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(Yahoo)   So apparently the only reason Tel Aviv isn't littered with smoking craters is because the Israel-hating, secret Muslim president of the US made sure they hade the "Iron Dome" rocket intercept system   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 386
    More: Interesting, Iron Dome, Tel Aviv, Carl Levin, missile defense systems, domes, Senate Armed Services Committee, rockets, God Only Knows  
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17504 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Nov 2012 at 2:18 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-19 04:42:17 PM

I_C_Weener: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Party Boy: I_C_Weener: Corrected it in the other thread.

Great. From all the attention I'm getting, Stealth Hippopotamus must really want to give you an earful.

why not! Lets see if he can answer a direct question: Is Israel justified in trying to stop these attacks, if not how many missile need be fired before they are?


Yes.  1.


I agree- Israel would be perfectly justified in trying to stop these attacks.

However, is Israel justified in retaliating against attacks?
No.
Are Palestinians, for that matter?
Equally, no.
Is Israel attacking and then justifying retaliatory action as defence against Palestinian retaliatory action?
Yes.
 
2012-11-19 04:42:39 PM
The rule of law is alive and well in Hamas run Gaza

Link
 
2012-11-19 04:42:58 PM

ocschwar: Pogroms in Morrocco started in 1892. The option of getting the fark out of there only opened in 1948.

But do parade your ignorance some more.


The real violence towards Moroccan Jews didn't start until the Arab-Israel conflict. That's when the Oujda and Jerada pogroms became very violent and catalyzed the Zionist emigration movement back to Israel. Until then, most Jews that fled the country came the the USA, so, as I said, really, up until the start of WW2, there were many countries that were Jew-friendly they could've left to. After WW2 ended, there were also many countries that they could've moved to.

So, sorry, I don't buy that Israel was the ONLY post-1948 place Jews could've gone to avoid conflict. That simply is not true. Hell, half of western Europe became very friendly after 1945 as a "we're sorry for the Nazis" effort. Granted, that half of Europe was blown to smitherines, but still, it's not an active warzone anymore.
 
2012-11-19 04:43:18 PM
Is Israel attacking and then justifying retaliatory action as defence against Palestinian retaliatory action?


According to Hamas's own statements, their rockets are retaliating against Israel's existence, nothing more.
 
2012-11-19 04:44:16 PM

vygramul: I'd take that bet. In a heartbeat. And give you odds.


i645.photobucket.com
daaaaaaaaaaaaamn
 
2012-11-19 04:44:28 PM

hasty ambush: Antimatter: hasty ambush: I blame Reagan and others for failing to listen to progressives who said missile diefense would never work 

[www.mom4freedom.com image 640x572]

Wake me when IDF shoots down a ICBM traveling a few times the speed of sound.

Because that's what Reagan was promoting. Iron dome is a local areas rocket protection for non ICBMs. It's very effective, and no one ever said such things wouldn't work.

"Iron Dome" missile defense system is an outgrowth of the U.S. Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI)


Yeah - no. It's an outgrowth of SDI in the same way that the F-16 is an outgrowth of the Model-T.
 
2012-11-19 04:45:26 PM
The real violence towards Moroccan Jewsdidn't start until the Arab-Israel conflict.

Bullshiat. Jews in the Arab World were subject to casual violence continually, for centuries.

That's when the Oujda and Jerada pogroms became very violent

Those pogroms pale in comparison to the pogroms of 1892.

THe difference is that after Oujda and Jerada, Moroccon Jews had a way to get the fark out of that Godforsaken shiathole.
 
2012-11-19 04:45:56 PM

badaboom: My point still remains, they moved TO A WARZONE ... you get what you get. If you're a refugee, you might think long and hard about moving to one of the other 190+ countries in this world that isn't actively trying to kill Jews rather than moving to a country that has been in a perpetual war for the last 65 years ...


The old "she was asking for it" rape excuse...



Except in this case, it would be like that same girl moving into a half-way house for registered sex offenders, who were there after lengthy stints in prison for rape.
 
2012-11-19 04:46:04 PM

I_C_Weener: vygramul: RanDomino: Since no one's posted it in this thread yet

And that's what kills me about "it's Palestinian land" arguments. It's arbitrary to pick whether it was "originally" Israel's, Palestine's, etc. And tends to be indicative of whose bias the arguer is adopting.


I'm in favor of giving it back to Rome.  They won it fair and square.


