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(Guardian)   Empowered by the Hostess strike, the Black Friday Walmart strike begins early   (guardian.co.uk) divider line 635
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18436 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Nov 2012 at 4:16 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-18 05:40:53 PM  

jst3p: There is no universal standard when it comes to "full time" employee, the company gets to define it.


Actually federal law does define it as 40 hours, however it can be defined as fewer hours. Though that big of wiggle room really should be done away with.

Ed_Severson: "Zero sounds fine. Best of luck to you ... I'm going to go have a look through the 300 applications on my desk now. Don't forget to clean out your locker."


and thanks to the turnover the company is going to have to spend more money. If Walmart treated their employees well, their turnover would be lower and they'd be making more money.

Silly Jesus: They need the government to take care of them and the charity of CEO's.


BTW Walmart's employment practices cost tax payers hundreds of millions of dollars.
 
2012-11-18 05:41:10 PM  

Great Janitor: I honestly don't get this. My first two jobs were retail jobs. I hated it. Hours sucked, pay was minimum wage, hated dealing with idiot and rude customers, got pissed everytime I came in on my day off to work a special project for the boss (building shelves in the stock room or swapping out seasonal merchandise from the holiday that just ended to the new one, or just expanding the christmas section) and the boss took credit for all of it when the DM commented to him how great that area looked. I decided that if anything was going to get better in my life, it had to be me who made the change. I could either biatch and moan to my managers until they caved into my demands or I could better myself. I did. I took a series of entry level jobs that offered to train anyone and learned a variety of skills. Went to college, got a degree that was designed to better my job prospects. Even learned how to sell swimming pools, cars and insurance. When you learn how to sell your income is unlimited. As opposed to working hourly where your income is limited to the number of hours you work.

I realized that while I could change where I worked, the place where I worked and those I worked for aren't fixed. I could in theory make the retail chain I worked for the best place to ever work with great hours and above average pay, but when it comes to jobs your boss can give you two words and you're gone (You're fired, good bye, get out). And if management changes, that great deal I worked out could die or come back to bite me in the ass. I make myself better and no manager or job can change that.

Today I am in a position where I don't have to work at a minimum wage job. My last job interview had the boss explaining to me how in one week I could earn $5,000 commission with residuals for life selling to one person. There is no reason why these Walmart employees who are complaining about low hours each week can't be spending their down time bettering themselves with added skil ...


Guess what, asshole? Not everyone is a skilled liar, which is the basic skill set for a sales job.
 
2012-11-18 05:41:37 PM  

IlGreven: I'm guessing Wal-Mart does not use the meritocracy model the supermarket you worked at does. Otherwise, the workers would be happy rather than pissed off.


Of course they do. When you have 500 labor hours to spend per week and you have 25 employees who all want 40 hours, supply is low and demand is high. The hours will go to the most reliable employees, and whatever's left over will be distributed among the rest.

And if you think a retail establishment ever existed where everyone was happy ... Oh boy, would you be disappointed.
 
2012-11-18 05:41:45 PM  

XveryYpettyZ: tenpoundsofcheese: XveryYpettyZ: The central story of the United States is the idea that if you work hard, sacrifice, delay gratification, save and live frugally, in the end you will get ahead and your children will have an opportunity at a better life. Wal Mart, and other stores of their ilk, make a mockery of that ideal by having full-time employees still on public assistance. What is popularly railed-against as lazy people taking advantage of the system is often more a form of corporate welfare than one that benefits the individuals collecting the checks/food stamps/WIC vouchers, etc.

You are completely wrong about the central story of the US

It isn't that you WILL get ahead it is that you have the opportunity to get ahead


The central story is not one of entitlement and guarantees

Wanna know how I can tell you're an asshole
wanna know how I can tell that you can't read??

It isn't entitlement to say if you work hard and you save and you live frugally you deserve to get ahead.

I never said someone like that doesn't DESERVE to get ahead. I said that the premise that they WILL get ahead is wrong. "WILL" implies a guarantee. There are no guarantees, even for people who deserve to get ahead.


That's the goddamn social compact we entered into.

Oh please, where is the social compact? Details? When does a person enter into it? How?

The fact that you can disagree with that as sounding "entitled" is a sign of how far the Republican party has fallen.

blah, blah, blah. Saying someone WILL get something is an entitlement.

