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(Guardian)   Empowered by the Hostess strike, the Black Friday Walmart strike begins early   (guardian.co.uk) divider line 635
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18432 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Nov 2012 at 4:16 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-18 06:15:10 PM

Silly Jesus: but that person hasn't worked very hard to get ahead in life.


the people who worked on Henry Ford's assembly lines didn't either, yet Ford saw to it they were well paid. Indeed they were very well paid. And it helped Ford make a fark ton of money. Indeed Ford didn't pay well at first and found that it was almost impossible to make money with high turnover. So he took care of the turnover issue and promptly started swimming in money. Oh and it also allowed Ford employees to be Ford customers quite easily.
 
2012-11-18 06:15:29 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: What if you can make your employer feel enough pain to comply with your wishes?


If there are 5 of you in one retail location that receives a few hundred job applications per week, you can't. These people are undercutting themselves for nothing. Even if 100 of them walked out, they can't all get more hours. The only way to achieve that is to make yourself 100% reliable and be more productive than the people around you.

Like I said initially, strikes and walk-outs can be effective in some situations, but you can't just apply them indiscriminately and expect results. For the specific complaint of not enough hours, a walkout is bad idea número uno.
 
2012-11-18 06:15:40 PM

Gunderson: One of the downsides of paying your workers crap is that you get crap in return. Employees just flat out don't give a fark. Employee theft goes through the roof, workers call in sick often, people work while they're "Chemically Enhanced", etc. All these cost companies millions in lost revenue, productive and training expenses. On top of that, the best workers will leave at the first sign of a better opportunity, leaving the place staffed with the 'slugs'.

By just paying people a few dollars/hour more and taking care of their workers, a company can actually get a positive return on their labor investments.


Ah! So very very true.

I used to know not just one, but at least 3 different people, who worked at WAL MART who would steal anything in the store and bring it out the back for you as long as you paid them $20 to do it. They were in collusion with the also-underpaid security guards. TVs, high-end stereos, and electronics behind the glass cost you a bit more, but still were much less cheaper than actually buying them from the store. That's how my husband managed to outfit his old Camaro with the killer stereo system he had in it; also how we managed to furnish our first apartment together with all brand new items instead of having to scrounge up whatever we could find for free or second-hand.

And from what I understand, this is not an uncommon occurrence at all. I have a few good friends in other states who also know of Wal Mart employees that do similar things to supplement their Wal Mart wages.
 
2012-11-18 06:16:09 PM

deanayer: "Empowered by the Hostess strike"?? Seriously subby?? The unions drove the company into bankruptcy and now its dead, closed, out of business, gone. There is no more strike at Hostess because there is no more Hostess.


Sure, you go on believing that...
BCTGM members are well aware that as the company was preparing to file for bankruptcy earlier this year, the then CEO of Hostess was awarded a 300 percent raise (from approximately $750,000 to $2,550,000) and at least nine other top executives of the company received massive pay raises. One such executive received a pay increase from $500,000 to $900,000 and another received one taking his salary from $375,000 to $656,256.
There is just no way they could have given their employees a penny more.....
Why are their so many gullible idiots in this world?
 
2012-11-18 06:16:11 PM

WhyteRaven74: tenpoundsofcheese: so you still have nothing, got it.

so you want to argue no person has any social responsibility to any other? So I can come over and torch your house and steal your and you're cool with that? Sweeeeeet.


Wow, so now you are conflating social compact and "social responsibility" with what has been codified in laws?

Seriously?

Man, I knew you had nothing on this social compact argument, but I just assumed you would turn and hide the way you usually do rather than now trying to argue that "social responsibility" is the same thing as whether you are allowed to burn someone's house down.
 
2012-11-18 06:16:28 PM

Tourney3p0: If we just raised the minimum wage to 20 dollars an hour with mandatory 4 weeks vacation and full health insurance, there would be no more problems.


easterneurope.dow.com

Not sure if serious or just potato.
 
2012-11-18 06:17:23 PM
Wobblies unite and circle the wagons.
 
