. If next the GOP says "I don't know, let's ask some experts" well holy fark, that GOP will be absolutely unrecognizable.

I love that you mock it though. Presumably you prefer the one that says shiat like "you can't get pregnant from rape" and "global warming doesn't exist."
 
2012-11-19 02:30:23 PM  

Rent Party: GAT_00: lennavan: But I'm sure you knew.

How is it possible to be educated and not know the age of the Earth?

You redefine what it is to be educated. Duh!


That's lennavan's entire argument more or less. To be uneducated and to openly proclaim it is suddenly educated.
 
2012-11-19 02:30:31 PM  

IronTom: I can agree with that. Those scientists that say that they know the age of the universe, or less so, the age of the Earth, or how many planets or stars there are are overly presumptuous.

Although, we can have a decent guess about the Earth, you would think. Not like the mystery if life and all that.


Microwaves are not witching boxes powered by the devil's lies. If the hot pocket gets hot, the universe is ~13.7 billion years old. If you fundementally lack the capacity to appreciate this, you carry the legacy of why slavery was invented.
 
2012-11-19 02:31:19 PM  

Weaver95: Rent Party: This is simply the new strategy for the GOP. They've realized their nutty assed beliefs scare the crap out of the common man, so they're going back to the old "Don't tell people what you actually believe" strategy.

You're going to hear a lot of "I dunno! People should look into that!" answers from these clowns over the coming months.

can the GOP stuff that genie back in the bottle tho? i'm not convinced it'll play out well.


With the American electorate? We are a nation that is happy to believe we have always been at war with Eastasia. Two years from now, the GOP will deny that there was ever a genie to begin with, and people will believe it.
 
2012-11-19 02:31:42 PM  

give me doughnuts: Rufio?

[i249.photobucket.com image 432x265]


Ralphio?

media.avclub.com
 
2012-11-19 02:31:44 PM  
I can tell you what recorded history says, I can tell you what the Bible says, but I think that's a dispute amongst theologians and I think it has nothing to do with the gross domestic product or economic growth of the United States. I think the age of the universe has zero to do with how our economy is going to grow.

So many things wrong with this statement, it's hard to know where to start. First, studying the age of the cosmos (as is done in NASA, and various laboratories across the world) contributes massively to our gross domestic product, and is the core of an innovative economy. Second, learn to understand there is a difference between the age of the universe, and the age of the Earth. These are very different questions. Third, why are you concerned about what a theologian says about the age of anything? They have nothing but recopied transcripts of passed-down oral stories, conversations and musings between the most fanatical members of genocidal desert tribes, translated through multiple languages and a dozen centuries.

I wouldn't trust those documents to tell me color of shiat, let alone the age of a planetary body.
 
2012-11-19 02:31:52 PM  
You guys know that Lennavan is (more likely than not) one of Skullkrusher's alts, right?
 
2012-11-19 02:32:16 PM  

SoupJohnB: Tigger: lennavan: Hoban Washburne: If he said "From what I remember, scientists agree it's about 4 billion years old," people wouldn't be giving him a hard time.

But he said "I'm not a scientist... I'm not qualified to answer that question" and that's truly poutrageous?

Hoban Washburne: You're right. I'd be off by about 13.5 percent of the ESTIMATED age of the earth. Any guess as to how far off his "maybe 7 days" statement is? I'm no mathematician, but I can tell you it's a farkload.

He never said the earth was 7 days old. Here's what happened, you read Rubio, you saw the Fark headline, and immediately assumed the headline was not misleading and he was just gonna derp. Turned out he didn't. This may shock you - Fark headlines are not always truthful. So that led you to completely misread what Rubio was saying.

He never said the earth was 7 days old.

No he dodged the question because he doesn't want to offend a metric shiatton of pig ignorant farkwits that he may need support from in future.

In short he's a pandering asshole.

Or he's just so dumb he shouldn't ever run for office.

The correct answer is B)

/always has been, and always will be one


Or rather, A). He was a pandering a-hole in the Florida Legislature

/sources say...
 
2012-11-19 02:32:18 PM  

lennavan: Marco Rubio also knows scientists know that answer. He said so, twice.


He absolutely did not. He said scientists have a theory on that and that "[a]t the end of the day, I think there are multiple theories out there on how the universe was created and I think this is a country where people should have the opportunity to teach them all."
 
2012-11-19 02:32:56 PM  

lennavan: Corvus: lennavan: How many people in this thread do you think knew how old the Earth is before googling it? I'm thinkin, on the spot, without access to Google, I also would have said "Farked if I know, I'm not the right person to ask." And I'm a scientist.

but that's not the issue. The question is How many people in this thread know that SCIENTISTS know the age of the earth.

Marco Rubio also knows scientists know that answer. He said so, twice.

Relax, trust me, we will have ample opportunity to hate on the GOP. We'll have ample opportunity to hate on Rubio too.


Bullshiat he said scientist had one of "many theories". He said no one knows for sure and implied that people who think the earth is 4000 years old are just as valid as real scientists.
 
2012-11-19 02:33:03 PM  

qorkfiend: Deferring to the scientists would be "Current scientific theory suggests the age of the earth at about 4.5 billion years; I would ask a scientist if you want more details."


How would you defer to scientists if you did not remember the 4.5 billion number? Would it be something like "I'm not a scientist, man?"

qorkfiend: He cited several religious ideas, and said that he matter is "still debated among theologists"


The religious ideas are indeed still debated amongst theologians. If you re-read his statement, you will realize that is what he is referring to as debated:

I can tell you what the Bible says, but I think that's a dispute amongst theologians

The things said in the bible are disputed amongst theologians. This is a statement I am sure you absolutely agree with. Yet you attack Rubio for saying it? Craziness I tell you.

qorkfiend: absolutely no sense of deference.


"I'm not a scientist, man... I'm not a scientist. I don't think I'm qualified to answer a question like that."

Nope, no sense of deference at all.
 
2012-11-19 02:33:41 PM  

lennavan: Rent Party: You're going to hear a lot of "I dunno! People should look into that!" answers from these clowns over the coming months.

Let me tell you, if the GOP starts saying "I don't know" that is a huge step forward. If next the GOP says "I don't know, let's ask some experts" well holy fark, that GOP will be absolutely unrecognizable.

I love that you mock it though. Presumably you prefer the one that says shiat like "you can't get pregnant from rape" and "global warming doesn't exist."


I do prefer it. You seem to think these guys are suddenly claiming ignorance because they, you know, *actually don't know.* They are not deferring the answer out of enlightenment, they are deferring the answer because they know that if the told you what they really thought, you would run screaming from the room.

This isn't progress, it's regression. They are now actively hiding their true mind from you. I'd much rather have them tell me what they really think, so I can vote accordingly.
 
2012-11-19 02:33:54 PM  

joshiz: lennavan: He's right, he is not the correct person to answer this question, and the journalist should feel bad for asking a politician it.

Wrong...it speaks to someone's belief in science which to me is very important. It is a very valid question.

The age of the Earth is not a great mystery with competing theories. The earth is 4.5 billion years old. This is a fact.



Pfffft! When I was in school they used to say that the Earth was 4.5 Billion years old and that was in the 90s! You mean to tell me that the Earth is still the same damn age that it was 20+ years ago??

/I GOTCHA Science, you biatch!
 
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