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(Guardian)   Empowered by the Hostess strike, the Black Friday Walmart strike begins early   (guardian.co.uk) divider line 635
    More: Followup, flight attendants  
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18432 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Nov 2012 at 4:16 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-18 05:20:22 PM

Diogenes Teufelsdrockh: jshine: hbk72777: Not everyone celebrates Thanksgiving. Maybe the Jews, Muslims, Jehovahs, etc WANT THE WORK

Its not a religious holiday, you know.

There's nothing in the Bible that says "And verily did Jesus feast upon the turkeys and stuffing and mashed potatoes and pie, then get drunk and watch football. So sayeth The Lord. Amen".

Psst...it actually kind of is, just pushed back a tad. See: Feast of Tabernacles


Hate to think I'm living up to the old saw that atheists know biblical versus better than religious nuts.


So how did the one stem from the other? ...or is this just a matter of "There are two feasts, and both are around harvest, so therefore the one originated with the other." I'm guessing thats it, because according to Wikipedia, the two events don't share a lot in common (no pilgrimage to Jerusalem, Thanksgiving doesn't last 7 days, etc., etc.). And if "feasting at harvest time" is the extent of the connection, then one could just as easily say that Thanksgiving originated with Oktoberfest, since -- hey -- they're both in the fall.
 
2012-11-18 05:20:48 PM

Trance354: coco ebert: tbhouston: People choose to work at Walmart for what ever reason..no one is forcing them...

As someone who studies labor markets, I can say that there really aren't that many options for "unskilled" or "low-skilled" jobs in this economy. Retailers have largely followed Wal-mart's lead and have increasingly relied on low-wage, part-time work that offers next to zero benefits. Simply telling workers, "oh well it's your fault you don't have a better job" is lazy and not grounded in empirical reality.

Speaking as someone in one of those low-paying jobs, though admittedly I'm better off because of a narrow but much needed skill set withing this industry, the major box stores have been forever moving toward the wal-mart example, while at the same time trying to figure out why their turnover was so high. Recently the twits in charge of my current company hit on the idea of paying a decent wage and giving benefirts to full-time employees. After 3 years of biatching about wanting full time and benefits, I fianlly have a good paying 2nd job(not full time, though), that I don't want to stop(side benefits and such), I am in college for engineering, and I have my own start-up design business. They are just now going to full time for the majority of employees. And they wonder why I don't want to quit college and my other job.

/wait a minute, the job landscape will change


That's interesting that they are moving towards a full-time pay with benefits model. I wonder how that will go. Part of the difficulty in organizing for better work conditions, higher wages, and better benefits is that there are many people like you- that see it as a part-time thing as a stepping stone to something better (and there's nothing wrong with that by the way!). Unfortunately, not everyone will move up the career ladder, so making this type of work more humane (i.e. making it possible for someone to support themselves let alone a family), will benefit us as a society.
 
2012-11-18 05:20:50 PM

Ed_Severson: ph0rk: What else should they do? Walkouts and strikes are labor's only tool.

Walkouts and strikes can be effective for other problems, but when you complain that you aren't allowed to work enough and then you willingly give up hours, nobody is going to listen to you. You just voluntarily gave up a shift -- you're probably never going to get that shift back and somebody who shows up to work and busts his ass will get the 8 hours per week that used to be yours.


"I'm not getting enough sex."

"Well, here, let me rape you."

"No!"

"Then it's your own damned fault you're not getting enough sex!"
 
2012-11-18 05:21:32 PM

buckler: Ed_Severson: ph0rk: What else should they do? Walkouts and strikes are labor's only tool.

Walkouts and strikes can be effective for other problems, but when you complain that you aren't allowed to work enough and then you willingly give up hours, nobody is going to listen to you. You just voluntarily gave up a shift -- you're probably never going to get that shift back and somebody who shows up to work and busts his ass will get the 8 hours per week that used to be yours.

Those people are called "scabs".


