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(Yahoo)   So apparently the only reason Tel Aviv isn't littered with smoking craters is because the Israel-hating, secret Muslim president of the US made sure they hade the "Iron Dome" rocket intercept system   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 386
    More: Interesting, Iron Dome, Tel Aviv, Carl Levin, missile defense systems, domes, Senate Armed Services Committee, rockets, God Only Knows  
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17476 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Nov 2012 at 2:18 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-19 08:55:26 PM

tallguywithglasseson: Party Boy: I_C_Weener: Over 8000 rockets had been fired into Israel over the last 4 years

Huh?

(2008) 361 + (2009) 569 + (2010) 150 + (2011) 680 (rockets+mortars) + (2012) 1,540

I was told there would be no math.


That's not math, that's the Devil's Cypherin'
 
2012-11-19 08:56:55 PM
Fark dumbwads. Funding and development was done by Israel. Obama had absolutely nothing to do with this system. Another example of liberal stupidity and their groveling on behalf of their annointed one.
 
2012-11-19 09:01:31 PM

SuperNinjaToad: [rt.com image 370x277]
Iron Dome Defensive battery


[www.aerospaceweb.org image 550x400]

Quassam rockets


ID may kickbutt but it's not cost effective. You're using a $100 million integrated air defense network with $100,000 missile to intercept a $900 unguided rocket that a group of guys make in the back of a garage.

All Hezbollah/Hamas etc needs to do is keep firing these rockets and Israel will be bleed to financial ruins.


Will Israel be bankrupt before, or after, they level all of Gaza?
 
2012-11-19 09:08:39 PM

Dirtybird971: wow. That's pretty cool. So do we or don't we have the "star wars" defense system?


We don't. Star Wars was ballistic missile defense from SPACE. Anti-ballistic missiles have been around nearly as long as surface-to-air missiles. They're a lot more effective now, mainly because of better software, but they're nothing new.
 
2012-11-19 09:18:36 PM

legalgus: Fark dumbwads. Funding and development was done by Israel. Obama had absolutely nothing to do with this system. Another example of liberal stupidity and their groveling on behalf of their annointed one.


(。々°)
 
2012-11-19 09:34:07 PM

GAT_00: SuperNinjaToad: [rt.com image 370x277]
Iron Dome Defensive battery


[www.aerospaceweb.org image 550x400]

Quassam rockets


ID may kickbutt but it's not cost effective. You're using a $100 million integrated air defense network with $100,000 missile to intercept a $900 unguided rocket that a group of guys make in the back of a garage.

All Hezbollah/Hamas etc needs to do is keep firing these rockets and Israel will be bleed to financial ruins.

We've probably paid for the entire system, so they're actually bleeding us to financial ruin.


$3.1 billion in the most recent year. While that's not nothing, it's @ 0.1 percent of the U.S. federal budget. Gonna take a long time to bleed to death at that rate.
 
2012-11-19 09:40:05 PM

vygramul: BigNumber12: BigRightRear: His mother is as white as the driven snow. I love things like t-shirts that say " USA's first african-american president"


It would seem that they subscribe to the "One-drop Rule" so popular during the Slavery era.

[weknowmemes.com image 465x446]



Eh, I suppose it's how he self-identifies. Retracted.
 
2012-11-19 09:52:42 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Now here is a question for those who know how the defense works. Are they shooting them down over Israel? I'm just thinking that two falling rockets would lead to more damage. What happens when one misses?


I had the same question. From what I can tell, the idea is that two hunks of flaming metal >> one hunk of explodey metal, regardless of who it lands on.

As for the rest, I can speak more confidently to the physics/engineering argument than to the geopolitical argument. You're right, it's a matter of scale. There is nothing physically impossible about an absolutely flawless missile defense system that works the first time, the last time, and every time, and is always one generation ahead of the latest missiles. There's also nothing physically impossible about a Dyson sphere, which in some ways is different from putting a satellite in orbit only in terms of the scale. But I don't like our chances of doing it any time soon, and in the meantime there might be better ways to deal with the underlying problem of nukes.
 
2012-11-19 09:57:26 PM

legalgus: Fark dumbwads. Funding and development was done by Israel. Obama had absolutely nothing to do with this system. Another example of liberal stupidity and their groveling on behalf of their annointed one.


