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(Reuters)   Former CIA head Petraeus, who totally did nothing wrong and is totally innocent, retains Robert Barnett, lawyer to political elite   (reuters.com) divider line 99
    More: Obvious, Petraeus, CIA, innocent, human beings, Madeleine Albright, best-selling author  
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641 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Nov 2012 at 11:16 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-19 09:19:26 AM
That doesn't mean he's guilty of anything.
 
2012-11-19 09:31:15 AM
I'd lawyer up too if I had the entire republican party willing to do anything to hurt the president and would not think twice about taking me down anyway they could dream up to accomplish that.
 
2012-11-19 09:49:44 AM

sammyk: I'd lawyer up too if I had to testify anywhere under oath. the entire republican party willing to do anything to hurt the president and would not think twice about taking me down anyway they could dream up to accomplish that

 
2012-11-19 09:50:41 AM
I've never understood the 'you want a lawyer, you must be guilty' mindset. Anyone who has ever seen a single episode of Law & Order should know that the one thing you never, ever, ever do is talk to the police without a lawyer present. They'll hook you every time - because they have lawyers on their side. You should too.

That's not guilt, that's common sense.
 
2012-11-19 10:07:18 AM
I'm still fuzzy why we care who he put his penis into.
 
2012-11-19 10:13:03 AM

unlikely: I'm still fuzzy why we care who he put his penis into.


1) the head of the CIA couldn't keep it a secret
2) puts himself at risk for blackmail (could be compromised)
3) demonstrates poor judgement
4) could be breaking the rules of the UCMJ
5) bad example for staff and embarrassment to institution

Also, there is the question as to why Broadwell was given a security clearance and access to classified documents she kept at her residence. Not sure where that's at but that could be very very serious indeed.
 
2012-11-19 10:32:26 AM

unlikely: I'm still fuzzy why we care who he put his penis into.


Because his penis had access to classified documents and loose tips sink ships I guess.
 
2012-11-19 10:40:28 AM

Hershey Highway Patrol: unlikely: I'm still fuzzy why we care who he put his penis into.

Because his penis had access to classified documents and loose tips sink ships I guess.



So...he's circumsized?
 
2012-11-19 10:48:37 AM

mrshowrules: unlikely: I'm still fuzzy why we care who he put his penis into.

1) the head of the CIA couldn't keep it a secret
2) puts himself at risk for blackmail (could be compromised)
3) demonstrates poor judgement
4) could be breaking the rules of the UCMJ
5) bad example for staff and embarrassment to institution

Also, there is the question as to why Broadwell was given a security clearance and access to classified documents she kept at her residence. Not sure where that's at but that could be very very serious indeed.


1) He wasn't the leak, he was the subject of a leak. The only difference between this leak and other leaks is this one involved his penis.
2) Obviously not, given how forthcoming he was on the thing once the leak came out
3) Okay, agreed, but obviously didn't affect his ability to do his job until non-related parties freaked out
4) This matters strictly from a legal standpoint and has no bearing on his job performance - though I do believe law enforcement should be held to a higher standard of law compliance, so this one above all others actually matters to me
5) Only if he lets it be. Had his press conference on the subject been "Yup, tappin' that. Sa-WEET. Have a nice day" it would not be nearly the kerfuffle it is now.
 
2012-11-19 11:07:28 AM

unlikely: mrshowrules: unlikely: I'm still fuzzy why we care who he put his penis into.

1) the head of the CIA couldn't keep it a secret
2) puts himself at risk for blackmail (could be compromised)
3) demonstrates poor judgement
4) could be breaking the rules of the UCMJ
5) bad example for staff and embarrassment to institution

Also, there is the question as to why Broadwell was given a security clearance and access to classified documents she kept at her residence. Not sure where that's at but that could be very very serious indeed.

