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(The New York Times)   How to live without irony   (opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com) divider line 140
    More: Ironic, how to live  
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7000 clicks; posted to Geek » on 19 Nov 2012 at 11:55 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-19 08:36:56 AM  
That sounds wonderful.
 
2012-11-19 08:42:14 AM  
Yet another hipster bashing article.

1.bp.blogspot.com

Yeah, we covet hipster boys for making fun but the girls are just awesome.
 
2012-11-19 08:43:50 AM  
Blah, blah, blah.
 
2012-11-19 09:06:30 AM  
*fart noise*
 
2012-11-19 09:25:00 AM  
dead tree media falling in the forest.
 
2012-11-19 09:32:46 AM  
I've found the easiest way to avoid irony is to hang out in Fark threads with the Irony tag.

Which is ironic.
 
2012-11-19 09:51:35 AM  
For many Americans born in the 1980s and 1990s - members of Generation Y, or Millennials - particularly middle-class Caucasians, irony is the primary mode with which daily life is dealt.

White people problems.
 
2012-11-19 09:55:14 AM  
24.media.tumblr.com
25.media.tumblr.com
I'm not a hipster... I'm an Accidental Chinese Hipster.
 
2012-11-19 10:01:02 AM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Yet another hipster bashing article.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 800x1363]

Yeah, we covet hipster boys for making fun but the girls are just awesome.


The girls would have been awesome dressed in anything. Those clothes don't make her look any better.
 
2012-11-19 10:40:31 AM  

jaylectricity:
The girls would have been awesome dressed in anything. Those clothes don't make her look any better.


They make her look easy to older punk rockers like myself.

(I was into that before you were -is a great pickup line)
 
2012-11-19 11:22:33 AM  
The author was 18 when Alanis Moriset released "Jagged Little" pill and is going to offer a critique on hipsters that includes this gem:

"The grunge movement was serious in its aesthetics and its attitude"

And isn't it moronic...don't ya think?
 
2012-11-19 11:23:14 AM  
Yes, but isn't blood kind of dependent on it?
 
2012-11-19 11:26:07 AM  
Oh, this is a gem. FTFA: Nonironic models include very young children, elderly people, deeply religious people, people with severe mental or physical disabilities

Isn't that ironic? Doncha think?
 
2012-11-19 12:01:06 PM  
How to live without irony

Just take your clothes to the dry cleaners.

/No Tickey, no shirty
 
2012-11-19 12:07:32 PM  

RexTalionis: For many Americans born in the 1980s and 1990s - members of Generation Y, or Millennials - particularly middle-class Caucasians, irony is the primary mode with which daily life is dealt.

White people problems.


I think it's more that Millennials are to farking lazy and stupid to come up with anything new on their own.
 
2012-11-19 12:12:54 PM  

abhorrent1: RexTalionis: For many Americans born in the 1980s and 1990s - members of Generation Y, or Millennials - particularly middle-class Caucasians, irony is the primary mode with which daily life is dealt.

White people problems.

I think it's more that Millennials are to farking lazy and stupid to come up with anything new on their own.


You know, I was with the author right up until the point that she implied that Gen X apathy and slackertude was better than Gen Y irony.
 
2012-11-19 12:14:08 PM  
Farkitall, you're missing the main point: That professor is a very attractive woman, and she can sing.
 
2012-11-19 12:16:35 PM  

Doc Daneeka: abhorrent1: RexTalionis: For many Americans born in the 1980s and 1990s - members of Generation Y, or Millennials - particularly middle-class Caucasians, irony is the primary mode with which daily life is dealt.

White people problems.

I think it's more that Millennials are to farking lazy and stupid to come up with anything new on their own.

You know, I was with the author right up until the point that she implied that Gen X apathy and slackertude was better than Gen Y irony.


As a Gen X'er I will say that my apathy is totally better than
 
2012-11-19 12:17:36 PM  
I dress like a hipster but only to be ironic because I am not a hipster.

/head asplode.
 
