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(Kansas.com)   "It's a sad, sad commentary on the attitudes of the day that a nearly 60-year-old Christmas tradition is now having to hunt for a home, something like our savior had to hunt for a place to be born because the world was not interested"   (kansas.com) divider line 449
    More: Sad, christmas, god, Los Angeles, Flying Spaghetti Monster, nativity, images of Jesus, christmas tradition, Freedom From Religion Foundation  
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12885 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Nov 2012 at 7:59 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-19 09:05:17 AM  

tkwasny: cman: And people wonder why we Americans are so divided. We are more content with pissing in everyone's coffee instead of live and let live

It's the sports mentality of winning being more important that what you've won, or what moral integrity, common decency, or display of common sense you had to sacrifice to win. As long as "my side" won it doesn't matter if it means we win a trip off some cliff. So long as my side won.


Hmm. It sounds like you might be alluding to some real-world event whose outcome you are unhappy about.
 
2012-11-19 09:06:45 AM  

jso2897: However one feels about religion, it is foolish to pretend that it is not deeply entertwined in human culture. At some point in the future, it may not be - but we don't live in the future. And in a inter-human dealings, mutual respect is usually the way to go. Of course, people of faith could also use to improve their track record in that regard. Everybody could.


Spirituality is entwined, yes, but that by no means makes it indispensable. We are an inquisitive species; that may be due to a cause or an effect of our evolution, but regardless, it drives us to wonder about the world and the universe and what makes it tick. For thousands of years we had no better than our own two eyes to see, our ears to hear and our hands to touch the world, and so much of its true nature remained hidden, obscured or incomprehensible. So we made up stories. There was no malicious intent, no desire to deceive. We were simply trying to make sense of the world. Now, some were inspired by this to create great works of art, yes, but that does not make up for the damage done by those whose desire to repress the advance of knowledge in order to preserve their status quo caused forever lost ages of intellectual development. There is no getting the time of the dark ages back, it is gone and we must move on and hopefully learn from it what we can. That lesson, I believe, is that superstitious belief is to be relegated to the same status as children's fairy tales. It is sometimes amusing and often carries some moral lesson, but when it comes to matters of public policy, it carries as much weight as a reading of Snow White would in a court case deciding the fate of genetically modified fruit.
 
2012-11-19 09:07:12 AM  

neongoats: All that being said: you churches bilk your people out of shiatloads of money and don't farking pay a dime in taxes, so here is an idea.. Use that money to put a display up at your church, on your church land.


That's not a particularly bad idea. I grew up near a church that did exactly that. Every year they had a live nativity scene with real people and everything. I'm not sure what they did. It kind of looked like the cheesy nativity display my parents put up in our front yard except they used real people.

Can we keep all non-religious groups from demonstrating on public land too? Surely the Freedom From Religion organization has an office somewhere that they can organize a protest on their property. And I'm sure the Democratic party and the GOP have offices too. Let's keep these people on their own land. No public protests or demonstrations of any kind! If it's good enough for religion, it's good enough for any kind of speech.
 
2012-11-19 09:07:40 AM  

cman: xanadian: DerAppie: xanadian: The question becomes: are these churches putting up their religious stuff on government property (i.e., city hall grounds)? Then it runs afoul of a government purporting to favor one religion (or non-religion) over another. Hence, why the atheists have put up their OWN displays.

If they did it to get equal time they should have picked another date. Putting Poseidon or FSM displays up right next to those of the Christians is just juvenile behaviour. Almost as if the best way to protest that they could come up with was similar to the kid with his finger hovering an inch from your forehead while claiming "I'm not touching you!" Just let them have their fun for a month or two and pick another period of similar length to put up your own display. But no one is interested in doing that because the drama would only be half of what can be generated in December.

I have to disagree with the last bit. I think atheists having their displays up during the Xmas season is perfectly fine, if it serves a purpose other than just trolling. Like the historical aspects of Christmas I mentioned in my previous posts: about how it's a pagan holiday co-opted by the Catholics of the day. And even then, I'm sure that's only part of the story.

