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(Kansas.com)   "It's a sad, sad commentary on the attitudes of the day that a nearly 60-year-old Christmas tradition is now having to hunt for a home, something like our savior had to hunt for a place to be born because the world was not interested"   (kansas.com) divider line 449
    More: Sad, christmas, god, Los Angeles, Flying Spaghetti Monster, nativity, images of Jesus, christmas tradition, Freedom From Religion Foundation  
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12880 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Nov 2012 at 7:59 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-19 10:58:16 AM
I am waiting for the image of Christ to appear in Twinkie filling. That will save Hostess.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2012-11-19 10:59:10 AM

Uncle Tractor: And that, plus the star at the top of the tree, is just about the only christian thing about it. The reason for the season, aka axial tilt:


I will give agree it has gone so very far afield from what it SHOULD be, but still......no reason for the hatin' season.
People can remain the BEST christian part of Christmas, it just takes us to remember to be decent humans to each other.

/axial tilt, solstice, geo year...I am an engineer so physics and astrology is spoken here but thanks for the reminder for those not "in the know"
 
2012-11-19 10:59:55 AM

FriarReb98: I understand how someone can not believe and all, but when Christians get one month out of the twelve of the year to be proud of their religion, it just seems petty to be sitting there and antagonizing them for it.


Why do we have to spend the last two months of every goddamned year treating each other like pricks because of what we believe?.




So, is it one month or two?

Actually, it's much, much longer than that.

Many stores began setting up their Christmas displays and selling trees back in September. 'Santa's Workshop' had arrived in the local mall before Halloween and will last until mid-January... at which point it will be taken down and replaced with the Easter Bunny who will then last until mid-April.

Only one month to be proud of their religion? I wish. It's currently just over 6 months and slowly continues to grow.
 
2012-11-19 11:02:51 AM

Z-clipped: Happy Hours: They believe they are. You can call it what you want, but it's not trolling.

OK. I call it "offensively arrogant, presumptuous and self-involved".


Fair enough - you're entitled to call it that.

Which coincidentally, is also the phrase I ascribe to your idea that "pissing off christians" is the only reason that atheists exercise their rights to equal time in situations like these.

That's my opinion of course, but yeah - I think the whole point of creating displays in praise of Poseidon and Flying Spaghetti Monster was to piss off Christians.

Get over yourself. You're not the center of the universe, no matter what your holy book might tell you.

I'm not? Wait, I have a "holy book"? What is it? Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas? The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam? The Holy Bible? Bonfire of the Vanities? I own all 4 of those books. I'm not sure which one is the holiest. 

Silly me - everyone knows the Curse of Lono is the holiest of books.
 
2012-11-19 11:03:16 AM

StrangeQ: ... Who's blaming what now? Are you saying the atheists vandalized their own signs to get the city to cancel the whole thing?


Were those committing the vandalism busted in the act?

If no one knows 'who' vandalized the displays - then it could have been anyone.

Might not have been either Christians or atheists.

Could have been one person who simply gets off on stirring up trouble.

Someone who finds stirring up trouble 'amusing'.
 
2012-11-19 11:05:45 AM
Happy Hours
There is no freedom from religion just as there is no freedom from any other form of speech with which you might disagree.

So, I can do banking on 12/25 every year, and not worry about some federaly recognized Holy-Day?


How about when we shut down the government for Muohoummood's birthday?
Will we be free then?
 
2012-11-19 11:06:00 AM

StrangeQ: jso2897: However one feels about religion, it is foolish to pretend that it is not deeply entertwined in human culture. At some point in the future, it may not be - but we don't live in the future. And in a inter-human dealings, mutual respect is usually the way to go. Of course, people of faith could also use to improve their track record in that regard. Everybody could.