2012-11-19 12:19:39 PM  
Oh boy.

Furthermore, the nostalgia cycles have become so short that we even try to inject the present moment with sentimentality, for example, by using certain digital filters to "pre-wash" photos with an aura of historicity. Nostalgia needs time. One cannot accelerate meaningful remembrance.

Paragraphs later....

Born in 1977, at the tail end of Generation X, I came of age in the 1990s, a decade that, bracketed neatly by two architectural crumblings - of the Berlin Wall in 1989 and the Twin Towers in 2001 - now seems relatively irony-free.

Oh man, remember when we were in middle school? Wasn't being 13 so much easier than being 23? Being a grown up sucks, guys.

The grunge movement was serious in its aesthetics and its attitude, with a combative stance against authority, which the punk movement had also embraced.

I too remember the deep, socially relevant messages contained within Sleep's Dopesmoker album.

In my perhaps over-nostalgic memory, feminism reached an unprecedented peak, environmentalist concerns gained widespread attention, questions of race were more openly addressed: all of these stirrings contained within them the same electricity and euphoria touching generations that witness a centennial or millennial changeover.

We had Captain Planet and a hippie chick named Kennedy on MTV. Kennedy! She only had one name, and it was a masculine-sounding last name! We were so edgy then!

FROM this vantage, the ironic clique appears simply too comfortable, too brainlessly compliant. Ironic living is a first-world problem.

Your entire article describes a first world problem.

I don't know which is worse these days, the entitled, teatard baby boomers, or their entitled, ironic hister kids and grandkids.
 
2012-11-19 12:20:27 PM  
Christy Wampole is an assistant professor of French at Princeton University. Her research focuses primarily on 20th- and 21st-century French and Italian literature and thought.

A professor of literature and thought decrying those who devote too much of their attention to commenting on what's gone before?

Delicious.
 
2012-11-19 12:22:55 PM  
blogs.ajc.com
I don't want to!
 
2012-11-19 12:27:20 PM  
that was a refreshing read. all this time i thought my disgust and hatred of hipsters stemmed from their fetishising of nostalgia and annoying lack of authenticity in their style and interests, which tend to overlap with things that i actually care about.

now it feels closer to hating the symptoms of a grandiose and widespread mental illness overtaking our youth.
 
2012-11-19 12:34:11 PM  
This man needs to move out of the city.
 
2012-11-19 12:37:02 PM  

jso2897: This man needs to move out of the city.


What?
 
2012-11-19 12:42:01 PM  
Hipsters already live "without irony"... they dress and act EXACTLY like we expect them to...which is the opposite of what the word "irony" actually means.
 
2012-11-19 12:42:23 PM  
Can one be a hipster without doing things ironically?

I've been called a hipster, but I don't do things with intent to cause irony.
 
2012-11-19 12:50:20 PM  

jso2897: This man needs to move out of the city.


The author is a lady, but yes. Moving out of a locus of "style fixation" would quickly amend what's wrong with these people.
 
2012-11-19 12:54:40 PM  
Born in 1977, at the tail end of Generation X, I came of age in the 1990s, a decade that, bracketed neatly by two architectural crumblings - of the Berlin Wall in 1989 and the Twin Towers in 2001 - now seems relatively irony-free. The grunge movement was serious in its aesthetics and its attitude, with a combative stance against authority, which the punk movement had also embraced...
...
...FROM this vantage, the ironic clique appears simply too comfortable, too brainlessly compliant. Ironic living is a first-world problem. For the relatively well educated and financially secure, irony functions as a kind of credit card you never have to pay back. In other words, the hipster can frivolously invest in sham social capital without ever paying back one sincere dime. He doesn't own anything he possesses.


SO MUCH THIS. Very well put...I don't think I've ever seen the irritation Gen-Xers feel toward hipster millennials explained so clearly. Hipsters are, in a way, the embodiment of everything we hated.
 
2012-11-19 12:57:34 PM  
New York Times? That means quality journalism...
 
