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(Christian Science Monitor)   As the violence in their country escalates, ordinary Israelis ponder the question famously posed by Leo Tolstoy: "War. What is it good for?"   (csmonitor.com) divider line 215
    More: Interesting, Israelis, Iron Dome, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, ground attacks, Ashdod, violence  
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2714 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Nov 2012 at 10:51 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-19 09:53:04 AM
FTFA: "If you ask me, I think we have to destroy Gaza. I think they are animals, not people," he says, pulling at his new wedding ring as he stood outside the damaged apartment yesterday. "It's the right thing to do."

It's OK, folks. He's just citing the Talmud and what's taught regarding ALL non-Jews. But, it's forbidden for you to know that.
 
2012-11-19 10:10:26 AM
Good god y'all.
 
2012-11-19 10:21:56 AM
"If you ask me, I think we have to destroy Gaza. I think they are animals, not people,"

That sounds strangely familiar
 
2012-11-19 10:26:39 AM
Social engineering at its very finest.
 
2012-11-19 10:52:50 AM
It IS a great tool for ethnic cleansing.
 
2012-11-19 10:54:08 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: "If you ask me, I think we have to destroy Gaza. I think they are animals, not people,"

That sounds strangely familiar


Israel should change it's name to "Irony".
 
2012-11-19 10:54:27 AM
In Gaza, I think they're favorite James Brown song is "The Big Payback".
 
2012-11-19 10:54:46 AM
Absolutely Nothing, say it again!
 
2012-11-19 10:56:06 AM

DROxINxTHExWIND: In Gaza, I think they're favorite James Brown song is "The Big Payback".


That or "Its a Man's World".

/Ok, I'm done now.
 
2012-11-19 10:56:50 AM
Took notes, did ya?
 
2012-11-19 10:57:13 AM
Rush Hour hits Israel.
 
2012-11-19 10:57:22 AM

Cewley: Good god y'all.


It's Israel, you have to say "Good G-d, y'all"
 
2012-11-19 10:59:28 AM
How about self defense? Random rocket attacks on your civilian populace tends to produce war.
 
2012-11-19 10:59:37 AM

acanuck: FTFA: "If you ask me, I think we have to destroy Gaza. I think they are animals, not people," he says, pulling at his new wedding ring as he stood outside the damaged apartment yesterday. "It's the right thing to do."

It's OK, folks. He's just citing the Talmud and what's taught regarding ALL non-Jews. But, it's forbidden for you to know that.



He might just be quoting the, "YOU FIRED ON ME?  Fark you and all y'all" instead of something religious.
 
2012-11-19 11:00:34 AM

acanuck: FTFA: "If you ask me, I think we have to destroy Gaza. I think they are animals, not people," he says, pulling at his new wedding ring as he stood outside the damaged apartment yesterday. "It's the right thing to do."

It's OK, folks. He's just citing the Talmud and what's taught regarding ALL non-Jews. But, it's forbidden for you to know that.


Tribes acting tribal is not exactly news.

Contemplating further Lebensraum and "final solutions"? Comedy gold.
 
2012-11-19 11:00:44 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: "If you ask me, I think we have to destroy Gaza. I think they are animals, not people,"

That sounds strangely familiar


cant someone think of a solution to this never ending problem which would settle this question once and for all? some sort of "never again come up again" kind of solution, like, yknow, a last solution? that doesnt sound catchy tho. anyone help me out here?
 
2012-11-19 11:00:47 AM
"If you ask me, I think we have to destroy Gaza. I think they are animals, not people"

And that, in a nutshell, is why this issue is at best evil farks shooting at other marginally different evil farks. And the real problem is that plenty of innocents on either side are the ones doing the dying.
 
2012-11-19 11:01:06 AM
If i lived in Israel, my question would more be along the lines of "why has this dumb shiat been going on so long, and why don't we either just roll over Hamas, or make a equitable peace plan where both sides are happy? Either way, this dumb shiat has gone on long enough.
 
2012-11-19 11:01:39 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: "If you ask me, I think we have to destroy Gaza. I think they are animals, not people,"

That sounds strangely familiar


Yet what exactly have the Palestinians done to make him think anything else?

Sure, there are a lot of people in the Gaza region trying to get along with daily life, make homes, raise children, and would rather that people simply stop shooting at each other. But those people are never seen on TV unless one of them happens to live next to a Hamas target and took a chunk of flying concrete and now lays dying on the ground.

It's easy to blame the Israelis because they are supposed to be "better" than the militants and not resort to violence, but what does that say about the militants and those that support them? What about the majority of the population that elected the militants to speak for them? Are they lesser people? Barbarians?

If so, does it mean that like it or not, he's right?

I'll say it again: Gaza was better off under Israeli control.
 
2012-11-19 11:01:54 AM
I heard he wanted to name his book that but his mistress didn't like it and insisted he change it to the title we know today.
 
2012-11-19 11:02:45 AM

Joe Blowme: How about self defense? Random rocket attacks on your civilian populace tends to produce war.


You send my civilians to the hospital, I send your civilians to the morgue. That's the Israel way.
 
2012-11-19 11:02:55 AM

acanuck: FTFA: "If you ask me, I think we have to destroy Gaza. I think they are animals, not people," he says, pulling at his new wedding ring as he stood outside the damaged apartment yesterday. "It's the right thing to do.".


Israel: Jewish Problems - German Solutions
 
2012-11-19 11:02:56 AM
It's almost as if Gaza is a camp where they concentrated all the sub-humans.
 
2012-11-19 11:03:07 AM
I'd like to paraphrase another song:

"there ain't no good guys."
 
2012-11-19 11:03:42 AM

Joe Blowme: How about self defense? Random rocket attacks on your civilian populace tends to produce war.


Responding with random rocket attacks on THEIR civilian populace means you don't actually have an issue with their method, and have no claim whatsoever to any moral superiority.

It's the equivalent to seeing a guy punch your wheelchair-bound girlfriend in the face, so you punch HIS wheelchair-bound girlfriend in the face. Congrats, you're both beating on crippled women. That totally solves the problem.
 
2012-11-19 11:03:59 AM

TheOther: Israel: Jewish Problems - German Solutions


I am going to steal that. I'll try to give you credit, TheOther.
 
2012-11-19 11:04:04 AM

Arkanaut: Joe Blowme: How about self defense? Random rocket attacks on your civilian populace tends to produce war.

You send my civilians to the hospital, I send your civilians to the morgue. That's the Israel way.


Problem is only one side is targeting civilians.... but by alll means dont let that get in the way of your derp
 
2012-11-19 11:04:53 AM
Friend only to the undertaker.

I didn't know Leo Tolstoy was Edwin Starr's pen name.
 
2012-11-19 11:05:10 AM

Thorak: Joe Blowme: How about self defense? Random rocket attacks on your civilian populace tends to produce war.

Responding with random rocket attacks on THEIR civilian populace means you don't actually have an issue with their method, and have no claim whatsoever to any moral superiority.

It's the equivalent to seeing a guy punch your wheelchair-bound girlfriend in the face, so you punch HIS wheelchair-bound girlfriend in the face. Congrats, you're both beating on crippled women. That totally solves the problem.


Problem is only one side is targeting civilians.... but by alll means dont let that get in the way of your derp
 
2012-11-19 11:05:47 AM
We gotta get outta this place
If its the last thing we ever do
We gotta get outta this place
Girl, there's a better life for me and you...
 
2012-11-19 11:05:50 AM
what is it good for? For Israelis...


Keeps most exploding rockets out of your living room, with new surround sound.

And keeps suicide bombers at bay. Less exploding grocery stores.

And when you leave on vacation, you don't have too worry very much about a Milan or Kornet anti tank missile slamming into your car.
 
2012-11-19 11:06:15 AM
Didn't this bullshiat start when Israel assassinated a Hamas leader? Did that work out? Did Hamas give up? Because that would totally make everything worth it.
 
2012-11-19 11:06:15 AM

Father_Jack: MaudlinMutantMollusk: "If you ask me, I think we have to destroy Gaza. I think they are animals, not people,"

That sounds strangely familiar

cant someone think of a solution to this never ending problem which would settle this question once and for all? some sort of "never again come up again" kind of solution, like, yknow, a last solution? that doesnt sound catchy tho. anyone help me out here?


Make petrol obsolete.

Ok it won't stop the problem but there will a lot less reasons for anyone in the world to funnel in money and weapons to the middle east.
 
2012-11-19 11:06:31 AM

Father_Jack: cant someone think of a solution to this never ending problem which would settle this question once and for all? some sort of "never again come up again" kind of solution, like, yknow, a last solution? that doesnt sound catchy tho. anyone help me out here?


Here's my "final solution:"

1: The palestinians accept that the two-state solution is dead. There is not going to be a Palestine. IOW; they are de facto israelis.
2: The israelis give the palestinians full rights as israeli citizens, including the right to vote and run for office.

Yes, this means giving up the "jewish state." Yes, the terrorism will continue.

/yes, i know i've posted this a few times already
 
2012-11-19 11:07:08 AM

Cewley: Good god y'all.


Woah-oh-oh -oh -oh oh oh .
 
2012-11-19 11:07:10 AM

PandaPorn: Didn't this bullshiat start when Israel assassinated a Hamas leader? Did that work out? Did Hamas give up? Because that would totally make everything worth it.


No, the 130+ rockets shot at civilians started it... this time.
 
2012-11-19 11:09:00 AM

Thorak: Joe Blowme: How about self defense? Random rocket attacks on your civilian populace tends to produce war.

Responding with random rocket attacks on THEIR civilian populace means you don't actually have an issue with their method, and have no claim whatsoever to any moral superiority.

It's the equivalent to seeing a guy punch your wheelchair-bound girlfriend in the face, so you punch HIS wheelchair-bound girlfriend in the face.

And then raping her for good measure and not even have the courtesy to call a cab....
 
2012-11-19 11:09:05 AM

hdhale: It's easy to blame the Israelis because they are supposed to be "better" than the militants and not resort to violence, but what does that say about the militants and those that support them? What about the majority of the population that elected the militants to speak for them? Are they lesser people? Barbarians?


i560.photobucket.com

/what about the majority of israelis that vote for the likes of netanyahu ...?
 
2012-11-19 11:10:02 AM

Uncle Tractor: Father_Jack: cant someone think of a solution to this never ending problem which would settle this question once and for all? some sort of "never again come up again" kind of solution, like, yknow, a last solution? that doesnt sound catchy tho. anyone help me out here?

Here's my "final solution:"

1: The palestinians accept that the two-state solution is dead. There is not going to be a Palestine. IOW; they are de facto israelis.
2: The israelis give the palestinians full rights as israeli citizens, including the right to vote and run for office.

Yes, this means giving up the "jewish state." Yes, the terrorism will continue.

/yes, i know i've posted this a few times already


/yes, because if anything, Islamic fundies are known for their reason and capability to accept change and are totally open to the "give and take" style of agreements.
 
2012-11-19 11:10:09 AM

Thorak: Joe Blowme: How about self defense? Random rocket attacks on your civilian populace tends to produce war.

Responding with random rocket attacks on THEIR civilian populace means you don't actually have an issue with their method, and have no claim whatsoever to any moral superiority.

It's the equivalent to seeing a guy punch your wheelchair-bound girlfriend in the face, so you punch HIS wheelchair-bound girlfriend in the face. Congrats, you're both beating on crippled women. That totally solves the problem.


Except that it's more like the guy is hiding behind his wheelchair bound girlfriend taking pokes at your wheelchair bound girlfriend hoping you'll try to punch back, so he can point a finger and claim you are no better than he is, when clearly he isn't.

Worse, your wheelchair bound girlfriend looks at you and pleads for you to stop him and no one in the crowd watching offers to help.

Fark, the crowd is convinced you are no better than the other guy looks at you with a disapproving eye every time you try to punch him. Occasionally, one them makes noises like they are going to punch you.
 
2012-11-19 11:10:13 AM

PandaPorn: Didn't this bullshiat start when Israel assassinated a Hamas leader? Did that work out? Did Hamas give up? Because that would totally make everything worth it.



Um.  No.  8000 rockets fired into Isarael in 4 years.  One particularly bad hit last week killed 3 Israelies.  Israel got pissed.  Targeted HAMAS leadership.  And is not targeting HAMAS leadership's contacts and safe houses and rocket deployment stations (you know the ones in the playgrounds).
 
2012-11-19 11:13:35 AM

Joe Blowme: PandaPorn: Didn't this bullshiat start when Israel assassinated a Hamas leader? Did that work out? Did Hamas give up? Because that would totally make everything worth it.

No, the 130+ rockets shot at civilians started it... this time.


Which was a reaction to the assassination no doubt...
 
2012-11-19 11:14:32 AM

Uncle Tractor: hdhale: It's easy to blame the Israelis because they are supposed to be "better" than the militants and not resort to violence, but what does that say about the militants and those that support them? What about the majority of the population that elected the militants to speak for them? Are they lesser people? Barbarians?

[i560.photobucket.com image 360x480]

/what about the majority of israelis that vote for the likes of netanyahu ...?


Take care around this Farker. Mad Cow disease has taken hold.
 
2012-11-19 11:15:50 AM

DrBear: Friend only to the undertaker.

I didn't know Leo Tolstoy was Edwin Starr's pen name.


Don't feel bad, she didn't either:
bookriot.com
 
2012-11-19 11:16:57 AM

I_C_Weener: Um.  No.  8000 rockets fired into Isarael in 4 years.  One particularly bad hit last week killed 3 Israelies.  Israel got pissed.  Targeted HAMAS leadership.  And is not targeting HAMAS leadership's contacts and safe houses and rocket deployment stations (you know the ones in the playgrounds).


Yet still cause 50+ civiliatn casualties and 100+ wounded. So let me ask again: How is the violence working out? Have they stopped lobbing rockets? Did it stop them from being militant and aggressive? Maybe if you bombed them a little more.

And isn't Israel almost impervious to rockets, with their Irondome systems? That apparently is the story I'm reading.
 
2012-11-19 11:18:50 AM
There are wars where one feels no compassion for the other side.

And there are wars where the compassion for the ordinary people of boths side is so overwhelming. And you get to blame democracy because that's about all you can manage to blame.
 
2012-11-19 11:20:19 AM
The facts are.