Wait until atheists hear that the names of the days of the week are of religious origin. That would be a fun lawsuit.


The next time an Odin, Tyr, Freyja, Thor, Saturn, etc, continually and actively try and suborn my secular government, I'll be sure to complain about the days of the week.

Which, makes me wonder if Romney sat around before the election trying to decide which month should be named after him, so he could be remembered like Augustus Ceasar. Because frankly, all the shiat that's come out post election makes me think he thought of himself that way. And that's not even talking The Lord of the rings style white horse prophecy silliness.
 
2012-11-19 09:08:55 AM  

xanadian: jso2897: Thing is - the expresion of belief where permitted is "perfectly fine" even if the objective IS trolling. There is nothing in the 1st amendment about "except for trolling". You can't have freedom of expression in a public place for some, but not for others.

Oh, yeah, legally, trolling is "perfectly fine." I'm talking about from the "don't be a dick" standpoint. And, like I mentioned earlier, my initial reaction to something like the Pastafarian display would've garnered a few laughs from me. But then I'd think better of it later.

I guess I'm a bit of a dick, too. :P


Trouble is, it's subjective, and law is not. One man's dick is another mans hero. That's the reason that this sort of thing can't work in the long run - not only can't people play nice, they can't even agree on what constitutes playing nice.
 
2012-11-19 09:10:52 AM  
"Missing from the courtroom drama will be Vix and his fellow atheists, who are not parties to the case. Their role outside court highlights a tactical shift as atheists evolve into a vocal minority eager to get force their non-beliefs into the public square onto everyone else as never before."

There. FTFY
 
2012-11-19 09:11:14 AM  

StrangeQ: jso2897: However one feels about religion, it is foolish to pretend that it is not deeply entertwined in human culture. At some point in the future, it may not be - but we don't live in the future. And in a inter-human dealings, mutual respect is usually the way to go. Of course, people of faith could also use to improve their track record in that regard. Everybody could.

Spirituality is entwined, yes, but that by no means makes it indispensable. We are an inquisitive species; that may be due to a cause or an effect of our evolution, but regardless, it drives us to wonder about the world and the universe and what makes it tick. For thousands of years we had no better than our own two eyes to see, our ears to hear and our hands to touch the world, and so much of its true nature remained hidden, obscured or incomprehensible. So we made up stories. There was no malicious intent, no desire to deceive. We were simply trying to make sense of the world. Now, some were inspired by this to create great works of art, yes, but that does not make up for the damage done by those whose desire to repress the advance of knowledge in order to preserve their status quo caused forever lost ages of intellectual development. There is no getting the time of the dark ages back, it is gone and we must move on and hopefully learn from it what we can. That lesson, I believe, is that superstitious belief is to be relegated to the same status as children's fairy tales. It is sometimes amusing and often carries some moral lesson, but when it comes to matters of public policy, it carries as much weight as a reading of Snow White would in a court case deciding the fate of genetically modified fruit.


My point exactly - what is now the case may not be the case in the future. Not only does Man evolve - his culture evolves with him. But the fact remains that where we are now is where we are now.
 
2012-11-19 09:12:02 AM  

cman: xanadian: DerAppie: xanadian: The question becomes: are these churches putting up their religious stuff on government property (i.e., city hall grounds)? Then it runs afoul of a government purporting to favor one religion (or non-religion) over another. Hence, why the atheists have put up their OWN displays.

If they did it to get equal time they should have picked another date. Putting Poseidon or FSM displays up right next to those of the Christians is just juvenile behaviour. Almost as if the best way to protest that they could come up with was similar to the kid with his finger hovering an inch from your forehead while claiming "I'm not touching you!" Just let them have their fun for a month or two and pick another period of similar length to put up your own display. But no one is interested in doing that because the drama would only be half of what can be generated in December.

