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(Salon)   "I knew Amazon was evil and is killing bookstores. Then, I got a Kindle...and suddenly, I loved Amazon"   (salon.com) divider line 220
    More: Obvious, Amazon, Kindle  
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9319 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Nov 2012 at 1:03 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



220 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-11-18 10:46:55 AM  
FTFA: This drives many independent bookstores-which rely on profits to stay afloat-out of business, taking with them the entire culture of book buying I value

Businesses rely on profits to stay afloat? You don't say!
 
2012-11-18 10:55:44 AM  

Arthur Jumbles: FTFA: This drives many independent bookstores-which rely on profits to stay afloat-out of business, taking with them the entire culture of book buying I value

Businesses rely on profits to stay afloat? You don't say!


Oh, wow. I was just coming in here to gripe about that sentence.
 
2012-11-18 11:01:34 AM  
E-ink is what matters.

Not nook, or Kindle (Nook person myself)

E-Ink means massive portability and reading on the go.

I love books, and always will... Will E-Ink Kill books? fark no.

But it will mean there will be less printed books in the future, rather then doing a run of 100,000. It will be a print run of half that. There will likely always be printed books.

Now, E-Ink Books need to start coming down in price. 14.99 for a new E-book on release because the hardcover is 16.... fark you, I'll pirate it, or just wait for the paper back price at least.

Publishers are again. clueless much like music labels, and Movie industry are.
 
2012-11-18 11:17:51 AM  

Shostie: Arthur Jumbles: FTFA: This drives many independent bookstores-which rely on profits to stay afloat-out of business, taking with them the entire culture of book buying I value

Businesses rely on profits to stay afloat? You don't say!

Oh, wow. I was just coming in here to gripe about that sentence.


The government should step in and provide this profit thingy so they can continue to provide their valuable services.
 
2012-11-18 11:19:34 AM  
I love my Kindle. I find it easier on my eyes than books, and much more convenient.

But for the love of Guttenberg, how hard could it be to run a spell checker on Kindle files?
 
2012-11-18 11:27:56 AM  

mr_a: I love my Kindle. I find it easier on my eyes than books, and much more convenient.

But for the love of Guttenberg, how hard could it be to run a spell checker on Kindle files?


A lot of Kindle books are crap. Poorly written, poorly edited, poorly formatted. That's the tragedy of removing the gatekeeper.

However, if you sample liberally before you buy, you can usually avoid the stinkers. As an author myself , I'll sample any book I see. I just send them to my phone and see what I'm dealing with. I've found some really excellent books for really cheap; you just have to have the patience to discard 80% of what you sample in order to find the gems.
 
2012-11-18 11:28:04 AM  

Arthur Jumbles: FTFA: This drives many independent bookstores-which rely on profits to stay afloat-out of business, taking with them the entire culture of book buying I value

Businesses rely on profits to stay afloat? You don't say!


Unless they're too big to fail, of course.
 
2012-11-18 11:29:24 AM  
I've read a few books on my iPad, but I really just can't stay focused on them. Maybe it's what I've read, but I find it much easier to sit and plow through 100 pages of a bound book than an e-book.
 
2012-11-18 11:30:10 AM  
For you E-Reader Folks, if you don't have Calibre on your PC you are doing yourself a great disservice.


One of the Simple and best things Calibre does for me is to convert just about anything into Epub for my Nook. Texts, Docs, PDFs, etc...
It can also convert entire Comic book reader files into Epub so I can now read comics and manga on my nook.


http://calibre-ebook.com/ 

http://calibre-ebook.com/about
 
2012-11-18 11:32:55 AM  

kronicfeld: I've read a few books on my iPad, but I really just can't stay focused on them. Maybe it's what I've read, but I find it much easier to sit and plow through 100 pages of a bound book than an e-book.


Ipad, huh? Well there is your problem friend.

E-Ink is different from LCD Tech. Its far easier on the eyes. I cant read long bits of texts on my PC, or Phone, but on my nook, not a problem.
 
2012-11-18 11:36:00 AM  
I still buy hardcovers, but damn do I love my Kindle Fire. It is, as mr_a said, easier to read than a regular book. And I find myself reading books a lot quicker on the Kindle than I did when I was holding a book. I didn't think I was going to like it, so when my parents got me one last year for Christmas, I was hesitant. Now that thing is one of the most important pieces of electronics in my home. My wife also uses it to read, and I'll eventually get her her own (or get myself a new HD).
 
2012-11-18 11:55:00 AM  

Shostie: Arthur Jumbles: FTFA: This drives many independent bookstores-which rely on profits to stay afloat-out of business, taking with them the entire culture of book buying I value

Businesses rely on profits to stay afloat? You don't say!

Oh, wow. I was just coming in here to gripe about that sentence.


Guys, he was countering the assumption that Amazon doesn't rely on profits when it sells books at a loss, which gives it an unfair advantage in the book selling game.
 
2012-11-18 11:56:43 AM  
The fact that I no longer have to waste time flipping pages with my Kindle has meant that my reading speed is dramatically quicker.
 
2012-11-18 12:05:20 PM  

kronicfeld: I've read a few books on my iPad, but I really just can't stay focused on them. Maybe it's what I've read, but I find it much easier to sit and plow through 100 pages of a bound book than an e-book.


Same here. I bought a 7-inch tablet thinking I'd read a lot more books. Meh. Here I am surfing Fark with it. I'd much rather read a paperback.
 
2012-11-18 12:30:14 PM  
See, I can't throw support behind a device that will allow someone to delete books I paid for on a whim.

No one will be deleting my paperback copy of a novel because some bullshiat terms of service changed or a licensing agreement ran out.
 
2012-11-18 12:31:32 PM  

Raharu: Publishers are again. clueless much like music labels, and Movie industry are.


Not all publishers. Many small publishers have a handle on this.

/ Owns a publishing company.

// All our ebooks are $4.99
 
2012-11-18 12:40:41 PM  
I honestly prefer the Kindle App on my iPad to my actual Kindle.
 
2012-11-18 12:40:51 PM  
Screw the "independent book stores!" Everyone forgets that they did the same damn thing to us...

SIgned,

A former independent cuneiform store owner.
 
2012-11-18 12:43:02 PM  

alkhemy: Raharu: Publishers are again. clueless much like music labels, and Movie industry are.

Not all publishers. Many small publishers have a handle on this.

/ Owns a publishing company.

// All our ebooks are $4.99


Links please! I love affordable Ebooks!


Baen is another company that knows how this ebook think should work, they also have affordable prices
 
2012-11-18 01:01:47 PM  
Something's missing

www.mimifroufrou.com
 
2012-11-18 01:12:02 PM  
I still prefer my media in the form of stone tablets, so I'm a part of the problem.
 
2012-11-18 01:12:46 PM  
Disclosure: I manage a used book store that's perpetually on the verge of going out of business.

Amazon is not why bookstores go out of business. Mismanagement of bookstores and the idiocy of the US publishing industry are among the top reasons that bookstores go out of business. Amazon is terrible in many, many, many ways, as anyone bright who shops with them frequently will notice, but that's beside the point. And they stay in business because they're very convenient and have few real competitors.

Ebooks are also not why bookstores go out of business. That said, current e-readers are terrible -- their design is driven by marketing crap, not technology or usability, and consumers will continue to get stuck with crap readers if they never hold out for something better. In fact, the trend that seems likely is that tablet computers will eat the reader market whole, and a few years from now you'll be slightly embarrassed to admit that you shelled out actual money for a Nook or Kindle.

I never liked Steve Jobs, but if he were still alive very few people would be buying a Nook or Kindle. Or paying as much as $5 for a typical ebook. I'm just saying.
 
2012-11-18 01:13:08 PM  
I love my Kindle 2. It's invaluable on trips. I also love that it isn't an LCD screen, I can read in direct sunlight, and I don't have screen flicker to worry about either. I just wish the PDF support was better.
 
2012-11-18 01:14:27 PM  

RandomAxe: Disclosure: I manage a used book store that's perpetually on the verge of going out of business.

Amazon is not why bookstores go out of business. Mismanagement of bookstores and the idiocy of the US publishing industry are among the top reasons that bookstores go out of business. Amazon is terrible in many, many, many ways, as anyone bright who shops with them frequently will notice, but that's beside the point. And they stay in business because they're very convenient and have few real competitors.

Ebooks are also not why bookstores go out of business. That said, current e-readers are terrible -- their design is driven by marketing crap, not technology or usability, and consumers will continue to get stuck with crap readers if they never hold out for something better. In fact, the trend that seems likely is that tablet computers will eat the reader market whole, and a few years from now you'll be slightly embarrassed to admit that you shelled out actual money for a Nook or Kindle.

I never liked Steve Jobs, but if he were still alive very few people would be buying a Nook or Kindle. Or paying as much as $5 for a typical ebook. I'm just saying.


I disagree, I have no interest in a tablet, I have a laptop with a real keyboard and that I can hook a real mouse into. I also don't want to read long things on anything that's backlit, it sucks.
 
2012-11-18 01:16:26 PM  
I disagree, I have no interest in a tablet

I also have no interest in a tablet, but I still think the tablet market will swallow up the reader market.
 
2012-11-18 01:16:31 PM  
Meh, I like my kindle for traveling or for $2 novels, but there's nothing like sitting down with a real book at night. They're two totally different experiences; like listening to music on MP3 and live in concert. I pay city taxes of around $100 a year towards the public library, and if i bought every book I borrowed from them I'd be spending easy five times that on books, most of which you only read once. They both have a place, and they both have pros and cons.
 
2012-11-18 01:17:02 PM  

DamnYankees: I honestly prefer the Kindle App on my iPad to my actual Kindle.


Me, too except for the lack of folders.
 
2012-11-18 01:17:55 PM  
For that matter, I should add that far superior e-ink technology has existed for well over a decade now. Commercially available readers are really crappy. Never mind that they ought to be full computers; their displays should be capable of very nice full-motion video, and at about the same price point.
 
2012-11-18 01:18:42 PM  

RandomAxe: Disclosure: I manage a used book store that's perpetually on the verge of going out of business.

Amazon is not why bookstores go out of business. Mismanagement of bookstores and the idiocy of the US publishing industry are among the top reasons that bookstores go out of business. Amazon is terrible in many, many, many ways, as anyone bright who shops with them frequently will notice, but that's beside the point. And they stay in business because they're very convenient and have few real competitors.

Ebooks are also not why bookstores go out of business. That said, current e-readers are terrible -- their design is driven by marketing crap, not technology or usability, and consumers will continue to get stuck with crap readers if they never hold out for something better. In fact, the trend that seems likely is that tablet computers will eat the reader market whole, and a few years from now you'll be slightly embarrassed to admit that you shelled out actual money for a Nook or Kindle.

I never liked Steve Jobs, but if he were still alive very few people would be buying a Nook or Kindle. Or paying as much as $5 for a typical ebook. I'm just saying.


You're right - we would all be paying $12.99 for a book from Apple's bookstore then a few years later, an additional $2.99 to make it DRM free.
 
2012-11-18 01:19:49 PM  

Girion47: I disagree, I have no interest in a tablet, I have a laptop with a real keyboard and that I can hook a real mouse into. I also don't want to read long things on anything that's backlit, it sucks.


This.

E-Ink is easy on the eyes, and color is around the corner.
 
2012-11-18 01:19:54 PM  
I have a nook, but I still prefer real paper books. eBook prices are far too high, oftentimes very close to the price of a real physical book.

My preference overall is still the library. I can just log onto my county library site, request the book I want, and depending on if it has to be transported from another branch or not, walk in anytime from an hour to three days later to pick it up at the counter, all for free. It's a beautiful thing.
 
2012-11-18 01:21:00 PM  
Kindle is a fantastic device as far as I m concerned. At any moment of the day when boredom strikes I need merely ease out my kindle from my butt pocket and nearly 1,000 books are within the reach of my stubby digits. Love it, even have a special plastic bag to allow bath time reading.
As for paying amazon their exorbitant prices, a few moments perusing any decent torrent site and you can have all the books your heart desires, scott free, aaarrrrrrggggghhh a pirates life for me.
 
2012-11-18 01:21:25 PM  
I predict that when they finally develop the Orgasmatron, the publishing and motion picture industries will be given last rites.
 
2012-11-18 01:21:51 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: I have a nook, but I still prefer real paper books. eBook prices are far too high, oftentimes very close to the price of a real physical book.

My preference overall is still the library. I can just log onto my county library site, request the book I want, and depending on if it has to be transported from another branch or not, walk in anytime from an hour to three days later to pick it up at the counter, all for free. It's a beautiful thing.


I do the same thing, with my Nook. Most Libraries are also featuring Epub copies of books.
 
2012-11-18 01:21:51 PM  
FTA: Is Amazon the lessor of these two evils?

You call yourself a writer???
 
2012-11-18 01:22:10 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: I have a nook, but I still prefer real paper books. eBook prices are far too high, oftentimes very close to the price of a real physical book.

My preference overall is still the library. I can just log onto my county library site, request the book I want, and depending on if it has to be transported from another branch or not, walk in anytime from an hour to three days later to pick it up at the counter, all for free. It's a beautiful thing.


That's why I pirate. The only problem is getting files converted to work on my Kindle in a format I can read it. Even harder is getting the file names to be searchable on the Kindle menu. If it's part of a series I've found I'll have 3-5 files that all start the same and I can't tell the book unless I open it and back out.
 
2012-11-18 01:22:34 PM  

Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener: I still prefer my media in the form of stone tablets, so I'm a part of the problem.


Pipe down, Moses.
 
2012-11-18 01:23:58 PM  
Anybody have informed opinions of the Kobo ereader?

I hate the way Kindle is chained to Amazon content. Yes, I know there are workarounds. But the average user has no idea how that stuff works and always pays the Amazon premium.

My local independent bookstore is offering Kobo books, and I will always buy from them if possible.
 