1. Hamas fires unguided rockets at Israel, not really caring if they blow up innocent civilians.
2. Israel uses high tech guided munitions to try to stop the rocket attacks, but due to civilian proximity, sadly there are civilian deaths.
3. Hamas parades around with killed children saying "LOOK what the Zionists did!!" while they wail and gnash their teeth, even though they invited the strikes due to fighting from civilian areas.
4. Hamas fights from civilian buildings, inviting fire that could injure or kill non combatants.
5. Hamas gets more rockets from Iran, and has a early fourth of july, screaming "god is great" while praying that the rockets land on some person's house, killing their family.
6. Israel does more guided strikes,
7. Ad nauseum.
It's never going to stop. Hamas and the Palestinians want Jerusalem, and the Israelis wont give it up. So they are going to continue to snipe at one another until Israel gets pissed off enough to roll in the tanks and start chumming up houses until gaza looks like a smoking crater.
 
2012-11-19 11:20:24 AM

iserlohn: Joe Blowme: PandaPorn: Didn't this bullshiat start when Israel assassinated a Hamas leader? Did that work out? Did Hamas give up? Because that would totally make everything worth it.

No, the 130+ rockets shot at civilians started it... this time.

Which was a reaction to the assassination no doubt...


Well, that seems like a really reasonable response, doesn't it?
 
2012-11-19 11:21:01 AM
War.

War never changes.
 
2012-11-19 11:21:51 AM

iserlohn: Joe Blowme: PandaPorn: Didn't this bullshiat start when Israel assassinated a Hamas leader? Did that work out? Did Hamas give up? Because that would totally make everything worth it.

No, the 130+ rockets shot at civilians started it... this time.

Which was a reaction to the assassination no doubt...


do they have unicorns in your imaginary world too?
 
2012-11-19 11:21:56 AM

hdhale: Thorak: Joe Blowme: How about self defense? Random rocket attacks on your civilian populace tends to produce war.

Responding with random rocket attacks on THEIR civilian populace means you don't actually have an issue with their method, and have no claim whatsoever to any moral superiority.

It's the equivalent to seeing a guy punch your wheelchair-bound girlfriend in the face, so you punch HIS wheelchair-bound girlfriend in the face. Congrats, you're both beating on crippled women. That totally
solves the problem.

Except that it's more like the guy is hiding behind his wheelchair bound girlfriend taking pokes at your wheelchair bound girlfriend hoping you'll try to punch back, so he can point a finger and claim you are no better than he is, when clearly he isn't.

Worse, your wheelchair bound girlfriend looks at you and pleads for you to stop him and no one in the crowd watching offers to help.

Fark, the crowd is convinced you are no better than the other guy looks at you with a disapproving eye every time you try to punch him. Occasionally, one them makes noises like they are going to punch you.



I blame Britain and the UN for giving them girlfriends in the first place. Neither of those assholes could get a date on their own.

/Isreal is not in the right
//but they are not in the wrong, either
///but they are certainly doing everything they can to perpetuate the problem
 
2012-11-19 11:22:11 AM

hdhale: Except that it's more like the guy is hiding behind his wheelchair bound girlfriend taking pokes at your wheelchair bound girlfriend hoping you'll try to punch back, so he can point a finger and claim you are no better than he is, when clearly he isn't.

Worse, your wheelchair bound girlfriend looks at you and pleads for you to stop him and no one in the crowd watching offers to help.

Fark, the crowd is convinced you are no better than the other guy looks at you with a disapproving eye every time you try to punch him. Occasionally, one them makes noises like they are going to punch you.


The reason the crowd is convinced you're no better is because you ARE punching his wheelchair-bound girlfriend in the face over and over. You're trying to hit him, but you keep missing. But you keep farking swinging anyway.

As opposed to walking the fark away, or stepping around the wheelchair, or any of a host of other options. The facts are, as this article cited, many Israelis don't actually think of Palestinians as "people like us", so they're perfectly okay with "animals" getting killed.

In short; they're evil racist farks. Hamas are also evil racist farks. So in a fight between evil racist farks where it matters not one whit to me or my life which one wins, I have no reason whatsoever to support one or the other. I will simply condemn them both.

Israel is not some innocent bystander, in all this. They could have chosen to rise above the ancient racial hatreds in the region, but instead, they decided to push back with their own hatred.
 
2012-11-19 11:22:30 AM

I_C_Weener: PandaPorn: Didn't this bullshiat start when Israel assassinated a Hamas leader? Did that work out? Did Hamas give up? Because that would totally make everything worth it.


Um.  No.  8000 rockets fired into Isarael in 4 years.  One particularly bad hit last week killed 3 Israelies.  Israel got pissed.  Targeted HAMAS leadership.  And is not targeting HAMAS leadership's contacts and safe houses and rocket deployment stations (you know the ones in the playgrounds).


Says the guy sitting on his ass in America somewhere. You know, I'm willing to give people the benefit of doubt on here when they give unsupported information but I hate the sensational bullshiat.

http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/photo-hamas-missile-launch-pad-near-mosque - playground

I think what you meant to say is that Hamas set up launch pads "NEAR" playgrounds, as in a block away. Your attempt to justify the Israeli slaughter of children by claiming that its all good because the bad guys were hiding behind kids is disingenuous, at best. The Gaza strip isn't the size of Texas, so it seems to me that there will ALWAYS be civilians in close proximity to military personnel. This is in NO WAY an approval of the Palestinians tactic to fire rockets into civilian territories in Israel. But, lets keep it real.
 
2012-11-19 11:22:43 AM

Bit'O'Gristle: The facts are.

1. Hamas fires unguided rockets at Israel, not really caring if they blow up innocent civilians.
2. Israel uses high tech guided munitions to try to stop the rocket attacks, but due to civilian proximity, sadly there are civilian deaths.
3. Hamas parades around with killed children saying "LOOK what the Zionists did!!" while they wail and gnash their teeth, even though they invited the strikes due to fighting from civilian areas.
4. Hamas fights from civilian buildings, inviting fire that could injure or kill non combatants.
5. Hamas gets more rockets from Iran, and has a early fourth of july, screaming "god is great" while praying that the rockets land on some person's house, killing their family.
6. Israel does more guided strikes,
7. Ad nauseum.
It's never going to stop. Hamas and the Palestinians want Jerusalem, and the Israelis wont give it up. So they are going to continue to snipe at one another until Israel gets pissed off enough to roll in the tanks and start chumming up houses until gaza looks like a smoking crater.


I can't find any way to argue with this: This is going to stop until one side or the other is dead.

My money is on the Israelis coming out on top.

It's hard to have sympathy with people who deliberately do their best to cause civilian deaths on both sides of the border.
 
2012-11-19 11:23:46 AM

Infernalist: Bit'O'Gristle: The facts are.

1. Hamas fires unguided rockets at Israel, not really caring if they blow up innocent civilians.
2. Israel uses high tech guided munitions to try to stop the rocket attacks, but due to civilian proximity, sadly there are civilian deaths.
3. Hamas parades around with killed children saying "LOOK what the Zionists did!!" while they wail and gnash their teeth, even though they invited the strikes due to fighting from civilian areas.
4. Hamas fights from civilian buildings, inviting fire that could injure or kill non combatants.
5. Hamas gets more rockets from Iran, and has a early fourth of july, screaming "god is great" while praying that the rockets land on some person's house, killing their family.
6. Israel does more guided strikes,
7. Ad nauseum.
It's never going to stop. Hamas and the Palestinians want Jerusalem, and the Israelis wont give it up. So they are going to continue to snipe at one another until Israel gets pissed off enough to roll in the tanks and start chumming up houses until gaza looks like a smoking crater.

I can't find any way to argue with this: This is going to stop until one side or the other is dead.

My money is on the Israelis coming out on top.

It's hard to have sympathy with people who deliberately do their best to cause civilian deaths on both sides of the border.


"isn't going to stop" ftfm

pain killers, they're gggrreeeeaaat
 
2012-11-19 11:24:23 AM

Bit'O'Gristle: It's never going to stop. Hamas and the Palestinians want Jerusalem, and the Israelis wont give it up. So they are going to continue to snipe at one another until Israel gets pissed off enough to roll in the tanks and start chumming up houses until gaza looks like a smoking crater.


Nothing sadder then the abject failure of diplomacy (by all people involved) in resolving this conflict.
 
2012-11-19 11:24:25 AM

Uncle Tractor: hdhale: It's easy to blame the Israelis because they are supposed to be "better" than the militants and not resort to violence, but what does that say about the militants and those that support them? What about the majority of the population that elected the militants to speak for them? Are they lesser people? Barbarians?

[i560.photobucket.com image 360x480]

/what about the majority of israelis that vote for the likes of netanyahu ...?


Cute sign...be interesting to find out if anyone actually checked out the guy's story to see if it had any validity.

What's going on right now would be going on whether Netanyahu was in charge or not. Simply put, Hamas is part of the problem, not part of the solution, and their insistence on speaking of Tel Aviv as an "occupied city" should be all you need to hear about their intentions.
 
2012-11-19 11:24:37 AM
And I want to be clear; I'm not saying all Israelis, or all Palestinians, are "evil racist farks". I'm saying those chanting for war on EITHER side are. And their governments.

There's plenty of decent people on either side who are being victimized by these same farks.
 
2012-11-19 11:27:36 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: "If you ask me, I think we have to destroy Gaza. I think they are animals, not people,"

That sounds strangely familiar


Well, I think we all agree that it's the the liberal peacenik's fault that right-wing ultra-nationalists justify genocide this way. You could even say that liberals are the real racists.

Wars have always been fought against enemy tribes. One group of people finds another group of people that doesn't smoke the same kind of cigarettes (or whatever) and then kills them and take what they want from the carnage. You see some guy smoking a Camel unfiltered, you shoot him in the face and take his kids home to be slaves, that kind of thing.

But a few hundred years ago the liberals had to get involved, and decided we're all people of the same human tribe, and shooting people in the face is wrong unless its morally justified by something greater than avarice, and all that multicultural PC crap. Thus, liberal thinking is a big part of the reason for the right wing ultra-nationalist reactionary thinking, which was forced to escalate the justification of war to make it acceptable. Now, about the only way you can have a war is by saying that the enemy isn't even part of the human tribe, so it's OK to kill them. The civilians back home pretend theyve sent soldiers out to butcher animals, not men.

And that liberal thinking about war is why we've gone from historical accounts like The Iliad, where the enemies were still very much noble men of honor and decency but it was OK to kill them because they rode horses, to today when right wing ultra nationalists like the Nazis and the Zionists can only justify the carnage by saying that their enemies are less than dogs.
 
2012-11-19 11:28:21 AM

DROxINxTHExWIND: I_C_Weener: PandaPorn: Didn't this bullshiat start when Israel assassinated a Hamas leader? Did that work out? Did Hamas give up? Because that would totally make everything worth it.


Um.  No.  8000 rockets fired into Isarael in 4 years.  One particularly bad hit last week killed 3 Israelies.  Israel got pissed.  Targeted HAMAS leadership.  And is not targeting HAMAS leadership's contacts and safe houses and rocket deployment stations (you know the ones in the playgrounds).

Says the guy sitting on his ass in America somewhere. You know, I'm willing to give people the benefit of doubt on here when they give unsupported information but I hate the sensational bullshiat.

http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/photo-hamas-missile-launch-pad-near-mosque - playground

I think what you meant to say is that Hamas set up launch pads "NEAR" playgrounds, as in a block away. Your attempt to justify the Israeli slaughter of children by claiming that its all good because the bad guys were hiding behind kids is disingenuous, at best. The Gaza strip isn't the size of Texas, so it seems to me that there will ALWAYS be civilians in close proximity to military personnel. This is in NO WAY an approval of the Palestinians tactic to fire rockets into civilian territories in Israel. But, lets keep it real.


Keepin it realz.... Human shields... how do they work Dro?
 
2012-11-19 11:28:24 AM

DROxINxTHExWIND: I_C_Weener: PandaPorn: Didn't this bullshiat start when Israel assassinated a Hamas leader? Did that work out? Did Hamas give up? Because that would totally make everything worth it.


Um.  No.  8000 rockets fired into Isarael in 4 years.  One particularly bad hit last week killed 3 Israelies.  Israel got pissed.  Targeted HAMAS leadership.  And is not targeting HAMAS leadership's contacts and safe houses and rocket deployment stations (you know the ones in the playgrounds).

Says the guy sitting on his ass in America somewhere. You know, I'm willing to give people the benefit of doubt on here when they give unsupported information but I hate the sensational bullshiat.

http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/photo-hamas-missile-launch-pad-near-mosque - playground

I think what you meant to say is that Hamas set up launch pads "NEAR" playgrounds, as in a block away. Your attempt to justify the Israeli slaughter of children by claiming that its all good because the bad guys were hiding behind kids is disingenuous, at best. The Gaza strip isn't the size of Texas, so it seems to me that there will ALWAYS be civilians in close proximity to military personnel. This is in NO WAY an approval of the Palestinians tactic to fire rockets into civilian territories in Israel. But, lets keep it real.


You seem awfully worked up about this.  How about these people that died from the rockets fired from "near" a playground and mosque?
 
Surely, your righteous indignation extends this far?
 
2012-11-19 11:29:18 AM

acanuck: FTFA: "If you ask me, I think we have to destroy Gaza. I think they are animals, not people," he says, pulling at his new wedding ring as he stood outside the damaged apartment yesterday. "It's the right thing to do."

It's OK, folks. He's just citing the Talmud and what's taught regarding ALL non-Jews. But, it's forbidden for you to know that.


Citation, please.

// unless that was satire, in which case -9.999999e999/10
 
2012-11-19 11:32:27 AM
Many see this is as part of a cycle, but I don't think it'll be like that this time.
History doesn't really repeat itself - or at least, not exactly.
This time things will be different - the cycle will not continue.
 
2012-11-19 11:33:24 AM

Joe Blowme: Thorak: Joe Blowme: How about self defense? Random rocket attacks on your civilian populace tends to produce war.

Responding with random rocket attacks on THEIR civilian populace means you don't actually have an issue with their method, and have no claim whatsoever to any moral superiority.

It's the equivalent to seeing a guy punch your wheelchair-bound girlfriend in the face, so you punch HIS wheelchair-bound girlfriend in the face. Congrats, you're both beating on crippled women. That totally solves the problem.

Problem is only one side is targeting civilians.... but by alll means dont let that get in the way of your derp


Target != kill

One side is targeting them but mostly not killing them (the death toll on the Israeli side this year is in the single digits); the other side isn't targeting civilians but is (likely) killing them a lot more.
 
2012-11-19 11:34:32 AM

Bit'O'Gristle: /yes, because if anything, Islamic fundies are known for their reason and capability to accept change and are totally open to the "give and take" style of agreements.


You think it's only the islamists?
 
