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(Washington Post)   The first section of the DC Beltway's new HOT lanes opened this weekend, let's see how they handle the first Monday morning rush hour. 6:11 - HOT lanes open, 6:38 - 4 car collision at entrance shuts down HOT lanes   (washingtonpost.com ) divider line
    More: Fail, beltway, High occupancy/toll and express toll lanes, dc beltway, car accidents, rush hour, express lanes, E-ZPass, Virginia State Police  
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9721 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Nov 2012 at 9:23 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



164 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2012-11-19 09:22:40 AM  
I wonder what the chances are that some halfwit found himself accidentally entering the lanes and tried to back up to get out of it.
 
2012-11-19 09:25:41 AM  
The cause of the crash has not been determined but Virginia State Police are urging drivers to be careful and not back up if they mistakenly enter the Express Lanes.

I see it all the time, but who the fark thinks its OK to back up on the highway because you screwed up an exit?
 
2012-11-19 09:26:26 AM  

Pocket Ninja: I wonder what the chances are that some halfwit found himself accidentally entering the lanes and tried to back up to get out of it.


So, you learned to drive in DC too?
 
2012-11-19 09:26:37 AM  

Hack Patooey: The cause of the crash has not been determined but Virginia State Police are urging drivers to be careful and not back up if they mistakenly enter the Express Lanes.

I see it all the time, but who the fark thinks its OK to back up on the highway because you screwed up an exit?


A woman.
 
2012-11-19 09:27:51 AM  

Hack Patooey: The cause of the crash has not been determined but Virginia State Police are urging drivers to be careful and not back up if they mistakenly enter the Express Lanes.

I see it all the time, but who the fark thinks its OK to back up on the highway because you screwed up an exit?


Sadly I see this all the time. WTF is wrong with people? Go to the next exit shmohawks.
We can keep building extra lanes and highways but you can't fix "stupid".
 
2012-11-19 09:28:17 AM  
DCers don't know how to use HOV lanes? Live and learn. Live and learn....
 
2012-11-19 09:28:32 AM  
Ctrl-Z, Ctrl-Z, Ctrl-Z!
 
2012-11-19 09:30:40 AM  
That's Northern Virginia for you. Desperate to make sure the region still focuses on cars for transport, can't figure out how to operate a damn car to (literally) save their lives.
 
2012-11-19 09:30:56 AM  

Hack Patooey: The cause of the crash has not been determined but Virginia State Police are urging drivers to be careful and not back up if they mistakenly enter the Express Lanes.

I see it all the time, but who the fark thinks its OK to back up on the highway because you screwed up an exit?


Morans of the DC variety.
 
2012-11-19 09:33:05 AM  

Hack Patooey: The cause of the crash has not been determined but Virginia State Police are urging drivers to be careful and not back up if they mistakenly enter the Express Lanes.

I see it all the time, but who the fark thinks its OK to back up on the highway because you screwed up an exit?


I'm pretty sure common sense isn't necessary to get a license anymore. I actually know people that will get on an expressway, even if there is a more direct route, simply because it is the only way they know how to get anywhere.
I can't believe it still happens in an age where GPS is so common.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-11-19 09:34:41 AM  
I see it all the time, but who the fark thinks its OK to back up on the highway because you screwed up an exit?

I saw a few people back out of electronic toll lanes after ticket cameras were installed in Massachusetts. See, they do change behavior.
 
2012-11-19 09:35:15 AM  
They've had five collisions since the HOT lanes opened on Saturday, all of which were people who got caught going onto the lanes and trying to swerve out. Brilliant signage, obviously.
 
2012-11-19 09:36:11 AM  

Fade2black: A woman.


If I could have the time back that I've spent frantically reminding the g/f that no, she can't just brake here to give herself a moment to think about what to do next...

/ The cop is waving you on to the right. Go. Go now! I know we were going left, but the road is closed. There are on other options. You have to go right. THE COP IS GETTING PISSED. GO.
 
2012-11-19 09:36:20 AM  
They are up to five accidents now. And yeah, it's been people realizing the toll lanes are now charging and wait to the last moment to change back.

I hate Maryland drivers, but the suburbanites from NOVA piss me off. Go Team Old Town Alexandria.
 
2012-11-19 09:36:37 AM  
I laugh at the people who live out in the burbs. If you work in DC, live in DC (especially if you don't have kids, no excuse then).
 
2012-11-19 09:37:07 AM  
learned to drive on the beltway, so getting a kick ...
 
2012-11-19 09:38:51 AM  
They rigged up a ramp where anyone can get on the thing and only once you're committed do you realize that there's no toll-taker option. You either have the EZ-Pass radio transponder or you don't. The sign informing you "EZ-Pass Required" is little more than the sign you might have in your neighborhood reading, "Cloaca Lane" or "Mutton Road".

And once you're in, there's no way out NOR do you have any idea what fate awaits you if you don't pay the toll. Could be the Drone comes out of the Pentagon and Hellfire's your illicit motoring ass. Could be the whole thing locks up like those giant steel plates that come up out of the ground around the Capitol Building and other super-secure locations around here. Rather than risk such a fate, the only alternative is to back your shiat on up the ramp to freedom and hope your friendly fellow motorists will take sympathy on you.

Turns out it's a minor fine if you don't have the EZ-Pass, something like $12.50 plus a $1.50 handling fee. They should make the EZ-Pass Required sign a GIANT farking billboard, screaming at you, some radio message broadcasting at 10 Million Megawatts across the entire radio spectrum so that no matter what you're tuned to it'll scream "YOU MUST HAVE AN EZ-PASS OR THE VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION WILL HOLD YOU DOWN AND ADMINISTER AN ANGRY JAILHOUSE FISTFARK!" or some such warning.
 
2012-11-19 09:39:28 AM  
Atlanta put in HOT lanes a few months ago.

(one of the) Biggest wastes of transportation money in the region. And that is saying something.

The only reason we did not have wrecks clogging up the lanes was...nobody uses them.
 
2012-11-19 09:41:25 AM  

Hack Patooey: The cause of the crash has not been determined but Virginia State Police are urging drivers to be careful and not back up if they mistakenly enter the Express Lanes.

I see it all the time, but who the fark thinks its OK to back up on the highway because you screwed up an exit?


I saw a car stop on the beltway so that it could get over two lanes to exit. Full out stop on an interstate highway so it could exit. I'm still amazed there were no accidents form that. It's a testament to the rest of the drivers that the idiots don't cause more wrecks.
 
2012-11-19 09:41:32 AM  
"YOU MUST HAVE AN EZ-PASS OR THE VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION WILL HOLD YOU DOWN AND ADMINISTER AN ANGRY JAILHOUSE FISTFARK!"

Then we'd have to wait in line behind all of Dupont circle who showed up and "forgot" their EZ-Pass at home
 
2012-11-19 09:41:44 AM  
This construction has been going on for a LONG time, and they've been putting signs up (both fixed and electronic) warning about this for WEEKS. All EZ-pass users have also received snail mail explaining IN DETAIL what's happening, how to handle it, and what you need to do in case you want an HOV-capable EZ-pass.

I'm not surprised that someone tried to get on, and either panicked when they saw a cop (and tried to get off), or actually STOPPED and tried to back up. It's HOV people. The slug lines have this down to a science, with no Gov't interference, and it works great. Why can't you read a simple sign?
 
2012-11-19 09:43:23 AM  

freewill: If I could have the time back that I've spent frantically reminding the g/f that no, she can't just brake here to give herself a moment to think about what to do next...

/ The cop is waving you on to the right. Go. Go now! I know we were going left, but the road is closed. There are on other options. You have to go right. THE COP IS GETTING PISSED. GO.


Are you me? Or are you dating all of my ex girlfriends ever?
 
2012-11-19 09:43:32 AM  

AngryJailhouseFistfark: They rigged up a ramp where anyone can get on the thing and only once you're committed do you realize that there's no toll-taker option. You either have the EZ-Pass radio transponder or you don't. The sign informing you "EZ-Pass Required" is little more than the sign you might have in your neighborhood reading, "Cloaca Lane" or "Mutton Road".

And once you're in, there's no way out NOR do you have any idea what fate awaits you if you don't pay the toll. Could be the Drone comes out of the Pentagon and Hellfire's your illicit motoring ass. Could be the whole thing locks up like those giant steel plates that come up out of the ground around the Capitol Building and other super-secure locations around here. Rather than risk such a fate, the only alternative is to back your shiat on up the ramp to freedom and hope your friendly fellow motorists will take sympathy on you.

Turns out it's a minor fine if you don't have the EZ-Pass, something like $12.50 plus a $1.50 handling fee. They should make the EZ-Pass Required sign a GIANT farking billboard, screaming at you, some radio message broadcasting at 10 Million Megawatts across the entire radio spectrum so that no matter what you're tuned to it'll scream "YOU MUST HAVE AN EZ-PASS OR THE VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION WILL HOLD YOU DOWN AND ADMINISTER AN ANGRY JAILHOUSE FISTFARK!" or some such warning.


Wow. You guys are really struggling with this, huh?
 
2012-11-19 09:43:36 AM  
Bring on the Google cars!
 
2012-11-19 09:44:01 AM  

AngryJailhouseFistfark: They rigged up a ramp where anyone can get on the thing and only once you're committed do you realize that there's no toll-taker option. You either have the EZ-Pass radio transponder or you don't. The sign informing you "EZ-Pass Required" is little more than the sign you might have in your neighborhood reading, "Cloaca Lane" or "Mutton Road".

And once you're in, there's no way out NOR do you have any idea what fate awaits you if you don't pay the toll. Could be the Drone comes out of the Pentagon and Hellfire's your illicit motoring ass. Could be the whole thing locks up like those giant steel plates that come up out of the ground around the Capitol Building and other super-secure locations around here. Rather than risk such a fate, the only alternative is to back your shiat on up the ramp to freedom and hope your friendly fellow motorists will take sympathy on you.

Turns out it's a minor fine if you don't have the EZ-Pass, something like $12.50 plus a $1.50 handling fee. They should make the EZ-Pass Required sign a GIANT farking billboard, screaming at you, some radio message broadcasting at 10 Million Megawatts across the entire radio spectrum so that no matter what you're tuned to it'll scream "YOU MUST HAVE AN EZ-PASS OR THE VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION WILL HOLD YOU DOWN AND ADMINISTER AN ANGRY JAILHOUSE FISTFARK!" or some such warning.


No, what they need is a positional sensor that can activate your phone and send a bluetooth text that covers the entire screen. After all if you are worried about signage, you need to put the sign on what people are actually looking at.
 
2012-11-19 09:44:02 AM  
Special roads for rich people. Let me know when we can begin to tar and feather the so called progressives that created this fubar.

I've reviewed the website and I'm afraid of accidentally getting on this thing. Once you enter its nor clear where exactly it will take you. Also, I'm only a simple Obamanaire, I couldn't afford to drive this thing until my household income goes well above $500K.

But I do get a kick of how they plan to run this thing on the honor system. If you can afford the flex pass then you will be on the honor system and not have to pay any actual tolls.
 
2012-11-19 09:45:12 AM  
I'm sure the obscene fine in place for not having an ez-pass had nothing to do with this.
 
2012-11-19 09:45:12 AM  

genepool lifeboat: I actually know people that will get on an expressway, even if there is a more direct route, simply because it is the only way they know how to get anywhere.


Expressway routes can be shorter in time versus land routes which are shorter in distance.
 
2012-11-19 09:47:09 AM  

RsquaredW: They've had five collisions since the HOT lanes opened on Saturday, all of which were people who got caught going onto the lanes and trying to swerve out. Brilliant signage, obviously.


Not that they didn't do it in the stupidest way possible, anyway.

The way the HOT lanes interact with I-66 is intentional stupidity.
 
2012-11-19 09:50:58 AM  
Seems like it would have made sense to make the HOT lanes toll- (and citation-) free for a week or two so that people could get used to them, rather than try to turn on the Cash Machine on Day 1. Now you've got people backing up on the expressway and causing multi-car accidents because they don't want to get a ticket.
 
2012-11-19 09:51:25 AM  

david_gaithersburg: Special roads for rich people. Let me know when we can begin to tar and feather the so called progressives that created this fubar.

I've reviewed the website and I'm afraid of accidentally getting on this thing. Once you enter its nor clear where exactly it will take you. Also, I'm only a simple Obamanaire, I couldn't afford to drive this thing until my household income goes well above $500K.

But I do get a kick of how they plan to run this thing on the honor system. If you can afford the flex pass then you will be on the honor system and not have to pay any actual tolls.