Spirituality is entwined, yes, but that by no means makes it indispensable. We are an inquisitive species; that may be due to a cause or an effect of our evolution, but regardless, it drives us to wonder about the world and the universe and what makes it tick. For thousands of years we had no better than our own two eyes to see, our ears to hear and our hands to touch the world, and so much of its true nature remained hidden, obscured or incomprehensible. So we made up stories. There was no malicious intent, no desire to deceive. We were simply trying to make sense of the world. Now, some were inspired by this to create great works of art, yes, but that does not make up for the damage done by those whose desire to repress the advance of knowledge in order to preserve their status quo caused forever lost ages of intellectual development. There is no getting the time of the dark ages back, it is gone and we must move on and hopefully learn from it what we can. That lesson, I believe, is that superstitious belief is to be relegated to the same status as children's fairy tales. It is sometimes amusing and often carries some moral lesson, but when it comes to matters of public policy, it carries as much weight as a reading of Snow White would in a court case deciding the fate of genetically modified fruit.


Yes. So next time someone brings up any kind of gut feeling about naturalism, or nature, or pretty much any moral arguments about GMs, tell them to shut the fark up.
 
2012-11-19 11:10:33 AM
i141.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-19 11:10:36 AM

santadog: Sort of off topic, maybe? I'm a photographer, and I find images all over the place. I shot this one in Austin, Texas in someone's yard. Now, I also sell my images. Just ended my first shows ever in Colorado. I've sold this image all over Texas, Ohio, and online without issue. My Sock Monkey Nativity Scene is usually a best seller, but offended at least 8 people at the Colorado shows. How do I know? Because they were very vocal about it.

One of the problems with Christians is they lost their sense of humor centuries ago.

CSS
[imageshack.us image 640x427]


Not all of us have. I think that sock monkey nativity is hilarious!
 
gja [TotalFark]
2012-11-19 11:11:33 AM

StrangeQ: Now, maybe. Before the Christians appropriation it was called Yule or Yuletide or simply a celebration of the solstice. The absolute most infuriating thing about this and the reason why I have no sympathy for Christian groups in this situation is that despite the season's historical background, they insist on claiming it as a purely Christian holiday with purely Christian roots when such a claim is utterly false. I will not now or ever support a group who runs on a platform of outright falsehoods.


I am quite aware of Yuletide, yule logs burning taking approx 2 days and such. Most christians realize we didn't beat everyone else to the punch in inventing holidays, let alone one that predates their inception some hundreds or possibly thousands of years.

I don't think ANY reasonable christian would claim:
1. The entire season is all ours
2. Our God is the only legitimate one you heathen
3. We invented the entire concept of the season, blah blah yakkity-smakkity......ad nauseum

People like that have only 1 good use, being launched into space to observe the effect of rapid hypoxia and vacuum environments on the human form.
Or target practice for virii.

Then there are literally SCADS of folks like me. Who just ask you not brow-beat the holy hell out of us for slipping up and saying "Merry Christmas" in passing. I mean FFS, REALLY. Hypersensitive much?

And please stop 'pitchin a biatch' when we have the audacity to put a little manger scene out because, you know, that's imposing on your beliefs as you drive by. SHEESH.

/tolerance is acceptable, respect would be better, actually learning to love your fellow man would be a really nice target to shoot for
 
2012-11-19 11:12:09 AM
From the other thread:

Cliff's Notes version for everyone:

1953 - First Nativity scenes held in public parks
Up until 1978, Santa Monica had subsidized the scenes by paying for electricity, underwriting revenue lost by bagging the parking meters in front of the scenes & assistance in erecting the booths (this was merely a financial decision as Proposition 13 was curtailing funds)
1979 - All direct city support was withdrawn after ACLU/Madelyn Murray O'Hair threatened suit
1980 - 1982 displays were underfunded crappola
1984 - Emboldened by Lynch v. Donnelly, a resurgence in private funding & participation
2001 - 2003 City of Santa Monica & nativity supporters clashed over ordinances regarding displays in city parks
2009, 2010 - Atheist Damon Vix petitions city & is granted a single display
2011 - Dix and a large number of fellow atheist activists (mostly from outside of the city) inundate the city with applications. Under city rules, any group was allowed to apply up to 14 spaces; the number of applications necessitated a lottery that resulted in 18/21 spaces going to the atheist activists, 2/21 to Nativity scenes & 1 to a Jewish display. Atheist displays are mostly vandalized.
2012 - Santa Monica cuts off everyone to avoid the issue getting worse

Sources:
TFA
Santa Monica Nativity History
Where Crèches Once Stood, Atheists Now Hold Forth, NYTimes, December 21, 2011

My personal opinion: Once the city stopped supporting/underwriting the scenes, their lottery system was an inherently fair way to treat public religious displays. The atheists gamed the system, and were pretty much jerks about it, but no Christian rights were infringed, the lawsuit is bunk. This is a shallow win for the atheists, who come off looking like smug assholes; they'd have been better served in the long game by increasing their presence gradually over the next few years.
 