2012-11-19 11:34:37 AM

I_C_Weener: DROxINxTHExWIND: I_C_Weener: PandaPorn: Didn't this bullshiat start when Israel assassinated a Hamas leader? Did that work out? Did Hamas give up? Because that would totally make everything worth it.


Um.  No.  8000 rockets fired into Isarael in 4 years.  One particularly bad hit last week killed 3 Israelies.  Israel got pissed.  Targeted HAMAS leadership.  And is not targeting HAMAS leadership's contacts and safe houses and rocket deployment stations (you know the ones in the playgrounds).

Says the guy sitting on his ass in America somewhere. You know, I'm willing to give people the benefit of doubt on here when they give unsupported information but I hate the sensational bullshiat.

http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/photo-hamas-missile-launch-pad-near-mosque - playground

I think what you meant to say is that Hamas set up launch pads "NEAR" playgrounds, as in a block away. Your attempt to justify the Israeli slaughter of children by claiming that its all good because the bad guys were hiding behind kids is disingenuous, at best. The Gaza strip isn't the size of Texas, so it seems to me that there will ALWAYS be civilians in close proximity to military personnel. This is in NO WAY an approval of the Palestinians tactic to fire rockets into civilian territories in Israel. But, lets keep it real.

You seem awfully worked up about this.  How about these people that died from the rockets fired from "near" a playground and mosque?
 
Surely, your righteous indignation extends this far?


The site was farked. I am more than willing to look at any evidence that would make me shut my cake hole. I did try to do a little research before I popped off and I haven't been able to find one instance where so-called human sheilds were used. It doesn't even seem logical because there is NO evidence to suggest that Israel has a problem killing civilians to reach their intended target.
 
2012-11-19 11:34:58 AM

The Larch: Well, I think we all agree that it's the the liberal peacenik's fault that right-wing ultra-nationalists justify genocide this way. You could even say that liberals are the real racists.

Wars have always been fought against enemy tribes. One group of people finds another group of people that doesn't smoke the same kind of cigarettes (or whatever) and then kills them and take what they want from the carnage. You see some guy smoking a Camel unfiltered, you shoot him in the face and take his kids home to be slaves, that kind of thing.

But a few hundred years ago the liberals had to get involved, and decided we're all people of the same human tribe, and shooting people in the face is wrong unless its morally justified by something greater than avarice, and all that multicultural PC crap. Thus, liberal thinking is a big part of the reason for the right wing ultra-nationalist reactionary thinking, which was forced to escalate the justification of war to make it acceptable. Now, about the only way you can have a war is by saying that the enemy isn't even part of the human tribe, so it's OK to kill them. The civilians back home pretend theyve sent soldiers out to butcher animals, not men.

And that liberal thinking about war is why we've gone from historical accounts like The Iliad, where the enemies were still very much noble men of honor and decency but it was OK to kill them because they rode horses, to today when right wing ultra nationalists like the Nazis and the Zionists can only justify the carnage by saying that their enemies are less than dogs.


So your complaint is not that slaughter and slavery is bad, just that it happens under the wrong pretense. Classy.
 
2012-11-19 11:40:05 AM

PandaPorn: Bit'O'Gristle: It's never going to stop. Hamas and the Palestinians want Jerusalem, and the Israelis wont give it up. So they are going to continue to snipe at one another until Israel gets pissed off enough to roll in the tanks and start chumming up houses until gaza looks like a smoking crater.

Nothing sadder then the abject failure of diplomacy (by all people involved) in resolving this conflict.



Maybe the best option would be.  For every rocket fired from Gaza, Israel fires one back.  And unguided Qassam rocket...just like Hamas uses.  Who knows where it will land?  But at least it won't be likely to do any  more damage than Hamas has done, right?
 
Equal and opposite response.  Or if it is a larger size rocket, reply in kind. 
 
Eventually, I imagine Gaza would get tired of random rockets being tossed their way.
 
2012-11-19 11:40:19 AM

hdhale: Cute sign...be interesting to find out if anyone actually checked out the guy's story to see if it had any validity.


I don't care about that guy. The point is that those rockets aren't the beginning of the problem. The rockets are just a symptom.
 
2012-11-19 11:41:26 AM
 
2012-11-19 11:42:12 AM

acanuck: It's OK, folks. He's just citing the Talmud and what's taught regarding ALL non-Jews. But, it's forbidden for you to know that.


Oh f you, he's just one douche bag. As you can see from the article, not everyone thinks that way although it's troubling that some in the Israeli government do. But you're just as bad because you lump all Jews together.
 
2012-11-19 11:43:02 AM
I find it surprising to see that so many people would be totally cool with someone coming into their home with a 2,000+ year old title deed issued by an unseen person in the sky and tossing them out.
 
2012-11-19 11:43:08 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: "If you ask me, I think we have to destroy Gaza. I think they are animals, not people,"

That sounds strangely familiar


Apparently its time to liquidate the ghettos...
 
2012-11-19 11:43:10 AM

DROxINxTHExWIND: The Gaza strip isn't the size of Texas, so it seems to me that there will ALWAYS be civilians in close proximity to military personnel.


Gaza is bigger than NYC. Gaza is also not as built up as NYC. Therefore, we assume there are many open spaces in Gaza, but we also have satellite that says so. Apparently, none of them is a "good spot" to fire rockets from.

They're not aiming at military targets. Whatever the facts of the conflict are, targeting civilians puts you in the wrong. Hamas (as an entity) has said over and again that their beef is with all Israelis everywhere, while Israel's (official, stated) beef is with militants.

The IDF takes over Hamas radio stations to warn people to clear the area they're about to bombard. They drop leaflets, informing people that the "area will be bombed because rocket fire came from that area - SO DON'T PAL AROUND WITH TERRORISTS, we will fire back." Hamas just kind of...fires (then aims).

That Iron Dome prevents civilian casualties (and that there are fewer on the Israeli side) means the Israelis are better at protecting their civilians. If Mexican paramilitary forces sent 130+ men on horseback to reconquer Texas, and they killed 3 people but lost 70, does America laugh it off? Repelling an attack doesn't negate the fact of it.

Palestinians have legitimate demands. Hamas does not. So long as Hamas speaks for Gaza, and that speech involves rocket fire, Israel has every right to force them to militarily STFU. When no one's firing on anyone else, THEN we can have some peace talks.

// my last entry to this thread
// arguing ME/Israel/Palestine - especially online - is a fool's errand
// and there's far more nuance than I care to type
// including my list of things Israel does wrong and their contributions to the ongoing troubles
 
2012-11-19 11:46:58 AM

PandaPorn: And isn't Israel almost impervious to rockets, with their Irondome systems? That apparently is the story I'm reading.



So, you are going with the "Israel can afford to put up an Iron Dome system everywhere so why stop the rockets being fired in Israel" argument?  By the by, they don't have Iron Dome everywhere. 
 
Seems a simpler answer might be to not shoot rockets at Dynamite Monkey.
 
2012-11-19 11:47:24 AM

I_C_Weener: Maybe the best option would be.  For every rocket fired from Gaza, Israel fires one back.  And unguided Qassam rocket...just like Hamas uses.  Who knows where it will land?  But at least it won't be likely to do any  more damage than Hamas has done, right?
 
Equal and opposite response.  Or if it is a larger size rocket, reply in kind. 
 
Eventually, I imagine Gaza would get tired of random rockets being tossed their way.


Well, diplomacy is the best option, with no innocent bystanders killed. But that's apparently not in the cards. All these rockets will solve nothing. I think that no retaliation by Israel, however justified, will cause the Palestinians to give up. Not as long as they don't have other viable economic options (i.e. jobs). Which most, particularly in Gaza, don't have.
 
2012-11-19 11:50:44 AM

I_C_Weener: So, you are going with the "Israel can afford to put up an Iron Dome system everywhere so why stop the rockets being fired in Israel" argument?  By the by, they don't have Iron Dome everywhere. 
 
Seems a simpler answer might be to not shoot rockets at Dynamite Monkey.


No, I'm saying that not retaliating causes less casualties.
 
2012-11-19 11:51:49 AM
Places like this are the reason we need atheist missionaries. I doubt everything could be solved over time by convincing people that their imaginary friend in the sky likely doesn't exist, much less give two shiats about where you park your sedan, but it couldn't hurt.
 
2012-11-19 11:52:56 AM
It's good for taking more land from your enemies. Just ask the Israelis.

3.bp.blogspot.com

About 30 more years and Palestine will be but a memory.
 
2012-11-19 11:53:13 AM

PandaPorn: I_C_Weener: Maybe the best option would be.  For every rocket fired from Gaza, Israel fires one back.  And unguided Qassam rocket...just like Hamas uses.  Who knows where it will land?  But at least it won't be likely to do any  more damage than Hamas has done, right?
 
Equal and opposite response.  Or if it is a larger size rocket, reply in kind. 
 
Eventually, I imagine Gaza would get tired of random rockets being tossed their way.

Well, diplomacy is the best option, with no innocent bystanders killed. But that's apparently not in the cards. All these rockets will solve nothing. I think that no retaliation by Israel, however justified, will cause the Palestinians to give up. Not as long as they don't have other viable economic options (i.e. jobs). Which most, particularly in Gaza, don't have.




Indeed. If you put people in a position where they feel they have nothing left to lose, they'll behave accordingly. That's not going to end well.
 
2012-11-19 11:53:23 AM

PandaPorn: So your complaint is not that slaughter and slavery is bad, just that it happens under the wrong pretense. Classy.


Look, the hard cold fact is that people like war. We love the wailing women, the starving children dying in the streets, the smell of blood and shiat and death. We love destruction. We love rape. We love slavery. We love fear. We love to watch a man crying while he tries helplessly to shovel his intestines back into his ripped gut. We love it when a small toddler suffocates under the body of her dead mother, softly whimpering and pissing herself until all the breath is gone. We love this thing that creates a living hell on earth that exceeds the limits of poetry. We love to carnage.

Liberals like to pretend like humans want to live in a world without war. Reality disagrees.

Five hundred years ago, either the Palestinians or the Israelis would have met en masse with pointy sticks and actually found a final solution for this conflict, and the world would have hardly noticed, much less cared. Today, the bloodthirsty gods of ware are still slaking their thirst on the drippings, but everyone has to pretend like there is something noble and clean about what they are doing.

Forget that. The two sides should just kill everything, then rape the shiat out of anything that isn't killed, then set everything on fire. In fifty years, some old hens will walk around still crying over children who have been dead longer than they were ever alive, and some people will make some black-and-white movies about it and win Oscars. Blah blah blah.
 
2012-11-19 11:53:33 AM

PandaPorn: I_C_Weener: Maybe the best option would be.  For every rocket fired from Gaza, Israel fires one back.  And unguided Qassam rocket...just like Hamas uses.  Who knows where it will land?  But at least it won't be likely to do any  more damage than Hamas has done, right?
 
Equal and opposite response.  Or if it is a larger size rocket, reply in kind. 
 
Eventually, I imagine Gaza would get tired of random rockets being tossed their way.

Well, diplomacy is the best option, with no innocent bystanders killed. But that's apparently not in the cards. All these rockets will solve nothing. I think that no retaliation by Israel, however justified, will cause the Palestinians to give up. Not as long as they don't have other viable economic options (i.e. jobs). Which most, particularly in Gaza, don't have.



The problem for Gaza is that in the game of high stakes poker they are playing, they have no good cards and never have.  All they have succeeded in doing is making Israel less likely to change tactics.  It went from a seized territory due to a prior war, to an attempt at military rule, to an open borders situation to another military rule setup to open borders to a complete and utter walling them off since they can't be good and dealign with rocket attacks on an almost daily basis.
 
The West Bank has played nicer and received a nicer response.
 
2012-11-19 11:54:43 AM

PandaPorn: I_C_Weener: So, you are going with the "Israel can afford to put up an Iron Dome system everywhere so why stop the rockets being fired in Israel" argument?  By the by, they don't have Iron Dome everywhere. 
 
Seems a simpler answer might be to not shoot rockets at Dynamite Monkey.

No, I'm saying that not retaliating causes less casualties.



Maybe, but at some point if you don't stand up to those shooting rockets at you, you end up not protecting your own citizens.
 
2012-11-19 11:56:34 AM

The Larch: Forget that. The two sides should just kill everything, then rape the shiat out of anything that isn't killed, then set everything on fire. In fifty years, some old hens will walk around still crying over children who have been dead longer than they were ever alive, and some people will make some black-and-white movies about it and win Oscars. Blah blah blah.



Nobody cares about Rwanda or Yugoslavia anymore, amirite?  Sadly, kinda.
 
2012-11-19 11:56:56 AM

Dr Dreidel: Gaza is bigger than NYC. Gaza is also not as built up as NYC. Therefore, we assume there are many open spaces in Gaza, but we also have satellite that says so. Apparently, none of them is a "good spot" to fire rockets from.

They're not aiming at military targets. Whatever the facts of the conflict are, targeting civilians puts you in the wrong. Hamas (as an entity) has said over and again that their beef is with all Israelis everywhere, while Israel's (official, stated) beef is with militants.

The IDF takes over Hamas radio stations to warn people to clear the area they're about to bombard. They drop leaflets, informing people that the "area will be bombed because rocket fire came from that area - SO DON'T PAL AROUND WITH TERRORISTS, we will fire back." Hamas just kind of...fires (then aims).

That Iron Dome prevents civilian casualties (and that there are fewer on the Israeli side) means the Israelis are better at protecting their civilians. If Mexican paramilitary forces sent 130+ men on horseback to reconquer Texas, and they killed 3 people but lost 70, does America laugh it off? Repelling an attack doesn't negate the fact of it.

Palestinians have legitimate demands. Hamas does not. So long as Hamas speaks for Gaza, and that speech involves rocket fire, Israel has every right to force them to militarily STFU. When no one's firing on anyone else, THEN we can have some peace talks.


Nearly every single thing you have claimed in this post is factually incorrect. Just say "I really love blood. Blood blood blood blood blood blood blood blood blood, or glorious blood, let me bathe in you and rub you on my nipples." At least be honest with yourself about what you really want. Stop lying to yourself, and stop lying to us.
 
2012-11-19 11:56:56 AM

I_C_Weener: The West Bank has played nicer and received a nicer response.


i560.photobucket.com

The israelis see the WB as a development site. They're not going to bomb their own colonies, but the WB people have not in any way been treated "nicer" than the people of Gaza.
 
2012-11-19 11:57:46 AM

qualtrough: I find it surprising to see that so many people would be totally cool with someone coming into their home with a 2,000+ year old title deed issued by an unseen person in the sky and tossing them out.


So your cool with their newer deed issued by a different unseen sky person?
 