 
2012-11-18 05:42:39 PM  

andrewagill: FarkerSnow: Strikers deserve the hero tag.



Indeed.


As it was submitted.
/not sure what happened
 
2012-11-18 05:42:49 PM  

DrPainMD: PS. Retail has ALWAYS been a minimum wage job.


no it hasn't and even today there are retailers that don't play min wage or very close to it. Costco doesn't pay min wage.

ronaprhys: Not even close.


yeah actually it is.
 
2012-11-18 05:43:19 PM  

WhyteRaven74: jst3p: There is no universal standard when it comes to "full time" employee, the company gets to define it.

Actually federal law does define it as 40 hours, however it can be defined as fewer hours. Though that big of wiggle room really should be done away with.

Ed_Severson: "Zero sounds fine. Best of luck to you ... I'm going to go have a look through the 300 applications on my desk now. Don't forget to clean out your locker."

and thanks to the turnover the company is going to have to spend more money. If Walmart treated their employees well, their turnover would be lower and they'd be making more money.

Silly Jesus: They need the government to take care of them and the charity of CEO's.

BTW Walmart's employment practices cost tax payers hundreds of millions of dollars.


They are the kind of people that would be 100% on the government teat if not for WalMart. I see it as WalMart subsidizing Obamabucks rather than the other way around.
 
2012-11-18 05:43:30 PM  

WhyteRaven74: ronaprhys: Nothing. What year did you fail history in?

While we may not call them robber barons we have plenty of people acting like them, see Papa John's.


If it weren't for the "robber barons," you wouldn't have cheap energy, free libraries, and most of what gives you one of the highest standards of living the human race has ever seen. But, go ahead and complain about them... it's edgy and in fashion, and your peers will consider you to be an intellectual.
 
2012-11-18 05:43:33 PM  
And so the 47% becomes 48%.
 
2012-11-18 05:44:11 PM  

DrPainMD: 12349876: Great Janitor: There is no reason why these Walmart employees who are complaining about low hours each week can't be spending their down time bettering themselves with added skills, education, what ever.

If everyone did this those who did it the least would still be stuck working at Wal Mart where people who refuse to better themselves belong.

FTFY

Also, it's already happening. Lots of successful people worked at Walmart earlier in their lives. The ones who went home and watched TV every night are the ones still working there.


I'm talking philosophically here. There will always be people at the bottom of the rung who are stuck at Wal Mart type jobs. Bottom of the rung used to be dropping out in the middle school, then high school, now it's a high school graduate and may in a few decades be a bachelor's degree and no matter how high it gets, there will be those at the bottom and there's not enough white collar jobs for them.
 
2012-11-18 05:44:19 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Oh please, where is the social compact? Details? When does a person enter into it? How?


living as a member of society
 
2012-11-18 05:44:31 PM  

deanayer: "Empowered by the Hostess strike"?? Seriously subby?? The unions drove the company into bankruptcy and now its dead, closed, out of business, gone. There is no more strike at Hostess because there is no more Hostess.


Hostess was owned by two hedge funds with a long history of liquidating and looting companies, They stopped contributing to the employee pensions but tripled the CEO's salary, and gave similar raises and bonuses to other executives.

There was never any intention of coming to an agreement. They forced the confrontation so they could walk away with a giant stack of cash and no longer be encumbered by having to actually run a business.

The Hostess shutdown was a classic looting job. The fact that they got to blame he union is just icing on the cake.
 
2012-11-18 05:44:31 PM  
The chick in the article is a damn liar. If she was working full time and only bringing in $14,000 a year, that would mean she was working for around $6.73 an hour. We know as a matter of fact that can't be the case.
 
2012-11-18 05:45:28 PM  

DrPainMD: WhyteRaven74: ronaprhys: Nothing. What year did you fail history in?

While we may not call them robber barons we have plenty of people acting like them, see Papa John's.

If it weren't for the "robber barons," you wouldn't have cheap energy, free libraries, and most of what gives you one of the highest standards of living the human race has ever seen. But, go ahead and complain about them... it's edgy and in fashion, and your peers will consider you to be an intellectual.


gifrific.com
 
2012-11-18 05:45:41 PM  
Wal Mart has refused to let the employees unionize for quite some time, this is nothing new. Doesn't anyone remember that documentary they did on Wal Mart a few years back? With all the former managers and employees speaking out about their shady business practices and the threats of firing those who even began to SPEAK of forming a union?