1) He wasn't the leak, he was the subject of a leak. The only difference between this leak and other leaks is this one involved his penis.
He was caught. Couldn't keep his secret, secret. Good spies don't caught (this goes more to lack of judgement though, see #3)

2) Obviously not, given how forthcoming he was on the thing once the leak came out
by definition it was no longer forthcoming, it was after-coming (sorry for that)

3) Okay, agreed, but obviously didn't affect his ability to do his job until non-related parties freaked out
Read the job description, I'm sure there is something about maintaining the reputation of the CIA in good standing and setting an example for his staff.

4) This matters strictly from a legal standpoint and has no bearing on his job performance - though I do believe law enforcement should be held to a higher standard of law compliance, so this one above all others actually matters to me
I think this goes towards job description also but an infraction of the UCMJ is actually the one I am least concerned for because it has the least bearing on National Security interests.

5) Only if he lets it be. Had his press conference on the subject been "Yup, tappin' that. Sa-WEET. Have a nice day" it would not be nearly the kerfuffle it is now.

True. By resigning he has actually set a very strong message to the CIA and has protected the integrity of the rules for staff. I do respect him for that.

I think General Petreaus is a hero and I respect him despite this scandal. It does not negate all he has accomplished. I was just indicating why this is a relevant news story.
 
2012-11-19 11:16:13 AM
Please leave this man alone and post links to the nude pics of Paula Broadwell.
 
2012-11-19 11:23:05 AM

wambu: Please leave this man alone and post links to the nude pics of Paula Broadwell.Jill Kelly

 
2012-11-19 11:23:20 AM

whistleridge: I've never understood the 'you want a lawyer, you must be guilty' mindset. Anyone who has ever seen a single episode of Law & Order should know that the one thing you never, ever, ever do is talk to the police without a lawyer present. They'll hook you every time - because they have lawyers on their side. You should too.

That's not guilt, that's common sense.


Subby knows this, we know that subby knows this, subby knows that we know that he knows this, so subby is just left to be the pathetic bridge-dwelling toll-collecting creature that he is.
 
2012-11-19 11:23:43 AM

whistleridge: I've never understood the 'you want a lawyer, you must be guilty' mindset. Anyone who has ever seen a single episode of Law & Order should know that the one thing you never, ever, ever do is talk to the police without a lawyer present. They'll hook you every time - because they have lawyers on their side. You should too.

That's not guilt, that's common sense.


Ignoring the idea of Law and Order as being realistic (still love me some l&O, though), that one principle is as true as shiat. Never speak to the authorities or under oath without a lawyer. I mean, MAYBE if you're a victim and you called them...and even then, only MAYBE.
 
2012-11-19 11:24:23 AM

Cletus C.: wambu: Please leave this man alone and post links to the nude pics of Paula Broadwell.Jill Kelly


Kardashian slag clone or Rachel McAdams w/ hooters? C'mon, Cletus, I know we disagree on politics, but man, you're taste in women is appalling too.
 
2012-11-19 11:24:24 AM

whistleridge: They'll hook you every time - because they have lawyers on their side.


Even better -- they have the law on their side. And there's the tendency by most juries to weigh testimony from the police more heavily than testimony from independent witnesses.
 
2012-11-19 11:25:00 AM

coeyagi: Cletus C.: wambu: Please leave this man alone and post links to the nude pics of Paula Broadwell.Jill Kelly

Kardashian slag clone or Rachel McAdams w/ hooters? C'mon, Cletus, I know we disagree on politics, but man, you'reyour taste in women is appalling too.


FTFM
 
2012-11-19 11:27:01 AM

whistleridge: I've never understood the 'you want a lawyer, you must be guilty' mindset.


I'm the same way. Exercising one's rights isn't a sign of guilt, it's a sign of intelligence.
 
2012-11-19 11:27:05 AM
Republicans get so much mileage from a evidence of hetero activity when a Democrat is President, how would the media know this is any different. No one ever got fired for digging up an old birther Benghazi story. After all the news is just filler between reality shows.

It's a slow news day: no floods in Venice, war in Gaza, fiscal cliff, euro in turmoil, devastation in the major metropolis, Rove vote hackers getting hacked.
 