Those people are also willing to work for what they have agreed to.
 
2012-11-18 05:21:50 PM

buckler: Those people are called "scabs".


Not in this case. The article references 30 employees spread across six stores. The people picking up the shifts given up by those 30 are their co-workers who just went from 32 to 40 hours per week at the expense of somebody who complained they couldn't make it on 32 and volunteered themselves for 24.

It's simple: when you say you want to work more and then fail to show up for work, management will pay attention to your actions, not your words.
 
2012-11-18 05:21:52 PM
what is traditionally the busiest shopping day of the year.


No it isn't! Quit repeating this lie, it makes you look dumb.
 
2012-11-18 05:22:04 PM

andrewagill: clowncar on fire: coco ebert: Awesome. Go for it, workers!

Remember- wages go up, the increase is passed onto the consumer. Win!

[arch.413chan.net image 379x214]

If it means that those workers have a better life and perhaps even make enough to afford things at places other than WAL*MART, I'm all for it.

Remember, just because you fap to Ayn Rand doesn't mean that everyone does.


Yup.
 
2012-11-18 05:22:07 PM
images.tribe.net
 
2012-11-18 05:22:11 PM

dickfreckle: Anyway, I'm proud of the workers for even planning a walk-out, but at the same time, they have to work or starve. Wal-Mart knows they have this leverage, unless all the employees planning to walk out have spouses that can support them.


...when it gets to the point that you'd rather starve than work at Wal-Mart, they lose the leverage.
 
2012-11-18 05:22:37 PM

mbillips: basemetal: Weaver95: basemetal: And in other news, WalMart is now hiring.

wal-mart's problem is that they've started to realize that they cannot actually fire their entire work force without it affecting their bottom line. turns out that even the min wage slaves play an important part in the business cycle.

Working for WalMart, other than management (and even them sometimes), is not rocket science, and it doesn't take that long to get an employee up to speed.

The union knows that, and that's why they're not doing a full-out strike. They're doing brief, targeted walkouts, which bleeds Wal-Mart, but doesn't get to the point where Wal-Mart would save money by firing the workers and hiring new ones.

If the Hostess unions had been as smart, you might still be able to buy Twinkies (probably not; that company was so mismanaged and overleveraged that labor problems were the least of it).


Hostess was telling them to go from a middle-class job to a minimum-wage one with no pension. At that point you really can't negotiate much.
 
2012-11-18 05:23:23 PM

deanayer: This is called REALITY if you happen to be taking notes.


nothing says management and employees have to be in adversarial positions. There are plenty of companies where they aren't in opposition. And there are entire countries where if you suggested management butting heads with the employees to save a buck or something you'd be laughed out of the room.
 
2012-11-18 05:24:05 PM

mbillips: A Day Older than Yesterday: whistleridge:
Have you ever been to some towns in flyover country? You know, the ones where there used to be 20 - 30 businesses downtown, and now there's a Wal-Mart on the edge of the bunch of shuttered buildings that used to be downtown? Where do you think the folks that worked in those businesses went? Where else would they go?

I believe you're thinking of the Ames stores in the 1950's and 1960's that put a significant number of mom & pops out of business. Please study some business history before you post the well worn cliche. You may also want to read about hows malls really destroyed Main Streets in the 1960's and 1970's.

/shops at Walmart and has shopped at Toys-r-us, Barnes & Noble and Target.
//Sam Walton gave the max to Obama's Victory Fund two cycles in a row.

Sam Walton died in 1992, so I'm going to need a citation.



Good God are you helpless, that statistic was on every political article/blog/comment this week. Some refer to Sam as CEO but he's actual heir. 

Typical liberal response to an argument they can't logically discuss: 1) call someone a name like we're still in the 4th grade, 2) ask for a citation to a known or easily ascertained idea 3) lie. 

Am so tired of the "citation" call by the lazy & stupid.
 
