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(The New York Times)   How to live without irony   (opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com) divider line 140
    More: Ironic, how to live  
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6999 clicks; posted to Geek » on 19 Nov 2012 at 11:55 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-19 08:36:56 AM
That sounds wonderful.
 
2012-11-19 08:42:14 AM
Yet another hipster bashing article.

1.bp.blogspot.com

Yeah, we covet hipster boys for making fun but the girls are just awesome.
 
2012-11-19 08:43:50 AM
Blah, blah, blah.
 
2012-11-19 09:06:30 AM
*fart noise*
 
2012-11-19 09:25:00 AM
dead tree media falling in the forest.
 
2012-11-19 09:32:46 AM
I've found the easiest way to avoid irony is to hang out in Fark threads with the Irony tag.

Which is ironic.
 
2012-11-19 09:51:35 AM
For many Americans born in the 1980s and 1990s - members of Generation Y, or Millennials - particularly middle-class Caucasians, irony is the primary mode with which daily life is dealt.

White people problems.
 
2012-11-19 09:55:14 AM
24.media.tumblr.com
25.media.tumblr.com
I'm not a hipster... I'm an Accidental Chinese Hipster.
 
2012-11-19 10:01:02 AM

Because People in power are Stupid: Yet another hipster bashing article.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 800x1363]

Yeah, we covet hipster boys for making fun but the girls are just awesome.


The girls would have been awesome dressed in anything. Those clothes don't make her look any better.
 
2012-11-19 10:40:31 AM

jaylectricity:
The girls would have been awesome dressed in anything. Those clothes don't make her look any better.


They make her look easy to older punk rockers like myself.

(I was into that before you were -is a great pickup line)
 
2012-11-19 11:22:33 AM
The author was 18 when Alanis Moriset released "Jagged Little" pill and is going to offer a critique on hipsters that includes this gem:

"The grunge movement was serious in its aesthetics and its attitude"

And isn't it moronic...don't ya think?
 
2012-11-19 11:23:14 AM
Yes, but isn't blood kind of dependent on it?
 
2012-11-19 11:26:07 AM
Oh, this is a gem. FTFA: Nonironic models include very young children, elderly people, deeply religious people, people with severe mental or physical disabilities

Isn't that ironic? Doncha think?
 
2012-11-19 12:01:06 PM
How to live without irony

Just take your clothes to the dry cleaners.

/No Tickey, no shirty
 
2012-11-19 12:07:32 PM

RexTalionis: For many Americans born in the 1980s and 1990s - members of Generation Y, or Millennials - particularly middle-class Caucasians, irony is the primary mode with which daily life is dealt.

White people problems.


I think it's more that Millennials are to farking lazy and stupid to come up with anything new on their own.
 
2012-11-19 12:12:54 PM

abhorrent1: RexTalionis: For many Americans born in the 1980s and 1990s - members of Generation Y, or Millennials - particularly middle-class Caucasians, irony is the primary mode with which daily life is dealt.

White people problems.

I think it's more that Millennials are to farking lazy and stupid to come up with anything new on their own.


You know, I was with the author right up until the point that she implied that Gen X apathy and slackertude was better than Gen Y irony.
 
2012-11-19 12:14:08 PM
Farkitall, you're missing the main point: That professor is a very attractive woman, and she can sing.
 
2012-11-19 12:16:35 PM

Doc Daneeka: abhorrent1: RexTalionis: For many Americans born in the 1980s and 1990s - members of Generation Y, or Millennials - particularly middle-class Caucasians, irony is the primary mode with which daily life is dealt.

White people problems.

I think it's more that Millennials are to farking lazy and stupid to come up with anything new on their own.

You know, I was with the author right up until the point that she implied that Gen X apathy and slackertude was better than Gen Y irony.


As a Gen X'er I will say that my apathy is totally better than
 
2012-11-19 12:17:36 PM
I dress like a hipster but only to be ironic because I am not a hipster.

/head asplode.
 
2012-11-19 12:19:39 PM
Oh boy.

Furthermore, the nostalgia cycles have become so short that we even try to inject the present moment with sentimentality, for example, by using certain digital filters to "pre-wash" photos with an aura of historicity. Nostalgia needs time. One cannot accelerate meaningful remembrance.

Paragraphs later....

Born in 1977, at the tail end of Generation X, I came of age in the 1990s, a decade that, bracketed neatly by two architectural crumblings - of the Berlin Wall in 1989 and the Twin Towers in 2001 - now seems relatively irony-free.

Oh man, remember when we were in middle school? Wasn't being 13 so much easier than being 23? Being a grown up sucks, guys.

The grunge movement was serious in its aesthetics and its attitude, with a combative stance against authority, which the punk movement had also embraced.

I too remember the deep, socially relevant messages contained within Sleep's Dopesmoker album.

In my perhaps over-nostalgic memory, feminism reached an unprecedented peak, environmentalist concerns gained widespread attention, questions of race were more openly addressed: all of these stirrings contained within them the same electricity and euphoria touching generations that witness a centennial or millennial changeover.

We had Captain Planet and a hippie chick named Kennedy on MTV. Kennedy! She only had one name, and it was a masculine-sounding last name! We were so edgy then!

FROM this vantage, the ironic clique appears simply too comfortable, too brainlessly compliant. Ironic living is a first-world problem.

Your entire article describes a first world problem.

I don't know which is worse these days, the entitled, teatard baby boomers, or their entitled, ironic hister kids and grandkids.
 
2012-11-19 12:20:27 PM
Christy Wampole is an assistant professor of French at Princeton University. Her research focuses primarily on 20th- and 21st-century French and Italian literature and thought.

A professor of literature and thought decrying those who devote too much of their attention to commenting on what's gone before?

Delicious.
 
2012-11-19 12:22:55 PM
blogs.ajc.com
I don't want to!
 
2012-11-19 12:27:20 PM
that was a refreshing read. all this time i thought my disgust and hatred of hipsters stemmed from their fetishising of nostalgia and annoying lack of authenticity in their style and interests, which tend to overlap with things that i actually care about.

now it feels closer to hating the symptoms of a grandiose and widespread mental illness overtaking our youth.
 
2012-11-19 12:34:11 PM
This man needs to move out of the city.
 
2012-11-19 12:37:02 PM

jso2897: This man needs to move out of the city.


What?
 
2012-11-19 12:42:01 PM
Hipsters already live "without irony"... they dress and act EXACTLY like we expect them to...which is the opposite of what the word "irony" actually means.
 
2012-11-19 12:42:23 PM
Can one be a hipster without doing things ironically?

I've been called a hipster, but I don't do things with intent to cause irony.
 
2012-11-19 12:50:20 PM

jso2897: This man needs to move out of the city.


The author is a lady, but yes. Moving out of a locus of "style fixation" would quickly amend what's wrong with these people.
 
2012-11-19 12:54:40 PM
Born in 1977, at the tail end of Generation X, I came of age in the 1990s, a decade that, bracketed neatly by two architectural crumblings - of the Berlin Wall in 1989 and the Twin Towers in 2001 - now seems relatively irony-free. The grunge movement was serious in its aesthetics and its attitude, with a combative stance against authority, which the punk movement had also embraced...
...
...FROM this vantage, the ironic clique appears simply too comfortable, too brainlessly compliant. Ironic living is a first-world problem. For the relatively well educated and financially secure, irony functions as a kind of credit card you never have to pay back. In other words, the hipster can frivolously invest in sham social capital without ever paying back one sincere dime. He doesn't own anything he possesses.


SO MUCH THIS. Very well put...I don't think I've ever seen the irritation Gen-Xers feel toward hipster millennials explained so clearly. Hipsters are, in a way, the embodiment of everything we hated.
 
2012-11-19 12:57:34 PM
New York Times? That means quality journalism...
 
2012-11-19 12:58:25 PM
The author sounds like an aging hipster :)

The caricature presented is easily hated. Takes only a passing interest in things, tries to be a trend setter when they are oblivious to the fact they are following a trend. Oh, how I have heard that before.

It's just more of the "my generation was the best generation, this new generation sucks" (with the possible addition of "all the world's problems are the previous generations fault") that we've heard for generation after generation after generation.

And this new generation of hipsters will be lamenting their kids and grandkids culture and identity, interspersed with exclamations of "Get off my lawn".
 
2012-11-19 12:59:21 PM
It's really simple.

If you like something, OWN THE FACT THAT YOU LIKE IT.

If you don't like something, OWN THE FACT THAT YOU DON'T LIKE IT.

"Ironically" liking something you hate is a waste of energy at best, and gutless at worst (in the event that you truly do like it but don't want to appear sincere).
 
2012-11-19 01:05:03 PM
I'm sorry, but no hobby can be ironic. Idiosyncratic maybe, but unless you're making shirts with pro-vegan messages out of ground kittens it's not an ironic habit.
 
2012-11-19 01:05:42 PM

doyner: The author was 18 when Alanis Moriset released "Jagged Little" pill and is going to offer a critique on hipsters that includes this gem:

"The grunge movement was serious in its aesthetics and its attitude"

And isn't it moronic...don't ya think?


Allanis Morissette wasn't grunge. Ssssooo...

/would be like judging millenials based on Carly Rae Jepsen
 
2012-11-19 01:10:00 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: It's really simple.