I'm relieved to hear that. The headline sounded like BS to begin with, and knowing Obama wasn't instrumental in wasting any of my money on this stupid P.O.S. for those assholes makes me feel better about having voted for him - something I feel just great about already! :D
 
2012-11-19 10:02:22 PM

sammyk: cman: Finally an article about Obama and Israel gets greened (unless I have missed one)

The left wing has herped and derped for days now about the evil right and their support of Israel while not saying a damn thing about Obama and his support of their actions. It will finally be nice to see the fark left take up the cause and bash the president

Nobody is going to get in an uproar over supplying defense weapons to a solid ally.


You have to keep in mind that when you go that far Right, you no longer have any idea what the Left is actually saying or doing anymore. You just have some sort of notion of everything you believe in turned upside down. It's sorta like Freudian projection bounced off a funhouse mirror.

Case in point: You hear people like Limbaugh and Coulter call the Left "evil", so you imagine that Left thinks the Right is "evil", too.
 
2012-11-19 10:12:19 PM

ciberido: Case in point: You hear people like Limbaugh and Coulter call the Left "evil", so you imagine that Left thinks the Right is "evil", too.



I see that you joined in 2004, yet this statement leads me to believe that you don't spend much time here on Fark.
 
2012-11-19 10:22:38 PM

Brubold: doubled99: So when all the Israel hater come out in threads from now on Obama will be the bad guy, too, right?
You guys love being on both sides of the fence.

Well this is the fringe left we're talking about. The same ones that hate groups like the Westboro cult here because they talk about hating gays but support fanatical Muslims who kill gays.


Another example of fantasizing about the imaginary Left.
 
2012-11-19 11:02:33 PM

legalgus: Fark dumbwads. Funding and development was done by Israel. Obama had absolutely nothing to do with this system. Another example of liberal stupidity and their groveling on behalf of their annointed one.



AHEM:

"The initial funding and development of the Iron Dome system was provided and undertaken by Israel.[20] This allowed for the deployment of the first two Iron Dome systems.[21] Subsequently, funding for an additional eight Iron Dome systems-along with funding for a supply of interception missiles-is currently being provided by the United States, with two of these additional systems having been delivered by 2012.[21] Funding for the production and deployment of these additional Iron Dome batteries and interceptor missiles was approved by the United States Congress, after being requested by President Obama in 2010.[22] In May 2010, the White House announced that U.S. President Barack Obama would seek $205 million from U.S. Congress in his 2011 budget, to spur the production and deployment of additional Iron Dome batteries.


So much for that, eh?

www.hackolog.com

Some of your rockets are belong to Iron Dome! 


/Suck it Gauza!
 
2012-11-20 12:30:52 AM
Something I really like about Fark is that left wing and right wing nuts can come together when it matters most. Thank you Fark.
 
2012-11-20 12:33:28 AM
AQ, you put so much work into your posts.
It's like watching a retard scrapbooking.
 
2012-11-20 12:34:10 AM
Boy, there sure is a lot of suction on Obama the Mulatto's manhood going on around here.

Butt then, what can reasonable people expect? Carl Levin as an honest, unbiased source capable of speaking facts? Guess he, and you never heard of Rafael Defense Systems, you know, based in israel? Radars by Israel based ELTA, software by mPrest Systems (Israel), ordnance by Rafael.

Plus, I don't suppose this short article caused you to read up on Iron Dome and Congressional funding and what Congressional funding means.

Hooks. Cumshaw. We'll offer you this in exchange for that.

Yeah, Obama ... he a real nice guy.
 
2012-11-20 12:34:53 AM
Wait, this can't be right, before the election Romney and the Conservative media were all about how Obama didn't care about Israel, was putting "daylight between the US and them, didn't meet with BiBi and went on The view instead... but-but-but.......
 
2012-11-20 12:41:55 AM

BigNumber12: ciberido: Case in point: You hear people like Limbaugh and Coulter call the Left "evil", so you imagine that Left thinks the Right is "evil", too.


I see that you joined in 2004, yet this statement leads me to believe that you don't spend much time here on Fark.


Well-played.  I'm not entirely sure that Fark really counts, however. It's hard to tell when people here are serious and when they're either trolling or deliberately exaggerating for the lulz.
 
2012-11-20 12:50:27 AM

Party Boy: Looks like theres a more indepth article on this. Someone ran the numbers, and there are inflated figures going around.

Dissecting IDF propaganda: The numbers behind the rocket attacks .


I don't believe the IDF claims for a minute, just like I don't believe much of what our own government spouts. But this guy? I'm not sure I believe that his numbers are real or that he is the disinterested third party he implies that he is.