2012-11-18 05:24:37 PM
Why is it that the WalMarts are being singled out? Maybe because of their massive profits vs. pay scale and benefits?
Other companies are really just as bad as WalMart. Look at McDonalds, Starbucks, Target, actually most retail places. They don't have benefits or pay very well either.
 
2012-11-18 05:24:54 PM

IlGreven: ...when it gets to the point that you'd rather starve than work at Wal-Mart, they lose the leverage.


Hey, people at Foxconn got to the point they'd rather jump out of windows than work there, and you saw what that got the workers...
 
2012-11-18 05:26:00 PM

BarkingUnicorn: ronaprhys: whatshisname: What happens when ALL the companies treat their employees badly?

Well, considering that there are no more robber barons, I think it's pretty safe to say that ain't happening.

WTF is wrong with your eyes?


Nothing. What year did you fail history in?
 
2012-11-18 05:26:31 PM

that bosnian sniper: IlGreven: ...when it gets to the point that you'd rather starve than work at Wal-Mart, they lose the leverage.

Hey, people at Foxconn got to the point they'd rather jump out of windows than work there, and you saw what that got the workers...


And I'm glad that American CEOs are taking their cues from China.
 
2012-11-18 05:26:43 PM

that bosnian sniper: IlGreven: ...when it gets to the point that you'd rather starve than work at Wal-Mart, they lose the leverage.

Hey, people at Foxconn got to the point they'd rather jump out of windows than work there, and you saw what that got the workers...


Yeah: safety nets.
 
2012-11-18 05:26:58 PM

EVERYBODY PANIC: vartian: tbhouston: People choose to work at Walmart for what ever reason..no one is forcing them...

Yeah, because people who work at Walmart have all these options just laid out in front of them.

Hey, if working for Wal*Mart is the best that these folks can do...

1 - I sorta feel sorry for them.

2 - They should try to make the best of it.

3 - There are equivalent positions at Home Depot, Lowes, various food stores, Target etc. It's hard to get on in a bad economy, but not impossible. They could at least try to get a better job.

4 - They should be grateful that SOMEBODY took them in. Below Walmart level employment would probably be a bunch of dangerous, difficult, backbreaking horror-jobs. Thank you Wal*Mart for saving these people 'from certain peril'. 
[img17.imageshack.us image 678x441]


I'm guessing you haven't spent much time in flyover country. Outside your affluent suburbs, they're AIN'T a lot of HDs, Lowes, food stores. In much of Amurka, there's Wal-Mart, Mickie D's and nothing.
 
2012-11-18 05:28:03 PM

BarkingUnicorn: that bosnian sniper: IlGreven: ...when it gets to the point that you'd rather starve than work at Wal-Mart, they lose the leverage.

Hey, people at Foxconn got to the point they'd rather jump out of windows than work there, and you saw what that got the workers...

Yeah: safety nets.


Thanksfully, WalMart stores are generally on a single level, so jumping off the roof wouldn't be fatal anyway.
 
2012-11-18 05:28:51 PM

A Day Older than Yesterday: whistleridge:
Have you ever been to some towns in flyover country? You know, the ones where there used to be 20 - 30 businesses downtown, and now there's a Wal-Mart on the edge of the bunch of shuttered buildings that used to be downtown? Where do you think the folks that worked in those businesses went? Where else would they go?

I believe you're thinking of the Ames stores in the 1950's and 1960's that put a significant number of mom & pops out of business. Please study some business history before you post the well worn cliche. You may also want to read about hows malls really destroyed Main Streets in the 1960's and 1970's.

/shops at Walmart and has shopped at Toys-r-us, Barnes & Noble and Target.
//Sam Walton gave the max to Obama's Victory Fund two cycles in a row.



You left off McDonalds, KMart, In-n-Out, Lowes, Home Depot, the former Borders, Kroger...................
 
2012-11-18 05:28:52 PM
I don't shop a walmart, and I don't have a dog in this fight.
But I wanted to make a couple of observations.