2012-11-18 01:23:59 PM  

Girion47: TuteTibiImperes: I have a nook, but I still prefer real paper books. eBook prices are far too high, oftentimes very close to the price of a real physical book.

My preference overall is still the library. I can just log onto my county library site, request the book I want, and depending on if it has to be transported from another branch or not, walk in anytime from an hour to three days later to pick it up at the counter, all for free. It's a beautiful thing.

That's why I pirate. The only problem is getting files converted to work on my Kindle in a format I can read it. Even harder is getting the file names to be searchable on the Kindle menu. If it's part of a series I've found I'll have 3-5 files that all start the same and I can't tell the book unless I open it and back out.


Calibre.
http://calibre-ebook.com/
http://calibre-ebook.com/
http://calibre-ebook.com/
 
2012-11-18 01:24:10 PM  
buttcat: You're right - we would all be paying $12.99 for a book from Apple's bookstore then a few years later, an additional $2.99 to make it DRM free.

Well, it's optimistic of me, but I think that competition and greed would keep the ebook prices lower.

On the other hand, I don't believe you'd be able to actually own the ebooks, so I don't think there'd be that DRM-free option. My guess is that we'd have switched to a system where you explicitly lease access to the content for a set time (a year or less, most likely) and then have to 'buy' it all over again if you want it again or for longer. A prostitute's a prostitute, after all.
 
2012-11-18 01:24:54 PM  
We are still in the infancy of digital content. The large publishers are still holding most of the cards. Amazon is actually one of the better ones as individuals can sell their own books without a publishing contract.
 
2012-11-18 01:24:56 PM  
Kill the "new book"s stores,
and save the used books stores.
 
2012-11-18 01:25:22 PM  

jaytkay: Anybody have informed opinions of the Kobo ereader?

I hate the way Kindle is chained to Amazon content. Yes, I know there are workarounds. But the average user has no idea how that stuff works and always pays the Amazon premium.

My local independent bookstore is offering Kobo books, and I will always buy from them if possible.


Kobo is not bad but its not great either.

Go Nook, It reads Epub (Which is the universal standard everyone but amazon uses). You can use the B&N, Pirate, or other Ebook stores, like Baen and such.

Also did I mention Calibre... I think I may have.
 
2012-11-18 01:26:35 PM  
Meanwhile, I'm stuck in the past because I'd rather not throw down a hundred or so on an e-reader for the privilege of then renting books at full price.
 
2012-11-18 01:27:32 PM  

mr_a: I love my Kindle. I find it easier on my eyes than books, and much more convenient.

But for the love of Guttenberg, how hard could it be to run a spell checker on Kindle files?


I recently bought "The Picture of Dorian Gray" from Google Play. In the book his name is continuously misspelled as Dorian Cray, among other mistakes in the text. Google would not refund my money.
 
2012-11-18 01:28:16 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: I have a nook, but I still prefer real paper books. eBook prices are far too high, oftentimes very close to the price of a real physical book.

My preference overall is still the library. I can just log onto my county library site, request the book I want, and depending on if it has to be transported from another branch or not, walk in anytime from an hour to three days later to pick it up at the counter, all for free. It's a beautiful thing.


My library has ebook lending capability.
 
2012-11-18 01:28:16 PM  

Raharu: TuteTibiImperes: I have a nook, but I still prefer real paper books. eBook prices are far too high, oftentimes very close to the price of a real physical book.

My preference overall is still the library. I can just log onto my county library site, request the book I want, and depending on if it has to be transported from another branch or not, walk in anytime from an hour to three days later to pick it up at the counter, all for free. It's a beautiful thing.

I do the same thing, with my Nook. Most Libraries are also featuring Epub copies of books.


Mine does as well, and if the ePub is the only copy available, I'll take it, but I still prefer real physical books to using the ereader.

I've found the trick is to request the next book I want about a week before I finish reading the one I'm on, that way I don't actually have to wait in case they need to do an ILL to get the new book.
 
2012-11-18 01:28:20 PM  
All_Farked_Up: Amazon is actually one of the better ones as individuals can sell their own books without a publishing contract.

Yes, but this is ridiculous on its face. You ought to be able to buy content directly from the individuals, online, or through any licensed third-party merchant. Piracy is obviously an issue, but proprietary formats that consumers are slaved to are bullshiat. Kindle owners, for instance, generally don't realize how they've tied their genitals to Amazon until Amazon decides to drive off in a huff.
 
2012-11-18 01:30:06 PM  

Arthur Jumbles: FTFA: This drives many independent bookstores-which rely on profits to stay afloat-out of business, taking with them the entire culture of book buying I value

Businesses rely on profits to stay afloat? You don't say!


Normally I would complain about that, too, but the author's argument is that Amazon can afford to sell hardcopy books at a loss in order to drive brick-and-mortar competition out of business. In this case, the statement that the independent booksellers need to sell at a profit is a relevant distinction.
 
2012-11-18 01:30:13 PM  
The only real problem, to my mind, is the fact that as electronics squish older things (like books) into tiny reservations of decoration and collection they contribute (in a tiny, tiny way) to the problem we still haven't solved. I.e. energy economics.

We're still burning extra-finite resources to power this stuff and we don't have controllable fusion or widespread green.

Though from what I understand a lot of e-readers could probably run on little tiny solar panels as well as those cheap-o solar powered calculators do.
 
2012-11-18 01:30:31 PM  
Are authors even killing widows and orphans anymore? I have a Nook and love it, but... some books just *have* to be printed page books. Samuel Delany's Dhalgren, for example, which requires a lot of flipping back and forth, e.e. cummings poetry. I'd hate to see what an e-reader would do to that.
 
2012-11-18 01:30:35 PM  

Raharu: Girion47: I disagree, I have no interest in a tablet, I have a laptop with a real keyboard and that I can hook a real mouse into. I also don't want to read long things on anything that's backlit, it sucks.

This.

E-Ink is easy on the eyes, and color is around the corner.


The greatly improved resolutions on the LCD tablets has really started to take away this advantage from e-ink, though. The problem with reading on something like an iPad without the Retina Display, or even the first-gen Kindle Fire, was that the text could be a little fuzzy. That's been taken care of.
 
2012-11-18 01:32:19 PM  
My hierarchy has remained unchanged:
1) Used-book stores
2) Amazon
3) Independent book stores
4) Chain book stores

I suppose if I were into E-readers, I might bump Amazon up. But I really like combing through used books and finding little gems tucked into the shelves. I found an anthology of quasi-science essays from Analog magazine at a used-book store for $6 and it was a terrific read. Just got a copy of How to Lie With Statistics for $4. The esoteric collection at a used-book store is great.
 
2012-11-18 01:32:29 PM  

Raharu: Girion47: TuteTibiImperes: I have a nook, but I still prefer real paper books. eBook prices are far too high, oftentimes very close to the price of a real physical book.

My preference overall is still the library. I can just log onto my county library site, request the book I want, and depending on if it has to be transported from another branch or not, walk in anytime from an hour to three days later to pick it up at the counter, all for free. It's a beautiful thing.

That's why I pirate. The only problem is getting files converted to work on my Kindle in a format I can read it. Even harder is getting the file names to be searchable on the Kindle menu. If it's part of a series I've found I'll have 3-5 files that all start the same and I can't tell the book unless I open it and back out.

Calibre.
http://calibre-ebook.com/
http://calibre-ebook.com/
http://calibre-ebook.com/


Maybe I haven't mastered Calibre, but I'm still unhappy with how it's acting on my Kindle 2.
 
2012-11-18 01:33:10 PM  
Gutenberg Project has an amazing collection of copyright free books in various formats.

http://www.gutenberg.org/
 
2012-11-18 01:35:36 PM  
Maybe if the author spent more time reading the contents than fetishizing the medium, he wouldn't have this moral dilemma. But that might be too compicated for someone so intellectually lazy that he just assumes "big company == bad".
 
2012-11-18 01:37:05 PM  
I work at Barnes and Noble. I used to work at Borders.

Want an e-reader? buy a nook. They are better, and will maybe let me keep my job. maybe.
 
2012-11-18 01:37:07 PM  

skinink: mr_a: I love my Kindle. I find it easier on my eyes than books, and much more convenient.

But for the love of Guttenberg, how hard could it be to run a spell checker on Kindle files?

I recently bought "The Picture of Dorian Gray" from Google Play. In the book his name is continuously misspelled as Dorian Cray, among other mistakes in the text. Google would not refund my money.


The Picture of Dorian Gray is free on Kindle and also spelled correctly. Pretty much all of the 'classics' are available on Kindle for free.

I don't get why a few people in here say ereaders are 'crappy'. What more do you want from them? To me an ereader should have A. eink screen B. a bookstore C. Books. My Kindle does all of those things perfectly, there is nothing I can think of to improve it other than make it cheaper. It shouldn't be a full computer, we have tablets or laptops for that.
 
2012-11-18 01:37:08 PM  

HempHead: Gutenberg Project has an amazing collection of copyright free books in various formats.

http://www.gutenberg.org/


I used to read that when I did tech support at an ISP. I got in trouble once because a call on which I was reading Count of Monte Cristo was reviewed. Had the dude fixed in 2 minutes(goal time is 4) and my supervisor tried to destroy me. That and a few other incidents my team and I were able to get her fired for being a racist, sexist, biatch.
 
2012-11-18 01:38:22 PM  

Kimpak: skinink: mr_a: I love my Kindle. I find it easier on my eyes than books, and much more convenient.

But for the love of Guttenberg, how hard could it be to run a spell checker on Kindle files?

I recently bought "The Picture of Dorian Gray" from Google Play. In the book his name is continuously misspelled as Dorian Cray, among other mistakes in the text. Google would not refund my money.

The Picture of Dorian Gray is free on Kindle and also spelled correctly. Pretty much all of the 'classics' are available on Kindle for free.

I don't get why a few people in here say ereaders are 'crappy'. What more do you want from them? To me an ereader should have A. eink screen B. a bookstore C. Books. My Kindle does all of those things perfectly, there is nothing I can think of to improve it other than make it cheaper. It shouldn't be a full computer, we have tablets or laptops for that.


I think it's mind-boggling for some people that you have a battery-powered device that can't play Angry Birds or have an Apple logo on it.
 
dh2
2012-11-18 01:39:04 PM  
Trailing edge for me:
-Sony PRS-505 Reader for $50 on eBay with 6" E-ink display and memory card expansion,
-Calibre, to store, organize and convert formats.
No bells, whistles or lock-in.
 
2012-11-18 01:39:10 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Arthur Jumbles: FTFA: This drives many independent bookstores-which rely on profits to stay afloat-out of business, taking with them the entire culture of book buying I value

Businesses rely on profits to stay afloat? You don't say!

Unless they're too big to fail, of course.


In which case Obama gives them trillions of his dollars. Oops, I meant our tax dollars. Print that money!
 
2012-11-18 01:39:34 PM  
People still read? I guess they haven't heard of books on tape. Sure, a box of 20 tapes may be a little bit bigger than a paperback, but you can absorb an entire book with your hands free. Besides, I only really need to carry around one tape in my walkman and the next sequential tape. When I'm rollerblading around the park it's unlikely that I'll get farther than that.
 
2012-11-18 01:41:11 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay:
I suppose if I were into E-readers, I might bump Amazon up. But I really like combing through used books and finding little gems tucked into the shelves. I found an anthology of quasi-science essays from Analog magazine at a used-book store for $6 and it was a terrific read. Just got a copy of How to Lie With Statistics for $4. The esoteric collection at a used-book store is great.


Not sure about the first one since a title isn't provided, but the second is available in e-format on Amazon. Understandable that sometimes you don't know what you want until you see it, but you can't really consider it a fault of Amazon. Especially when they have a browse feature.
 
2012-11-18 01:42:03 PM  
Raharu - thank you for that link. My husband got a free Kindle at work and ended up giving it to me since he never used it. I have about 25 books in .rtf that I bought when Baen publishing opened their entire backlog for purchase a la 'Humble Bundle' pricing. Amazon of course won't let me just transfer them over, I have to send each one separately to be converted or some horse-shiat. Hence why I haven't gotten around to it yet.

That link looks like a god-send.

As to e-readers, I still like actual books better - because Amazon can't reach into my library and revoke the license. I only get either stuff like the .rtf files, or things that are in public domain on it. Since I haven't read a lot of old literature, there's a huge catalog of stuff I'd like to read that's perfectly free, and that works for me. I'm certainly not going to re-purchase any books I already bought once in dead tree edition, that's just stupid if you ask me (not that anyone ever does).

Yeah they're a pain when I move, but it's worth it, I think.
 
2012-11-18 01:42:05 PM  

Girion47: TuteTibiImperes: I have a nook, but I still prefer real paper books. eBook prices are far too high, oftentimes very close to the price of a real physical book.

My preference overall is still the library. I can just log onto my county library site, request the book I want, and depending on if it has to be transported from another branch or not, walk in anytime from an hour to three days later to pick it up at the counter, all for free. It's a beautiful thing.

That's why I pirate. The only problem is getting files converted to work on my Kindle in a format I can read it. Even harder is getting the file names to be searchable on the Kindle menu. If it's part of a series I've found I'll have 3-5 files that all start the same and I can't tell the book unless I open it and back out.


As stated somewhere above, calibre. For the files that calibre can't handle get mobipocket creator. It's the original kindle format.
 
2012-11-18 01:42:44 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: See, I can't throw support behind a device that will allow someone to delete books I paid for on a whim.

No one will be deleting my paperback copy of a novel because some bullshiat terms of service changed or a licensing agreement ran out.


Or because you stopped paying a subscription fee
 
2012-11-18 01:42:58 PM  

louiedog: People still read?


This is like being proud of .. well, not reading. There is no analogy here.
 
2012-11-18 01:44:15 PM  

Tourney3p0: louiedog: People still read?

This is like being proud of .. well, not reading. There is no analogy here.