2012-11-19 11:27:54 AM
Never understood the meme about innocent people getting lawyers meaning they are guilty. It seems as good a reason to lawyer up as any. Not that petraeus is innocent of anything.
 
2012-11-19 11:30:08 AM

coeyagi: coeyagi: Cletus C.: wambu: Please leave this man alone and post links to the nude pics of Paula Broadwell.Jill Kelly

Kardashian slag clone or Rachel McAdams w/ hooters? C'mon, Cletus, I know we disagree on politics, but man, you'reyour taste in women is appalling too.

FTFM


This one is like arguing over which is the sexier Olsen twin.
 
2012-11-19 11:31:47 AM

Cletus C.: coeyagi: coeyagi: Cletus C.: wambu: Please leave this man alone and post links to the nude pics of Paula Broadwell.Jill Kelly

Kardashian slag clone or Rachel McAdams w/ hooters? C'mon, Cletus, I know we disagree on politics, but man, you'reyour taste in women is appalling too.

FTFM

This one is like arguing over which is the sexier Olsen twin.


That's an easy one. Neither
 
2012-11-19 11:33:07 AM
Freaking puritanical Americans. Love it.
 
2012-11-19 11:33:12 AM
Former CIA head Petraeus, who totally did nothing wrong

Uh, subby, you do know Petraeus resigned, right? So that means he did kinda admit he did something wrong. Sorta.
 
2012-11-19 11:38:43 AM

Cletus C.: coeyagi: coeyagi: Cletus C.: wambu: Please leave this man alone and post links to the nude pics of Paula Broadwell.Jill Kelly

Kardashian slag clone or Rachel McAdams w/ hooters? C'mon, Cletus, I know we disagree on politics, but man, you'reyour taste in women is appalling too.

FTFM

This one is like arguing over which is the sexier Olsen twin.


Door #3. Elizabeth Olsen. The actually hot Olsen sister.

//Think outside the box (about box)!
 
2012-11-19 11:40:32 AM

mrshowrules: Read the job description, I'm sure there is something about maintaining the reputation of the CIA in good standing and setting an example for his staff.


How exactly do you damage the reputation of an agency whose very existence is for the purpose of sneaking around, lying, cheating, and even killing without repercussion when necessary?
 
2012-11-19 11:41:20 AM
This has been around forever, but sometimes folks need reminding.

Don't talk to the cops.
 
2012-11-19 11:43:29 AM

Anti_illuminati: Freaking puritanical Americans. Love it.


Petraeus isn't in hot water because of "puritanism" he's in hot water because he was breaking the CIA's own rules against having an affair, which are there because it leaves an officer open to blackmail, which is kind of a bad thing if you're the head of the CIA.
 
2012-11-19 11:44:09 AM

lennavan: Former CIA head Petraeus, who totally did nothing wrong

Uh, subby, you do know Petraeus resigned, right? So that means he did kinda admit he did something wrong. Sorta.


Those are some pretty ambiguous words there, len.
 
2012-11-19 11:47:01 AM

Anti_illuminati: lennavan: Former CIA head Petraeus, who totally did nothing wrong

Uh, subby, you do know Petraeus resigned, right? So that means he did kinda admit he did something wrong. Sorta.

Those are some pretty ambiguous words there, len.


Anthony Weiner did nothing wrong either. And stepping down was exactly the right thing to do. Perception is everything.
 
2012-11-19 11:52:35 AM
Romney has lawyers that means he must be guilty of a crime too right retardmitter?
 
2012-11-19 11:52:50 AM

More_Like_A_Stain: mrshowrules: Read the job description, I'm sure there is something about maintaining the reputation of the CIA in good standing and setting an example for his staff.

How exactly do you damage the reputation of an agency whose very existence is for the purpose of sneaking around, lying, cheating, and even killing without repercussion when necessary?


ensuring people know they are good at it
 
2012-11-19 11:53:40 AM

Need_MindBleach: Anti_illuminati: Freaking puritanical Americans. Love it.