I don't get how so many people can sit here and say "oh well they should just find a better job"...a lot of the people who worl at Wal Mart simply can't! I know a lot of the people who work at my local Wal Mart do so because it's in a mall where one of the few running buses continues to travel. And when you are an "unskilled" laborer, there aren't too many options available. A lot of these people are simply working the only job they are a) qualified for and b) able to actually get.

I feel sorry for the people who are too scared to protest and walk out; the ones who know that they can't even take the risk doing so, even though it would be a tremendous benefit for them to do so, because if they do, they're afraid they will lose their job and will be unable to provide for their families.
 
2012-11-18 05:46:46 PM  

DrPainMD: it weren't for the "robber barons," you wouldn't have cheap energy, free libraries, and most of what gives you one of the highest standards of living the human race has ever seen.


you're not even smart enough to realize what you're defending.

Silly Jesus: They are the kind of people that would be 100% on the government teat if not for WalMart. I


they wouldn't be, and if Walmart actually took care of their employees they wouldn't need government benefits at all.
 
2012-11-18 05:47:02 PM  

IlGreven: BarkingUnicorn: that bosnian sniper: IlGreven: ...when it gets to the point that you'd rather starve than work at Wal-Mart, they lose the leverage.

Hey, people at Foxconn got to the point they'd rather jump out of windows than work there, and you saw what that got the workers...

Yeah: safety nets.

Which is, ironically, more than what workers at Wal-Mart are getting.


My sly point is that many Walmart employees get public assistance - the "safety net" in order to survive.

You'd think that boostrappy types would tire of Walmart bolstering its profits at taxpayers' expense.
 
2012-11-18 05:47:50 PM  

Bontesla: tbhouston: People choose to work at Walmart for what ever reason..no one is forcing them...

Everyone who works at Walmart really must love their job then, right?


So if you don't love your job, you should strike. Sounds logical... For a liberal.
 
2012-11-18 05:47:59 PM  

DrPainMD: coco ebert: tbhouston: People choose to work at Walmart for what ever reason..no one is forcing them...

As someone who studies labor markets, I can say that there really aren't that many options for "unskilled" or "low-skilled" jobs in this economy. Retailers have largely followed Wal-mart's lead and have increasingly relied on low-wage, part-time work that offers next to zero benefits. Simply telling workers, "oh well it's your fault you don't have a better job" is lazy and not grounded in empirical reality.

PS. Retail has ALWAYS been a minimum wage job.


I worked for 5 years at Radio Shack, I made well over minimum wage. I worked at Egghead Software for a few years (it used to be a thing) and made more than minimum wage. My ex wife works retail today (not in management) and she makes $11 an hour last I heard.

In Colorado the minimum wage is $7.63. If someone making minimum wage were to work 40 hours a week that puts the salary at $15,870.

Salary.com puts the average salary of a Retail "Sales Staff - Full Time" at almost $29k in Longmont Colorado.

In short, you don't know what you are talking about and should spend a couple minutes on google before posting things on the internet that make you look like an ignorant, misinformed, idiot.
 
2012-11-18 05:48:00 PM  

DrPainMD: WhyteRaven74: ronaprhys: Nothing. What year did you fail history in?

While we may not call them robber barons we have plenty of people acting like them, see Papa John's.

If it weren't for the "robber barons," you wouldn't have cheap energy, free libraries, and most of what gives you one of the highest standards of living the human race has ever seen. But, go ahead and complain about them... it's edgy and in fashion, and your peers will consider you to be an intellectual.


"Let's focus on that nice dinner we had instead of the rape" eh?
 
2012-11-18 05:48:24 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: The chick in the article is a damn liar. If she was working full time and only bringing in $14,000 a year, that would mean she was working for around $6.73 an hour. We know as a matter of fact that can't be the case.


Depends on how you define full time, walmart may not define it as 40 hours for her position.
 