If you like something, OWN THE FACT THAT YOU LIKE IT.

If you don't like something, OWN THE FACT THAT YOU DON'T LIKE IT.

"Ironically" liking something you hate is a waste of energy at best, and gutless at worst (in the event that you truly do like it but don't want to appear sincere).


Have you met this person you dislike in real life, or only the online stereotype?

I live in a virtual mecca of hipsterdom (Eugene, OR), and I have yet to meet this person that does something they hate just to appear ironic. They own the things they like, and get rather defensive about it too.

Maybe it's the clothes? Are we pissed that young kids are wearing Pink Floyd concert tees while never having attended one of their concerts and maybe not liking "The Wall" while prancing about in skinny jeans, flip flops, and a fedora?
 
2012-11-19 01:12:30 PM

meat0918: The author sounds like an aging hipster :)

The caricature presented is easily hated. Takes only a passing interest in things, tries to be a trend setter when they are oblivious to the fact they are following a trend. Oh, how I have heard that before.


Except that's not at all what she's complaining about. She is complaining about those who refuse to define where they stand or what they like, because they hide it all behind irony. It's not disliking them for a trend, or "trying too hard to be different"...it's disliking them for intellectual and social bullsh*tting as a childish means of avoiding any sort of derision.

I think it's a symptom of a lot of these kids being raised to all think they're special...not "special" in the way that everyone is "special", but special as in better than everybody else. They grow up soft, hit the real world, and cannot take criticism. So they hide behind irony, or whatever you want to call the phenomenon to which the term has been somewhat mis-applied.
 
2012-11-19 01:13:09 PM
unrealitymag.com

I like hipsterism. It means I can go out in public dressed in my Star Trek dress uniform and if anyone asks, it's totally ironic.

Incidentally:
25.media.tumblr.com
4.bp.blogspot.com
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-11-19 01:18:04 PM
Author sounds like Fat Apollo.

i.imgur.com
 
2012-11-19 01:18:29 PM

abhorrent1: RexTalionis: For many Americans born in the 1980s and 1990s - members of Generation Y, or Millennials - particularly middle-class Caucasians, irony is the primary mode with which daily life is dealt.

White people problems.

I think it's more that Millennials are to farking lazy and stupid to come up with anything new on their own.


And they should get off your lawn!

Same shiat, different generation. When are we going to learn that similar things were said about the Silent, the Greatest, the Boomers, the Xers, and now the Mellinals. You know what I took out of that article blah, blah, blah, I don't understand young people because I'm old.
 
2012-11-19 01:18:40 PM

meat0918: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: It's really simple.

If you like something, OWN THE FACT THAT YOU LIKE IT.

If you don't like something, OWN THE FACT THAT YOU DON'T LIKE IT.

"Ironically" liking something you hate is a waste of energy at best, and gutless at worst (in the event that you truly do like it but don't want to appear sincere).

Have you met this person you dislike in real life, or only the online stereotype?

I live in a virtual mecca of hipsterdom (Eugene, OR), and I have yet to meet this person that does something they hate just to appear ironic. They own the things they like, and get rather defensive about it too.

Maybe it's the clothes? Are we pissed that young kids are wearing Pink Floyd concert tees while never having attended one of their concerts and maybe not liking "The Wall" while prancing about in skinny jeans, flip flops, and a fedora?


I have met many such people. And it's not Pink Floyd shirts, but if I see a guy wearing, say, a "Hootie and the Blowfish" shirt (real recent example), that's the cowardice. "Hi, look at me, I hate the same thing as everyone, aren't I ridiculous! Har har." Again, it's a shield against criticism. It's an irritating psychological weakness, not a fashion judgement.
 
2012-11-19 01:18:53 PM

Stratohead: Hipsters already live "without irony"... they dress and act EXACTLY like we expect them to...which is the opposite of what the word "irony" actually means.


wildcardjack: I'm sorry, but no hobby can be ironic. Idiosyncratic maybe, but unless you're making shirts with pro-vegan messages out of ground kittens it's not an ironic habit.


I think you folks are confusing dramatic or situational irony with verbal irony.

When people say that hipsters are being ironic, they mean the latter. The opposite of verbal irony is authenticity or sincerity. The way hipsters express themselves is ironic. The clothes they wear, the beer they drink, the activities they partake, are all intended as means of self-expression, only these expressions are not meant authentically. Hipsters don't actually like the things they like. That's why it's ironic.
 
2012-11-19 01:20:17 PM

RexTalionis: [unrealitymag.com image 600x400]

I like hipsterism. It means I can go out in public dressed in my Star Trek dress uniform and if anyone asks, it's totally ironic.

Incidentally:
[25.media.tumblr.com image 467x700]
[4.bp.blogspot.com image 500x375]
[24.media.tumblr.com image 393x600]


The f*ck is going on with Lt. Commander Michael Myers there? God that's a creepy mask.
 
2012-11-19 01:22:10 PM
When I look at a hipster, I wonder if she/he knows that she/he is a hipster.
 
2012-11-19 01:22:20 PM

Doc Daneeka: Stratohead: Hipsters already live "without irony"... they dress and act EXACTLY like we expect them to...which is the opposite of what the word "irony" actually means.

wildcardjack: I'm sorry, but no hobby can be ironic. Idiosyncratic maybe, but unless you're making shirts with pro-vegan messages out of ground kittens it's not an ironic habit.

I think you folks are confusing dramatic or situational irony with verbal irony.

When people say that hipsters are being ironic, they mean the latter. The opposite of verbal irony is authenticity or sincerity. The way hipsters express themselves is ironic. The clothes they wear, the beer they drink, the activities they partake, are all intended as means of self-expression, only these expressions are not meant authentically. Hipsters don't actually like the things they like. That's why it's ironic.


And irritating. You forgot irritating.

It's stunning that it's been going on so long now that some people apparently don't even know how to spot it.
 
2012-11-19 01:23:29 PM

RexTalionis: [unrealitymag.com image 600x400]

I like hipsterism. It means I can go out in public dressed in my Star Trek dress uniform and if anyone asks, it's totally ironic.

Incidentally:
[25.media.tumblr.com image 467x700]
[4.bp.blogspot.com image 500x375]
[24.media.tumblr.com image 393x600]


anomalycentral.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-11-19 01:24:00 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: meat0918: The author sounds like an aging hipster :)

The caricature presented is easily hated. Takes only a passing interest in things, tries to be a trend setter when they are oblivious to the fact they are following a trend. Oh, how I have heard that before.

Except that's not at all what she's complaining about. She is complaining about those who refuse to define where they stand or what they like, because they hide it all behind irony. It's not disliking them for a trend, or "trying too hard to be different"...it's disliking them for intellectual and social bullsh*tting as a childish means of avoiding any sort of derision.

I think it's a symptom of a lot of these kids being raised to all think they're special...not "special" in the way that everyone is "special", but special as in better than everybody else. They grow up soft, hit the real world, and cannot take criticism. So they hide behind irony, or whatever you want to call the phenomenon to which the term has been somewhat mis-applied.


See, I still haven't met these kids. The ones that dress like the stereotypical hipster define very clearly where they stand. There might be some youthful exuberance and the idea that they might be the first to come up with something. Maybe I'm just to far removed from things anymore. But hell, I'm only 32. Maybe instead I'm too close to the dividing line between generations to see such a distinction.

I have met a few of the younger ones that can't take criticism, but I would hardly call them hipsters, and it's sad to watch them deflate a bit. But I've met many people of all ages that can't take criticism and hide behind whatever excuse they can come up with.

I'll take deflation over yelling and cursing and threats of physical violence(another story altogether) any day of the week though.
 
2012-11-19 01:24:55 PM

cgraves67: jso2897: This man needs to move out of the city.
The author is a lady, but yes. Moving out of a locus of "style fixation" would quickly amend what's wrong with these people.


And get off the internet. I think there's millions of people out there desperately searching the internet to find what's "in" so they can be over it before anyone else can.

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Except that's not at all what she's complaining about. She is complaining about those who refuse to define where they stand or what they like, because they hide it all behind irony. It's not disliking them for a trend, or "trying too hard to be different"...it's disliking them for intellectual and social bullsh*tting as a childish means of avoiding any sort of derision.
I think it's a symptom of a lot of these kids being raised to all think they're special...not "special" in the way that everyone is "special", but special as in better than everybody else. They grow up soft, hit the real world, and cannot take criticism. So they hide behind irony, or whatever you want to call the phenomenon to which the term has been somewhat mis-applied.


Hmmm. OK. Thank god I don't have any idea what this shiat is all about. And I'm too old to care.
One of the advantages of getting older--you don't give a fark how you appear to everyone else. I have real problems.
 
2012-11-19 01:27:45 PM
About halfway down, tangentially related:

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/making_things
 
2012-11-19 01:28:15 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: meat0918: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: It's really simple.

If you like something, OWN THE FACT THAT YOU LIKE IT.

If you don't like something, OWN THE FACT THAT YOU DON'T LIKE IT.

"Ironically" liking something you hate is a waste of energy at best, and gutless at worst (in the event that you truly do like it but don't want to appear sincere).

Have you met this person you dislike in real life, or only the online stereotype?

