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(Kansas.com)   "It's a sad, sad commentary on the attitudes of the day that a nearly 60-year-old Christmas tradition is now having to hunt for a home, something like our savior had to hunt for a place to be born because the world was not interested"   (kansas.com) divider line 449
    More: Sad, christmas, god, Los Angeles, Flying Spaghetti Monster, nativity, images of Jesus, christmas tradition, Freedom From Religion Foundation  
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12885 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Nov 2012 at 7:59 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-19 09:55:50 AM  

Ihaveanevilparrot: ArgusRun: There should be no place for religion in government. The religious people who forget or ignore or disagree with that need to be reminded at every step of the way. If a subtly mocking spaghetti monster or Poseidon is what it takes, then good for them.

I wonder how many of them even "got it" per se.

I live in the bible belt, and most of the very religious Christians I know have NO clue what the FSM is, and wouldn't understand the Poseidon thing as related to them at all....
No doubt a lot of the younger less religious Christians understood, but most of the hardcore Christians I encounter, regardless of locality, are older individuals whose use of the internet is mainly relegated to facebook and sending/receiving chain emails. And any young individuals that are highly religious, not just outwardly for their parents, are extremely sheltered by their parents, so they don't have free access encounter those images or comments anyway.


Good point. It might have been better to liaison with some other religions to put up displays. I think the only time I've every heard of someone "getting it" was that state legislator in Louisiana who was shocked when she found out that school vouchers would also be used for Islamic schools. Freedom of religion applies to alll religions. Not just yours.
 
2012-11-19 09:56:15 AM  

jso2897: In fact, we can speculate about his until the cows come home - and all we would be doing is speculating.
We lack the data to make any definitive evaluation. We can draw our own conclusions as to what is the most "probable" explanation - but the most probable thing isn't always what happens. We'll never know.


I'm actually pretty sure it was The Man.

The atheists are a minority, so he has to keep them down.

No display for you. Not yours.

/yes my jokes are terrible
//why are you pointing at the door? :(
 
2012-11-19 09:57:31 AM  
it's important to suppress viewpoints we don't agree with...
 
2012-11-19 09:57:32 AM  
Get real. The atheists are all doing this for attention as they feel unloved. Liberals are doing this because their prurient ways they feel are threatened by religion. But I'd agree that no political or religious statements belong on public property.. main so I don't have to hear the leftist WHINING about such.
 
2012-11-19 09:57:59 AM  

vudukungfu: PreMortem: "...something like our savior had to hunt for a place to be born because the world was not interested."

Wat

No, it's rat cheer inda babble. jebus werent berned yet but he hadda find a place to be berned. So he got mary and joseph to ride round all night lookin fer the motel 8. they left the lat on fer im. Den they all got squoze in the bern with da critters and a couple of black guys, but de black guys brought stuff, so they were cool. And Round John* was there, too.

*Round Joh, Vergen, don't you lissen to karols?


How I pictured Jesus driving Mary around:

i99.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-19 09:58:00 AM  

Uncle Tractor: Why is it that so many atheists in the US feel compelled to label atheists who speak up as assholes or pricks or whatever?

/at least I think it's just atheists in the US


Because they are trying to paint themselves as the different, hipster atheists that would never do something so crass as defend their lack of belief in a public forum. Some atheists consider a submissive conciliatory stance towards fundamentalists to be less upsetting and more harmonious a way to demonstrate their beliefs. The golden rule, and all that.

But some of us tried that, realized that Christians don't consider non Christians as equally human, and certainly don't believe in extending them the same rights and protections enjoyed by Christians. Christians are a special, elevated class to them, and the rules and restrictions that bind others matter not to them.

This whole display issue is the perfect example. Atheists get discriminated against by the Christians, Christians kick up a fuss, Christians ruin it for everyone. It's like history in miniature.
 
2012-11-19 09:59:42 AM  

ArgusRun: I think the only time I've every heard of someone "getting it" was that state legislator in Louisiana who was shocked when she found out that school vouchers would also be used for Islamic schools.


Someone from Louisiana figured something out? I am SHOCKED.