Petraeus isn't in hot water because of "puritanism" he's in hot water because he was breaking the CIA's own rules against having an affair, which are there because it leaves an officer open to blackmail, which is kind of a bad thing if you're the head of the CIA.


Thanks for clearing up the fact Americans, in general, aren't puritanical.

/I'm not questioning the legitimacy of his wrongdoing (he broke the rules, so be it), just the severe outrage over subjective moral behaviour
 
2012-11-19 11:55:05 AM

coeyagi: Anti_illuminati: lennavan: Former CIA head Petraeus, who totally did nothing wrong

Uh, subby, you do know Petraeus resigned, right? So that means he did kinda admit he did something wrong. Sorta.

Those are some pretty ambiguous words there, len.

Anthony Weiner did nothing wrong either. And stepping down was exactly the right thing to do. Perception is everything.


This is why people in (most) other countries think Americans are ridiculously puritanical.
 
2012-11-19 11:55:21 AM

Krymson Tyde: That doesn't mean he's guilty of anything.


I'm one of the most boring, law-abiding individuals you'll ever meet. I'm That Guy who sets his cruise control to 2 MPH under the speed limit in the right-hand lane. In my Prius, at that. My idea of a wild Friday night is staying up past 10:30 so I can watch something after the kids have gone to bed.

I keep an attorney on retainer.
 
2012-11-19 11:59:03 AM

mrshowrules: unlikely: I'm still fuzzy why we care who he put his penis into.

1) the head of the CIA couldn't keep it a secret
2) puts himself at risk for blackmail (could be compromised)
3) demonstrates poor judgement
4) could be breaking the rules of the UCMJ
5) bad example for staff and embarrassment to institution

Also, there is the question as to why Broadwell was given a security clearance and access to classified documents she kept at her residence. Not sure where that's at but that could be very very serious indeed.


These are all very good questions, but ultimately, they do not persuade me that I should care.
 
2012-11-19 12:02:24 PM

Anti_illuminati: coeyagi: Anti_illuminati: lennavan: Former CIA head Petraeus, who totally did nothing wrong

Uh, subby, you do know Petraeus resigned, right? So that means he did kinda admit he did something wrong. Sorta.

Those are some pretty ambiguous words there, len.

Anthony Weiner did nothing wrong either. And stepping down was exactly the right thing to do. Perception is everything.

This is why people in (most) other countries think Americans are ridiculously puritanical.


Well, the intent is to stop the puritanical assholes (GOP) from causing a stink. I too could give a f*ck what he does with his dick.

So I guess we have a chicken / egg argument.
 
2012-11-19 12:04:17 PM

unlikely: I'm still fuzzy why we care who he put his penis into.


Because we want to pretend that the economy isn't going to tip into the shiatter again soon.
 
2012-11-19 12:06:14 PM

Wireless Joe: This has been around forever, but sometimes folks need reminding.

Don't talk to the cops.


I just want to add my approval of that video. I saw it linked countless times before I finally watched it (fark it's really long). But it's pretty entertaining, the guy is a great speaker. And it's amazingly informative/convincing.
 
2012-11-19 12:07:19 PM

Anti_illuminati: lennavan: Former CIA head Petraeus, who totally did nothing wrong

Uh, subby, you do know Petraeus resigned, right? So that means he did kinda admit he did something wrong. Sorta.

Those are some pretty ambiguous words there, len.


I was hoping throwing the "sorta" at the end would magnify the sarcasm behind the "kinda." My bad.
 
2012-11-19 12:10:13 PM
Innocent people who don't have good lawyers end up in jail if they are accused of things. Seems like a good idea on his part.
 
2012-11-19 12:12:52 PM

mrshowrules: the head of the CIA couldn't keep it a secret


Yeah I find it pretty hilarious that the head of the CIA was saving naughty letters to his girlfriend as drafts in a shared gmail account on the theory that is was hidden from prying eyes there.

It's also kinda funny that our spy in chief didn't know that you can trace your location using an IP address. I guess he never got one of those "Meet hot women in Kalamazoo" banner ads.