The funny thing is that Italians like to think of themselves as Romans, when they're as Roman as much as the French are Gauls.
 
2012-11-19 04:47:29 PM
Until then, most Jews that fled the country came the the USA,

In case you didn't notice, the USA had no duty to offer Jews entry.

And has no duty.

And for a significant period of time, the USA did not, in fact, offer entry.

The main destination for Moroccan Jews besides Israel, by the way, was France. Heard the news there, lately?
The French Jewish community is also packing their suitcases.
 
2012-11-19 04:48:00 PM
Meanwhile, the US is making great progress on the drugwar.
 
2012-11-19 04:48:59 PM

Antimatter: hasty ambush: Antimatter: hasty ambush: I blame Reagan and others for failing to listen to progressives who said missile diefense would never work 

[www.mom4freedom.com image 640x572]

Wake me when IDF shoots down a ICBM traveling a few times the speed of sound.

Because that's what Reagan was promoting. Iron dome is a local areas rocket protection for non ICBMs. It's very effective, and no one ever said such things wouldn't work.

"Iron Dome" missile defense system is an outgrowth of the U.S. Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI)

No it's not, it's an outgrowth of the patriot missile system, which was not covered by SDI, thankfully.


Some SDI technology was used by Patriot missile systems in the 1991 Persian Gulf war to defend against Iraqi Scud missile attack
 
2012-11-19 04:53:07 PM

ocschwar: The real violence towards Moroccan Jewsdidn't start until the Arab-Israel conflict.

Bullshiat. Jews in the Arab World were subject to casual violence continually, for centuries.

That's when the Oujda and Jerada pogroms became very violent

Those pogroms pale in comparison to the pogroms of 1892.

THe difference is that after Oujda and Jerada, Moroccon Jews had a way to get the fark out of that Godforsaken shiathole.


Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly happened in 1892 in Morocco since my world history knowledge and even Googling has come up with nothing?
 
2012-11-19 04:55:16 PM

Party Boy: This is going to be it for me.


So this is you're best shot? Lets see what you got....


Party Boy: You were (incorrectly) angry at the Palestinians in that thread for claiming all of Jerusalem. You keep dodging an effort to show similar anger at the israelis for it. I corrected you. Didn't matter, i got this.


No one no where will ever try to debate that angry is a synonym for incorrect. Well, I am on Fark so there may be someone. But they should be laughed at.

Not even a single exclamation mark was used. I would demand an apology for your slander (calling me angry) but I really isn't that big of a deal to me. With my luck you would turn this into another fresh debate for you to dodge. Let's just go ahead and admit you mixed me up with someone else, it happens. I forgive you.

Party Boy: Frankly, I find you unbalanced in your positions. You have a problem the guy who corrected the figures? Take it up with the other guy who was wrong. You have a problem with the palestinians for wanting all of Jerusalem? Lets see your dislike when its Likud doing that.


I am unbalanced in my position. Never said otherwise. I think Israel is in the right here. I don't give equal weight to anyone that would fire hundreds and thousands of rockets on a continuous basis. I think that a peace deal could be worked out with Israel. If everyone would leave them alone I bet they would leave everyone else alone. I'm not happy I'm right. I wish I was wrong but the fact that we are having the exact same discussion 5 years later just adds to the evidence of just how right I was. It's like Ground Hog Day. Thank you for provide that link. I was right then, I much to may sadness I am right again.

Party Boy: You aren;t going to do that. You are going to pivot to another point.


HAHAHA it's like you're auditioning for Dancing with the Stars! I'm pivoting! I've asked you one simple question over and over again. And you've yet to even try to answer it.

Party Boy: I'm done and it can be the last word on this.


Good night my friend. Put this one on your spreadsheet as a complete and total loss. Take care
 
2012-11-19 04:56:15 PM

hasty ambush: Antimatter: hasty ambush: Antimatter: hasty ambush: I blame Reagan and others for failing to listen to progressives who said missile diefense would never work 

[www.mom4freedom.com image 640x572]

Wake me when IDF shoots down a ICBM traveling a few times the speed of sound.

Because that's what Reagan was promoting. Iron dome is a local areas rocket protection for non ICBMs. It's very effective, and no one ever said such things wouldn't work.

"Iron Dome" missile defense system is an outgrowth of the U.S. Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI)

No it's not, it's an outgrowth of the patriot missile system, which was not covered by SDI, thankfully.

Some SDI technology was used by Patriot missile systems in the 1991 Persian Gulf war to defend against Iraqi Scud missile attack


They intercepted two things during the Gulf War: Jack and Squat.