2012-11-19 11:59:19 AM

The Larch: Look, the hard cold fact is that people like war. We love the wailing women, the starving children dying in the streets, the smell of blood and shiat and death. We love destruction. We love rape. We love slavery. We love fear. We love to watch a man crying while he tries helplessly to shovel his intestines back into his ripped gut. We love it when a small toddler suffocates under the body of her dead mother, softly whimpering and pissing herself until all the breath is gone. We love this thing that creates a living hell on earth that exceeds the limits of poetry. We love to carnage.


No, no people don't like that. Some people may like that. They've been farking things up since man learned to walk upright. Luckily a couple of thousand years of progress is making it less and less likely for people like that to take the reigns. (You're probably trolling, but let me feed you a little more)
 
2012-11-19 11:59:57 AM

PandaPorn: I_C_Weener: So, you are going with the "Israel can afford to put up an Iron Dome system everywhere so why stop the rockets being fired in Israel" argument?  By the by, they don't have Iron Dome everywhere. 
 
Seems a simpler answer might be to not shoot rockets at Dynamite Monkey.

No, I'm saying that not retaliating causes less casualties.



So, is there any point in time when it is okay for the main ruling entity (Say Israel) to come in and say you can't keep shooting rockets at civilians?  Put it in the perspective of the US.  Say some people in Indiana were lobbing rockets across the border into Ohio.  Say, 8,000 over the last 4 years.  Does the U.S. government have the authority to come in and do something about it?  What if it were, say Puerto Rico doing that to Miami (to give it a minor international flare)? 
 
I don't think Israel is innocent here, but Israel is almost always reacting to the Palestinians, not jsut up and deciding "Hey, on November 17th of this year, lets bomb the crap out of the Gaza strip."  They didn't do it for the prior 4 years that they were being fired on.
 
2012-11-19 12:01:23 PM

EyeballKid: Places like this are the reason we need atheist missionaries. I doubt everything could be solved over time by convincing people that their imaginary friend in the sky likely doesn't exist, much less give two shiats about where you park your sedan, but it couldn't hurt.



So, you're going to go into the Middle East to tell people GOD doesn't exist? You would be dead in an hour.
 
2012-11-19 12:02:02 PM

The Larch: Nearly every single thing you have claimed in this post is factually incorrect. Just say "I really love blood. Blood blood blood blood blood blood blood blood blood, or glorious blood, let me bathe in you and rub you on my nipples." At least be honest with yourself about what you really want. Stop lying to yourself, and stop lying to us.


That's precisely what I mean by posting being a waste. Thanks for proving my point.

// also, thanks for adding nothing to the discussion
 
2012-11-19 12:03:25 PM
It's like watching America murder Indians, on TV.
 
2012-11-19 12:04:50 PM

I_C_Weener: The problem for Gaza is that in the game of high stakes poker they are playing, they have no good cards and never have.  All they have succeeded in doing is making Israel less likely to change tactics.  It went from a seized territory due to a prior war, to an attempt at military rule, to an open borders situation to another military rule setup to open borders to a complete and utter walling them off since they can't be good and dealign with rocket attacks on an almost daily basis.
 
The West Bank has played nicer and received a nicer response.


They certainly are trying to break them and beat them into submission, but what if that doesn't work? If you take that a step further it will be genocide. I refuse to believe that Israel (of all states) is willing to take that step.

(unfortunately this has to be my last post today. I bid you farewell fellow farkers)
 
2012-11-19 12:05:33 PM
I need to clear up my 8,000 rockets in 4 years number.  Per Wikipedia, it is more like 8,600 since 2001.  Each year, the rockets get more sophisticated and longer range too.
 
2012-11-19 12:06:21 PM
Here's what gets me about Israel: They are always inflicting disproportionate punishment on what amounts to an imprisoned population. Even before Hamas was elected to power, Israel controlled everything going in and out of Gaza, including power and water! When terrorists would snipe at IDF, the israelis would take bulldozers to the orchards and mow everything down, even though there was no proof the farmer had any knowledge of what the terrorists were doing in his goddamn orchard. So now you have these civilians whose houses and their means to make a living are destroyed...and you wonder why they back a group that claims it will fight for them.
As far as Palestinians are concerned, they are like the Irish who would like nothing better than to have the foreign occupiers out of their f*cking land.
 
2012-11-19 12:06:27 PM

I_C_Weener: I don't think Israel is innocent here, but Israel is almost always reacting to the Palestinians,


...and the palestinians are almost always reacting to the israelis.

not jsut up and deciding "Hey, on November 17th of this year, lets bomb the crap out of the Gaza strip."

IIRC Netanyahu has an election coming up.
 
2012-11-19 12:06:54 PM

Dr Dreidel: The Larch: Nearly every single thing you have claimed in this post is factually incorrect. Just say "I really love blood. Blood blood blood blood blood blood blood blood blood, or glorious blood, let me bathe in you and rub you on my nipples." At least be honest with yourself about what you really want. Stop lying to yourself, and stop lying to us.

That's precisely what I mean by posting being a waste. Thanks for proving my point.

// also, thanks for adding nothing to the discussion


/HAH...PWNT
 
2012-11-19 12:08:22 PM

PandaPorn: I refuse to believe that Israel (of all states) is willing to take that step.


What makes you say that? FTFA:

"If you ask me, I think we have to destroy Gaza. I think they are animals, not people,"

The necessary hate is already present.
 
2012-11-19 12:08:26 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: EyeballKid: Places like this are the reason we need atheist missionaries. I doubt everything could be solved over time by convincing people that their imaginary friend in the sky likely doesn't exist, much less give two shiats about where you park your sedan, but it couldn't hurt.


So, you're going to go into the Middle East to tell people GOD doesn't exist? You would be dead in an hour.


/Nope, but trying to introduce Christianity there would get you a foot shorter.
 
2012-11-19 12:08:47 PM

I_C_Weener: So, is there any point in time when it is okay for the main ruling entity (Say Israel) to come in and say you can't keep shooting rockets at civilians?  Put it in the perspective of the US.  Say some people in Indiana were lobbing rockets across the border into Ohio.  Say, 8,000 over the last 4 years.  Does the U.S. government have the authority to come in and do something about it?  What if it were, say Puerto Rico doing that to Miami (to give it a minor international flare)? 
 
I don't think Israel is innocent here, but Israel is almost always reacting to the Palestinians, not jsut up and deciding "Hey, on November 17th of this year, lets bomb the crap out of the Gaza strip."  They didn't do it for the prior 4 years that they were being fired on.


(one more quick post)
I think there's far too much emotional response instead of rational (e.g. they shot first, they deserve it, reap what you sow, etc.). In the end it is a simple calculation: whatever causes the least casualties is the most desirable outcome.
 
2012-11-19 12:09:58 PM

I_C_Weener: I need to clear up my 8,000 rockets in 4 years number.  Per Wikipedia, it is more like 8,600 since 2001.  Each year, the rockets get more sophisticated and longer range too.



Though if you count them up by year, it is 4,514 rocket attacks since 2007.  And about equal mortar attacks.
 
2012-11-19 12:10:52 PM

Uncle Tractor: and the palestinians are almost always reacting to the israelis.



Since 2001, over 8000 rocket attacks.   About the same in mortar attacks.  Reacting to Israel?  Really? 
 
2012-11-19 12:11:06 PM
Tolstoy's mistress had a good point.
 
2012-11-19 12:11:54 PM

PandaPorn: I think there's far too much emotional response instead of rational (e.g. they shot first, they deserve it, reap what you sow, etc.). In the end it is a simple calculation: whatever causes the least casualties is the most desirable outcome.



In this case, (and you have a nice day), I don't think Israel doing nothing will slow or stop the rocket attacks.
 
2012-11-19 12:13:41 PM

I_C_Weener: PandaPorn: I_C_Weener: So, you are going with the "Israel can afford to put up an Iron Dome system everywhere so why stop the rockets being fired in Israel" argument?  By the by, they don't have Iron Dome everywhere. 
 
Seems a simpler answer might be to not shoot rockets at Dynamite Monkey.

No, I'm saying that not retaliating causes less casualties.


So, is there any point in time when it is okay for the main ruling entity (Say Israel) to come in and say you can't keep shooting rockets at civilians?  Put it in the perspective of the US.  Say some people in Indiana were lobbing rockets across the border into Ohio.  Say, 8,000 over the last 4 years.  Does the U.S. government have the authority to come in and do something about it?  What if it were, say Puerto Rico doing that to Miami (to give it a minor international flare)? 
 
I don't think Israel is innocent here, but Israel is almost always reacting to the Palestinians, not jsut up and deciding "Hey, on November 17th of this year, lets bomb the crap out of the Gaza strip."  They didn't do it for the prior 4 years that they were being fired on.



Allow me to help make your comparison a little more relevant. Lets say that Ohio went into Indiana and took Fort Wayne and most of Indianapolis and claimed them as part of Ohio. Then, they treated the people from Indiana who were in those areas like second class citizens. The people of Fort Wayne and those in the other Indiana/Ohio territories, in stead of accepting the usurping of their land, fights back with their inferior weapons. In "retaliation" the Ohio government authorizes air strikes that kill innocent civilians and they bulldoze houses in Fort Wayne, Indiana and rebuild them for Ohio residents. Who is to blame for the conflict?
 
2012-11-19 12:15:32 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: I_C_Weener: PandaPorn: I_C_Weener: So, you are going with the "Israel can afford to put up an Iron Dome system everywhere so why stop the rockets being fired in Israel" argument?  By the by, they don't have Iron Dome everywhere. 
 
Seems a simpler answer might be to not shoot rockets at Dynamite Monkey.

No, I'm saying that not retaliating causes less casualties.


So, is there any point in time when it is okay for the main ruling entity (Say Israel) to come in and say you can't keep shooting rockets at civilians?  Put it in the perspective of the US.  Say some people in Indiana were lobbing rockets across the border into Ohio.  Say, 8,000 over the last 4 years.  Does the U.S. government have the authority to come in and do something about it?  What if it were, say Puerto Rico doing that to Miami (to give it a minor international flare)? 
 
I don't think Israel is innocent here, but Israel is almost always reacting to the Palestinians, not jsut up and deciding "Hey, on November 17th of this year, lets bomb the crap out of the Gaza strip."  They didn't do it for the prior 4 years that they were being fired on.


Allow me to help make your comparison a little more relevant. Lets say that Ohio went into Indiana and took Fort Wayne and most of Indianapolis and claimed them as part of Ohio. Then, they treated the people from Indiana who were in those areas like second class citizens. The people of Fort Wayne and those in the other Indiana/Ohio territories, in stead of accepting the usurping of their land, fights back with their inferior weapons. In "retaliation" the Ohio government authorizes air strikes that kill innocent civilians and they bulldoze houses in Fort Wayne, Indiana and rebuild them for Ohio residents. Who is to blame for the conflict?



If you can't learn in 60+ years that Israel is and will continue to be a country, then, you can't be taught.  And yes, those lands were seized.  While we are at it, lets give the US back to Britain, and Canada back to France, and virtually every other country in the world that was conquered at one point in time or another. 
 
2012-11-19 12:16:34 PM

Dr Dreidel: That's precisely what I mean by posting being a waste. Thanks for proving my point.


Your posts are a waste because you a liar. You are a liar who repeats the words of liars; you are a grocery clerk delivering bags of lies.

Israel isn't retaliating against sites where rockets are launched. Israel is destroying government offices, destroying the homes of government officials, and shooting guided missiles at the cell phones of government officials.

Even if these attacks are retaliation for rockets, these attacks are not being directed at the rockets, or the people who fired the rockets, or even in many cases the people who are involved with the rockets. Instead, many of the Israeli attacks are directed at the families of government officials in Gaza. The attacks are personal.

And your crap about Iron Dome is worse than silly. The rockets the Palestinians fire at Israel are mostly noneffective because they're crappy unguided tubes welded together out of parts you can buy in an American convenience store. The rockets are impossible to aim, and carry tiny payloads. Some theater defense system that has just started initial field testing a few days ago isn't the reason those rockets haven't hit very much for the last thirty years, and frankly I'm incredulous that even you would believe such pap.
 
2012-11-19 12:21:02 PM

I_C_Weener: While we are at it, lets give the US back to Britain, and Canada back to France, and virtually every other country in the world that was conquered at one point in time or another.


'Within living memory' is a little different than 2+ centuries ago...unless you are Israel, in which case, 2000 years doesn't invalidate your claim to anything west of the Jordan River.
 
2012-11-19 12:23:21 PM
Meh, it's good for arms sales. You have to look at the positive.
 
2012-11-19 12:23:29 PM

Bit'O'Gristle: The facts are.

1. Hamas fires unguided rockets at Israel, not really caring if they blow up innocent civilians.
2. Israel uses high tech guided munitions to try to stop the rocket attacks, but due to civilian proximity, sadly there are civilian deaths.
3. Hamas parades around with killed children saying "LOOK what the Zionists did!!" while they wail and gnash their teeth, even though they invited the strikes due to fighting from civilian areas.
4. Hamas fights from civilian buildings, inviting fire that could injure or kill non combatants.
5. Hamas gets more rockets from Iran, and has a early fourth of july, screaming "god is great" while praying that the rockets land on some person's house, killing their family.
6. Israel does more guided strikes,
7. Ad nauseum.
It's never going to stop. Hamas and the Palestinians want Jerusalem, and the Israelis wont give it up. So they are going to continue to snipe at one another until Israel gets pissed off enough to roll in the tanks and start chumming up houses until gaza looks like a smoking crater.


Hoss, you really need to learn how to use the term "facts" . Israel's "precision-guided" munitions have killed more than a dozen civilians so far, and not because Hamas was using them as human shields. n fact Israel has, as a matter of military polciy deliberately attacked civilian populations in Gaza, civilian businesses and factories, and even UN refugeee compounds as a way to "punish" Gaza for the rocket attacks.

There are no choirboys on either side. Basically its a case of two governments who both have an extremely shaky hold on power using military action to gin up support and distract people from thier other failings.
 
2012-11-19 12:23:40 PM
The Larch

I said I wouldn't respond, and you're not baiting me into changing that position. I'm not going to convince you of anything (you seem set in an opinion), and you're not going to convince me of anything (because I very much am, and with family/friends in Israel - on both sides of this debate - I'm not likely to budge either).

If you want to have a real discussion about this, I could maybe be convinced - but not online, not today (I'm at work) and not if you're going to lead with that.
 