2012-11-19 11:12:54 AM

gja: 2. Our God is the only legitimate one you heathen


No christian would claim that? Isn't that the first farkin' commandment? Who's lying, you or your god?
 
2012-11-19 11:13:25 AM

untaken_name: The only people more annoying than religious people are aggressively irreligious people.


Life imitates XKCD.

Happy Hours: I think the whole point of creating displays in praise of Poseidon and Flying Spaghetti Monster was to piss off Christians.


Then you're just as irrational and shortsighted as the religious dickheads that you're pretending not to be one of.
 
2012-11-19 11:15:28 AM

Z-clipped: untaken_name: The only people more annoying than religious people are aggressively irreligious people.

Life imitates XKCD.



Oh, no, I discovered a new contender for the throne - people who quote XKCD. I don't believe in YOUR god, either.
 
2012-11-19 11:18:06 AM

gja: 2. Our God is the only legitimate one you heathen


Really? Because that's literally a central tenet of christianity. It's like, a commandment and everything.

gja: eople like that have only 1 good use, being launched into space to observe the effect of rapid hypoxia and vacuum environments on the human form.


www.mibba.com

"You're gonna need a bigger rocket."
 
2012-11-19 11:18:57 AM

untaken_name: people who quote XKCD


That would be YOU, in this case. Thanks for playing.
 
2012-11-19 11:19:07 AM

gja: Uncle Tractor: And that, plus the star at the top of the tree, is just about the only christian thing about it. The reason for the season, aka axial tilt:

I will give agree it has gone so very far afield from what it SHOULD be, but still......no reason for the hatin' season.
People can remain the BEST christian part of Christmas, it just takes us to remember to be decent humans to each other.

/axial tilt, solstice, geo year...I am an engineer so physics and astrology is spoken here but thanks for the reminder for those not "in the know"


I don't think that's the word you were looking for.
 
2012-11-19 11:20:25 AM

Dimensio: I have corrected an error in my previous posting. I apologize for any confusion that may have resulted.


you thought that was what needed correcting?

you sound mad. Y U mad?
 
gja [TotalFark]
2012-11-19 11:20:28 AM

Happy Hours: Silly me - everyone knows the Curse of Lono is the holiest of books.


No no no, "Behind the Green Door" is the holiest.
Erm, Hole-y ist? Sorry I get those 2 confused more often than a catholic priest.

/aisle seat, express train, burn-in-hell
 
2012-11-19 11:21:30 AM

newtigator: neongoats: OnlyM3: SnarfVader

Here we go again. Hurr Durr "War on Christmas" derpy derp derpity doo! Normally, I like this time of year. But these douchebags who insist I celebrate the season their way are getting to be intolerable, for Christ's sake.
Douchebags like the clown in this story being an attention wh*re?

If by attention whore, you mean Christians that had a tantrum because some atheists put up their own displays, then sure.

Funny thing is, Christians have no problem with Atheists displays. The converse isn't so true.


0/10. Really? Maybe try this in a story where Atheist displays weren't vandalized, but wow, was that lazy.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2012-11-19 11:23:01 AM

untaken_name: gja: 2. Our God is the only legitimate one you heathen

No christian would claim that? Isn't that the first farkin' commandment? Who's lying, you or your god?


The jackass that claims his translation and interpretation of all the writings is the only right one.

/hubris, look it up
//perfect,first stone, etc....
 
2012-11-19 11:23:21 AM

Dimensio: Be aware that you are attempting to argue with an individual who believes lying an acceptable means of justifying a position.


Care to cite an example?.... or, y'know, back up accusations with some kind of evidence?
 
2012-11-19 11:26:50 AM

Ihaveanevilparrot: Both sides are big babies.