This connection to SDI is circular. SDI took advantage of some tests that were conducted by other systems, like Aegis (as early as 1965), and to credit SDI is a complete canard. BMD pre-dates SDI, SDI did little to improve the technology outside those development tracks, and to credit SDI for something someone else was working on anyway is just the height of ignorance.
 
2012-11-19 04:58:55 PM

hasty ambush: Antimatter: hasty ambush: Antimatter: hasty ambush: I blame Reagan and others for failing to listen to progressives who said missile diefense would never work 

[www.mom4freedom.com image 640x572]

Wake me when IDF shoots down a ICBM traveling a few times the speed of sound.

Because that's what Reagan was promoting. Iron dome is a local areas rocket protection for non ICBMs. It's very effective, and no one ever said such things wouldn't work.

"Iron Dome" missile defense system is an outgrowth of the U.S. Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI)

No it's not, it's an outgrowth of the patriot missile system, which was not covered by SDI, thankfully.

Some SDI technology was used by Patriot missile systems in the 1991 Persian Gulf war to defend against Iraqi Scud missile attack


Got anything more precise then that? That's like saying some JDAM technology is used in my car's navigation.
 
2012-11-19 04:59:19 PM
Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly happened in 1892 in Morocco since my world history knowledge and even Googling has come up with nothing?


You're right. It was the Fez massacre of 1912. 1892 was when Iran got its Jew hate on in Shiraz. There were a lot of these, and it's hard to keep them straight.

And this was the day to day environment when there weren't massacres going on:

"This edict of emancipation was confirmed by Mohammed IV's son and successor, Moulay Hasan I, on his accession to the throne 1873 and again on September 18, 1880, after the Conference of Madrid. Such edicts and promises of a similar nature made from time to time to the Alliance Israélite Universelle, even if they are seriously intended, are, however, absolutely meaningless, since they are not executed by local magistrates, and if they were they would reignite old, deeply rooted hatreds of the Jewish population. Thus, for example, the sultan Sulaiman (1795-1822) decreed that the Jews of Fez might wear shoes; but so many Jews were killed in the streets of that city as a result of the edict that they themselves asked the sultan to repeal it. According to a statistical report of the Alliance Israélite Universelle, for the years 1864-80 no less than 307 Jews were murdered in the city and district of Morocco, which crimes, although brought to the attention of the magistracy upon every occasion, remained unpunished.[33]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Morocco#Modern_ti m es
 
2012-11-19 05:00:24 PM
I heard Rick Blaine's grandpa stole a cafe and bar establishment from a Morrocan jew in 1903. 
 
2012-11-19 05:01:44 PM
ocschwar
According to Hamas's own statements, their rockets are retaliating against Israel's existence, nothing more.

Wait, I think I've figured it out. Israel-supporters are people who lack the ability to doubt what anyone says. Therefore they believe Hamas when they say they want to destroy Israel, regardless of plausibility or human nature, and they believe IDF spokesmen when they say Israel doesn't target civilians, regardless of the fact that if you target a building where there are civilians (regardless of whoever else is in it) then you have in fact targeted civilians.

How can we help these people understand that sometimes people intentionally say things that aren't true?


vygramul
I'd take that bet. In a heartbeat. And give you odds.

Sounds good. Should there be more stringent criteria than "Within two years Palestinian rockets will feature GPS and some kind of anti-anti-missile countermeasures"? That would technically let me claim victory if even a single one does. But I don't think the majority ever will (it would take more skill and more parts to smuggle), just enough to be significant. Maybe 25%? Or maybe a different criterion, like exposé articles in mainstream news sites like Wired or the New York Times?
 
2012-11-19 05:03:54 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: dv-ous: doglover: Magorn: Now someday I'm going have to write a humor novel about the end of the world where ALL the competing doomsday scenarios from all the worlds's religions and myths come true setting off an absolute logistical nightmare...

American Gods called, Neil Gaiman would like to remind you he's already written this book.

I am now $4 poorer. (Kindle store.) Screw you. :-D

May as well get 'Anansi Boys' to read when you're finished.


I love Fark threads. I get to write up a list of books to eventually download on my Kindle.. that I don't own...yet. *sigh*
 
2012-11-19 05:04:34 PM

I_C_Weener: I heard Rick Blaine's grandpa stole a cafe and bar establishment from a Morrocan jew in 1903.