2012-11-19 12:58:25 PM  
The author sounds like an aging hipster :)

The caricature presented is easily hated. Takes only a passing interest in things, tries to be a trend setter when they are oblivious to the fact they are following a trend. Oh, how I have heard that before.

It's just more of the "my generation was the best generation, this new generation sucks" (with the possible addition of "all the world's problems are the previous generations fault") that we've heard for generation after generation after generation.

And this new generation of hipsters will be lamenting their kids and grandkids culture and identity, interspersed with exclamations of "Get off my lawn".
 
2012-11-19 12:59:21 PM  
It's really simple.

If you like something, OWN THE FACT THAT YOU LIKE IT.

If you don't like something, OWN THE FACT THAT YOU DON'T LIKE IT.

"Ironically" liking something you hate is a waste of energy at best, and gutless at worst (in the event that you truly do like it but don't want to appear sincere).
 
2012-11-19 01:05:03 PM  
I'm sorry, but no hobby can be ironic. Idiosyncratic maybe, but unless you're making shirts with pro-vegan messages out of ground kittens it's not an ironic habit.
 
2012-11-19 01:05:42 PM  

doyner: The author was 18 when Alanis Moriset released "Jagged Little" pill and is going to offer a critique on hipsters that includes this gem:

"The grunge movement was serious in its aesthetics and its attitude"

And isn't it moronic...don't ya think?


Allanis Morissette wasn't grunge. Ssssooo...

/would be like judging millenials based on Carly Rae Jepsen
 
2012-11-19 01:10:00 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: It's really simple.

If you like something, OWN THE FACT THAT YOU LIKE IT.

If you don't like something, OWN THE FACT THAT YOU DON'T LIKE IT.

"Ironically" liking something you hate is a waste of energy at best, and gutless at worst (in the event that you truly do like it but don't want to appear sincere).


Have you met this person you dislike in real life, or only the online stereotype?

I live in a virtual mecca of hipsterdom (Eugene, OR), and I have yet to meet this person that does something they hate just to appear ironic. They own the things they like, and get rather defensive about it too.

Maybe it's the clothes? Are we pissed that young kids are wearing Pink Floyd concert tees while never having attended one of their concerts and maybe not liking "The Wall" while prancing about in skinny jeans, flip flops, and a fedora?
 
2012-11-19 01:12:30 PM  

meat0918: The author sounds like an aging hipster :)

The caricature presented is easily hated. Takes only a passing interest in things, tries to be a trend setter when they are oblivious to the fact they are following a trend. Oh, how I have heard that before.


Except that's not at all what she's complaining about. She is complaining about those who refuse to define where they stand or what they like, because they hide it all behind irony. It's not disliking them for a trend, or "trying too hard to be different"...it's disliking them for intellectual and social bullsh*tting as a childish means of avoiding any sort of derision.

I think it's a symptom of a lot of these kids being raised to all think they're special...not "special" in the way that everyone is "special", but special as in better than everybody else. They grow up soft, hit the real world, and cannot take criticism. So they hide behind irony, or whatever you want to call the phenomenon to which the term has been somewhat mis-applied.
 
2012-11-19 01:13:09 PM  
unrealitymag.com

I like hipsterism. It means I can go out in public dressed in my Star Trek dress uniform and if anyone asks, it's totally ironic.

Incidentally:
25.media.tumblr.com
4.bp.blogspot.com
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-11-19 01:18:04 PM  
Author sounds like Fat Apollo.

i.imgur.com
 
2012-11-19 01:18:29 PM  

abhorrent1: RexTalionis: For many Americans born in the 1980s and 1990s - members of Generation Y, or Millennials - particularly middle-class Caucasians, irony is the primary mode with which daily life is dealt.

White people problems.

I think it's more that Millennials are to farking lazy and stupid to come up with anything new on their own.


And they should get off your lawn!

Same shiat, different generation. When are we going to learn that similar things were said about the Silent, the Greatest, the Boomers, the Xers, and now the Mellinals. You know what I took out of that article blah, blah, blah, I don't understand young people because I'm old.
 