2012-11-18 06:17:57 PM

WhyteRaven74:
yeah actually it is.


Total fail. If you truly try to make the comparison, you'd fail. Where are the company towns? The credit, to that original company, to buy goods and services such that you could never quit because you were in hock to the company? That doesn't exist - at all. Where are the troops coming in to break up any strikes with violence and killing? Where are the illegal pricing practices?

The simple fact is that there are laws in place that prevent any robber barons. That doesn't mean that people can't pay low wages - but those low wages have a floor, unlike what a robber baron would do.

Face it - as much as you'd like there to be that comparison, it doesn't exist.
 
2012-11-18 06:18:03 PM

Cyclometh: deanayer: "Empowered by the Hostess strike"?? Seriously subby?? The unions drove the company into bankruptcy and now its dead, closed, out of business, gone. There is no more strike at Hostess because there is no more Hostess.

Hostess was owned by two hedge funds with a long history of liquidating and looting companies, They stopped contributing to the employee pensions but tripled the CEO's salary, and gave similar raises and bonuses to other executives.

There was never any intention of coming to an agreement. They forced the confrontation so they could walk away with a giant stack of cash and no longer be encumbered by having to actually run a business.

The Hostess shutdown was a classic looting job. The fact that they got to blame he union is just icing on the cake.



Be careful where you go with that argument, Dick Gephart and Tim Collins are big Democrats.
 
2012-11-18 06:18:30 PM
garotasperversas.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-11-18 06:19:31 PM

Silly Jesus: easterneurope.dow.com


you might want to look at Australia, they have a high minimum wage, lots of vacation leave, everyone has medical coverage and their economy is doing pretty darn well.

tenpoundsofcheese: social responsibility" is the same thing as whether you are allowed to burn someone's house down.


Well it is. That's why we have laws and courts and such for people who do burn down houses. The expectation is you don't damage someone's property and if you do, you get punished for it.
 
2012-11-18 06:19:38 PM

WhyteRaven74: Silly Jesus: Do I think you have the social responsibility to me to give me money because I have less than you? Nope.

What about a social responsibility to make sure someone working for you isn't out groveling for government benefits which in turn cost other people money?

Ed_Severson: All that matters is that these employees are complaining about something and then acting in direct opposition to the basis of their complaint,

They've been showing up for work and asking for hours that have never materialized. When plan A doesn't work, it's time for plan B.


Depends on what they are providing me. I pay them what I think that their labor is worth to me. They voluntarily agree to my assessment of the worth of their labor. Sure, it'd be nice if everyone was paid $25 / hour with 0 skills, when their labor earns you $10 / hour, but why do you think that someone is a horrible person for not deciding to spend their money in that way?
 
2012-11-18 06:21:15 PM

Tourney3p0: seapig:

Before my dad died, he was laid off from the construction crew he was working for and had to start supplementing his income by taking whatever jobs he could get; he was a "skilled" guy, too. He used to work as an engineer, .

Did he "work as an engineer", or was he an engineer? Huge difference, one that likely means the difference between employability and unemployment.


Well to be honest, I can't tell you for sure. I know he went to college on his G.I. bill; not sure what his major was, but he was with that company from the time I was born til I was about 10. I remember having to go to his office a few times and him showing us the work he was doing in Auto CAD; a lot of it looked like blue prints to me at the time. And I was more interested in the office fish tank than what he was trying to show us. He died when I was 16, but to be perfectly honest, I didn't ask my dad much about his life because I was too busy being a teenager, getting high and hanging out with my friends. Had I known how little time I had left with him, I would have bothered to learn more...
 
2012-11-18 06:21:19 PM

RanDomino: jshine
Maybe its the labor market saying "there are too many workers"?

Well let's just get rid of a few million of them, right?

Or maybe the problem isn't the number of workers, but the fact that most of the gains in productivity over the past several decades have been taken as profit by the business-owning class, rather than used to actually benefit humanity.

Capitalism- what other system can actually have a "crisis of overproduction"? That's right! Everyone's homeless and starving because we're TOO PRODUCTIVE! (and so the market is saturated and it's hard for investors/owners/managers to get returns by increasing sales, so they start cutting costs- wages and employment- to keep quarterly profits going up) Who still thinks this is a good idea, ffs??