2012-11-19 12:31:03 PM

Thorak: "If you ask me, I think we have to destroy Gaza. I think they are animals, not people"

And that, in a nutshell, is why this issue is at best evil farks shooting at other marginally different evil farks. And the real problem is that plenty of innocents on either side are the ones doing the dying


Your analysis, in a nutshell, is why you are too willfully ignorant/stupid to understand the conflict. The article goes on to explain that isn't the stance of most Israeli people. You ignore the fact that the people of Gaza elected a group who actually have removing the jews in their charter.


Uncle Tractor: "If you ask me, I think we have to destroy Gaza. I think they are animals, not people,"

The necessary hate is already present


Good old Tractor double standards.

Palestenains elect a group that has removing all jews from Israel in their charter, no comment.

Some guy from Israel says this, and it is a clear indication that "the necessary hate is already present" for genocide.
 
2012-11-19 12:32:31 PM

TheOther: I_C_Weener: While we are at it, lets give the US back to Britain, and Canada back to France, and virtually every other country in the world that was conquered at one point in time or another.

'Within living memory' is a little different than 2+ centuries ago...unless you are Israel, in which case, 2000 years doesn't invalidate your claim to anything west of the Jordan River.



So, you agree that just ignoring Israel until no one alive can remember pre-1947 is the best option?
 
2012-11-19 12:33:19 PM

I_C_Weener:

If you can't learn in 60+ years that Israel is and will continue to be a country, then, you can't be taught.  And yes, those lands were seized.  While we are at it, lets give the US back to Britain, and Can ...


Smh. You know, 60 years ago my grandmother was an adult. This shiat happened less than a lifetime ago. Its not as long ago as you seem to think it is. Its sad that you and many others think that its acceptable to draw an imaginary line in the sand after 1947 that excuses Israel's actions and makes Palestinians the aggressor for defending what is theirs and longing for what has been taken. I'm glad MLK, Malcolm X and others didn't stop seeking justice because there had been oppresion for 60 years. Just feeding my curiosity, at what point SHOULD people be expected to give in to injustice? 10 years in? 25 years?
 
2012-11-19 12:34:49 PM

Dr Dreidel: I said I wouldn't respond, and you're not baiting me into changing that position. I'm not going to convince you of anything (you seem set in an opinion), and you're not going to convince me of anything (because I very much am, and with family/friends in Israel - on both sides of this debate - I'm not likely to budge either).


Look, my opinion is snarky and facetious; every opinion I have spouted on fark is not my true opinion, and I have said them only because I sort of enjoy trolling.

But my facts are not snarky. My facts are true. And your claims are mostly lies. You are a liar, delivering lies and deceit in this thread. Perhaps you are not a dishonorable man, and are simply a misinformed man. It makes little or no difference to me; you have the world of information available to you at your fingertips, and you choose to ignore what is true in preference for soft seductive lies that make you feel comfortable. I have no interest in having a discussion with you at any level about the facts; I am never going to pull your security blanket of lies off of you until you decide you don't need it any more.

At this point, the only thing I'm interested in doing is thumbing my nose at you and farting in your general direction. And I shall do this because I enjoy farting, and not because I have any great interest in your olfactory experience.
 
2012-11-19 12:35:37 PM

I_C_Weener: TheOther: I_C_Weener: While we are at it, lets give the US back to Britain, and Canada back to France, and virtually every other country in the world that was conquered at one point in time or another.

'Within living memory' is a little different than 2+ centuries ago...unless you are Israel, in which case, 2000 years doesn't invalidate your claim to anything west of the Jordan River.


So, you agree that just ignoring Israel until no one alive can remember pre-1947 is the best option?


How about just ignoring it in general?
 
2012-11-19 12:40:18 PM

The Larch: At this point, the only thing I'm interested in doing is thumbing my nose at you and farting in your general direction.


Enjoy!

// and like I said before: thanks for contributing to the discussion
 
2012-11-19 12:43:05 PM

Dr Dreidel: The Larch: At this point, the only thing I'm interested in doing is thumbing my nose at you and farting in your general direction.

Enjoy!

// and like I said before: thanks for contributing to the discussion


And thanks for being a liar who likes to wrap himself in the soft warm blanket of self delusion. Even if you can't smell my farts, it's clear that you are enjoying your own little farts a little too much in that tight little bedroll you've created for yourself.
 
2012-11-19 12:43:08 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: Its sad that you and many others think that its acceptable to draw an imaginary line in the sand after 1947 that excuses Israel's actions and makes Palestinians the aggressor for defending what is theirs and longing for what has been taken.


How, exactly, does lobbing rockets at civilians defend anything of "theirs"?

And what exactly do you think is "theirs"?
 
2012-11-19 12:43:44 PM

I_C_Weener: If you can't learn in 60+ years that Israel is and will continue to be a country, then, you can't be taught. And yes, those lands were seized. While we are at it, lets give the US back to Britain, and Canada back to France, and virtually every other country in the world that was conquered at one point in time or another.



Indeed, but apparently these people don't know that they have lost. This is the problem with Israel fighting a half-assed war.

Either go full-out and break their sense of cultural identity to the point where the Palestinians loose all will to resist (and probably don't even consider themselves Palestinians anymore), or just go full "final solution" and liquidate the ghettos.

images.wikia.com
People should know when they are conquered.
 
2012-11-19 12:52:54 PM
Stealing other peoples land and resources, and erasing debt.
 
2012-11-19 12:58:34 PM
Henry Rollins in Israel Link
 
2012-11-19 01:07:32 PM

I_C_Weener: Since 2001, over 8000 rocket attacks.   About the same in mortar attacks.  Reacting to Israel?  Really?


8000 rocket attacks that have caused ...how many israeli deaths? 28?

Meanwhile, over a thousand palestinian children have been killed since then, thousands of palestinian homes demolished, olive trees destroyed, crops ruined and farmland stolen, the colonies keep expanding, WB colonists go on rampages whenever they want, and mossad and the IDF kill whomever they want wherever and however. So yes, they're reacting to Israel.

What's 28 deaths from oversized bottle rockets when compared to that? ...but I suppose it doesn't matter when the victims are arabs.
FWIW I think Hamas should cut it out. They only thing they achieve is to give Israel an excuse to kill more arabs (which somehow makes Hamas look better, so I suppose that's why they keep doing it).

i560.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-19 01:09:52 PM

liam76: Good old Tractor double standards.

Palestenains elect a group that has removing all jews from Israel in their charter, no comment.

Some guy from Israel says this, and it is a clear indication that "the necessary hate is already present" for genocide.


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-11-19 01:10:30 PM
static.guim.co.uk

Can't wait to rebuild after the terrorist threat has been neutralized.
 
2012-11-19 01:13:34 PM
The only way this will end is if the civilians on both sides start telling their governments in no uncertain terms that it's ceasefire time. I really, really hope that happens soon.
 
2012-11-19 01:17:20 PM

Uncle Tractor: FWIW I think Hamas should cut it out. They only thing they achieve is to give Israel an excuse to kill more arabs (which somehow makes Hamas look better, so I suppose that's why they keep doing it).


They only look better to morons who ignore that they place rocket launchers in the middle of neighborhoods filled with children and civilians putting them at risk.

Uncle Tractor: Meanwhile, over a thousand palestinian children have been killed since then, thousands of palestinian homes demolished, olive trees destroyed, crops ruined and farmland stolen, the colonies keep expanding, WB colonists go on rampages whenever they want, and mossad and the IDF kill whomever they want wherever and however.


As stated above the destruction of Palestenaisn property is directly caused by Hamas cowardly tactics of placingt he lives of their fighters above the lives of civilians and children.

As far as colonies expanding, what happned in 05 when Israel removed their settlements from Gaza by force? More rocket attacks.

I am nto a fan of WB settlers, nor do Ithinkt hey shoudl allow them, but don;t lie about them killing and expanding at will.

Israeli police arrested four Israeli settlers in the West Bank settlement of Yitzhar on Monday, accusing them of "attacks on public order," a police spokeswoman said.

The Shin Bet security service on Tuesday arrested the head of a West Bank religious seminary for his alleged involvement in the torching of a Palestinian mosque in the village of Yasuf last month.

Settlers Arrested as Israeli Troops Raze West Bank Outpost
 
2012-11-19 01:20:55 PM
This went almost 50 comments before the reference was noted
 
2012-11-19 01:23:53 PM

Lando Lincoln: It's good for taking more land from your enemies. Just ask the Israelis.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 809x438]

About 30 more years and Palestine will be but a memory.


God willing.
 
2012-11-19 01:25:21 PM
I like this blog: The Real Jerusalem Streets, mostly for the pics.
 
2012-11-19 01:26:31 PM

liam76: Your analysis, in a nutshell, is why you are too willfully ignorant/stupid to understand the conflict. The article goes on to explain that isn't the stance of most Israeli people. You ignore the fact that the people of Gaza elected a group who actually have removing the jews in their charter.


Palestinians elect people who fire rockets at Israel.
Israelis elect people who fire rockets at Palestinians.

They're not that different. And Israel has had plenty of official government documents and policies describing their intent to disenfranchise and remove Palestinians. What the heck do you think their illegal settlements were about?

The thing is, I don't ignore the relevant history. This has been going on a heck of a lot longer than Hamas. They're a symptom, not the cause. They were only elected in 2007, and have only existed since 1987. The issues in question date politically from today to the '40s primarily, and culturally back thousands of years.
 
2012-11-19 01:27:06 PM

liam76: They only look better to morons who ignore that they place rocket launchers in the middle of neighborhoods filled with children and civilians putting them at risk.


Where in Gaza is not in the middle of a neighborhood filled with children and civilians? the civilians are kinda concentrated there, you know?

As stated above the destruction of Palestenaisn property is directly caused by Hamas cowardly tactics of placingt he lives of their fighters above the lives of civilians and children.

In the WB? Really?

Israeli police arrested four Israeli settlers in the West Bank settlement of Yitzhar on Monday, accusing them of "attacks on public order," a police spokeswoman said.

The Shin Bet security service on Tuesday arrested the head of a West Bank religious seminary for his alleged involvement in the torching of a Palestinian mosque in the village of Yasuf last month.

Settlers Arrested as Israeli Troops Raze West Bank Outpost


Yeah, some of them get arrested. Then what?
 
2012-11-19 01:27:20 PM
The German Israeli people will have no right to engage in a colonial policy until they shall have brought all their children together in the one State. When the territory of the REICH Israel embraces all the Germans Jews and finds itself unable to assure them a livelihood, only then can the moral right arise, from the need of the people to acquire foreign territory. The plough is then the sword; and the tears of war will produce the daily bread for the generations to come. 

/er, couldn't the world tell that guy was nuts from the get go? I mean, it was the second paragraph in Mein Kampf. Come on!!1!
 
2012-11-19 01:27:24 PM

Uncle Tractor: What's 28 deaths from oversized bottle rockets when compared to that? ...but I suppose it doesn't matter when the victims are arabs.
FWIW I think Hamas should cut it out. They only thing they achieve is to give Israel an excuse to kill more arabs (which somehow makes Hamas look better, so I suppose that's why they keep doing it).


More to the point, they keep doing it because it makes Israel look bad. The folks who are funding and supplying the rockets don't seem to care much about the Palestinians; they have their own goals and motivations related to their power struggles in their own countries, and the economic blockades and military retribution by Israel against Gaza helps the actors supplying those rockets to achieve those goals.
 
2012-11-19 01:27:34 PM
any non-jew who criticizes Israel is an anti-semite. any non-jew who doesn't criticize Israel is a well-disciplined anti-semite.
 
2012-11-19 01:28:37 PM

Joe Blowme: How about self defense? Random rocket attacks on your civilian populace tends to produce war.


Finally, some common sense.

If your next door neighbors rain missiles upon your people, going to war cures that little problem. Hamas has basically been waging undeclared war against Israeli civilians for years. Now Israel has finally called them out on it.

I realize that on the internet, useful idiots are the norm, but can you guys stop repeating that "Jews think all non-Jews are animals" canard? Go back to Stormfront if you really think that way.
 
2012-11-19 01:29:18 PM

Uncle Tractor: liam76: Good old Tractor double standards.

Palestenains elect a group that has removing all jews from Israel in their charter, no comment.

Some guy from Israel says this, and it is a clear indication that "the necessary hate is already present" for genocide.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 450x600]


So you have no defence for your glaring double standards, so you are going to pretend you are tired of hearing about them? Ok.
 
2012-11-19 01:29:25 PM

PsiChick: The only way this will end is if the civilians on both sides start telling their governments in no uncertain terms that it's ceasefire time. I really, really hope that happens soon.


Yeah, how did that work for us anti-war Americans? And WE live in a Democracy.
 
2012-11-19 01:29:45 PM

Lando Lincoln: About 30 more years and Palestine will be but a memory.


Yup. That's how ya do it.
 
2012-11-19 01:32:09 PM

sodomizer: Joe Blowme: How about self defense? Random rocket attacks on your civilian populace tends to produce war.

Finally, some common sense.

If your next door neighbors rain missiles upon your people, going to war cures that little problem. Hamas has basically been waging undeclared war against Israeli civilians for years. Now Israel has finally called them out on it.

I realize that on the internet, useful idiots are the norm, but can you guys stop repeating that "Jews think all non-Jews are animals" canard? Go back to Stormfront if you really think that way.


Please sir, tell me why do you think Hamas was formed?
 
2012-11-19 01:43:12 PM

Thorak: Palestinians elect people who fire rockets at Israel, and having removing all the jews in their charter.
Israelis elect people who fire rockets at return fire at Palestinians.


FTFY.


Thorak: They're not that different. And Israel has had plenty of official government documents and policies describing their intent to disenfranchise and remove Palestinians. What the heck do you think their illegal settlements were about?


If that is the case why did they remove all settlments in Gaza? Why did the stop the settlments in the WB I listed above?


Thorak: The thing is, I don't ignore the relevant history. This has been going on a heck of a lot longer than Hamas. They're a symptom, not the cause. They were only elected in 2007, and have only existed since 1987. The issues in question date politically from today to the '40s primarily, and culturally back thousands of years


I would say politically it goes back about 30 years more than that.

None of it changes the fact that it i sdishonest to portray All of Israel through one guys statement, and then ignore the position of Hamas when they were elcted in Gaza.


Uncle Tractor: Where in Gaza is not in the middle of a neighborhood filled with children and civilians? the civilians are kinda concentrated there, you know?


The grey are buildings. The brown is mostly open area. Have you never actually looked at a map of Gaza?

Uncle Tractor: In the WB? Really?


There is widespread destruction in WB?


Uncle Tractor: Yeah, some of them get arrested. Then what?


they go on trial andif found guilty they are punished. Which goes agaisnt your BS claim of at will rampages.
 