I live in a virtual mecca of hipsterdom (Eugene, OR), and I have yet to meet this person that does something they hate just to appear ironic. They own the things they like, and get rather defensive about it too.

Maybe it's the clothes? Are we pissed that young kids are wearing Pink Floyd concert tees while never having attended one of their concerts and maybe not liking "The Wall" while prancing about in skinny jeans, flip flops, and a fedora?

I have met many such people. And it's not Pink Floyd shirts, but if I see a guy wearing, say, a "Hootie and the Blowfish" shirt (real recent example), that's the cowardice. "Hi, look at me, I hate the same thing as everyone, aren't I ridiculous! Har har." Again, it's a shield against criticism. It's an irritating psychological weakness, not a fashion judgement.


Just wearing the shirt makes you judge that much about them? Or is there more to the story you didn't post?

They could actually like Hootie, and geeked out and got excited when the found the T-Shirt at the store.
 
2012-11-19 01:32:24 PM

meat0918: Can one be a hipster without doing things ironically?

I've been called a hipster, but I don't do things with intent to cause irony.


So you're just a poser then?
 
2012-11-19 01:38:01 PM

meat0918: I live in a virtual mecca of hipsterdom (Eugene, OR), and I have yet to meet this person that does something they hate just to appear ironic. They own the things they like, and get rather defensive about it too.

Maybe it's the clothes? Are we pissed that young kids are wearing Pink Floyd concert tees while never having attended one of their concerts and maybe not liking "The Wall" while prancing about in skinny jeans, flip flops, and a fedora?

I have met many such people. And it's not Pink Floyd shirts, but if I see a guy wearing, say, a "Hootie and the Blowfish" shirt (real recent example), that's the cowardice. "Hi, look at me, I hate the same thing as everyone, aren't I ridiculous! Har har." Again, it's a shield against criticism. It's an irritating psychological weakness, not a fashion judgement.

Just wearing the shirt makes you judge that much about them? Or is there more to the story you didn't post?

They could actually like Hootie, and geeked out and got excited when the found the T-Shirt at the store.


Likewise, I've never seen Pink Floyd live, but I do have a DSotM shirt.

I still don't get the supposed hipster mindset. I would tend to believe they're liking things that not a lot of people like, but they end up all liking the same thing in the "hipster" group. No one wears clothing, eats, drinks, listens to, reads, watches shiat they don't like. Gawd, I really hate, Katy Perry, but I own and listen to her albums all the time. She is just so grating!"

This hipster fashion and indie bands are a marketing tool and they tried to make it cool, but its not. So now we got a bunch of people who are doing the same thing that the "goths" were derided for in the 80s-00s (trying to look like a unique snowflake, but ha ha you look like everyone else who's trying not to look like everyone else). Now the kids are listening to Dillenger Escape Plan while wearing their tweed fedoras, complaining that no one understands how awesome their favorite band is like and how their so unique. And so is every other hipster. Except this time around, they're saying its ironic, so they actually don't like tweed fedoras and Dillenger Escape Plan?
 
2012-11-19 01:38:26 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: doyner: The author was 18 when Alanis Moriset released "Jagged Little" pill and is going to offer a critique on hipsters that includes this gem:

"The grunge movement was serious in its aesthetics and its attitude"

And isn't it moronic...don't ya think?

Allanis Morissette wasn't grunge. Ssssooo...

/would be like judging millenials based on Carly Rae Jepsen


I wasn't suggesting she was grunge. I was pointing out that her [my] generation was equally "ironic." The A.M. reference was to her age...and a set-up for the punchline. Ten would have been released when she was 14.
 
2012-11-19 01:39:55 PM

Wittenberg Dropout: meat0918: Can one be a hipster without doing things ironically?

I've been called a hipster, but I don't do things with intent to cause irony.

So you're just a poser then?


I do most things I do because I enjoy the activity or I enjoy the result of doing them in the case of less than pleasant activities.

I still play video games even though some people say I'm "too old" (because F.E.A.R., Diablo 3, and Skyrim are a kid's games apparently).

I may hate housework, but I enjoy a clean house.

I may dislike yardwork, but having a nicely edged and mowed path looks better than an overgrown one.
 
2012-11-19 01:40:47 PM

meat0918: The author sounds like an aging hipster :)

The caricature presented is easily hated. Takes only a passing interest in things, tries to be a trend setter when they are oblivious to the fact they are following a trend. Oh, how I have heard that before.

It's just more of the "my generation was the best generation, this new generation sucks" (with the possible addition of "all the world's problems are the previous generations fault") that we've heard for generation after generation after generation.

And this new generation of hipsters will be lamenting their kids and grandkids culture and identity, interspersed with exclamations of "Get off my lawn".


Yeah this is a woman who hates hipsters from afar based on their ironic fashion choices and the assumption that they take nothing in life seriously and speak only in a series of ironic quips. I think there is something to be said of irony and hipster dress being attempts at self defense in not wanting to assume an accepted fashion clique or be taken too seriously in what you say in friendly banter. But if you sat and talked to most hipsters, or people in general, I think it wouldn't take long to see that they can have a non-ironic conversation with you and they do consider things outside an ironic slant.

No two hipsters are the same and I can say from experience I've loved and hated many hipsters. Some were assholes, some were overly sarcastic and cynical, but most were just people living their lives, trying to appreciate art and fashion ignored by the mainstream because their either bored with the mainstream or they were wronged by adherents of the mainstream. I really can't wait until it's no longer hip to hate on the hipsters.
 
2012-11-19 01:44:16 PM

dehehn: I think there is something to be said of irony and hipster dress being attempts at self defense in not wanting to assume an accepted fashion clique...


Yup. Dressing uniquely.

Like everyone else.
 
2012-11-19 01:44:20 PM

mat catastrophe: About halfway down, tangentially related:

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/making_things


I'd say that's right farking on point.

Are you trying to be ironic?
 
2012-11-19 01:44:56 PM

dehehn: meat0918: The author sounds like an aging hipster :)

The caricature presented is easily hated. Takes only a passing interest in things, tries to be a trend setter when they are oblivious to the fact they are following a trend. Oh, how I have heard that before.

It's just more of the "my generation was the best generation, this new generation sucks" (with the possible addition of "all the world's problems are the previous generations fault") that we've heard for generation after generation after generation.

And this new generation of hipsters will be lamenting their kids and grandkids culture and identity, interspersed with exclamations of "Get off my lawn".

Yeah this is a woman who hates hipsters from afar based on their ironic fashion choices and the assumption that they take nothing in life seriously and speak only in a series of ironic quips. I think there is something to be said of irony and hipster dress being attempts at self defense in not wanting to assume an accepted fashion clique or be taken too seriously in what you say in friendly banter. But if you sat and talked to most hipsters, or people in general, I think it wouldn't take long to see that they can have a non-ironic conversation with you and they do consider things outside an ironic slant.

No two hipsters are the same and I can say from experience I've loved and hated many hipsters. Some were assholes, some were overly sarcastic and cynical, but most were just people living their lives, trying to appreciate art and fashion ignored by the mainstream because their either bored with the mainstream or they were wronged by adherents of the mainstream. I really can't wait until it's no longer hip to hate on the hipsters.


Give it 10-15 years, and the hipsters of today will be writing articles like this and places like Fark will be hating on whatever it is the 15-25 year old brigade of that time period likes.
 
2012-11-19 01:57:29 PM

Celerian: I still don't get the supposed hipster mindset. I would tend to believe they're liking things that not a lot of people like, but they end up all liking the same thing in the "hipster" group. No one wears clothing, eats, drinks, listens to, reads, watches shiat they don't like. Gawd, I really hate, Katy Perry, but I own and listen to her albums all the time. She is just so grating!"


But that's exactly what they do.

They don't drink PBR because they think it's good beer. They drink it because it's bad beer.

They like things that are bad, corny, of low quality, kitschy, in poor taste, etc.

Like when you enjoy an MST3K movie - not because it's great art, but because it's bad art. Except taken to an extreme and made into a lifestyle.
 
2012-11-19 01:57:33 PM
I have to be honest- I'm really enjoying these rice crackers I'm eating.
 
2012-11-19 02:13:42 PM

Doc Daneeka: Celerian: I still don't get the supposed hipster mindset. I would tend to believe they're liking things that not a lot of people like, but they end up all liking the same thing in the "hipster" group. No one wears clothing, eats, drinks, listens to, reads, watches shiat they don't like. Gawd, I really hate, Katy Perry, but I own and listen to her albums all the time. She is just so grating!"

But that's exactly what they do.

They don't drink PBR because they think it's good beer. They drink it because it's bad beer.

They like things that are bad, corny, of low quality, kitschy, in poor taste, etc.

Like when you enjoy an MST3K movie - not because it's great art, but because it's bad art. Except taken to an extreme and made into a lifestyle.


You just contradicted yourself. If they like bad things, then they like it.

A normal person: "Natty Light is bad beer and I'm not going to drink it, unless maybe I'm at a college party and its all we can afford/get our hands on."
A Hipster: "Natty Light is really bad, but I kinda like it. Also I'm cool because I'm going against the mainstream."
A psychopath: "Natty Light is disgusting, I hate it, but it's all i'm going to drink. Also, I may be a masochist and I think I'm bleeding internally."