He won it in a bet doing street magic
 
2012-11-19 05:04:46 PM
Therefore they believe Hamas when they say they want to destroy Israel,

Therefore when Hamas says that, a reasonable person will conclude that Hamas will continue to fire rockets whenever they can, regardless of Israel's policies.
 
2012-11-19 05:06:39 PM
People do realize the election was over a couple weeks ago, right?
 
2012-11-19 05:09:36 PM

Party Boy: This is going to be it for me.


You are outstandingly pathetic with your derpflections today. "here here! look at this five year old thread and I'll pretend my case file on you and what you said half a decade ago somehow supersedes the questions I refuse to answer."
 
2012-11-19 05:10:03 PM

ocschwar: Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly happened in 1892 in Morocco since my world history knowledge and even Googling has come up with nothing?


You're right. It was the Fez massacre of 1912. 1892 was when Iran got its Jew hate on in Shiraz. There were a lot of these, and it's hard to keep them straight.

And this was the day to day environment when there weren't massacres going on:

"This edict of emancipation was confirmed by Mohammed IV's son and successor, Moulay Hasan I, on his accession to the throne 1873 and again on September 18, 1880, after the Conference of Madrid. Such edicts and promises of a similar nature made from time to time to the Alliance Israélite Universelle, even if they are seriously intended, are, however, absolutely meaningless, since they are not executed by local magistrates, and if they were they would reignite old, deeply rooted hatreds of the Jewish population. Thus, for example, the sultan Sulaiman (1795-1822) decreed that the Jews of Fez might wear shoes; but so many Jews were killed in the streets of that city as a result of the edict that they themselves asked the sultan to repeal it. According to a statistical report of the Alliance Israélite Universelle, for the years 1864-80 no less than 307 Jews were murdered in the city and district of Morocco, which crimes, although brought to the attention of the magistracy upon every occasion, remained unpunished.[33]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Morocco#Modern_ti m es


Well, admittedly by pre-WW2 history is weak, but all I was trying to say is that that boy's parents emigrated from Morocco in a post-Arab-Israeli-War world. The 1948 Arab-Israeli war did nothing but take all the Islamic nations, turn their hatred of Jews up to 11 and start the ball rolling for a massive cluster fark in the Middle East.

While it's sad and tragic that young people, old people, and everyone is involved in this stupid 65-year battle, I can't help but feel that the Israelis share a large burden on the reason the conflict still exists. You cannot say to one religious people that it's okay for them to lay claim to a land that has been entrenched in war for millennia ... the UN and Britain picked a winner in 1948, for better or worse, and the last 65 years have been the fall out from that decision.

As I was joking up the thread, there's a serious part of me that says we should threaten to remove ALL claims on the land by turning it into a smoldering pile of radioactive rubble if these three groups cannot get along, but I'm also not that ignorant to know that the second after the bomb is dropped, you'll have everyone fighting over who's glowing green rock is who's.

Serious point: I don't give a flying fark. I'm Catholic, and my religion lays claim to a significant portion of the 'holy land', but honestly, the reason why a multi-ethnic, multi-religious form of government couldn't effectively govern that region is beyond me. I'll never understand it. It seems so easy to me not to care one god damned bit what religion someone else is. But, expecting religious tolerance from a group of people that have been fighting for 6000 years? Yeah, fuggitabout it. Blow it up. If you can't get along, nobody gets it.
 
2012-11-19 05:11:25 PM

ocschwar: Is Israel attacking and then justifying retaliatory action as defence against Palestinian retaliatory action?


According to Hamas's own statements, their rockets are retaliating against Israel's existence, nothing more.


I remember the Northern Irish Republican militants used to use similar logic to defend 'anti-British' action.
The British authorities, had enough sense not to send air-strikes against entire communities though. Instead, the British increasingly relied on intelligence-work rather than military action, and- though it took a couple of decades- ultimately, it worked.

Israel needs to stop providing examples for Hamas to use in justifying their own actions to the Palestinian people. Essentially, if Israel is genuine about defence and ultimately peace, then it needs to take the higher moral ground and cease provocation/retaliation. Otherwise its actions can only be seen as serving a strategy of dominance if not long-term conquest.
 
2012-11-19 05:15:34 PM

snuff3r: The article i read before this was an interview with a woman who lost four children all under eight in a strike against [whothefarkcares.jpg]. As a person who's lost a child and knows that pain well, a giant mother-farking fark-you-up-the-ass for every person involved in the death of an innocent child, whatever side.