David david david, this is not a special road for rich people, it is a special road for important people. People who have things to do and people to see. People who need to get things done! People quite unlike yourself, apparently, for you don't know how the pass system works. Because there will be fines, david, for those unimportant people that want to use the lanes without paying for the privelidge. Oh yes! Fines out the yin-yang, and it's all done electronically. No cops needed, which frees them up to attend to the crashes I guess.
 
2012-11-19 09:52:09 AM  
You know how you fix this???? Just have VDOT have a movable lane or adjustable gates and signage and just move the traffic accordingly....
i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com


Why, it could be a model for the REST of the country.


/brillant
 
2012-11-19 09:52:29 AM  

david_gaithersburg: But I do get a kick of how they plan to run this thing on the honor system. If you can afford the flex pass then you will be on the honor system and not have to pay any actual tolls.


How's that?
 
2012-11-19 09:52:44 AM  

AngryJailhouseFistfark:
Turns out it's a minor fine if you don't have the EZ-Pass, something like $12.50 plus a $1.50 handling fee. They should make the EZ-Pass Required sign a GIANT farking billboard, screaming at you, some radio message broadcasting at 10 Million Megawatts across the entire radio spectrum so that no matter what you're tuned to it'll scream "YOU MUST HAVE AN EZ-PASS OR THE VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION WILL HOLD YOU DOWN AND ADMINISTER AN ANGRY JAILHOUSE FISTFARK!" or some such warning.


Don't be stupid, I'm driving here; I don't have time to look out the windows or read road signs.
 
2012-11-19 09:53:03 AM  
(A)

Drivers: the problem is the roads!

(B)

Roads: the problem is the drivers!

(If you pick A, you're liberal. If you pick B, you're conservative.)
 
2012-11-19 09:54:51 AM  

pag1107: I'm sure the obscene fine in place for not having an ez-pass had nothing to do with this.


This is precisely what occurred to me. Sucker 'em onto the lane thinking they can pay the toll in cash like you can on the Dulles Toll Road or the Dulles Greenway, only to find the cold, uncaring gaze of the camera and radio beacon scrutinizing you.
 
2012-11-19 09:56:02 AM  

Hack Patooey: The cause of the crash has not been determined but Virginia State Police are urging drivers to be careful and not back up if they mistakenly enter the Express Lanes.

I see it all the time, but who the fark thinks its OK to back up on the highway because you screwed up an exit?


Not only do I see this all the time, some farkwit BACKED INTO ME once! Going onto an entrance ramp and the car started giving me issues--wouldn't accelerate right, almost every idiot light on the dash starts flashing. Didn't want to pull onto a busy highway when she's acting up, so I pulled onto the shoulder & called AAA. As I'm waiting, a white commercial pickup truck passes me, goes onto the shoulder, and starts backing up. I figure he's being a good Samaritan and wants to see if he can help. Except that he's not slowing down. Hit the horn but the car's turned off--no horn. By the time I turn on the ignition to try the horn again or maybe try to get the hell out of the way, the asshole slams right into me. Bumper crumples, trailer hitch on the back of the truck punctures the radiator. When he tries to pull forward, he nearly rips the radiator out of the engine. No injuries, thankfully, just utter incredulity.

Luckily, the 2 guys he was with told the cops the truth. I don't think anyone, myself included, would EVER believe that somebody got backed into on the shoulder of a busy highway ramp. But it happened.

/CSB
//VW's apparently have a "limp-home" mode (Emergency Running Mode). That's what kicked in that day. Never experienced it before.
 
2012-11-19 09:56:40 AM  

pag1107: I'm sure the obscene fine in place for not having an ez-pass had nothing to do with this.


In MD, if you go through the ezpass toll lane without one, they just photo your plate and send your a bill for the toll. You get like 5 free ones (just the cost of the toll), and then they start tacking on an admin charge of like 5 bucks a pop.

I'll be riding my bike on these new express lanes for freeeee. Not that it matters much. Even when it's not for free, a motorcycle can tailgate a car through ezpass toll lanes.
 
2012-11-19 09:57:25 AM  
I saw that this morning, it was hilarious.

I was curious to see how my commute would be affected and whether I was going to try out the new lanes. Then I get to see that the new lanes caused more traffic than normal.

yay!

/Alexandria!
 
2012-11-19 09:57:46 AM  

Pocket Ninja: I wonder what the chances are that some halfwit found himself accidentally entering the lanes and tried to back up to get out of it.


This is what's causing it, per the news radio reports. These people should not have licenses and the offenders should get their licenses yanked.

Farking, farking, farking idiots.

How do these people get cars?

Go the eff around you effing morons.

And it's a tiny minority that does this, but causes problems for the rest. Thousands and thousands of cars are moving through here. But it's that "special-kind-of-stupid" assclown that decides the BACK THE FARK UP ON THE 65 MPH BELTWAY to avoid a toll.
 
2012-11-19 09:58:21 AM  
The cause of the crash has not been determined but Virginia State Police are urging drivers to be careful and not back up if they mistakenly enter the Express Lanes. If you accidentally enter the Express Lanes, keep going, take the first exit and go to www.495ExpressLanes.com to pay the toll online, police said.

Who the f*ck backs up on the freeway? I was merging onto the Cross Island from LIE (east Queens, NY) last week and nearly plowed into some idiot who was BACKING UP ON THE ONRAMP. He was around the curve so I couldn't see him until the last minute. Thankfully I was going slow and there wasn't anyone in the next lane over and I could swerve out of the way easily, but holy shiat.
 
2012-11-19 09:59:01 AM  

Hack Patooey: The cause of the crash has not been determined but Virginia State Police are urging drivers to be careful and not back up if they mistakenly enter the Express Lanes.

I see it all the time, but who the fark thinks its OK to back up on the highway because you screwed up an exit?


Politicians? Methodists? The guys off of Duck Dynasty?
 
2012-11-19 09:59:14 AM  

gochuck: I laugh at the people who live out in the burbs. If you work in DC, live in DC (especially if you don't have kids, no excuse then).


Perhaps we don't want to live in a city whose "leadership" is nearly constantly under criminal investigation?

Perhaps we don't want to live in a city where Marion frakking Barry is seen as some kind of bizarre folk hero?
 
2012-11-19 10:00:00 AM  

brigid_fitch: Hack Patooey: The cause of the crash has not been determined but Virginia State Police are urging drivers to be careful and not back up if they mistakenly enter the Express Lanes.

I see it all the time, but who the fark thinks its OK to back up on the highway because you screwed up an exit?

Not only do I see this all the time, some farkwit BACKED INTO ME once! Going onto an entrance ramp and the car started giving me issues--wouldn't accelerate right, almost every idiot light on the dash starts flashing. Didn't want to pull onto a busy highway when she's acting up, so I pulled onto the shoulder & called AAA. As I'm waiting, a white commercial pickup truck passes me, goes onto the shoulder, and starts backing up. I figure he's being a good Samaritan and wants to see if he can help. Except that he's not slowing down. Hit the horn but the car's turned off--no horn. By the time I turn on the ignition to try the horn again or maybe try to get the hell out of the way, the asshole slams right into me. Bumper crumples, trailer hitch on the back of the truck punctures the radiator. When he tries to pull forward, he nearly rips the radiator out of the engine. No injuries, thankfully, just utter incredulity.

Luckily, the 2 guys he was with told the cops the truth. I don't think anyone, myself included, would EVER believe that somebody got backed into on the shoulder of a busy highway ramp. But it happened.

/CSB
//VW's apparently have a "limp-home" mode (Emergency Running Mode). That's what kicked in that day. Never experienced it before.


More importantly, VW horns only work when the ignition is on?
 
2012-11-19 10:00:21 AM  

brigid_fitch: Hack Patooey: The cause of the crash has not been determined but Virginia State Police are urging drivers to be careful and not back up if they mistakenly enter the Express Lanes.

I see it all the time, but who the fark thinks its OK to back up on the highway because you screwed up an exit?

Not only do I see this all the time, some farkwit BACKED INTO ME once! Going onto an entrance ramp and the car started giving me issues--wouldn't accelerate right, almost every idiot light on the dash starts flashing. Didn't want to pull onto a busy highway when she's acting up, so I pulled onto the shoulder & called AAA. As I'm waiting, a white commercial pickup truck passes me, goes onto the shoulder, and starts backing up. I figure he's being a good Samaritan and wants to see if he can help. Except that he's not slowing down. Hit the horn but the car's turned off--no horn. By the time I turn on the ignition to try the horn again or maybe try to get the hell out of the way, the asshole slams right into me. Bumper crumples, trailer hitch on the back of the truck punctures the radiator. When he tries to pull forward, he nearly rips the radiator out of the engine. No injuries, thankfully, just utter incredulity.

Luckily, the 2 guys he was with told the cops the truth. I don't think anyone, myself included, would EVER believe that somebody got backed into on the shoulder of a busy highway ramp. But it happened.

/CSB
//VW's apparently have a "limp-home" mode (Emergency Running Mode). That's what kicked in that day. Never experienced it before.


Many years ago I was sitting at a light waiting to get on the freeway. Some redneck douche in a big truck in front of me was messing with the two women in his cab and didn't notice that his truck was rolling backward. I saw him rolling toward me and leaned on the horn, he didn't pay attention. When he bumped into me, he floored it and took off. Thankfully I was in my dad's '67 Pontiac Lemans and it didn't even scratch the bumper, but damn.
 
2012-11-19 10:00:34 AM  
There has been an extensive media campaign for these new express lanes. The traffic reporters are going out of their way to mention it as well as a big push since summer to get the locals signed up and using E-ZPass. I seriously don't know how much more clear it could be. The only thing I can suggest is parking a state trooper at the entrance 24/7, as people are a lot less likely to do stupid things if they know a cop is right there who will give them an even bigger ticket.
 
2012-11-19 10:01:07 AM  

AngryJailhouseFistfark: They rigged up a ramp where anyone can get on the thing and only once you're committed do you realize that there's no toll-taker option. You either have the EZ-Pass radio transponder or you don't. The sign informing you "EZ-Pass Required" is little more than the sign you might have in your neighborhood reading, "Cloaca Lane" or "Mutton Road".

And once you're in, there's no way out NOR do you have any idea what fate awaits you if you don't pay the toll. Could be the Drone comes out of the Pentagon and Hellfire's your illicit motoring ass. Could be the whole thing locks up like those giant steel plates that come up out of the ground around the Capitol Building and other super-secure locations around here. Rather than risk such a fate, the only alternative is to back your shiat on up the ramp to freedom and hope your friendly fellow motorists will take sympathy on you.

Turns out it's a minor fine if you don't have the EZ-Pass, something like $12.50 plus a $1.50 handling fee. They should make the EZ-Pass Required sign a GIANT farking billboard, screaming at you, some radio message broadcasting at 10 Million Megawatts across the entire radio spectrum so that no matter what you're tuned to it'll scream "YOU MUST HAVE AN EZ-PASS OR THE VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION WILL HOLD YOU DOWN AND ADMINISTER AN ANGRY JAILHOUSE FISTFARK!" or some such warning.


Little more than a street sign my arse, they've had signs up for weeks spelled out with shinny farking lights so you can see it day and night that for months. It's also been on the radio and in the news. If people somehow managed to miss this it's thier fault not VDOT.
 
2012-11-19 10:01:19 AM  

brigid_fitch: Hack Patooey: The cause of the crash has not been determined but Virginia State Police are urging drivers to be careful and not back up if they mistakenly enter the Express Lanes.

I see it all the time, but who the fark thinks its OK to back up on the highway because you screwed up an exit?

Not only do I see this all the time, some farkwit BACKED INTO ME once! Going onto an entrance ramp and the car started giving me issues--wouldn't accelerate right, almost every idiot light on the dash starts flashing. Didn't want to pull onto a busy highway when she's acting up, so I pulled onto the shoulder & called AAA. As I'm waiting, a white commercial pickup truck passes me, goes onto the shoulder, and starts backing up. I figure he's being a good Samaritan and wants to see if he can help. Except that he's not slowing down. Hit the horn but the car's turned off--no horn. By the time I turn on the ignition to try the horn again or maybe try to get the hell out of the way, the asshole slams right into me. Bumper crumples, trailer hitch on the back of the truck punctures the radiator. When he tries to pull forward, he nearly rips the radiator out of the engine. No injuries, thankfully, just utter incredulity.

Luckily, the 2 guys he was with told the cops the truth. I don't think anyone, myself included, would EVER believe that somebody got backed into on the shoulder of a busy highway ramp. But it happened.