I have to disagree with the last bit. I think atheists having their displays up during the Xmas season is perfectly fine, if it serves a purpose other than just trolling. Like the historical aspects of Christmas I mentioned in my previous posts: about how it's a pagan holiday co-opted by the Catholics of the day. And even then, I'm sure that's only part of the story.

Wait until atheists hear that the names of the days of the week are of religious origin. That would be a fun lawsuit.


We already knew.

Wait until the Christians learn that the days of the week are named after "false" gods.
 
2012-11-19 09:14:12 AM  

cman: Wait until atheists hear that the names of the days of the week are of religious origin. That would be a fun lawsuit.


You know what's really fun? The fact that atheists consistantly score higher on religious historical tests than their respective believers. Atheists were pointing out to the Christians that they were using various gods to name the days of the week by the time they hit junior high.

The difference is nobody believes in those gods anymore, or at least very few do, and nobody takes the naming convention as a directive to believe or even as an endorsement of Norse religion.
 
2012-11-19 09:14:31 AM  

neongoats: So pretty much the only time in the long history of this tradition that vandalism became a big problem, just happens to coincide with Christian poutrage over having to share space with atheists, but to you that spells "random vandalism".

Wake up and smell the burning crosses. It's documented atypical Christian behavior whenever anything nonchristian notices "hey, the Constitution protects US TOO"!

By and large a violent cult, few of which exhibit any of the virtues Jesus felt we're important. Boy they love the fire and hate of Paul though.


Wait....

You have documentation that no vandalism has happened at all to any displays over the last 60 years? That is pretty impressive, since I don't think I know of anything that goes up every year in a major city for that many years altogether avoid vandalism.
Every year some church or other gets its nativity scene trashed by someone and it ends up on the news. Or a public display gets vandalized.
I seen several stories on the news over the years, of people painting nazi symbols on stuff, and everyone HORRIFIED that anti-semites could be in their community, then it turns out it was some asshole kids that have no affiliations or beliefs with anyone at all, but rather want to cause a major scene and shock the adults.

Like everyone here echoes, until it conflicts with their opinion, correlation does not equal causation. 
The information seems to link the vandalism to the Christians, and it could very well be them, but no media is going to say "despite no evidence" since it doesn't equal good sensationalism to get people like you in an uproar.

Does it even matter which side it was anyway? Both are being asshats. Both sides have people that are capable of such thing, and those people don't necessarily reflect the whole group. So it's a moot point.
I don't want to be associated with the asshole atheists because they're idiot trolls, and I doubt an average Christian wants to be associated with a few intolerant vandals. fark agenda based organized groups of people in general, whether religious or not, as they tend to all be a bunch of intolerant morons, or at least run and presented by people that are.
 
2012-11-19 09:16:36 AM  
This is definitely a 1st Amendment violation.
Also the guy in the article is a complete douche.

/atheist
//likes nativity scenes
 
2012-11-19 09:17:10 AM  

Happy Hours: You militant atheists are assholes


madmikesamerica.com

/EABOD you fascist ass.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2012-11-19 09:18:01 AM  

FriarReb98: I feel like I'm looking at the command deck of Spaceball One when I read this article - nothing but Assholes with a capital A. Atheists trying to provoke the Christians, Christians dicking out on the atheists for provoking them, just sounds like they're all just miserable pricks who hate each other.

I'm a lapsed Catholic. I admit I don't really like going to church, pretty much because it doesn't do anything for me anymore and I feel like I know when I'm doing good and when I'm being a dick. But when we're talking about a frickin' religious holiday, it's hard to sit there and say "you know what? I don't think that nativity scene belongs there." I understand how someone can not believe and all, but when Christians get one month out of the twelve of the year to be proud of their religion, it just seems petty to be sitting there and antagonizing them for it. I'm sure if the atheists lost their extra day off in December they'd be pissing and moaning about working too much, too.