You're both as bad as each other. Enjoy your hells. Especially you, Israel. Evil assholes.

/rage
//drunk


i'm sorry for your loss, and sympathy to all who have suffered loss due to the evil that men do. XXXOOO
 
2012-11-19 05:15:49 PM

Well, admittedly by pre-WW2 history is weak, but all I was trying to say is that that boy's parents emigrated from Morocco in a post-Arab-Israeli-War world. The 1948 Arab-Israeli war did nothing but take all the Islamic nations, turn their hatred of Jews up to 11 and start the ball rolling for a massive cluster fark in the Middle East.


Dude, these were people who used to have to walk barefoot in Morocco's alleys, right by the open sewers, becuase only Muslims could wear shoes.

It sucks to be hated, but it's so much worse to be despised.

Serious point: I don't give a flying fark. I'm Catholic

Oh, are you? Then look at your own church's role in all this. You're yammering on and on about why Sderot's Moroccan refugees didn't go elsewhere, well, guess what: your church had a major role in keeping the doors to Jewish emigration firmly shut throughout the 20th Century. Emigration to the US was not an option until 1965, for example.
 
2012-11-19 05:23:05 PM
"Developed in 2007 as part of a $30 billion 10-year military-aid agreement signed by the Bush administration ..."



So I guess they stop blaming Bush when it fits their narrative. Priceless.
 
2012-11-19 05:23:29 PM

RanDomino: Unless you're a complete farking moron, you'll find out why he's punching you.


Ok, he's punching you because you took his land, ruined his farm, and opressed his people and you have no intention of stopping. When he asks you to stop you say "I'm not going to stop because you are punching me"
 
2012-11-19 05:28:34 PM

RanDomino: vygramul
I'd take that bet. In a heartbeat. And give you odds.

Sounds good. Should there be more stringent criteria than "Within two years Palestinian rockets will feature GPS and some kind of anti-anti-missile countermeasures"? That would technically let me claim victory if even a single one does. But I don't think the majority ever will (it would take more skill and more parts to smuggle), just enough to be significant. Maybe 25%? Or maybe a different criterion, like exposé articles in mainstream news sites like Wired or the New York Times?


This isn't about whether their capabilities will improve, it's about whether they will matter as far as Iron Dome is considered. Iron Dome is not going to be defeated by GPS-guidance or anything the Palestinians are going to be able to deploy. Making their missiles more accurate won't matter to Iron Dome. (And they probably, generally, don't want accuracy. But that's another discussion.)
 
2012-11-19 05:30:32 PM

ocschwar: Oh, are you? Then look at your own church's role in all this. You're yammering on and on about why Sderot's Moroccan refugees didn't go elsewhere, well, guess what: your church had a major role in keeping the doors to Jewish emigration firmly shut throughout the 20th Century. Emigration to the US was not an option until 1965, for example.


I have no problem admitting that, hell, the WASP-yness of this country has only elected one Catholic President ... and then prompty shot him.

But see, that's where I differ ... I don't give one flying iota what religion you are. My uncle married a Jew back in the 1970s when they secretly wed because it was such a faux pas to do so. My SO comes from a pretty Protestant family. But that's the thing ... who the fark cares? I don't. I live my life without thinking of religion save for one hour every Sunday because that's the religion I was born into.

I'm an Irish Catholic ... 100+ years ago, there were NINA signs in many business windows ... Northern Irish Protestants had been trying to press their religion onto southern Irish Catholics. Hell, the IRA was blowing up most of Ireland for the better part of the last 40 years.

Religion is the basis of conflict and in that regard, fark religion. Thus, why I said, blow the whole of Israeli to smitherines ... if you cannot get along, you don't get to be there. Go somewhere else or live to fight another day on your radioactive wasteland. Hell, 30 years ago, I would've said the same thing about Dublin and Belfast ... wipe them both clean off the map, then wipe out the countryside. If you can't get along, don't expect to live there for very long.

Religious conflict is retarded ...
 
2012-11-19 05:30:43 PM

groovykindahate: I agree- Israel would be perfectly justified in trying to stop these attacks.

However, is Israel justified in retaliating against attacks?
No.
Are Palestinians, for that matter?
Equally, no.
Is Israel attacking and then justifying retaliatory action as defence against Palestinian retaliatory action?
Yes.