2012-11-19 01:44:08 PM
the palestinians voted hamas into the majority in their parliament. hamas has vowed to destroy israel. it's hard to see a difference between soldier and civilian in this one.
 
2012-11-19 01:48:21 PM

liam76: If that is the case why did they remove all settlments in Gaza? Why did the stop the settlments in the WB I listed above?


Increasing UN criticism of their actions, which were contrary to the Geneva Convention.

The facts are; Israel has done a lot of nasty shiat, stuff that is illegal under the rules of war. As is recognized by the UN, I'm not making this up. They are not innocent bystanders being unfairly put upon.

None of it changes the fact that it i sdishonest to portray All of Israel through one guys statement, and then ignore the position of Hamas when they were elcted in Gaza.

I guess you missed where I called both sides evil farks, and specifically detailed that my venom was directed at the elected officials and those who champion their rhetoric rather than either population as if it were some united whole.

You're arguing against something I not only never claimed, but explicitly stated I was not saying.
 
2012-11-19 01:48:57 PM

liam76: Thorak: They're not that different. And Israel has had plenty of official government documents and policies describing their intent to disenfranchise and remove Palestinians. What the heck do you think their illegal settlements were about?

If that is the case why did they remove all settlments in Gaza? Why did the stop the settlments in the WB I listed above?


For the record I don't thinkt here is no bul;lying going on in the WB, nor do I support the settlments, but to say that justifeis rocket attacks is absurd.
 
2012-11-19 01:55:16 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: PsiChick: The only way this will end is if the civilians on both sides start telling their governments in no uncertain terms that it's ceasefire time. I really, really hope that happens soon.

Yeah, how did that work for us anti-war Americans? And WE live in a Democracy.


The Cold War did not turn into a Nuclear Winter Era.

/The reason we did not fire nukes, much like the reason Russia did not fire nukes, was because average people a) would have screamed bloody murder and b) occasionally actively got in the way, such as the occasional military person refusing to give the nessecary votes for firing.
//It's not perfect, and didn't fully work, but this isn't an actual declared war (yet), and enough public pressure can stop at least some of the violence.
 
2012-11-19 01:56:59 PM

iserlohn: Joe Blowme: PandaPorn: Didn't this bullshiat start when Israel assassinated a Hamas leader? Did that work out? Did Hamas give up? Because that would totally make everything worth it.

No, the 130+ rockets shot at civilians started it... this time.

Which was a reaction to the assassination no doubt...


When I read these IvP threads, and see comments this profoundly uninformed, I usually think, "Surely this is a troll, nobody is this clueless."

Then, I remember, this is Fark.

/and I'm in an IvP thread.
//it's thousands of missiles & mortars over the previous 7 years, over 800 this year prior to the assassination
///finally, Hamas got lucky with a few and actually killed some Israeli civilians, as opposed to simply blowing off a leg or scarring them for life, and also fired an anti-tank rocket at some IDF soldiers near the border
 
2012-11-19 01:58:19 PM

PsiChick: DROxINxTHExWIND: PsiChick: The only way this will end is if the civilians on both sides start telling their governments in no uncertain terms that it's ceasefire time. I really, really hope that happens soon.

Yeah, how did that work for us anti-war Americans? And WE live in a Democracy.

The Cold War did not turn into a Nuclear Winter Era.

/The reason we did not fire nukes, much like the reason Russia did not fire nukes, was because average people a) would have screamed bloody murder and b) occasionally actively got in the way, such as the occasional military person refusing to give the nessecary votes for firing.
//It's not perfect, and didn't fully work, but this isn't an actual declared war (yet), and enough public pressure can stop at least some of the violence.


That and our 2 peoples still loved life more that death, unlike the savages of Hamas and their ilk
 
2012-11-19 01:58:36 PM

Bit'O'Gristle: The facts are.

1. Hamas fires unguided rockets at Israel, not really caring if they blow up innocent civilians.
2. Israel uses high tech guided munitions to try to stop the rocket attacks, but due to civilian proximity, sadly there are civilian deaths.
3. Hamas parades around with killed children saying "LOOK what the Zionists did!!" while they wail and gnash their teeth, even though they invited the strikes due to fighting from civilian areas.
4. Hamas fights from civilian buildings, inviting fire that could injure or kill non combatants.
5. Hamas gets more rockets from Iran, and has a early fourth of july, screaming "god is great" while praying that the rockets land on some person's house, killing their family.
6. Israel does more guided strikes,
7. Ad nauseum.
It's never going to stop. Hamas and the Palestinians want Jerusalem, and the Israelis wont give it up. So they are going to continue to snipe at one another until Israel gets pissed off enough to roll in the tanks and start chumming up houses until gaza looks like a smoking crater.


Can we finally get to that last stage? Im kind of tired of watching my country, and many others, dip their noses into the Middle Easts business. Just sit back and let the place go royal rumble. Maybe after one nation/gruop/whatever finally emerges dominant we can get a little bit of quiet out of the place.

Maybe not...
 
2012-11-19 02:00:29 PM
The Hittites called, they want their homeland back.
 
2012-11-19 02:00:42 PM

Thorak: liam76: If that is the case why did they remove all settlments in Gaza? Why did the stop the settlments in the WB I listed above?

Increasing UN criticism of their actions, which were contrary to the Geneva Convention.


Interesting. So anything "positive" Israel does it is only because of pressure and can't be traced to s desire for peace?


Thorak: The facts are; Israel has done a lot of nasty shiat, stuff that is illegal under the rules of war. As is recognized by the UN, I'm not making this up. They are not innocent bystanders being unfairly put upon.


Yes they have done nasty shiat, and some is illegal under the rules of war, but most of the actions they get shiat for (returing fire at places where rockets comefrom) isn't illegal under the rules of war. Contrast that with Hamas whose actions almost all make use of human shields and are initiating mforce against civilians.


Thorak: I guess you missed where I called both sides evil farks, and specifically detailed that my venom was directed at the elected officials and those who champion their rhetoric rather than either population as if it were some united whole.


You called both sides evil, great. Did you miss where I was calling someoen out on their BS for painting 1 side as "evil" because of the comment of one dude, and ignoring the galring difference in support on both sides for wiping otu the other.
 
2012-11-19 02:02:55 PM

liam76: For the record I don't thinkt here is no bul;lying going on in the WB, nor do I support the settlments, but to say that justifeis rocket attacks is absurd.


I don't think anyone's saying it justifies rocket attacks. I don't think either side's been justified in the actions they've taken, and that's the root of the issue. I'm not siding with Palestine or Hamas, here. I'm saying everyone's being dicks about it and pursuing war rather than peace, so maybe the rest of the world should just cut off all support for everyone and let them sort it out for themselves on their own.

I do not accept that we should be picking a side in that fight.
 
2012-11-19 02:07:13 PM

Joe Blowme: That and our 2 peoples still loved life more that death, unlike the savages of Hamas Israel and their ilk


Just showing you exactly what you said there.

/Jesus H. F**k tap-dancing on a cracker, people, it is still not okay to call other people savages, animals, or otherwise indicate they are less than human. Did we learn nothing from the past fifty years?
 
2012-11-19 02:10:47 PM

liam76: Interesting. So anything "positive" Israel does it is only because of pressure and can't be traced to s desire for peace?


That would carry more weight if Israel wasn't currently bombing the Gaza Strip.

I don't believe Israel has a real desire for peace because they keep doing things, like that, which prevent it. Retaliation may be justified, but it's absolutely not the path to peace. "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind" and all that. Someone needs to be the first to stop the violence, and Israel is not trying to do that. If they were to make a serious effort, sure, but they've historically shown themselves to be unwilling to agree to the kinds of compromise necessary to secure any kind of lasting peace.

I'd be open to Israel seeking peace, but you can't seriously be arguing that that's what they're doing, when they're actively bombing as we speak. The only peace they're seeking is through victory, not compromise, right now. That doesn't mean they couldn't change tracks, I'm just describing their current stance. There's nothing inherent or unchangeable about this; it's just how their government is currently behaving.


liam76: You called both sides evil, great. Did you miss where I was calling someoen out on their BS for painting 1 side as "evil" because of the comment of one dude, and ignoring the galring difference in support on both sides for wiping otu the other.


You said that in response to one of my comments, not in response to that someone else. Don't blame me for your own misattribution.
 
2012-11-19 02:12:39 PM
Aaaand I got this photo thumbnail in the sidebar. My nightmares may now begin.

www.csmonitor.com
 
2012-11-19 02:13:51 PM

PsiChick: DROxINxTHExWIND: PsiChick: The only way this will end is if the civilians on both sides start telling their governments in no uncertain terms that it's ceasefire time. I really, really hope that happens soon.

Yeah, how did that work for us anti-war Americans? And WE live in a Democracy.

The Cold War did not turn into a Nuclear Winter Era.

/The reason we did not fire nukes, much like the reason Russia did not fire nukes, was because average people a) would have screamed bloody murder and b) occasionally actively got in the way, such as the occasional military person refusing to give the nessecary votes for firing.
//It's not perfect, and didn't fully work, but this isn't an actual declared war (yet), and enough public pressure can stop at least some of the violence.


It would have done us no good to scream bloody murder with nuclear missles on the way. The reason that the Cold War did not destroy us all was the threat of M.A.D. (Mutually Assured Destruction). The end of the Cold War had little to do with the threat of possibly disobedient soldiers.
 
2012-11-19 02:17:44 PM

PsiChick: Joe Blowme: That and our 2 peoples still loved life more that death, unlike the savages of Hamas Israel and their ilk

Just showing you exactly what you said there.

/Jesus H. F**k tap-dancing on a cracker, people, it is still not okay to call other people savages, animals, or otherwise indicate they are less than human. Did we learn nothing from the past fifty years?


PEACE IN OUR TIME!!!
 
2012-11-19 02:34:22 PM

Thorak: liam76: For the record I don't thinkt here is no bul;lying going on in the WB, nor do I support the settlments, but to say that justifeis rocket attacks is absurd.

I don't think anyone's saying it justifies rocket attacks.


Hang out in these threads a little longer, you will.


Thorak: I don't think either side's been justified in the actions they've taken, and that's the root of the issue.


Depends on what actions you are talking about. In my view Israel is 100% justified in striking back when rockets launched at them


Thorak: I'm not siding with Palestine or Hamas, here.


If you are saying Israel can't strick back when rockets are launched, you are.


Thorak:I'm saying everyone's being dicks about it and pursuing war rather than peace, so maybe the rest of the world should just cut off all support for everyone and let them sort it out for themselves on their own.

If hamas spoksmen are to believed Israel did try and ask for a ceasefire, instead of talking with them Mashaal goes public bragging that it was Israel that blinks first.

When Israel pulled out of Gaza and they were treated with rockets, who was being a dick?

I can understand saying cut off support, but if you have studied it you can't hoesntly said both have made equal attempts at peace. Hamas still has removing all the jews from Israel in its charter, and have not even acknowledged its right to exist.


I do not accept that we should be picking a side in that fight.

Fine, don't pick, but don't pretend they are the same.



Thorak: That would carry more weight if Israel wasn't currently bombing the Gaza Strip.


Once again, if you don;t think Israel has the right to respond to Hamas attacks you are choosing a side.

I don't believe Israel has a real desire for peace because they keep doing things, like that, which prevent it. Retaliation may be justified, but it's absolutely not the path to peace. "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind" and all that. Someone needs to be the first to stop the violence, and Israel is not trying to do that. If they were to make a serious effort, sure, but they've historically shown themselves to be unwilling to agree to the kinds of compromise necessary to secure any kind of lasting peace.

Rolling over isn't a path to peace either. As I said above, what happned whent hey left Gaza? Whathapepend whent hey asked for a cease fire?

Thorak: You said that in response to one of my comments, not in response to that someone else. Don't blame me for your own misattribution


You know what, my mistake. It was you I first responded to.

You made a judgement on Israel based on one comment. You ignore that only 1 group has elected people that have a platform that calls for removingt he other group completely.
 
2012-11-19 02:34:35 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: It would have done us no good to scream bloody murder with nuclear missles on the way. The reason that the Cold War did not destroy us all was the threat of M.A.D. (Mutually Assured Destruction). The end of the Cold War had little to do with the threat of possibly disobedient soldiers.


The first person on this list is a direct counter-example.

Joe Blowme: PEACE IN OUR TIME!!!


...Even if you think Hamas is the reincarnation of Nazi Germany, you still need to pay attention in kindergarten when they teach you not to call people names.
 
2012-11-19 02:43:16 PM

PsiChick: DROxINxTHExWIND: It would have done us no good to scream bloody murder with nuclear missles on the way. The reason that the Cold War did not destroy us all was the threat of M.A.D. (Mutually Assured Destruction). The end of the Cold War had little to do with the threat of possibly disobedient soldiers.

The first person on this list is a direct counter-example.


He didn't end the cold war. The threat of him didn't end the cold war.

Near mistakes like what were in that example helped end it.
 
2012-11-19 02:48:37 PM

Head_Shot: Aaaand I got this photo thumbnail in the sidebar. My nightmares may now begin.

[www.csmonitor.com image 600x400]


fear of grizzled old man face?
 
2012-11-19 02:55:57 PM

liam76: PsiChick: DROxINxTHExWIND: It would have done us no good to scream bloody murder with nuclear missles on the way. The reason that the Cold War did not destroy us all was the threat of M.A.D. (Mutually Assured Destruction). The end of the Cold War had little to do with the threat of possibly disobedient soldiers.

The first person on this list is a direct counter-example.

He didn't end the cold war. The threat of him didn't end the cold war.

Near mistakes like what were in that example helped end it.


No, he stopped the Cold War from turning into an all-out nuke-fest. What ended the Cold War was the collapse of the Soviet Union; what gave the Soviet Union enough time to safely collapse was the public pressure. That's why I think, for this specific scenario, public pressure would be helpful. It's not a formally-declared war; the region's been fighting for long enough for people to get sick of it; public pressure often causes international pressure; and both countries are republics, which means that at some stage there will at least be some type of election, and while faking election results is possible, it's a pain in the ass and has serious risks.

World events aren't mysterious or spring out of nowhere, and they are possible to counter creatively, or even counter-intuitively. You just have to understand the context and type of the situation.

/Admittedly, my understanding is at Internet Commentator level, but this is Fark, so aren't we all. :p
 
2012-11-19 02:59:57 PM

Uncle Tractor: I_C_Weener: Since 2001, over 8000 rocket attacks.   About the same in mortar attacks.  Reacting to Israel?  Really?

8000 rocket attacks that have caused ...how many israeli deaths? 28?