FTFA "Phan Nguyen is a Palestine solidarity activist based in New York. "
 
2012-11-20 12:53:08 AM

eraser8: The US has always been in favor of theater missile defense. I don't know of any major organization or prominent politician who's argued against it.

What some people oppose is strategic missile defense.


I'm afraid I'm not clear on the difference, even after reading the Wikipedia article.  I gather the idea is that one is purely defensive while the other is not?
 
2012-11-20 01:08:00 AM

starsrift: On the plus side, if Hamas keeps firing more rockets, economy of scale insists that the price of the intercepting missiles will go down!
/ human life does not have a dollar value, no matter what the courts say


That's a noble sentiment, but as a practical matter, one MUST put some sort of value on human life. If you say "human life does not have a dollar value" you are effectively saying that one human life is worth an INFINITE amount of money.

And that, in turn, means that a medical treatment that would, say, cure diabetes were found, but cost a trillion dollars per person, "human life does not have a dollar value" would mean that we would be obligated to cure every diabetic at a trillion dollars per. Pretty soon we'd have beggared ourselves, and then when we get around to the patient who isn't diabetic but who has a heart condition, we won't have the $100 needed to buy him the medicine he needs to stay alive.

It's like triage on the battlefield. When you can't possibly save everybody, you're forced to pick and choose who gets saved and who dies. Even if you "refuse to decide" and either pick people at random or adopt a "first come, first served" policy, you've STILL chosen a selection process --- just not a very efficient one. An efficient selection process to determine who gets care and who is allowed to die may seem cold-blooded or heartless, but it saves lives.
 
2012-11-20 01:11:35 AM

Gdalescrboz: So liberals now hate Obama?


Yes. Because all liberals either love someone or hate him. There's never any in-between, and all liberals change their positions in synch like a school of fish.
 
2012-11-20 02:15:48 AM
Hamas firing rockets and demanding peace with Israel. If Hamas wants peace it would stop firing rockets. Hamas is taking a page from Syria. Saying one thing and doing something counter productive.

Read Israel cabinet member wanting to wipe Hamas out of Gaza. Mmmm -- not so much.

Missiles, mortars, ...etc, all cost money. Why don't Hamas use that money to help Gaza? Then, today I read Ireland supports Hamas peace. Ready to surrender Irish card.

Hoping for the best. Expecting the worst.
 
2012-11-20 07:32:19 AM

ciberido: eraser8: The US has always been in favor of theater missile defense. I don't know of any major organization or prominent politician who's argued against it.

What some people oppose is strategic missile defense.

I'm afraid I'm not clear on the difference, even after reading the Wikipedia article.  I gather the idea is that one is purely defensive while the other is not?


One shoots down short-range, conventional missiles. The other one shoots down intercontinental, nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles. Having the ability to shoot down ICBMs would give a nuclear power a first-strike capability, which is considered destabilizing.
 
2012-11-20 07:45:22 AM
Jerusalem is Islam's third holiestest site!

let's fire rockets at it!
 
2012-11-20 08:50:14 AM
You'd think the Israelis would see the irony in their actions. Walling ethnic groups into ghettos, blaming them for all of their problems, advocating their annihilation, using chemical weapons on civilians, claiming that the Israelis have some special world destiny....
 
2012-11-20 09:26:16 AM

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: seadoo2006: Deal with it. The blacks of America and the Native Americans went through a similar ordeal and you don't see them getting all uppity over starting a new nation in Guam or Puerto Rico or the Pacific atolls ... I mean, guess what, a little religious tolerance goes a long way. If you want to have a country, born of conflicted lands, and then say, "this is for Jews only go away Arabs!", well, eat the words you say and accept that people are going to be pretty pissed that you took them.

You need to look up the history of the African country of Liberia: Link


Ah, the good ol' Liberia argument. Yes, so a bunch of white men, after conquering and dividing Africa, decided to set aside a small piece of shiatty land so they could send all the slaves that were freed back to Africa.

As if saying to a bunch of ex-slaves, sorry guys, we know we kidnapped all of you and brought you 2000 miles from your homes and then systematically destroyed the very nations you once had, well, now that we can't own your asses, we're kicking you out of America and sending you back to a "country" we founded, just for you black people.

We're even now, right? Please? Oh, please don't be angry with us ...
 
2012-11-20 11:08:51 AM
You mean a system developed and advocated by Reagan that liberals spent decades screaming against?
 