/CSB
//VW's apparently have a "limp-home" mode (Emergency Running Mode). That's what kicked in that day. Never experienced it before.


You KNOW who would design a car with some kind of system that allowed the car to over ride YOUR want to drive it manually, don't you?

libertyledger.com
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-11-19 10:02:26 AM  

Some FAQs for the road:

How do I know how many axles my vehicle has?

If you are driving a private passenger vehicle and not towing a trailer, chances are your vehicle has two axles. However, you should contact the E-ZPass agency which manages your account to verify the number of axles on your vehicle. Please make sure that your vehicle has only two axles before your first trip in the 495 Express Lanes.

There was an accident and I did not receive a faster trip. Will I be charged?

We are sorry to hear that your trip in the 495 Express Lanes did not meet you expectations. Refunds will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

What are the administrative fees for toll violations?

If you do not pay your toll, the best thing to do is to immediately go to the ?Missed Toll??page to pay your toll. There will be a $1.50 administrative fee to cover the cost of collecting the toll. If the 495 Express Lanes has to send you a letter with an unpaid invoice, that administrative fee goes up to $12.50 per trip. If you do not pay your first invoice then that fee escalates to $25.00 per trip.
The first two are for entertainment value only. The last says they're a bunch of greedy bastards who should be dumped into the Potomac wearing cement overshoes. The per-trip, rather than per-month, "fee" is unrelated to expenses, it's just a way to gouge revenue. This is how people in Texas end up owing hundreds of thousands of dollars.  Some toll roads bundle up your no-account charges for a month and send you a combined bill, plus a monthly processing charge which is related to the actual processing cost.
 
2012-11-19 10:03:42 AM  
Within 15 minutes of driving into DC I saw 6 accidents and someone who was trailing us at about 6 feet nearly slammed into our car. WIthin 20 minutes I was cussing like a sailor and wanting to go all ITG on everyone else on the road.
 
2012-11-19 10:06:23 AM  

This text is now purple: RsquaredW: They've had five collisions since the HOT lanes opened on Saturday, all of which were people who got caught going onto the lanes and trying to swerve out. Brilliant signage, obviously.

Not that they didn't do it in the stupidest way possible, anyway.

The way the HOT lanes interact with I-66 is intentional stupidity.


I was under the impression they just used the old left exits for half of them.

JackieRabbit: DCers don't know how to use HOV lanes? Live and learn. Live and learn....


Huh? There's probably more HOV lanes/roads in the DC metro area than anywhere else on earth.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-11-19 10:06:55 AM  
maxximillian: It's also been on the radio and in the news. If people somehow managed to miss this it's thier fault not VDOT.

We don't know if the backers were regular commuters.

I know somebody who got a toll ticket in Massachusetts where we've had cameras for years. She didn't like highways, had never been on the toll road before, and had no clue how to properly navigate the lines of cars at a toll plaza. I'm sure there are people in Virginia who don't regularly take the highway and pay no attention to highway-related news. Some of those pick the wrong day to take a special trip and end up confused.
 
2012-11-19 10:07:42 AM  
Hey NOVA FARKers!

When I used to visit DC, I parked in the old Perpetual Savings Bank parking lot near the yellow line just off the beltway (near Geo. Washinton's Masonic lodge). It's been years, so that option is probably no longer available. I'm planning a trip to visit some museums. Where are some good parking lots in NOVA for those of us just visiting that are near a Metro station? I don't mind paying to park, but free is always better.
 
2012-11-19 10:08:00 AM  
Having witness a car make a right turn from the #1 of 4 lanes, onto the I-95 North exit ramp while going 60 MPH and completely perpendicular to the Maryland inner loop traffic, I can safely say that I have seen it all.

GO TO THE NEXT FARKING EXIT YOU ASS.
 
2012-11-19 10:10:29 AM  

jkl65s4: There has been an extensive media campaign for these new express lanes. The traffic reporters are going out of their way to mention it as well as a big push since summer to get the locals signed up and using E-ZPass. I seriously don't know how much more clear it could be. The only thing I can suggest is parking a state trooper at the entrance 24/7, as people are a lot less likely to do stupid things if they know a cop is right there who will give them an even bigger ticket.


1. I-66 to NB I-495 used to have two exits (left and right). The left exit has been repurposed for the HOT lanes. This is not well signed.
2. Not everyone on the beltway is a local.
 
2012-11-19 10:11:32 AM  

wambu: Hey NOVA FARKers!

When I used to visit DC, I parked in the old Perpetual Savings Bank parking lot near the yellow line just off the beltway (near Geo. Washinton's Masonic lodge). It's been years, so that option is probably no longer available. I'm planning a trip to visit some museums. Where are some good parking lots in NOVA for those of us just visiting that are near a Metro station? I don't mind paying to park, but free is always better.


I usually just park in the Metro lots, they're cheap and free on weekends. You pretty much need a smart trip card for the metro these days anyway.
 
2012-11-19 10:11:56 AM  
"Drivers using the HOT lanes will find that they have variable tolls, meaning the fees will change depending on how much traffic is on the road."

whatwhat? sounds like some pretty easy number manipulation can be had there.
 
2012-11-19 10:13:16 AM  

nickerj1: The way the HOT lanes interact with I-66 is intentional stupidity.

I was under the impression they just used the old left exits for half of them.


They do. The problem is most people merging onto NB I-495 used the left exits. The right exit was shared with the SB I-495. Last time I went, it was still in its final construction phase, and featured very passive-aggressive signage. If it's like the way VDOT usually operates, I suspect it's still like that.
 
2012-11-19 10:14:25 AM  

You Are All Sheep: "Drivers using the HOT lanes will find that they have variable tolls, meaning the fees will change depending on how much traffic is on the road."

whatwhat? sounds like some pretty easy number manipulation can be had there.


Yeah, that sounds like bullshiat. Assuming that means what it sounds like it means, you know, if the fee isn't predictable in advance, drivers won't be able to respond to it and it will be an ineffective traffic control. At that point, it's a pure cash grab.
 
2012-11-19 10:14:37 AM  

sodomizer: (A)

Drivers: the problem is the roads!

(B)

Roads: the problem is the drivers!

(If you pick A, you're liberal. If you pick B, you're conservative.)


i48.tinypic.com
 
2012-11-19 10:18:44 AM  

limeyfellow: Within 15 minutes of driving into DC I saw 6 accidents and someone who was trailing us at about 6 feet nearly slammed into our car. WIthin 20 minutes I was cussing like a sailor and wanting to go all ITG on everyone else on the road.


So after 20 minutes you reached the state most people are while scraping their windows in the morning if they live in the DC metro area. Living there for 5 years gave me excellent driving training, but it also gave me unholy levels of stress. I was in 3 accidents while living there. Never been in any before, and never any after. 2 were me being rear-ended. Both while stopped at a light. And the third was someone merging into my turn lane, from his turn lane. Totaling my car. None of these accidents got a police report because VA doesn't think someone's insurance might want that. At least I never had to pay a deductible, everyone admitted fault.

The last accident, I took my car to the shop reccomended by her insurance. They did $2K worth of repair work for what was probably $200 worth of damage. The guys there were happy to fix my car's dents, dings, and scrapes from it's whole history on their insurance's dime.

They even resurfaced my rims.
 
2012-11-19 10:20:16 AM  

You Are All Sheep: "Drivers using the HOT lanes will find that they have variable tolls, meaning the fees will change depending on how much traffic is on the road what new projects need to be funded."

 
2012-11-19 10:20:54 AM  

freewill: Fade2black: A woman.

If I could have the time back that I've spent frantically reminding the g/f that no, she can't just brake here to give herself a moment to think about what to do next...

/ The cop is waving you on to the right. Go. Go now! I know we were going left, but the road is closed. There are on other options. You have to go right. THE COP IS GETTING PISSED. GO.


If you need lots of time to make decisions, perhaps driving is not for you. Walk and don't chew gum while you're doing it so the rest of us can actually go somewhere. Holy mother of piss me the hell off, braking doesn't give you magical extra special timey wimey to think while everyone else waits--it's to make you not run into things.

/woman
//makes me want to vandalize people's cars while driving
///driving is not for the timid, scared, or the semi-functional
 
2012-11-19 10:24:19 AM  

brigid_fitch: Hack Patooey: The cause of the crash has not been determined but Virginia State Police are urging drivers to be careful and not back up if they mistakenly enter the Express Lanes.

I see it all the time, but who the fark thinks its OK to back up on the highway because you screwed up an exit?

Not only do I see this all the time, some farkwit BACKED INTO ME once! Going onto an entrance ramp and the car started giving me issues--wouldn't accelerate right, almost every idiot light on the dash starts flashing. Didn't want to pull onto a busy highway when she's acting up, so I pulled onto the shoulder & called AAA. As I'm waiting, a white commercial pickup truck passes me, goes onto the shoulder, and starts backing up. I figure he's being a good Samaritan and wants to see if he can help. Except that he's not slowing down. Hit the horn but the car's turned off--no horn. By the time I turn on the ignition to try the horn again or maybe try to get the hell out of the way, the asshole slams right into me. Bumper crumples, trailer hitch on the back of the truck punctures the radiator. When he tries to pull forward, he nearly rips the radiator out of the engine. No injuries, thankfully, just utter incredulity.

Luckily, the 2 guys he was with told the cops the truth. I don't think anyone, myself included, would EVER believe that somebody got backed into on the shoulder of a busy highway ramp. But it happened.

/CSB
//VW's apparently have a "limp-home" mode (Emergency Running Mode). That's what kicked in that day. Never experienced it before.


Ahh, the glories of VW ownership. Sounds like you own a GTI or a GLI, probably late 2007 - 2010?

/We call it "Christmas tree-ing."
//It farking sucks.
///DSG FTL
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-11-19 10:24:22 AM  
Girion47

Police also don't investigate minor accidents around here. Insurance companies follow a set of rules to assign fault: rear ender paid by insurance of guy in back, DUI paid by drunk guy's insurance, etc. In doubtful cases the adjusters have a beer and agree to split the bill 50-50. If you don't have collision insurance (for damage to your own car) you'd better hope it's obviously the other guy's fault.

If there's an injury or spectacular wreck, or an important person involved, somebody might get a ticket.  A death results in a real investigation, with the road blocked off until they've measured and photographed and sniffed and sampled everything they care about.
 
2012-11-19 10:24:36 AM  

RsquaredW: They've had five collisions since the HOT lanes opened on Saturday, all of which were people who got caught going onto the lanes and trying to swerve out. Brilliant signage, obviously.


DC is pretty famous for putting direction signs AFTER its too late to change your mind. Especially in the tunnels. Its purely built for locals.
 
2012-11-19 10:26:55 AM  
So basically, I should be glad that I visited the DC/NoVa area back in June, because there's no way on God's grey earth I'd ever want to deal with this clusterfark in what's left of my lifetime?
 
2012-11-19 10:28:06 AM  

MindStalker: RsquaredW: They've had five collisions since the HOT lanes opened on Saturday, all of which were people who got caught going onto the lanes and trying to swerve out. Brilliant signage, obviously.

DC is pretty famous for putting direction signs AFTER its too late to change your mind. Especially in the tunnels. Its purely built for locals.


I love that one on 395 N to Mass Ave (off the SESW Freeway). Literally sits where a gap in the tunnel prevents you from seeing the sign that tells you where to go to get to "NY Ave N" and "Mass Ave" until after the divide has split. Not just a solid white line, there's divider there.
 
2012-11-19 10:32:29 AM  

nelsonal: wambu: Hey NOVA FARKers!

When I used to visit DC, I parked in the old Perpetual Savings Bank parking lot near the yellow line just off the beltway (near Geo. Washinton's Masonic lodge). It's been years, so that option is probably no longer available. I'm planning a trip to visit some museums. Where are some good parking lots in NOVA for those of us just visiting that are near a Metro station? I don't mind paying to park, but free is always better.

I usually just park in the Metro lots, they're cheap and free on weekends. You pretty much need a smart trip card for the metro these days anyway.


I think it's an extra $.75 per trip if yo use the paper farecard.

You might be able to park in the little Pentagon parking lot across from the Macy's at Pentagon City. It's open to the public for free after 5PM and on weekends. Very short walk to Pentagon City Metro. Otherwise, I agree, park at a Metro lot.
 
2012-11-19 10:33:17 AM  

Minerva8918: Hack Patooey: The cause of the crash has not been determined but Virginia State Police are urging drivers to be careful and not back up if they mistakenly enter the Express Lanes.