Meanwhile, over a thousand palestinian children have been killed since then, thousands of palestinian homes demolished, olive trees destroyed, crops ruined and farmland stolen, the colonies keep expanding, WB colonists go on rampages whenever they want, and mossad and the IDF kill whomever they want wherever and however. So yes, they're reacting to Israel.

What's 28 deaths from oversized bottle rockets when compared to that? ...but I suppose it doesn't matter when the victims are arabs.
FWIW I think Hamas should cut it out. They only thing they achieve is to give Israel an excuse to kill more arabs (which somehow makes Hamas look better, so I suppose that's why they keep doing it).

[i560.photobucket.com image 580x450]


8000 cases of attempted murder is acceptable?
 
2012-11-19 03:03:25 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: DROxINxTHExWIND: In Gaza, I think they're favorite James Brown song is "The Big Payback".

That or "Its a Man's World".

/Ok, I'm done now.


Meanwhile in the USA, the Republicans are loving "Funky President (People it's Bad)" while the rest of us groove to the beat of the "Funky Drummer".
 
2012-11-19 03:03:42 PM

PsiChick: No, he stopped the Cold War from turning into an all-out nuke-fest.


True, and maybe I was mistaken, but from drox comment you were implying the cold war ended ebcause people from the threat of possibly disobedient soldiers.

PsiChick: What ended the Cold War was the collapse of the Soviet Union; what gave the Soviet Union enough time to safely collapse was the public pressure.


Cold war was on it's way out beforet he collapse. It was still there, but nobbody was really afraid of nukes.

I don't think that had too much to do with public pressure.
 
2012-11-19 03:05:47 PM

wedun: Head_Shot: Aaaand I got this photo thumbnail in the sidebar. My nightmares may now begin.

[www.csmonitor.com image 600x400]

fear of grizzled old man face?


It just reminds me of Mola Ram....who scared the bejeesus out of me when I was a kid,

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-11-19 03:07:52 PM

liam76: PsiChick: No, he stopped the Cold War from turning into an all-out nuke-fest.

True, and maybe I was mistaken, but from drox comment you were implying the cold war ended ebcause people from the threat of possibly disobedient soldiers.

PsiChick: What ended the Cold War was the collapse of the Soviet Union; what gave the Soviet Union enough time to safely collapse was the public pressure.

Cold war was on it's way out beforet he collapse. It was still there, but nobbody was really afraid of nukes.

I don't think that had too much to do with public pressure.


Ah. Sorry, I was probably unclear. The Cold War's end was due to the SU collapsing, but if there hadn't been public pressure (remember all that activism in the sixties? A huge part of it was anti-nuke, anti-war activism), as well as the occasional disobedient soldier\person involved in big stuff, there wouldn't have bee enough time for that to happen. From that, we can see that occasionally public pressure functions as a safety valve of sorts, and Israel\Hamas needs pretty much a safety valve right now, far as I can see. It won't solve the root problems, but the immediate conflict will settle down.

/And FFS would both of them stop firing farking rockets at each other once it settles down.
 
2012-11-19 03:19:11 PM

liam76: So you have no defence for your glaring double standards, so you are going to pretend you are tired of hearing about them? Ok.


My "double standards" are the same old strawmen you keep trotting out over and over, each time conveniently "forgetting" that all the previous times I've explained to you that your portrayal old my words and opinions have very little in common with the reality.

It gets old.
 
2012-11-19 03:24:18 PM

Thorak: The facts are, as this article cited, many Israelis don't actually think of Palestinians as "people like us", so they're perfectly okay with "animals" getting killed.

In short; they're evil racist farks. Hamas are also evil racist farks. So in a fight between evil racist farks where it matters not one whit to me or my life which one wins, I have no reason whatsoever to support one or the other. I will simply condemn them both.


THIS
 
2012-11-19 03:31:09 PM

elchupacabra: 8000 cases of attempted murder is acceptable?


No it is not acceptable, but compared with over 1000 death children and all the other shiat that accompanies it, I'd say those 8000+ instances of attempted murder is an irrelevant detail.

Regardless of what you think of the rockets, if you think they're the start and cause of the problems (even though the hasbarahbots will happily make that claim), then you know little or nothing about this conflict. Those rockets aren't coming out of a vacuum.
 
2012-11-19 03:37:43 PM

sweetmelissa31: acanuck: It's OK, folks. He's just citing the Talmud and what's taught regarding ALL non-Jews. But, it's forbidden for you to know that.

Oh f you, he's just one douche bag. As you can see from the article, not everyone thinks that way although it's troubling that some in the Israeli government do. But you're just as bad because you lump all Jews together.


Take a lit/compreshension course, honey.

All inclusive "non" is not all inclusive "Jew". Labeling me, in an ad hominem attack, as bad when all I did was cite Jewish RULEZ as written - got nuthin' else but to misquote me through paraphrasing? Do they also teach you this in Synagogue?

Jews wrote the book, I didn't...I merely cited it, and I am prohibited from knowing its contents because it is PURE RACIST EVIL. The Talmud teaches all gentiles are like beasts, time and time again.

You should be most upset about their license to abuse gentile women, if you were truly not a racist and noble of cause, pure of heart
 
2012-11-19 03:47:44 PM

liam76: The grey are buildings. The brown is mostly open area. Have you never actually looked at a map of Gaza?


The brown open areas are fields and orchards, where adults work and children play.

There is widespread destruction in WB?

House demolition is a brutal tactic used by the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) in Jerusalem, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip against Palestinians and Israeli Arabs.

---

From October 2001 to December 2005, Israel has demolished 668 homes as punishment, leaving 4,182 people homeless.[34]
Israel has demolished 1,746 homes for alleged military purposes since B'Teselem started keeping statistics in this category in 2004.[35]
According to the United Nations, about 1,500 homes were demolished by the IDF in the Rafah area in the period 2000-2004.[11]

---

However, Israel, which is a party to the Fourth Geneva Convention, asserts that the terms of the Convention are not applicable to the Palestinian territories on the grounds that the territories do not constitute a state which is a party to the Fourth Geneva

---

According to a report by Amnesty International in 1999, house demolitions are usually done without prior warning and the home's inhabitants are given little time to evacuate.[23]

---

The Palestinian village Aqabah, located in the northeastern West Bank, is currently being threatened by demolition orders issued by the Israeli Civil Administration against the entire village.[40]


they go on trial andif found guilty they are punished. Which goes agaisnt your BS claim of at will rampages.

Yeah, they are punished. With a slap on the wrist.

The IDF and police are neither prepared nor willing to provide the necessary protection to Palestinians attacked by violent settlers. Law enforcement agencies display repeated failure to conduct proper investigations of these incidents. When convictions are made, Israeli citizens involved in such violent acts are handed light sentences.
 
2012-11-19 03:51:34 PM

The Larch: More to the point, they keep doing it because it makes Israel look bad.


You mean they're trolling Israel? Yeah, I can see that.

The folks who are funding and supplying the rockets don't seem to care much about the Palestinians; they have their own goals and motivations related to their power struggles in their own countries, and the economic blockades and military retribution by Israel against Gaza helps the actors supplying those rockets to achieve those goals.

I think few of the leaders on either side of that conflict care about the civilians.
 
2012-11-19 04:00:27 PM

Father_Jack: cant someone think of a solution to this never ending problem which would settle this question once and for all? some sort of "never again come up again" kind of solution, like, yknow, a last solution? that doesnt sound catchy tho. anyone help me out here?


March all the Jews into the sea?
 
2012-11-19 04:01:51 PM

Uncle Tractor: 8000 rocket attacks that have caused ...how many israeli deaths? 28?



I didn't say the Palestinians were smart.  I' ve never said that.
 
jvl
2012-11-19 04:12:10 PM
I like how the press quotes casualties only from the start of the current intensification.

Apparently the more-evenly divided casualties preceding the can of whoop-ass Israel opened don't count.
 
jvl
2012-11-19 04:13:37 PM

Lando Lincoln: It's good for taking more land from your enemies. Just ask the Israelis.


So you're basically saying the Palestinians are idiots who still haven't learned that attacking Israel never ends well for the attacker. I agree with that.
 
2012-11-19 04:39:01 PM

Uncle Tractor: The Larch: More to the point, they keep doing it because it makes Israel look bad.

You mean they're trolling Israel? Yeah, I can see that.

The folks who are funding and supplying the rockets don't seem to care much about the Palestinians; they have their own goals and motivations related to their power struggles in their own countries, and the economic blockades and military retribution by Israel against Gaza helps the actors supplying those rockets to achieve those goals.

I think few of the leaders on either side of that conflict care about the civilians.


One of the most important things to remember is that there are more than two sides to the conflict. It's not just Israelis vs Palestinians; nothing in life is ever as simple as that.

I don't have a magic mirror that lets me peer into the minds of men, but my cynical nature leads me to believe that more than a few of the Israeli hawks do not care one damned bit about the rockets, and look at war as a way to achieve personal goals that have nothing at all to do with the security of the Israeli people.

And, I can't peer into the minds of the folks in Iran who are arming and funding the Hamas militants, but my guess is that their reasons for supplying the rockets and training the militants that are goading Israel into armed retaliation are not based on altruistic concern for the Palestinian people.
 
2012-11-19 04:46:02 PM

Uncle Tractor: liam76: So you have no defence for your glaring double standards, so you are going to pretend you are tired of hearing about them? Ok.

My "double standards" are the same old strawmen you keep trotting out over and over, each time conveniently "forgetting" that all the previous times I've explained to you that your portrayal old my words and opinions have very little in common with the reality.

It gets old.


You just judged Israel a filled with enough hate to commit Genocide based on the words of one guy, but Gaza elects a group that has removing all the jews from Israel in its charter, and you are pretending they are the good guys.

Uncle Tractor: liam76: Uncle Tractor: Where in Gaza is not in the middle of a neighborhood filled with children and civilians? the civilians are kinda concentrated there, you know?

The grey are buildings. The brown is mostly open area. Have you never actually looked at a map of Gaza?

The brown open areas are fields and orchards, where adults work and children play.


Adults sometimes work. Children sometimes play. Aren't in the middle of neighborhoods where there are always children and civilians present.

Hamas doesn't attack from there because they value the life of their fighters more than the lives of their own civilians/children.

Uncle Tractor: Liam76: they go on trial and if found guilty they are punished. Which goes against your BS claim of at will rampages.

Yeah, they are punished.


So you admit it was BS that they can rampage at will, great.

Uncle Tractor: With a slap on the wrist.


Israel, doesn't punish people who target civilians enough - bad guys.

Palestine, celebrates people who target civilians - good guys.

And yet you claim to have no double standard.
 
2012-11-19 05:45:58 PM
ISRAEL IS A BUNCH OF NAZI POOPY HEAD RACISTS!!

FREE PALESTINE, BEST COUNTRY IN WORLD!!!
 
2012-11-19 05:58:10 PM

The First Four Katy Perry Albums: ISRAEL IS A BUNCH OF NAZI POOPY HEAD RACISTS!!

FREE PALESTINE, BEST COUNTRY IN WORLD!!!


Israelis are not Nazis. The're just your standard run-of-the-mill right-wing ultra-nationalists who are stuck in an outmoded 19th century view of the world, practicing apartheid and priming themselves for the final genocide of their enemies.

Not that this makes Palestinians good. They're bastards too.
 
2012-11-19 06:22:14 PM

liam76: You just judged Israel a filled with enough hate to commit Genocide based on the words of one guy, but Gaza elects a group that has removing all the jews from Israel in its charter, and you are pretending they are the good guys.


For someone who's so concerned about other people's double standards, your own are pretty glaring. You're condemning others for painting Israelis with too broad a brush, and then claiming all Palestinians hold the views and beliefs of Hamas at their core, every one, because Hamas was elected to their leadership for the first time a whole 5 years ago.

That's the double standard. Those of us who see condemnable acts on both sides are the ones being balanced, dude. You're projecting your own pro-Israeli, anti-Palestinian bias.
 
2012-11-19 06:22:39 PM

The Larch: The First Four Katy Perry Albums: ISRAEL IS A BUNCH OF NAZI POOPY HEAD RACISTS!!

FREE PALESTINE, BEST COUNTRY IN WORLD!!!

Israelis are not Nazis. The're just your standard run-of-the-mill right-wing ultra-nationalists who are stuck in an outmoded 19th century view of the world, practicing apartheid and priming themselves for the final genocide of their enemies.

Not that this makes Palestinians good. They're bastards too.



So vote Likud?
 
2012-11-19 06:31:21 PM

Magorn: Don't feel bad, she didn't either:
[bookriot.com image 300x215]


That took far longer than it should've.
 
2012-11-19 07:00:29 PM

The Larch: Israelis are not Nazis. The're just your standard run-of-the-mill right-wing ultra-nationalists who are stuck in an outmoded 19th century view of the world, practicing apartheid and priming themselves for the final genocide of their enemies.


1.bp.blogspot.com

They're not nazis, but the wear similar uniforms.
 
2012-11-19 07:02:37 PM

EyeballKid: Places like this are the reason we need atheist missionaries. I doubt everything could be solved over time by convincing people that their imaginary friend in the sky likely doesn't exist, much less give two shiats about where you park your sedan, but it couldn't hurt.


Well, it will make the Jews and Arabs stop shooting at each other for a while, because they'll be too busy shooting at the atheists.

It's a win-win situation, really.
 
2012-11-19 07:52:53 PM

Amos Quito: So vote Likud?


I have no idea why I have you noted as an antisemitic troll. I bet you're not trolling at all. I bet you actually believe the racist shiat you say.
 
2012-11-19 08:06:03 PM

wedun: The Larch: Israelis are not Nazis. The're just your standard run-of-the-mill right-wing ultra-nationalists who are stuck in an outmoded 19th century view of the world, practicing apartheid and priming themselves for the final genocide of their enemies.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 850x625]

They're not nazis, but the wear similar uniforms.


Hugo Boss would cockpunch you for saying that.
 
2012-11-19 08:12:01 PM

The Larch: Amos Quito: So vote Likud?

I have no idea why I have you noted as an antisemitic troll. I bet you're not trolling at all. I bet you actually believe the racist shiat you say.



Saying "so vote Likud" is racist???

You sound like a professional victim.

How's business?
 
2012-11-19 08:18:42 PM

wedun: They're not nazis, but the wear similar uniforms.


I honestly don't even understand what that means.

Look, Israel is in a really tough place. The Palestinians who are lobbing rockets are bastards who deserve to be in jail. The external actors who are supplying the militants with rockets are much worse bastards who deserve worse than jail.