Do people seriously believe that the purpose of a company is to "Better Humanity"?
That may be what you formed YOUR company to do, but it isn't what most others were formed for.

According to the google (various. I won't link them, but you can do your own search) Customer Service Managers make between $12 and $14 an hour.

I seriously doubt that the person in the article is making only $14,000 a year full time.
Minimum wage (what floor associates start at) is over $18,000 full time.

The last time the walmart in my area had a job fair, they had over 1000 people for each of 15 jobs apply.

They run the largest retail chain in history (and without my patronage. go figure). A pretty impressive feat.
 
2012-11-18 05:28:57 PM

ronaprhys: Nothing. What year did you fail history in?


While we may not call them robber barons we have plenty of people acting like them, see Papa John's.
 
2012-11-18 05:29:15 PM

andrewagill: Really? I think I might be more inclined to listen to the guy who says he's so upset about his lack of work that he's willing to do less work in order to draw attention to it.


Anecdotes are not evidence. However ...

In college, I worked at a supermarket. I can recall case after case after case --hundreds, perhaps -- of part-time employees requesting more hours. The ones who showed up on time every time they were scheduled were accommodated whenever possible. The ones who were chronically late or failed to show up for a shift? Fewer hours going forward, every single time. In a retail environment, if the company does not have 100% confidence that you will be at work when you're supposed to be at work, they will depend on you as little as they possibly can.
 
2012-11-18 05:29:38 PM
Making $14,000/year is a rate of $6.74/hour for a 40 hour per week employee, which is below minimum wage.
Is this "Customer Service Manager" exempt? If so, she is being really and truly screwed. If not, then she is working less than 40 hours per week.
 
2012-11-18 05:30:07 PM
How I know you will never have a job more intensive than pulling french fries from a french fryer:


Working for WalMart, other than management (and even them sometimes), is not rocket science, and it doesn't take that long to get an employee up to speed.
 
2012-11-18 05:30:42 PM

Ed_Severson: ph0rk: What else should they do? Walkouts and strikes are labor's only tool.

Walkouts and strikes can be effective for other problems, but when you complain that you aren't allowed to work enough and then you willingly give up hours, nobody is going to listen to you. You just voluntarily gave up a shift -- you're probably never going to get that shift back and somebody who shows up to work and busts his ass will get the 8 hours per week that used to be yours.


Of course, you could look at it as the worker saying, "Okay, so you wanna keep me at as few hours as possible? How 'bout zero? That okay with you?"

/"Oh, and good luck hiring a replacement after I get done tellin' 'em my story."
 
2012-11-18 05:31:21 PM

cig-mkr: Why is it that the WalMarts are being singled out? Maybe because of their massive profits vs. pay scale and benefits?
Other companies are really just as bad as WalMart. Look at McDonalds, Starbucks, Target, actually most retail places. They don't have benefits or pay very well either.

.

Because when Sam was alive, the employees did have good benefits. As soon as the dirt hit his coffin, Walmart has chipped away at everything he made respectable. I worked for walmart for six years. In those six years, I saw the 90 day raise go away, the sunday pay difference go away, the "extra" raise where if you were completely excellent, you got a second raise within your year raises, benefits get worse for those that were full time.

/Once had a Corporate manager ask me why I wasn't stocking eggs through a wall.
 
2012-11-18 05:31:53 PM

WhyteRaven74: ronaprhys: Nothing. What year did you fail history in?

While we may not call them robber barons we have plenty of people acting like them, see Papa John's Apple.


FIFY
 
2012-11-18 05:32:20 PM

Spirit Hammer: I don't shop a walmart, and I don't have a dog in this fight.
But I wanted to make a couple of observations.

Do people seriously believe that the purpose of a company is to "Better Humanity"?
That may be what you formed YOUR company to do, but it isn't what most others were formed for.

According to the google (various. I won't link them, but you can do your own search) Customer Service Managers make between $12 and $14 an hour.