2012-11-18 05:49:07 PM  
Those of you folks who don't care to hear about anecdotal stories about how WM has badly treated local economies, well, those stories nonetheless represent REAL situations for REAL people. I won't go into detail but I've seen first-hand how local mom-n-pop stores in small towns have been eradicated by the arrival of a WM. And it's not like the people who live in small towns have a choice when it comes to what they are forced to deal with. WM takes advantage of small economies to the detriment of those local populations and that's a fact.
 
2012-11-18 05:49:32 PM  

tjfly: So if you don't love your job, you should strike. Sounds logical... For a liberal.


if you're being treated badly at your job, yes you should stand up for yourself.
 
2012-11-18 05:49:34 PM  

WhyteRaven74: jst3p: There is no universal standard when it comes to "full time" employee, the company gets to define it.

Actually federal law does define it as 40 hours, however it can be defined as fewer hours. Though that big of wiggle room really should be done away with.




The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) does not define full-time employment or part-time employment. This is a matter generally to be determined by the employer. Whether an employee is considered full-time or part-time does not change the application of the FLSA, nor does it affect application of the Service Contract Act or Davis-Bacon and Related Acts wage and fringe benefit requirements.

Link
 
2012-11-18 05:49:41 PM  

DrPainMD: WhyteRaven74: ronaprhys: Nothing. What year did you fail history in?

While we may not call them robber barons we have plenty of people acting like them, see Papa John's.

If it weren't for the "robber barons," you wouldn't have cheap energy, free libraries, and most of what gives you one of the highest standards of living the human race has ever seen. But, go ahead and complain about them... it's edgy and in fashion, and your peers will consider you to be an intellectual.


Not sure why anybody would white knight for robber barons. The term itself is pejorative and implies their practices were unethical. Also, they well never sleep with you.
 
2012-11-18 05:50:05 PM  

DrPainMD: coco ebert: tbhouston: People choose to work at Walmart for what ever reason..no one is forcing them...

As someone who studies labor markets, I can say that there really aren't that many options for "unskilled" or "low-skilled" jobs in this economy. Retailers have largely followed Wal-mart's lead and have increasingly relied on low-wage, part-time work that offers next to zero benefits. Simply telling workers, "oh well it's your fault you don't have a better job" is lazy and not grounded in empirical reality.

PS. Retail has ALWAYS been a minimum wage job.


It doesn't have to be and it wasn't always so. In my hubby's native Switzerland, people who work in retails are trained in their jobs and know their sh*t. They're also paid a decent wage and have good benefits. And actually, having read the history of retail in America, companies used to train their employees as well in the profession. We don't do that anymore. It doesn't have to be this way.
 
2012-11-18 05:50:19 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: The chick in the article is a damn liar. If she was working full time and only bringing in $14,000 a year, that would mean she was working for around $6.73 an hour. We know as a matter of fact that can't be the case.


It is entirely possible if Wal-Mart defines full time employment at 32 hours.
 
2012-11-18 05:50:23 PM  

mbillips: EVERYBODY PANIC: vartian: tbhouston: People choose to work at Walmart for what ever reason..no one is forcing them...

Yeah, because people who work at Walmart have all these options just laid out in front of them.

Hey, if working for Wal*Mart is the best that these folks can do...

1 - I sorta feel sorry for them.

2 - They should try to make the best of it.

3 - There are equivalent positions at Home Depot, Lowes, various food stores, Target etc. It's hard to get on in a bad economy, but not impossible. They could at least try to get a better job.

4 - They should be grateful that SOMEBODY took them in. Below Walmart level employment would probably be a bunch of dangerous, difficult, backbreaking horror-jobs. Thank you Wal*Mart for saving these people 'from certain peril'. 
[img17.imageshack.us image 678x441]

I'm guessing you haven't spent much time in flyover country. Outside your affluent suburbs, they're AIN'T a lot of HDs, Lowes, food stores. In much of Amurka, there's Wal-Mart, Mickie D's and nothing.


Hey, I'm raised in a friggin' swamp in Louisiana. My mother was a gator poacher when I was a kid. True. I still hate that place and will never go back. Well, on that note, here is what I did... I moved to a better place, then another and then another. Crappy jobs in every town. In my late forties, I finally had gone thru so many lousy jobs that I'd become a jack of all trades. I put this to use by starting an appliance repair company with only $800. I toughed out the first two years, but stuck with it and kept doing what I had to to eke out a living. This year, it appears that we will make it after all.