Oh, I get it. Your joke is about people not reading when you clearly didn't read my comment. Very meta of you. I love it.
 
2012-11-18 01:44:24 PM  

Tourney3p0: Not sure about the first one since a title isn't provided, but the second is available in e-format on Amazon. Understandable that sometimes you don't know what you want until you see it, but you can't really consider it a fault of Amazon. Especially when they have a browse feature.


I don't recall blaming Amazon for anything. Used-book stores are great for finding things that went out of print a while ago and aren't likely to have been picked up again, even with the proliferation of E-books. And they tend to be local businesses, which is always nice.

As for E-readers, I just personally don't really care for them.
 
2012-11-18 01:44:51 PM  
I read almost exclusively on my iphone / kindle app. I love it.
 
2012-11-18 01:45:22 PM  

saintwrathchild: Pipe down, Moses.


>:-/

*says something disparaging about the Steve Guttenberg printing press from afar*
 
2012-11-18 01:45:25 PM  
I bought a nook a few months ago. I hate the farking piece of shiat. It displays foreign fonts horribly....and purchasing rare or out of print texts which a lot of Mom and Pop bookstores offer? Forget about it.

The douchey-ness of this writer makes me want to vomit.

/Fark e-books
 
2012-11-18 01:46:52 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Tourney3p0: Not sure about the first one since a title isn't provided, but the second is available in e-format on Amazon. Understandable that sometimes you don't know what you want until you see it, but you can't really consider it a fault of Amazon. Especially when they have a browse feature.

I don't recall blaming Amazon for anything. Used-book stores are great for finding things that went out of print a while ago and aren't likely to have been picked up again, even with the proliferation of E-books. And they tend to be local businesses, which is always nice.

As for E-readers, I just personally don't really care for them.


Have you used one to read an entire book? Every single person I know who said they didn't like the idea of ebooks, but then actually used one to read a book, finally understood. That's just people I personally know. I'm sure there are people who have owned a Kindle and tossed it aside because they just couldn't get into it.
 
2012-11-18 01:47:03 PM  

DoctorCal: FirstNationalBastard: See, I can't throw support behind a device that will allow someone to delete books I paid for on a whim.

No one will be deleting my paperback copy of a novel because some bullshiat terms of service changed or a licensing agreement ran out.

Or because you stopped paying a subscription fee


Or, you could...you know back up the file from your kindle. If amazon pulls the licence you just load the thing back on from your back up and turn wireless off till you finish it.
 
2012-11-18 01:47:16 PM  

louiedog: People still read? I guess they haven't heard of books on tape. Sure, a box of 20 tapes may be a little bit bigger than a paperback, but you can absorb an entire book with your hands free. Besides, I only really need to carry around one tape in my walkman and the next sequential tape. When I'm rollerblading around the park it's unlikely that I'll get farther than that.


The only time I can deal with audio books is when I'm on a long drive. Otherwise I eventually tune it out unless it's a really great story, and sometimes even then. Something about working at the mall all those years, I think. Also I read far more quickly than any audio book can deliver a story, so there's that as well.
 
2012-11-18 01:47:53 PM  

Raharu: For you E-Reader Folks, if you don't have Calibre on your PC you are doing yourself a great disservice.


One of the Simple and best things Calibre does for me is to convert just about anything into Epub for my Nook. Texts, Docs, PDFs, etc...
It can also convert entire Comic book reader files into Epub so I can now read comics and manga on my nook.


http://calibre-ebook.com/ 

http://calibre-ebook.com/about


Right, Raharu, I think we've had this discussion before over that shiatty software. I used it before and it damn near used up all my CPU power for several just to convert an out of print book into a poorly formatted e-text.

Fark E-books!!!
 
2012-11-18 01:47:59 PM  
My daughter gave me a Kindle last Christmas.

1. Games are fun; game$ not so much
2. Web browsing sucks
3. Watching movies and TV is pretty good and the screen size is not a problem
4. Magazines are horrible to read
5. Books? Wonderful if they do good e-book re-formatting.

For what it is, it's great. For what it's not, it obviously sucks.
 
2012-11-18 01:48:20 PM  
I bought a kindle when:

1. Kindle fire came out (books + videos on something I can read/watch in bed, whooo!!)

2. Kindle started working with my local library to offer library loans

3. amazon offered the kindle lending library to prime users/prime videos to kindle users.


Reasons I love my kindle:

All of the above.

reasons I hate my kindle:

The technology is frankly a piece of crap. My asus eeePC cost the same amount of money 2 years before that, and weighed less and was better technology. the OS is a piece of crap. Amazon's app store is crap. half the programs I want to use on it don't work. the browser sucks, half the websites don't load properly. My smartphone works better. I can't even borrow books from my library on it, because the farking browser thinks I'm on a mobile device and only loads the half-assed mobile site. However, I've tried it from an ipad and you CAN use the website to borrow books.

Basically, Amazon, please, you already won me over with all the things kindle does with books/video, please just make me a piece of technology that WORKS.

/no, I'm not rooting my kindle. I'm sorry, I'm just not that tech savvy, however "simple" you think it is
//I have not tried the kindle 2. I don't want to spend money for a new one, and I'm not currently convinced that the new one fixes any of the problems I listed above.
 
2012-11-18 01:48:26 PM  
ANy 'browse feature' in the world won't allow me to find hidden treasures, though. So far my best find has been a first edition of Dune in mint condition...for $13.
 
2012-11-18 01:48:44 PM  

louiedog: Have you used one to read an entire book? Every single person I know who said they didn't like the idea of ebooks, but then actually used one to read a book, finally understood. That's just people I personally know. I'm sure there are people who have owned a Kindle and tossed it aside because they just couldn't get into it.


Yeah, I have. I owned one early on. I'm sure there are plenty of converts, but I'm not one of them. I just don't like them. *shrug*
 
2012-11-18 01:48:58 PM  
Look forward 500 years. Electricity may or may not be plentiful.

Things "written" on computers will be lost. Only things on hard copy would remain, just like we read the ancient grocery lists of our ancestors.

There's something about computer-based creation that makes it less meaningful. Absolutely less permanent.
 
2012-11-18 01:49:18 PM  
I used it before and it damn near used up all my CPU power for several just to convert an out of print book into a poorly formatted e-text.

My fail. That should read "...power for several [hours] just to..."
 
2012-11-18 01:49:28 PM  
Ebooks have a warmer, heavier sound.
 
2012-11-18 01:50:27 PM  
I'm still holding out for color e-ink tablet. When I can do all the things that can be done regular tablet + e-reader, all with an eyeball friendly screen, then I'm sold.
 
2012-11-18 01:51:54 PM  

skinink: mr_a: I love my Kindle. I find it easier on my eyes than books, and much more convenient.

But for the love of Guttenberg, how hard could it be to run a spell checker on Kindle files?

I recently bought "The Picture of Dorian Gray" from Google Play. In the book his name is continuously misspelled as Dorian Cray, among other mistakes in the text. Google would not refund my money.


I recently read a history book which had hundreds of references to that great WWI battle, the "Battle of the Mame". I think it as a Lucille Ball movie.
 
2012-11-18 01:51:59 PM  

louiedog:

Oh, I get it. Your joke is about people not reading when you clearly didn't read my comment. Very meta of you. I love it.


I read it. You think that having someone "read you a story" is the same as reading. It's not. Entirely different parts of the brain get stimulated.

If your goal is just to be entertained, great. No problem there. But in the end, you're still proud of not reading. Sad.
 
2012-11-18 01:53:19 PM  

Katie98_KT: I bought a kindle when:

1. Kindle fire came out (books + videos on something I can read/watch in bed, whooo!!)

2. Kindle started working with my local library to offer library loans

3. amazon offered the kindle lending library to prime users/prime videos to kindle users.


Reasons I love my kindle:

All of the above.

reasons I hate my kindle:

The technology is frankly a piece of crap. My asus eeePC cost the same amount of money 2 years before that, and weighed less and was better technology. the OS is a piece of crap. Amazon's app store is crap. half the programs I want to use on it don't work. the browser sucks, half the websites don't load properly. My smartphone works better. I can't even borrow books from my library on it, because the farking browser thinks I'm on a mobile device and only loads the half-assed mobile site. However, I've tried it from an ipad and you CAN use the website to borrow books.

Basically, Amazon, please, you already won me over with all the things kindle does with books/video, please just make me a piece of technology that WORKS.

/no, I'm not rooting my kindle. I'm sorry, I'm just not that tech savvy, however "simple" you think it is
//I have not tried the kindle 2. I don't want to spend money for a new one, and I'm not currently convinced that the new one fixes any of the problems I listed above.


Sounds like you're looking for a tablet computer, not an ereader. Kindle Fire kinda pisses me off that its trying to be both and doesn't do either very well. I think that if you or anyone would use a regular kindle or even the kindle touch and forget about the fire they'd be much happier.

Buy an ereader to read books.
Buy a tablet to do internetting, YouTubeing etc...
 
2012-11-18 01:53:31 PM  
Oh, and epublishing? Please god get some editors.
 
2012-11-18 01:53:44 PM  

dmax: Look forward 500 years. Electricity may or may not be plentiful.

Things "written" on computers will be lost. Only things on hard copy would remain, just like we read the ancient grocery lists of our ancestors.

There's something about computer-based creation that makes it less meaningful. Absolutely less permanent.


Thank you. I'm tired of the marketing for these substandard products. It seems like the author fell into the who I-Pad mentality, meanwhile books on print get pushed aside.
 
2012-11-18 01:54:44 PM  

Arthur Jumbles: FTFA: This drives many independent bookstores-which rely on profits to stay afloat-out of business, taking with them the entire culture of book buying I value

Businesses rely on profits to stay afloat? You don't say!

Another

one of the evils of Capitalism. They need to nationalize all bookstores! That way, taxpayer-supported bookstores won't have to worry about making profits and can carry thousands of books that otherwise would never be read.

(Well, actually, there would have to be another part of the plan. You would have to require that people BUY the books. Sort of like Obamacare, where you are forced to buy medical insurance.)
 
2012-11-18 01:55:07 PM  
Is Amazon the lessor of these two evils?

You know cupcake, if I'm going to lease two evils those aren't the two I'd pick. I prefer buying my evils wholesale.
 
2012-11-18 01:55:15 PM  

Kimpak: Sounds like you're looking for a tablet computer, not an ereader. Kindle Fire kinda pisses me off that its trying to be both and doesn't do either very well. I think that if you or anyone would use a regular kindle or even the kindle touch and forget about the fire they'd be much happier.

Buy an ereader to read books.
Buy a tablet to do internetting, YouTubeing etc...


No videos on a kindle. and kindle owners lending library with a non-kindle (and I'm pretty sure prime videos only works on kindles too).
 
2012-11-18 01:55:46 PM  

Kimpak: DoctorCal: FirstNationalBastard: See, I can't throw support behind a device that will allow someone to delete books I paid for on a whim.

No one will be deleting my paperback copy of a novel because some bullshiat terms of service changed or a licensing agreement ran out.

Or because you stopped paying a subscription fee

Or, you could...you know back up the file from your kindle. If amazon pulls the licence you just load the thing back on from your back up and turn wireless off till you finish it.


Oh. So....steal it? I don't need a kindle to do that.
 
2012-11-18 01:57:23 PM  
Now that Kindle books are priced at or even above physical book prices, I'll probably just buy physical books going forward.
 
2012-11-18 01:57:26 PM  

RandomAxe: I disagree, I have no interest in a tablet

I also have no interest in a tablet, but I still think the tablet market will swallow up the reader market.


I'm with Alton Brown with this one: I want a "multi-tasker" not a "uni-tasker." For that reason, I prefer my laptop and phone. I have no desire to be an e-reader or tablet.
 
2012-11-18 01:57:38 PM  

Tourney3p0: louiedog:

Oh, I get it. Your joke is about people not reading when you clearly didn't read my comment. Very meta of you. I love it.

I read it. You think that having someone "read you a story" is the same as reading. It's not. Entirely different parts of the brain get stimulated.

If your goal is just to be entertained, great. No problem there. But in the end, you're still proud of not reading. Sad.


You cracked it. My comment about listening to cassettes on a walkman oozed so much pride over not reading that it completely covered the ridiculous of the statement.
 
2012-11-18 02:00:20 PM  

Cyrusv10: dmax: Look forward 500 years. Electricity may or may not be plentiful.

Things "written" on computers will be lost. Only things on hard copy would remain, just like we read the ancient grocery lists of our ancestors.

There's something about computer-based creation that makes it less meaningful. Absolutely less permanent.

Thank you. I'm tired of the marketing for these substandard products. It seems like the author fell into the who I-Pad mentality, meanwhile books on print get pushed aside.


As the article pointed out, there will always be printed books. People will always buy them. ebooks won't kill that. I think that people get this notion in their minds that Kindle's and Nooks etc.. will be the end of the printed book culture and it will be forced underground a la Fahrenheit 451. Personally I think that's a little tinfoil hatty. In my opinion, I think people from now on will have a mix of physical books and ebooks. I like my kindle for when I'm away from home and don't want to risk damaging one of my physical books by lugging it around with me.
 
2012-11-18 02:00:49 PM  

FizixJunkee: I'm with Alton Brown with this one: I want a "multi-tasker" not a "uni-tasker." For that reason, I prefer my laptop and phone. I have no desire to be an e-reader or tablet.


Show me a tablet that I can also use to make my own ravioli, and I'm sold!

/loved his show
//WhyTF is it not on Netflix?
 
2012-11-18 02:02:27 PM  
The Kindle Paperwhite is pretty awesome

/had 3 versions of Kindles now
//have more books than most small libraries
///Kindle != no more books
 
2012-11-18 02:03:25 PM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Another one of the evils of Capitalism. They need to nationalize all bookstores! That way, taxpayer-supported bookstores won't have to worry about making profits and can carry thousands of books that otherwise would never be read.


You mean like... libraries?
 
