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(Palm Beach Post)   Allen West loses race when the recount he demanded isn't completed in time, state uses prior week's results   (palmbeachpost.com) divider line 144
    More: Florida, Allen West, Treasure Coast, write-in vote, secretary of states, St. Lucie County, Palm Beach County, Florida law  
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4933 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Nov 2012 at 4:42 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



144 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-11-18 06:15:54 PM  
One more dirty TeaBagger getting the axe. Sounds great to me. Enjoy the circle jerk at Fox News Mr. West.
 
2012-11-18 06:18:34 PM  

PlasticMoby: Poor Allen West. The wait must be torture.


Like having a gun fired next to your head.
 
2012-11-18 06:22:28 PM  
...And never shall his name be spoken in these hallowed halls ever again.

/Excepting the inevitable murder/suicide rampage
 
2012-11-18 06:26:41 PM  

Tymast: Arkanaut: simplicimus: Obviously, Florida need additional abacuses.

Abacuses? Those are killing American jobs. We just need enough hard-working, red-blooded Americans with 10 fingers and 10 toes, and we'll get those votes counted one way or another.

10 fingers and toes? we aint trustin' no stinkin libruls !


Favorited!
 
2012-11-18 06:28:22 PM  
I don't like this. There should never be a time limit on an official recount. Elections are too important to do anything but account for every goddamn ballot. Anything less is undemocratic.
 
2012-11-18 06:34:39 PM  

MooseUpNorth: I don't like this. There should never be a time limit on an official recount. Elections are too important to do anything but account for every goddamn ballot. Anything less is undemocratic.


That's what I said. In 2000.
 
2012-11-18 06:44:52 PM  

jso2897: MooseUpNorth: I don't like this. There should never be a time limit on an official recount. Elections are too important to do anything but account for every goddamn ballot. Anything less is undemocratic.

That's what I said. In 2000.


The problem with that is, you'd have the loser ENDLESSLY claiming there were more votes that hadn't been counted yet. How would you know when to stop? Would you keep the election undecided until EVERY registered voter had been accounted for? How would you do that? Have another vote, and require every registered voter to show up?

It's just not practical.
 
2012-11-18 06:47:32 PM  

realmolo: jso2897: MooseUpNorth: I don't like this. There should never be a time limit on an official recount. Elections are too important to do anything but account for every goddamn ballot. Anything less is undemocratic.

That's what I said. In 2000.

The problem with that is, you'd have the loser ENDLESSLY claiming there were more votes that hadn't been counted yet. How would you know when to stop? Would you keep the election undecided until EVERY registered voter had been accounted for? How would you do that? Have another vote, and require every registered voter to show up?

It's just not practical.


This is true, too - there has to be SOME cutoff point.
 
2012-11-18 06:57:10 PM  

quatchi: Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF is up with Florida? Do the rest of us have to go down there and teach you mofos how to goddamn COUNT?



As a "glass half empty" kind of guy I am still dismayed that this kind of scumbag gets 50% of the votes from ANY kind of electorate
 
2012-11-18 06:58:51 PM  

realmolo: jso2897: MooseUpNorth: I don't like this. There should never be a time limit on an official recount. Elections are too important to do anything but account for every goddamn ballot. Anything less is undemocratic.

That's what I said. In 2000.

The problem with that is, you'd have the loser ENDLESSLY claiming there were more votes that hadn't been counted yet. How would you know when to stop? Would you keep the election undecided until EVERY registered voter had been accounted for? How would you do that? Have another vote, and require every registered voter to show up?

It's just not practical.


Norm Coleman tried his hardest.
 
2012-11-18 06:59:31 PM  

Nem Wan: So, you can't have a recount if it takes too long. Might as well flip a coin instead of having an election.


If we're changing how Florida law handles a statistical dead heat election, I want it to use Thunderdome.

This gem from St Lucie County Elections Supervisor website:


note* - turnout percentages will show over 100% due to a two page ballot. the tabulation system (GEMS) provides voter turnout as equal to the total cards cast in the election divided by the number of registered voters. also note that some voters chose not to return by mail the second card containing the amendments.\


But, no, returns of over 100% must mean fraud!
 