2012-11-20 11:09:24 AM

ciberido: BigNumber12: ciberido: Case in point: You hear people like Limbaugh and Coulter call the Left "evil", so you imagine that Left thinks the Right is "evil", too.


I see that you joined in 2004, yet this statement leads me to believe that you don't spend much time here on Fark.

Well-played.  I'm not entirely sure that Fark really counts, however. It's hard to tell when people here are serious and when they're either trolling or deliberately exaggerating for the lulz.



I struggle with it. I'm a serious, engineery sort of guy, so I usually look for people to be sincere first and foremost, actually wanting to debate ideas. But my detector is getting better.

I do think that's one of the more common criticisms of the current Republican party, though - the women's-rights-denying, Grandma's-Medicare-snatching, factory-shuttering, job-outsourcing, Immigrant-frightening, minority-hating evil Republican. And I'll even admit that there are a fair number of people on the right whose rhetoric and actions could justly be described as evil.

A reasonable person, however, recognizes that the Republican Party certainly does not have a monopoly on hate, ignorance, bigotry, and evil - and that the people who most loudly proclaim that it does are fantastic, if depressing, case studies in confirmation bias and politics-as-a-team-sport.
 
2012-11-20 12:21:53 PM

Tommy Moo: The Israeli policy of "Seven eyes for an eye, seven teeth for a tooth" is immoral and the United States is complicit with it.



The strategy of modern war is subject to fads and trends just like anything else. In all the newest textbooks, say everything this side of Sun Tzu, you do not strike back with proportionate force. That just creates a protracted battle.

If anything, Israel is doing it wrong. Go in there and level about a quarter of Gaza, then say "this is horrible, this should never happen again, let's talk peace now, ok?"
 
2012-11-20 04:40:28 PM

lordaction: You mean a system developed and advocated by Reagan that liberals spent decades screaming against?


No. We're talking about Israel's Iron Dome system.
 
2012-11-20 04:52:56 PM

vygramul: lordaction: You mean a system developed and advocated by Reagan that liberals spent decades screaming against?

No. We're talking about Israel's Iron Dome system.


Which was developed from the Star Wars system that Reagan pushed. It is a direct result of his effort.
 
2012-11-20 05:13:09 PM

lordaction: vygramul: lordaction: You mean a system developed and advocated by Reagan that liberals spent decades screaming against?

No. We're talking about Israel's Iron Dome system.

Which was developed from the Star Wars system that Reagan pushed. It is a direct result of his effort.


False. Iron Dome was developed separately. It's a nice talking point I'm sure you're eager to believe, but it's simply an unsupported assertion. Even Patriot isn't the direct result of SDI, and it even uses some of the same interceptor technology. The US was intercepting missiles with missiles in the '60s, and any link of a tactical system to the goals and entirely different problems than the strategic threat posed by ICBMs is either ignorant or disingenuous.
 
2012-11-20 07:43:28 PM

mbillips: ciberido: eraser8: The US has always been in favor of theater missile defense. I don't know of any major organization or prominent politician who's argued against it.

What some people oppose is strategic missile defense.

I'm afraid I'm not clear on the difference, even after reading the Wikipedia article.  I gather the idea is that one is purely defensive while the other is not?

One shoots down short-range, conventional missiles. The other one shoots down intercontinental, nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles. Having the ability to shoot down ICBMs would give a nuclear power a first-strike capability, which is considered destabilizing.


Thanks.
 
2012-11-20 08:00:18 PM
In all fairness, Israel DID pay for it....think of it more as flipping a house. Obama got 70 mil approved for the purchase, and then re-sold it for a profit. A communist did a business deal? Now THAT is impressive.
 
2012-11-20 08:14:37 PM

ciberido: mbillips: ciberido: eraser8: The US has always been in favor of theater missile defense. I don't know of any major organization or prominent politician who's argued against it.

What some people oppose is strategic missile defense.

I'm afraid I'm not clear on the difference, even after reading the Wikipedia article.  I gather the idea is that one is purely defensive while the other is not?

One shoots down short-range, conventional missiles. The other one shoots down intercontinental, nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles. Having the ability to shoot down ICBMs would give a nuclear power a first-strike capability, which is considered destabilizing.

Thanks.


Unfortunately, he's wrong about the first-strike capability. But the real problem with crediting it to Reagan is that the development programs pre-existed him. SDI initiated some programs but it also subsumed a lot of existing programs, including terminal ballistic missile defense - the feature for which Patriot PAC-3 is most notable. But Iron Dome followed a different development track and is effectively completely unrelated.
 
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