Okay. Read it three times trying to really grasp what you are trying to say. Allow me...

1 - "Capitalism- what other system..."
You think that America is a Capitalist country? Not even close.

2 - "Everyone's homeless and starving because..."
Nobody is starving. You say everybody is starving, but I don't know even one person who has starved to death in my life. Please return to reality. You are smarter than this. Prove it. Please.

3 - "Who still thinks this is a good idea..." Well, okay, nobody thinks that this is a good system. Wal*Mart did not invent this economy or the rules of business in our system; they just do what they can to make money. Making money is what business try to do. Wal*Mart is just better at it than most companies.

Well, to be honest, I'd like for you to lay out for us a better system. I'm sure you have one in mind. Since you cannot distiguish capitalism from fascism, I am hopeful that you do grasp the basic concepts of whatever system you find better. If it is a system already practiced in the world, please indicate which countries. If you want extra points, please reference the conceptual founders and moral implications of your better system. I really hope you come thru with this. The system we have now is a mess. Help us out here, please.
img836.imageshack.us
 
2012-11-18 06:21:55 PM

ronaprhys: Where are the company towns?


Most robber barons didn't have company towns. And using violence to fight strikers was also not that common, indeed when it did happen it caused just a dust up that those running the companies found themselves in worse shape with the public.
 
2012-11-18 06:22:35 PM

Wrencher: deanayer: "Empowered by the Hostess strike"?? Seriously subby?? The unions drove the company into bankruptcy and now its dead, closed, out of business, gone. There is no more strike at Hostess because there is no more Hostess.

Sure, you go on believing that...
BCTGM members are well aware that as the company was preparing to file for bankruptcy earlier this year, the then CEO of Hostess was awarded a 300 percent raise (from approximately $750,000 to $2,550,000) and at least nine other top executives of the company received massive pay raises. One such executive received a pay increase from $500,000 to $900,000 and another received one taking his salary from $375,000 to $656,256.
There is just no way they could have given their employees a penny more.....
Why are their so many gullible idiots in this world?


You saw them voting for Romney. There is a feakin' army of the idiots.
You sound suprised.
Welcome to Corporate Raiders R Us v. 2012.
Hell, the GOP sold Florida to Rick Scott.
Step up and putcher money(BIG MONEY) down!
 
2012-11-18 06:23:26 PM

Ed_Severson: If there are 5 of you in one retail location that receives a few hundred job applications per week, you can't


Agreed.

Ed_Severson: These people are undercutting themselves for nothing. Even if 100 of them walked out, they can't all get more hours.


Probably.

Ed_Severson: The only way to achieve that is to make yourself 100% reliable and be more productive than the people around you.


Hold your horses. First of all, making yourself 100% reliable and more productive does not guarantee that you will get more hours. More fundamentally, that attitude has a poisonous "my coworkers are my enemies" undercurrent that I can't support.

Furthermore, that is not the only way. You're right about small-scale actions being ineffective against a behemoth like Wal-Mart. But toadyism is not the only way to secure decent hours (or any other concession). I think that Wal-Mart is susceptible to large scale activist operations.

Ed_Severson: Like I said initially, strikes and walk-outs can be effective in some situations, but you can't just apply them indiscriminately and expect results.


I can agree with that first sentence, but I don't think a work stoppage timed to coincide with the busiest shoppind day of the year qualifies as indiscriminate.
 
2012-11-18 06:23:42 PM

WhyteRaven74: Silly Jesus: but that person hasn't worked very hard to get ahead in life.

the people who worked on Henry Ford's assembly lines didn't either, yet Ford saw to it they were well paid. Indeed they were very well paid. And it helped Ford make a fark ton of money. Indeed Ford didn't pay well at first and found that it was almost impossible to make money with high turnover. So he took care of the turnover issue and promptly started swimming in money. Oh and it also allowed Ford employees to be Ford customers quite easily.