I seriously doubt that the person in the article is making only $14,000 a year full time.
Minimum wage (what floor associates start at) is over $18,000 full time.

The last time the walmart in my area had a job fair, they had over 1000 people for each of 15 jobs apply.

They run the largest retail chain in history (and without my patronage. go figure). A pretty impressive feat.


I don't doubt her claim that she works "full time" (I am sure it is less than 40 hours) and depends on food stamps. That is something that we should all be concerned about.
 
2012-11-18 05:32:23 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Link Article from a Federal Way, WA, newspaper.

"Between 20 and 30" Walmart employees "from six Western Washington Walmart stores" gathered at one store for this rally.

Gonna have to step it up, people.

As for you free-marketers who say, "Well, the worker CHOSE Walmart," that's like saying a starving beggar chooses the guy who flips him just a penny. Fark you all.


Yeah, that's probably equivalent to the no-shows.
 
2012-11-18 05:33:05 PM

coffee smells good: mbillips: A Day Older than Yesterday: whistleridge:
Have you ever been to some towns in flyover country? You know, the ones where there used to be 20 - 30 businesses downtown, and now there's a Wal-Mart on the edge of the bunch of shuttered buildings that used to be downtown? Where do you think the folks that worked in those businesses went? Where else would they go?

I believe you're thinking of the Ames stores in the 1950's and 1960's that put a significant number of mom & pops out of business. Please study some business history before you post the well worn cliche. You may also want to read about hows malls really destroyed Main Streets in the 1960's and 1970's.

/shops at Walmart and has shopped at Toys-r-us, Barnes & Noble and Target.
//Sam Walton gave the max to Obama's Victory Fund two cycles in a row.

Sam Walton died in 1992, so I'm going to need a citation.


Good God are you helpless, that statistic was on every political article/blog/comment this week. Some refer to Sam as CEO but he's actual heir. 

Typical liberal response to an argument they can't logically discuss: 1) call someone a name like we're still in the 4th grade, 2) ask for a citation to a known or easily ascertained idea 3) lie. 

Am so tired of the "citation" call by the lazy & stupid.


Oh, THAT Sam Walton. The grandson hippie lib'ral who has nothing to do with Wal-Mart.
 
2012-11-18 05:33:09 PM

Ed_Severson: andrewagill: Really? I think I might be more inclined to listen to the guy who says he's so upset about his lack of work that he's willing to do less work in order to draw attention to it.

Anecdotes are not evidence. However ...

In college, I worked at a supermarket. I can recall case after case after case --hundreds, perhaps -- of part-time employees requesting more hours. The ones who showed up on time every time they were scheduled were accommodated whenever possible. The ones who were chronically late or failed to show up for a shift? Fewer hours going forward, every single time. In a retail environment, if the company does not have 100% confidence that you will be at work when you're supposed to be at work, they will depend on you as little as they possibly can.


I'm guessing Wal-Mart does not use the meritocracy model the supermarket you worked at does. Otherwise, the workers would be happy rather than pissed off.
 
2012-11-18 05:33:10 PM

ronaprhys: BarkingUnicorn: ronaprhys: whatshisname: What happens when ALL the companies treat their employees badly?

Well, considering that there are no more robber barons, I think it's pretty safe to say that ain't happening.

WTF is wrong with your eyes?

Nothing. What year did you fail history in?


OK, let me see you define "robber baron" so that it cannot possibly apply to any contemporary businesspeople.
 
2012-11-18 05:33:27 PM
I honestly don't get this. My first two jobs were retail jobs. I hated it. Hours sucked, pay was minimum wage, hated dealing with idiot and rude customers, got pissed everytime I came in on my day off to work a special project for the boss (building shelves in the stock room or swapping out seasonal merchandise from the holiday that just ended to the new one, or just expanding the christmas section) and the boss took credit for all of it when the DM commented to him how great that area looked. I decided that if anything was going to get better in my life, it had to be me who made the change. I could either biatch and moan to my managers until they caved into my demands or I could better myself. I did. I took a series of entry level jobs that offered to train anyone and learned a variety of skills. Went to college, got a degree that was designed to better my job prospects. Even learned how to sell swimming pools, cars and insurance. When you learn how to sell your income is unlimited. As opposed to working hourly where your income is limited to the number of hours you work.