The Atheist organizations for trolling instead of demonstrating their rights in an adult manner. Something like "We believe in the freedom not to believe,", with some kind non-religious, perhaps science oriented mural or picture (Maybe that old pic of Einstein and all the other scientists gathered for a picture) would have demonstrated their attitude toward religion, and the fact that there are other things to find interest in, while still remaining mature and sensitive toward the other people putting up displays. Maybe with some quotes from philosophers that aren't blatantly mocking our hostile toward religious people, but are more about people's right to be non-religious.
Instead they put up a bunch of meme's and trollworthy pictures and quotes, which makes us atheists that just want to keep to ourselves and be free to avoid religious activities look like a bunch of farking intolerant assholes.

The Christians groups are a bunch of big babies, because their religious freedoms aren't being quashed by not being able to put up a nativity scene in a public park. IMO, none of the groups should be putting up blatantly religious themed displays in public areas, and they are still left free to practice their religion without being able to do so. Saying "This is a shame that not everyone could act in a mature and adult manner," is one thing, but going to court as if they're being persecuted is ridiculous. And comparing the nativity scene to Jesus having nowhere to go? They are PLASTIC statues. Dramatizing much?

As far as the vandalism, is there even any proof the Christian groups did it? Kids vandalize shiat all the time, and they probably knew they'd get more flack if they were caught vandalizing Jesus, than some random internet memes. Or maybe they knew the Christian groups would get pointed at and blamed, and they could sit back and watch the hilarity that ensued. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the atheists did it themselves for that rea ...


The difference here is that the atheist groups aren't spending their time telling us all that Christians can't have any morals, because they don't believe in their deity/lack thereof.

\these are usually the same people who proclaim themselves Patriots, thereby insinuating that the rest of us give Fark All about our country, because we don't agree with their politics
\\DIAF, and do it quickly
 
2012-11-19 11:27:06 AM

gja: I will give agree it has gone so very far afield from what it SHOULD be, but still......no reason for the hatin' season.
People can remain the BEST christian part of Christmas, it just takes us to remember to be decent humans to each other.


Hate? Putting up some parodic displays isn't hate.

One of the problems with many religious people is that they interpret everything that isn't total submission as "hate."
 
gja [TotalFark]
2012-11-19 11:27:19 AM

Z-clipped: gja: 2. Our God is the only legitimate one you heathen

Really? Because that's literally a central tenet of christianity. It's like, a commandment and everything.


Not really
That argument fails. The commandment is thus "Thou shalt have no other gods before me", or in plain english 'you need to worship me as YOUR only god".
NOT, "go scream all derpy at anyone how thinks different than you for having a different god/deity/being to believe in!!!"
 
2012-11-19 11:27:31 AM

untaken_name: CheekyMonkey: Ah, Atheists. Feeling left out? Why not do your best to become just as annoying as the farking Christians currently are!

Not sure where you've been but you're way, way too late. The only people more annoying than religious people are aggressively irreligious people. To hell with all of them.


The funny thing is, I haven't ever really seen any aggressively irreligious people.

And this story certainly doesn't contain any. We can debate whether or not the displays put up by the Santa Monica atheists were the best way to go about putting forth their message, but the fact remains that they did nothing inherently wrong. Some assholes vandalized the atheists' displays, and the city opted out of the whole mess before it escalated further this year.

The blame for the whole mess falls squarely on the vandals, and I can't really blame the city for their response. The only alternative would be to waste taxpayer money posting police to guard the displays, and I can't support that, especially in this economy.
 
2012-11-19 11:28:02 AM

cman:

Wait until atheists hear that the names of the days of the week are of religious origin. That would be a fun lawsuit.


It's been done. French Republican Calendar. Not explicitly atheist, but it was an attempt to shed all of the superstitions of the Ancien Régime.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2012-11-19 11:28:38 AM

FloydA: gja: Uncle Tractor: And that, plus the star at the top of the tree, is just about the only christian thing about it. The reason for the season, aka axial tilt:

I will give agree it has gone so very far afield from what it SHOULD be, but still......no reason for the hatin' season.
People can remain the BEST christian part of Christmas, it just takes us to remember to be decent humans to each other.