I've been there, and repeatedly seen people stop at green lights, and go on red, not to mention the "fast" food restaurants tend to take about 20 minutes and then not one item is what you ordered.
I like fried alligator bites though, so I tolerate them.
 
2012-11-19 10:04:04 AM  
SnarfVader

Here we go again. Hurr Durr "War on Christmas" derpy derp derpity doo! Normally, I like this time of year. But these douchebags who insist I celebrate the season their way are getting to be intolerable, for Christ's sake.

Douchebags like the clown in this story being an attention wh*re?
 
2012-11-19 10:05:06 AM  

jso2897: Actually, it would be OK with me if people of different faiths (or lack thereof) expressed their views in public space - as long as they could play nice. But they never can


Well, yeah, that's the point. The city realized at some point that constitutionally, they had to go "all or none" with respect to religious holiday displays, and lately "all" was getting to be too much of a hassle. The problem is that either way way, the "War on Christmas" people perceive their loss of unique recognition as persecution.

There are Christian groups out there dedicated to Church/State separation, and I would be thrilled if they got more press, but seeing has how they seem less legally active it seems unlikely. (That, and they don't play into the "mean atheists ruining everyone's fun" narrative.) Religious groups in the U.S. have benefited tremendously from secular government, and it's nice to see them acknowledge, even occasionally, that in order to enjoy the benefits of secular government, secular government has to be defended.
 
2012-11-19 10:07:32 AM  
Libs and probably Atheists wouldn't object to an Islamic display...at taxpayer expense no less :)
 
2012-11-19 10:08:01 AM  

OnlyM3: SnarfVader

Here we go again. Hurr Durr "War on Christmas" derpy derp derpity doo! Normally, I like this time of year. But these douchebags who insist I celebrate the season their way are getting to be intolerable, for Christ's sake.
Douchebags like the clown in this story being an attention wh*re?


If by attention whore, you mean Christians that had a tantrum because some atheists put up their own displays, then sure.
 
2012-11-19 10:09:29 AM  

mamoru: Happy Hours: Eat More Possum: You want a religious scene up? Put it up on your own land

I'm pretty sure religious speech is covered by the First Amendment. This point was that not only can the government not impose a religion on anyone, they also cannot stop you from practicing your religion.

You militant atheists are assholes

You see, there wouldn't be an issue if the Christians hadn't vandalized the displays that Atheists, also expressing their very equal first amendment rights, put up. It's a public space. The Christians do not get special privileges for their displays over those of other faiths or lack thereof.

But since the Christians went and vandalized the other displays, the city decided to cancel the whole thing rather than have the same kind of trouble this year. Now, the city's decision to try to avoid conflict may not be the correct decision, but don't blame the atheists for putting them in the position they were in to make such a decision.


Do you have proof that it was the Christians vandalizing the displays? Hindus hate Poseidon...goes back for centuries.
 
2012-11-19 10:10:13 AM  

neongoats: OnlyM3: SnarfVader

Here we go again. Hurr Durr "War on Christmas" derpy derp derpity doo! Normally, I like this time of year. But these douchebags who insist I celebrate the season their way are getting to be intolerable, for Christ's sake.
Douchebags like the clown in this story being an attention wh*re?

If by attention whore, you mean Christians that had a tantrum because some atheists put up their own displays, then sure.


Funny thing is, Christians have no problem with Atheists displays. The converse isn't so true.
 
2012-11-19 10:10:56 AM  

neongoats: But some of us tried that, realized that Christians Americans don't consider non Christians Americans as equally human, and certainly don't believe in extending them the same rights and protections enjoyed by Christians Americans. Christians Americans are a special, elevated class to them, and the rules and restrictions that bind others matter not to them.


Well, that's how it looks to the rest of the world. Can't have a state religion? Turn your state into a religion. Hooray for American Exceptionalism.
 
2012-11-19 10:13:19 AM  

newtigator: Libs and probably Atheists wouldn't object to an Islamic display...at taxpayer expense no less :)


The atheists weren't objecting to anyone's display, you farking jackass. But you are right, put up an Islamic display, put up a display of Jesus, Mohammad and Poseidon having a 4 way with Cthulhu for all I care. But you better be prepared to share space with people that aren't interested on your Hellenic-abrahamic tentacle cult.
 