2012-11-18 07:01:36 PM  
What we need to do is stop electing the people who run elections. Seriously, its a really bad idea to make that job a political one. Let the whole thing be run by civil servants, and make sure they know that if they screw up, they're fired and will be looking for a new line of work.

Its one thing Miami-Dade got right, and it works like this
 
2012-11-18 07:02:04 PM  

Flaming Yawn: quatchi: Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF is up with Florida? Do the rest of us have to go down there and teach you mofos how to goddamn COUNT?



As a "glass half empty" kind of guy I am still dismayed that this kind of scumbag gets 50% of the votes from ANY kind of electorate


The irony of that electorate being that a good number of them may be old Jewish WWII vets who fought against torture and crimes against humanity, but due to not having access to cable news, probably had no idea what a raving lunatic this guy was or that he committed war crimes, they just saw the R next to his name.
 
2012-11-18 07:04:25 PM  

MisterRonbo: What we need to do is stop electing the people who run elections. Seriously, its a really bad idea to make that job a political one. Let the whole thing be run by civil servants, and make sure they know that if they screw up, they're fired and will be looking for a new line of work.

Its one thing Miami-Dade got right, and it works like this


BIG GOVERNMENT! SOSHULIZM!

But really, Fox News co-exists in both energy states - crying that the current system doesn't work and then berating Big Government as a solution. WHY DO THEY HATE DEMOCRACY?
 
2012-11-18 07:07:34 PM  

MisterRonbo: What we need to do is stop electing the people who run elections. Seriously, its a really bad idea to make that job a political one. Let the whole thing be run by civil servants, and make sure they know that if they screw up, they're fired and will be looking for a new line of work.

Its one thing Miami-Dade got right, and it works like this


Except that Miami-Dade still farks up elections just as much as the rest of the state. See, for example the in-person absentee fiasco the Sunday before the election.
 
2012-11-18 07:13:06 PM  

rynthetyn:

Except that Miami-Dade still farks up elections just as much as the rest of the state. See, for example the in-person absentee fiasco the Sunday before the election.


Except the state shortened early voting days, which is what created that problem. And legally, the county didn't have to do a farking thing on that Sunday to let people vote. They tried to do something above and beyond what was required, and failed at that. Not the same as actually screwing up at what you're required to do, in fact the very heart of what you're there to do: count the votes.
 
2012-11-18 07:18:15 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF is up with Florida? Do the rest of us have to go down there and teach you mofos how to goddamn COUNT?


They don't need any of yer fancy book lernin, thank you very much.
 
2012-11-18 07:20:18 PM  
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-11-18 07:20:52 PM  

MisterRonbo: What we need to do is stop electing the people who run elections. Seriously, its a really bad idea to make that job a political one. Let the whole thing be run by civil servants, and make sure they know that if they screw up, they're fired and will be looking for a new line of work.

Its one thing Miami-Dade got right, and it works like this


Remember what Joe Stalin had to say about democracy and voting: 'It doesn't matter who votes, it matters who counts the votes.'
 
2012-11-18 07:20:59 PM  

dahmers love zombie: Florida law does allow an exemption to the deadline in an emergency and West's attorney are expected to argue that the exemption applies.

That exemption defines emergency as "any occurrence, or threat thereof, whether accidental, natural, or caused by human beings, in war or in peace, that results or may result in substantial injury or harm to the population or substantial damage to or loss of property to the extent it will prohibit an election officer's ability to conduct a safe and orderly election."

OK, West, you farkstick -- what kind of "emergency" are you basing this argument on? You gonna go with the "all Democrats are commies" line again, and see if the red-baiting approach works? Maybe you could go fire a gun next to the Supervisor of Elections' head, and claim that her hearing loss constitutes an emergency.

You repulsive, lying war criminal.  You lost because you were a repugnant piece of trash and the 50.001% of the voters knew it.

 
2012-11-18 07:21:27 PM  

fusillade762: Like having a gun fired next to your head.


.......*Sigh*.
 
2012-11-18 07:21:48 PM  
God damnit Florida.
 