/axial tilt, solstice, geo year...I am an engineer so physics and astrology is spoken here but thanks for the reminder for those not "in the know"

I don't think that's the word you were looking for.


If I used astronomy some might get all confused and whatnot.
 
2012-11-19 11:30:36 AM

untaken_name: gja: 2. Our God is the only legitimate one you heathen

No christian would claim that? Isn't that the first farkin' commandment? Who's lying, you or your god?


it's " "You shall have no other gods before me." It doesn't state that there are no other gods, just that we are to place none before Him and we are not to worship any of them.
 
2012-11-19 11:30:52 AM

gja:
If I used astronomy some might get all confused and whatnot.


Worrying about people in this thread being "confused" is probably not a productive use of your time. ;-)
 
2012-11-19 11:31:01 AM

mhd: Couldn't they just limit the exhibits to actual nativity scenes? Sure, there's freedom of speech, but if they were doing a gardening exhibit they'd probably be within their rights to prohibit anything by actual plants - or just tulips. No big chance of someone putting a Bolivian pan flute band in one of the lots.

Or were these general booths that just happened to be used for nativity scenes for 60 years?


So, they should of had the baby pastafarian in the manger, surrounded by farm animals and the Three Pasta Chefs?

\tell me you're not that f'ing dense, please
 
gja [TotalFark]
2012-11-19 11:36:11 AM

Uncle Tractor: Hate? Putting up some parodic displays isn't hate.

One of the problems with many religious people is that they interpret everything that isn't total submission as "hate."


I wasn't pointing directly at that example, just the general malcontent when two opposing views come to loggerheads.

And the one problem with EVERY religion is their expectation of blind faith. That aint gonna fly with reasonable folks who realize context is a critical part of interpretation.
 
2012-11-19 11:41:17 AM

give me doughnuts: xanadian: JackieRabbit: I suggest we stave off the broo-haa-haa by replacing the traditional nativity display with goat sacrifices and virgin de-flowerings.

Now this sounds like a party!

After we sacrifice the goats, can we cook them up in a nice curry? Trying to find a virgin to deflower is hungry-making work.


And I know how to make a mean curry.
 
2012-11-19 11:41:18 AM

PreMortem: "...something like our savior had to hunt for a place to be born because the world was not interested."

Wat


Shouldn't have ditched that reading comprehension class. It's an easy history to read and understand in the New Testament of the Holy Bible.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2012-11-19 11:43:14 AM

FloydA: gja:
If I used astronomy some might get all confused and whatnot.

Worrying about people in this thread being "confused" is probably not a productive use of your time. ;-)


Sad but true, methinks
 
2012-11-19 11:44:52 AM
The quote from the story that is used by this headline is asinine.

It's a sad, sad commentary on the attitudes of the day that a nearly 60-year-old Christmas tradition is now having to hunt for a home, something like our savior had to hunt for a place to be born because the world was not interested.

Really?

Jesus was born in Bethlehem in order fit the Messianic Prophecies of the Old Testament (see Mic 5:2). The concocted story that forces Jesus, Mary & Joseph into Bethlehem instead of their residence in Nazareth/Galilee is a Roman census that inexplicably required subjects to travel to the hometown of long-dead ancestors and for which there are a lack of contemporaneous sources validating its occurrence. Even assuming the story is true, it does not follow that "the world was not interested" because a poor couple from out of town couldn't find great lodgings during a mandated semi-migration. The whole point of Bethlehem as the birth place of a Messiah was precisely because it's small and out of the way...
 
2012-11-19 11:49:07 AM

Ihaveanevilparrot: JackieRabbit: Can we get back to discussing what's important: de-flowering virgins?

Look, I understand that virgins are rare unless you're into 14 year olds, but this problem is not insurmountable. We can have virtual virgins by asking the gals to abstain for a few weeks and double up on the Kegel exercises.

I do Kegels, but my hymen hasn't grown back yet. Am I doing something wrong?


Don't sweat it. You'll still be eligible. We'll give you a Get Out of Hymen Free card. We have to be flexible and reasonable. It is the holidays after all.
 