2012-11-19 10:13:29 AM  

mamoru: You see, there wouldn't be an issue if the Christians hadn't vandalized the displays that Atheists, also expressing their very equal first amendment rights, put up. It's a public space. The Christians do not get special privileges for their displays over those of other faiths or lack thereof.

But since the Christians went and vandalized the other displays, the city decided to cancel the whole thing rather than have the same kind of trouble this year. Now, the city's decision to try to avoid conflict may not be the correct decision, but don't blame the atheists for putting them in the position they were in to make such a decision.


Oh look, religious people acting like petulant children, with no one to blame for their loss of privileges but themselves.

Happy Hours: You militant atheists are assholes


Case in point. This is why we you can't have nice things.

PirateKing: It's unlikely that there will be many explicitly atheistic displays on private property, so the religious scenes will far outnumber the rest.


While this is true, here's one of the many reasons why Baltimore will always have a warm place in my heart:

farm3.static.flickr.com

Happy Hours: Certain atheists set up displays for the sole purpose of pissing off some Christians.That is trolling.


But when christians proselytize, they're doing god's work. Yeah. OK.
 
2012-11-19 10:14:27 AM  

Uncle Tractor: Why is it that so many atheists in the US feel compelled to label atheists who speak up as assholes or pricks or whatever?

/at least I think it's just atheists in the US


I dunno.

Hopefully I wasn't personally coming off as such.

I don't like the WAY they spoke up, but I think speaking out and defending your freedom to believe or not believe, good and necessary.

I see at as similar to some of the black power groups back in the 70s saying stuff like "kill whitey."
Extreme example, but it's still nothing more than preaching to the choir, so to speak, and alienates themselves from people that would otherwise be on their side because they come off as just as intolerant as the whites that hate blacks. The only people in agreement are other members or radicals, and everyone else is thinking "wow you're kind of scary..."

In a similar vein, the only people that got these atheists mocking jokes and went "hell yeah! you tell 'em!" are other atheists, and anyone else that they would have gotten on their side if they presented a more creative and thought provoking display probably just went "wtf?"
 
2012-11-19 10:14:47 AM  
Sad what this country has become.
 
2012-11-19 10:15:08 AM  

newtigator: Libs and probably Atheists wouldn't object to an Islamic display...at taxpayer expense no less :)


i18.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-19 10:15:43 AM  

newtigator: neongoats: OnlyM3: SnarfVader

Here we go again. Hurr Durr "War on Christmas" derpy derp derpity doo! Normally, I like this time of year. But these douchebags who insist I celebrate the season their way are getting to be intolerable, for Christ's sake.
Douchebags like the clown in this story being an attention wh*re?

If by attention whore, you mean Christians that had a tantrum because some atheists put up their own displays, then sure.

Funny thing is, Christians have no problem with Atheists displays. The converse isn't so true.


Uh huh, that's why the atheist displays were vandalized at the height of the whole dust up. Sure. Coincidence.
 
2012-11-19 10:17:24 AM  

cassanovascotian: Being a dick is being a dick, even if you happen to sympathize with their non-beliefs.


Insisting on putting up religious displays on government land in a country founded on the separation of church and state is "being a dick".
 
2012-11-19 10:17:41 AM  
I have to say I strongly approve of the trolling of public nativity displays. It doesn't cost the state money in messy lawsuits but still points out that such displays can be highly volatile and the state is better off not getting involved in religious displays of any kind.

And no, hysterical War on Christmas folk, this is in no way a violation of freedom of religion, freedom of speech, or any other Constitutional right. Just suck it up and celebrate your private beliefs on private land.
 
2012-11-19 10:18:29 AM  

Swiftstone2012: Happy Hours: Eat More Possum: You want a religious scene up? Put it up on your own land

I'm pretty sure religious speech is covered by the First Amendment. This point was that not only can the government not impose a religion on anyone, they also cannot stop you from practicing your religion.