2012-11-18 07:26:43 PM  

DubyaHater: One more dirty TeaBagger getting the axe. Sounds great to me. Enjoy the circle jerk at Fox News Mr. West.


He's too crazy for them. If they fired Glenn Beck for going too far with the conspiracy derp, this moron isn't getting within 100 miles of Fox News' studios.
 
2012-11-18 07:28:23 PM  

jake_lex: DubyaHater: One more dirty TeaBagger getting the axe. Sounds great to me. Enjoy the circle jerk at Fox News Mr. West.

He's too crazy for them. If they fired Glenn Beck for going too far with the conspiracy derp, this moron isn't getting within 100 miles of Fox News' studios.


Correspondent. Bank it. Done.
 
2012-11-18 07:36:42 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF is up with Florida? Do the rest of us have to go down there and teach you mofos how to goddamn COUNT?


Republicans seem to have a problem counting throughout the country.
 
2012-11-18 07:41:31 PM  
Hang in there, West. There's still some wells that haven't been pissed in.
 
2012-11-18 07:48:23 PM  

MisterRonbo: rynthetyn:

Except that Miami-Dade still farks up elections just as much as the rest of the state. See, for example the in-person absentee fiasco the Sunday before the election.

Except the state shortened early voting days, which is what created that problem. And legally, the county didn't have to do a farking thing on that Sunday to let people vote. They tried to do something above and beyond what was required, and failed at that. Not the same as actually screwing up at what you're required to do, in fact the very heart of what you're there to do: count the votes.


Yeah, except that Broward county's supervisor got the smackdown from a federal judge for refusing to open up to accept in-person absentees. So yeah, that was part of the job and Miami-Dade farked it up by announcing they were doing it but then not bringing in nearly enough people to handle the lines, opening up, locking the doors an hour later, and just in general being incompetent about the whole thing.
 
2012-11-18 07:52:01 PM  

FloydA: Now Republicans will claim that Murphy demanded recount after recount after recount until he finally won. This will happen, I guarantee it.


Well, it could be said that all they had to do was stall, delay, and stall until the deadline passed.
 
2012-11-18 07:55:42 PM  
Things like makes me glad that I'm from Kansas. At least we KNOW the elections are going to go red and we don't have to hear these dildo's names. It will be fun to watch Texas in a few election cycles if like they predict it going blue. That will be awesome.
 
2012-11-18 08:05:03 PM  

PlasticMoby: fusillade762: Like having a gun fired next to your head.

.......*Sigh*.


*that'sthejoke.gif*?
 
2012-11-18 08:07:18 PM  

rynthetyn:

Yeah, except that Broward county's supervisor got the smackdown from a federal judge for refusing to open up to accept in-person absentees.


I know there was a lawsuit filed asking a judge to do that, but I'm not sure the plaintiffs won. Do you have a cite? I'm thinking you're actually thinking of Orange County. They screwed up early voting by not being open when they should, so the judge ordered them to allow early voting on Sunday.


So yeah, that was part of the job

No, not in Miami Dade, they were not under a court order to do this

and Miami-Dade farked it up by announcing they were doing it but then not bringing in nearly enough people to handle the lines, opening up, locking the doors an hour later, and just in general being incompetent about the whole thing.

Actually what they did was close the office and then open it back up an hour later. Yes, they should have had more people (and, more importantly, more than one printer to print out ballots).

But screwing up in how you allow in-person absentee voting - in essence, trying to add an extra early voting day and not doing it well - is not on par with double counting some ballots, not counting others at all, and then being unable to fix the mess because you can't figure out how to turn the alarm system off, and therefore can't work late. That's a whole other level of screw-up, because its your core activity, and one you're prepared to do every election. Unlike in-person absentee balloting, which is a non-core activity and had never been done before in that county.
 
2012-11-18 08:13:53 PM  
media.cmgdigital.com 

Whar true vote?
whar?
\o/
|
/\
 
2012-11-18 08:18:06 PM  
Fooled you Westy. That was a mock recount.
 