2012-11-19 11:50:46 AM

Z-clipped: Nah.. they decided to break shiat. Now it's "everybody out of the pool". Too bad.


Is this why we can't have nice things?
 
gja [TotalFark]
2012-11-19 11:52:15 AM

Ihaveanevilparrot: I do Kegels, but my hymen hasn't grown back yet. Am I doing something wrong?


How YOU doin?
 
2012-11-19 11:56:59 AM

gja: Not really
That argument fails. The commandment is thus "Thou shalt have no other gods before me", or in plain english 'you need to worship me as YOUR only god".


Uhhh...

Deuteronomy 4:35,39 - Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. (39) Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

Deuteronomy 6:4 - Hear, O Israel: The LORD thy God is one LORD. [Note in Mark 12:28-34 how Jesus and a Jewish scribe he encountered understood this text.]

Deuteronomy32:39 - See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

2 Samuel 7:22 - Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

1 Kings 8:60 - That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.

2 KINGS 5:15 - And he returned to the man of God, he and all his company, and came, and stood before him: and he said, Behold, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel; now therefore, I pray thee, take a blessing of thy servant.

2 Kings 19:15 - And Hezekiah prayed before the LORD, and said, O LORD God of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth.

1 Chronicles 17:20 - O LORD, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

Nehemiah 9:6 - Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou has made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

Psalm 18:31 - For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?

Psalm 86:10 - For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.

Isaiah 37:16,20 - O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou has made heaven and earth. (20) Now therefore, O LORD our God, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that thou art the LORD, even thou only.

Isaiah43:10,11 - Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he:before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.

Isaiah44:6,8 - Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.Fear ye not, neither be afraid; have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isaiah 45:21 - Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time: who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me.

Isaiah 46:9 - For I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.

Hosea 13:4 - Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me; for there is no savior beside me.

Joel 2:27 - And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

Zechariah 14:9 - And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

Mark 12:29-34 -And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

John 17:3 - And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Romans 3:30 - Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

1 Corinthians 8:4-6 - As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, andthat there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Galatians 3:20 - Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

Ephesians 4:6 - One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 Timothy 1:17 - Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

1 Timothy 2:5 - For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

James 2:19 - Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.


You sure about that?
 
2012-11-19 12:00:05 PM

trappedspirit: Is this why we can't have nice things?


Z-clipped: This is why we you can't have nice things.


Chill out you guys, I GOT THIS.jpg
 
mhd
2012-11-19 12:05:50 PM

CheapEngineer: \tell me you're not that f'ing dense, please


Just Bavarian, we're not that good with the whole church/state separation.

Which is why I'm always interested in the weird ways where that line is drawn in other countries, esp. the US. It does seem a bit arbitrary at times, even for legal matters. Tax-exempt churches, no school on Christmas or Jewish New Year, no problem with cities being utterly shut down on St. Patricks day, "In God We Trust" etc.

Let's say that, e.g. in that particular area of the city, during that particular time, those boxes are intended to be rented out to display Christian nativity scenes. In other locations and/or other times, other religions (and atheists) can make use of public property. That wouldn't establish a certain religion, nor prevent the freedom of exercising it, it would just schedule it (I did say that I'm German...). Just like you have different rallies or parades on different days.

Would that be any worse than "freedom of speech" zones?
 
2012-11-19 12:07:12 PM

Z-clipped: Deuteronomy 4:35,39


To be fair, there are also passages which hint at an older, henotheistic belief system, wherein other gods did actually exist. The Old Testament had a lot of authors.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2012-11-19 12:09:28 PM

Z-clipped: gja: Not really
That argument fails. The commandment is thus "Thou shalt have no other gods before me", or in plain english 'you need to worship me as YOUR only god".

Uhhh...

Deuteronomy 4:35,39 - Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. (39) Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

Deuteronomy 6:4 - Hear, O Israel: The LORD thy God is one LORD. [Note in Mark 12:28-34 how Jesus and a Jewish scribe he encountered understood this text.]

Deuteronomy32:39 - See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

2 Samuel 7:22 - Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

1 Kings 8:60 - That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.

2 KINGS 5:15 - And he returned to the man of God, he and all his company, and came, and stood before him: and he said, Behold, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel; now therefore, I pray thee, take a blessing of thy servant.