I like MST3K. Yeah, its bad art. At least, the movies were. But the show is funny. if it was just a bad movie with no riffing, I wouldn't watch it. A slight exemption would be something like Plan 9 From Outer Space, a movie so bad that its actually comical. Some people could like that, acknowledging that its horribly done. But then you even acknowledge that you LIKE it even though its BAD. And that's where the definition of Hipster gets messed up. Because they either really do like the things that they're subjecting themselves too, regardless of what other people think, or they are psychopaths who subject themselves to things even though they don't like it.

I hate listening to Nails On A Chalkboard, but since no one else likes listening to Nails On A Chalkboard, its all i'm going to listen to. ironically, of course. That is psychopathic behavior.
 
2012-11-19 02:22:36 PM
I've always disliked hipsters but could never quite put a finger on why. That article was very illuminating. If you dress goth, or punk, or grunge or whatever, you're trying to say something. When you dress hipster, you're saying nothing. It's nonconformist I guess, but with nothing to say... just random and meaningless, almost nihilistic. That just feels wrong deep in my psyche. It's like not having a personality.
 
2012-11-19 02:28:36 PM

Doc Daneeka: Celerian: I still don't get the supposed hipster mindset. I would tend to believe they're liking things that not a lot of people like, but they end up all liking the same thing in the "hipster" group. No one wears clothing, eats, drinks, listens to, reads, watches shiat they don't like. Gawd, I really hate, Katy Perry, but I own and listen to her albums all the time. She is just so grating!"

But that's exactly what they do.

They don't drink PBR because they think it's good beer. They drink it because it's bad beer.

They like things that are bad, corny, of low quality, kitschy, in poor taste, etc.

Like when you enjoy an MST3K movie - not because it's great art, but because it's bad art. Except taken to an extreme and made into a lifestyle.


The appeal of MST3K is ridiculing bad art, not pretending to like it. And the rest of your response is contradictory...

Celerian: "No one wears clothing, eats, drinks, listens to, reads, watches shiat they don't like."

Doc Daneeka: "But that's exactly what they do... They like things that are bad, corny, of low quality, kitschy, in poor taste, etc.
 
2012-11-19 02:33:02 PM

MacWizard: Doc Daneeka: Celerian: I still don't get the supposed hipster mindset. I would tend to believe they're liking things that not a lot of people like, but they end up all liking the same thing in the "hipster" group. No one wears clothing, eats, drinks, listens to, reads, watches shiat they don't like. Gawd, I really hate, Katy Perry, but I own and listen to her albums all the time. She is just so grating!"

But that's exactly what they do.

They don't drink PBR because they think it's good beer. They drink it because it's bad beer.

They like things that are bad, corny, of low quality, kitschy, in poor taste, etc.

Like when you enjoy an MST3K movie - not because it's great art, but because it's bad art. Except taken to an extreme and made into a lifestyle.

The appeal of MST3K is ridiculing bad art, not pretending to like it. And the rest of your response is contradictory...

Celerian: "No one wears clothing, eats, drinks, listens to, reads, watches shiat they don't like."

Doc Daneeka: "But that's exactly what they do... They like things that are bad, corny, of low quality, kitschy, in poor taste, etc.


Right, so I'm correct in saying that the Hipster mindset is obviously that of a crazy person. If they force themselves to wear/do/eat/listen/watch things they don't like. When i ran around dressing like a goth, I liked doing it. I liked listening to New Wave and Industrial bands. I still listen to New Wave and Industrial. I still dress in mostly black (certainly not as gaudy anymore, though).
 
2012-11-19 02:43:17 PM
I will agree with the author on one thing. The Millennial hipster attitude is the Gen X attitude taken to 11. I think that might generate a backlash in the next generation where they think about things more seriously and are maybe more willing to define their own culture. Pretty much everything in this generation is just a rehash of the 80's and I don't think the 90's were interesting enough to rehash.
 
2012-11-19 02:45:17 PM

Zombalupagus: I've always disliked hipsters but could never quite put a finger on why. That article was very illuminating. If you dress goth, or punk, or grunge or whatever, you're trying to say something. When you dress hipster, you're saying nothing. It's nonconformist I guess, but with nothing to say... just random and meaningless, almost nihilistic. That just feels wrong deep in my psyche. It's like not having a personality.


It's like nihilism without the pain and despair.
 
2012-11-19 02:50:01 PM

Celerian: MacWizard: Doc Daneeka: Celerian: I still don't get the supposed hipster mindset. I would tend to believe they're liking things that not a lot of people like, but they end up all liking the same thing in the "hipster" group. No one wears clothing, eats, drinks, listens to, reads, watches shiat they don't like. Gawd, I really hate, Katy Perry, but I own and listen to her albums all the time. She is just so grating!"

But that's exactly what they do.

They don't drink PBR because they think it's good beer. They drink it because it's bad beer.

They like things that are bad, corny, of low quality, kitschy, in poor taste, etc.

Like when you enjoy an MST3K movie - not because it's great art, but because it's bad art. Except taken to an extreme and made into a lifestyle.

The appeal of MST3K is ridiculing bad art, not pretending to like it. And the rest of your response is contradictory...

Celerian: "No one wears clothing, eats, drinks, listens to, reads, watches shiat they don't like."

Doc Daneeka: "But that's exactly what they do... They like things that are bad, corny, of low quality, kitschy, in poor taste, etc.

Right, so I'm correct in saying that the Hipster mindset is obviously that of a crazy person. If they force themselves to wear/do/eat/listen/watch things they don't like. When i ran around dressing like a goth, I liked doing it. I liked listening to New Wave and Industrial bands. I still listen to New Wave and Industrial. I still dress in mostly black (certainly not as gaudy anymore, though).


The reason you don't get the supposed hipster mindset is because the hipster mindset you described doesn't exist.

Take your goth example. I liked it too. I had friends that did the whole goth thing. But I heard things about them like "Oh, they can't possibly like dressing in black all the time, they're just doing it to be different just like everyone else" as well as "Oh, they must be really depressed and hate themselves".

In my experience, these hipsters like what they are doing, despite all claims to the contrary.
 
2012-11-19 03:00:21 PM
In my experience, these hipsters like what they are doing, despite all claims to the contrary.

I don't doubt that they enjoy what their doing, or have come to love it. The problem is that they made the decision on what they wear/consume because that thing is bad or outside the mainstream, e.g. ironically. What they really enjoy isn't the stuff, but the sense of superiority they get by not being like everyone else.

What I most strongly dislike isn't the aesthetic, but that its such a lazy way of being different. Rather than cultivate personality or skill, they use irony as a tool to shortcut the possibility of external judgement.
 
2012-11-19 03:06:42 PM

asymptonic: In my experience, these hipsters like what they are doing, despite all claims to the contrary.

I don't doubt that they enjoy what their doing, or have come to love it. The problem is that they made the decision on what they wear/consume because that thing is bad or outside the mainstream, e.g. ironically. What they really enjoy isn't the stuff, but the sense of superiority they get by not being like everyone else.

What I most strongly dislike isn't the aesthetic, but that its such a lazy way of being different. Rather than cultivate personality or skill, they use irony as a tool to shortcut the possibility of external judgement.


So then they're not really being ironic if they like the stuff that they're wearing "ironically."

And if they don't enjoy the stuff, but like feeling superior for being different, then they're just being douchebags.
 
2012-11-19 03:13:16 PM
2.bp.blogspot.com

Christopher Hitchens frowns on your shenanigans...........
 
2012-11-19 03:13:38 PM

Celerian: asymptonic: In my experience, these hipsters like what they are doing, despite all claims to the contrary.

I don't doubt that they enjoy what their doing, or have come to love it. The problem is that they made the decision on what they wear/consume because that thing is bad or outside the mainstream, e.g. ironically. What they really enjoy isn't the stuff, but the sense of superiority they get by not being like everyone else.

What I most strongly dislike isn't the aesthetic, but that its such a lazy way of being different. Rather than cultivate personality or skill, they use irony as a tool to shortcut the possibility of external judgement.

So then they're not really being ironic if they like the stuff that they're wearing "ironically."


I think that can be true for some. I also think the group that we call hipsters contains a lot of people who came late to the movement and just picked up the aesthetic as ordinary "fashion". They certainly would non-ironically like the style. But you can't tell me the first guy to wear a trucker hat Brooklyn loved the style.


And if they don't enjoy the stuff, but like feeling superior for being different, then they're just being douchebags.


No argument here. Where's a good douchebag hate thread when you need one.
 
2012-11-19 03:14:57 PM

asymptonic: Celerian: asymptonic: In my experience, these hipsters like what they are doing, despite all claims to the contrary.

I don't doubt that they enjoy what their doing, or have come to love it. The problem is that they made the decision on what they wear/consume because that thing is bad or outside the mainstream, e.g. ironically. What they really enjoy isn't the stuff, but the sense of superiority they get by not being like everyone else.

What I most strongly dislike isn't the aesthetic, but that its such a lazy way of being different. Rather than cultivate personality or skill, they use irony as a tool to shortcut the possibility of external judgement.

So then they're not really being ironic if they like the stuff that they're wearing "ironically."