But I promise you this: Anybody who has little training and limited skills and little education will never get ahead in this county or anywhere else. I want these people to work at Wal*Mart if they can somehow get a job there. They'll never get ahead, but they'll never starve if they otherwise make smart decisions, such as living frugally.

My life has been pretty hard, but rather than whine about things, I silently walked away and moved on. Never had one really nice job. Now owning my own company, my family is doing okay, and maybe someday, we'll be doing well. This could never have happened had I not chosen early to move and move and move, and having quit and quit and quit.

/So, who says that running away won't solve your problems? It solved every problem I've ever had. Try it.

//If my neighborhood seems affluent to you, well come on over and let me introduce you to the $30k homes here. Move on in, neighbor. Glad to have you.
 
2012-11-18 05:50:59 PM  

WhyteRaven74: DrPainMD: it weren't for the "robber barons," you wouldn't have cheap energy, free libraries, and most of what gives you one of the highest standards of living the human race has ever seen.

you're not even smart enough to realize what you're defending.

Silly Jesus: They are the kind of people that would be 100% on the government teat if not for WalMart. I

they wouldn't be , and if Walmart actually took care of their employees they wouldn't need government benefits at all.


How do you figure they wouldn't be? Their skills and resourcefulness have taken them all the way up to the level of not showing up to work at WalMart. What's below that other than the government teat?

It's not the job of WalMart to "take care of" their employees. It's the job of Walmart to trade their money for the voluntary labor of their employees at a rate that the employees are worth to the company.
 
2012-11-18 05:51:18 PM  

Great Janitor: WhyteRaven74: coffee smells good: FIFY

Or Apple, or plenty of other companies. I just went with Papa John's cause they've been in the news the last week

Great Janitor: There is no reason why these Walmart employees who are complaining about low hours each week can't be spending their down time bettering themselves with added skills, education, what ever

and how exactly should they pay for that?

Because going to the library costs money?


If that really worked, universities would be out of business.
 
2012-11-18 05:52:35 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: You'd think that boostrappy types would tire of Walmart bolstering its profits at taxpayers' expense.


Yes, yes you would. And you would think that these same bootstrappy types would also balk at buying all that crap made in China, because of 'they took our jerbs'. Funny old world, isn't it?
 
2012-11-18 05:52:58 PM  

coco ebert: Trance354: coco ebert: tbhouston: People choose to work at Walmart for what ever reason..no one is forcing them...

As someone who studies labor markets, I can say that there really aren't that many options for "unskilled" or "low-skilled" jobs in this economy. Retailers have largely followed Wal-mart's lead and have increasingly relied on low-wage, part-time work that offers next to zero benefits. Simply telling workers, "oh well it's your fault you don't have a better job" is lazy and not grounded in empirical reality.

Speaking as someone in one of those low-paying jobs, though admittedly I'm better off because of a narrow but much needed skill set withing this industry, the major box stores have been forever moving toward the wal-mart example, while at the same time trying to figure out why their turnover was so high. Recently the twits in charge of my current company hit on the idea of paying a decent wage and giving benefirts to full-time employees. After 3 years of biatching about wanting full time and benefits, I fianlly have a good paying 2nd job(not full time, though), that I don't want to stop(side benefits and such), I am in college for engineering, and I have my own start-up design business. They are just now going to full time for the majority of employees. And they wonder why I don't want to quit college and my other job.

/wait a minute, the job landscape will change

That's interesting that they are moving towards a full-time pay with benefits model. I wonder how that will go. Part of the difficulty in organizing for better work conditions, higher wages, and better benefits is that there are many people like you- that see it as a part-time thing as a stepping stone to something better (and there's nothing wrong with that by the way!). Unfortunately, not everyone will move up the career ladder, so making this type of work more humane (i.e. making it possible for someone to support themselves let alone a family), will benefit us as a society.