2 Kings 19:15 - And Hezekiah prayed before the LORD, and said, O LORD God of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth.

1 Chronicles 17:20 - O LORD, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

Nehemiah 9:6 - Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou has made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

Psalm 18:31 - For who is God save the ...


You referenced the commandment.
Z-clipped: gja: 2. Our God is the only legitimate one you heathen

Really? Because that's literally a central tenet of christianity. It's like, a commandment and everything.

No such COMMANDMENT. And I also view the bible as far too much conjecture and tainted opinion to take it literally.
 
2012-11-19 12:23:02 PM

Martian_Astronomer: Z-clipped: Deuteronomy 4:35,39

To be fair, there are also passages which hint at an older, henotheistic belief system, wherein other gods did actually exist. The Old Testament had a lot of authors.

gja used the word "legitimate" as a qualifier. I'm not saying the Bible doesn't recognize that other deities are worshiped in the world, but it's pretty clear on the "one TRUE god" front. There are no other legitimate gods for christians.

gja: You referenced the commandment.
Z-clipped: gja: 2. Our God is the only legitimate one you heathen

Really? Because that's literally a central tenet of christianity. It's like, a commandment and everything.

No such COMMANDMENT. And I also view the bible as far too much conjecture and tainted opinion to take it literally.


The commandment was just an example. Are you seriously saying that there are other "legitimate" gods that christians are allowed to worship, as long as they revere Jehova above them?
 
2012-11-19 12:26:45 PM
Man, my HTML is really messed up today. Sorry everybody.
 
2012-11-19 12:29:46 PM

gja: And I also view the bible as far too much conjecture and tainted opinion to take it literally..


Uh oh, does that mean it's possible the nativity story is conjecture?
 
2012-11-19 12:35:32 PM

cyks: FriarReb98: I understand how someone can not believe and all, but when Christians get one month out of the twelve of the year to be proud of their religion, it just seems petty to be sitting there and antagonizing them for it.


Why do we have to spend the last two months of every goddamned year treating each other like pricks because of what we believe?.



So, is it one month or two?

Actually, it's much, much longer than that.

Many stores began setting up their Christmas displays and selling trees back in September. 'Santa's Workshop' had arrived in the local mall before Halloween and will last until mid-January... at which point it will be taken down and replaced with the Easter Bunny who will then last until mid-April.

Only one month to be proud of their religion? I wish. It's currently just over 6 months and slowly continues to grow.


A am tempted to decorate my office space with St. Patrick's Day decor. If asked for an explanation, I will reference the Christmas-themed decorations established last week.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2012-11-19 12:36:48 PM

Z-clipped: Martian_Astronomer: Z-clipped: Deuteronomy 4:35,39

To be fair, there are also passages which hint at an older, henotheistic belief system, wherein other gods did actually exist. The Old Testament had a lot of authors.
gja used the word "legitimate" as a qualifier. I'm not saying the Bible doesn't recognize that other deities are worshiped in the world, but it's pretty clear on the "one TRUE god" front. There are no other legitimate gods for christians.

gja: You referenced the commandment.
Z-clipped: gja: 2. Our God is the only legitimate one you heathen

Really? Because that's literally a central tenet of christianity. It's like, a commandment and everything.

No such COMMANDMENT. And I also view the bible as far too much conjecture and tainted opinion to take it literally.

The commandment was just an example. Are you seriously saying that there are other "legitimate" gods that christians are allowed to worship, as long as they revere Jehova above them?


Of course not. Now don't be obtuse. I just didn't feel like addressing such a massive topic as that. Just wanted to point out there's no such commandment (the 'heathen' thing was a tad of levity, i have a somewhat off-center sense of humor).

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2012-11-19 12:36:50 PM

BronyMedic: Case in point, in 2000 85% of Americans identified with Christianity. in 2010, 75% did.


i heard that atheism is the fastest growing religion

TenJed_77: I just wish it was happening faster.


i suppose you could start feeding them to the lions?

orbister: There is nothing ethical or moral about following a book of instructions


where do morals come from?
 
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