You militant atheists are assholes

You're absolutely right. Religious freedom is covered, but so is freedom from it. That's really the problem though, isn't it? Atheists aren't stopping "Christians" from practicing their religion. They're simply keeping you from foisting it off on everyone else, while attempting to acquire an air of legitimacy by putting up these assinine displays on prominent governmental properties. You know, the ones we ALL pay for. Then you act like spoiled children when you can't have it your way. Particularly when you cannot bully into silence those who feel differently. It is obscene and perverse.

You know why the Founding Fathers put that there? Because NO ONE is an asshole like a militant "Christian".


That's interesting. I'm not the Christian here but you presume I am. My city spends a lot of money every year on things I don't necessarily support. It's because we voted for those things explicitly or we voted for city council members who supported them.

Let me play devil's advocate and pick on our Octoberfest beer celebration. I'll neglect all the positive aspects about how it promotes local businesses (breweries and micro-breweries and even restaurants and local shops downtown) which all benefit from our citywide promotion of alcohol abuse. Why should those businesses get what is essentially a handout from the city and why should the city spend money promoting alcohol abuse? Is it because my fellow citizens like to drink beer? How dare they! What about all the people who don't drink (for whatever reason). What about all the people who are killed in alcohol-related accidents every year? Why should my city spend money promoting something that promotes substance abuse?

We are free to drink in this country. We're also free not to drink. That doesn't mean we're free from promotion of alcohol and while I wish my city didn't spend any tax-dollars on a beer fest (the breweries can afford to promote themselves) most people think it's a great idea and they think it promotes local businesses.

When you speak of freedom from religion I think you and I have a very different idea of what that means. Nobody can force me to go to church. That's freedom from religion. Anyone can come up to me on the street and tell me that I should go to church. I'm free to ignore them and I'm also free to tell them to fark off and leave me alone. That's freedom of speech and it works both ways. They can tell me that Christ died for my sins and I can tell them I think they're full of shiat.

There is no freedom from religion just as there is no freedom from any other form of speech with which you might disagree.
 
2012-11-19 10:18:41 AM  

neongoats: newtigator: neongoats: OnlyM3: SnarfVader

Here we go again. Hurr Durr "War on Christmas" derpy derp derpity doo! Normally, I like this time of year. But these douchebags who insist I celebrate the season their way are getting to be intolerable, for Christ's sake.
Douchebags like the clown in this story being an attention wh*re?

If by attention whore, you mean Christians that had a tantrum because some atheists put up their own displays, then sure.

Funny thing is, Christians have no problem with Atheists displays. The converse isn't so true.

Uh huh, that's why the atheist displays were vandalized at the height of the whole dust up. Sure. Coincidence.


Assertions that one party in a dispute of this nature bears all the fault really don't warrant a response.
 
2012-11-19 10:18:42 AM  

orbister: neongoats: But some of us tried that, realized that Christians Americans don't consider non Christians Americans as equally human, and certainly don't believe in extending them the same rights and protections enjoyed by Christians Americans. Christians Americans are a special, elevated class to them, and the rules and restrictions that bind others matter not to them.

Well, that's how it looks to the rest of the world. Can't have a state religion? Turn your state into a religion. Hooray for American Exceptionalism.


Pretty much ONLY fundamentalist Christians believe the American Exceptionalism, one true prince, lord of the rings, we are inherently better tripe. Take that to the bank.
 
2012-11-19 10:21:10 AM  

Martian_Astronomer: There are Christian groups out there dedicated to Church/State separation, and I would be thrilled if they got more press, but seeing has how they seem less legally active it seems unlikely.


Less like legally active, and more like too reasonable for the media to use in their sensationalistic reports.

All Christians want a religion based government, and all atheists want to oppress Christians. Everyone likes a good flamewar.

The song Dirty Laundry is just as true now as it was when it was written, sadly.
 
2012-11-19 10:25:18 AM  
sixty whole years?! thats like 1% of how old the whole UNIVERSE is!
 
2012-11-19 10:25:20 AM  

mhd: mhd: anything but actual plants

/dang my Germanic sausage wurst fingers

 
2012-11-19 10:25:33 AM  
Can we get back to discussing what's important: de-flowering virgins?