I see it all the time, but who the fark thinks its OK to back up on the highway because you screwed up an exit?

Morans of the DC variety.


MORAN (moran)
A member of the warrior group of the Masai people of East Africa, which comprises the younger unmarried males.
Origin: Masai


MORON (moron)
Informal
A stupid person: We can't let these thoughtless morons get away with mindless vandalism every weekend.
Origin: early 20th century (as a medical term denoting an adult with a mental age of about 8-12): from Greek mron, neuter of mros 'foolish'
 
2012-11-19 10:34:39 AM  

gochuck: I laugh at the people who live out in the burbs. If you work in DC, live in DC (especially if you don't have kids, no excuse then).


I agree in principle, but that is a non-starter if you're a firearm owner. Even after Heller v. DC came down the process to legally get and register a handgun in the District is completely ridiculous. This is not a problem for criminal gangs, as I've seen there, but just the law-abiding.

/Wouldn't affect me if I lived there
 
2012-11-19 10:35:30 AM  

gochuck: I laugh at the people who live out in the burbs. If you work in DC, live in DC (especially if you don't have kids, no excuse then).


We laugh at you and your living in tiny boxes with ridiculously high rents. I'll stick with the nice big house, yard, with a mortgage less than DC rent, and lower taxes.

/takes the VRE
//been delayed twice in three years
///biggest problem is the METRO transfer.
 
2012-11-19 10:35:40 AM  

Dreyelle: MORAN (moran)


You've been here since 2009; do catch up.
 
2012-11-19 10:35:47 AM  
damn. i have to drive to fredericksburg for thanksgiving. the beltway was painful enough already.
 
2012-11-19 10:35:54 AM  

DeathCipris: brigid_fitch: Hack Patooey: The cause of the crash has not been determined but Virginia State Police are urging drivers to be careful and not back up if they mistakenly enter the Express Lanes.

I see it all the time, but who the fark thinks its OK to back up on the highway because you screwed up an exit?

Not only do I see this all the time, some farkwit BACKED INTO ME once! Going onto an entrance ramp and the car started giving me issues--wouldn't accelerate right, almost every idiot light on the dash starts flashing. Didn't want to pull onto a busy highway when she's acting up, so I pulled onto the shoulder & called AAA. As I'm waiting, a white commercial pickup truck passes me, goes onto the shoulder, and starts backing up. I figure he's being a good Samaritan and wants to see if he can help. Except that he's not slowing down. Hit the horn but the car's turned off--no horn. By the time I turn on the ignition to try the horn again or maybe try to get the hell out of the way, the asshole slams right into me. Bumper crumples, trailer hitch on the back of the truck punctures the radiator. When he tries to pull forward, he nearly rips the radiator out of the engine. No injuries, thankfully, just utter incredulity.

Luckily, the 2 guys he was with told the cops the truth. I don't think anyone, myself included, would EVER believe that somebody got backed into on the shoulder of a busy highway ramp. But it happened.

/CSB
//VW's apparently have a "limp-home" mode (Emergency Running Mode). That's what kicked in that day. Never experienced it before.

Ahh, the glories of VW ownership. Sounds like you own a GTI or a GLI, probably late 2007 - 2010?

/We call it "Christmas tree-ing."
//It farking sucks.
///DSG FTL


I currently have a Cadillac SRX (bought used, can't afford anywhere new) and it has this 'feature' as well. MAF sensor not reading quite right? get used to driving at 3mph. Yay. What? Car got wet? F U.

I gave up american made cars 15-ish years ago and never had a problem. Always liked the look of these and bit the bullet. Well the bullet bit back. And you can say "bought someone else's problems" until you look at the caddy forums and see new or old, they all have some pretty impressive issues.

Cadillac, standard of the world. Yea...the third world.
 
2012-11-19 10:36:36 AM  

Dreyelle: Minerva8918: Hack Patooey: The cause of the crash has not been determined but Virginia State Police are urging drivers to be careful and not back up if they mistakenly enter the Express Lanes.

I see it all the time, but who the fark thinks its OK to back up on the highway because you screwed up an exit?

Morans of the DC variety.

MORAN (moran)
A member of the warrior group of the Masai people of East Africa, which comprises the younger unmarried males.
Origin: Masai


MORON (moron)
Informal
A stupid person: We can't let these thoughtless morons get away with mindless vandalism every weekend.
Origin: early 20th century (as a medical term denoting an adult with a mental age of about 8-12): from Greek mron, neuter of mros 'foolish'


Welcometofark.jpg

/Get a brain morans
 
2012-11-19 10:39:49 AM  

sodomizer: (A)

Drivers: the problem is the roads!

(B)

Roads: the problem is the drivers!

(If you pick A, you're liberal. If you pick B, you're conservative.)


c) Kill your sister, so you can see the guy/girl again!
 
2012-11-19 10:40:34 AM  

Dreyelle: Minerva8918: Hack Patooey: The cause of the crash has not been determined but Virginia State Police are urging drivers to be careful and not back up if they mistakenly enter the Express Lanes.

I see it all the time, but who the fark thinks its OK to back up on the highway because you screwed up an exit?

Morans of the DC variety.

MORAN (moran)
A member of the warrior group of the Masai people of East Africa, which comprises the younger unmarried males.
Origin: Masai


MORON (moron)
Informal
A stupid person: We can't let these thoughtless morons get away with mindless vandalism every weekend.
Origin: early 20th century (as a medical term denoting an adult with a mental age of about 8-12): from Greek mron, neuter of mros 'foolish'


4.bp.blogspot.com
Obscure?
 
2012-11-19 10:40:55 AM  
And work wonders why I dont want to transfer to any of our DC/VA offices. Commuted there for years and it was not worth the hassle. Wait til the snow hits the hot lanes then you will see the fun. What a waste of money, the best thing you can do is avoid Tysons corner all together.
 
2012-11-19 10:43:22 AM  

Dreyelle: Minerva8918: Hack Patooey: The cause of the crash has not been determined but Virginia State Police are urging drivers to be careful and not back up if they mistakenly enter the Express Lanes.

I see it all the time, but who the fark thinks its OK to back up on the highway because you screwed up an exit?

Morans of the DC variety.

MORAN (moran)
A member of the warrior group of the Masai people of East Africa, which comprises the younger unmarried males.
Origin: Masai


MORON (moron)
Informal
A stupid person: We can't let these thoughtless morons get away with mindless vandalism every weekend.
Origin: early 20th century (as a medical term denoting an adult with a mental age of about 8-12): from Greek mron, neuter of mros 'foolish'


What a Northern Virginia Moran might look like.
 
2012-11-19 10:43:29 AM  

groppet: And work wonders why I dont want to transfer to any of our DC/VA offices. Commuted there for years and it was not worth the hassle. Wait til the snow hits the hot lanes then you will see the fun. What a waste of money, the best thing you can do is avoid Tysons corner all together.


Quoted for truthiness.
 
2012-11-19 10:44:09 AM  
I think it's BS that they take public road space, publicly maintained roads and tell you that you can't use them, even though you're paying your taxes.
For them to be fair and legal, they need to create their own space that does not infringe on the public roadways, fund them privately, maintain them privately, and charge whatever the usage market will bear for use.
They did the same thing here in Utah. They took one of our lanes away, turned it into a (miserable faliure of an) HOV lane and charge for it's use unless you're carpooling or have paid for the Express (whatever the hell they're calling it).
It's a complete joke.
 
2012-11-19 10:44:51 AM  

kokomo61: All EZ-pass users have also received snail mail explaining IN DETAIL what's happening, how to handle it, and what you need to do in case you want an HOV-capable EZ-pass.


WTH is an "HOV-capable" EZ-pass?? Why doesn't a standard EZ-pass work as-is? C'mon Virginia, this doesn't need to be complicated.
 
2012-11-19 10:45:16 AM  

Spade: gochuck: I laugh at the people who live out in the burbs. If you work in DC, live in DC (especially if you don't have kids, no excuse then).

We laugh at you and your living in tiny boxes with ridiculously high rents. I'll stick with the nice big house, yard, with a mortgage less than DC rent, and lower taxes.

/takes the VRE
//been delayed twice in three years
///biggest problem is the METRO transfer.


Bullshiat. I took the VRE, it's delayed at least once a month, even more if there's any snow, rain, or Amtrak/CSX feels like being a dick.
 
2012-11-19 10:46:12 AM  

You Are All Sheep: DeathCipris:

/CSB
//VW's apparently have a "limp-home" mode (Emergency Running Mode). That's what kicked in that day. Never experienced it before.

Ahh, the glories of VW ownership. Sounds like you own a GTI or a GLI, probably late 2007 - 2010?

/We call it "Christmas tree-ing."
//It farking sucks.
///DSG FTL

I currently have a Cadillac SRX (bought used, can't afford anywhere new) and it has this 'feature' as well. MAF sensor not reading quite right? get used to driving at 3mph. Yay. What? Car got wet? F U.

I gave up american made cars ...


Thank you for the info! I am getting rid of my problem child of a 06' GLI. I am with you too. I don't really have the best of confidence when it comes to "'Murican" cars (read as no confidence). I am currently looking into a new Hyundai. Can't beat that factory 100K miles powertrain warranty!
 
2012-11-19 10:46:27 AM  
I have driven in and around the MD/DC/VA area all of my life. The DC beltway is full of crazies 24/7.
I have been told that the DC beltway is one of the worst places to drive in the country.
 
2012-11-19 10:46:49 AM  
www.examiner.com
 
2012-11-19 10:50:16 AM  

computerguyUT: I think it's BS that they take public road space, publicly maintained roads and tell you that you can't use them, even though you're paying your taxes.
For them to be fair and legal, they need to create their own space that does not infringe on the public roadways, fund them privately, maintain them privately, and charge whatever the usage market will bear for use.
They did the same thing here in Utah. They took one of our lanes away, turned it into a (miserable faliure of an) HOV lane and charge for it's use unless you're carpooling or have paid for the Express (whatever the hell they're calling it).
It's a complete joke.


I can't say with 100% certainty that this is true along the entire length of the project, but these HOT lanes around the VA part of the Beltway did not reduce (or otherwise "take away from") the existing highway (unless you count dealing with the huge mess while they were under construction.)

I actually am optimisitic that eventually these lanes will help reduce the clusterfark of traffic that was there before, but everytime part of the highway system around here gets "fixed" it just pushes the bottleneck somewhere else a couple miles away.
 
2012-11-19 10:53:18 AM  

computerguyUT: I think it's BS that they take public road space, publicly maintained roads and tell you that you can't use them, even though you're paying your taxes.
For them to be fair and legal, they need to create their own space that does not infringe on the public roadways, fund them privately, maintain them privately, and charge whatever the usage market will bear for use.
They did the same thing here in Utah. They took one of our lanes away, turned it into a (miserable faliure of an) HOV lane and charge for it's use unless you're carpooling or have paid for the Express (whatever the hell they're calling it).
It's a complete joke.


These were entirely privately funded, which is why they're toll rather than just HOV lanes. State gets the road after 99 years.
 
2012-11-19 10:54:51 AM  
The way the "dynamic toll" system is set up for these toll lanes, the SLOWER traffic moves in them, the more the trip costs you. Call me a cynic, but I would not be shocked to find 10 years from now that the company that built the lanes is found to hire people to have accidents, breakdowns etc while using their lanes . and why not? If people finally get fed up and stop using the lanes, or if VA ever adds other roads to relieve that congestion, thier contract with the state says the state will gurantee their profits if user revenue falls below certain benchmarks


Free enterprise solution, my ass. The lanes are really a Tax on every NOVA driver from an adminstration that doesn't have the balls to raise taxes in the normal way because the Gov wants to run for president one day
 
2012-11-19 10:55:02 AM  

nelsonal: I usually just park in the Metro lots, they're cheap and free on weekends.


I always visit during the week and the lots were typically full.
 
2012-11-19 10:57:12 AM  

This text is now purple: genepool lifeboat: I actually know people that will get on an expressway, even if there is a more direct route, simply because it is the only way they know how to get anywhere.

Expressway routes can be shorter in time versus land routes which are shorter in distance.


This^. I can take the local roads from my house to the business district in Toms River, NJ or jump on the Garden State Parkway for one exit and save myself 10 minutes.
 
2012-11-19 10:57:24 AM  
I stayed at my last job for nearly two more years after the CEO retired and was replaced by a bipolar, screaming harpy with short term memory loss because it allowed me a reverse Metro commute from DC to MD. That's how much I didn't want to drive on the beltway.
 
