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(Local10 WPLG)   Economists predict Twinkies will survive bankruptcy, nuclear holocaust   (local10.com) divider line 71
    More: Spiffy, nuclear holocaust, ho ho, Hostess Brands, University of Michigan Law School, fire sales, economists, Teamsters, Flowers Foods  
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2555 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Nov 2012 at 8:22 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-19 10:04:40 AM
Yes....this person should be paid more than $16.00/hr for their job:

i280.photobucket.com

Most union employees are overpaid for the actual job they do. When I was in a Union (min wage was $5.25/hr) I was making $10.25/hr...as a cashier at a supermarket...completely overpaid for the job but since I was in a Union I received regular pay raises. All the company could do was cut my hours.
 
2012-11-19 10:04:55 AM

sodomizer: ChaoticLimbs: Moron, they weren't asking for more money.

When you raise the pay past a reasonable point, you don't ask for more money. What you do is threaten to strike and play the victim if management demands reasonable wages.


How can a union raise pay beyond a "reasonable point"? Doesn't management have to approve contracts? Isn't the negotiation simply a game between two bargainers, one that provides labor and one that needs labor? Are you saying that management is too stupid to bargain?
It's true, history is full of examples of companies that negotiated labor contracts, and then farked up and found themselves in a bind. Contracts are negotiated based on assumed revenues, and that's true for both sides. Both sides assume the output of the labor has a certain value. When GM fell below 30% of the domestic market, they could no longer afford certain obligations. But whose fault was that? Shouldn't management, who are the ones responsible for meeting those revenue targets, be the first to get wacked? If they were the first to get wacked, there would be a lot less animosity. Instead, it's "Oops. I really farked up the brand. Sucks to be a worker!"
 
2012-11-19 10:15:26 AM
Defend unions all you want, I'm sure all the workers with no jobs right before Christmas will...
 
2012-11-19 10:41:05 AM

sodomizer: spyderqueen: Greed was Hostess trying to cut employees pay by 8% and benefits by 32% while the CEO gave himself a 300% raise (from $750,000 yr to $2,550,000 yr). Additionally, nine other executives received pay increases ranging from 60% to 100% while filing their second bankruptcy.

Life is so much more complicated than linear comparisons.

To attract a good CEO, you have to pay a competitive salary. Ditto for upper-level staff.

You're talking about a few million there; how many millions does it take to pay the whole workforce that 8%?

And was the 8% above industry standard?

These are the questions you should ask, not some out of context comparison.

I would not want someone who thought in such a simplistic manner to run any company I'd work for.


Doesn't matter - if you're asking your workforce to cut back, you don't double your salary - you just *don't* - not unless you want to risk something exactly like this.

In the grand scheme of things, does the upper management salary 'matter' to the bottom line? In this case, yes - because they were the straw that broke the camel's back, and caused the workforce to revolt.

So instead of giving *themselves* an 8% cut in the interest of keeping the company going, the board decided to 'rebalance' their salary away from performance incentives they couldn't collect in bankruptcy to straight cash - and basically told thier workforce to suck it up.

I was very much in the "you dummies" camp when I heard about the union workers shooting themselves in the foot this way, but I think the onus is on the board - they chose to prioritize themselves over the company, and ultimately everyone lost out.

Countervailing example:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-4761136.html

You want to maximize your personal income at the expense of the company? Don't be surpised if the workers follow your 'leadership'
 
2012-11-19 10:42:54 AM
Who's right when everybody's wrong?
 
2012-11-19 10:43:14 AM

xanadian:
/Good thing Drake's is still around
//...I think


http://www.hostessbrands.com/brands/drakes.aspx

Does that answer your question? ;)
 
2012-11-19 10:55:35 AM

Titor's Time Machine: MDGeist: Glad to see the 30% who were in the union screwed the rest of the work force with their greed. Go unions...

Greed?

Greed was Hostess trying to cut employees pay by 8% and benefits by 32% while the CEO gave himself a 300% raise (from $750,000 yr to $2,550,000 yr). Additionally, nine other executives received pay increases ranging from 60% to 100% while filing their second bankruptcy.

But please, continue to blame the actual workers and the union who were protesting this nonsense.

Look at how stupid you look.


Did the company file for bankruptcy? Is that exactly what they said they would do in response to a prolonged strike? Did 5,000 people hold hostage the jobs of 13,500 other employees?

The answer to all of those questions is "Yes." I think it is you who looks stupid--after all, management gets to dictate whether you have a job to go to, not the union.
 