2012-11-18 02:04:17 PM  
Find all free (or cheap) books in Amazon: eReaderIQ
 
2012-11-18 02:06:16 PM  
I'm gonna log off here and go wank to a Club magazine.
 
2012-11-18 02:07:27 PM  

ladyfortuna: The only time I can deal with audio books is when I'm on a long drive. Otherwise I eventually tune it out unless it's a really great story, and sometimes even then. Something about working at the mall all those years, I think. Also I read far more quickly than any audio book can deliver a story, so there's that as well.


LibreVox does free audio versions of public domain works if you do need one. I'm not a big fan of audiobooks, but when I do need "free" is a really good price point.

Link

Like Project Gutenberg for your ear holes.
 
2012-11-18 02:07:37 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: My hierarchy has remained unchanged:
1) Used-book stores
2) Amazon
3) Independent book stores
4) Chain book stores

I suppose if I were into E-readers, I might bump Amazon up. But I really like combing through used books and finding little gems tucked into the shelves. I found an anthology of quasi-science essays from Analog magazine at a used-book store for $6 and it was a terrific read. Just got a copy of How to Lie With Statistics for $4. The esoteric collection at a used-book store is great.


Agreed.

I used to live in Tucson. Bookmans was my favorite store in town, and I made a point of popping in at least once a week. I found all sorts of cool, used books--fiction and nonfiction--there. For example, I have a copy of the CRC Standard Mathematical Tables that I got for $6. Its integral table and table of Laplace/Fourier transforms are much more extensive than anything I've found online.
 
2012-11-18 02:07:45 PM  
I searched all the local used book stores for a specific out of print book. Several of them would give me a call if they ever got it in.

Ten years later I picked up a Kindle. After a short search I had the book i was looking for.

I've been sold on e-readers since that time.

/I still love the used bookstores
 
2012-11-18 02:08:34 PM  
kiyote: some books just *have* to be printed page books. Samuel Delany's Dhalgren, for example, which requires a lot of flipping back and forth, e.e. cummings poetry. I'd hate to see what an e-reader would do to that.

Yes, but, there's already a markup language specifically made to handle exactly such things brilliantly, and, in fact, it works brilliantly. The concept is called 'hypertext', and the markup language is called HTML. It's not perfect, but it's far superior to most of what's widely used today.

I know this sounds snarky, but I'm being flatly honest. If you've ever read a novel properly formatted in HTML and then had to hassle with something similar half-assedly rendered in bloated PDF or AZW or the like, you can probably see what I mean. But the paranoia over DRM and whatnot, added to the rabid stupidity over content-free bells and whistles, has largely buried HTML.
 
2012-11-18 02:08:48 PM  

Jubeebee: mr_a: I love my Kindle. I find it easier on my eyes than books, and much more convenient.

But for the love of Guttenberg, how hard could it be to run a spell checker on Kindle files?

A lot of Kindle books are crap. Poorly written, poorly edited, poorly formatted. That's the tragedy of removing the gatekeeper.

However, if you sample liberally before you buy, you can usually avoid the stinkers. As an author myself , I'll sample any book I see. I just send them to my phone and see what I'm dealing with. I've found some really excellent books for really cheap; you just have to have the patience to discard 80% of what you sample in order to find the gems.


"It was a dark and stormy night"
 
2012-11-18 02:09:00 PM  

DoctorCal: Kimpak: DoctorCal: FirstNationalBastard: See, I can't throw support behind a device that will allow someone to delete books I paid for on a whim.

No one will be deleting my paperback copy of a novel because some bullshiat terms of service changed or a licensing agreement ran out.

Or because you stopped paying a subscription fee

Or, you could...you know back up the file from your kindle. If amazon pulls the licence you just load the thing back on from your back up and turn wireless off till you finish it.

Oh. So....steal it? I don't need a kindle to do that.


Well simply put, yes. You're on Fark, I don't think you'll find too many people on here that would feel any kind of bad about that. And no you don't need a Kindle to do it, any portable computer will do. I prefer kindle (or nook, they're both fine) because its the ideal tool for the task of reading a book. (aside from an actual physical book of course). My kindle battery lasts well over a month w/o recharging, and as long as I have at least a cell signal or wifi I've constantly got a 24hr/365 bookstore at my beck and call.
 
2012-11-18 02:12:38 PM  
you guys are missing the point, get outside to a used bookstore, all the fun people hang around there. I got Suttree for 2 bucks as opposed to 15 or so online.
 
2012-11-18 02:15:35 PM  
I love my kindle, but I will never give up hard copy books. Kindles are great for travel, and hard copy book are excellent for lending out to friends.

I'm a bit intrigued on the new kindle Fire, as my first generation Kindle is showing signs of hard living these days. E readers are great tools and additions to the reading experience,but nothing takes the place of a hard copy regular ol' book.
 
2012-11-18 02:16:43 PM  

Girion47: TuteTibiImperes: I have a nook, but I still prefer real paper books. eBook prices are far too high, oftentimes very close to the price of a real physical book.

My preference overall is still the library. I can just log onto my county library site, request the book I want, and depending on if it has to be transported from another branch or not, walk in anytime from an hour to three days later to pick it up at the counter, all for free. It's a beautiful thing.

That's why I pirate. The only problem is getting files converted to work on my Kindle in a format I can read it. Even harder is getting the file names to be searchable on the Kindle menu. If it's part of a series I've found I'll have 3-5 files that all start the same and I can't tell the book unless I open it and back out.


I just want to find out here. Are you copying books you don't have in another form? Or you just going out and getting what you want without compensation for the content owner?

If you have a book, but not in any epub format, I am ok with it. That is fair use in my book. Same for stripping DRM from it so you can copy it to multiple readers you own. Fark the DMCA. Shifting the content you have purchased from one medium to another so that you can use shouldn't be illiegal.

Now where I have a problem is when people want something for free that they haven't otherwise paid for. (which is why I have problem with toll roads: use the farking tax money you have already taken, if it isn't enough raise taxes. Roads are public infrastrucure, but I digress) When someone (or someone's dog) wants steak, should they just walk down to the grocery store and take what they want without paying for it? How about gas? Or a car? What about walking into a book store and walking out with the physical copies?
 
2012-11-18 02:16:56 PM  

Kimpak: DoctorCal: Kimpak: DoctorCal: FirstNationalBastard: See, I can't throw support behind a device that will allow someone to delete books I paid for on a whim.

No one will be deleting my paperback copy of a novel because some bullshiat terms of service changed or a licensing agreement ran out.

Or because you stopped paying a subscription fee

Or, you could...you know back up the file from your kindle. If amazon pulls the licence you just load the thing back on from your back up and turn wireless off till you finish it.

Oh. So....steal it? I don't need a kindle to do that.

Well simply put, yes. You're on Fark, I don't think you'll find too many people on here that would feel any kind of bad about that. And no you don't need a Kindle to do it, any portable computer will do. I prefer kindle (or nook, they're both fine) because its the ideal tool for the task of reading a book. (aside from an actual physical book of course). My kindle battery lasts well over a month w/o recharging, and as long as I have at least a cell signal or wifi I've constantly got a 24hr/365 bookstore at my beck and call.


Books are so historically cheap, I don't understand why anyone would steal them. It used to cost me five or six hours of near minimum-wage work to buy a hardcover. Now you can pick up even good ones for about 1 to 2 hours of minimum wage -- not to mention how cheap things are online and in e-book format. Though I do sympathize somewhat with the idea that it's not significantly different from going to a library, I guess (some reservations with this argument still, but I understand it).

As far as the Kindle goes, seriously, if you haven't checked out the Paperwhite, do so. I picked it up assuming I'd just return it if it weren't that much different than the Kindles I already have, and I have touched the other Kindles since, giving two of 'em away as presents for Christmas. I
/plus, it fits in even the smallest pocket!
 
2012-11-18 02:16:58 PM  

sfpfc: you guys are missing the point, get outside to a used bookstore, all the fun people hang around there. I got Suttree for 2 bucks as opposed to 15 or so online.


Its a 45 min drive to my closest used bookstore, over an hour for a regular book store. Prices are not a concern for me.

That being said, I do enjoy trips to the closest Half Price Books when I'm near it.
 
2012-11-18 02:17:08 PM  
I'm the devil because Kindle is part of the vast network of Amazon, whose goal is pretty much to destroy everything I hold dear in my brick-and-mortar culture. And they employ a morally reprehensible scheme to do so....
Yes, yes and yes, but I'm notoriously hard-headed about these things. I get it in my transom that some company is too powerful, and I get this sour feeling in my stomach, which makes it all but impossible for me to support them. It started when I was eighteen and decided I'd never eat at McDonald's again, claiming they were too big, too greedy.


It's rare that someone with this type of psychosis will actually admit to being wrong, or at least as close as this comes.

So I guess he deserves a golf clap.
 
2012-11-18 02:23:54 PM  

FitzShivering: Now you can pick up even good ones for about 1 to 2 hours of minimum wage


National minimum wage is 7.25. It's rare to find a new hardback with a list price under 25.
 
2012-11-18 02:24:34 PM  
By the way, don't ever buy a cover for a Kindle on Amazon unless you find a steal. All the sellers wanted $15-$20 for decent ones, but I found a leather one (real as far as I can tell) from some guy in NJ for $6 with free shipping. It's lovely, and does a good job protecting the screen from the other crap in my backpack. He had about 100 more in stock, so that should tell you something about the markup on those damn things.
 
2012-11-18 02:26:00 PM  

RyansPrivates:
Now where I have a problem is when people want something for free that they haven't otherwise paid for.


Reasons I am occasionally OK with getting one for "free" that isn't already free include:

I already own one or more copies of the physical format of it
The book is completely out of print and cannot be purchased in any way (same here regarding music).
If the author sends me a copy of the e-Book for free (they aren't normally allowed to do this)

Outside of that, I think it's kind of ridiculous to steal books. I know people will make the same jumping jack gyrations mentally to explain why it's OK, how they'd never have paid for them anyway, and all other such nonsense.
 
2012-11-18 02:26:37 PM  

12349876: FitzShivering: Now you can pick up even good ones for about 1 to 2 hours of minimum wage

National minimum wage is 7.25. It's rare to find a new hardback with a list price under 25.


That's a load of bollocks, or you haven't been in a book store in about 10 years.
 
2012-11-18 02:27:22 PM  

12349876: FitzShivering: Now you can pick up even good ones for about 1 to 2 hours of minimum wage

National minimum wage is 7.25. It's rare to find a new hardback with a list price under 25.


I find it rare to find a bookstore selling books for the actual list price. Anyway, I think most people buy the paperbacks. IMO hardcovers are great to have the author sign and look awesome on my bookshelf, but they suck balls for actually reading. Given that most of my reading is done somewhere other than my actual library room.
 
2012-11-18 02:27:52 PM  
FitzShivering: It used to cost me five or six hours of near minimum-wage work to buy a hardcover. Now you can pick up even good ones for about 1 to 2 hours of minimum wage

Um, no, not if you live in the US, not unless you're talking about buying used books. We stock new books for certain titles, and, for instance, one of our best sellers is Casual Vacancy. Its list price is $35, although we sell it at 20% off. Minimum wage here is $7.40 before taxes.

In 1985, a similar book would have cost around $16 new, and minimum wage was around $3.30. Adjusted for inflation, nothing much has changed. In 1970, the book would have cost around $6, and minimum wage was about $1.60, so adjusted for inflation books were significantly cheaper back then.
 
2012-11-18 02:28:23 PM  

FitzShivering: 12349876: FitzShivering: Now you can pick up even good ones for about 1 to 2 hours of minimum wage

National minimum wage is 7.25. It's rare to find a new hardback with a list price under 25.

That's a load of bollocks, or you haven't been in a book store in about 10 years.


To be fair, it is actually true at Walmart and certain grocery stores (unless Wegmans is the only one that does that). But I don't call those bookstores.
 
2012-11-18 02:28:45 PM  
fark Amazon. Proprietary ebook files and readers are some of the worst things to happen to publishing and the exchange of information since the Stamp Act of 1765. It wouldn't be so bad if we could trust companies like Amazon to keep their devices relatively open and compatible, but that's about as likely to happen as living on space colonies on the moon within the next five years. The very fact that people would actually support such regressive practices because it's "cheap" and "convenient" further highlights how hopeless our society is. Wonder what it'd be like to live in a world where you couldn't read anything without first buying some bullshiat device to read it? Keep purchasing your Kindle Crap, and sooner than later you won't have to wonder.
 
2012-11-18 02:29:43 PM  

Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener: >:-/

*says something disparaging about the Steve Guttenberg printing press from afar*


Hey lay off of Steve. That boy is a saint!
 
2012-11-18 02:31:20 PM  

Kimpak: 12349876: FitzShivering: Now you can pick up even good ones for about 1 to 2 hours of minimum wage

National minimum wage is 7.25. It's rare to find a new hardback with a list price under 25.

I find it rare to find a bookstore selling books for the actual list price. Anyway, I think most people buy the paperbacks. IMO hardcovers are great to have the author sign and look awesome on my bookshelf, but they suck balls for actually reading. Given that most of my reading is done somewhere other than my actual library room.


There's often some discount, though I don't think I've seen anything bigger than 10% for those who aren't part of the club/membership/rewards. I get plenty of hardbacks for under 10 bucks in the bargain section or used.
 
2012-11-18 02:31:37 PM  

12349876: FitzShivering: Now you can pick up even good ones for about 1 to 2 hours of minimum wage

National minimum wage is 7.25. It's rare to find a new hardback with a list price under 25.


Let me re-phrase that, and try to give you the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps you're just being technical. No one, including the largest chains, sells their books for list price, and if you've been in a bookstore recently, you know this. Additionally, used bookstores rarely sell books for more than 20% of their list price. The list price is lot like the price on a car -- if you're paying the sticker, you're probably a gigantic moron.