I realized that while I could change where I worked, the place where I worked and those I worked for aren't fixed. I could in theory make the retail chain I worked for the best place to ever work with great hours and above average pay, but when it comes to jobs your boss can give you two words and you're gone (You're fired, good bye, get out). And if management changes, that great deal I worked out could die or come back to bite me in the ass. I make myself better and no manager or job can change that.

Today I am in a position where I don't have to work at a minimum wage job. My last job interview had the boss explaining to me how in one week I could earn $5,000 commission with residuals for life selling to one person. There is no reason why these Walmart employees who are complaining about low hours each week can't be spending their down time bettering themselves with added skills, education, what ever.
 
2012-11-18 05:34:25 PM

Great Janitor: I honestly don't get this. My first two jobs were retail jobs. I hated it. Hours sucked, pay was minimum wage, hated dealing with idiot and rude customers, got pissed everytime I came in on my day off to work a special project for the boss (building shelves in the stock room or swapping out seasonal merchandise from the holiday that just ended to the new one, or just expanding the christmas section) and the boss took credit for all of it when the DM commented to him how great that area looked. I decided that if anything was going to get better in my life, it had to be me who made the change. I could either biatch and moan to my managers until they caved into my demands or I could better myself. I did. I took a series of entry level jobs that offered to train anyone and learned a variety of skills. Went to college, got a degree that was designed to better my job prospects. Even learned how to sell swimming pools, cars and insurance. When you learn how to sell your income is unlimited. As opposed to working hourly where your income is limited to the number of hours you work.

I realized that while I could change where I worked, the place where I worked and those I worked for aren't fixed. I could in theory make the retail chain I worked for the best place to ever work with great hours and above average pay, but when it comes to jobs your boss can give you two words and you're gone (You're fired, good bye, get out). And if management changes, that great deal I worked out could die or come back to bite me in the ass. I make myself better and no manager or job can change that.

Today I am in a position where I don't have to work at a minimum wage job. My last job interview had the boss explaining to me how in one week I could earn $5,000 commission with residuals for life selling to one person. There is no reason why these Walmart employees who are complaining about low hours each week can't be spending their down time bettering themselves with added skil ...


larryfire.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-11-18 05:34:47 PM

red5ish: Making $14,000/year is a rate of $6.74/hour for a 40 hour per week employee, which is below minimum wage.
Is this "Customer Service Manager" exempt? If so, she is being really and truly screwed. If not, then she is working less than 40 hours per week.


There is no universal standard when it comes to "full time" employee, the company gets to define it. I have seen it defined as 30 or 32 hours a week in some places.
 
2012-11-18 05:35:25 PM

BarkingUnicorn: that bosnian sniper: IlGreven: ...when it gets to the point that you'd rather starve than work at Wal-Mart, they lose the leverage.

Hey, people at Foxconn got to the point they'd rather jump out of windows than work there, and you saw what that got the workers...

Yeah: safety nets.


Which is, ironically, more than what workers at Wal-Mart are getting.
 
2012-11-18 05:35:37 PM
The "problem" with the Walmart strategy is that you and I pay their employee's benefits through taxes, whether we shop there or not.
 
2012-11-18 05:35:48 PM

Great Janitor: I honestly don't get this. My first two jobs were retail jobs. I hated it. Hours sucked, pay was minimum wage, hated dealing with idiot and rude customers, got pissed everytime I came in on my day off to work a special project for the boss (building shelves in the stock room or swapping out seasonal merchandise from the holiday that just ended to the new one, or just expanding the christmas section) and the boss took credit for all of it when the DM commented to him how great that area looked. I decided that if anything was going to get better in my life, it had to be me who made the change. I could either biatch and moan to my managers until they caved into my demands or I could better myself. I did. I took a series of entry level jobs that offered to train anyone and learned a variety of skills. Went to college, got a degree that was designed to better my job prospects. Even learned how to sell swimming pools, cars and insurance. When you learn how to sell your income is unlimited. As opposed to working hourly where your income is limited to the number of hours you work.