2012-11-19 10:57:35 AM  

Minerva8918: Hack Patooey: The cause of the crash has not been determined but Virginia State Police are urging drivers to be careful and not back up if they mistakenly enter the Express Lanes.

I see it all the time, but who the fark thinks its OK to back up on the highway because you screwed up an exit?

Morans of the DC variety.


It's catching on here in MO too and I hate it with a fiery passion.
 
2012-11-19 10:57:47 AM  

AngryJailhouseFistfark: They rigged up a ramp where anyone can get on the thing and only once you're committed do you realize that there's no toll-taker option. You either have the EZ-Pass radio transponder or you don't. The sign informing you "EZ-Pass Required" is little more than the sign you might have in your neighborhood reading, "Cloaca Lane" or "Mutton Road".

And once you're in, there's no way out NOR do you have any idea what fate awaits you if you don't pay the toll. Could be the Drone comes out of the Pentagon and Hellfire's your illicit motoring ass. Could be the whole thing locks up like those giant steel plates that come up out of the ground around the Capitol Building and other super-secure locations around here. Rather than risk such a fate, the only alternative is to back your shiat on up the ramp to freedom and hope your friendly fellow motorists will take sympathy on you.

Turns out it's a minor fine if you don't have the EZ-Pass, something like $12.50 plus a $1.50 handling fee. They should make the EZ-Pass Required sign a GIANT farking billboard, screaming at you, some radio message broadcasting at 10 Million Megawatts across the entire radio spectrum so that no matter what you're tuned to it'll scream "YOU MUST HAVE AN EZ-PASS OR THE VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION WILL HOLD YOU DOWN AND ADMINISTER AN ANGRY JAILHOUSE FISTFARK!" or some such warning.


It is well signed:

www.tagsva.org

MindStalker: RsquaredW: They've had five collisions since the HOT lanes opened on Saturday, all of which were people who got caught going onto the lanes and trying to swerve out. Brilliant signage, obviously.

DC is pretty famous for putting direction signs AFTER its too late to change your mind. Especially in the tunnels. Its purely built for locals.


True. I still fark this one up regularly.

ImpendingCynic: kokomo61: All EZ-pass users have also received snail mail explaining IN DETAIL what's happening, how to handle it, and what you need to do in case you want an HOV-capable EZ-pass.

WTH is an "HOV-capable" EZ-pass?? Why doesn't a standard EZ-pass work as-is? C'mon Virginia, this doesn't need to be complicated.


connection.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com

This thing. You switch to to "HOV ON" if you have 3 people in your car, then you don't get charged the toll. It's not complicated.

I saw an 18 wheeler pulled over on the HOT lanes this morning despite all the electronic signs alternating something to the effect of "2 axles only".

My disappointment: No access TO the HOT lanes from the 95/395 HOV lanes, only the other way around. Stupid.
 
2012-11-19 10:58:40 AM  

Sunrazor: sodomizer: (A)

Drivers: the problem is the roads!

(B)

Roads: the problem is the drivers!

(If you pick A, you're liberal. If you pick B, you're conservative.)

c) Kill your sister, so you can see the guy/girl again!


if you're a 'c' you'll end up like me!

/c, the heavenly (and fark) option!
 
2012-11-19 11:06:30 AM  

freewill: You Are All Sheep: "Drivers using the HOT lanes will find that they have variable tolls, meaning the fees will change depending on how much traffic is on the road."

whatwhat? sounds like some pretty easy number manipulation can be had there.

Yeah, that sounds like bullshiat. Assuming that means what it sounds like it means, you know, if the fee isn't predictable in advance, drivers won't be able to respond to it and it will be an ineffective traffic control. At that point, it's a pure cash grab.


Well, HOT lanes aren't called "Lexus Lanes" for nothing, you know. Basically, as the traffic increases in the free lanes, the price goes up in the Lexus lane as well. The tolls are measuring how much you value your travel time; do you want to sit in traffic for 30 minutes, or get to where you want to go in 10 but pay a $5 fee for that convenience? If the traffic volume goes down, so does the toll cost.

You're paying for the luxury of driving around the plebes stuck in the free lanes, hence the term "Lexus Lanes".
 
2012-11-19 11:06:58 AM  
Drove over 495 this morning on my way to work...the regular lanes were moving faster than the HOT lanes. Suckers.
 
2012-11-19 11:10:03 AM  

ImpendingCynic: WTH is an "HOV-capable" EZ-pass?? Why doesn't a standard EZ-pass work as-is? C'mon Virginia, this doesn't need to be complicated.


No, this is Metro DC and it needs to be as complex and incomprehensible as possible. I came here from California. When I was a kid they had a toll-free lane crossing the Oakland-San Francisco Bay Bridge. It was called a "Carpool Lane". People know what carpool means. It means more than one person in the car. So I move to The Northern Virginia and discover some peculiar thing called an "HOV" lane. Why, whatever could that be? Is it short for "Hovercraft"? Then I see another sign with much smaller print, nearly unreadable at freeway speeds which says that HOV stands for High Occupancy Vehicle. OK. Well, the sedan holds five. The ex-wife's minivan held seven. I'd say those are high occupancy for a motor vehicle. Does that mean they must be filled to capacity? Not so sure. Oh, here it is, a number 2 or a number 3, that must indicate how many people must be in the car, empty seats are OK.

This is Metro DC. It is a place of cults and cults of cults. A place of secret access, of passwords and back rooms. It is a culture of exclusion and rigid hierarchy, where systems and structures that would be simple and commonplace anywhere else are bound up in jargon and codes and hoops through which one must jump in order to prove worthy to be in The Club.
 
2012-11-19 11:10:12 AM  
living in Loudoun county (Leesburg) and working about 35 Mi away in downtown DC, I'd say the best thing about living in my country is the huge, coach-like commuter buses that pick up at a parking lot about 3 mi from my house and get me to a block from my work in about 45 min. 45 min that I can sleep, read, whatever else the fark I want to do. Sure its $7 each way, but the farking tolls would cost me that much to drive, to say nothing of gas or parking.
 
2012-11-19 11:12:00 AM  

wingnut396: More importantly, VW horns only work when the ignition is on?


Yeah. Between my husband and me, we've owned a 99 Cabrio, 01 Jetta, and an 06 Jetta. Horns don't work if the engine's off. But the trade-off is that you can charge stuff in your car while it's off, so I'll take that.

DeathCipris: Ahh, the glories of VW ownership. Sounds like you own a GTI or a GLI, probably late 2007 - 2010?


See above--06 Jetta. It's only gone into ERM one other time--during a farking monsoon in MD 2 years ago. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. The first time, it happened out of the blue and the weather was dry but well below freezing. The mechanic just had to reset the computer--couldn't detect any issue. The second time, I was meeting friends for the weekend so just let it sit for 2 days. I guess something had gotten wet during the drive because it was fine when I turned it back on.
 
2012-11-19 11:14:11 AM  

wambu: Hey NOVA FARKers!

When I used to visit DC, I parked in the old Perpetual Savings Bank parking lot near the yellow line just off the beltway (near Geo. Washinton's Masonic lodge). It's been years, so that option is probably no longer available. I'm planning a trip to visit some museums. Where are some good parking lots in NOVA for those of us just visiting that are near a Metro station? I don't mind paying to park, but free is always better.


You can park in the garage at Springfield Mall for free and walk over to the Franconia/Springfield metro station. Bring a gun.
 
2012-11-19 11:15:48 AM  
I never understood why I-95 was never run all the way through DC like it was supposed to be. It's obvious the Beltway can't handle the traffic.
 
2012-11-19 11:17:28 AM  

AngryJailhouseFistfark: This is Metro DC. It is a place of cults and cults of cults. A place of secret access, of passwords and back rooms. It is a culture of exclusion and rigid hierarchy, where systems and structures that would be simple and commonplace anywhere else are bound up in jargon and codes and hoops through which one must jump in order to prove worthy to be in The Club.


Prime example: Slugging.
 
2012-11-19 11:17:40 AM  
Appropriate: Link

//hot love highway
 
2012-11-19 11:17:47 AM  
chrislejarzar.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-11-19 11:19:37 AM  

oakleym82: Well Signed and the image of the new HOV Switchy EZ-Pass.



I quit using the EZPass when I quit working outside the Beltway so my drives from my home don't require it. I was not aware they made the gizmo switchy like that. It's super. How many people will plow into the toll booth while their reaching up to flick the switch instead of paying attention to the road, I wonders.

As for signage, the only one I saw was on the ramp at Route 29 in Merrifield. The "EZPass Required" sign on that onramp was smaller than all the rest of the signs and it looked like an afterthought.
 
2012-11-19 11:21:30 AM  

Bendal: Well, HOT lanes aren't called "Lexus Lanes" for nothing, you know. Basically, as the traffic increases in the free lanes, the price goes up in the Lexus lane as well. The tolls are measuring how much you value your travel time; do you want to sit in traffic for 30 minutes, or get to where you want to go in 10 but pay a $5 fee for that convenience? If the traffic volume goes down, so does the toll cost.

You're paying for the luxury of driving around the plebes stuck in the free lanes, hence the term "Lexus Lanes".


I get it now. I misunderstood what was being implied there.

I'm not sure if it makes me feel better about it, but at least I feel differently.
 
2012-11-19 11:22:02 AM  

brigid_fitch: wingnut396: More importantly, VW horns only work when the ignition is on?

Yeah. Between my husband and me, we've owned a 99 Cabrio, 01 Jetta, and an 06 Jetta. Horns don't work if the engine's off. But the trade-off is that you can charge stuff in your car while it's off, so I'll take that.

DeathCipris: Ahh, the glories of VW ownership. Sounds like you own a GTI or a GLI, probably late 2007 - 2010?

See above--06 Jetta. It's only gone into ERM one other time--during a farking monsoon in MD 2 years ago. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. The first time, it happened out of the blue and the weather was dry but well below freezing. The mechanic just had to reset the computer--couldn't detect any issue. The second time, I was meeting friends for the weekend so just let it sit for 2 days. I guess something had gotten wet during the drive because it was fine when I turned it back on.


Interesting. Historically, there has been several recalls dealing with the DSG system (only installed on NEW Beetles (2011 and later), GTI (2006 and later), and GLI (2006 and later), and a few Audi models if I recall correctly). The recalls were for bad mechatronics unit (seriously...that's what they call it) and bad temperature sensors for the DGS system. There are a couple of TSB's that require a reflash of the DSG system too.
 
2012-11-19 11:28:13 AM  
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-11-19 11:34:02 AM  
This picture was on the front page of the Gwinnett Daily Post the day Atlanta's HOT lanes opened. The headline was touting the great success of the new lanes (still trying to find a link to the original article.

scni.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com
 
2012-11-19 11:34:34 AM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: I never understood why I-95 was never run all the way through DC like it was supposed to be. It's obvious the Beltway can't handle the traffic.


It does. It's just called 395 and 295 (if you do the penns ave or 11th st juke).
 
2012-11-19 11:36:16 AM  
The whole idea of the HOT lanes pisses me off. We have a huge traffic problem here in the Washington DC metro area, so what do our politicians do? They solve the problem - but only for themselves and their friends who can afford it. Not everyone can afford hundreds more dollars a month so they can get to work in a reasonable amount of time, and they haven't even bothered to attempt to fix the sources of the traffic problems...

They should have gotten rid of the HOV lanes (which are counter-productive), improved the interchange with Dulles Toll road and improved the interchange with I-66... as well as using the land they used for the stupid HOT lanes for more capacity on 495.

But that way someone's buddy wouldn't get the lucrative construction and operation contracts for pricey toll roads...
 
2012-11-19 11:41:11 AM  
we could have trains and buses instead

/ if 'certain segments of the population' weren't so consistently violent and rapey
 
2012-11-19 11:42:06 AM  
Clusterfark.

Clusterfark clusterfark clusterfark... as the entire I-95/395/495/66 stretch seems to be once you get past Stafford.
 
2012-11-19 11:43:49 AM  

mongbiohazard: The whole idea of the HOT lanes pisses me off. We have a huge traffic problem here in the Washington DC metro area, so what do our politicians do? They solve the problem - but only for themselves and their friends who can afford it. Not everyone can afford hundreds more dollars a month so they can get to work in a reasonable amount of time, and they haven't even bothered to attempt to fix the sources of the traffic problems...

They should have gotten rid of the HOV lanes (which are counter-productive), improved the interchange with Dulles Toll road and improved the interchange with I-66... as well as using the land they used for the stupid HOT lanes for more capacity on 495.

But that way someone's buddy wouldn't get the lucrative construction and operation contracts for pricey toll roads...