With the rise of online purchasing, it's easy to compare prices. I haven't paid more than $20 for a hardcover book that was not a collector's item or a small batch printing in a very, very long time. I very rarely pay more than $15.
 
2012-11-18 02:31:56 PM  

Professor Horatio Hufnagel: fark Amazon. Proprietary ebook files and readers are some of the worst things to happen to publishing and the exchange of information since the Stamp Act of 1765. It wouldn't be so bad if we could trust companies like Amazon to keep their devices relatively open and compatible, but that's about as likely to happen as living on space colonies on the moon within the next five years. The very fact that people would actually support such regressive practices because it's "cheap" and "convenient" further highlights how hopeless our society is. Wonder what it'd be like to live in a world where you couldn't read anything without first buying some bullshiat device to read it? Keep purchasing your Kindle Crap, and sooner than later you won't have to wonder.


Soo.....all of these .pdf, epub and mobi files I have on my Kindle are just working by magic? I find that my Kindle is remarkably 'open' and not at all propitiatory.
 
2012-11-18 02:32:10 PM  
RandomAxe
I know this sounds snarky, but I'm being flatly honest. If you've ever read a novel properly formatted in HTML and then had to hassle with something similar half-assedly rendered in bloated PDF or AZW or the like, you can probably see what I mean. But the paranoia over DRM and whatnot, added to the rabid stupidity over content-free bells and whistles, has largely buried HTML.

Naw, you don't sound snarky at all-- it's actually a lot of good information!
 
2012-11-18 02:34:10 PM  

RandomAxe: All_Farked_Up: Amazon is actually one of the better ones as individuals can sell their own books without a publishing contract.

Yes, but this is ridiculous on its face. You ought to be able to buy content directly from the individuals, online, or through any licensed third-party merchant. Piracy is obviously an issue, but proprietary formats that consumers are slaved to are bullshiat. Kindle owners, for instance, generally don't realize how they've tied their genitals to Amazon until Amazon decides to drive off in a huff.


None of the content on my Kindle was purchased or processed through Amazon except a few web articles I emailed to my @free.kindle.com address so I could pull them over wifi instead of connecting the USB cable for a few hundred kb of data. This 'tying yourself in' stuff is nonsense.

And as for your gripes about how e-ink readers should be video ready by now: WHY? That's not what they're for. I have a full-color LCD display on my computer for that. The only things that I give a fark about with e-readers is that they're readable and the battery lasts longer than my cell phone's.
 
2012-11-18 02:35:43 PM  

RandomAxe: FitzShivering: It used to cost me five or six hours of near minimum-wage work to buy a hardcover. Now you can pick up even good ones for about 1 to 2 hours of minimum wage

Um, no, not if you live in the US, not unless you're talking about buying used books. We stock new books for certain titles, and, for instance, one of our best sellers is Casual Vacancy. Its list price is $35, although we sell it at 20% off. Minimum wage here is $7.40 before taxes.

In 1985, a similar book would have cost around $16 new, and minimum wage was around $3.30. Adjusted for inflation, nothing much has changed. In 1970, the book would have cost around $6, and minimum wage was about $1.60, so adjusted for inflation books were significantly cheaper back then.


Selling it for 20% off, you're sending it out at 28. And you are running a premium with a store front. The same book is available with no price shopping whatsoever for $20 straight off Amazon on.

Regarding your numbers you gave above, adjusting them for inflation at the same rate, you actually made my argument for me. I don't think I need to do the math for you to show how 1.60 or 3.30 turns into 7.25, and how moving from 6 or 16 to what would be "today's prices" shows exactly what I already said: books are cheaper. Your own numbers show that.
 
2012-11-18 02:36:44 PM  
I'm the devil because Kindle is part of the vast network of Amazon, whose goal is pretty much to destroy everything I hold dear in my brick-and-mortar culture. And they employ a morally reprehensible scheme to do so.


That's all it took to overthrow your moral principles? That was easy.

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-11-18 02:37:01 PM  

FitzShivering: Books are so historically cheap, I don't understand why anyone would steal them.


True for everything except textbooks. My God, do they gouge the living shiat out of textbooks. And E-textbooks still cost 90% of the hardcover book price for some reason.
 
2012-11-18 02:38:24 PM  
3.bp.blogspot.com

I LOVE THOSE 1-X ROBOTS!!
 
2012-11-18 02:39:27 PM  

FitzShivering: $20 straight off Amazon on.


That's still almost 2.75 hours at national minimum wage as opposed to your 1-2 in your original post, and you'd have to pay for shipping or shell out more money for Prime or buy something else for Super Saver and possibly wait a while for it.
 
2012-11-18 02:39:49 PM  
I bought a kindle last year for my mother because the library has kindle books you can borrow. It's really nice. They also have epub and pdfs but I chose the kindle root because its easier to get books that way for a technologically inept person, like my mom. I read kindle books on my phone, white text on a black background is easy on my eyes.
 
2012-11-18 02:40:00 PM  

RandomAxe: buttcat: You're right - we would all be paying $12.99 for a book from Apple's bookstore then a few years later, an additional $2.99 to make it DRM free.

Well, it's optimistic of me, but I think that competition and greed would keep the ebook prices lower.


You'd be wrong to think that. The Big Four publishers, with the help of Apple, stripped e-tailers (including Amazon) of the ability to set their own prices by using the "Agency Model". But, since Apple and the publishers recently lost a price fixing lawsuit we, the book buying public, may see a return to Amazon's predatory pricing (yay!).
 
2012-11-18 02:40:23 PM  

RexTalionis: The fact that I no longer have to waste time flipping pages with my Kindle has meant that my reading speed is dramatically quicker.


If you really want to increase your reading speed, give this a try.

It's pretty amazing.
 
2012-11-18 02:40:36 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: FitzShivering: Books are so historically cheap, I don't understand why anyone would steal them.

True for everything except textbooks. My God, do they gouge the living shiat out of textbooks. And E-textbooks still cost 90% of the hardcover book price for some reason.


You aren't kidding. It is awful. I still buy textbooks occasionally even though I'm long out of school at this point, but it is ridiculous how much they cost. I usually try to find damaged ones or ones with pages missing.
 
2012-11-18 02:43:19 PM  

Kimpak: Cyrusv10: dmax: Look forward 500 years. Electricity may or may not be plentiful.

Things "written" on computers will be lost. Only things on hard copy would remain, just like we read the ancient grocery lists of our ancestors.
--

As the article pointed out, there will always be printed books. People will always buy them. ebooks won't kill that. I think that people get this notion in their minds that Kindle's and Nooks etc.. will be the end of the printed book culture and it will be forced underground a la Fahrenheit 451. Personally I think that's a little tinfoil hatty. In my opinion, I think people from now on will have a mix of physical books and ebooks. I like my kindle for when I'm away from home and don't want to risk damaging one of my physical books by lugging it around with me.


Oh, I've had three version of the Kindle. But people don't seem to understand that their computer based art, writing, photography, etc. is all temporary. Not tinfoil-hatty, but a lesson that some people will learn too late.

Already, things creating in AppleWorks, etc., are only partially retrievable. Imagine format changes in 30 years, trying to get back something that you worked on. Text might be the most safe, but one day the power will go out. (Or, alternatively, how can a society without adequate, consistent power participate in the art/literature/education?)

I've been on the net since Telnet and Mosaic, but we shouldn't confuse computers with permanence.
 
2012-11-18 02:43:21 PM  
Also might be worth pointing out that the fun thing about books is things like "average hardcover price" per year are available if you do some research, and you'll see quite clearly that the average hardcover price has been decreasing over the last decade or so (with the additional point that books have been further discounted, not to mention the lack of need to even leave the house to buy them), while wages have been going up. Books _are_ cheaper than they have ever been, with all the options available. It's hard fact. You're going to find a genre where it isn't true, or find some moron who goes to B&N and pays list (though with all the 10% off stickers, that might be a chore), but there's very little logical argument to be made that books are more expensive now.
 
2012-11-18 02:44:27 PM  
FTA: "It started when I was eighteen and decided I'd never eat at McDonald's again, claiming they were too big, too greedy. This was hard to explain to my friends, who liked cheap food, but they humored me and we ate at Burger King instead. "

Wow. The author actually typed that with a straight face. What an idiot.
 
2012-11-18 02:44:37 PM  

JWideman: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Another one of the evils of Capitalism. They need to nationalize all bookstores! That way, taxpayer-supported bookstores won't have to worry about making profits and can carry thousands of books that otherwise would never be read.

You mean like... libraries?


Please don't feed the parasites! [JAOCHG, not libraries, those are great]
 
2012-11-18 02:46:00 PM  

Professor Horatio Hufnagel: fark Amazon. Proprietary ebook files and readers are some of the worst things to happen to publishing and the exchange of information since the Stamp Act of 1765. It wouldn't be so bad if we could trust companies like Amazon to keep their devices relatively open and compatible, but that's about as likely to happen as living on space colonies on the moon within the next five years. The very fact that people would actually support such regressive practices because it's "cheap" and "convenient" further highlights how hopeless our society is. Wonder what it'd be like to live in a world where you couldn't read anything without first buying some bullshiat device to read it? Keep purchasing your Kindle Crap, and sooner than later you won't have to wonder.


So, you guys are aware that it's completely trivial to convert your AZWs to MOBI or ePub or HTML, right? Because that makes these angry rants sound pretty silly.
 
2012-11-18 02:46:18 PM  
One piece of unabashed genius that will never make the transition to eBook.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-11-18 02:47:53 PM  

MrHelpful: FTA: "It started when I was eighteen and decided I'd never eat at McDonald's again, claiming they were too big, too greedy. This was hard to explain to my friends, who liked cheap food, but they humored me and we ate at Burger King instead. "

Wow. The author actually typed that with a straight face. What an idiot.


I'm sure he also fights the good fight against commercialized coffee franchises by skipping Starbucks and getting his coffee at Dunkin Donuts instead.
 
2012-11-18 02:49:42 PM  
FitzShivering: No one, including the largest chains, sells their books for list price, and if you've been in a bookstore recently, you know this. Additionally, used bookstores rarely sell books for more than 20% of their list price.

I don't know where the hell you shop, but this is absolutely untrue anywhere I've been, or at least it's exaggerated. Barnes & Noble, for instance, routinely sells some books at loss-leader prices well below list, and they offer various other kinds of discounts, but nothing that would justify the kinds of generalizations you're making.

Similarly, I know dozens of used book dealers and have shopped at hundreds of used book stores, storefront and online, and most routinely charged more like 20-50% of the list price for a typical book. Yes, there are tons of books you can get for a penny (plus often exorbitant S&H) online, but those represent a small fraction of the inventory available.


Regarding your numbers you gave above, adjusting them for inflation at the same rate, you actually made my argument for me. I don't think I need to do the math for you to show how 1.60 or 3.30 turns into 7.25, and how moving from 6 or 16 to what would be "today's prices" shows exactly what I already said: books are cheaper. Your own numbers show that.

I don't think I want you to do the math. Even without a constant-dollars calculation or adjusting for taxation, you can see that $1.60 is 22% of $7.25, while $6 is only 17% of $35, which proves my point, not yours.
 
2012-11-18 02:50:29 PM  

RandomAxe: Disclosure: I manage a used book store that's perpetually on the verge of going out of business.

Amazon is not why bookstores go out of business. Mismanagement of bookstores and the idiocy of the US publishing industry are among the top reasons that bookstores go out of business. Amazon is terrible in many, many, many ways, as anyone bright who shops with them frequently will notice, but that's beside the point. And they stay in business because they're very convenient and have few real competitors.

Ebooks are also not why bookstores go out of business. That said, current e-readers are terrible -- their design is driven by marketing crap, not technology or usability, and consumers will continue to get stuck with crap readers if they never hold out for something better. In fact, the trend that seems likely is that tablet computers will eat the reader market whole, and a few years from now you'll be slightly embarrassed to admit that you shelled out actual money for a Nook or Kindle.

I never liked Steve Jobs, but if he were still alive very few people would be buying a Nook or Kindle. Or paying as much as $5 for a typical ebook. I'm just saying.


You're making too much sense. Get off teh intarwebs!
 
2012-11-18 02:51:51 PM  
dmax: One piece of unabashed genius that will never make the transition to eBook.

Why? A good e-reader could display that in HTML, one page or several pages at a time, in any arrangement, properly formatted, in ways germane to the text but which a standard paper format can't match.
 
2012-11-18 02:54:38 PM  

FitzShivering: Also might be worth pointing out that the fun thing about books is things like "average hardcover price" per year are available if you do some research, and you'll see quite clearly that the average hardcover price has been decreasing over the last decade or so (with the additional point that books have been further discounted, not to mention the lack of need to even leave the house to buy them), while wages have been going up. Books _are_ cheaper than they have ever been, with all the options available. It's hard fact. You're going to find a genre where it isn't true, or find some moron who goes to B&N and pays list (though with all the 10% off stickers, that might be a chore), but there's very little logical argument to be made that books are more expensive now.


A counterpoint to this would be the view that hardcover books years ago were too expensive for what they were, and while prices may have declined, are still too expensive.

For example, I would not consider any novel hardcover book worth more than $10. That they have apparently gone down to $20 means it is still 100% overpriced.
 
2012-11-18 02:55:20 PM  
They charge less than what a book actually costs them,

All that reading, and the author can't write properly.
 
kab
2012-11-18 02:55:21 PM  
Meh, I'll stick to books. Thanks.

/still buys cd's as well.
 
2012-11-18 02:57:59 PM  

dmax: Kimpak: Cyrusv10: dmax: Look forward 500 years. Electricity may or may not be plentiful.

Things "written" on computers will be lost. Only things on hard copy would remain, just like we read the ancient grocery lists of our ancestors.
--

As the article pointed out, there will always be printed books. People will always buy them. ebooks won't kill that. I think that people get this notion in their minds that Kindle's and Nooks etc.. will be the end of the printed book culture and it will be forced underground a la Fahrenheit 451. Personally I think that's a little tinfoil hatty. In my opinion, I think people from now on will have a mix of physical books and ebooks. I like my kindle for when I'm away from home and don't want to risk damaging one of my physical books by lugging it around with me.