2012-11-19 11:09:28 AM

Nezu Chiza: sodomizer, I know it's just feeding you, but I have to ask...

Are you really saying that the CEO of Hostess was a good CEO? Because if not, then your comment about needing a competitive salary to attract a good CEO and upper management is wrong, and if you are you're applauding them for running the company into the ground with their management skills. Which is it?


Sometimes keeping a company afloat is not in the best interest of the shareholders (i.e. the people to whom upper management has a fiduciary responsibility. If liquidating the company netted a greater return than keeping the business going with the strike and money issues, then hell yeah he was a good CEO.
 
2012-11-19 11:42:30 AM

stratagos: xanadian:
/Good thing Drake's is still around
//...I think

http://www.hostessbrands.com/brands/drakes.aspx

Does that answer your question? ;)


:(
 
2012-11-19 12:02:20 PM

ferretman: Yes....this person should be paid more than $16.00/hr for their job:

[i280.photobucket.com image 850x637]

Most union employees are overpaid for the actual job they do. When I was in a Union (min wage was $5.25/hr) I was making $10.25/hr...as a cashier at a supermarket...completely overpaid for the job but since I was in a Union I received regular pay raises. All the company could do was cut my hours.


since you feel you were overpaid, you obviously gave them the excess back, right?
 
2012-11-19 12:08:08 PM

ltdanman44: MDGeist: Glad to see the 30% who were in the union screwed the rest of the work force with their greed. Go unions...

but when management screws its employees that's ok right?


The union stopped the production. They need to get back to work so they could stay in business. The union said screw you and they folded. You're a union apologist and cannot be reasoned with.
 
2012-11-19 12:11:26 PM

Ctrl-Alt-Del: It's such a shame that the company is forced to agree to their horrible demands rather than say "no, thanks, your demands for this contract are too great" and hire replacement workers


Isn't that illegal?
 
2012-11-19 02:37:29 PM

AgentPothead: sodomizer did you completely gloss over the fact that management was giving itself insanely large bonuses? Hell their ceo went from 750,000 to 2,5000,000 the same year he's in court trying to get the company to file for bankruptcy AND asking his workforce to take a 27% pay cut. That doesn't make a lick of sense. And you sit there and with a straight face ask how management screws it's employees? Pull your head out of your ass and maybe with those things called eyes you can figure it out.


I just hit the "ignore" button and his posts don't upset me anymore
 
2012-11-19 02:53:33 PM
I think a lot of anti-union people are missing the point of what is happening to Hostess. The company's sales have been dropping for a long time for a number of reasons. The two most important is that the snack food industry is glutted with choices; Hostess has too much competition. Secondly, people really are beginning to make healthier snack choices and Hostess has nothing to offer. Because of this, they have been losing ground for quite some time now. With or without union contract considerations, they are bankrupt and cannot go on. The union DID NOT cause this business failure, not even Hostess says so. They cannot afford to negotiate with the union.
 
2012-11-19 04:33:20 PM
like no one wanted Twinkies before.
now that they're no longer making them, EVERYONE wants twinkles
 
2012-11-19 04:36:53 PM
Hostess: For those who have yet to discover Tastykake.
 
2012-11-19 06:57:19 PM
HOSTESS CHERRY PIE CIRCA 1976 FTW!!!!!!
 
2012-11-19 08:32:46 PM

BoxOfBees: Hostess: For those who have yet to discover Tastykake.


In fairness, some of those poor souls don't have access to Tastykake. Poor bastards.



/Butterscotch Krimpets are the BEST
//No one else makes anything like them
///Spice Cake Krimpets are also awesome.
 
2012-11-19 11:25:59 PM

sodomizer: spyderqueen: Greed was Hostess trying to cut employees pay by 8% and benefits by 32% while the CEO gave himself a 300% raise (from $750,000 yr to $2,550,000 yr). Additionally, nine other executives received pay increases ranging from 60% to 100% while filing their second bankruptcy.

Life is so much more complicated than linear comparisons.

To attract a good CEO, you have to pay a competitive salary. Ditto for upper-level staff.


Nothing says "good CEO" like multiple bankruptcies.

As Warren Buffet notes, executive compensation IS often linked to a firm's performance...inversely.
 
2012-11-20 01:30:15 AM
First Buckyballs, now Twinkies!!! What is this world coming to?????

/first world problems
 
2012-11-20 02:35:53 AM
i249.photobucket.com

i249.photobucket.com
 
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