I'm all for employers following that model. I currently have an employer like that (having worked for ones more similar to the WalMart mentality previously) and my wife recently made the same kind of change. What I disagree with is the assessment of those that don't choose the Ford model as "robber barons" or "evil" etc. They choose to run their business that way. The labor is voluntary. People are suggesting that CEO's be imprisoned for "treating employees badly" etc. I think that's ludicrous.
 
2012-11-18 06:24:06 PM

WhyteRaven74: They've been showing up for work and asking for hours that have never materialized. When plan A doesn't work, it's time for plan B.


Nothing in the article indicates that even one of them has either been promised more hours without actually getting them or been sent home from a scheduled shift.

They may all want 40 hours per week but they can't all have 40 hours per week. That's a reality of retail employment. There will always be more potential labor hours in the workforce than there are budgeted labor hours; otherwise the people who write the schedules have no flexibility to deal with sick days, vacations, and no-call/no-shows.
 
2012-11-18 06:24:32 PM

whistleridge: tbhouston: People choose to work at Walmart for what ever reason..no one is forcing them...

Have you ever been to some towns in flyover country? You know, the ones where there used to be 20 - 30 businesses downtown, and now there's a Wal-Mart on the edge of the bunch of shuttered buildings that used to be downtown? Where do you think the folks that worked in those businesses went? Where else would they go?

Wal-Mart is flat-out exploitative, and if you think otherwise, you're dreaming.


When they started referring to Walmart's successes as a gauge of the USA's success I knew the country was doomed.
 
2012-11-18 06:24:42 PM
What the fark is wrong with the people that shop there?

media.peopleofwalmart.com
 
2012-11-18 06:26:13 PM

EVERYBODY PANIC: RanDomino: jshine
Maybe its the labor market saying "there are too many workers"?

Well let's just get rid of a few million of them, right?

Or maybe the problem isn't the number of workers, but the fact that most of the gains in productivity over the past several decades have been taken as profit by the business-owning class, rather than used to actually benefit humanity.

Capitalism- what other system can actually have a "crisis of overproduction"? That's right! Everyone's homeless and starving because we're TOO PRODUCTIVE! (and so the market is saturated and it's hard for investors/owners/managers to get returns by increasing sales, so they start cutting costs- wages and employment- to keep quarterly profits going up) Who still thinks this is a good idea, ffs??

Okay. Read it three times trying to really grasp what you are trying to say. Allow me...

1 - "Capitalism- what other system..."
You think that America is a Capitalist country? Not even close.

2 - "Everyone's homeless and starving because..."
Nobody is starving. You say everybody is starving, but I don't know even one person who has starved to death in my life. Please return to reality. You are smarter than this. Prove it. Please.

3 - "Who still thinks this is a good idea..." Well, okay, nobody thinks that this is a good system. Wal*Mart did not invent this economy or the rules of business in our system; they just do what they can to make money. Making money is what business try to do. Wal*Mart is just better at it than most companies.

Well, to be honest, I'd like for you to lay out for us a better system. I'm sure you have one in mind. Since you cannot distiguish capitalism from fascism, I am hopeful that you do grasp the basic concepts of whatever system you find better. If it is a system already practiced in the world, please indicate which countries. If you want extra points, please reference the conceptual founders and moral implications of your better system. I really hope you come thru with ...


Such pretty words, Fascism, Captialism, fictictious boogeymen used to derp the derpable.
Call a crooked game any damned thing you want, Republic and Democracy , Free Market, they all play good.

Doods, it is gone, start over.
 
2012-11-18 06:27:02 PM

jst3p: This coupled with "lots of people are dumb".


Desperate, and without food security, are the more PC terms.
 
2012-11-18 06:27:07 PM

WhyteRaven74: Silly Jesus: easterneurope.dow.com

you might want to look at Australia, they have a high minimum wage, lots of vacation leave, everyone has medical coverage and their economy is doing pretty darn well.

tenpoundsofcheese: social responsibility" is the same thing as whether you are allowed to burn someone's house down.

