If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Mercury News)   U.S. health care system wastes $765 billion a year. Well, to be fair, it's a lot less if you don't count the salary and benefits of all the health care company CEOs   (mercurynews.com) divider line 82
    More: Fail  
•       •       •

2779 clicks; posted to Business » on 19 Nov 2012 at 11:35 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



82 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-11-19 04:10:43 AM
"Some sick guy just died in the corridor by the ER"

"Quick! Fetch me this quarter's P&L! And get legal on line 1!"
 
2012-11-19 04:22:39 AM
Subby needs to get a job and stop counting other people's money. Sick and tired of hearing about how CEOs make too much money. You know who spent an assload of money trying to become a CEO, and then trying to hold onto his job after screwing around for years with no results? Obama. Now go demonize him, asshole.
 
2012-11-19 04:35:45 AM

dkendr: Subby needs to get a job and stop counting other people's money. Sick and tired of hearing about how CEOs make too much money. You know who spent an assload of money trying to become a CEO, and then trying to hold onto his job after screwing around for years with no results? Obama.


You can blow the rich until your gums bleed but that seat in the getaway car is never gonna happen.
 
2012-11-19 05:52:10 AM

dkendr: Subby needs to get a job and stop counting other people's money. Sick and tired of hearing about how CEOs make too much money. You know who spent an assload of money trying to become a CEO, and then trying to hold onto his job after screwing around for years with no results? Obama. Now go demonize him, asshole.


Wow, someone didn't get his Special K this morning. Breakfast of champions indeed.

/do not feed the troll
 
2012-11-19 07:54:21 AM
wo final categories with comparatively niggling amounts include $55 billion for missed prevention opportunities and $75 billion for fraud. I am surprised to see fraud at a relatively low rate (about 10 percent overall) because the outgoing director of Medicare, whom Congress refused to approve, estimated fraud at 35 percent of Medicare's total cost. If so, this arithmetic tells us is that the private sector may be better at detecting fraud than government-run programs.

A system designed to hang on to money is better at catching fraud than a system designed to cut checks now and ask questions later?

You don't say.

I am the cheapest bastard who ever threw grannies off a cliff, but that's the first time I've ever seen 35% as the number given for Medicare fraud. I'm pretty sure the number Donald Berwick gave was 20-30%, and that included both waste and fraud.

So hey, great, Medicare only pisses away 20-30% of their budget and not 35%+. This means Paul Krugman is now chairman of the new cabinet-level Department Of It'll Be Somalia Unless We Spend Like Batshiat Rednecks in Vegas.
 
2012-11-19 08:42:47 AM
U.S. health care system wastes $765 billion a year.

You think its bad now? Just wait to see what the number is in ten years when the same guys who are are hemorraging $16B a quarter now running the postal service are in charge of health care.
 
2012-11-19 08:44:11 AM
As per the article, of that 765 billion, 190 is "administrative and bureaucratic costs" so even if you remove that as the cost of doing business, you're still left with 575 billion in waste, or more than half a trillion dollars.
 
2012-11-19 08:46:30 AM
For six weeks he had no hip joint at all while the swelling went down.

There's nothing "hip" about marijuana!
 
2012-11-19 08:51:56 AM

dkendr: Subby needs to get a job


I love how you can asses one's employment status based on a Fark submission. You must be a professional barn painter with those broad brushes you weild.
 
2012-11-19 08:53:09 AM

SlothB77: U.S. health care system wastes $765 billion a year.

You think its bad now? Just wait to see what the number is in ten years when the same guys who are are hemorraging $16B a quarter now running the postal service are in charge of health care.


You keep mentioning this in healthcare threads, but you always fail to mention how congress intentionally financially sabotaged the postal service.
 
2012-11-19 09:40:05 AM

Cythraul: You keep mentioning this in healthcare threads, but you always fail to mention how congress intentionally financially sabotaged the postal service.


SEKRIT MUZLIM KNEEGROWS, GOLDANGIT!1!
 
2012-11-19 10:20:55 AM

Cythraul: SlothB77: U.S. health care system wastes $765 billion a year.

You think its bad now? Just wait to see what the number is in ten years when the same guys who are are hemorraging $16B a quarter now running the postal service are in charge of health care.

You keep mentioning this in healthcare threads, but you always fail to mention how congress intentionally financially sabotaged the postal service.


I suspect it was done so guys like him could crow exactly that.
 
2012-11-19 10:37:34 AM

Cythraul: SlothB77: U.S. health care system wastes $765 billion a year.

You think its bad now? Just wait to see what the number is in ten years when the same guys who are are hemorraging $16B a quarter now running the postal service are in charge of health care.