A minimum job should not be seen as anything else but a stepping stone. In theory- you start out minimum waged and as time goes by, and you've become proficient at a task, becoming an asset to your company with an increase in pay reflecting this. Eventually, you would take on more responsibility and should progress into a position of more responsibility, thus more pay. If you have been a cashier for two years and you are earning close to the same wages you started with, you need to ask yourself why. Did I fail to meet the requirements needed to move upwarded? Are others in similar positions moving but I'm not? Is everybody pretty much where they started out because this is a closed ended job (dead end) that does not offer any opportunity for advancement?

Minimum wage jobs were never intended as careers, only as an entry level stepping stone on the way to that career or as a supplement to another job.

From my many visits various Walmarts, most of them appeared to be manned by kids and workers augmenting other jobs. Kids really do not need healthcare or retirement benefits as they are still living with their parents. If given an opportunity to participate in a 401k with a partial annual match, I believe most of them would opt out for the immediate few bucks now.

Benefits are that carrot dangled in your face to attract you to a job. Better Jobs have better carrots. Minimum wage jobs offer no carrots. You want carrots, increase your set skills rather than remaining where you are. If you fail to move- you have to take what you get.
 
2012-11-18 05:53:05 PM  

mbillips: Great Janitor: I honestly don't get this. My first two jobs were retail jobs. I hated it. Hours sucked, pay was minimum wage, hated dealing with idiot and rude customers, got pissed everytime I came in on my day off to work a special project for the boss (building shelves in the stock room or swapping out seasonal merchandise from the holiday that just ended to the new one, or just expanding the christmas section) and the boss took credit for all of it when the DM commented to him how great that area looked. I decided that if anything was going to get better in my life, it had to be me who made the change. I could either biatch and moan to my managers until they caved into my demands or I could better myself. I did. I took a series of entry level jobs that offered to train anyone and learned a variety of skills. Went to college, got a degree that was designed to better my job prospects. Even learned how to sell swimming pools, cars and insurance. When you learn how to sell your income is unlimited. As opposed to working hourly where your income is limited to the number of hours you work.

I realized that while I could change where I worked, the place where I worked and those I worked for aren't fixed. I could in theory make the retail chain I worked for the best place to ever work with great hours and above average pay, but when it comes to jobs your boss can give you two words and you're gone (You're fired, good bye, get out). And if management changes, that great deal I worked out could die or come back to bite me in the ass. I make myself better and no manager or job can change that.

Today I am in a position where I don't have to work at a minimum wage job. My last job interview had the boss explaining to me how in one week I could earn $5,000 commission with residuals for life selling to one person. There is no reason why these Walmart employees who are complaining about low hours each week can't be spending their down time bettering themselves ...

Guess what, asshole? Not everyone is a skilled liar, which is the basic skill set for a sales job.


WRONG!!! In sales I can not lie. When it comes to insurance, I lie to get a sale and I get sued. When it comes to a sale that results in residuals, lying only means that when they find out I will lose those residuals, so my future income would take a huge hit. Not just that, but I would then lose potential clients by having those I lied to spreading around that I lied to them.
 
2012-11-18 05:53:29 PM  

Silly Jesus: How do you figure they wouldn't be?


if they were paid better they wouldn't need food stamps and if they were provided benefits, like insurance, they wouldn't need help there.

It's not the job of WalMart to "take care of" their employees

Sam Walton felt differently
 
2012-11-18 05:53:34 PM  

Ed_Severson: andrewagill: Really? I think I might be more inclined to listen to the guy who says he's so upset about his lack of work that he's willing to do less work in order to draw attention to it.

Anecdotes are not evidence. However ...

In college, I worked at a supermarket. I can recall case after case after case --hundreds, perhaps -- of part-time employees requesting more hours. The ones who showed up on time every time they were scheduled were accommodated whenever possible. The ones who were chronically late or failed to show up for a shift? Fewer hours going forward, every single time. In a retail environment, if the company does not have 100% confidence that you will be at work when you're supposed to be at work, they will depend on you as little as they possibly can.


Sure, if one guy shows up late, they might cut his hours. If two people do it, in harmony, they might think they're both lovers and cut both their hours. But if all the employees in your store leave en masse, are you going to fire all of them? Are you going to spend weeks hiring and training people during the busiest time of the year? That is the essence of a strike, and why that sort of logic fails.
 
2012-11-18 05:53:54 PM  

jshine: Diogenes Teufelsdrockh: jshine: There's nothing in the Bible that says "And verily did Jesus feast upon the turkeys and stuffing and mashed potatoes and pie, then get drunk and watch football. So sayeth The Lord. Amen".