I think that can be true for some. I also think the group that we call hipsters contains a lot of people who came late to the movement and just picked up the aesthetic as ordinary "fashion". They certainly would non-ironically like the style. But you can't tell me the first guy to wear a trucker hat Brooklyn loved the style.


And if they don't enjoy the stuff, but like feeling superior for being different, then they're just being douchebags.

No argument here. Where's a good douchebag hate thread when you need one.


They confine those to the Politics and Entertainment tabs these days.
 
2012-11-19 03:19:12 PM

Doc Daneeka: They like things that are bad, corny, of low quality, kitschy, in poor taste, etc.


People have been fans of the kitsch for a long time. Much of John Waters career is based on kitch and corny and absurd. He even makes fun of it in his Simpsons episode. It is just a modern satire.
 
2012-11-19 03:25:46 PM

asymptonic: Celerian: asymptonic: In my experience, these hipsters like what they are doing, despite all claims to the contrary.

I don't doubt that they enjoy what their doing, or have come to love it. The problem is that they made the decision on what they wear/consume because that thing is bad or outside the mainstream, e.g. ironically. What they really enjoy isn't the stuff, but the sense of superiority they get by not being like everyone else.

What I most strongly dislike isn't the aesthetic, but that its such a lazy way of being different. Rather than cultivate personality or skill, they use irony as a tool to shortcut the possibility of external judgement.

So then they're not really being ironic if they like the stuff that they're wearing "ironically."

I think that can be true for some. I also think the group that we call hipsters contains a lot of people who came late to the movement and just picked up the aesthetic as ordinary "fashion". They certainly would non-ironically like the style. But you can't tell me the first guy to wear a trucker hat Brooklyn loved the style.


And if they don't enjoy the stuff, but like feeling superior for being different, then they're just being douchebags.

No argument here. Where's a good douchebag hate thread when you need one.


That's at least something we can all get behind.
 
2012-11-19 03:32:17 PM
I was ironic before it was cool.
 
2012-11-19 03:38:34 PM

big pig peaches: I was ironic before it was cool.


I was cool before it was ironic.
 
2012-11-19 03:41:48 PM

doyner: dehehn: I think there is something to be said of irony and hipster dress being attempts at self defense in not wanting to assume an accepted fashion clique...

Yup. Dressing uniquely.

Like everyone else.


jaypgreene.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-11-19 03:44:00 PM

jaylectricity: big pig peaches: I was ironic before it was cool.

I was cool before it was ironic.


Touchè.
 
2012-11-19 04:03:08 PM

big pig peaches: jaylectricity: big pig peaches: I was ironic before it was cool.

I was cool before it was ironic.

Touchè.


moblog.net
 
2012-11-19 04:11:52 PM
I made fun of hipsters before it was cool...
 
2012-11-19 04:16:20 PM

RexTalionis: Incidentally:


I totally want to make an NC-17 rated short starring the Andorian girl and my penis.
 
2012-11-19 04:26:57 PM

protectyourlimbs: I made fun of hipsters before it was cool...


I always thought they were posers, daddie O
 
2012-11-19 04:46:48 PM

Bacontastesgood: RexTalionis: Incidentally:

I totally want to make an NC-17 rated short starring the Andorian girl and my penis.


You can't spell NCC-1701 without NC-17.
 
2012-11-19 05:13:03 PM
dappered.com
R.I.P IRONING
 
2012-11-19 05:37:51 PM

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: I have to be honest- I'm really enjoying these rice crackers I'm eating.


Meh. I was eating rice crackers 25 years ago!

/they were good if you dipped them in chocolate
//Or if you were drunk enough.
 
2012-11-19 06:04:00 PM

Zombalupagus: I've always disliked hipsters but could never quite put a finger on why. That article was very illuminating. If you dress goth, or punk, or grunge or whatever, you're trying to say something. When you dress hipster, you're saying nothing. It's nonconformist I guess, but with nothing to say... just random and meaningless, almost nihilistic. That just feels wrong deep in my psyche. It's like not having a personality.


They weren't saying anything either. All those people grew up and got haircuts and jobs. Bunch of em outright became The Man.

I can see why kids getting their kicks without a self serving hypocritical lie underpinning it would bother someone like that.
 
2012-11-19 06:21:28 PM

alltim: RexTalionis: [unrealitymag.com image 600x400]

I like hipsterism. It means I can go out in public dressed in my Star Trek dress uniform and if anyone asks, it's totally ironic.

Incidentally:
[25.media.tumblr.com image 467x700]
[4.bp.blogspot.com image 500x375]
[24.media.tumblr.com image 393x600]


A true Vulcan would have the logic to put her camera down and use the autotimer to take that picture.
 
2012-11-19 06:24:13 PM

asymptonic: But you can't tell me the first guy to wear a trucker hat Brooklyn loved the style.


Why not? Maybe he didn't go "this looks good." He probably went, "this looks ridiculous on me. I want to look ridiculous." There are things that people like while acknowledging they aren't good. Professional Wrestling, the Mets, etc...

Holocaust Agnostic: Zombalupagus: I've always disliked hipsters but could never quite put a finger on why. That article was very illuminating. If you dress goth, or punk, or grunge or whatever, you're trying to say something. When you dress hipster, you're saying nothing. It's nonconformist I guess, but with nothing to say... just random and meaningless, almost nihilistic. That just feels wrong deep in my psyche. It's like not having a personality.

They weren't saying anything either. All those people grew up and got haircuts and jobs. Bunch of em outright became The Man.

I can see why kids getting their kicks without a self serving hypocritical lie underpinning it would bother someone like that.


Ayup. It's a lot more interesting to talk about what hipsterdom is responding to than it is to talk about why hipsters suck. Gen X saw lots of media blaring at them every two seconds and said "meh. By saying meh, I'm taking a stand against consumerism." Then a few years later, they were the blaring media and the consumers. More or less repeat this pattern for a while.

Today, hipsters see what happened to Gen X and go "screw it. If taking a stand doesn't work, I'll just look like a clown." It's pretty much the right response.
 
2012-11-19 06:27:47 PM
This is no laughing matter. As being a hipster becomes more an more acceptable, it will begin to merge into the mainstream. If the "ironic" stance remains intentionally separation from said mainstream, one would need to become become mainstream as an form of counter-culture against the mainstream. This will give rise to a sort of quantum hipster who occupies the states of ironic and completely serious simultaneously. Eventually, this metastability will collapse... and when it does, there will be nothing left of the Pacific Northwest but a smoking crater that smells like organic coffee.
 
2012-11-19 06:37:43 PM

ProfessorOhki: This is no laughing matter. As being a hipster becomes more an more acceptable, it will begin to merge into the mainstream. If the "ironic" stance remains intentionally separation from said mainstream, one would need to become become mainstream as an form of counter-culture against the mainstream. This will give rise to a sort of quantum hipster who occupies the states of ironic and completely serious simultaneously. Eventually, this metastability will collapse... and when it does, there will be nothing left of the Pacific Northwest but a smoking crater that smells like organic

stinks of steamed burnt coffee beans. FTFY
 
2012-11-19 06:45:59 PM
I don't believe I've ever met a hipster in person, at least not someone that I recognized as a hipster. But if I ever find myself in a situation where I realize that the person (or persons) that I'm conversing with are hipsters, is it taboo to point out to them that they are hipsters? Are they self aware of their hipsterism?
 
2012-11-19 07:02:07 PM

RexTalionis: For many Americans born in the 1980s and 1990s - members of Generation Y, or Millennials - particularly middle-class Caucasians, irony is the primary mode with which daily life is dealt.

White people problems.


bingo. since there is an excess of young privileged doosh white males i'm wondering if Hipsters For Archery Practice is worth encouraging. takes care of excess population, helps trim the beard herd, may lead to interest in taxidermy.
 
2012-11-19 08:01:01 PM

ProfessorOhki: This is no laughing matter. As being a hipster becomes more an more acceptable, it will begin to merge into the mainstream. If the "ironic" stance remains intentionally separation from said mainstream, one would need to become become mainstream as an form of counter-culture against the mainstream. This will give rise to a sort of quantum hipster who occupies the states of ironic and completely serious simultaneously. Eventually, this metastability will collapse... and when it does, there will be nothing left of the Pacific Northwest but a smoking crater that smells like organic coffee.


Mustaches are already mainstream again. Movember
 
2012-11-19 08:20:24 PM
I think you have to be pretty submerged in consumer culture to be a hipster or even give a shiat about hipsters.
 
2012-11-19 08:31:46 PM
That was an exercise in self-absorbed tediousity. I couldn't get past the second paragraph, skimmed, and decided I wanted those two minutes of my life back.

Send the author an onion for her belt and a lawn if she doesn't have one.

/old enough to remember this kind of silly stuff in the 1960s
 
2012-11-19 08:56:20 PM
In the space of 24 hours I've been both called a hipster by a friend, and berated by a random hipster to whom I refused a drunken high five who said "you have bad hair".

So I guess I'm good. Right down the middle, hated by everyone.
 
2012-11-19 09:18:17 PM
Is there anything real actually going on here? Who cares what people wear, or what their hobbies are? Some's assholes, and some ain't - and that's all I care about.
 