2012-11-18 08:23:37 PM  

Flaming Yawn: As a "glass half empty" kind of guy I am still dismayed that this kind of scumbag gets 50% of the votes from ANY kind of electorate


Yes, that is somewhat disheartening and doesn't speak well of voters who would cast a ballot based purely on partisan politics for someone so blatantly unprepared for and undeserving of the job of representative as convicted war criminal Allen West.

I'd rather have seen a wholesale rejection of Tea Party extremism here as well, of course, but I will take a narrow squeaky win over the forces of derp any time and call it a good day.
 
2012-11-18 08:25:20 PM  

jso2897: realmolo: jso2897: MooseUpNorth: I don't like this. There should never be a time limit on an official recount. Elections are too important to do anything but account for every goddamn ballot. Anything less is undemocratic.

That's what I said. In 2000.

The problem with that is, you'd have the loser ENDLESSLY claiming there were more votes that hadn't been counted yet. How would you know when to stop? Would you keep the election undecided until EVERY registered voter had been accounted for? How would you do that? Have another vote, and require every registered voter to show up?

It's just not practical.

This is true, too - there has to be SOME cutoff point.


Most states have such laws. What happened in 2000 in Florida is that they'd just changed the recount system, it had just gone into effect that year, and hadn't been tested or challenged yet as to when exactly the cutoff deadline was. That was why it went to the Florida Supreme Court, and why the US Supreme Court was able to get its meddling fingers into the pie. Most states have laws in place that say absentee ballots must be in by so many days before the election and late ballots have to be counted by so many days after, and recount challenges have to be filed by certain days. Miss a deadline and that's it. As happened here to West (ha ha).

If there's an ambiguity in the law--which happened in Florida in 2000--then it has to go before the courts. Usually as in anything lawyers do, there's some kind of ambiguity, and usually there's no major issue, because the problem will occur in some small local election of a water board commissioner or somesuch and nobody cares. In 2000, it happened that it was a Presidential election. There really needs to be a Federal law that says during national elections, any new law is rendered moot and the last law in place is used; but that hasn't happened yet.
 
2012-11-18 08:25:23 PM  
It's established precedent in Florida that after a week, votes don't count.

Old news
 
2012-11-18 08:38:50 PM  

EnviroDude: FloydA: Now Republicans will claim that Murphy demanded recount after recount after recount until he finally won. This will happen, I guarantee it.

Well, it could be said that all they had to do was stall, delay, and stall until the deadline passed.


And I'm sure it will be said.
 
2012-11-18 08:39:17 PM  

RexTalionis: For no reason, here's me with Cornel West.


Hey, you look just like the drawring in yer profile.
 
2012-11-18 08:42:36 PM  

MooseUpNorth: I don't like this. There should never be a time limit on an official recount. Elections are too important to do anything but account for every goddamn ballot. Anything less is undemocratic.


See 'Franken, Al'
 
2012-11-18 08:52:44 PM  

EnviroDude: FloydA: Now Republicans will claim that Murphy demanded recount after recount after recount until he finally won. This will happen, I guarantee it.

Well, it could be said that all they had to do was stall, delay, and stall until the deadline passed.


Except for the unfortunate fact that "they", we'll...didn't.

But if you must insist, please be my guest.
 
2012-11-18 08:57:09 PM  

bizzwire: EnviroDude: FloydA: Now Republicans will claim that Murphy demanded recount after recount after recount until he finally won. This will happen, I guarantee it.

Well, it could be said that all they had to do was stall, delay, and stall until the deadline passed.

Except for the unfortunate fact that "they", we'll...didn't.

But if you must insist, please be my guest.


He didn't say they did. He just said it could be said that they did, And he's right - it can, and will be said.
 
2012-11-18 08:59:43 PM  

MisterRonbo: rynthetyn:

Yeah, except that Broward county's supervisor got the smackdown from a federal judge for refusing to open up to accept in-person absentees.

I know there was a lawsuit filed asking a judge to do that, but I'm not sure the plaintiffs won. Do you have a cite? I'm thinking you're actually thinking of Orange County. They screwed up early voting by not being open when they should, so the judge ordered them to allow early voting on Sunday.