Psst...it actually kind of is, just pushed back a tad. See: Feast of Tabernacles
...
So how did the one stem from the other? ...


He didn't say one came from the other. He's saying there's a parallel between the not-in-the-Bible Jesus quote above, and Deuteronomy 14:22-27 (especially 26, which some translations make sound more debauched than others) which is part of the official instructions for observing the Feast of Tabernacles.
 
2012-11-18 05:53:57 PM  

Silly Jesus: WhyteRaven74: DrPainMD: it weren't for the "robber barons," you wouldn't have cheap energy, free libraries, and most of what gives you one of the highest standards of living the human race has ever seen.

you're not even smart enough to realize what you're defending.

Silly Jesus: They are the kind of people that would be 100% on the government teat if not for WalMart. I

they wouldn't be , and if Walmart actually took care of their employees they wouldn't need government benefits at all.

How do you figure they wouldn't be? Their skills and resourcefulness have taken them all the way up to the level of not showing up to work at WalMart. What's below that other than the government teat?

It's not the job of WalMart to "take care of" their employees. It's the job of Walmart to trade their money for the voluntary labor of their employees at a rate that the employees are worth to the company.


Fair enough, then you agree it's the government's place to look after the employees then?

/Who am I kidding lol "Let them eat cake" right?
 
2012-11-18 05:54:00 PM  

EVERYBODY PANIC: Well, on that note, here is what I did... I moved to a better place, then another and then another


Sounding an awful lot like a "Soft on Immigration" Liberal with that garbage!
 
2012-11-18 05:54:19 PM  

WhyteRaven74: tenpoundsofcheese: Oh please, where is the social compact? Details? When does a person enter into it? How?

living as a member of society


okay, I'll bite.

Please list out the terms of the social compact for the US.

I'll wait.
 
2012-11-18 05:54:31 PM  
I feel bad for those people. It's bad enough they have no skills or future, but then they're dumb enough to strike during the worst economic environment since the 1930's. They'll be lucky to make it through the end of the pay period.
 
2012-11-18 05:54:52 PM  

WhyteRaven74: and thanks to the turnover the company is going to have to spend more money.


They won't care if it unburdens them from having an employee who doesn't want to be there and may or may not show up for work. That costs the company money too.

Problem: Employee doesn't believe he gets enough hours per week.
Employee action: Skip work.
Employer response: Find someone else to cover that shift, permanently.

Every. Time.
 
2012-11-18 05:55:17 PM  

EVERYBODY PANIC: mbillips: EVERYBODY PANIC: vartian: tbhouston: People choose to work at Walmart for what ever reason..no one is forcing them...

Yeah, because people who work at Walmart have all these options just laid out in front of them.

Hey, if working for Wal*Mart is the best that these folks can do...

1 - I sorta feel sorry for them.

2 - They should try to make the best of it.

3 - There are equivalent positions at Home Depot, Lowes, various food stores, Target etc. It's hard to get on in a bad economy, but not impossible. They could at least try to get a better job.

4 - They should be grateful that SOMEBODY took them in. Below Walmart level employment would probably be a bunch of dangerous, difficult, backbreaking horror-jobs. Thank you Wal*Mart for saving these people 'from certain peril'. 
[img17.imageshack.us image 678x441]

I'm guessing you haven't spent much time in flyover country. Outside your affluent suburbs, they're AIN'T a lot of HDs, Lowes, food stores. In much of Amurka, there's Wal-Mart, Mickie D's and nothing.

Hey, I'm raised in a friggin' swamp in Louisiana. My mother was a gator poacher when I was a kid. True. I still hate that place and will never go back. Well, on that note, here is what I did... I moved to a better place, then another and then another. Crappy jobs in every town. In my late forties, I finally had gone thru so many lousy jobs that I'd become a jack of all trades. I put this to use by starting an appliance repair company with only $800. I toughed out the first two years, but stuck with it and kept doing what I had to to eke out a living. This year, it appears that we will make it after all.

But I promise you this: Anybody who has little training and limited skills and little education will never get ahead in this county or anywhere else. I want these people to work at Wal*Mart if they can somehow get a job there. They'll never get ahead, but they'll never starve if they otherwise make smart decisions, such as living frugally.