That's a fine hair you are splitting. Israel says they are targeting the locations where the missiles are coming from. If you trust Israel you believe them, if you dont you dont. Given the fact these locations are easy to move and are in public places it is hard to prove definitely. And yes they targeted Hamas leaders, what good is it to take out missile locations if the people having them built keep on? It's been mentioned earlier, Israel can't win that kind of fight. It takes far less to make a low rent missile launcher than it does to train a fighter pilot, buy him a plane, fuel it up and load it with a weapon. And when you fire a cruse missile into an apartment building you're going to kill a few people you didn't need to. But what is the alternative? Just sit there and take it?
It would be nice for the people to rise up and end the missile themselves. But that would mean death or worse if they get caught. It really sucks to be a Palestinian. I wish Egypt or Syria would take them in. I doubt that anyone would give up the chance to live in peace somewhere else than live there. I love my home as I'm sure they do to but I have to think they would jump at the chance to get the hell out of there. Yeah yeah I know some believe that Egypt, Syria and Iran are using the people but we dont know that. And I would like to think that isn't true

It's exactly as I said before we've come to a point that we need to pick sides. Sometimes you cant broker a peace.

And as I've said before, I hope I'm wrong.
 
2012-11-19 05:32:55 PM

Antimatter: hasty ambush: Antimatter: hasty ambush: Antimatter: hasty ambush: I blame Reagan and others for failing to listen to progressives who said missile diefense would never work 

[www.mom4freedom.com image 640x572]

Wake me when IDF shoots down a ICBM traveling a few times the speed of sound.

Because that's what Reagan was promoting. Iron dome is a local areas rocket protection for non ICBMs. It's very effective, and no one ever said such things wouldn't work.

"Iron Dome" missile defense system is an outgrowth of the U.S. Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI)

No it's not, it's an outgrowth of the patriot missile system, which was not covered by SDI, thankfully.

Some SDI technology was used by Patriot missile systems in the 1991 Persian Gulf war to defend against Iraqi Scud missile attack

Got anything more precise then that? That's like saying some JDAM technology is used in my car's navigation.



The Patriot PAC-3 uses the Extended Range Interceptor (ERINT) technology from the SDIs
TMD system.
 
2012-11-19 05:33:19 PM
Thread is tl;dr so...

I assume that it's been pointed out already that Iron Dome got it start during the George Bush administration, not Obama's:

In February 2007, Defense Minister Amir Peretz selected Iron Dome as Israel's defensive solution to this short-range rocket threat. Since then, the US$210 million system has been developed by Rafael Advanced Defense Systems working jointly with the Israel Defense Forces.

Subsequent US investment of course had ulterior motives...

With the United States on track to greatly increase funding for Iron Dome, there have been calls for technology transfer and co-production of Iron Dome in the United States. Just as the US and Israel share co-production of the Arrow missile system, with Boeing manufacturing 40-50 percent of the production content, there has been support in the U.S. Congress, media and think tanks in favor of co-production. The U.S. House of Representatives included report language in its FY-2013 Defense Authorization Act supporting Iron Dome with $680 million but also instructing that the Director of the U.S. Missile Defense Agency, Lt. Gen. Patrick O'Reilly, "should explore any opportunity to enter into co-production of the Iron Dome system with Israel, in light of the significant U.S. investment in this system." There are media reports that the Pentagon is requesting similar language in the Senate Defense Authorization Act as well as the respective House and Senate defense appropriations bills for 2013.
 
2012-11-19 05:33:40 PM

Magorn: Gawd almighty, do you realize what you've just done? Now someday I'm going have to write a humor novel about the end of the world where ALL the competing doomsday scenarios from all the worlds's religions and myths come true setting off an absolute logistical nightmare...(and it will of course have to feature Thor and St MIchael going toe to toe at some point)


I would read this. It would necessarily require copious amounts of humor and snark. Do it.
 
2012-11-19 05:33:43 PM

But see, that's where I differ ... I don't give one flying iota what religion you are


Well, for once you should give an iota. Because it's ridiculous for you to ask why Jewish refugees fled to Israel when your own Catholic Church worked damn hard to make that the only option.
 
2012-11-19 05:34:21 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: It's exactly as I said before we've come to a point that we need to pick sides. Sometimes you cant broker a peace.


I nuclear bomb strategically places is the ultimate peacemaker. You have three months to figure it out and if you fail, ka-boom. No wailing wall for the Jews. No Gethsemane for the Christians, and no Dome of the Rock for the Muslims. You all ruined your chances. Level it all and make it uninhabitable with a Co-60 laced bomb.
 