And there's a crazy double standard for Israelis vs Palestinians. As a westerner, it's easy for me to complain about Israel being an apartheid state dominated by right-wing ultra-nationalists. But we have to admit Israel is not even on the same plane of existence as the terrible places that surround it. Obviously, any state that mixes its religion in with its politics is practicing a terrible alchemy, but there's absolutely no comparison between Israel's theocratic politicians with (say) Iran's theocratic politicians. Israel's theocrats are a bunch of vile farkwits from the 19th century, just a little more disgusting than the American crop of theocrats, who deserve to be voted out of power. Iran's theocrats are a bunch of first-class evil bastards right out of the middle ages, who deserve a lot worse than a thrashing with a ballot box.

And don't get me started on human rights. Israel is not a bastion of human rights by any means, but even the most downtrodden Palestinian has to recognize that life in Gaza is still preferable to life in a place like Syria. At least some effort is made to afford the rule of law, instead of just wantonly murdering political opponents.
 
2012-11-19 08:26:25 PM
I yet to hear any words of sympathy from the palestinians for the Israeli civilians who have been injured or killed.
 
2012-11-19 09:24:21 PM

phunkey_monkey: I yet to hear any words of sympathy from the palestinians for the Israeli civilians who have been injured or killed.


Which Palestinians have you talked to? Be specific. Name them.
 
2012-11-19 09:25:12 PM

Lando Lincoln: It's good for taking more land from your enemies. Just ask the Israelis.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 809x438]

About 30 more years and Palestine will be but a memory.


Funny, how the acquisition of that territory always seemed to coincide with the joint effort to obliterate Israel.

/History--learn some and appear less stupid on Fark.
 
2012-11-19 09:28:33 PM

Amos Quito: The Larch: Amos Quito: So vote Likud?

I have no idea why I have you noted as an antisemitic troll. I bet you're not trolling at all. I bet you actually believe the racist shiat you say.


Saying "so vote Likud" is racist???

You sound like a professional victim.

How's business?


I have no idea what you're even talking about. You imagine that I derive my livihood from... being a victim? How would that even work? What kind of messed up imaginary world do you even live in where you think "professional victim" is a thing? Who do you imagine I sell my victim services to? What value do you imagine my customers might find in it?
 
2012-11-19 10:19:49 PM
When two tribes go to war, a point is all that you can score.
 
2012-11-19 10:53:43 PM

acanuck: Jews wrote the book, I didn't...I merely cited it, and I am prohibited from knowing its contents because it is PURE RACIST EVIL. The Talmud teaches all gentiles are like beasts, time and time again.


Well, it's nice that you mixed one truthful statement into what was otherwise a stream of lies.
 
2012-11-20 01:11:12 AM
The Talmud translated into English, for reference.

And debunking sites for whatever bigoted lies acanuck is peddling (picked up from wikipedia) 1, 2, 3
 
2012-11-20 04:20:39 AM
Remember Constantinople.
 
2012-11-20 05:17:15 AM

liam76: And yet you claim to have no double standard.


Have fun playing with your strawman.
 
2012-11-20 07:19:06 AM
Far as I can figure out Israel was awarded some land. Palestine was the indigenous people on that land. It's the classic US vs. the natives. Sorry, but the natives lost and so will Palestine. When NATO recognizes your competitor, you're done. End of story. All the cries of it's not fair don't matter. You were conquered.

It's like some polite white guy moving in next to some uppity negro that thinks he owns the block 'cus he had a big ego and doesn't recognize change or power. The irrational and lower life form tribesman will fight you perpetually. You have to slit his throat, his wife's and his kid's. Without civilization enough to divorce yourself from untenable pride (ethnicity, religion, land, etc.) in the face of your superior, you have left your superior no option.

Now if you're Israel you recognize that a good fraction of the population will want to be civil about it. Incorporate everyone who recognizes your status genuinely; feed them; protect them; make them your own. Make the distinction clear that you join reality or you will be removed from it.
 
2012-11-20 07:33:57 AM

Uncle Tractor: liam76: Uncle Tractor: With a slap on the wrist.

Israel, doesn't punish people who target civilians enough - bad guys.

Palestine, celebrates people who target civilians - good guys.

And yet you claim to have no double standard

Have fun playing with your strawman.


Where is the strawman?
 
2012-11-20 07:36:23 AM

Frederf: Far as I can figure out Israel was awarded some land. Palestine was the indigenous people on that land. It's the classic US vs. the natives. Sorry, but the natives lost and so will Palestine. When NATO recognizes your competitor, you're done. End of story. All the cries of it's not fair don't matter. You were conquered.


No. They bought land.
 
2012-11-20 07:38:58 AM

liam76: Where is the strawman?


If you honestly don't know what I'm talking about, then there's nothing I can do to help you. I'm tired of giving you the same explanations over and over in thread after thread. Whether you don't *want* explanations that don't fit your preconceptions (and ignore them) or your brain simply can't grasp words and meanings that don't fit your preconceptions, I don't care.

Either way, you have issues with reality.
 
2012-11-20 07:55:57 AM

Uncle Tractor: Either way, you have issues with reality


When that comes from the guy who thinks Israel is bad because they don't punish those who target civilians enough but doesn't make a peep about palestenaians who celebrate people who target civilians, who pretends there is no place in Gaza that isn't in the middle of a neighborhood, who lies about settlers being able to kill at will, I take that as a compliment.
 
2012-11-20 12:21:44 PM

Watching_Epoxy_Cure: Funny, how the acquisition of that territory always seemed to coincide with the joint effort to obliterate Israel.

/History--learn some and appear less stupid on Fark.


Ah, yes. The Israelis were totally justified in taking more and more land from the Palestinians.

Step 1) Piss off Palestinians in a multitide of ways
Step 2) Take more of their land when they retaliate, because you get 2 billion dollars a year from the US to spend on defense, and they can't compete with that.
Step 3) Keep repeating steps 1 and 2 until Palestine no longer exists

It's a fine line the Israelis have to walk. Keep snatching land, but don't do it too fast, or you'll get too much heat on yourselves from outsiders. They're really good at it now, playing the victim and the oppressor at the same time.

The only question that remains is if Israel is going to be satisfied with just wiping out Palestine for their own, or if they'll continue expanding their borders. I don't think we'll have an answer to that question anytime soon. Maybe 50 years from now Israel will get it in their heads that God wants them to have sections of Egypt, and then the new land grab will be on.
 
2012-11-20 01:01:43 PM

Lando Lincoln: Watching_Epoxy_Cure: Funny, how the acquisition of that territory always seemed to coincide with the joint effort to obliterate Israel.

/History--learn some and appear less stupid on Fark.

Ah, yes. The Israelis were totally justified in taking more and more land from the Palestinians.

Step 1) Piss off Palestinians in a multitide of ways
Step 2) Take more of their land when they retaliate, because you get 2 billion dollars a year from the US to spend on defense, and they can't compete with that.
Step 3) Keep repeating steps 1 and 2 until Palestine no longer exists

It's a fine line the Israelis have to walk. Keep snatching land, but don't do it too fast, or you'll get too much heat on yourselves from outsiders. They're really good at it now, playing the victim and the oppressor at the same time.

The only question that remains is if Israel is going to be satisfied with just wiping out Palestine for their own, or if they'll continue expanding their borders. I don't think we'll have an answer to that question anytime soon. Maybe 50 years from now Israel will get it in their heads that God wants them to have sections of Egypt, and then the new land grab will be on.



www.globalsecurity.org

What SOME Zionists envision as Israel's "manifest destiny". 

Who can argue with G-d?
 
2012-11-20 04:59:09 PM

Lando Lincoln: The only question that remains is if Israel is going to be satisfied with just wiping out Palestine for their own, or if they'll continue expanding their borders. I don't think we'll have an answer to that question anytime soon. Maybe 50 years from now Israel will get it in their heads that God wants them to have sections of Egypt, and then the new land grab will be on.


Wonder no more:

"It's part of the promised land," Goldmintz said. "I remind Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu that the Likud's platform included both sides of the Jordan."

The only actual debate about Israel's borders should be whether or not to return the current territory referred to as Jordan to Israel in order to correct the injustice done my the British government in violation of the Paris Peace Treaty and League of Nations Authority...
 
2012-11-20 05:26:44 PM

Lando Lincoln: Watching_Epoxy_Cure: Funny, how the acquisition of that territory always seemed to coincide with the joint effort to obliterate Israel.

/History--learn some and appear less stupid on Fark.

Ah, yes. The Israelis were totally justified in taking more and more land from the Palestinians.

Step 1) Piss off Palestinians in a multitide of ways
Step 2) Take more of their land when they retaliate, because you get 2 billion dollars a year from the US to spend on defense, and they can't compete with that.
Step 3) Keep repeating steps 1 and 2 until Palestine no longer exists

It's a fine line the Israelis have to walk. Keep snatching land, but don't do it too fast, or you'll get too much heat on yourselves from outsiders. They're really good at it now, playing the victim and the oppressor at the same time.

The only question that remains is if Israel is going to be satisfied with just wiping out Palestine for their own, or if they'll continue expanding their borders. I don't think we'll have an answer to that question anytime soon. Maybe 50 years from now Israel will get it in their heads that God wants them to have sections of Egypt, and then the new land grab will be on.


More accusations of wiping out palestine. Sure doing a shiatty job as sixty plus years on they have a population growing faster than theirs and the standard of living beats some of their Arab neighbors.
 
2012-11-20 06:25:44 PM

Amos Quito: [www.globalsecurity.org image 400x341]

What SOME Zionists envision as Israel's "manifest destiny". 



Lol. A picture from a nutjob conspiracy theory site (Lol, "Planet X" and "Solar System shift" craziness). The page hosting the image copy that you hotlinked cites the claim as being from Osama Bin Laden and various conspiracy theory sites.

Lol, this is the stuff you take seriously. Watch out for that Planet X hurtling towards us, AQ, before it's too late! Bahahaha
 
2012-11-20 08:00:10 PM
It thins the population of young males, leaving more wimmins for the old dudes?

Efficiently allocates resources?

Promotes the development of technology?

This Tolstoy guy is a hack.
 
2012-11-20 10:15:06 PM

Isildur: Amos Quito: [www.globalsecurity.org image 400x341]

What SOME Zionists envision as Israel's "manifest destiny". 


Lol. A picture from a nutjob conspiracy theory site (Lol, "Planet X" and "Solar System shift" craziness). The page hosting the image copy that you hotlinked cites the claim as being from Osama Bin Laden and various conspiracy theory sites.

Lol, this is the stuff you take seriously. Watch out for that Planet X hurtling towards us, AQ, before it's too late! Bahahaha



Oh sure, attack the host of some image I pulled from a Google Image search, denying that many Zionist nutjobs envision this as the Israel "G-d intended".

Now do Wiki.

The history of expansionist Zionist occupation for the sake of "security" (lebensraum) belies your argument, Isildur.
 
2012-11-20 11:06:20 PM

liam76: More accusations of wiping out palestine. Sure doing a shiatty job as sixty plus years on they have a population growing faster than theirs and the standard of living beats some of their Arab neighbors.


You do understand that there's a difference between the Palestinians and the land that they're occupying, right? The Israelis aren't primarily concerned about wiping Palestinians off the Earth. They mostly just want their land.
 
2012-11-20 11:32:12 PM

Amos Quito: Now do Wiki.



Lol -- a Wikipedia article that mixes together various biblical descriptions of ancient Israel (a country that never extended to anything remotely like your "Planet X" site's map), description of land bequeathed to Abraham according to the Bible, and modern politics. That's your evidence?

For the extent you described, it cites the bible's Genesis Genesis 15:18-21, which says "In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates". Which... actually doesn't seem too inaccurate, considering who else is considered by religious folks to have descended from Abraham. Hint.

And for further maps, the Wikipedia article links... *drum roll*... the same globalsecurity page I linked, which was providing labeled examples of nutcase sites' claims.

All in all, this is too funny. Do you actually believe all the crazy stuff you throw around? You think there's some cabal of ZOMGzIonists plotting to take over almost the entire Middle East?

(Or do you think the specific content doesn't matter, and whatever crap you can try to throw at the wall and get to stick in public view for a while is to the greater good -- annoying facts be damned -- because you think your overall message is right?)
 
2012-11-20 11:48:58 PM

Lando Lincoln: liam76: More accusations of wiping out palestine. Sure doing a shiatty job as sixty plus years on they have a population growing faster than theirs and the standard of living beats some of their Arab neighbors.

You do understand that there's a difference between the Palestinians and the land that they're occupying, right? The Israelis aren't primarily concerned about wiping Palestinians off the Earth. They mostly just want their land.



So, most of a century since state of Israel's founding, why aren't they done with that, either?
Most Israelis just want the places where they already live to be safe. Their see-sawing back and forth between right and left wing is largely based on which party or party coalition is perceived as having a realistic plan for keeping the nation safe (with more force tending to be favored by the right wing parties, more negotiation favored by the left).
 
2012-11-21 08:18:45 AM

Lando Lincoln: liam76: More accusations of wiping out palestine. Sure doing a shiatty job as sixty plus years on they have a population growing faster than theirs and the standard of living beats some of their Arab neighbors.

You do understand that there's a difference between the Palestinians and the land that they're occupying, right? The Israelis aren't primarily concerned about wiping Palestinians off the Earth. They mostly just want their land.


If getting land is their primary concern why did they kick their people out of Gaza?

Why were they willing to give back Sinai peninsula?
 
2012-11-21 08:26:16 AM

Isildur: Amos Quito: Now do Wiki.


Lol -- a Wikipedia article that mixes together various biblical descriptions of ancient Israel (a country that never extended to anything remotely like your "Planet X" site's map), description of land bequeathed to Abraham according to the Bible, and modern politics. That's your evidence?

For the extent you described, it cites the bible's Genesis Genesis 15:18-21, which says "In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates". Which... actually doesn't seem too inaccurate, considering who else is considered by religious folks to have descended from Abraham. Hint.

And for further maps, the Wikipedia article links... *drum roll*... the same globalsecurity page I linked, which was providing labeled examples of nutcase sites' claims.

All in all, this is too funny. Do you actually believe all the crazy stuff you throw around? You think there's some cabal of ZOMGzIonists plotting to take over almost the entire Middle East?

(Or do you think the specific content doesn't matter, and whatever crap you can try to throw at the wall and get to stick in public view for a while is to the greater good -- annoying facts be damned -- because you think your overall message is right?)


This Amos you are talking about.

In dozens of these threads touching on all sorts of outrageous theories on Jews I have never once see him say he doesn't believe them. A lot of 'I never said that's but no 'I don't believe that'.
 
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