Well it is. That's why we have laws and courts and such for people who do burn down houses. The expectation is you don't damage someone's property and if you do, you get punished for it.


Why is your anecdotal evidence better than mine?
 
2012-11-18 06:28:44 PM

DrewCurtisJr: jst3p: This coupled with "lots of people are dumb".

Desperate, and without food security, are the more PC terms.


I say tomato, Wal-mart employee says "Hey, you gonna finish that tomato?"
 
2012-11-18 06:29:29 PM

Waldo Pepper: tbhouston: People choose to work at Walmart for what ever reason..no one is forcing them...

which means since you choose to live in this country you have no right to protest any of the laws


Oh come on Waldo. Total disconnect. You can do better than this. I've seen it. Why, I can come up with multiple come-backs for this with little effort, but mine would be on topic and make sense. If you need help conceptualizing something slever or funny, just ask. You can pretend you wrote it.
 
2012-11-18 06:30:18 PM

Bontesla: tbhouston: People choose to work at Walmart for what ever reason..no one is forcing them...

Everyone who works at Walmart really must love their job then, right?


I didn't realize "loving' a job was a requirement of working there.
 
2012-11-18 06:31:08 PM

Silly Jesus: Why is your anecdotal evidence better than mine?


Because yours had nothing to do with minimum wage, vacation leave or anything else relevant to the current discussion.
 
2012-11-18 06:33:06 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: First of all, making yourself 100% reliable and more productive does not guarantee that you will get more hours.


Never said it guarantees you anything. All I said was that not doing it guarantees you won't get what you want.

I don't think a work stoppage timed to coincide with the busiest shoppind day of the year qualifies as indiscriminate.

No, but a 5-man walkout to express your frustration over not working enough certainly is.

People should think before they act. The message you send when you walk out on a shift is that you can live without that 8 hours of pay. I hope they're not surprised when they find out the company has adopted their attitude about that 8 hours of pay, but they probably will be.
 
2012-11-18 06:34:13 PM

cmackchase: To those asking why that sara gilbert girl is making only 14k as a "manager" at walmart. I will explain, She is a part time employee. CSM's are not real managers, they are glorified cashier babysitters with the option of keyturn overrides.


FTFA:
Seattle Walmart worker Sara Gilbert said she had taken the decision to go on strike to protest the fact that she could only make around $14,000 dollars a year. Despite working as a customer service manager, she said, her family remained reliant on food stamps and other benefits. "I work full time at the richest company in the world," she said.

Still, I'm missing something here. Full time, earning $14,000 a year. That's like $7 an hour.
 
2012-11-18 06:34:39 PM

Great Janitor: WhyteRaven74: coffee smells good: FIFY

Or Apple, or plenty of other companies. I just went with Papa John's cause they've been in the news the last week

Great Janitor: There is no reason why these Walmart employees who are complaining about low hours each week can't be spending their down time bettering themselves with added skills, education, what ever

and how exactly should they pay for that?

Because going to the library costs money?


As you can see here, sir, I have over 10 years of experience going to the library on my resume...
 
2012-11-18 06:35:27 PM

jst3p: I say tomato, Wal-mart employee says "Hey, you gonna finish that tomato?"


Walmart employees don't look they eat a lot of fruit, unless it is in pie form or in the center of a donut.
 
2012-11-18 06:37:18 PM

DrewCurtisJr: jst3p: I say tomato, Wal-mart employee says "Hey, you gonna finish that tomato?"

Walmart employees don't look they eat a lot of fruit, unless it is in pie form or in the center of a donut.


Why is it that Target employees are far more likely to be a cute chick than Wal-mart cashiers?
 
2012-11-18 06:38:12 PM
What caught my eye was the warehouse trouble.
These are Walmart's regional distribution centers.
It appears that in union states, Walmart uses temp service agencies to staff these places with people who work very low wage, no-benefit paying jobs.
In non-union states, these distribution center jobs are relatively well paid, full-benefits jobs. Like $16/hour to start with benefits and regular raises thereafter.

Funny how that works.
 