2012-11-19 05:36:34 PM

ocschwar: But see, that's where I differ ... I don't give one flying iota what religion you are


Well, for once you should give an iota. Because it's ridiculous for you to ask why Jewish refugees fled to Israel when your own Catholic Church worked damn hard to make that the only option.


You're right, drop a Fat Man on the Vatican as well. And no, I don't have to care. If the higher ups of my religion are actively working against another religion, blow them up. The Vatican doesn't listen to American Catholics anyways and even less-so the Jesuits ... we're the bastard child of the bastard child of the Holy Roman Catholic Church.
 
2012-11-19 05:38:52 PM

hasty ambush: Antimatter: hasty ambush: Antimatter: hasty ambush: Antimatter: hasty ambush: I blame Reagan and others for failing to listen to progressives who said missile diefense would never work 

[www.mom4freedom.com image 640x572]

Wake me when IDF shoots down a ICBM traveling a few times the speed of sound.

Because that's what Reagan was promoting. Iron dome is a local areas rocket protection for non ICBMs. It's very effective, and no one ever said such things wouldn't work.

"Iron Dome" missile defense system is an outgrowth of the U.S. Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI)

No it's not, it's an outgrowth of the patriot missile system, which was not covered by SDI, thankfully.

Some SDI technology was used by Patriot missile systems in the 1991 Persian Gulf war to defend against Iraqi Scud missile attack

Got anything more precise then that? That's like saying some JDAM technology is used in my car's navigation.


The Patriot PAC-3 uses the Extended Range Interceptor (ERINT) technology from the SDIs
TMD system.


So you're back-peddling off your claim about the Gulf War Patriot being related to SDI?
 
2012-11-19 05:40:58 PM

seadoo2006: The Stealth Hippopotamus: It's exactly as I said before we've come to a point that we need to pick sides. Sometimes you cant broker a peace.

I nuclear bomb strategically places is the ultimate peacemaker. You have three months to figure it out and if you fail, ka-boom. No wailing wall for the Jews. No Gethsemane for the Christians, and no Dome of the Rock for the Muslims. You all ruined your chances. Level it all and make it uninhabitable with a Co-60 laced bomb.


If you think a few dozen Palestinian dead is bad, how is millions dead better?
 
2012-11-19 05:43:37 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: So missile defense doesn't escalate tensions.


Not necessarily. Just in the world we actually live in.

But remember, this is rocket defense. Palestinian rockets are slower than (say) Soviet ICBMs by a factor of approximately one squintillion (which is why this kind of thing can actually work). More to your point, anti-rocket rockets do not require giant weapon-like "defenses" to be hung in space over the head of the people you're defending yourself against.

Also, an anti-rocket system that knocks down 50% of the rockets is a success. An anti-rocket system that knocks down 80% of the rockets is a resounding success. A missile defense system that knocks down 99.98% of nuclear missiles is a catastrophic failure (especially if its existence caused missiles to be launched in the first place).
 
2012-11-19 05:44:47 PM

I_C_Weener: seadoo2006: The Stealth Hippopotamus: It's exactly as I said before we've come to a point that we need to pick sides. Sometimes you cant broker a peace.

I nuclear bomb strategically places is the ultimate peacemaker. You have three months to figure it out and if you fail, ka-boom. No wailing wall for the Jews. No Gethsemane for the Christians, and no Dome of the Rock for the Muslims. You all ruined your chances. Level it all and make it uninhabitable with a Co-60 laced bomb.

If you think a few dozen Palestinian dead is bad, how is millions dead better?


As I said, give them three months to work it out. You'd think with a Co-60 laced weapon planted firmly at their heads, they'd figure out a way to save their countries, if not, fark them. We don't need people who can't form a lasting peace on this planet anymore. I have no sympathy anymore for people who either have no desire or have no capability to have peace. Make Israel open their borders. Make the Israel and Palestine a merged state with equal representation. Make it work. I don't care how, but do it. Because after 90 days, BOOM, you all lost.
 
2012-11-19 05:48:26 PM

Magorn: doglover: Diogenes: Isn't the idea of rockets not being able to strike Israel one of the events leading up to the Rapture? I seem to remember that from the first book of Left Behind.

/read the series on a whim

No. Israel plays no part in the Ragnarok.

The good news is, with global warming, the Fimbulwinter is highly unlikely.