I realized that while I could change where I worked, the place where I worked and those I worked for aren't fixed. I could in theory make the retail chain I worked for the best place to ever work with great hours and above average pay, but when it comes to jobs your boss can give you two words and you're gone (You're fired, good bye, get out). And if management changes, that great deal I worked out could die or come back to bite me in the ass. I make myself better and no manager or job can change that.

Today I am in a position where I don't have to work at a minimum wage job. My last job interview had the boss explaining to me how in one week I could earn $5,000 commission with residuals for life selling to one person. There is no reason why these Walmart employees who are complaining about low hours each week can't be spending their down time bettering themselves with added skil ...


Everyone isn't as awesome as you are.
 
2012-11-18 05:36:03 PM

FarkerSnow: Strikers deserve the hero tag.


This was in the TF queue with a Hero tag.
 
2012-11-18 05:36:28 PM

Great Janitor: I honestly don't get this. My first two jobs were retail jobs. I hated it. Hours sucked, pay was minimum wage, hated dealing with idiot and rude customers, got pissed everytime I came in on my day off to work a special project for the boss (building shelves in the stock room or swapping out seasonal merchandise from the holiday that just ended to the new one, or just expanding the christmas section) and the boss took credit for all of it when the DM commented to him how great that area looked. I decided that if anything was going to get better in my life, it had to be me who made the change. I could either biatch and moan to my managers until they caved into my demands or I could better myself. I did. I took a series of entry level jobs that offered to train anyone and learned a variety of skills. Went to college, got a degree that was designed to better my job prospects. Even learned how to sell swimming pools, cars and insurance. When you learn how to sell your income is unlimited. As opposed to working hourly where your income is limited to the number of hours you work.

I realized that while I could change where I worked, the place where I worked and those I worked for aren't fixed. I could in theory make the retail chain I worked for the best place to ever work with great hours and above average pay, but when it comes to jobs your boss can give you two words and you're gone (You're fired, good bye, get out). And if management changes, that great deal I worked out could die or come back to bite me in the ass. I make myself better and no manager or job can change that.

Today I am in a position where I don't have to work at a minimum wage job. My last job interview had the boss explaining to me how in one week I could earn $5,000 commission with residuals for life selling to one person. There is no reason why these Walmart employees who are complaining about low hours each week can't be spending their down time bettering themselves with added skil ...


Yeah, sure, but you're all bootstrappy. Normal worthless people aren't capable of improving their lot in life. They need the government to take care of them and the charity of CEO's. What are you thinking? Free will? Pshhh. What nonsense.

They are stuck at WalMart AND THERE ARE NO OTHER OPTIONS!

/amidoinitright?
 
2012-11-18 05:36:50 PM

coffee smells good: FIFY


Or Apple, or plenty of other companies. I just went with Papa John's cause they've been in the news the last week

Great Janitor: There is no reason why these Walmart employees who are complaining about low hours each week can't be spending their down time bettering themselves with added skills, education, what ever


and how exactly should they pay for that?
 
2012-11-18 05:37:04 PM

coco ebert: tbhouston: People choose to work at Walmart for what ever reason..no one is forcing them...

As someone who studies labor markets, I can say that there really aren't that many options for "unskilled" or "low-skilled" jobs in this economy. Retailers have largely followed Wal-mart's lead and have increasingly relied on low-wage, part-time work that offers next to zero benefits. Simply telling workers, "oh well it's your fault you don't have a better job" is lazy and not grounded in empirical reality.


Their option came when they were kids. They chose not to study in school.
 