How is providing a positive incentive for people to reduce the total number of cars on the road (by carpooling together) counter productive? It seems like the opposite of that to me, whatever you want to call that...counter-counter-productive?
 
2012-11-19 11:44:38 AM  

hiker9999: gochuck: I laugh at the people who live out in the burbs. If you work in DC, live in DC (especially if you don't have kids, no excuse then).

Perhaps we don't want to live in a city whose "leadership" is nearly constantly under criminal investigation?

Perhaps we don't want to live in a city where Marion frakking Barry is seen as some kind of bizarre folk hero?


Maybe everyone should move into his tenement. He doesn't seem to mind the overcrowding.
 
2012-11-19 11:49:10 AM  

squidgod2000: You can park in the garage at Springfield Mall for free and walk over to the Franconia/Springfield metro station. Bring a gun.


images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com
 
2012-11-19 11:51:53 AM  

oakleym82: This thing. You switch to to "HOV ON" if you have 3 people in your car, then you don't get charged the toll. It's not complicated.


No, it is complicated. It requires the driver to fiddle with a device while rounding a corner going 70 mph and making a decision of whether or not to use a toll lane. None of this should be necessary.

Either we need more capacity in general, or we need to enforce carpooling on the beltway. This does neither of those things. It simply generates revenue for the highway authority while allowing a fraction of the commuters to enjoy exclusive access to roads built with public funds. Total bullshiat.
 
2012-11-19 11:54:32 AM  

Minerva8918: Hack Patooey: The cause of the crash has not been determined but Virginia State Police are urging drivers to be careful and not back up if they mistakenly enter the Express Lanes.

I see it all the time, but who the fark thinks its OK to back up on the highway because you screwed up an exit?

Morans of the DC variety.


images.politico.com
I'm sure a lot of it is his fault.
 
2012-11-19 12:00:22 PM  
Is it just me, or do the lines on the road look like they were painted by a drunk marmot?
 
2012-11-19 12:03:41 PM  

nelsonal: Dreyelle: Minerva8918: Hack Patooey: The cause of the crash has not been determined but Virginia State Police are urging drivers to be careful and not back up if they mistakenly enter the Express Lanes.

I see it all the time, but who the fark thinks its OK to back up on the highway because you screwed up an exit?

Morans of the DC variety.

MORAN (moran)
A member of the warrior group of the Masai people of East Africa, which comprises the younger unmarried males.
Origin: Masai


MORON (moron)
Informal
A stupid person: We can't let these thoughtless morons get away with mindless vandalism every weekend.
Origin: early 20th century (as a medical term denoting an adult with a mental age of about 8-12): from Greek mron, neuter of mros 'foolish'

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 313x400]
Obscure?


Must be some new blood in here. :)
 
2012-11-19 12:32:08 PM  

nickerj1: The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: I never understood why I-95 was never run all the way through DC like it was supposed to be. It's obvious the Beltway can't handle the traffic.

It does. It's just called 395 and 295 (if you do the penns ave or 11th st juke).


And the reason why the Beltway was created in the first place was so people wouldnt have to drive through DC. They had a documentary about the Beltway on PBS a few months back and people acted like going into VA/MD thorugh DC would be like driving 1000 miles out of the way. And there was a traffic jam day one on the beltway. I just wish every other road in VA wasent named Lee.
 
2012-11-19 12:35:16 PM  

freewill: Bendal: Well, HOT lanes aren't called "Lexus Lanes" for nothing, you know. Basically, as the traffic increases in the free lanes, the price goes up in the Lexus lane as well. The tolls are measuring how much you value your travel time; do you want to sit in traffic for 30 minutes, or get to where you want to go in 10 but pay a $5 fee for that convenience? If the traffic volume goes down, so does the toll cost.

You're paying for the luxury of driving around the plebes stuck in the free lanes, hence the term "Lexus Lanes".

I get it now. I misunderstood what was being implied there.

I'm not sure if it makes me feel better about it, but at least I feel differently.


Not quite right. Whenver the average speed in to the lanes drops below 45 MPH the toll goes UP, obstensibly to discourage people from using them so as to reduce volume and restore speed.
 
2012-11-19 12:36:44 PM  

ManRay: Atlanta put in HOT lanes a few months ago.

(one of the) Biggest wastes of transportation money in the region. And that is saying something.
.



blogs.amctv.com 

/restricted to HOV-3, motorcycles, and horses
 
2012-11-19 12:37:38 PM  

my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food: mongbiohazard: The whole idea of the HOT lanes pisses me off. We have a huge traffic problem here in the Washington DC metro area, so what do our politicians do? They solve the problem - but only for themselves and their friends who can afford it. Not everyone can afford hundreds more dollars a month so they can get to work in a reasonable amount of time, and they haven't even bothered to attempt to fix the sources of the traffic problems...

They should have gotten rid of the HOV lanes (which are counter-productive), improved the interchange with Dulles Toll road and improved the interchange with I-66... as well as using the land they used for the stupid HOT lanes for more capacity on 495.

But that way someone's buddy wouldn't get the lucrative construction and operation contracts for pricey toll roads...

How is providing a positive incentive for people to reduce the total number of cars on the road (by carpooling together) counter productive? It seems like the opposite of that to me, whatever you want to call that...counter-counter-productive?


HOV lanes end up being 25% of the road surface but only carrying around 1%-3% of the traffic. Hence they are counter-productive... They reduce road capacity when it's needed the most which increases traffic and pollution for everyone.

The "incentive" has been around for many years now and it simply does not work. The fact of the matter is that the few people who can carpool already will. Especially in this area, where people drive to so many different places for work, chances are low you'll just happen to be lucky enough to be going to the same place at the same time as your neighbor.

There are many cases around the country where road crews have forgotten to repaint HOV lanes when doing road work and traffic drastically reduces until they put the HOV markings back. It's just pure math... so much road surface being reserved for so little traffic = more traffic and more pollution. HOV lanes are harmful wishful thinking put in to action.
 
2012-11-19 12:58:50 PM  

wambu: Hey NOVA FARKers!

When I used to visit DC, I parked in the old Perpetual Savings Bank parking lot near the yellow line just off the beltway (near Geo. Washinton's Masonic lodge). It's been years, so that option is probably no longer available. I'm planning a trip to visit some museums. Where are some good parking lots in NOVA for those of us just visiting that are near a Metro station? I don't mind paying to park, but free is always better.


Park at the Springfield/Franconia station in Springfield, or the Huntington ave station in Alexandria. Both are free on the weekend, and are easier than finding parking during the weekdays.
 
2012-11-19 01:06:53 PM  

mongbiohazard: my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food: mongbiohazard: The whole idea of the HOT lanes pisses me off. We have a huge traffic problem here in the Washington DC metro area, so what do our politicians do? They solve the problem - but only for themselves and their friends who can afford it. Not everyone can afford hundreds more dollars a month so they can get to work in a reasonable amount of time, and they haven't even bothered to attempt to fix the sources of the traffic problems...

They should have gotten rid of the HOV lanes (which are counter-productive), improved the interchange with Dulles Toll road and improved the interchange with I-66... as well as using the land they used for the stupid HOT lanes for more capacity on 495.

But that way someone's buddy wouldn't get the lucrative construction and operation contracts for pricey toll roads...

How is providing a positive incentive for people to reduce the total number of cars on the road (by carpooling together) counter productive? It seems like the opposite of that to me, whatever you want to call that...counter-counter-productive?

HOV lanes end up being 25% of the road surface but only carrying around 1%-3% of the traffic. Hence they are counter-productive... They reduce road capacity when it's needed the most which increases traffic and pollution for everyone.

The "incentive" has been around for many years now and it simply does not work. The fact of the matter is that the few people who can carpool already will. Especially in this area, where people drive to so many different places for work, chances are low you'll just happen to be lucky enough to be going to the same place at the same time as your neighbor.

There are many cases around the country where road crews have forgotten to repaint HOV lanes when doing road work and traffic drastically reduces until they put the HOV markings back. It's just pure math... so much road surface being reserved for so little traffic = more traffic and more pollution. HOV ...


Have you ever been on the stretch of I-95 between Fredericksburg and DC? Those HOV lanes are absolutely packed with people using them. Granted, they only enforce the HOV restrictions during rush hour, so that helps address the negatives you listed significantly...but really, the worst part of the HOV lanes in that stretch of I-95 is that they don't go far enough south! Where the lanes merge back together is almost always backed up. Sure, they are extending them down to Aquia/Garrisonville, which will address a lot of it, but they needed to stretch all the way down to teh Rappahannock AT LEAST (once you pass Rt. 17 a lot of traffic dies down). If money was no object it would be even better if they could extend them across the river past Rt-3, but bridges cost a lot...

And just thinking about it, you say that HOV lanes account for 1-3% of traffic, but that is assuming all cars have 1 person. If there is a bus with 30 people on it that is essentially removing 29 other cars from the road.

Granted, not all HOV lanes work as intended, and there is definitely some idealism behind the concept (as you stated, there are a lot of practical reasons NOT to carpool for most people), but I think it is a better long-term solution than just widening every available road to the maximum limits available with the existing real-estate. Basically, I like the concept of making more efficient use of the road-space available instead of just making MORE road-space until we run out and have to just live with it.
 
2012-11-19 01:14:40 PM  

gochuck: I laugh at the people who live out in the burbs. If you work in DC, live in DC (especially if you don't have kids, no excuse then).


My excuse is not wanting to pay $3k/month for a one bedroom. If you have a problem with that, take it up with management.

/management is my penis
 
2012-11-19 01:21:14 PM  
Question:

Did they pave in new lanes for the HOT lanes or did they re-stripe existing lanes?

Atlanta just converted existing HOV lanes to HOT lanes. The project was destined for failure from the start. They solution to "we have a traffic problem" was to lower the lane capacity (at great expense) and charge people for the privilege of using the HOV lane. After the lanes were built it took all of 3 days for the Governor to lower the pricing structure to encourage people to use the lanes since nobody was driving in them. There were several weeks of bigger than normal traffic jams right after the HOT opening.
 
2012-11-19 01:25:12 PM  

my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food: Have you ever been on the stretch of I-95 between Fredericksburg and DC? Those HOV lanes are absolutely packed with people using them. Granted, they only enforce the HOV restrictions during rush hour, so that helps address the negatives you listed significantly...but really, the worst part of the HOV lanes in that stretch of I-95 is that they don't go far enough south! Where the lanes merge back together is almost always backed up. Sure, they are extending them down to Aquia/Garrisonville, which will address a lot of it, but they needed to stretch all the way down to teh Rappahannock AT LEAST (once you pass Rt. 17 a lot of traffic dies down). If money was no object it would be even better if they could extend them across the river past Rt-3, but bridges cost a lot...


Actually, that is the plan... to extend HOT lanes all the way down to Massaponax.

However, read what I just said... HOT lanes, not HOV, so you'll be paying for the privilege.

But, yeah, the first leg of the plan is extending them down to the 143 within the next three years.
 
2012-11-19 01:27:30 PM  

my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food: mongbiohazard: my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food: mongbiohazard: The whole idea of the HOT lanes pisses me off. We have a huge traffic problem here in the Washington DC metro area, so what do our politicians do? They solve the problem - but only for themselves and their friends who can afford it. Not everyone can afford hundreds more dollars a month so they can get to work in a reasonable amount of time, and they haven't even bothered to attempt to fix the sources of the traffic problems...

They should have gotten rid of the HOV lanes (which are counter-productive), improved the interchange with Dulles Toll road and improved the interchange with I-66... as well as using the land they used for the stupid HOT lanes for more capacity on 495.

But that way someone's buddy wouldn't get the lucrative construction and operation contracts for pricey toll roads...

How is providing a positive incentive for people to reduce the total number of cars on the road (by carpooling together) counter productive? It seems like the opposite of that to me, whatever you want to call that...counter-counter-productive?

HOV lanes end up being 25% of the road surface but only carrying around 1%-3% of the traffic. Hence they are counter-productive... They reduce road capacity when it's needed the most which increases traffic and pollution for everyone.

The "incentive" has been around for many years now and it simply does not work. The fact of the matter is that the few people who can carpool already will. Especially in this area, where people drive to so many different places for work, chances are low you'll just happen to be lucky enough to be going to the same place at the same time as your neighbor.

There are many cases around the country where road crews have forgotten to repaint HOV lanes when doing road work and traffic drastically reduces until they put the HOV markings back. It's just pure math... so much road surface being reserved for so little traffic = more traffic and more ...