2012-11-18 06:38:36 PM
If corporations are only obligated to serve the shareholders, how can we blame employees for wanting to be obligated to themselves? Management is essentially collective bargaining for the shareholders, employees should be able to team up bargain for themselves.
 
2012-11-18 06:40:11 PM

jst3p: DrewCurtisJr: jst3p: I say tomato, Wal-mart employee says "Hey, you gonna finish that tomato?"

Walmart employees don't look they eat a lot of fruit, unless it is in pie form or in the center of a donut.

Why is it that Target employees are far more likely to be a cute chick than Wal-mart cashiers?

 
2012-11-18 06:40:41 PM

GranoblasticMan: As you can see here, sir, I have over 10 years of experience going to the library on my resume...


Worked for Marx.
 
2012-11-18 06:40:47 PM

tbhouston: People choose to work at Walmart for what ever reason..no one is forcing them...


No one was forced to live in East Germany. They could have moved to the other side of Berlin in 1944.
 
2012-11-18 06:40:48 PM

grossmont: Still, I'm missing something here. Full time, earning $14,000 a year. That's like $7 an hour.


Federal minimum wage is $7.25/hour. For 52 weeks at 40 hours per week, that's $15080 annually.

I'm not sure about Wal-Mart but it's common practice now in retail that 32 hours per week is full-time. Factor that into the same annual take-home and her hourly wage would be $9.06. In all likelihood she makes about $9.00/hour, works around 35 hours per week, and nets about $14000 after taxes, etc.
 
2012-11-18 06:42:34 PM

jst3p: DrewCurtisJr: jst3p: I say tomato, Wal-mart employee says "Hey, you gonna finish that tomato?"

Walmart employees don't look they eat a lot of fruit, unless it is in pie form or in the center of a donut.

Why is it that Target employees are far more likely to be a cute chick than Wal-mart cashiers?


Weird, but true. Kinda. Of the 3 Targets within a half hour drive of my house, one is staffed by ghetto/rednecks, but the other two are prime teenage/early 20's white suburban awesomness.
 
2012-11-18 06:42:45 PM

WhyteRaven74: Silly Jesus: Do I think you have the social responsibility to me to give me money because I have less than you? Nope.

What about a social responsibility to make sure someone working for you isn't out groveling for government benefits which in turn cost other people money?

Ed_Severson: All that matters is that these employees are complaining about something and then acting in direct opposition to the basis of their complaint,

They've been showing up for work and asking for hours that have never materialized. When plan A doesn't work, it's time for plan B.


And by plan B, I assume you mean take their skillset to another employer that does have a need for this skillset and offer more than minimum wage? Or did you mean Plan B where they wave those tiny fists in the air as they watch their jobs hired out to someone else who finds the terms of employment to be acceptable.

The problem is: until there is noone else out there willing to step into your shoes, your employer holds all the cards. Unless you have a needed skillset, you are pretty much screwed. That's the only thing one should expect out of a minimum wage job- you learn the skillset in which you are paid for. You want to increase the pay, you need to move on, adopting more skillsets along the way. Eventually you build a portfolio of different skill sets (rather than hopping from one cashier job to the next) that you can approach an employer with and be able to nogotiate a more acceptable wage as you now have more to offer.

I have been employed 15 years with the same company. I make a point of attending advanced and service classes at least twice a year or as the are offered. I'm probably underpaid as my aquired skillset is greater than my required skillset, however I give up those few dollars in wages for an exchange of secure employment. Should I be forced to move on, I have no doubts about having the skills required to fill a similar position. At that time I would probably be in a position to ask for more than i am currently making.

Lesson learned: minimum wage jobs are just that- minimum. Use them as stepping stones aquiring needed set skills along the way- mini tech classes as it were-- and use those aquired skills as collateral when bargaining for a better job. I learned to dig holes and trenches with one landscape company. I learned the plant names and reading plans with another company. Installing irrigation plumbing with yet another. Eventually was able negotiate a position as foreman using all I had learned from my other series of minimum paying jobs for a short stint (not a huge demand during the winter months). Done in less then two years.
 