Why do we all have to be a bunch of pricks to each other? Why do we have to spend the last two months of every goddamned year treating each other like pricks because of what we believe? Maybe it's because my best friend is Wiccan and another good friend's wife is a Reiki priestess, and I was taught by very ecumenical-minded people even at a Catholic college, but it just seems like a waste and a denouncement of Christian principles to be so dickish about religion or a lack thereof. Especially when it comes to the time of year that's supposed to be about family, about acceptance, about good will towards all, and just generally not being a dick.



^^^THIS^^^ so VERY much this.
Look folks, it's called CHRISTmas, or broken down in structure "Christ's mass".
I am a recovering catholic, so I am essentially rowing the same boat as Friar.
This whole "you aren't validating my beliefs so I am going to be an asshat and start shiat and cause a frikking ruckus thereby ruining the entire thing for all because misery loves company" crap has GOT to stop.

And that goes for BOTH ends of the spectrum on religion, from "every sperm is sacred" to "that was a nice bit of biology right there, you have a new being in your womb!"

Religion needs to stay the hell out of government and government needs to keep their filthy hands off religion. Whenever the two get near each other there is either a conflagration or corruption, inevitably.

And we need to stop shiating on each other (unless you are into that, but that's another thread altogether) and learn to let each other be.

/respect, how does that work?
 
mhd
2012-11-19 09:18:26 AM  

liam76: Not unless they wanted to violate the 1st.


Wouldn't that just be another zoning law?
 
2012-11-19 09:19:31 AM  

StrangeQ: cman: Wait until atheists hear that the names of the days of the week are of religious origin. That would be a fun lawsuit.

You know what's really fun? The fact that atheists consistantly score higher on religious historical tests than their respective believers. Atheists were pointing out to the Christians that they were using various gods to name the days of the week by the time they hit junior high.

The difference is nobody believes in those gods anymore, or at least very few do, and nobody takes the naming convention as a directive to believe or even as an endorsement of Norse religion.


My mother introduced me to Norse mythology at a fairly early age (7 or 8, IIRC). I learned a lot about Odin, Baldur, Thor, Loki, etc. It was all in this really cool picture book.

Oh, and my mother is an atheist. Guess that's no surprise. ;)
 
2012-11-19 09:19:31 AM  

Babwa Wawa: t3knomanser: That's the best reason for keeping government away from religious holidays.

There are plenty of other, better, reasons.

[http://i.imgur.com/ByBuN.jpg]




testing my theory on gore porn vs admins
 
2012-11-19 09:20:02 AM  
Monotheists reacting violently to others beliefs? Where have I seen that before?

www.nypost.com

/Hot like digital hell
 
2012-11-19 09:20:12 AM  

Happy Hours: neongoats: All that being said: you churches bilk your people out of shiatloads of money and don't farking pay a dime in taxes, so here is an idea.. Use that money to put a display up at your church, on your church land.

That's not a particularly bad idea. I grew up near a church that did exactly that. Every year they had a live nativity scene with real people and everything. I'm not sure what they did. It kind of looked like the cheesy nativity display my parents put up in our front yard except they used real people.

Can we keep all non-religious groups from demonstrating on public land too? Surely the Freedom From Religion organization has an office somewhere that they can organize a protest on their property. And I'm sure the Democratic party and the GOP have offices too. Let's keep these people on their own land. No public protests or demonstrations of any kind! If it's good enough for religion, it's good enough for any kind of speech.


The atheists weren't the ones demanding exclusivity. But I'm fine with Christians using the public propery, I'm not at all fine with their "only WE get to do it!" Sense of entitlement.

And yes, to an atheist, your dear and fluffy lord is exactly as ridiculous and invented a fantasy as Poseidon. The only difference is that no one bombs clinics in Poseidon's name, Poseidon's worshippers aren't constantly trying to wrest control of my government and institute a Poseidon centered theological dictatorship.