For what it's worth, the plan is there to extend the lanes to just past the curve at US 1/17 Massaponax Exit 126. The funding just isn't there at the current time. However, the state did go ahead and do the environmental impact studies for that plan when they were doing the one for the current extension southward. I suspect it won't be long after the extension to Exit 143 is completed before they clamor for the southern extension to be done. I suspect part of the cost issue is that traffic on US 17 at I-95 in Falmouth is such a problem that the interchange will have to be completely re-done in that project.
 
2012-11-19 01:29:41 PM  
The new HOT lanes are in fact, new roadway....physically separated from the hoi polloi. Confusion is stemming from people not understanding the limited entrance / exit points, not thinking in time to make the decision to go on the HOT lane or not, etc.

When they just re-designate existing lanes as HOV without adding new ones, it's a recipe for jams. They did that on the toll road a few years ago, and traffic came to complete gridlock.

The way to do the 'toll' road is to stop off @ Dulles, buy gas or transact some 'business', then take the access road all the way in.
 
2012-11-19 01:30:56 PM  

ManRay: Question:

Did they pave in new lanes for the HOT lanes or did they re-stripe existing lanes?

Atlanta just converted existing HOV lanes to HOT lanes. The project was destined for failure from the start. They solution to "we have a traffic problem" was to lower the lane capacity (at great expense) and charge people for the privilege of using the HOV lane. After the lanes were built it took all of 3 days for the Governor to lower the pricing structure to encourage people to use the lanes since nobody was driving in them. There were several weeks of bigger than normal traffic jams right after the HOT opening.


They paved new lanes...but that makes it sound simpler than reality. What they actually did, was widen the entire roadway (including giant concrete barriers to reduce sound outside), re-route the existing beltway lanes, install new lanes inside (including all necessary widening of overpasses) and re-pave the entire surface both HOT and regular lanes, install new signage, and provide new barriers to seperate the different types of lanes. All of this without shutting down the existing roadways except between midnight-5:00am.

Nothing is going to make traffic around DC "good"...but at least they are trying to make things "better"

/I personally favor a MUCH stricter licensing exam. I see way too many people make mistakes that they should know not to do.
//Also, I favor losing your license (for at least a year, if not longer) for many more infractions, and automatically if you are at-fault in an accident.
/THAT would put fewer cars on the road, and the ones left would be better drivers.
 
2012-11-19 01:36:51 PM  

brigid_fitch: Hack Patooey: The cause of the crash has not been determined but Virginia State Police are urging drivers to be careful and not back up if they mistakenly enter the Express Lanes.

I see it all the time, but who the fark thinks its OK to back up on the highway because you screwed up an exit?

Not only do I see this all the time, some farkwit BACKED INTO ME once! Going onto an entrance ramp and the car started giving me issues--wouldn't accelerate right, almost every idiot light on the dash starts flashing. Didn't want to pull onto a busy highway when she's acting up, so I pulled onto the shoulder & called AAA. As I'm waiting, a white commercial pickup truck passes me, goes onto the shoulder, and starts backing up. I figure he's being a good Samaritan and wants to see if he can help. Except that he's not slowing down. Hit the horn but the car's turned off--no horn. By the time I turn on the ignition to try the horn again or maybe try to get the hell out of the way, the asshole slams right into me. Bumper crumples, trailer hitch on the back of the truck punctures the radiator. When he tries to pull forward, he nearly rips the radiator out of the engine. No injuries, thankfully, just utter incredulity.

Luckily, the 2 guys he was with told the cops the truth. I don't think anyone, myself included, would EVER believe that somebody got backed into on the shoulder of a busy highway ramp. But it happened.

/CSB
//VW's apparently have a "limp-home" mode (Emergency Running Mode). That's what kicked in that day. Never experienced it before.


Did the dude say WHY he backed into you? Was he trying to help and just happen to be blind as fark when backing up?
 
2012-11-19 01:42:05 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food:
Actually, that is the plan... to extend HOT lanes all the way down to Massaponax.

However, read what I just said... HOT lanes, not HOV, so you'll be paying for the privilege.

But, yeah, the first leg of the plan is extending them down to the 143 within the next three years.

jkl65s4:
For what it's worth, the plan is there to extend the lanes to just past the curve at US 1/17 Massaponax Exit 126. The funding just isn't there at the current time. However, the state did go ahead and do the environmental impact studies for that plan when they were doing the one for the current extension southward. I suspect it won't be long after the extension to Exit 143 is completed before they clamor for the southern extension to be done. I suspect part of the cost issue is that traffic on US 17 at I-95 in Falmouth is such a problem that the interchange will have to be completely re-done in that project.



Ah, thanks for the info both of you. I wish they would have just done the full installation in 1 phase, since they have all the tree-removal and grading equipment on-site already. Remobilization for a second phase of work is just going to increase the overall costs...but I guess it is better than nothing...

/And I am fine with HOT lanes since they still encourage carpooling. Don't like the tolls? Find someone to share a ride with=problem solved.
 
2012-11-19 01:46:47 PM  
My solution-I don't drive anywhere near NOVA, and take the MARC train when I want to go to DC.
 
2012-11-19 01:47:46 PM  

my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food: FirstNationalBastard: my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food:
Actually, that is the plan... to extend HOT lanes all the way down to Massaponax.

However, read what I just said... HOT lanes, not HOV, so you'll be paying for the privilege.

But, yeah, the first leg of the plan is extending them down to the 143 within the next three years.

jkl65s4:
For what it's worth, the plan is there to extend the lanes to just past the curve at US 1/17 Massaponax Exit 126. The funding just isn't there at the current time. However, the state did go ahead and do the environmental impact studies for that plan when they were doing the one for the current extension southward. I suspect it won't be long after the extension to Exit 143 is completed before they clamor for the southern extension to be done. I suspect part of the cost issue is that traffic on US 17 at I-95 in Falmouth is such a problem that the interchange will have to be completely re-done in that project.

Ah, thanks for the info both of you. I wish they would have just done the full installation in 1 phase, since they have all the tree-removal and grading equipment on-site already. Remobilization for a second phase of work is just going to increase the overall costs...but I guess it is better than nothing...

/And I am fine with HOT lanes since they still encourage carpooling. Don't like the tolls? Find someone to share a ride with=problem solved.


If it ever does make it down past Falmouth, as you mentioned earlier, I'm curious as to how they would manage the Rappahannock River Bridge stretch... a new bridge between the two existing structures? A brand new mega bridge? Honestly, the existing bridges could probably use replacing at this point.

But, I can never find anyone who has a straight answer on that part of the deal... most likely because, as was said, they only have funding down to the 143, so everything else is just a future possibility with no firm plans at this time.
 
2012-11-19 01:50:07 PM  

AngryJailhouseFistfark: oakleym82: Well Signed and the image of the new HOV Switchy EZ-Pass.

As for signage, the only one I saw was on the ramp at Route 29 in Merrifield. The "EZPass Required" sign on that onramp was smaller than all the rest of the signs and it looked like an afterthought.


To everyone biatching about signs:

- There have been "www.495expresslanes.com" signs up along this corridor for 6 months.
- There have been test signs on all entrances (overhead, big bright orange LEDs) saying the date it would go into effect
- There are EZ pass notifications on every one of these signs.
- You must be illiterate to claim any of this is a surprise AT ALL.

That being said, I'm a Alexandrian transplant from NJ, and I cannot BELIEVE how shiatty the driving is here. And by shiatty, I mean slow, slow, not-in-a-rush, get-the-fark-out-of-the-left-lane, do-the-farking-speed-limit shiatty.

/looking forward to the 1%'ers relieving some of the traffic in the peasant lanes from springfield to tyson's...
 
2012-11-19 01:55:08 PM  

AngryJailhouseFistfark: oakleym82: Well Signed and the image of the new HOV Switchy EZ-Pass.


I quit using the EZPass when I quit working outside the Beltway so my drives from my home don't require it. I was not aware they made the gizmo switchy like that. It's super. How many people will plow into the toll booth while their reaching up to flick the switch instead of paying attention to the road, I wonders.

As for signage, the only one I saw was on the ramp at Route 29 in Merrifield. The "EZPass Required" sign on that onramp was smaller than all the rest of the signs and it looked like an afterthought.


valkore: oakleym82: This thing. You switch to to "HOV ON" if you have 3 people in your car, then you don't get charged the toll. It's not complicated.

No, it is complicated. It requires the driver to fiddle with a device while rounding a corner going 70 mph and making a decision of whether or not to use a toll lane. None of this should be necessary.

Either we need more capacity in general, or we need to enforce carpooling on the beltway. This does neither of those things. It simply generates revenue for the highway authority while allowing a fraction of the commuters to enjoy exclusive access to roads built with public funds. Total bullshiat.


There are no toll booths, just giant, sweeping on-ramps and off-ramps.

If you're going to have 3+ people and use the HOT lanes, you will have already ordered this device and should understand its operation. When you pick up your 3rd carpooler you flip the switch and just drive baby drive. No fiddling, no crashing. Cars have zillions of buttons and touch screens these days, what is the problem with a simple two-position switch? Jesus people.

And FYI you can use the HOT lanes with a regular E-ZPass, but you'll be charged even if you have 3 people.

Also, I looked into this, the E-ZPass Flex (switchable transponder) will work on ANY E-ZPass toll booth/sensor nation-wide regardless of its position. Essentially there are two transponders inside, the selector switches between them. On the HOT lanes, it matters, on all other toll roads it doesn't, it chargers the same account regardless.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-11-19 02:25:05 PM  
- There have been "www.495expresslanes.com" signs up along this corridor for 6 months.

It's illegal to display a web site address on a sign along a major highway. MUTCD 2A.06 paragraph 14. This is federal law. It may be illegal to access an illegally-displayed web site name while driving. That's a matter of state law.
 
2012-11-19 02:26:15 PM  

That being said, I'm a Alexandrian transplant from NJ, and I cannot BELIEVE how shiatty the driving is here. And by shiatty, I mean slow, slow, not-in-a-rush, get-the-fark-out-of-the-left-lane, do-the-farking-speed-limit shiatty


You should'a been there back in the day. In the 80's, the beltway was a 90mph, bumper-to-bumper deathmatch Circus Maximus, baby.

/then you yankees all moved down and farked it up
 
2012-11-19 02:48:45 PM  

fpr3: To everyone biatching about signs:

- There have been "www.495expresslanes.com" signs up along this corridor for 6 months.
- There have been test signs on all entrances (overhead, big bright orange LEDs) saying the date it would go into effect
- There are EZ pass notifications on every one of these signs.
- You must be illiterate to claim any of this is a surprise AT ALL.

That being said, I'm a Alexandrian transplant from NJ, and I cannot BELIEVE how shiatty the driving is here. And by shiatty, I mean slow, slow, not-in-a-rush, get-the-fark-out-of-the-left-lane, do-the-farking-speed-limit shiatty.

/looking forward to the 1%'ers relieving some of the traffic in the peasant lanes from springfield to tyson's...


Here's the thing: I have an EZ-Pass. I occasionally carry more than 2 occupants. I'm not from DC, but travel through on occasion.

The EZ-Pass Flex sign is damn near impossible to discern at speed. the sign makes it appear my trip is free, but it is not.
 
2012-11-19 02:51:03 PM  
HOT wheels for HOT lanes?

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2012-11-19 03:04:34 PM  

ManRay: Question:

Did they pave in new lanes for the HOT lanes or did they re-stripe existing lanes?

Atlanta just converted existing HOV lanes to HOT lanes. The project was destined for failure from the start. They solution to "we have a traffic problem" was to lower the lane capacity (at great expense) and charge people for the privilege of using the HOV lane. After the lanes were built it took all of 3 days for the Governor to lower the pricing structure to encourage people to use the lanes since nobody was driving in them. There were several weeks of bigger than normal traffic jams right after the HOT opening.


They paved a whole new road, paid for by a private firm with generally what appear to be it's own etire entry/exit system. The DC area has a whole informal network of picking up riders to use high occupancy lanes (slugging).
 
2012-11-19 03:11:03 PM  

ZAZ: It may be illegal to access an illegally-displayed web site name while driving. That's a matter of state law.


What about accessing the portion of your brain that stores information, in order to view an illegally displayed website at a later, safer time? Still OK? Or is it better to ignore these illegal signs, and make illegal moves on the freeway like reversing because you are "surprised" you have to pay for these shiny new lanes?
 
2012-11-19 03:13:46 PM  

oakleym82: If you're going to have 3+ people and use the HOT lanes, you will have already ordered this device and should understand its operation.