You keep mentioning this in healthcare threads, but you always fail to mention how congress intentionally financially sabotaged the postal service.


fayinc.files.wordpress.com

Not because I doubt you but because I want to read it.
 
2012-11-19 11:44:24 AM

Cythraul: SlothB77: U.S. health care system wastes $765 billion a year.

You think its bad now? Just wait to see what the number is in ten years when the same guys who are are hemorraging $16B a quarter now running the postal service are in charge of health care.

You keep mentioning this in healthcare threads, but you always fail to mention how congress intentionally financially sabotaged the postal service.


Or the fact that the Postal Service isn't supposed to be a for-profit thing. It's a government service. The purpose of government isn't to make money, it's to serve man.
 
2012-11-19 11:48:39 AM

Because People in power are Stupid: Not because I doubt you but because I want to read it.


Not the best source but it is a good summary.
 
2012-11-19 11:50:27 AM

Lord Dimwit: Or the fact that the Postal Service isn't supposed to be a for-profit thing. It's a government service. The purpose of government isn't to make money, it's to serve man.


2.bp.blogspot.com

"NOOOO! I DON'T WANT ANY FARKING CHRISTMAS STAMPS!!!"
 
2012-11-19 11:50:34 AM

dkendr: Subby needs to get a job and stop counting other people's money. Sick and tired of hearing about how CEOs make too much money. You know who spent an assload of money trying to become a CEO, and then trying to hold onto his job after screwing around for years with no results? Obama. Now go demonize him, asshole.


You are as bad at trolling as you are at coding. Should you be out looking for someone to make squeal like a pig?
 
2012-11-19 11:50:42 AM
Link
It would help if I actually put the link in my post.

Essentially congress passed a law forcing the USPS to have enough money in their pension plan to take care of the next 75 years worth of employee retirements.

Which is obviously insane.
 
2012-11-19 12:01:17 PM

ghall3: Link
It would help if I actually put the link in my post.

Essentially congress passed a law forcing the USPS to have enough money in their pension plan to take care of the next 75 years worth of employee retirements.

Which is obviously insane.


I think it's quite brilliant, actually. Pass the law requiring the USPS to fund their pension obligations for the next 75 years; claim that the USPS is broke and might have to be shut down because they can't fulfill their legal obligation to fund all possible pensions until 2087; attack liberals over pensions when they ask why the USPS has such ridiculous rules when it comes to their pension fund.

It's win-win-win for the GOP.
 
2012-11-19 12:04:03 PM

qorkfiend: I think it's quite brilliant, actually. Pass the law requiring the USPS to fund their pension obligations for the next 75 years; claim that the USPS is broke and might have to be shut down because they can't fulfill their legal obligation to fund all possible pensions until 2087; attack liberals over pensions when they ask why the USPS has such ridiculous rules when it comes to their pension fund.

It's win-win-win for the GOP.


Well brilliant if you think Americans are stupid enough to not see through this quite obvious ploy.

/OK, you're right, it's brilliant
 
2012-11-19 12:07:42 PM
Wonder if any of that is a result of denying people care? I suppose it's part of the $190 billion that's used for admin/overhead...
 
2012-11-19 12:08:06 PM

Lord Dimwit: Cythraul: SlothB77: U.S. health care system wastes $765 billion a year.

You think its bad now? Just wait to see what the number is in ten years when the same guys who are are hemorraging $16B a quarter now running the postal service are in charge of health care.

You keep mentioning this in healthcare threads, but you always fail to mention how congress intentionally financially sabotaged the postal service.

Or the fact that the Postal Service isn't supposed to be a for-profit thing. It's a government service. The purpose of government isn't to make money, it's to serve man.


Or the fact that our postage rates are nearly half the cost of sending postage in most first-world nations, and it's actually cheaper to send a domestic letter in the US than in places like Mexico, Peru, or Turkey (because the congressionally-appointed rate board won't let them set prices sanely). If the US medical system were half the cost of any similar system in the world, I guess I'd be okay with a few lines, bureaucrats, and deficits.
 
2012-11-19 12:15:26 PM
Assuming if true $765 billion is a large scary number. Meant to frighten little boys and old white people. But what is total amount we spend on health care in a year? And what percentage of that is "waste"? And fraud? The article provides no context to any of these numbers and no one can make a judgement based on this.

And the article rightly points out several things have been a problem with the health care system in the past. Such as paying for unnecessary services. But most health insurance companies have been moving to an outcome based model for at least half a decade now.