Oh, I've had three version of the Kindle. But people don't seem to understand that their computer based art, writing, photography, etc. is all temporary. Not tinfoil-hatty, but a lesson that some people will learn too late.

Already, things creating in AppleWorks, etc., are only partially retrievable. Imagine format changes in 30 years, trying to get back something that you worked on. Text might be the most safe, but one day the power will go out. (Or, alternatively, how can a society without adequate, consistent power participate in the art/literature/education?)

I've been on the net since Telnet and Mosaic, but we shouldn't confuse computers with permanence.


That's even more tinfoil hatty. Again, real books are not going to go away. So when that big EMP bomb from China goes off and everyone gets blown back to the stone ages, they'll still be there. Useful books like textbooks are always going to be in print. There will always be an endless supply of crappy steamy romance novels, etc..

As far as writing being retrievable....there is such a thing as a printer? If I was writing a book, I think I would print myself a copy. Personally speaking, there is nothing I have on any of my computers or electronic devices that I don't have some sort of physical copy of, or would care in the slightest if it were suddenly deleted.
 
2012-11-18 03:00:11 PM  
This begs the question of why anyone would think less of a business which provides legal goods and services to consenting adults is morally wrong in the first place.
 
2012-11-18 03:01:08 PM  
The funny thing is that Amazon paid publishers wholesale for the books they were selling for $9.99. The publishers weren't losing any money, Amazon was. The Big Four were pissed that they couldn't set the pricing throughout the book's life-cycle and that Amazon was reducing the perceived value of their product. Publishers actually make less money under the price model they have imposed but they have greater control, or so they think. They obviously learned nothing from the music industry. If you make content affordable and portable (DRM free) people will buy, you try to charge the same for digital content as physical media and lock it down (First Sale doctrine anyone?) people will pirate. Morons.
 
2012-11-18 03:02:34 PM  

sfpfc: you guys are missing the point, get outside to a used bookstore, all the fun people hang around there. I got Suttree for 2 bucks as opposed to 15 or so online.


I RTFA'd. I'm pretty sure that was not the point at all.
 
2012-11-18 03:04:07 PM  
I don't get all of the ebook hate. I have a couple of dozen models, going back years (i used to review ebook readers for a major trade magazine as well as my father having his name on a few e-ink patents).

I prefer mono lcd to e-ink (like the old iBook from taiwan or the jetbook mini). However, the new paperwhite is great for reading in the dark. The nook when first released was crap with the bad software. It was later updated to a point where it worked.

I am a "higher end" reader who used to haunt used book stores and send back boxes of books to my wife. She was thrilled when I went a whole week on a business trip with my old rocketbook and did not UPS any books to her.

Calibre is very good for converting between formats. You have to have a good source though.

One of the best things about ebooks is the access to older out of print books if you know where to look and ask. Complete series of magazines, etc. you can download the Gutenberg iso image and have reading to sort and go through for months. For free.
 
2012-11-18 03:04:14 PM  

Kimpak: Useful books like textbooks are always going to be in print.


After the big EMP bomb goes off nothing will be in print. The modern printing industry relies heavily on computers (including the presses themselves). Nobody sets lead type by hand anymore.
 
2012-11-18 03:07:50 PM  

there their theyre: I bought a kindle last year for my mother because the library has kindle books you can borrow. It's really nice. They also have epub and pdfs but I chose the kindle root because its easier to get books that way for a technologically inept person, like my mom. I read kindle books on my phone, white text on a black background is easy on my eyes.


This.

All the people who are nostalgic about the touch and feel of a book have never experienced the connivence off "checking out" an e-book from the public library.
 
2012-11-18 03:07:55 PM  

alkhemy: Raharu: Publishers are again. clueless much like music labels, and Movie industry are.

Not all publishers. Many small publishers have a handle on this.

/ Owns a publishing company.

// All our ebooks are $4.99


Need a proofreader/editor? :o)

/I've always wanted to work for a publishing house
 
2012-11-18 03:08:29 PM  
After the big EMP bomb goes off nothing will be in print. The modern printing industry relies heavily on computers (including the presses themselves). Nobody sets lead type by hand anymore.

*ahem* some us still do. It is a hobby. It does scare me that there are a few newspapers that still set up with an older "mainframe" dedicated to the process that I was selling and developing for in the early 80's.
 
2012-11-18 03:10:29 PM  

Allen. The end.: ANy 'browse feature' in the world won't allow me to find hidden treasures, though. So far my best find has been a first edition of Dune in mint condition...for $13.


Collectable books will become worthless as collectible records as the become relics to the younger generation.
 
2012-11-18 03:14:17 PM  

RyansPrivates: Girion47: TuteTibiImperes: I have a nook, but I still prefer real paper books. eBook prices are far too high, oftentimes very close to the price of a real physical book.

My preference overall is still the library. I can just log onto my county library site, request the book I want, and depending on if it has to be transported from another branch or not, walk in anytime from an hour to three days later to pick it up at the counter, all for free. It's a beautiful thing.

That's why I pirate. The only problem is getting files converted to work on my Kindle in a format I can read it. Even harder is getting the file names to be searchable on the Kindle menu. If it's part of a series I've found I'll have 3-5 files that all start the same and I can't tell the book unless I open it and back out.

I just want to find out here. Are you copying books you don't have in another form? Or you just going out and getting what you want without compensation for the content owner?

If you have a book, but not in any epub format, I am ok with it. That is fair use in my book. Same for stripping DRM from it so you can copy it to multiple readers you own. Fark the DMCA. Shifting the content you have purchased from one medium to another so that you can use shouldn't be illiegal.

Now where I have a problem is when people want something for free that they haven't otherwise paid for. (which is why I have problem with toll roads: use the farking tax money you have already taken, if it isn't enough raise taxes. Roads are public infrastrucure, but I digress) When someone (or someone's dog) wants steak, should they just walk down to the grocery store and take what they want without paying for it? How about gas? Or a car? What about walking into a book store and walking out with the physical copies?


It really doesn't matter. Some of it is I'm getting books that I'm intrigued by but don't want to buy, can do the same through my library, the other is I'm getting electronic versions of books I own.

Pirating a book isn't a big deal to me. I can check it out from the library or get it used at a book sale, and the author gets nothing in return.
 
2012-11-18 03:14:45 PM  
Funny thing, it's almost impossible to tell whether this is a real Salon writer or someone parodying Salon writers.
 
2012-11-18 03:15:10 PM  

exvaxman: After the big EMP bomb goes off nothing will be in print. The modern printing industry relies heavily on computers (including the presses themselves). Nobody sets lead type by hand anymore.

*ahem* some us still do. It is a hobby. It does scare me that there are a few newspapers that still set up with an older "mainframe" dedicated to the process that I was selling and developing for in the early 80's.


You'll be busy after the big Chinese EMP bomb goes off. I hope you have a steam plant to run your platen presses...
 
2012-11-18 03:15:23 PM  
I hate turning off my kindle on the airplane takeoff and land. This is when books are best
us.123rf.com
 
2012-11-18 03:16:16 PM  

MikeMc: Kimpak: Useful books like textbooks are always going to be in print.

After the big EMP bomb goes off nothing will be in print. The modern printing industry relies heavily on computers (including the presses themselves). Nobody sets lead type by hand anymore.


lol, touche. However, I meant that up to the point of the EMP books will continue to be printed. After the EMP, well printing books is but one of the many problems society would face.

Somewhat off topic but I think there's enough people out there with skills in how do to things without electricity, that society will survive after an initial shiatty period of time. A different world to be sure, but I feel like eventually power will be restored and people will start over. We're not going to just forget how to generate electricity, but it may take a generation or three to get it back.
 
2012-11-18 03:22:27 PM  

MikeMc: exvaxman: After the big EMP bomb goes off nothing will be in print. The modern printing industry relies heavily on computers (including the presses themselves). Nobody sets lead type by hand anymore.

*ahem* some us still do. It is a hobby. It does scare me that there are a few newspapers that still set up with an older "mainframe" dedicated to the process that I was selling and developing for in the early 80's.

You'll be busy after the big Chinese EMP bomb goes off. I hope you have a steam plant to run your platen presses...


A couple of years ago, I looked at a house being sold by the third generation of the original owners. It had a small printing press in the basement with tons of accessories (I don't know the names for them, but there were several boxes of stuff along with it and parts strewn around the basement room). I believe it was non-electric.

If the house hadn't been too big and too expensive (along with a shiatty location on a main road), that actually would have been a selling point for me, because it was pretty cool. The house was boiler heated, too.
 
2012-11-18 03:24:25 PM  
I've had a Kindle for a few years. It is easy onnthe eyes and good formatting but I find it much easier to go back and find a passage in a book in print. Plus, I like having my books on my bookshelves. Sometimes I'll stare at them and it will remind me to look up other books by a particular author. Sometimes it will prompt me to re-read one. I guess I am just old fashioned. Still, I use the Kindle sometimes but the prices for ebooks seriously piss me off.
 
2012-11-18 03:25:10 PM  

ladyfortuna: MikeMc: exvaxman: After the big EMP bomb goes off nothing will be in print. The modern printing industry relies heavily on computers (including the presses themselves). Nobody sets lead type by hand anymore.

*ahem* some us still do. It is a hobby. It does scare me that there are a few newspapers that still set up with an older "mainframe" dedicated to the process that I was selling and developing for in the early 80's.

You'll be busy after the big Chinese EMP bomb goes off. I hope you have a steam plant to run your platen presses...

A couple of years ago, I looked at a house being sold by the third generation of the original owners. It had a small printing press in the basement with tons of accessories (I don't know the names for them, but there were several boxes of stuff along with it and parts strewn around the basement room). I believe it was non-electric.

If the house hadn't been too big and too expensive (along with a shiatty location on a main road), that actually would have been a selling point for me, because it was pretty cool. The house was boiler heated, too.


That would be cool (I've been involved in the printing business in one form or another for ~30 years).
 
2012-11-18 03:25:26 PM  

Kimpak: Somewhat off topic but I think there's enough people out there with skills in how do to things without electricity, that society will survive after an initial shiatty period of time. A different world to be sure, but I feel like eventually power will be restored and people will start over. We're not going to just forget how to generate electricity, but it may take a generation or three to get it back.



That, and there's like 10,000 electricity companies out there with engineers and technicians and workers. Those companies and their evil profit-mongering are going to work extra hard to rebuild their villainous money-making electrical grid as soon as possible.
 
2012-11-18 03:26:55 PM  

museamused: I've had a Kindle for a few years. It is easy onnthe eyes and good formatting but I find it much easier to go back and find a passage in a book in print.


The fact that Kindle books use "locations" instead of page numbers sucks. It makes it very hard to move back and forth if you don't bookmark everything.
 
2012-11-18 03:29:00 PM  

MikeMc: museamused: I've had a Kindle for a few years. It is easy onnthe eyes and good formatting but I find it much easier to go back and find a passage in a book in print.

The fact that Kindle books use "locations" instead of page numbers sucks. It makes it very hard to move back and forth if you don't bookmark everything.


Maybe I'm reading books wrong, but I've never had to flip back and forth while reading a book except in the case of choose your own adventure novels.
 
2012-11-18 03:33:32 PM  

RandomAxe: All_Farked_Up: Amazon is actually one of the better ones as individuals can sell their own books without a publishing contract.

Yes, but this is ridiculous on its face. You ought to be able to buy content directly from the individuals, online, or through any licensed third-party merchant. Piracy is obviously an issue, but proprietary formats that consumers are slaved to are bullshiat. Kindle owners, for instance, generally don't realize how they've tied their genitals to Amazon until Amazon decides to drive off in a huff.


I own a Kindle. I don't have a damn thing on it tied to an Amazon account. Even if I DO buy something from Amazon rather than any of the other e-retailers I could choose from, it's trivial to modify the file once I've downloaded it so they can't remove it remotely.

This sounds a lot like people claiming that iPods were "proprietary", not realising they played literally any .mp3 file you put on them, and you weren't in any way obliged to use iTunes. I also have an iPod nano, and have never bought a damn thing off iTunes, either.

Their shops are proprietary. Their hardware is NOT. And nothing, nothing forces you to use their shops.


dmax: Oh, I've had three version of the Kindle. But people don't seem to understand that their computer based art, writing, photography, etc. is all temporary. Not tinfoil-hatty, but a lesson that some people will learn too late.

Already, things creating in AppleWorks, etc., are only partially retrievable. Imagine format changes in 30 years, trying to get back something that you worked on. Text might be the most safe, but one day the power will go out. (Or, alternatively, how can a society without adequate, consistent power participate in the art/literature/education?)

I've been on the net since Telnet and Mosaic, but we shouldn't confuse computers with permanence.


Books are anything but permanent, either. Fires, water damage, loss of the physical item in some way, etc. Format changes aren't really much of an issue; if there's a demand, it will be relatively trivial to create a conversion system. They already do this, entirely open-source for the most part, with software emulation of video games; you can emulate plenty of games for which the physical technology is dwindling. The ROM files are often not LEGAL, for copyright reasons, but that's a different issue; format changes, particularly backwards for something as simple as text files, is relatively simple.

And the power will never "go out". You might lose power in certain areas, or the generators might go down, but private generation will always be available. The only circumstance where it would not would be if we were facing such apocalyptic events that society has utterly collapsed. The kind of events that would ALSO see physical books being burned as tinder just to keep warm. If it ever were to occur, physical books are in no way better suited to survive.

As for more technological issues like EMP weapons or the like, we're on the cusp of a technological revolution with the rise of cloud computing. I don't want to call it "the cloud" as if it were some single thing, but the idea is distributed wireless backups. Once we incorporate it with satellite technology serving as additional clusters (we have the tech for this, it's just not fully established due to cost and such), then the US could get nuked into radioactive glass, and all (or at least, most) of our data would survive.