2012-11-19 01:18:40 PM  

meat0918: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: It's really simple.

If you like something, OWN THE FACT THAT YOU LIKE IT.

If you don't like something, OWN THE FACT THAT YOU DON'T LIKE IT.

"Ironically" liking something you hate is a waste of energy at best, and gutless at worst (in the event that you truly do like it but don't want to appear sincere).

Have you met this person you dislike in real life, or only the online stereotype?

I live in a virtual mecca of hipsterdom (Eugene, OR), and I have yet to meet this person that does something they hate just to appear ironic. They own the things they like, and get rather defensive about it too.

Maybe it's the clothes? Are we pissed that young kids are wearing Pink Floyd concert tees while never having attended one of their concerts and maybe not liking "The Wall" while prancing about in skinny jeans, flip flops, and a fedora?


I have met many such people. And it's not Pink Floyd shirts, but if I see a guy wearing, say, a "Hootie and the Blowfish" shirt (real recent example), that's the cowardice. "Hi, look at me, I hate the same thing as everyone, aren't I ridiculous! Har har." Again, it's a shield against criticism. It's an irritating psychological weakness, not a fashion judgement.
 
2012-11-19 01:18:53 PM  

Stratohead: Hipsters already live "without irony"... they dress and act EXACTLY like we expect them to...which is the opposite of what the word "irony" actually means.


wildcardjack: I'm sorry, but no hobby can be ironic. Idiosyncratic maybe, but unless you're making shirts with pro-vegan messages out of ground kittens it's not an ironic habit.


I think you folks are confusing dramatic or situational irony with verbal irony.

When people say that hipsters are being ironic, they mean the latter. The opposite of verbal irony is authenticity or sincerity. The way hipsters express themselves is ironic. The clothes they wear, the beer they drink, the activities they partake, are all intended as means of self-expression, only these expressions are not meant authentically. Hipsters don't actually like the things they like. That's why it's ironic.
 
2012-11-19 01:20:17 PM  

RexTalionis: [unrealitymag.com image 600x400]

I like hipsterism. It means I can go out in public dressed in my Star Trek dress uniform and if anyone asks, it's totally ironic.

Incidentally:
[25.media.tumblr.com image 467x700]
[4.bp.blogspot.com image 500x375]
[24.media.tumblr.com image 393x600]


The f*ck is going on with Lt. Commander Michael Myers there? God that's a creepy mask.
 
2012-11-19 01:22:10 PM  
When I look at a hipster, I wonder if she/he knows that she/he is a hipster.
 
2012-11-19 01:22:20 PM  

Doc Daneeka: Stratohead: Hipsters already live "without irony"... they dress and act EXACTLY like we expect them to...which is the opposite of what the word "irony" actually means.

wildcardjack: I'm sorry, but no hobby can be ironic. Idiosyncratic maybe, but unless you're making shirts with pro-vegan messages out of ground kittens it's not an ironic habit.

I think you folks are confusing dramatic or situational irony with verbal irony.

When people say that hipsters are being ironic, they mean the latter. The opposite of verbal irony is authenticity or sincerity. The way hipsters express themselves is ironic. The clothes they wear, the beer they drink, the activities they partake, are all intended as means of self-expression, only these expressions are not meant authentically. Hipsters don't actually like the things they like. That's why it's ironic.


And irritating. You forgot irritating.

It's stunning that it's been going on so long now that some people apparently don't even know how to spot it.
 
2012-11-19 01:23:29 PM  

RexTalionis: [unrealitymag.com image 600x400]

I like hipsterism. It means I can go out in public dressed in my Star Trek dress uniform and if anyone asks, it's totally ironic.

Incidentally:
[25.media.tumblr.com image 467x700]
[4.bp.blogspot.com image 500x375]
[24.media.tumblr.com image 393x600]


anomalycentral.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-11-19 01:24:00 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: meat0918: The author sounds like an aging hipster :)

The caricature presented is easily hated. Takes only a passing interest in things, tries to be a trend setter when they are oblivious to the fact they are following a trend. Oh, how I have heard that before.