/and I'm not sure why he thinks badly sterilized surgery rooms is somehow "waste"
 
2012-11-19 12:17:26 PM

qorkfiend: I think it's quite brilliant, actually. Pass the law requiring the USPS to fund their pension obligations for the next 75 years; claim that the USPS is broke and might have to be shut down because they can't fulfill their legal obligation to fund all possible pensions until 2087; attack liberals over pensions when they ask why the USPS has such ridiculous rules when it comes to their pension fund.

It's win-win-win for the GOP.


Article I, Section 8, Clause 7 of the US Constitution reads: "To establish Post Offices and post Roads". So why does the GOP hate the US Constitution so much?
 
2012-11-19 12:20:24 PM

gingerjet: Assuming if true $765 billion is a large scary number. Meant to frighten little boys and old white people. But what is total amount we spend on health care in a year? And what percentage of that is "waste"? And fraud? The article provides no context to any of these numbers and no one can make a judgement based on this.

And the article rightly points out several things have been a problem with the health care system in the past. Such as paying for unnecessary services. But most health insurance companies have been moving to an outcome based model for at least half a decade now.

/and I'm not sure why he thinks badly sterilized surgery rooms is somehow "waste"


What article were you reading? Because the one I read answered all of those questions.
 
2012-11-19 12:22:17 PM

gingerjet: qorkfiend: I think it's quite brilliant, actually. Pass the law requiring the USPS to fund their pension obligations for the next 75 years; claim that the USPS is broke and might have to be shut down because they can't fulfill their legal obligation to fund all possible pensions until 2087; attack liberals over pensions when they ask why the USPS has such ridiculous rules when it comes to their pension fund.

It's win-win-win for the GOP.

Article I, Section 8, Clause 7 of the US Constitution reads: "To establish Post Offices and post Roads". So why does the GOP hate the US Constitution so much?


Exactly. It doesn't say "To establish Post Offices and post Roads that must turn a profit or they suck." One of the purposes of the government is to do things that aren't profitable or shouldn't have a profit motive. Healthcare shouldn't have a profit motive, neither should having a reliable and official communications channel (i.e. mail). Same with police and prisons - neither of those should be profit-motivated.

The obsession with the Right in this country over things being monetarily profitable has mutated into this horrible "profit is the highest moral good" which, in my opinion, is psychopathic.
 
2012-11-19 12:26:01 PM

Cythraul: You keep mentioning this in healthcare threads, but you always fail to mention how congress intentionally financially sabotaged the postal service.


Slightly OT, but I'm far happier with the service I get from the USPS than either FedEx or UPS. At least they haven't lost any of my packages (UPS, using a sub-contractor), or crushed them (FedEx).

/maybe I'm just lucky, and the USPS employees in my State are really competent compared to others...
// I'm still p*ssed off at FedEx...
 
2012-11-19 12:28:20 PM
but... but... Government is where all the wasteful spending is at! The private sector is much more efficient, and will always get you best ROI! I know this because my first econ prof told me so!

/Invisible hand
 
2012-11-19 12:34:04 PM
However, the largest single category of abuse is attributable to unnecessary services at a cost of $210 billion. When the current system is basically a cost-plus oligopoly that includes insurance companies and service providers, nobody in that business model really has an incentive to avoid treatment based upon any hard-nosed determination of what is necessary.

Further waste is identified as insurance and bureaucratic costs. This single item totals $190 billion.


The game is rigged, so...

Two final categories with comparatively niggling amounts include $55 billion for missed prevention opportunities and $75 billion for fraud. I am surprised to see fraud at a relatively low rate (about 10 percent overall) because the outgoing director of Medicare, whom Congress refused to approve, estimated fraud at 35 percent of Medicare's total cost. If so, this arithmetic tells us is that the private sector may be better at detecting fraud than government-run programs.

On the other hand, the private sector makes so much money, it doesn't have to waste time thinking of ways to defraud citizens.


So rig it more!
 
2012-11-19 12:36:58 PM
A large percentage of that is defensive medicine to avoid malpractice suits and claims. Maybe we should put a limit on that or make all malpractice suits go through a committee of medical professionals before going to trial... nah. That would never work. Medicine is 100% accurate. Should be able t sue for everything, right trial lawyers?
 
2012-11-19 12:45:17 PM

MyRandomName: A large percentage of that is defensive medicine to avoid malpractice suits and claims.


[citation needed]
 
2012-11-19 12:59:44 PM

guilt by association: MyRandomName: A large percentage of that is defensive medicine to avoid malpractice suits and claims.