On a personal level, our data is FAR more protected now than it ever has been. I can back up my entire e-book library to multiple devices (it's on my PC as well as the Kindle, right now). My own work, I frequently back up to Google. If my entire house were to burn down, all my physical books would be toast. I'd still have a lot of my electronic data available. The issue about future compatibility doesn't really apply, since we're not talking about lost archives suddenly rediscovered; you'll be updating your data as technology changes. And really, recovering data in an older format isn't any more difficult than recovering data in a forgotten language. Easier, more likely, since we have better records and such.


Yes, if we went through a new collapse of society like the one after the fall of the Holy Roman Empire, a lot of our literature and such would vanish. It did then, too. We're still missing famous books of that era that we know of through references, but of which no copies are known to survive. You're overestimating the resilience of books as a medium, and underestimating the strength of electronics.
 
2012-11-18 03:35:04 PM  
Maybe I'm reading books wrong, but I've never had to flip back and forth while reading a book except in the case of choose your own adventure novels.

And, again, using proper hypertext formatting not only completely eliminates this issue but is superior, in this respect, to print.
 
2012-11-18 03:35:27 PM  

dmax: One piece of unabashed genius that will never make the transition to eBook.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x440]


So help me, I can't stand that book.
 
2012-11-18 03:39:37 PM  

BullBearMS: RexTalionis: The fact that I no longer have to waste time flipping pages with my Kindle has meant that my reading speed is dramatically quicker.

If you really want to increase your reading speed, give this a try.

It's pretty amazing.


As far as I can see, that is SLOWER than normal reading.

I don't see the point.
 
2012-11-18 03:45:44 PM  

RandomAxe: I never liked Steve Jobs, but if he were still alive very few people would be buying a Nook or Kindle. Or paying as much as $5 for a typical ebook. I'm just saying.


Huh? The Kindle and the Nook were both released, and sold like gangbusters (with $10 ebooks), well before Jobs's death. Why do you think any of that would have drastically changed in the last year?
 
2012-11-18 03:53:27 PM  

RandomAxe: For that matter, I should add that far superior e-ink technology has existed for well over a decade now. Commercially available readers are really crappy. Never mind that they ought to be full computers; their displays should be capable of very nice full-motion video, and at about the same price point.


What are you basing this on? Are you saying there was 60Hz e-ink technology available 10 years ago, which cost no more than what Amazon is using for the Kindle, and for some reason Amazon just didn't use it? If this tech is available at the same price point, why hasn't any company adopted it to blow the existing competition out of the water?
 
2012-11-18 03:53:37 PM  

patternmatch: RandomAxe: I never liked Steve Jobs, but if he were still alive very few people would be buying a Nook or Kindle. Or paying as much as $5 for a typical ebook. I'm just saying.

Huh? The Kindle and the Nook were both released, and sold like gangbusters (with $10 ebooks), well before Jobs's death. Why do you think any of that would have drastically changed in the last year?


So many tech pundits were crowing about about how the iPad was going to revolutionize electronic publishing. Yeah, no. All Apple did was help raise prices.
 
2012-11-18 03:57:01 PM  

DoctorCal: Kimpak: DoctorCal: FirstNationalBastard: See, I can't throw support behind a device that will allow someone to delete books I paid for on a whim.

No one will be deleting my paperback copy of a novel because some bullshiat terms of service changed or a licensing agreement ran out.

Or because you stopped paying a subscription fee

Or, you could...you know back up the file from your kindle. If amazon pulls the licence you just load the thing back on from your back up and turn wireless off till you finish it.

Oh. So....steal it? I don't need a kindle to do that.


If you've already paid for it, and are taking steps to prevent it being taken away from you, how is that "stealing" it?
 
2012-11-18 04:00:08 PM  
Best thing about a kindle is project Gutenberg and a relatively long bus commute. A few years of the two and I'll have read most of the canon. I was shocked at how handy that little thing is.
 
2012-11-18 04:05:24 PM  
amazon sells books? i thought all they sold we're like everything else
 
2012-11-18 04:12:35 PM  

skinink: I recently bought "The Picture of Dorian Gray" from Google Play. In the book his name is continuously misspelled as Dorian Cray, among other mistakes in the text. Google would not refund my money.


I had downloaded a bunch of books from the pirate bay, and had similar quality issues. Figuring it was pirates providing a crappy copy, I went and purchased a few of the books that I really wanted from Barnes & Noble. Their copies had the same mistakes. Lesson learned. B&N charges a premium for the books, and has very little quality control in place, so I'll keep torrenting them for now.

/Would make sweet, sweet love to my Glowlight Nook if I could
 
2012-11-18 04:14:14 PM  

StashMonster: BullBearMS: RexTalionis: The fact that I no longer have to waste time flipping pages with my Kindle has meant that my reading speed is dramatically quicker.

If you really want to increase your reading speed, give this a try.

It's pretty amazing.

As far as I can see, that is SLOWER than normal reading.

I don't see the point.


Did you see the part where you can change the speed, type size, number of words displayed simultaneously, etc?
 
2012-11-18 04:19:37 PM  

louiedog: Tourney3p0: louiedog:

Oh, I get it. Your joke is about people not reading when you clearly didn't read my comment. Very meta of you. I love it.

I read it. You think that having someone "read you a story" is the same as reading. It's not. Entirely different parts of the brain get stimulated.

If your goal is just to be entertained, great. No problem there. But in the end, you're still proud of not reading. Sad.

You cracked it. My comment about listening to cassettes on a walkman oozed so much pride over not reading that it completely covered the ridiculous of the statement.


I cannot f*cking believe you're getting so many bites. Congratulations. All hail the king of the trolls.

Do you have the headphones embedded in your helmet?

i.imgur.com
 
2012-11-18 04:28:34 PM  
Their shops are proprietary. Their hardware is NOT. And nothing, nothing forces you to use their shops.

In my old job, almost everyone used a smartphone or a tablet to read at work. I was the only one who didn't, got made fun of all the time and my boss asked me one day why I didn't get with the crowd and do what they were doing. If i liked it there.

I didn't.

I got myself laid off a year later.
 
2012-11-18 05:00:04 PM  
I decided to get a Nook [simple touch with glowlight] a while back because my bookshelf was full, and I figured digital is especially good for stuff like classics that I don't really need sitting on my shelf forever after I read them. And it really is great for traveling.

I really dislike everything about the Nook store. For one thing, I have books I bought from Borders still on my shelf even though Borders is gone. I wish Barnes and Noble the best, but should they go out of business I want to be sure I still have everything I bought. I could flex on that some (as I do with Steam) if the books were cheap, but not when they're just as expensive as physical copies. Also, I dislike from a philosophical standpoint the idea that they'd be keeping a list of all the books I buy.

So everything I have on my Nook is from Project Gutenberg and it's pretty great.
 
2012-11-18 05:03:00 PM  

patternmatch: DoctorCal: Kimpak: DoctorCal: FirstNationalBastard: See, I can't throw support behind a device that will allow someone to delete books I paid for on a whim.

No one will be deleting my paperback copy of a novel because some bullshiat terms of service changed or a licensing agreement ran out.

Or because you stopped paying a subscription fee

Or, you could...you know back up the file from your kindle. If amazon pulls the licence you just load the thing back on from your back up and turn wireless off till you finish it.

Oh. So....steal it? I don't need a kindle to do that.

If you've already paid for it, and are taking steps to prevent it being taken away from you, how is that "stealing" it?


What is this "it" that you thing has been paid for? If you think it's ownership of a digital copy of a book, you're entirely mistaken.
 
2012-11-18 05:03:58 PM  

GoldenEagle: I decided to get a Nook [simple touch with glowlight] a while back because my bookshelf was full, and I figured digital is especially good for stuff like classics that I don't really need sitting on my shelf forever after I read them. And it really is great for traveling.

I really dislike everything about the Nook store. For one thing, I have books I bought from Borders still on my shelf even though Borders is gone. I wish Barnes and Noble the best, but should they go out of business I want to be sure I still have everything I bought. I could flex on that some (as I do with Steam) if the books were cheap, but not when they're just as expensive as physical copies. Also, I dislike from a philosophical standpoint the idea that they'd be keeping a list of all the books I buy.

So everything I have on my Nook is from Project Gutenberg and it's pretty great.


Kindle here. I buy everything I read, but I crack the DRM and store it myself. Partially it's a hedge against Amazon going out of business. But mostly it's because I spend a lot on books, and I want my ebook collection to be part of my estate when I kick the bucket - I have no guarantee of that anywhere.
 
2012-11-18 05:06:53 PM  
www.the-ebook-reader.com

I love my Sony reader. What I especially like about these things is that I can take them on vacation - like when I did for almost a month in Latin America last year and read five novels. I didn't have to lug those books in my small backpack; they were all on my reader.
 
2012-11-18 05:17:46 PM  
Another advantage of the Kindle 2 is that I can rely on the battery lasting for 2+ weeks if I keep the wifi/3G turned off. I don't see a tablet lasting that long on one charge.
 
2012-11-18 05:21:36 PM  
Having a need for many reference books on electronic format...I have found the best is CHM. Much better than pdf's....


Do not trust the "cloud"

If it is not in your hand you do not have it.
 
2012-11-18 05:27:45 PM  
I have been re-reading Terry Practchett's Discworld series.

I had most, but not all of them, in hardcover or paperback. I started reading them by borrowing them from the library and decided it was worth owning my own cleaner, permanent copies.

I filled the gaps in my collection with paperbacks when I started to re-read them and also bought the Kindle versions because they were mostly quite cheap--under $6 or $8 for almost all.

So I have been re-reading Pratchet on both Kindle and paper.

It's been great. I can get through them faster without carrying an ackward book. I can make some time and sit down and read a physical book with a greater appreciation of how great that is, both in terms of comfort and psychological well-being. A nice hard cover, even a nice paperback book is a pleasure to hold. The paper, with a good light, is a pleasure to see and read words.

But some of the books on offer now are more expensive. In fact, some of the Kindle versions are more expensive than hard covers or paper backs alike.

I won't see a penny back from the settlement between Amazon and publishers (because it only applies in America, although the books were purchased by me in Canada from an American website which charged me in American dollars from books published in America by American publishers, yada, yada, yada). But I think that this can work if you use your common sense and buy some books in hard cover, some in paper back, and some in purely electronic form.

In my experence, cartoons benefit immensely from being published on paper. The paper matters to cartoonists, some of whom are artists despite the constant grind of technical and economic constraints.

It should matter to the readers.

On the other hand, I have reached the point in my book lover life where books are a physical threat to my safety and happiness unless I have the nerve and judgment to discard a book for a book purchased. I really could and should stop buying books, magazines, CDs, DVDs, and even electronic formats and just use what I have. There is enough here for several lifetimes of entertainment, education and aesthetic experience.

Pratchett has recently published a handful of short stories he did and most of which are available for free online. Most, but probably not all. Should I pay $17.57 for the Kindle book, over $20.00 for the hard cover, and if so, to whom should I pay it?

The Kindle book and the hardcover are about what the hardcovers alone used to cost, but this book is slimmer and I have already read most if not all of it. Yet I want my collection to be complete, and my reading experence to be flexible and portable. I really think I want both the book and the Kindle book, now, now, now. But I know I could easily do without one or the other or possibly both. Buyer's remorse is a risk (not for the book, for the money spent).

I just don't know how much I should be paying, and for what, although I agree that e-books and real books are both great and that they can work well together if the legal flim-flam is handled right. I want them forever, or in realistic terms, until I die and pass some of them on to future generations of readers, some of whom will hopefully be among my heirs and assigns.

If only I had a few hundred feet more space on my shelves. I can't even get decent shelves for what I have. If I knew a carpenter, I might commission some book shelves to my specs that would make this apartment liveable again, but I fear that the book industry isn't the only one which has been nearly wiped out by technology and shlock tactics by corporations, seconded by consumers not willing to pay for the best experience.
 
2012-11-18 05:28:10 PM  
The thing I love most about my Kindles and Kindle apps is that no matter which one I use, it's almost instantly at the right place in whatever book I'm reading at the time. Words cannot express how awesome it is to be able to pull out my phone when I'm stuck waiting somewhere and start reading the same book (in the same place) I was reading the night before in bed on the e-ink or tablet.
 
2012-11-18 05:36:43 PM  
And it doesn't matter when Amazon randomly deletes all your ebooks remotely without reimbursement. After all, the basis of our economy is that any seller always has the right to take their product back at any point after the sale has been made.
 
2012-11-18 05:41:32 PM  
Sorry, I refuse to pay for a product where the company can, whenever they see fit, just turn off my account and render all the "books" that I've paid for unreadable.

Couple that with the fact that E-Books are non-transferable (meaning you can't trade them in at a used bookstore) and/or buy/sell them on eBay, and I will stick with the physical books - for as long as they're being printed, anyway.

I hardly ever buy books "New" anyway; occassionally I will, but usually I just make a trip to a used bookstore about once a month and pick up a grocery sack full at well under 1/3rd the cost of cover price.
 
2012-11-18 05:43:22 PM  

RandomAxe: Disclosure: I manage a used book store that's perpetually on the verge of going out of business.


My sympathies. Bet it's one of the good ones. I used to live near those a few different times in my life, back when Borders and B&N were still ascendant. Occasionally I visit somewhere that has a really good bookstore and get to enjoy it for a bit. There is still one indie store here, actually a tiny chain of 3, but I've stopped going. I just couldn't take their flavor of douchebaggery anymore. I've had people actually sneer or roll their eyes at my selection when checking me out at the register. Last time I was in one an employee got right in front of me where I was browsing and started restocking, without saying excuse me or anything. Their selection was never anything special anyway, and half the store is kids toys and gift shop crap.

I don't go to B&N either except to browse magazines which I never buy.
 