But hey, there's no law against being stupid (unless your poor).
 
2012-11-19 12:15:59 PM

lennavan: Anti_illuminati: lennavan: Former CIA head Petraeus, who totally did nothing wrong

Uh, subby, you do know Petraeus resigned, right? So that means he did kinda admit he did something wrong. Sorta.

Those are some pretty ambiguous words there, len.

I was hoping throwing the "sorta" at the end would magnify the sarcasm behind the "kinda." My bad.


I was attempting to magnify the sarcasm with a play-on-meme. Totally failed you. Bad is all mine.
 
2012-11-19 12:17:26 PM

Carth: Innocent people who don't have good lawyers end up in jail if they are accused of things. Seems like a good idea on his part.


This. In fact, I'd say innocent people need lawyers MORE than guilty people.

Guilty person gets convicted - justice done.
Guilty person gets off - this is the fail-safe part of our system that we have to accept occasionally.
Innocent person gets off - justice done.
Innocent person gets convicted - this is what we want to happen NEVER EVER EVER. And it happens when innocent people think, "Oh, I'm totes innocent, I don't need a lawyer LOL"
 
2012-11-19 12:18:47 PM

mrshowrules: unlikely: I'm still fuzzy why we care who he put his penis into.

1) the head of the CIA couldn't keep it a secret
2) puts himself at risk for blackmail (could be compromised)
3) demonstrates poor judgement
4) could be breaking the rules of the UCMJ
5) bad example for staff and embarrassment to institution

Also, there is the question as to why Broadwell was given a security clearance and access to classified documents she kept at her residence. Not sure where that's at but that could be very very serious indeed.


I think I care about precisely two of those.

Three, technically, but one of them is a tertiary care. I mean. "Keeping Secrets" is kind of the purview of the CIA. So the reveal has a Plame-ish aroma to it.

But otherwise, I've come around to the blackmail angle and the UCMJ angle. But as for poor judgment, we *ought* be able to evaluate the judgment of our country's leadership from outcomes alone. If the job is done well, then the person doing the job is DOING it well.

Being a bad example kind of... loses it's oomph for me. That sounds like something Roger Goodell would say after fining Ocho Cinco 30k for putting a poncho on after scoring a touchdown.

But I agree that the aspect of poor judgment specifically related to blackmail and more generally coercion of any sort, is a big deal. And I agree that the UCMJ should be the meter stick against which this transgression is measured.
 
2012-11-19 12:24:47 PM

unlikely: I'm still fuzzy why we care who he put his penis into.


I had a reply typed up and Fark ate it (shiatheads) so I'll just link the reason we care: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personnel_Reliability_Program
 
2012-11-19 12:30:28 PM

Gonz: Krymson Tyde: That doesn't mean he's guilty of anything.

I'm one of the most boring, law-abiding individuals you'll ever meet. I'm That Guy who sets his cruise control to 2 MPH under the speed limit in the right-hand lane. In my Prius, at that. My idea of a wild Friday night is staying up past 10:30 so I can watch something after the kids have gone to bed.

I keep an attorney on retainer.


What is a Drug Smuggler?
 
2012-11-19 12:32:18 PM
All of the problems people are listing are only problems BECAUSE we care who he puts his penis in.

If we didn't care, none of the other stuff would be an issue.
 
2012-11-19 12:33:11 PM

I_C_Weener: Hershey Highway Patrol: unlikely: I'm still fuzzy why we care who he put his penis into.

Because his penis had access to classified documents and loose tips sink ships I guess.


So...he's circumsized?


I shudder to think of a circumcision so poorly done that it leaves the tip loose.
 
2012-11-19 12:34:12 PM
Pretty sure he's been clear that he did something wrong, and has done the exact opposite of claiming innocence by admitting his mistake publicly. If memory serves, he made that clear when he resigned.

That does NOT mean he did anything illegal. And anyone who is facing criminal charges or even a civil suite would be stupid not to hire a lawyer.
 
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