My life ...


Bootstraps are just a right wing myth!!!

Most people can't work hard!!!

Most people are poor poor pitiful poor with no skills and no hope!!!!
 
2012-11-18 05:55:43 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Great Janitor: WhyteRaven74: coffee smells good: FIFY

Or Apple, or plenty of other companies. I just went with Papa John's cause they've been in the news the last week

Great Janitor: There is no reason why these Walmart employees who are complaining about low hours each week can't be spending their down time bettering themselves with added skills, education, what ever

and how exactly should they pay for that?

Because going to the library costs money?

If that really worked, universities would be out of business.


It can, it just isn't reliable. I make a very good salary and I don't have a high school diploma. I have since gotten a GED and am getting a degree now, but that is mostly to be an example to my kids.

Of course I am an outlier who had a lot of advantages. I am a white male (that helps a lot) that got a decent education (even if my grades didn't reflect it) and am more intelligent than many people. I also am pretty charismatic and healthy. I worked retail for awhile and at 25 decided I didn't want to wear a name tag anymore and bootstrapped myself into an IT career.

It can be done but it would be complete bullshiat to say anyone can do it.
 
2012-11-18 05:56:14 PM  

jestme: PleaseHamletDon'tHurtEm: I'm stuck working at my temp call-center job on Friday, so I'm getting a kick out of these replies...

I will be working at Walmart. I am far from stupid or unskilled. I have another part-time job and am a full-time student. I work at Walmart because I get health insurance and other benefits despite my telling Walmart that I'll only work a couple of evenings and one weekend day each week. Oh and I've never made minimum wage there, either.


OMG! You poor oppressed guy! Reading all the whiny stuff in this thread, I just know that you must be miserable. Why, if...
Hey, wait a minute. You get decent pay and medical benefits by working for Wal*Mart? Then tell us all what is all this fuss then. Is it just the newest attempt by the evil union bosses to throttle a big business? Say it isn't so!
 
2012-11-18 05:56:21 PM  

Fail in Human Form: It's not the job of WalMart to "take care of" their employees. It's the job of Walmart to trade their money for the voluntary labor of their employees at a rate that the employees are worth to the company.

Fair enough, then you agree it's the government's place to look after the employees then?


How did you make that leap?
 
2012-11-18 05:57:11 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Please list out the terms of the social compact for the US.


Check your 1040
 
2012-11-18 05:57:18 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Please list out the terms of the social compact for the US.


So you admit to having never read a word of Jefferson, Adams, Madison, Jay et al? You know that's not helping your credibility around here.

Ed_Severson: They won't care if it unburdens them from having an employee who doesn't want to be there and may or may not show up for work.


the people are only striking as a last ditch measure, had Walmart taken care of them they wouldn't be striking. The problem is purely of Walmart's making.
 
2012-11-18 05:57:31 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Silly Jesus: How do you figure they wouldn't be?

if they were paid better they wouldn't need food stamps and if they were provided benefits, like insurance, they wouldn't need help there.

It's not the job of WalMart to "take care of" their employees

Sam Walton felt differently


Too bad it's not his company anymore. The people running it get to decide such things.
 
2012-11-18 05:57:56 PM  

DrPainMD: Also, it's already happening. Lots of successful people worked at Walmart earlier in their lives. The ones who went home and watched TV every night are the ones still working there.


I can't argue with this part of your argument. After 5 years as a hospital corpsman in the Navy, I was pushing carts at Target making $7.25/hr. Now I'm a coont-hair away from a graduate degree and fixin' to pull in six-figures. My boot-straps go up to my armpits. My life story is a Republican's wet dream. But I don't identify with anything they stand for and since I come from the lower classes, I'll continue to support things that support the lower classes.

fark all these greedy corporations and their greedy executives. That goes for Wal-Mart, Hostess, and any other greedy piece-of-shiat corporation that treats their employees like garbage. 

P.s. I'm part of the 47% because I am not working (thus, not paying income taxes) and also using my G.I. Bill.
 
2012-11-18 05:58:41 PM  

Silly Jesus: Most people can't work hard!!!


Among the hardest working people around are people who make very little.
 
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