2012-11-19 09:35:56 PM

jso2897: Is there anything real actually going on here? Who cares what people wear, or what their hobbies are? Some's assholes, and some ain't - and that's all I care about.


You care inversely.
 
2012-11-19 09:57:04 PM

doyner: "The grunge movement was serious in its aesthetics and its attitude"


Most people's first exposure to "grunge" was Kurt Cobain appearing on Headbanger's Ball in 1991 dressed like this

4.bp.blogspot.com

Author is a farking idiot, and I don't mean that in an ironic sense.  I'm being completely sincere.
 
2012-11-19 10:00:45 PM
The term "hipster" has become so ubiquitous to the point that it's merely the catchall phrase to fill in for "people who like stuff I don't". I get that in theory it's supposed to represent pretension, but just using the word "hipster" is the height of pretension as it indicates that one has the hubris to deem themselves arbitrator of what's sincere and authentic.
 
2012-11-19 10:09:50 PM

KrispyKritter: RexTalionis: For many Americans born in the 1980s and 1990s - members of Generation Y, or Millennials - particularly middle-class Caucasians, irony is the primary mode with which daily life is dealt.

White people problems.

bingo. since there is an excess of young privileged doosh white males i'm wondering if Hipsters For Archery Practice is worth encouraging. takes care of excess population, helps trim the beard herd, may lead to interest in taxidermy.


www.reocities.com
 
2012-11-19 10:10:17 PM

InmanRoshi: The term "hipster" has become so ubiquitous to the point that it's merely the catchall phrase to fill in for "people who like stuff I don't". I get that in theory it's supposed to represent pretension, but just using the word "hipster" is the height of pretension as it indicates that one has the hubris to deem themselves arbitrator of what's sincere and authentic.


What kind of hipster bullshiat is this that you're typing?
 
2012-11-19 10:11:03 PM
IMO one of the best things about hipsters is that they piss of people like the author of TFA.

I hope her next article is on Bronies.

/not a hipster
 
2012-11-19 10:14:11 PM
I don't understand why the author believes hipsterism is a philosophy. Having lived through the grunge movement, you'd think she'd understand that these things don't usually spring from situations where those who adopt them write up manifestos and give themselves titles.

Generally, culture evolves just like anything else -- it starts with someone doing something different, other people thinking it's cool and building upon it, and then masses of people following their lead, but with a simplified understanding of the original purposes for it. That last stage is where hipsterism is today.

And incidentally, the author has the whole culture pegged wrong -- hipsterism is not some sort of idea that being ironic is cool. It's about embracing that which has fallen out of favor and appreciating the irony of it. It's the same phenomenon that used to be called "camp", but redefined by the internet, where anything that has ever existed can be easily experienced.
 
2012-11-19 10:24:13 PM

jaylectricity: InmanRoshi: The term "hipster" has become so ubiquitous to the point that it's merely the catchall phrase to fill in for "people who like stuff I don't". I get that in theory it's supposed to represent pretension, but just using the word "hipster" is the height of pretension as it indicates that one has the hubris to deem themselves arbitrator of what's sincere and authentic.

What kind of hipster bullshiat is this that you're typing?


Too true.
 
2012-11-19 10:26:16 PM
I imagine if you were autistic you'd have a leg up on the rest of us.
 
2012-11-19 10:28:53 PM
i296.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-19 10:35:24 PM

Dafatone: Ayup. It's a lot more interesting to talk about what hipsterdom is responding to than it is to talk about why hipsters suck. Gen X saw lots of media blaring at them every two seconds and said "meh. By saying meh, I'm taking a stand against consumerism." Then a few years later, they were the blaring media and the consumers. More or less repeat this pattern for a while.

Today, hipsters see what happened to Gen X and go "screw it. If taking a stand doesn't work, I'll just look like a clown." It's pretty much the right response.


Wife and I recently ran across her DVD of Reality Bites, and we gave it a watch and laughed at the over-wrought angst of the 90's ethos. Ethan Hawke's character as the "protagonist" is particularly laughable, because he's such an overly self absorbed, angsty, navel gazing, too-cool-for-school douche. Meanwhile Ben Stiller's character, who at the time was supposedly the square corporate sellout, is really the only likeable character in the entire movie. Somewhere in the 90's music videos basically became depressing PSAs for school shootings/eating disorders/runaway children, and then people wonder why people stopped watching them and the medium went extinct.
 
2012-11-19 10:40:06 PM

jaylectricity: InmanRoshi: The term "hipster" has become so ubiquitous to the point that it's merely the catchall phrase to fill in for "people who like stuff I don't". I get that in theory it's supposed to represent pretension, but just using the word "hipster" is the height of pretension as it indicates that one has the hubris to deem themselves arbitrator of what's sincere and authentic.

What kind of hipster bullshiat is this that you're typing?


Go away, 'baitin.
 
2012-11-19 10:41:37 PM
this thread is kind of ... cool
/i guess
 
2012-11-19 10:49:25 PM

InmanRoshi: Dafatone: Ayup. It's a lot more interesting to talk about what hipsterdom is responding to than it is to talk about why hipsters suck. Gen X saw lots of media blaring at them every two seconds and said "meh. By saying meh, I'm taking a stand against consumerism." Then a few years later, they were the blaring media and the consumers. More or less repeat this pattern for a while.

Today, hipsters see what happened to Gen X and go "screw it. If taking a stand doesn't work, I'll just look like a clown." It's pretty much the right response.

Wife and I recently ran across her DVD of Reality Bites, and we gave it a watch and laughed at the over-wrought angst of the 90's ethos. Ethan Hawke's character as the "protagonist" is particularly laughable, because he's such an overly self absorbed, angsty, navel gazing, too-cool-for-school douche. Meanwhile Ben Stiller's character, who at the time was supposedly the square corporate sellout, is really the only likeable character in the entire movie. Somewhere in the 90's music videos basically became depressing PSAs for school shootings/eating disorders/runaway children, and then people wonder why people stopped watching them and the medium went extinct.


Yeah. Turns out this article is just someone saying that her generation were better kids than today's kids. Everyone says this.

/I liked Soul Asylum...
//not that song, though.
 
2012-11-19 11:02:17 PM

Joe The Plumber: this thread is kind of ... cool
/i guess


So how's that 4-year-old business you started, making $250,000 a year going for you?
 
2012-11-19 11:14:52 PM

InmanRoshi: Wife and I recently ran across her DVD of Reality Bites, and we gave it a watch and laughed at the over-wrought angst of the 90's ethos. Ethan Hawke's character as the "protagonist" is particularly laughable, because he's such an overly self absorbed, angsty, navel gazing, too-cool-for-school douche. Meanwhile Ben Stiller's character, who at the time was supposedly the square corporate sellout, is really the only likeable character in the entire movie. Somewhere in the 90's music videos basically became depressing PSAs for school shootings/eating disorders/runaway children, and then people wonder why people stopped watching them and the medium went extinct.


The 90's just sucked. The 80's were fun and creative and vibrant and crazy, but the 90's was just a bunch of assholes whining about shiat. There are obviously some good things to come out of the decade (namely internet culture), but by and large I'm happy to see that decade gone.
 
2012-11-19 11:23:52 PM

Mentat: InmanRoshi: Wife and I recently ran across her DVD of Reality Bites, and we gave it a watch and laughed at the over-wrought angst of the 90's ethos. Ethan Hawke's character as the "protagonist" is particularly laughable, because he's such an overly self absorbed, angsty, navel gazing, too-cool-for-school douche. Meanwhile Ben Stiller's character, who at the time was supposedly the square corporate sellout, is really the only likeable character in the entire movie. Somewhere in the 90's music videos basically became depressing PSAs for school shootings/eating disorders/runaway children, and then people wonder why people stopped watching them and the medium went extinct.

The 90's just sucked. The 80's were fun and creative and vibrant and crazy, but the 90's was just a bunch of assholes whining about shiat. There are obviously some good things to come out of the decade (namely internet culture), but by and large I'm happy to see that decade gone.


Born in 81, I was a little kid in the 80s and a teenager in the 90s.

I liked the 90s just fine, but I suspect everyone looks back fondly on their teenage years.
 
2012-11-19 11:31:45 PM

InmanRoshi: Wife and I recently ran across her DVD of Reality Bites, and we gave it a watch and laughed at the over-wrought angst of the 90's ethos. Ethan Hawke's character as the "protagonist" is particularly laughable, because he's such an overly self absorbed, angsty, navel gazing, too-cool-for-school douche. Meanwhile Ben Stiller's character, who at the time was supposedly the square corporate sellout, is really the only likeable character in the entire movie


My takeaway from that movie wasn't that the 90's sucked so much as that nobody wants to see some dumb teenager's video blog.
 
2012-11-19 11:51:22 PM

Mentat: InmanRoshi: Wife and I recently ran across her DVD of Reality Bites, and we gave it a watch and laughed at the over-wrought angst of the 90's ethos. Ethan Hawke's character as the "protagonist" is particularly laughable, because he's such an overly self absorbed, angsty, navel gazing, too-cool-for-school douche. Meanwhile Ben Stiller's character, who at the time was supposedly the square corporate sellout, is really the only likeable character in the entire movie. Somewhere in the 90's music videos basically became depressing PSAs for school shootings/eating disorders/runaway children, and then people wonder why people stopped watching them and the medium went extinct.