Look, I understand that virgins are rare unless you're into 14 year olds, but this problem is not insurmountable. We can have virtual virgins by asking the gals to abstain for a few weeks and double up on the Kegel exercises.
 
2012-11-19 10:26:12 AM  

Babwa Wawa: Happy Hours: I'm pretty sure religious speech is covered by the First Amendment. This point was that not only can the government not impose a religion on anyone, they also cannot stop you from practicing your religion.

You militant atheists are assholes

"Scenes" are not speech, you retard. You want to hand out leaflets or preach in the park, go ahead. If you want to act out the nativity with live people, feel free. But if you want to put up a scene and then leave it, you need a permit, just as if you were putting up a billboard.

And as someone pointed out earlier, they'd have continued permission if someone hadn't chosen to vandalize the atheists' display last year.


If scenes are speeches, then neither are movies. Tard.
 
2012-11-19 10:26:30 AM  

jso2897: Assertions that one party in a dispute of this nature bears all the fault really don't warrant a response


Pretty sure he's just trolling.

Badly.

Then again, it's early. I'm sure some gullible Christians will show up later and take the bait.
 
2012-11-19 10:27:30 AM  

jso2897: In fact, we can speculate about his until the cows come home - and all we would be doing is speculating.


True...in the case of my parents nativity scene, I'm going with teenagers with no specific message. In the case of vandalism of atheist displays in Santa Monica I have to say I don't know, but I don't believe it was any part of an organized movement by any church to quash atheist views.


Z-clipped: Happy Hours: Certain atheists set up displays for the sole purpose of pissing off some Christians.That is trolling.

But when christians proselytize, they're doing god's work. Yeah. OK.


They believe they are. You can call it what you want, but it's not trolling.
 
2012-11-19 10:27:57 AM  

JackieRabbit: Can we get back to discussing what's important: de-flowering virgins?

Look, I understand that virgins are rare unless you're into 14 year olds, but this problem is not insurmountable. We can have virtual virgins by asking the gals to abstain for a few weeks and double up on the Kegel exercises.


I do Kegels, but my hymen hasn't grown back yet. Am I doing something wrong?
 
2012-11-19 10:29:03 AM  

Z-clipped: cassanovascotian: Being a dick is being a dick, even if you happen to sympathize with their non-beliefs.

Insisting on putting up religious displays on government land in a country founded on the separation of church and state is "being a dick".


Be aware that you are attempting to argue with an individual who believes lying an acceptable means of justifying a position. The fact that his premises are, to him, irrelevant to the validity of his argument.
 
2012-11-19 10:32:23 AM  

Dimensio: Z-clipped: cassanovascotian: Being a dick is being a dick, even if you happen to sympathize with their non-beliefs.

Insisting on putting up religious displays on government land in a country founded on the separation of church and state is "being a dick".

Be aware that you are attempting to argue with an individual who believes lying an acceptable means of justifying a position. The fact that his premises are false are, to him, irrelevant to the validity of his argument.


I have corrected an error in my previous posting. I apologize for any confusion that may have resulted.
 
2012-11-19 10:35:56 AM  

xanadian: JackieRabbit: I suggest we stave off the broo-haa-haa by replacing the traditional nativity display with goat sacrifices and virgin de-flowerings.

Now this sounds like a party!


We film the whole thing. Call it Porno For Gyros.
 
2012-11-19 10:37:51 AM  
Sort of off topic, maybe? I'm a photographer, and I find images all over the place. I shot this one in Austin, Texas in someone's yard. Now, I also sell my images. Just ended my first shows ever in Colorado. I've sold this image all over Texas, Ohio, and online without issue. My Sock Monkey Nativity Scene is usually a best seller, but offended at least 8 people at the Colorado shows. How do I know? Because they were very vocal about it.

One of the problems with Christians is they lost their sense of humor centuries ago.