So yeah, that was part of the job

No, not in Miami Dade, they were not under a court order to do this

and Miami-Dade farked it up by announcing they were doing it but then not bringing in nearly enough people to handle the lines, opening up, locking the doors an hour later, and just in general being incompetent about the whole thing.

Actually what they did was close the office and then open it back up an hour later. Yes, they should have had more people (and, more importantly, more than one printer to print out ballots).

But screwing up in how you allow in-person absentee voting - in essence, trying to add an extra early voting day and not doing it well - is not on par with double counting some ballots, not counting others at all, and then being unable to fix the mess because you can't figure out how to turn the alarm system off, and therefore can't work late. That's a whole other level of screw-up, because its your core activity, and one you're prepared to do every election. Unlike in-person absentee balloting, which is a non-core activity and had never been done before in that county.


Orange County is a totally different thing. I don't have a cite on the Broward thing because I don't know if it actually was reported on, but I heard it on the Obama campaign's voter protection conference call directly from the lawyer who took it to court. They didn't have to go to court in Miami-Dade or West Palm because they agreed to do it without a federal lawsuit being filed, but Broward's supervisor refused, a suit was filed by the Obama campaign, and the federal judge lectured the supervisor about refusing to open up.

Bottom line is that Miami-Dade could have run the election a lot better than they did, and their fark ups with not having enough people working the polls to the point that there were people still standing in line to vote several hours AFTER the election had been called for Obama is as much on the supervisor for not hiring enough people to staff the polls as it is on Rick Scott's shenanigans.
 
2012-11-18 09:02:44 PM  

DubyaHater: One more dirty TeaBagger getting the axe. Sounds great to me. Enjoy the circle jerk at Fox News Mr. West.


Is Juan Williams planning to retire?

Because Roger Ailes doesn't need two tokens.
 
2012-11-18 09:06:46 PM  

realmolo: Would you keep the election undecided until EVERY registered voter had been accounted for?


*shrug* We manage to do it with paper ballots and stubby pencils.
 
2012-11-18 09:14:24 PM  

fusillade762: *that'sthejoke.gif*?


Yup.
 
2012-11-18 09:15:15 PM  

Gyrfalcon: There really needs to be a Federal law that says during national elections, any new law is rendered moot and the last law in place is used; but that hasn't happened yet.


Trivial loophole. Pass desired law, wait a day, then pass law to sacrifice to the feds.

btw, Resort to the courts during an election is codified in the Florida Statutes

example FL 102.168
 
2012-11-18 09:16:54 PM  
Maybe if they invested more in education in Florida they would be able to count in situations such as these.
 
2012-11-18 09:20:46 PM  

MisterRonbo: DubyaHater: One more dirty TeaBagger getting the axe. Sounds great to me. Enjoy the circle jerk at Fox News Mr. West.

Is Juan Williams planning to retire?

Because Roger Ailes doesn't need two tokens.


Why not? Maybe having two minorities will draw in black voters, whom the republicans are so desperately trying to pander to at this moment.
 
2012-11-18 09:26:23 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: WTF is up with Florida? Do the rest of us have to go down there and teach you mofos how to goddamn COUNT?


Did Jesus need to count? NO!
 
2012-11-18 09:27:20 PM  
Every vote should count - no dispute here. I really believe that.

Palm Beach once again shows the country how bad elections can be -- I agree that having this as an elected role is a bad plan, why can't the folks that tally votes for the Music / Movie awards be called in? They keep the results quiet until all the votes are counted and can more efficiently conduct recounts without skin in the game. (I know this sounds crazy, but it's got to be better than what PBC has now.)

I am wondering why as they approached 10pm Saturday night they didn't escalate that they needed more time to count (the deadline wasn't a surprise and neither was the timed security alarm) - and even call in more resources to get the job done. This is not an issue that should be R or D or I (or other party) - this is an issue that should call for all hands on deck to resolve.

As a result, Mr. West now has a claim that there is fraud - which should not be allowed. Mr. Murphy should support that and their should be a 3rd party recount (which I think is what happens now, unless my memory of 2000 is bad). It's clearly a close vote and while neither side may be pleased in the end, it's better to have fair elections than clouds of doubt.
 
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