See, there's your problem right there. Whenever you're dealing with the general public and you find yourself saying, "you should already understand", or "you should know", or "you should be prepared", you're going to have trouble.
 
2012-11-19 03:17:29 PM  

ZAZ: - There have been "www.495expresslanes.com" signs up along this corridor for 6 months.

It's illegal to display a web site address on a sign along a major highway. MUTCD 2A.06 paragraph 14. This is federal law. It may be illegal to access an illegally-displayed web site name while driving. That's a matter of state law.


14 Except as provided in Paragraph 16 and except for the Carpool Information (D12-2) sign (see Section 2I.11), Internet addresses and e-mail addresses, including domain names and uniform resource locators (URL), shall not be displayed on any sign, supplemental plaque, sign panel (including logo sign panels on Specific Service signs), or changeable message sign.

Paragraph 16 and Section 2I.11 called to say hello, and both wondered why you hadn't stopped by.
 
2012-11-19 03:18:12 PM  

GRCooper: That being said, I'm a Alexandrian transplant from NJ, and I cannot BELIEVE how shiatty the driving is here. And by shiatty, I mean slow, slow, not-in-a-rush, get-the-fark-out-of-the-left-lane, do-the-farking-speed-limit shiatty

You should'a been there back in the day. In the 80's, the beltway was a 90mph, bumper-to-bumper deathmatch Circus Maximus, baby.

/then you yankees all moved down and farked it up


To be honest, the beltway traffic is purely congestion - the infrastructure in NOVA cannot support the pop growth over the last 20 years. What really grinds my gears.jpg are the smaller roads, with folks doing 35 in a 45, or not accelerating when the light goes green. That shiat compounds backwards to cause traffic where there should be none. Additional to this is signal timing, which might as well have been done by chimps. 3 minutes at a light is no good for anybody, and hitting every other light is poor understanding of traffic flow. Bad design coupled with bad driving equals traffic jams at the Walmart light on Saturday morning at 11am. While I'm at it, I also think this area would benefit from jughandles to make left turns. That keeps everyone who will make a turn in the right lane, and it removes the added time to have green left-turn arrows at every light. Win-win!
 
2012-11-19 03:51:14 PM  
What really grinds my gears.jpg are the smaller roads, with folks doing 35 in a 45, or not accelerating when the light goes green.

You must live near Route 1 in Virginia, south of the beltway!
 
2012-11-19 03:57:26 PM  

Bushrod: What really grinds my gears.jpg are the smaller roads, with folks doing 35 in a 45, or not accelerating when the light goes green.

You must live near Route 1 in Virginia, south of the beltway!


You win the prize! Still, these problems are persistent all the way out Rt 7 towards Leesburg. (in Seinfeld voice) What is with these people braking for an amber light?
 
2012-11-19 04:03:01 PM  

fpr3: Bushrod: What really grinds my gears.jpg are the smaller roads, with folks doing 35 in a 45, or not accelerating when the light goes green.

You must live near Route 1 in Virginia, south of the beltway!

You win the prize! Still, these problems are persistent all the way out Rt 7 towards Leesburg. (in Seinfeld voice) What is with these people braking for an amber light?


What also grinds my gears is that they drive 35 in a 45, then turn into my neighborhood and drive 45 in a 25...
 
2012-11-19 06:52:09 PM  

talulahgosh: Sunrazor: sodomizer: (A)

Drivers: the problem is the roads!

(B)

Roads: the problem is the drivers!

(If you pick A, you're liberal. If you pick B, you're conservative.)

c) Kill your sister, so you can see the guy/girl again!

if you're a 'c' you'll end up like me!

/c, the heavenly (and fark) option!


i1322.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-19 07:18:18 PM  
As someone who uses the I-95 HOT lanes in Miami twice a month, I laugh at you people.

/My car is 19 years old, not a Lexus
//Is worth it not to be driving next to schmuks in their jalopies
 
2012-11-19 07:45:00 PM  

Girion47: Spade: gochuck: I laugh at the people who live out in the burbs. If you work in DC, live in DC (especially if you don't have kids, no excuse then).

We laugh at you and your living in tiny boxes with ridiculously high rents. I'll stick with the nice big house, yard, with a mortgage less than DC rent, and lower taxes.

/takes the VRE
//been delayed twice in three years
///biggest problem is the METRO transfer.

Bullshiat. I took the VRE, it's delayed at least once a month, even more if there's any snow, rain, or Amtrak/CSX feels like being a dick.


Nonsense.

In the past year we've been delayed over 15 minutes once due to amazingly high amounts of rain washing out the tracks (happened on a Thursday, fixed by Monday morning), a CSX hazmat train breaking down (sat for 40 minutes, only ended up being 15 minutes late), and a bomb threat that shut down all train traffic. And it didn't run during Sandy but neither did the government. And some idiot walking on the tracks got hit and farked everything up, but that was two trains after mine.

Fredericksburg line runs between 95%-98% on time.

Most of the VRE complaints I've heard involve people who haven't taken it in years. Taking the train rocks.

Hilariously, my commute time with the VRE on average is the same into DC as it was when I commuted from Old Town Alexandria. Minimum Metro time for me was 40 minutes, not including the walk/drive/bus to the station, and that never happened. Driving up I-295 or through Crystal City was often an hour during rush hour.

And I can read, or work, or sleep on my way to work. And I can point and laugh at suckers sitting on 495 at least three times on the way. Riding the train farking rocks.
 
2012-11-19 07:46:07 PM  

oakleym82: It is well signed:


I assume they have cameras photographing everyone with HOV mode on, from a couple angles, to ensure that there isn't mass abuse.

computerguyUT: They did the same thing here in Utah. They took one of our lanes away, turned it into a (miserable faliure of an) HOV lane and charge for it's use unless you're carpooling or have paid for the Express (whatever the hell they're calling it).


Los Angeles and Dallas just built a second freeway right over the existing freeway and bridges. That only worked because the existing road was a cut with flat bridges overhead, though some marvel of engineering might make it work for regular surface freeways someday. They're pretty amazing to see.
 
2012-11-19 08:04:07 PM  

fpr3: Additional to this is signal timing, which might as well have been done by chimps. 3 minutes at a light is no good for anybody, and hitting every other light is poor understanding of traffic flow. Bad design coupled with bad driving equals traffic jams at the Walmart light on Saturday morning at 11am. While I'm at it, I also think this area would benefit from jughandles to make left turns. That keeps everyone who will make a turn in the right lane, and it removes the added time to have green left-turn arrows at every light. Win-win!


Don't get me started on useless city engineers. Driving a boulevard that I'm certain had sensors when I moved here five years ago, and apparently had most of them removed when repaved a few years back, I had the pleasure of sitting at multiple red lights in a row at 2 am over the weekend waiting at least 3 minutes each, without a single person crossing or turning, because all were timed for rush hour traffic. The only reason I didn't stop and blow through is the chance of cops trolling for DUIs at that hour.

Is it so hard to at least use time zones with much shorter timing outside of rush hour? No, that takes effort and there's no money in it.

Even Michigan Lefts on big roads would be a big improvement. People here seem to flip out and get lost if they ever have to turn around though.
 
2012-11-19 08:10:17 PM  
Also, in Europe it's common to blink all lights yellow at night except at the biggest intersections. I know that would result in endless crashes here since yellow has come to mean "speed up" instead of "slow and go," but you'd think making smaller intersections blink red on the small side would be a huge boon for traffic, and cut down a ton on useless idling. I've never seen that anywhere. The closest was intersections that turn into 4-way stops, kind of a pain on a 40mph road.
 
2012-11-19 08:44:15 PM  

Turfshoe: I was curious to see how my commute would be affected and whether I was going to try out the new lanes. Then I get to see that the new lanes caused more traffic than normal.


Here in Texas (it's not my fault, I was lured here under false pretenses), they recently instituted the "left lane is for passing only" thing. I thought it would be great. No more getting stuck behind some idiot doing 50 in a 70 zone! Right?

Wrong. Somehow, for reasons that will no doubt remain shrouded in mystery until the end of time, it's made even *more* idiots camp out at well below the limit in the passing lane. Half the time they're going slower than the traffic in the next lane over (I've had to pass on the right more times in the last month than I did in the entire previous year, no lie), and the other half of the time they're creeping along in formation with their fellow idiots so there's no way around them and you've got a contingent of impatient, tailgating assholes who will start swerving through traffic like maniacs with only inches of clearance the second they think they can get around someone.

I don't tailgate and 70 is plenty fast enough for my commute. All I want is to drive AT THE POSTED SPEED LIMIT. Is that so wrong?

/I've lived in MD, DC, Northern VA, Charlotte, the SF Bay, and Austin. Austin drivers are more polite than average, I'll give them that, but they're total wusses behind the wheel. Afraid to pull onto the freeway, afraid to change lanes until you give them like 150 car lengths, start slowing down a mile before their exit, afraid to take their turn at intersections... Even the pedestrians are nuts, they cross the street extra slow while giving you the stink-eye the entire time, apparently convinced that if they take their eyes off you for a split second you're going to floor it and run them down, which you start wanting to do when they're only 1/4 of the way across the street.
//No, seriously, I really was lured here under false pretenses. I'm not friends with those people anymore.
 
2012-11-19 09:35:21 PM  

Spade: Girion47: Spade: gochuck: I laugh at the people who live out in the burbs. If you work in DC, live in DC (especially if you don't have kids, no excuse then).

We laugh at you and your living in tiny boxes with ridiculously high rents. I'll stick with the nice big house, yard, with a mortgage less than DC rent, and lower taxes.

/takes the VRE
//been delayed twice in three years
///biggest problem is the METRO transfer.

Bullshiat. I took the VRE, it's delayed at least once a month, even more if there's any snow, rain, or Amtrak/CSX feels like being a dick.

Nonsense.

In the past year we've been delayed over 15 minutes once due to amazingly high amounts of rain washing out the tracks (happened on a Thursday, fixed by Monday morning), a CSX hazmat train breaking down (sat for 40 minutes, only ended up being 15 minutes late), and a bomb threat that shut down all train traffic. And it didn't run during Sandy but neither did the government. And some idiot walking on the tracks got hit and farked everything up, but that was two trains after mine.

Fredericksburg line runs between 95%-98% on time.

Most of the VRE complaints I've heard involve people who haven't taken it in years. Taking the train rocks.

Hilariously, my commute time with the VRE on average is the same into DC as it was when I commuted from Old Town Alexandria. Minimum Metro time for me was 40 minutes, not including the walk/drive/bus to the station, and that never happened. Driving up I-295 or through Crystal City was often an hour during rush hour.

And I can read, or work, or sleep on my way to work. And I can point and laugh at suckers sitting on 495 at least three times on the way. Riding the train farking rocks.


I took it from Burke Centre to L'Enfant
 
2012-11-19 11:45:16 PM  

Magorn: living in Loudoun county (Leesburg) and working about 35 Mi away in downtown DC, I'd say the best thing about living in my country is the huge, coach-like commuter buses that pick up at a parking lot about 3 mi from my house and get me to a block from my work in about 45 min. 45 min that I can sleep, read, whatever else the fark I want to do. Sure its $7 each way, but the farking tolls would cost me that much to drive, to say nothing of gas or parking.


Oh, God, that thing off 7 west?

At night, that place looks like something you'd see in the first 10 minutes of an episode of CSI
 
2012-11-19 11:47:37 PM  

hiker9999: gochuck: I laugh at the people who live out in the burbs. If you work in DC, live in DC (especially if you don't have kids, no excuse then).

Perhaps we don't want to live in a city whose "leadership" is nearly constantly under criminal investigation?

Perhaps we don't want to live in a city where Marion frakking Barry is seen as some kind of bizarre folk hero?


In other words, he doesn't like all the chocolate.
 
2012-11-20 12:19:07 AM  

wambu: nelsonal: I usually just park in the Metro lots, they're cheap and free on weekends.

I always visit during the week and the lots were typically full.


Full with the cars that park for free because of a handicap placard, I'm sure.
 
2012-11-20 08:04:42 AM  

Yogimus: hiker9999: gochuck: I laugh at the people who live out in the burbs. If you work in DC, live in DC (especially if you don't have kids, no excuse then).

Perhaps we don't want to live in a city whose "leadership" is nearly constantly under criminal investigation?

Perhaps we don't want to live in a city where Marion frakking Barry is seen as some kind of bizarre folk hero?

In other words, he doesn't like all the chocolate.


Yeah I'd be pissed if my tax dollars were spent towards buying the mayor a second luxury SUV because he didn't like the interior on the first one, which is kept in a lot instead of returned.
 
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