CSS
imageshack.us
 
2012-11-19 10:38:30 AM  

doglover: Happy Hours: Eat More Possum: You want a religious scene up? Put it up on your own land

I'm pretty sure religious speech is covered by the First Amendment. This point was that not only can the government not impose a religion on anyone, they also cannot stop you from practicing your religion.

You militant atheists are assholes

This.

No different than the anti-drugs and anti-drinking crowd. They just want other people to be miserable. Worthless, the lot of them.


Waah.
 
2012-11-19 10:38:34 AM  
Here's a list of the hundreds of churches in Santa Monica,it should be pretty easy to find a new home:

http://www.usachurch.com/california/Santa_Monica/churches.htm
 
2012-11-19 10:41:12 AM  
I happen to like cristmas
(no im not christian)

one of the few times of the year that many folks (not all ) try to be less assholy

so if the christians are otherwise being good
please leave them alone and dont poke them
 
2012-11-19 10:43:10 AM  
I don't care if you want to recreate the garden of eden with a life size replica of the temple and the noah's ark, just two rules. Don't do it on my property and don't use my tax money. You have to be some special ahole to give a shiat besides those two points.
 
2012-11-19 10:44:51 AM  

Happy Hours: They believe they are. You can call it what you want, but it's not trolling.


OK. I call it "offensively arrogant, presumptuous and self-involved". Which coincidentally, is also the phrase I ascribe to your idea that "pissing off christians" is the only reason that atheists exercise their rights to equal time in situations like these.

Get over yourself. You're not the center of the universe, no matter what your holy book might tell you.
 
2012-11-19 10:46:54 AM  

Happy Hours: Eat More Possum: You want a religious scene up? Put it up on your own land

I'm pretty sure religious speech is covered by the First Amendment. This point was that not only can the government not impose a religion on anyone, they also cannot stop you from practicing your religion.

You militant atheists are assholes


fark You Asshole.

Keep the nativity displays on church and/or other private property and there won't be an issue.

Put it on my (read public) land and you can kiss my big fat ass while you to take it down.
 
2012-11-19 10:47:20 AM  
Ah, Atheists. Feeling left out? Why not do your best to become just as annoying as the farking Christians currently are!
 
2012-11-19 10:49:55 AM  
demotivators.despair.com
 
2012-11-19 10:50:50 AM  

Dimensio: The fact that his premises are false are, to him, irrelevant to the validity of his argument.


Well, if you want to get technical... they aren't.
The soundness of his argument is another matter. ; )

Mr. Cat Poop: We film the whole thing. Call it Porno For Gyros.


Well done. Perry Farrel sees what you did there.

bindlestiff2600: so if the christians are otherwise being good


Nah.. they decided to break shiat. Now it's "everybody out of the pool". Too bad.
 
2012-11-19 10:51:39 AM  
I'm a supporter of constructive trolling. Government allows a religious display (from any religion) on public property, troll the shiat out of them. If the government in some way PAID for that display, then double-down on the trolling. Don't break the law, but force the issue of having equal representation until the whole fiasco gets dragged down under its own weight.

/maybe I'm still irritated that I got woke up by people going door-to-door to invite people to a local Baptist church
//they had the nerve to have kids along as human shields so I couldn't tell them off without feeling like a dick
 
2012-11-19 10:53:09 AM  

Arumat: I'm a supporter of constructive trolling. Government allows a religious display (from any religion) on public property, troll the shiat out of them. If the government in some way PAID for that display, then double-down on the trolling. Don't break the law, but force the issue of having equal representation until the whole fiasco gets dragged down under its own weight.

/maybe I'm still irritated that I got woke up by people going door-to-door to invite people to a local Baptist church
//they had the nerve to have kids along as human shields so I couldn't tell them off without feeling like a dick


Never allow the presence of children to diminish the severity of your response.
 
2012-11-19 10:53:18 AM  
Dimensio:

Your typing issues seem to have rubbed off on me.
 
2012-11-19 10:57:02 AM  

CheekyMonkey: Ah, Atheists. Feeling left out? Why not do your best to become just as annoying as the farking Christians currently are!


Not sure where you've been but you're way, way too late. The only people more annoying than religious people are aggressively irreligious people. To hell with all of them.
 
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