2012-11-18 05:37:10 PM

IlGreven: Of course, you could look at it as the worker saying, "Okay, so you wanna keep me at as few hours as possible? How 'bout zero? That okay with you?"


In an economy like this one, with an 8% nationwide unemployment rate, management's response to that question is easy to predict:

"Zero sounds fine. Best of luck to you ... I'm going to go have a look through the 300 applications on my desk now. Don't forget to clean out your locker."
 
2012-11-18 05:37:39 PM

WhyteRaven74: coffee smells good: FIFY

Or Apple, or plenty of other companies. I just went with Papa John's cause they've been in the news the last week

Great Janitor: There is no reason why these Walmart employees who are complaining about low hours each week can't be spending their down time bettering themselves with added skills, education, what ever

and how exactly should they pay for that?


Because going to the library costs money?
 
2012-11-18 05:37:53 PM

Great Janitor: There is no reason why these Walmart employees who are complaining about low hours each week can't be spending their down time bettering themselves with added skills, education, what ever.


If everyone did this those who did it the least would still be stuck working at Wal Mart.
 
2012-11-18 05:38:18 PM

Great Janitor: I honestly don't get this. My first two jobs were retail jobs. I hated it. Hours sucked, pay was minimum wage, hated dealing with idiot and rude customers, got pissed everytime I came in on my day off to work a special project for the boss (building shelves in the stock room or swapping out seasonal merchandise from the holiday that just ended to the new one, or just expanding the christmas section) and the boss took credit for all of it when the DM commented to him how great that area looked. I decided that if anything was going to get better in my life, it had to be me who made the change. I could either biatch and moan to my managers until they caved into my demands or I could better myself. I did. I took a series of entry level jobs that offered to train anyone and learned a variety of skills. Went to college, got a degree that was designed to better my job prospects. Even learned how to sell swimming pools, cars and insurance. When you learn how to sell your income is unlimited. As opposed to working hourly where your income is limited to the number of hours you work.

I realized that while I could change where I worked, the place where I worked and those I worked for aren't fixed. I could in theory make the retail chain I worked for the best place to ever work with great hours and above average pay, but when it comes to jobs your boss can give you two words and you're gone (You're fired, good bye, get out). And if management changes, that great deal I worked out could die or come back to bite me in the ass. I make myself better and no manager or job can change that.

Today I am in a position where I don't have to work at a minimum wage job. My last job interview had the boss explaining to me how in one week I could earn $5,000 commission with residuals for life selling to one person. There is no reason why these Walmart employees who are complaining about low hours each week can't be spending their down time bettering themselves with added skil ...


While social mobility exists, it is in decline. In short it is becoming more and more difficult for someone to better their position in our nation and those at the top like it that way.

Link
 
2012-11-18 05:38:18 PM

coco ebert: tbhouston: People choose to work at Walmart for what ever reason..no one is forcing them...

As someone who studies labor markets, I can say that there really aren't that many options for "unskilled" or "low-skilled" jobs in this economy. Retailers have largely followed Wal-mart's lead and have increasingly relied on low-wage, part-time work that offers next to zero benefits. Simply telling workers, "oh well it's your fault you don't have a better job" is lazy and not grounded in empirical reality.


PS. Retail has ALWAYS been a minimum wage job.
 
2012-11-18 05:38:47 PM

WhyteRaven74: ronaprhys: Nothing. What year did you fail history in?

While we may not call them robber barons we have plenty of people acting like them, see Papa John's.


Not even close.
 
2012-11-18 05:40:52 PM

12349876: Great Janitor: There is no reason why these Walmart employees who are complaining about low hours each week can't be spending their down time bettering themselves with added skills, education, what ever.

If everyone did this those who did it the least would still be stuck working at Wal Mart

where people who refuse to better themselves belong.

FTFY

Also, it's already happening. Lots of successful people worked at Walmart earlier in their lives. The ones who went home and watched TV every night are the ones still working there.
 
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