Jesus wishes he could say the same thing, but his worshippers are off indulging in Paul inspired barbarism and hate.
 
2012-11-19 09:20:31 AM  

xanadian: I have to disagree with the last bit. I think atheists having their displays up during the Xmas season is perfectly fine, if it serves a purpose other than just trolling. Like the historical aspects of Christmas I mentioned in my previous posts: about how it's a pagan holiday co-opted by the Catholics of the day. And even then, I'm sure that's only part of the story.


Oh, I agree. I was just talking about the Poseidon stunt they pulled. No reason why they couldn't put stuff up that symbolises an older meaning. Put up you trees, wreaths and whatnot and tell people you are celebrating the turning of seasons. I am pretty sure that no one protested the Hanukkah display. They weren't being dicks by pointing out that Jesus fails the messiah requirements set out in various prophesies. They did their own thing and went on with their life. Just don't go pointing to the Christian display and claiming that what they are doing is wrong and/or stupid.
 
2012-11-19 09:21:15 AM  
For I the Lord Jehovah, thy God, am a jealous God.
 
2012-11-19 09:21:28 AM  

Happy Hours: Eat More Possum: You want a religious scene up? Put it up on your own land

I'm pretty sure religious speech is covered by the First Amendment. This point was that not only can the government not impose a religion on anyone, they also cannot stop you from practicing your religion.

You militant atheists are assholes


You're absolutely right. Religious freedom is covered, but so is freedom from it. That's really the problem though, isn't it? Atheists aren't stopping "Christians" from practicing their religion. They're simply keeping you from foisting it off on everyone else, while attempting to acquire an air of legitimacy by putting up these assinine displays on prominent governmental properties. You know, the ones we ALL pay for. Then you act like spoiled children when you can't have it your way. Particularly when you cannot bully into silence those who feel differently. It is obscene and perverse.

You know why the Founding Fathers put that there? Because NO ONE is an asshole like a militant "Christian".
 
2012-11-19 09:23:32 AM  

xanadian: Named after Roman gods, I believe...No, wait, Norse gods. I think (for example) Friday was based off of "Freyr's Day" or something.


In english, the days are named for the moon, Tyr, Woden / Odin, Thor, Frigg, Saturn, and the sun. It's the same in norwegian except for saturday, which we call "washing day" (lørdag).
 
2012-11-19 09:24:19 AM  
I suggest we stave off the broo-haa-haa by replacing the traditional nativity display with goat sacrifices and virgin de-flowerings.
 
2012-11-19 09:25:01 AM  

JackieRabbit: I suggest we stave off the broo-haa-haa by replacing the traditional nativity display with goat sacrifices and virgin de-flowerings.


Now this sounds like a party!
 
2012-11-19 09:25:20 AM  
Maybe if the christians hadn't made such a farking stink about an atheist putting up his own display, they'd continue to be able to put up a nativity.

They decided to act like children, and now they are being treated as such. Nobody gets to play anymore.
 
2012-11-19 09:26:14 AM  
Well, the rational part of the discussion was nice, and lasted longer than usual. Y'all enjoy your flamewar.
 
2012-11-19 09:26:21 AM  

Uncle Tractor: xanadian: Named after Roman gods, I believe...No, wait, Norse gods. I think (for example) Friday was based off of "Freyr's Day" or something.

In english, the days are named for the moon, Tyr, Woden / Odin, Thor, Frigg, Saturn, and the sun. It's the same in norwegian except for saturday, which we call "washing day" (lørdag).


Like the Germanic G and W, there is no uniform Germanic name for Saturday. English, Dutch, and Afrikkans use Saturday or a various form
 
2012-11-19 09:26:38 AM  

willfullyobscure: Babwa Wawa: t3knomanser: That's the best reason for keeping government away from religious holidays.

There are plenty of other, better, reasons.