2012-11-18 05:49:56 PM  

DamnYankees: I honestly prefer the Kindle App on my iPad to my actual Kindle.


I hate that Apple nuked all in-app purchases by e-book apps other than Itunes. I think it might have been in response to a patent suit claiming the in-app purchasing process.
 
2012-11-18 05:59:07 PM  

amquelbettamin: I hate turning off my kindle on the airplane takeoff and land. This is when books are best


Pretty much every flight I've been on for the past couple of years, I've seen multiple people simply turn off the screens on their Ipads and phones and put them away. They're still on.

The FAA really needs to establish what really is and isn't important. When you imply that lives are on the line when they obviously aren't, people stop listening to other things you say too.
 
2012-11-18 06:06:18 PM  

Southern100: Sorry, I refuse to pay for a product where the company can, whenever they see fit, just turn off my account and render all the "books" that I've paid for unreadable.


And yet, Amazon isn't the only source for Kindle-compatible e-books.

I don't like that they can turn off my account, so I don't have an account. That doesn't mean I don't have a bunch of ebooks on my Kindle.

Couple that with the fact that E-Books are non-transferable (meaning you can't trade them in at a used bookstore) and/or buy/sell them on eBay, and I will stick with the physical books - for as long as they're being printed, anyway.

I still buy physical books, but if I want to test a new series, getting the e-book from the library is now my new favorite method. And if I own a physical copy, I'll go find an e-book version, if I want it. Not to mention, there's a ton of stuff, particularly classics that are out of copyright, that are 100% free in e-book form, which is amazing for someone who's a fan of classic literature.

I don't use the Kindle as a replacement for my book collection. I use it as a supplement. It's also crazy portable, since fitting that thin slab in my briefcase is a lot easier than fitting the 3-4 books I'd want to be carrying for a trip that lasted more than a week or so.

The main reason I'd ever want to sell a book anyway is to clear out shelf space. With a e-books, that's a complete non-factor, since file sizes are so ridiculously tiny that storage is practically free.
 
2012-11-18 06:09:22 PM  

kronicfeld: I've read a few books on my iPad, but I really just can't stay focused on them. Maybe it's what I've read, but I find it much easier to sit and plow through 100 pages of a bound book than an e-book.


The iPad is a piss-poor ebook reader. I have a Kindle e-ink, a Kindle Fire and an iPad 2 to read books on. The Kindle fire has been given to my daughter (who plays games on it), the IPad is used as a tablet, not to read books on and the old original Kindle is used for all my "book" reading. And I read a LOT of books.

The advantage of an ebook reader over a printed book is that of storage space. I just measured two shelves on my office book case - five and a half feet of ten inch high obsolete computer manuals. What a waste! The computer books on my Kindle don't take up any additional room and are easily discarded when they become obsolete. It's come to the point where I won't buy a paperback book anymore.

Note the word "paperback" above. I'm about to place a hundred dollar deposit on a translation of an 18th century french book on marquetry. The total cost will be around four hundred dollars and cheap at the price. Despite the fact that the Académie française was established in 1635, the meaning of technical terms had been lost until a dedicated group of people pieced them back together. It took four years to translate this book into modern english. For some things, there is no replacement for the printed book.
 
2012-11-18 06:50:26 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Now that Kindle books are priced at or even above physical book prices, I'll probably just buy physical books going forward.


Actually Amazon recently won a judgement that will allow them to charge what they like for the e-books (Apple and the major publishing houses were colluding and price=fixing)

ladyfortuna: My husband got a free Kindle at work and ended up giving it to me since he never used it. I have about 25 books in .rtf that I bought when Baen publishing opened their entire backlog for purchase a la 'Humble Bundle' pricing. Amazon of course won't let me just transfer them over, I have to send each one separately to be converted or some horse-shiat. Hence why I haven't gotten around to it yet.


Don't they still give you a USB cable? I know it takes all of 3 minutes to download in the Kindle format from Baen and move them to your Kindle via a cable. I wouldn't use whisper net for anything but Amazon products. I've made extensive use of Baen, both their free library and purchasing crap. The Kindle reads just about all formats and if it doesn't Callibre can change the file to something it can.
 
2012-11-18 07:01:40 PM  

DoctorCal: patternmatch: DoctorCal: Kimpak: DoctorCal: FirstNationalBastard: See, I can't throw support behind a device that will allow someone to delete books I paid for on a whim.

No one will be deleting my paperback copy of a novel because some bullshiat terms of service changed or a licensing agreement ran out.

Or because you stopped paying a subscription fee

Or, you could...you know back up the file from your kindle. If amazon pulls the licence you just load the thing back on from your back up and turn wireless off till you finish it.

Oh. So....steal it? I don't need a kindle to do that.

If you've already paid for it, and are taking steps to prevent it being taken away from you, how is that "stealing" it?

What is this "it" that you thing has been paid for? If you think it's ownership of a digital copy of a book, you're entirely mistaken.


I am well aware of the one-sided "licensing" crap that prevails in the industry. My point is that retaining an electronic copy of a work in defiance of such one-sided licensing crap is not morally equivalent to stealing.  And it should not be legally so, either...perhaps one day the pendulum will swing back in favor of the people.
 
2012-11-18 07:02:20 PM  

Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener: saintwrathchild: Pipe down, Moses.

>:-/

*says something disparaging about the Steve Guttenberg printing press from afar*


Spoken like a true stonecutter...
 
2012-11-18 07:03:09 PM  

4tehsnowflakes: DamnYankees: I honestly prefer the Kindle App on my iPad to my actual Kindle.

I hate that Apple nuked all in-app purchases by e-book apps other than Itunes. I think it might have been in response to a patent suit claiming the in-app purchasing process.


Apple didn't nuke it, Amzon and other withdrew in-app purchases because Apple wanted a 30% cut of all in app sales. Amazon and B&N aren't making 30% on books or audiobooks so they would lose money on every in-app purchase from a iDevice.
 
2012-11-18 07:05:48 PM  

theflatline: Ebooks have a warmer, heavier sound.


I've never heard an Ebook, but I doubt you're surprised about that
 
2012-11-18 07:09:55 PM  

RandomAxe: All_Farked_Up: Amazon is actually one of the better ones as individuals can sell their own books without a publishing contract.

Yes, but this is ridiculous on its face. You ought to be able to buy content directly from the individuals, online, or through any licensed third-party merchant. Piracy is obviously an issue, but proprietary formats that consumers are slaved to are bullshiat. Kindle owners, for instance, generally don't realize how they've tied their genitals to Amazon until Amazon decides to drive off in a huff.


There is a plugin for Calibre which allows you to strip all DRM from a kindle book. Arrggghhhh...no slavery be here...

/ Hurray for DRM-free .MOBI format
/ Also Kindle App on Ipad2 or 3 is the best out there - you get 318ppi resolution (better then normal 300dpi print quality)
 
2012-11-18 07:23:14 PM  
My Kindle is useful to me for one reason - I live abroad, and English-language books are expensive and, unless you just want bestsellers, often a pain in the ass to acquire. So now rather than either paying through the nose or bringing an extra suitcase to "stock up" on books during trips home, I have access to a wealth of reading material.

I picked up a Paperwhite on my last visit...I feel like it's the first e-reader that's finally getting close to what I want out of one. Good display, and the backlighting makes it a hell of a lot easier to read in less-than-ideal lighting. Tablets and phones are designed for crap like Angry Birds, not reading. Give me e-ink or give me death.

That said, if I was still in the US, I doubt I'd own one. Not because I'm some luddite, but because I prefer to keep my library manageable by reselling books on Amazon/Ebay/to local used bookstores when I'm done, if I don't think they're ones I'll re-read. Besides clearing shelf space, it also helps to fund yet more book purchases.

There's no such thing as a used e-book, and Amazon/Apple/the publishers are going to make damn sure there never will be.

/Internet high-five to whoever mentioned Bookman's upthread
 
2012-11-18 07:29:15 PM  

Nefarious: HotIgneous Intruder:
ladyfortuna: My husband got a free Kindle at work and ended up giving it to me since he never used it. I have about 25 books in .rtf that I bought when Baen publishing opened their entire backlog for purchase a la 'Humble Bundle' pricing. Amazon of course won't let me just transfer them over, I have to send each one separately to be converted or some horse-shiat. Hence why I haven't gotten around to it yet.

Don't they still give you a USB cable? I know it takes all of 3 minutes to download in the Kindle format from Baen and move them to your Kindle via a cable. I wouldn't use whisper net for anything but Amazon products. I've made extensive use of Baen, both their free library and purchasing crap. The Kindle reads just about all formats and if it doesn't Callibre can change the file to something it can.


I bought them a couple of years before I got the Kindle; yeah, I have the cable, but I was under the impression freaking .rtf should easily go on just about any e-reader, so I haven't looked into figuring out what login I used to buy them the first time, much less redownloading them if I am even able to.

I'm in college and running a business, I've hardly had time to read anything more than Fark for three months now, so its not exactly high priority at this point.
 
2012-11-18 07:35:36 PM  

patternmatch:
I am well aware of the one-sided "licensing" crap that prevails in the industry. My point is that retaining an electronic copy of a work in defiance of such one-sided licensing crap is not morally equivalent to stealing.  And it should not be legally so, either...perhaps one day the pendulum will swing back in favor of the people.


Not only is it "not stealing", in a lot of nations (like my home country, Canada) it's your explicit right to do whatever the hell you want to your media for your own personal use. It only becomes an issue if you start distributing it in some fashion.

Just like you could always record a radio broadcast of a song onto a mix tape, you can change your ebook files to whatever format you like. Portraying that as "stealing" is beyond ridiculous.

And yes, if I could download a goddamn car, of course I would. If that means car companies go bankrupt; so be it. We've got freely downloadable cars; we don't need the car manufacturers any more. Kind of like how farriers aren't in high demand lately, either. Your business being archaic and unnecessary does not mean you have the legal right to force people to use it rather than the better, cheaper alternative.
 
2012-11-18 07:59:19 PM  

FitzShivering:
/plus, it fits in even the smallest pocket!



I'm a girl, I'm pretty our pockets are merely for decorative purposes, seriously, I can't even fit a phone in my pocket...or my keys.....
 
2012-11-18 09:27:42 PM  

El Brujo: I read almost exclusively on my iphone / kindle app. I love it.


Right there with you. Read the currently available books of 'A Song of Ice and Fire' on Kindle app on my iPhone 4. That retina screen is very easy on the eyes, and can go reverse video and read in bed very easily as well.
 
2012-11-18 10:28:13 PM  
i bought my parents a pair of kindles for their birthdays/anniversary... they love it. no more trips back and forth to the library,
 
2012-11-19 12:15:52 AM  
Progress. You may want to be on that train when it leaves the station next time.
 
2012-11-19 01:31:22 AM  
All you people talking about paying for e-books clearly never figured out how to work the system. Download the book of your choice on your Kindle, turn off you wifi, and then proceed to return said e-book and get your money back. Just as long as you keep your wifi off until you finish the book, you're golden.

I'm not even being a crook. A guy I know that works in the Kindle department of Amazon told me. I basically use Amazon as my personal library.
 
2012-11-19 06:52:58 AM  

Urinal Cake Mix: All you people talking about paying for e-books clearly never figured out how to work the system.


Either that, or we, you know, want someone to be paid for their efforts. Or something.
 
2012-11-19 12:14:19 PM  

amquelbettamin: I hate turning off my kindle on the airplane takeoff and land. This is when books are best
[us.123rf.com image 300x200]


So you suggest that an entire business model be saved because you need to keep reading for the ten minutes those mean stewards make you turn off your book?
 
2012-11-19 01:23:21 PM  

Urinal Cake Mix: All you people talking about paying for e-books clearly never figured out how to work the system. Download the book of your choice on your Kindle, turn off you wifi, and then proceed to return said e-book and get your money back. Just as long as you keep your wifi off until you finish the book, you're golden.

I'm not even being a crook. A guy I know that works in the Kindle department of Amazon told me. I basically use Amazon as my personal library.


If you have Prime, they actually lend books anyway, though I've never looked into it. My Prime membership pays for itself usually within a few months of renewal, since this shiat-hole region doesn't have any good stores.
 
2012-11-19 01:43:11 PM  

Urinal Cake Mix: All you people talking about paying for e-books clearly never figured out how to work the system. Download the book of your choice on your Kindle, turn off you wifi, and then proceed to return said e-book and get your money back. Just as long as you keep your wifi off until you finish the book, you're golden.

I'm not even being a crook. A guy I know that works in the Kindle department of Amazon told me. I basically use Amazon as my personal library.


So, you're a thief then. Good to know, ass-fark. As someone who writes farking novels, just let me show you to this big bowl of dicks I'd like you to eat before you die in a fire. Just because Metalica were douchebags doesn't mean that artists should be compensated for taking huge amounts of time to create art for your enjoyment. It's not all Ganja and Cappuccinos - writing a book that's worth a damn is hard.

So the next time you do your amazon trick... no ... never mind... just eat the dicks and go die burning. The world will not miss you.
 
2012-11-19 09:53:39 PM  

plewis: Urinal Cake Mix: All you people talking about paying for e-books clearly never figured out how to work the system. Download the book of your choice on your Kindle, turn off you wifi, and then proceed to return said e-book and get your money back. Just as long as you keep your wifi off until you finish the book, you're golden.

I'm not even being a crook. A guy I know that works in the Kindle department of Amazon told me. I basically use Amazon as my personal library.

So, you're a thief then. Good to know, ass-fark. As someone who writes farking novels, just let me show you to this big bowl of dicks I'd like you to eat before you die in a fire. Just because Metalica were douchebags doesn't mean that artists should be compensated for taking huge amounts of time to create art for your enjoyment. It's not all Ganja and Cappuccinos - writing a book that's worth a damn is hard.

So the next time you do your amazon trick... no ... never mind... just eat the dicks and go die burning. The world will not miss you.


You'd think an author would be better with words.
 
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