Gawd almighty, do you realize what you've just done? Now someday I'm going have to write a humor novel about the end of the world where ALL the competing doomsday scenarios from all the worlds's religions and myths come true setting off an absolute logistical nightmare...(and it will of course have to feature Thor and St MIchael going toe to toe at some point)


DO IT! And then post the link on farkus
 
2012-11-19 05:49:33 PM

ocschwar: Oh, are you? Then look at your own church's role in all this. You're yammering on and on about why Sderot's Moroccan refugees didn't go elsewhere, well, guess what: your church had a major role in keeping the doors to Jewish emigration firmly shut throughout the 20th Century. Emigration to the US was not an option until 1965, for example.




Yes, keep arguing about why the blood you spill is justified while perverting the world around and perpetrating evil on an entire people - that has always worked out for Jews, historically.
 
2012-11-19 05:52:24 PM
"Yes, keep arguing about why the blood you spill is justified while perverting the world around"

Seedoo had a specific question: why did Sderot's residents emigrate from Morocco to Israel and not elsewhere.

I gave him specific answers: because Morocco's treatment of Jews was horrific, and there were no other options.

And as for "keep arguing about why the blood you spill", we would not be spilling a single drop if not for Hamas's rocketry hobby.
 
2012-11-19 05:55:12 PM

semiotix: But remember, this is rocket defense. Palestinian rockets are slower than (say) Soviet ICBMs by a factor of approximately one squintillion (which is why this kind of thing can actually work). More to your point, anti-rocket rockets do not require giant weapon-like "defenses" to be hung in space over the head of the people you're defending yourself against.

Also, an anti-rocket system that knocks down 50% of the rockets is a success. An anti-rocket system that knocks down 80% of the rockets is a resounding success. A missile defense system that knocks down 99.98% of nuclear missiles is a catastrophic failure (especially if its existence caused missiles to be launched in the first place).



So it's just a matter of scale? Remember if you stop a Palestinian missile you save maybe (high side) 4-5 lives and some property damage. If you stop an ICBM you save millions of lives and billions in property damage. And just cause we currently cant do it doesnt me we stop trying.

Now here is a question for those who know how the defense works. Are they shooting them down over Israel? I'm just thinking that two falling rockets would lead to more damage. What happens when one misses?
 
2012-11-19 05:57:05 PM

Now here is a question for those who know how the defense works. Are they shooting them down over Israel? I'm just thinking that two falling rockets would lead to more damage. What happens when one misses?


The Iron Dome missiles cause the explosives in the Qassam rocket to detonate. After that, what comes down is about as harmful as gravel.

When one misses, it detonates itself, to avoid making things even worse, but the Qassam rocket continues, and someone might get killed.
 
2012-11-19 05:57:25 PM

ocschwar: "Yes, keep arguing about why the blood you spill is justified while perverting the world around"

Seedoo had a specific question: why did Sderot's residents emigrate from Morocco to Israel and not elsewhere.

I gave him specific answers: because Morocco's treatment of Jews was horrific, and there were no other options.

And as for "keep arguing about why the blood you spill", we would not be spilling a single drop if not for Hamas's rocketry hobby.


Again, there was all of Western Europe available to them after 1945. So the US was closed off, that's not unheard of even today. But the hundreds of thousands that emigrated to Brazil had no problems.

But you cannot honestly make the argument that it's all Hamas's fault when you know, you stole the land from the 800,000 Palestinians that were forced off their land and expelled from the newly formed Israeli state in 1948 and guess what, Israel started that war ...

Sorry, you can't just take inhabited territories, expel all the people living there, form a new country for the Jews and then expect the Arab world to be all hunky-dorie with that, do you? Oh, and then go to war with the Arab World within a year of forming your new state. Yeah, mhmm, sounds like it's all "other people's" fault ... sounds to me like the Jews were just pissed off that their 'holy land' was only a territory and decided to enact some Hitler-style annexation in return for WW2 ... but in this case, the UN and Britain gave the Israelis the firepower to do what they've been incapable of doing for the last 6000 years.
 
2012-11-19 06:03:02 PM

ocschwar: Now here is a question for those who know how the defense works. Are they shooting them down over Israel? I'm just thinking that two falling rockets would lead to more damage. What happens when one misses?

The Iron Dome missiles cause the explosives in the Qassam rocket to detonate. After that, what comes down is about as harmful as gravel.

When one misses, it detonates itself, to avoid making things even worse, but the Qassam rocket continues, and someone might get killed.


thanks
 
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