[http://i.imgur.com/ByBuN.jpg]



testing my theory on gore porn vs admins


whoops. Lets' test it again. death by stoning vs free cat 


cdn.ebaumsworld.com
 
2012-11-19 09:26:54 AM  

gja: Look folks, it's called CHRISTmas, or broken down in structure "Christ's mass".


And that, plus the star at the top of the tree, is just about the only christian thing about it. The reason for the season, aka axial tilt:

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-11-19 09:27:11 AM  

xanadian: JackieRabbit: I suggest we stave off the broo-haa-haa by replacing the traditional nativity display with goat sacrifices and virgin de-flowerings.

Now this sounds like a party!


Hazza! For Traditional Values™!
 
2012-11-19 09:27:59 AM  

Rasraf Mekerk: This is definitely a 1st Amendment violation.
Also the guy in the article is a complete douche.

/atheist
//likes nativity scenes


I like them, too. On private land. I like most Christmas/Hannukah/Kwanza/Solstice decorations, so long as they aren't overdone and tacky. If the city is going to put up decorations, or allow others to put them up on public property, they shouldn't be from any particular faith.
 
2012-11-19 09:29:13 AM  
Are meerkats still ok?

farm8.staticflickr.com

/E in the P if you want a set
 
2012-11-19 09:31:26 AM  

jso2897: Maybe. I am deeply suspicious of "false flag" explanations - their track record of turning out to be true is very poor. I'm not saying it never happens, but the vast majority of the time it is just deflection.


Doesn't necessarily have to be a false flag operation. Kids vandalize stuff all the time. Every year there are thousands of garden gnomes and baby jesuses that get stolen from people's yards. I'm not really sure these are people who necessarily have a problem with garden gnomes or Jesus. They're just kids looking to mess things up. It's senseless destruction of property but nonetheless it happens.

We all remember the inflatable snowman who got stabbed in someone's front yard, don't we? Did the kids who stabbed the inflatable snowman have some sort of hatred for inflatable snowmen? Or were they just being brats on a rampage?

When I was a kid, my parents used to set up a nativity display in our front yard (our property). One year someone stole Mary and Joseph and the baby Jesus and left them in a ditch a couple of miles down the road. We didn't see that as an act of anti-Christian behavior - we viewed it as an act of senseless vandalism.

Did we not get the message? Were atheists really sending us a very clear message that my parent's display of faith was not acceptable in the neighborhood where I grew up? Should I judge all non-believers (including myself) by that senseless destruction of someone else's property?
 
2012-11-19 09:31:53 AM  
Why is it that so many atheists in the US feel compelled to label atheists who speak up as assholes or pricks or whatever?

/at least I think it's just atheists in the US
 
2012-11-19 09:32:08 AM  

cassanovascotian: Let's stop for a second and be honest with ourselves. The atheists' "display" wasn't exactly a display of something meaningful and valuable that they wanted to showcase about a seasonal holiday they celebrate


Perhaps they found the idea that they could say what they wanted without subscribing to a particular set of myths both meaningful and valuable?
 
2012-11-19 09:32:20 AM  

gja: Look folks, it's called CHRISTmas, or broken down in structure "Christ's mass".


Now, maybe. Before the Christians appropriation it was called Yule or Yuletide or simply a celebration of the solstice. The absolute most infuriating thing about this and the reason why I have no sympathy for Christian groups in this situation is that despite the season's historical background, they insist on claiming it as a purely Christian holiday with purely Christian roots when such a claim is utterly false. I will not now or ever support a group who runs on a platform of outright falsehoods.
 
2012-11-19 09:32:57 AM  

xanadian: JackieRabbit: I suggest we stave off the broo-haa-haa by replacing the traditional nativity display with goat sacrifices and virgin de-flowerings.

Now this sounds like a party!


After we sacrifice the goats, can we cook them up in a nice curry? Trying to find a virgin to deflower is hungry-making work.
 