The 90's just sucked. The 80's were fun and creative and vibrant and crazy, but the 90's was just a bunch of assholes whining about shiat. There are obviously some good things to come out of the decade (namely internet culture), but by and large I'm happy to see that decade gone.


For me, the 90's will always be the Golden Era of rap/hip hop , but as far as rock goes ... yeah, I think it will be best known for the 80's college radio heroes becoming the big bloated arena rock mega label bands they were supposedly the "alternative" to (REM, Red Hot Chilli Peppers, etc).

Just like Nazi-ism could only have taken root under the conditions of post WWI depressed Germany or Pol Pot/Khmer Rouge from bombed ravaged 1970s Cambodia, only from a decimated rock'n'roll landscape of a genre that had self asphyxiated from it's own self importance could the the Spice Girls/Britney Spears/N'Synch be born.
 
2012-11-20 12:04:15 AM

scalpod: [i296.photobucket.com image 250x250]


Win!
 
2012-11-20 12:05:32 AM

InmanRoshi: Mentat: InmanRoshi: Wife and I recently ran across her DVD of Reality Bites, and we gave it a watch and laughed at the over-wrought angst of the 90's ethos. Ethan Hawke's character as the "protagonist" is particularly laughable, because he's such an overly self absorbed, angsty, navel gazing, too-cool-for-school douche. Meanwhile Ben Stiller's character, who at the time was supposedly the square corporate sellout, is really the only likeable character in the entire movie. Somewhere in the 90's music videos basically became depressing PSAs for school shootings/eating disorders/runaway children, and then people wonder why people stopped watching them and the medium went extinct.

The 90's just sucked. The 80's were fun and creative and vibrant and crazy, but the 90's was just a bunch of assholes whining about shiat. There are obviously some good things to come out of the decade (namely internet culture), but by and large I'm happy to see that decade gone.

For me, the 90's will always be the Golden Era of rap/hip hop , but as far as rock goes ... yeah, I think it will be best known for the 80's college radio heroes becoming the big bloated arena rock mega label bands they were supposedly the "alternative" to (REM, Red Hot Chilli Peppers, etc).

Just like Nazi-ism could only have taken root under the conditions of post WWI depressed Germany or Pol Pot/Khmer Rouge from bombed ravaged 1970s Cambodia, only from a decimated rock'n'roll landscape of a genre that had self asphyxiated from it's own self importance could the the Spice Girls/Britney Spears/N'Synch be born.


whatever...
canadianonlinegamers.com

Oh and hair bands died...

/too be continued
 
2012-11-20 02:11:57 AM
Awful lot of angry old people in this thread.
 
2012-11-20 02:27:13 AM
 
2012-11-20 03:30:25 AM

Mentat: The 90's just sucked. The 80's were fun and creative and vibrant and crazy, but the 90's was just a bunch of assholes whining about shiat. There are obviously some good things to come out of the decade (namely internet culture), but by and large I'm happy to see that decade gone


Oh bullshiat. Compare 80s TV and movies to 90s TV and movies. Not even close in quality or style. Your music tastes may vary depending on your genre of choice, but the latter half of the 80s put out some of the worst "rock-n-roll" of all time. Kokomo. We Built This City. ALL OF HAIR METAL

The 90s just cleaned out most of the ick of the 80s and improved what was left.
 
2012-11-20 04:11:47 AM
Huh. There was a comment on the actual page that expressed something you all apparently missed -

Hipsters, by and large, aren't ironic any more.

I know, like, one of the most hipstery people in the world (literally.)

He's kind've a big deal in hipsterland... Has high-powered hipster friends.

And he Loves the things that he's hipster about -

namely, 50s fashion and music.

He likes Elvis a lot. He likes to dress like James Dean. There's nothing at all ironic about it. He makes a conscious decision to portray himself as cool, and to learn what is cool, and to be cool like other people have been cool...

But it's not done Ironically. At all.

Same with, say, the crunchier hipsters that like to do things like square dance, or really like craft beers, or listen to old-time music.

It's about dissatisfaction with mainstream culture - but not about liking non-mainstream culture ironically.

They're hipsters, and they really like what they like.
 
2012-11-20 04:24:37 AM

verbaltoxin: Oh boy.

Furthermore, the nostalgia cycles have become so short that we even try to inject the present moment with sentimentality, for example, by using certain digital filters to "pre-wash" photos with an aura of historicity. Nostalgia needs time. One cannot accelerate meaningful remembrance.

Paragraphs later....

Born in 1977, at the tail end of Generation X, I came of age in the 1990s, a decade that, bracketed neatly by two architectural crumblings - of the Berlin Wall in 1989 and the Twin Towers in 2001 - now seems relatively irony-free.

Oh man, remember when we were in middle school? Wasn't being 13 so much easier than being 23? Being a grown up sucks, guys.

The grunge movement was serious in its aesthetics and its attitude, with a combative stance against authority, which the punk movement had also embraced.

I too remember the deep, socially relevant messages contained within Sleep's Dopesmoker album.

In my perhaps over-nostalgic memory, feminism reached an unprecedented peak, environmentalist concerns gained widespread attention, questions of race were more openly addressed: all of these stirrings contained within them the same electricity and euphoria touching generations that witness a centennial or millennial changeover.

We had Captain Planet and a hippie chick named Kennedy on MTV. Kennedy! She only had one name, and it was a masculine-sounding last name! We were so edgy then!

FROM this vantage, the ironic clique appears simply too comfortable, too brainlessly compliant. Ironic living is a first-world problem.

Your entire article describes a first world problem.

I don't know which is worse these days, the entitled, teatard baby boomers, or their entitled, ironic hister kids and grandkids.


+1 for Sleep's "Dopesmoker".
again, that it's a First World problem, (not just white).
/any visit to any city or college town will confirm that hipsters aren't just white
//slashies....
 
2012-11-20 04:57:36 AM
So what is the drug of choice for hipsters?

Mods - Amphetamine
Rockers - Beer
Hippies - all of them all the time
Skinheads - Beer and Amphetamine
Clubbers - E
Goths - Vodak, amphetamine, tobacco

Hipsters - ?

Is there a drug ironic enough?
 
2012-11-20 06:29:26 AM

dready zim: So what is the drug of choice for hipsters?

Mods - Amphetamine
Rockers - Beer
Hippies - all of them all the time
Skinheads - Beer and Amphetamine
Clubbers - E
Goths - Vodak, amphetamine, tobacco

Hipsters - ?

Is there a drug ironic enough?


viagra
 
2012-11-20 06:45:33 AM
Sometimes, the NYT needs to remind everyone that every single one of their contributors is so ridiculously sheltered, suburban, and upper-middle-class that they have not the vaguest farking clue what life is like for 99% of the population.

An entire article devoted to a teenager fashion movement that's already 3/4 dead and only existed among the extremely well-off to begin with is one of those reminders.
 
2012-11-20 06:54:18 AM
I voted for Romney ironically this year.
 
2012-11-20 07:49:09 AM

StoPPeRmobile: Oh and hair bands died...


And replaced by "nu metal". Hardly an improvement, in any sense I'll take silly 3 minute songs from benign spandex clad goofs singing about getting drunk and farking any day over gang rapes and looting at Woodstock 99 .
 
2012-11-20 08:01:49 AM

InmanRoshi: StoPPeRmobile: Oh and hair bands died...

And replaced by "nu metal". Hardly an improvement, in any sense I'll take silly 3 minute songs from benign spandex clad goofs singing about getting drunk and farking any day over gang rapes and looting at Woodstock 99 .


Hair bands were terrible, and you should cut yourself just because you were once so stupid you enjoyed them.
 
2012-11-20 08:53:14 AM

Confabulat: InmanRoshi: StoPPeRmobile: Oh and hair bands died...

And replaced by "nu metal". Hardly an improvement, in any sense I'll take silly 3 minute songs from benign spandex clad goofs singing about getting drunk and farking any day over gang rapes and looting at Woodstock 99 .

Hair bands were terrible, and you should cut yourself just because you were once so stupid you enjoyed them.


I never enjoyed them. Just saying if we're looking at meathead musicand the worst a decade has to offer, the 90's bands were "nu metal" is way worse than hair bands. Putting aside the simple fact that musicianship was better, Hair metal bands weren't gang raping women at music festivals. The retardation of mullets can be cut off. The retardation of tribal tats stays forever.

As far as rock goes, the "best thing" about the 90's were bands from the 80's like Butthole Surfers, Ministry, Pixies, Jane's Addiction, etc. getting enough exposure to pay some bills. Of course, their work from the 80's was much, much, much, much better, but at least they were getting to put a little cash in their pocket. And at least Nine Inch Nails and Green Day blatantly ripping off cooler bands from the 80s was getting Dead Kennedys and Skinny Puppy a little notoriety as well.
 
2012-11-20 10:02:21 AM

mat catastrophe: About halfway down, tangentially related:

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/making_things


TL;DR
 
2012-11-20 10:16:15 AM

InmanRoshi: Confabulat: InmanRoshi: StoPPeRmobile: Oh and hair bands died...