Except that's not at all what she's complaining about. She is complaining about those who refuse to define where they stand or what they like, because they hide it all behind irony. It's not disliking them for a trend, or "trying too hard to be different"...it's disliking them for intellectual and social bullsh*tting as a childish means of avoiding any sort of derision.

I think it's a symptom of a lot of these kids being raised to all think they're special...not "special" in the way that everyone is "special", but special as in better than everybody else. They grow up soft, hit the real world, and cannot take criticism. So they hide behind irony, or whatever you want to call the phenomenon to which the term has been somewhat mis-applied.


See, I still haven't met these kids. The ones that dress like the stereotypical hipster define very clearly where they stand. There might be some youthful exuberance and the idea that they might be the first to come up with something. Maybe I'm just to far removed from things anymore. But hell, I'm only 32. Maybe instead I'm too close to the dividing line between generations to see such a distinction.

I have met a few of the younger ones that can't take criticism, but I would hardly call them hipsters, and it's sad to watch them deflate a bit. But I've met many people of all ages that can't take criticism and hide behind whatever excuse they can come up with.

I'll take deflation over yelling and cursing and threats of physical violence(another story altogether) any day of the week though.
 
2012-11-19 01:24:55 PM  

cgraves67: jso2897: This man needs to move out of the city.
The author is a lady, but yes. Moving out of a locus of "style fixation" would quickly amend what's wrong with these people.


And get off the internet. I think there's millions of people out there desperately searching the internet to find what's "in" so they can be over it before anyone else can.

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Except that's not at all what she's complaining about. She is complaining about those who refuse to define where they stand or what they like, because they hide it all behind irony. It's not disliking them for a trend, or "trying too hard to be different"...it's disliking them for intellectual and social bullsh*tting as a childish means of avoiding any sort of derision.
I think it's a symptom of a lot of these kids being raised to all think they're special...not "special" in the way that everyone is "special", but special as in better than everybody else. They grow up soft, hit the real world, and cannot take criticism. So they hide behind irony, or whatever you want to call the phenomenon to which the term has been somewhat mis-applied.


Hmmm. OK. Thank god I don't have any idea what this shiat is all about. And I'm too old to care.
One of the advantages of getting older--you don't give a fark how you appear to everyone else. I have real problems.
 
2012-11-19 01:27:45 PM  
About halfway down, tangentially related:

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/making_things
 
2012-11-19 01:28:15 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: meat0918: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: It's really simple.

If you like something, OWN THE FACT THAT YOU LIKE IT.

If you don't like something, OWN THE FACT THAT YOU DON'T LIKE IT.

"Ironically" liking something you hate is a waste of energy at best, and gutless at worst (in the event that you truly do like it but don't want to appear sincere).

Have you met this person you dislike in real life, or only the online stereotype?

I live in a virtual mecca of hipsterdom (Eugene, OR), and I have yet to meet this person that does something they hate just to appear ironic. They own the things they like, and get rather defensive about it too.

Maybe it's the clothes? Are we pissed that young kids are wearing Pink Floyd concert tees while never having attended one of their concerts and maybe not liking "The Wall" while prancing about in skinny jeans, flip flops, and a fedora?

I have met many such people. And it's not Pink Floyd shirts, but if I see a guy wearing, say, a "Hootie and the Blowfish" shirt (real recent example), that's the cowardice. "Hi, look at me, I hate the same thing as everyone, aren't I ridiculous! Har har." Again, it's a shield against criticism. It's an irritating psychological weakness, not a fashion judgement.


Just wearing the shirt makes you judge that much about them? Or is there more to the story you didn't post?

They could actually like Hootie, and geeked out and got excited when the found the T-Shirt at the store.
 
2012-11-19 01:32:24 PM  

meat0918: Can one be a hipster without doing things ironically?

I've been called a hipster, but I don't do things with intent to cause irony.


So you're just a poser then?
 
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