2012-11-19 09:37:51 AM  

xanadian: /while Jesus didn't say word one about it, but had a LOT to say about hypocrisy


"There are 6 admonishments in the Bible concerning homosexual activity and our enemies are always throwing them up to us usually in a vicious way and very much out of context. What they don't want us to remember is that there are 362 admonishments in the Bible concerning heterosexual activity. I don't mean to imply by this that God doesn't love straight people, only that they seem to require a great deal more supervision." (from "Butch Fatale" by Lynn Lavner)
 
2012-11-19 09:37:59 AM  

DerAppie: almost as if the best way to protest that they could come up with was similar to the kid with his finger hovering an inch from your forehead while claiming "I'm not touching you!"


Best description I've seen in the thread yet.

Beerbarian: Seems like maybe the city was getting sick of this anyway since they were funding the lottery process


Pretty much what I gathered from the article. The vandalism was just a good excuse to get out of it after 60 yrs.

Uncle Tractor: IMO trying to educate certain kinds of christian is no better than trolling them, and from what I can tell, they were trolled HARD.


Like you said - certain kinds. That doesn't mean that the more moderate or less religious Christians can't be educated to be more tolerant. Trying to educate the hardest of the hardcore members of any group is futile. It's the rest you want listening. Same with politics. There aren't going to be any hardcore republicans voting for a democrat, or vice versa, but the more moderate voters may go either way if something convinces them. On the other hand, if you're a complete asshat, you just lost any valid attention from the moderates altogether.
When you look at it that way, of course the atheists weren't going to get hardcore Christians to accept them, but being assholes they caused the more moderate individuals to dismiss them as idiots, thus alienating themselves further. That does no good whatsoever.
 
2012-11-19 09:40:52 AM  

I drunk what: orbister: Perhaps religion isn't trying to stop you getting married?

or trying to stop you from stealing, lying and murdering


Religion traditionally has nothing against stealing, lying or murdering, as long as you steal from, lie to and murder the right people. Which means the wrong people. Well, the other people.

There is nothing ethical or moral about following a book of instructions, whether it's the Bible or the workshop manual for a '72 Chevy.
 
2012-11-19 09:42:12 AM  

Happy Hours:
Personally, I don't see religion as such a threat that I have to troll religious folks. I can comfortably ignore religion.


Then you haven't been paying attention to religion. I'm an atheist now, but was raised Jewish. Hell I still participate in some of the holidays, specifically the family ones. I'm all too aware of the dangers of being a minority religion.

I don't believe in trolling the religious, people only entrench themselves further when you ridicule beliefs. I won't go to their homes handing out leaflets like they do to me. I won't protest outside their churches. The sole exception to this, however, is when we're talking about the government. There should be no place for religion in government. The religious people who forget or ignore or disagree with that need to be reminded at every step of the way. If a subtly mocking spaghetti monster or Poseidon is what it takes, then good for them.
 
2012-11-19 09:42:21 AM  

mhd: liam76: Not unless they wanted to violate the 1st.

Wouldn't that just be another zoning law?


IT would be a zoning law like saying you can only have catholic churches on this street.

It wouldn't stand a constitutional challenge. Nativity scenes are a intrinsically religious symbol, the state using public land for only them crosses the line to an endorsement of religion.
 
2012-11-19 09:43:30 AM  
"Jeez, you think someone might get offended if I put up my 35x40 foot lego re=enactment of Abraham rebuilding the Kaaba in Mecca?"

"oh yeah those guys are terrorists and that's a phony religion!"

"oh well, it's Jesus and the drunks again..."

drawyourowncomic
 
2012-11-19 09:48:38 AM  
Not aware CONGRESS made a law about this, i thought they were busy with the Libiya thing.
 
2012-11-19 09:48:52 AM  

ArgusRun: There should be no place for religion in government. The religious people who forget or ignore or disagree with that need to be reminded at every step of the way. If a subtly mocking spaghetti monster or Poseidon is what it takes, then good for them.


I wonder how many of them even "got it" per se.