[citation needed]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_medicine

I'm not going to bother wrapping that up in HTML because it's bloody obvious. Every time a doctor prescribes antibiotics for the flu, most cat scans, a good chunk of ECG applications. Even the time I went in for stitches and the hospital sent me a bill for unspecified lab work that didn't happen. Okay, that last one was straight billing fraud
 
2012-11-19 01:01:04 PM

guilt by association: MyRandomName: A large percentage of that is defensive medicine to avoid malpractice suits and claims.

[citation needed]


Seriously? Link
 
2012-11-19 01:04:19 PM
Things cost what they cost because we say so and no, the books are sealed so you can't see them, so shut up and give us your house or you'll never get your surgical procedure..
 
2012-11-19 01:23:21 PM
see Obamacare is working already!
 
2012-11-19 01:28:44 PM

Heraclitus: see Obamacare is working already!


-286345872684598729347596486547 / 10. Please see the proctor for your grade.
 
2012-11-19 01:56:27 PM
As someone who used to work in healthcare, I can tell you the whole industry is pretty farked up (in the higher-ups; the doctors and nurses do usually care a lot about their patients). A lot of CEOs in healthcare gave a ton of money to Democrat candidates (and lobbyists) to pass the stimulus bill so they would get a chunk of that money. They also are huge fans of Obamacare, because now it means a ton more money for them.
 
2012-11-19 02:21:05 PM

guilt by association: MyRandomName: A large percentage of that is defensive medicine to avoid malpractice suits and claims.

[citation needed]


Most recent studies indicate defensive medicine costs about 45 billion per year, which actually is much less than most people/doctors/agencies assumed. I can't find a publicly available source for that study, but the abstract is here and the mainstream report is here
 
2012-11-19 02:24:04 PM
My recent experience with HMO - these are the steps the insurance company has mandated the medical practitioners take (instead of allowing them to practice medicine as they were trained):
My shoulder suddenly developed pain and lack of motion. Go to GP. Got Xray; insurance company mandates he refer me to PT. PT determined I am not faking, prescribed certain exercises. Exersices don't help; insurance company mandates they refer me back to GP who then has permission to refer me to orthopedist.
Although the copay is the smallest item of concern to me, let me just tell you this to demonstrate further ridiculousness:
GP - $40. PT $40. Back to GP $40. Orthopedist $40.

/Death to the third-party! Death to insurance companies who, in effect, practice medicine without a license!
 
2012-11-19 02:24:25 PM

gingerjet: Assuming if true $765 billion is a large scary number. Meant to frighten little boys and old white people. But what is total amount we spend on health care in a year? And what percentage of that is "waste"? And fraud? The article provides no context to any of these numbers and no one can make a judgement based on this.


Last time I saw numbers the Medicare budget was around $600 billion, the Medicaid number state-by-state a somewhat smaller amount, and the total private health insurance business around $2.6 trillion.

Fraud numbers were in the $50-75b range for Medicare, 5-15% for Medicaid depending on how much each state cares about oversight (they don't care too much if the right legislators are bought), and $50-160b for private insurance (which is working from a far larger pool of money).

Nobody wants to give firmer numbers because it would be embarrassing.
 
2012-11-19 02:28:52 PM
You can't effecitvely eliminate the waste in health care until the people using health care are confronted with the costs of health care. My kid broke her hand recently. In addition to getting the bone set, there were 3 completely pointless follow up visits. But insurance paid for them, so I didn't care (even if they were a waste of my time). The total bill was around $5000, of which I paid $30. By contrast, I took my dog to the vet because he ate some things he shouldn't have. They made him throw up and sent us on our way 20 minutes later for $70. Because I'm paying my dog's bills out of pocket.
 
2012-11-19 02:45:12 PM

bunner: Heraclitus: see Obamacare is working already!

-286345872684598729347596486547 / 10. Please see the proctor for your grade.


And the proctologist for his head.
 
2012-11-19 02:45:15 PM

NewWorldDan: You can't effecitvely eliminate the waste in health care until the people using health care are confronted with the costs of health care. My kid broke her hand recently. In addition to getting the bone set, there were 3 completely pointless follow up visits. But insurance paid for them, so I didn't care (even if they were a waste of my time). The total bill was around $5000, of which I paid $30. By contrast, I took my dog to the vet because he ate some things he shouldn't have. They made him throw up and sent us on our way 20 minutes later for $70. Because I'm paying my dog's bills out of pocket.


So in your world, people never develop complications after having a bone set? No one gets spurs, or has a nascent infection (that would show up, sure, but once pain/damage sets in, you risk serious injury) or has the bone knit incorrectly - it's all completely pointless. That sound right? In retrospect, you may want to think of them as pointless, but the point was to check and be sure no complications showed up, and for 3 extra copays (for me, $45), I'd say that's well spent.