2012-11-18 06:42:52 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: GranoblasticMan: As you can see here, sir, I have over 10 years of experience going to the library on my resume...

Worked for Marx.


He had a good run.

991.com
 
2012-11-18 06:42:56 PM

Spirit Hammer: and $14 an hour.

I seriously doubt that the person in the article is making only $14,000 a year full time.
Minimum wage (what floor associates start at) is over $18,000 full time.


Very few employees work 40 hrs a week at a Walmart. Very very few.
 
2012-11-18 06:43:45 PM

Ed_Severson: I'm not sure about Wal-Mart but it's common practice now in retail that 32 hours per week is full-time. Factor that into the same annual take-home and her hourly wage would be $9.06. In all likelihood she makes about $9.00/hour, works around 35 hours per week, and nets about $14000 after taxes, etc.


If she has a family she's probably not paying anything in taxes at that income.
 
2012-11-18 06:44:38 PM

Wrencher: deanayer: "Empowered by the Hostess strike"?? Seriously subby?? The unions drove the company into bankruptcy and now its dead, closed, out of business, gone. There is no more strike at Hostess because there is no more Hostess.

Sure, you go on believing that...
BCTGM members are well aware that as the company was preparing to file for bankruptcy earlier this year, the then CEO of Hostess was awarded a 300 percent raise (from approximately $750,000 to $2,550,000) and at least nine other top executives of the company received massive pay raises. One such executive received a pay increase from $500,000 to $900,000 and another received one taking his salary from $375,000 to $656,256.
There is just no way they could have given their employees a penny more.....
Why are their so many gullible idiots in this world?


In fairness, as true as this might be, those outrageous executive salaries are generally a drop in the bucket compared to the company's total numbers. This seems like one of those cases.

"a few executives got outrageous salaries they clearly did not deserve given the company's situation" != "the company could have afforded to pay 8,000 employees much more"

Hostess was making products people weren't buying. Sales were down and had been suffering for thirty years, the trend is away from crap processed junk food, and that market that is increasingly catering to consumers who don't have much money to spend. Executives sucking the last breath out of the dying company for themselves is reprehensible, but it was still the company's dying breath.

The union was misguided, too, though I wouldn't say they killed it. It's just unsurprising that a company that made a product people didn't really want wasn't going to keep paying solid wages.
 
2012-11-18 06:45:07 PM

DrewCurtisJr: Ed_Severson: I'm not sure about Wal-Mart but it's common practice now in retail that 32 hours per week is full-time. Factor that into the same annual take-home and her hourly wage would be $9.06. In all likelihood she makes about $9.00/hour, works around 35 hours per week, and nets about $14000 after taxes, etc.

If she has a family she's probably not paying anything in taxes at that income.


They withhold and she gets it back in Feb, and then some.
 
2012-11-18 06:45:21 PM
static.themetapicture.com
 
2012-11-18 06:46:53 PM

Spirit Hammer: I don't shop a walmart, and I don't have a dog in this fight.
But I wanted to make a couple of observations.

Do people seriously believe that the purpose of a company is to "Better Humanity"?
That may be what you formed YOUR company to do, but it isn't what most others were formed for.

According to the google (various. I won't link them, but you can do your own search) Customer Service Managers make between $12 and $14 an hour.

I seriously doubt that the person in the article is making only $14,000 a year full time.
Minimum wage (what floor associates start at) is over $18,000 full time.


It sure took a lot of reading before I found someone who caught that glaring math error.

$14k/yr full time is well below minimum wage. Her story doesn't add up.
 
2012-11-18 06:47:05 PM

Silly Jesus: [static.themetapicture.com image 1x1]


Period?
 
2012-11-18 06:47:14 PM

WhyteRaven74: Silly Jesus: Do I think you have the social responsibility to me to give me money because I have less than you? Nope.

What about a social responsibility to make sure someone working for you isn't out groveling for government benefits which in turn cost other people money?


I'm not following.
Do you think companies hire people to give them jobs?
Or do they identify tasks/jobs to be performed, decide what that work is worth to the company, and offer the jobs to anyone who agrees with the pay?
 
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