And replaced by "nu metal". Hardly an improvement, in any sense I'll take silly 3 minute songs from benign spandex clad goofs singing about getting drunk and farking any day over gang rapes and looting at Woodstock 99 .

Hair bands were terrible, and you should cut yourself just because you were once so stupid you enjoyed them.

I never enjoyed them. Just saying if we're looking at meathead musicand the worst a decade has to offer, the 90's bands were "nu metal" is way worse than hair bands. Putting aside the simple fact that musicianship was better, Hair metal bands weren't gang raping women at music festivals. The retardation of mullets can be cut off. The retardation of tribal tats stays forever.

As far as rock goes, the "best thing" about the 90's were bands from the 80's like Butthole Surfers, Ministry, Pixies, Jane's Addiction, etc. getting enough exposure to pay some bills. Of course, their work from the 80's was much, much, much, much better, but at least they were getting to put a little cash in their pocket. And at least Nine Inch Nails and Green Day blatantly ripping off cooler bands from the 80s was getting Dead Kennedys and Skinny Puppy a little notoriety as well.


I guess if you're comparing worst to worst, the decades are pretty close in my opinion.

As far as like... average to average goes? I'll take not-terribly-exciting poppy 90s alternative (think less Pearl Jam who were good but kinda hinted at nu-metal a little, more Hootie and the Blowfish or something) over Van Halen.

I understand that not everyone will agree. But go away, Van Halen.

/the person above who says that hipsters actually like what they claim to like is right.
//only a select few morons actually SAY "I'm wearing this fedora ironically."
 
2012-11-20 10:34:58 AM

meat0918: In my experience, these hipsters like what they are doing, despite all claims to the contrary.


Then why drop it the moment it "sells out" (i.e. when non-hipsters start to notice that it's good)? That's not something you do with things you like, yet hipsters are notorious for it. I'll buy that most of them believe they like the things they claim to like, but their behavior indicates that even in those instances where this is true, they have other priorities.
 
2012-11-20 11:17:16 AM

Dafatone: InmanRoshi: Confabulat: InmanRoshi: StoPPeRmobile: Oh and hair bands died...

And replaced by "nu metal". Hardly an improvement, in any sense I'll take silly 3 minute songs from benign spandex clad goofs singing about getting drunk and farking any day over gang rapes and looting at Woodstock 99 .

Hair bands were terrible, and you should cut yourself just because you were once so stupid you enjoyed them.

I never enjoyed them. Just saying if we're looking at meathead musicand the worst a decade has to offer, the 90's bands were "nu metal" is way worse than hair bands. Putting aside the simple fact that musicianship was better, Hair metal bands weren't gang raping women at music festivals. The retardation of mullets can be cut off. The retardation of tribal tats stays forever.

As far as rock goes, the "best thing" about the 90's were bands from the 80's like Butthole Surfers, Ministry, Pixies, Jane's Addiction, etc. getting enough exposure to pay some bills. Of course, their work from the 80's was much, much, much, much better, but at least they were getting to put a little cash in their pocket. And at least Nine Inch Nails and Green Day blatantly ripping off cooler bands from the 80s was getting Dead Kennedys and Skinny Puppy a little notoriety as well.

I guess if you're comparing worst to worst, the decades are pretty close in my opinion.

As far as like... average to average goes? I'll take not-terribly-exciting poppy 90s alternative (think less Pearl Jam who were good but kinda hinted at nu-metal a little, more Hootie and the Blowfish or something) over Van Halen.

I understand that not everyone will agree. But go away, Van Halen.

/the person above who says that hipsters actually like what they claim to like is right.
//only a select few morons actually SAY "I'm wearing this fedora ironically."


Never was a huge Van Halen fan either, but I think in general Hair Metal gets over represented in what what constituted mainstream chart toppers of the 80s. No doubt there was that 3 year era from about 87-89 where it was ubiquitous and inescapable, but Blondie, Michael Jackson, The Police, Pretenders, Ah-ha, Dire Straits, Simple Minds, Tears for Fears, Prince, Springsteen, The Cars, The Go-Gos, Peter Gabriel, etc. all had monster mainstream hit songs/albums/runs in the rest of the decade, and upon re-listen all are vastly more interesting and dynamic and diverse to me today than what topped the charts in the 90s, particular the Eddie Vedder knockoffs mumbling over the fuzzy guitar that's become the "signature" sound .... which in my mind, has not aged well at all.
 
2012-11-20 01:13:56 PM

Confabulat: InmanRoshi: StoPPeRmobile: Oh and hair bands died...

And replaced by "nu metal". Hardly an improvement, in any sense I'll take silly 3 minute songs from benign spandex clad goofs singing about getting drunk and farking any day over gang rapes and looting at Woodstock 99 .

Hair bands were terrible, and you should cut yourself just because you were once so stupid you enjoyed them.


If it makes you feel better, I have him farkled as "music snob with average taste in music". I think it came from one of those "why those damn kids today don't listen to my precious farking Beetles" threads.

/ it makes me laugh, anyway
 
2012-11-20 02:49:29 PM

gunther_bumpass: Confabulat: InmanRoshi: StoPPeRmobile: Oh and hair bands died...

And replaced by "nu metal". Hardly an improvement, in any sense I'll take silly 3 minute songs from benign spandex clad goofs singing about getting drunk and farking any day over gang rapes and looting at Woodstock 99 .

Hair bands were terrible, and you should cut yourself just because you were once so stupid you enjoyed them.

If it makes you feel better, I have him farkled as "music snob with average taste in music". I think it came from one of those "why those damn kids today don't listen to my precious farking Beetles" threads.

/ it makes me laugh, anyway


Eh, I just like being inspired by music. Sorry I didn't find much inspiring if your heyday of meatheads gang raping women to Kid Korn Rock Puddle of Bitzkit, or Nine Inch Nails/Green Day doing poor watered down imitations of much better bands on the "Levi Jeans and Pepsi Cola Presents the 'Stickin It To Da Man' Alternative Music Tour". You'll get over it. Just tune me out by moving the radio dial over to the classic rock stations and listen to your favorite music now in heavy rotation with the bloated arena rock of the 70s, where it rightfully belongs.
 
2012-11-20 04:58:18 PM

RatOmeter: mat catastrophe: About halfway down, tangentially related:

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/making_things

TL;DR


THAT'S WHY I GAVE YOU DIRECTIONS ON ROUGHLY HOW MUCH YOU COULD SKIP, DILLWEED
 
2012-11-20 06:21:44 PM

mat catastrophe: RatOmeter: mat catastrophe: About halfway down, tangentially related:

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/making_things

TL;DR

THAT'S WHY I GAVE YOU DIRECTIONS ON ROUGHLY HOW MUCH YOU COULD SKIP, DILLWEED


Mmmmm, I like dillweed. It's even better than Dilbert.

/read the whole thing.
//enjoyed it too
 
2012-11-20 06:53:21 PM

RatOmeter: mat catastrophe: RatOmeter: mat catastrophe: About halfway down, tangentially related:

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/making_things

TL;DR

THAT'S WHY I GAVE YOU DIRECTIONS ON ROUGHLY HOW MUCH YOU COULD SKIP, DILLWEED

Mmmmm, I like dillweed. It's even better than Dilbert.

/read the whole thing.
//enjoyed it too


Yea, it is a good read. I got a little perspective on my life when I got to the part about hipsters and it made stop and reflect on myself as a 37-year old man, worrying about what 20-year old kids are wearing and doing.....

And then I remembered this guy writes cartoons on the internet, and I went back to hatin'.
 
2012-11-20 07:01:08 PM

InmanRoshi: Never was a huge Van Halen fan either, but I think in general Hair Metal gets over represented in what what constituted mainstream chart toppers of the 80s. No doubt there was that 3 year era from about 87-89 where it was ubiquitous and inescapable, but Blondie, Michael Jackson, The Police, Pretenders, Ah-ha, Dire Straits, Simple Minds, Tears for Fears, Prince, Springsteen, The Cars, The Go-Gos, Peter Gabriel, etc. all had monster mainstream hit songs/albums/runs in the rest of the decade, and upon re-listen all are vastly more interesting and dynamic and diverse to me today than what topped the charts in the 90s, particular the Eddie Vedder knockoffs mumbling over the fuzzy guitar that's become the "signature" sound .... which in my mind, has not aged well at all.


InmanRoshi: Eh, I just like being inspired by music. Sorry I didn't find much inspiring if your heyday of meatheads gang raping women to Kid Korn Rock Puddle of Bitzkit, or Nine Inch Nails/Green Day doing poor watered down imitations of much better bands on the "Levi Jeans and Pepsi Cola Presents the 'Stickin It To Da Man' Alternative Music Tour". You'll get over it. Just tune me out by moving the radio dial over to the classic rock stations and listen to your favorite music now in heavy rotation with the bloated arena rock of the 70s, where it rightfully belongs.


Good points. It bothers me that "90s" is defined by late 90s. 1994-1995 had an entirely different corporate-pushed sound to it that's been largely forgotten. Again, I cite Hootie and the Blowfish as a good example of music that wasn't particularly good, but was at least not nu-metal-angst.
 
2012-11-22 03:47:21 PM
Today I learned old and physically disabled people can't be ironic.
 
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