Also because we build in safeguards to make sure people treatment works; we're less concerned with veterinary medicine (as a rule; four-legged friends are important, but people-care has more exacting standards).

Also, the costs of veterinary care are fast approaching those of people-care.
 
2012-11-19 03:41:03 PM
All those pretty pictures and statues and stuff that we have around the hospital..... guess why your hospital bill costs so much?

I work in a hospital, a "not for profit" *insert eye roll* and the waste is horrifying. I'd rather go back to the days of the institutional green walls and concrete floors and not have to pay out the wazoo for everything. Now it's all "ambiance." Whatever. Stuff can be taken care of in a bland green room with no pictures as well as it can in a fancy suite.
 
2012-11-19 05:56:46 PM

QueenMamaBee: All those pretty pictures and statues and stuff that we have around the hospital..... guess why your hospital bill costs so much?

I work in a hospital, a "not for profit" *insert eye roll* and the waste is horrifying. I'd rather go back to the days of the institutional green walls and concrete floors and not have to pay out the wazoo for everything. Now it's all "ambiance." Whatever. Stuff can be taken care of in a bland green room with no pictures as well as it can in a fancy suite.


lol
 
2012-11-19 05:57:23 PM

QueenMamaBee: All those pretty pictures and statues and stuff that we have around the hospital..... guess why your hospital bill costs so much?

I work in a hospital, a "not for profit" *insert eye roll* and the waste is horrifying. I'd rather go back to the days of the institutional green walls and concrete floors and not have to pay out the wazoo for everything. Now it's all "ambiance." Whatever. Stuff can be taken care of in a bland green room with no pictures as well as it can in a fancy suite.


You sound like a lot of fun!
 
2012-11-19 05:58:33 PM
bunner


Things cost what they cost because we say so and no, the books are sealed so you can't see them, so shut up and give us your house or you'll never get your surgical procedure..


Books aren't sealed, just ask what the procedures cost if you are paying cash. Medicaid and Medicare pay an established rate for each procedure, usually below what it costs the hospital to provide the procedure. Insurance companies negotiate a rate for each procedure usually for more than the medicaid rate but less than the cash rate. The rate is for the procedure and hospital stay regardless of how long you stay in the hospital. This is why most hospitals try to get you out as soon as possible.
 
2012-11-19 06:06:08 PM
highendmighty


My recent experience with HMO - these are the steps the insurance company has mandated the medical practitioners take (instead of allowing them to practice medicine as they were trained):
My shoulder suddenly developed pain and lack of motion. Go to GP. Got Xray; insurance company mandates he refer me to PT. PT determined I am not faking, prescribed certain exercises. Exersices don't help; insurance company mandates they refer me back to GP who then has permission to refer me to orthopedist.
Although the copay is the smallest item of concern to me, let me just tell you this to demonstrate further ridiculousness:
GP - $40. PT $40. Back to GP $40. Orthopedist $40.

/Death to the third-party! Death to insurance companies who, in effect, practice medicine without a license!


Let me summarize this, you got your shoulder fixed for $160, you're out of pain and now your biatching about $160.

Seems logical steps they took to try to keep the actual cost down along the way
 
2012-11-19 06:13:54 PM

Buffalo77: highendmighty


My recent experience with HMO - these are the steps the insurance company has mandated the medical practitioners take (instead of allowing them to practice medicine as they were trained):
My shoulder suddenly developed pain and lack of motion. Go to GP. Got Xray; insurance company mandates he refer me to PT. PT determined I am not faking, prescribed certain exercises. Exersices don't help; insurance company mandates they refer me back to GP who then has permission to refer me to orthopedist.
Although the copay is the smallest item of concern to me, let me just tell you this to demonstrate further ridiculousness:
GP - $40. PT $40. Back to GP $40. Orthopedist $40.

/Death to the third-party! Death to insurance companies who, in effect, practice medicine without a license!

Let me summarize this, you got your shoulder fixed for $160, you're out of pain and now your biatching about $160.

Seems logical steps they took to try to keep the actual cost down along the way


Except they paid four doctors instead of just the Orthopedist. Strong work.
 
2012-11-19 06:33:44 PM

SlothB77: U.S. health care system wastes $765 billion a year.

You think its bad now? Just wait to see what the number is in ten years when the same guys who are are hemorraging $16B a quarter now running the postal service are in charge of health care.


dingdingdingdingding!!! and the whole she-bang will collapse in a sink hole leaving us all farked way before its repaired.
 
Displayed 50 of 82 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report