I live in the bible belt, and most of the very religious Christians I know have NO clue what the FSM is, and wouldn't understand the Poseidon thing as related to them at all....
No doubt a lot of the younger less religious Christians understood, but most of the hardcore Christians I encounter, regardless of locality, are older individuals whose use of the internet is mainly relegated to facebook and sending/receiving chain emails. And any young individuals that are highly religious, not just outwardly for their parents, are extremely sheltered by their parents, so they don't have free access encounter those images or comments anyway.
 
2012-11-19 09:49:37 AM  

xanadian: JackieRabbit: I suggest we stave off the broo-haa-haa by replacing the traditional nativity display with goat sacrifices and virgin de-flowerings.

Now this sounds like a party!


Yes it does, as long as the virgins voluntarily opt in. And the goats must be slow roasted over an apple-wood fire.
 
2012-11-19 09:50:58 AM  

Happy Hours: Eat More Possum: You want a religious scene up? Put it up on your own land

I'm pretty sure religious speech is covered by the First Amendment. This point was that not only can the government not impose a religion on anyone, they also cannot stop you from practicing your religion.

You militant atheists are assholes


Not sure if troll, but I'll bite. No one is stopping anyone from practicing their religion. The government can't establish a religion, and by only allowing Christian displays that is what it would be doing, so they let an atheist put up a display too and Jesus kicked the signs down. Someone doesn't like to share the holiday they stole.
 
2012-11-19 09:51:42 AM  

Happy Hours: jso2897: Maybe. I am deeply suspicious of "false flag" explanations - their track record of turning out to be true is very poor. I'm not saying it never happens, but the vast majority of the time it is just deflection.

Doesn't necessarily have to be a false flag operation. Kids vandalize stuff all the time. Every year there are thousands of garden gnomes and baby jesuses that get stolen from people's yards. I'm not really sure these are people who necessarily have a problem with garden gnomes or Jesus. They're just kids looking to mess things up. It's senseless destruction of property but nonetheless it happens.

We all remember the inflatable snowman who got stabbed in someone's front yard, don't we? Did the kids who stabbed the inflatable snowman have some sort of hatred for inflatable snowmen? Or were they just being brats on a rampage?

When I was a kid, my parents used to set up a nativity display in our front yard (our property). One year someone stole Mary and Joseph and the baby Jesus and left them in a ditch a couple of miles down the road. We didn't see that as an act of anti-Christian behavior - we viewed it as an act of senseless vandalism.

Did we not get the message? Were atheists really sending us a very clear message that my parent's display of faith was not acceptable in the neighborhood where I grew up? Should I judge all non-believers (including myself) by that senseless destruction of someone else's property?


In fact, we can speculate about his until the cows come home - and all we would be doing is speculating.
We lack the data to make any definitive evaluation. We can draw our own conclusions as to what is the most "probable" explanation - but the most probable thing isn't always what happens. We'll never know.
 
2012-11-19 09:54:45 AM  

neongoats: The atheists weren't the ones demanding exclusivity. But I'm fine with Christians using the public propery, I'm not at all fine with their "only WE get to do it!" Sense of entitlement.


Wait, really? They said that? Can you point out exactly where because I missed it.
 
2012-11-19 09:54:51 AM  
It was a terrible year. The elves were on strike so Santa had to import a boat load of illegals to finish out the season.
Ms. Clause was going through the change, there were rumblings from the reindeer about performance pay issues and the IRS wanted to know more about the deduction for "Fuel".
Suddenly an angel appeared. He was carrying a Christmas Tree, a heavenly tree it was too.
The angel asks Santa "Santa? Where would you like this years Christmas Tree?"
And THAT boys and girls is why we have an angel on the top of the christmas tree.

I gave up on religion - it's promise is un-fulfilled and primarily used to cow the populations around the world. It seeks to absolve it's followers of rational thought and allows them to denigrate others at will.

Religion? No thanks, I'm full.
 
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