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(Washington Post)   While the Petraeus investigation hasn't revealed a crime, it has shown the extent of the FBI's electronic surveillance capabilities. "You ask them for e-mails relevant to the investigation, but they let you look at everything"   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 120
    More: Interesting, CIA Director David H. Petraeus, FBI, investigation, u.s. wars, Rebecca Jarvis, J. Edgar Hoover, capability management, e-mails  
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6884 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Nov 2012 at 9:08 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-18 02:13:43 PM

jso2897: I really didn't think you had anything constructive to offer.


Why don't you try not defending the actions of a lying ass politician?
 
2012-11-18 02:15:31 PM

BullBearMS: jso2897: I really didn't think you had anything constructive to offer.

Why don't you try not defending the actions of a lying ass politician?


Sitting on your ass whining about it on Fark isn't going to do anything.

Go out there and do something about it.
 
2012-11-18 02:21:20 PM
Fascism in America, live it and love it, it is NEVER going away.
 
2012-11-18 02:21:22 PM

Mrtraveler01: Sitting on your ass whining about it on Fark isn't going to do anything.


If you want to whine about people criticizing your favorite politician, go back to the politics tab.
 
2012-11-18 02:24:33 PM

BullBearMS: jso2897: I really didn't think you had anything constructive to offer.

Why don't you try not defending the actions of a lying ass politician?


So what positive, constructive course of action do you propose? (for the umpteenth time)

P.S. I know I'm not going to get a straight answer.
 
2012-11-18 02:38:06 PM

jso2897: BullBearMS: jso2897: I really didn't think you had anything constructive to offer.

Why don't you try not defending the actions of a lying ass politician?

So what positive, constructive course of action do you propose? (for the umpteenth time)

P.S. I know I'm not going to get a straight answer.


My constructive course of action is to tell you two idiots to go back to the politics tab if you're just going to whine about people criticizing your favorite politician.

There's a whole retarded section of Fark just for that purpose.

For some of us, ragging on Bush for his civil liberties record wasn't just one big long concern troll.

Something tells me you weren't the least bit concerned that people criticized Bush for his bullshiat, though.
 
2012-11-18 02:58:51 PM

BullBearMS: jso2897: BullBearMS: jso2897: I really didn't think you had anything constructive to offer.

Why don't you try not defending the actions of a lying ass politician?

So what positive, constructive course of action do you propose? (for the umpteenth time)

P.S. I know I'm not going to get a straight answer.

My constructive course of action is to tell you two idiots to go back to the politics tab if you're just going to whine about people criticizing your favorite politician.

There's a whole retarded section of Fark just for that purpose.

For some of us, ragging on Bush for his civil liberties record wasn't just one big long concern troll.

Something tells me you weren't the least bit concerned that people criticized Bush for his bullshiat, though.


You are mistaken - but it's obvious that you are unable or unwilling to accept that your assessment of other people's positions could possibly be incorrect. But this thread is on this tab - and if it is inappropriate for me to post my observations on the matter here, it is for you as well. Ordering other people to shut up over the Internet is kind of pointless - this isn't free Republic, where you can silence those who dare to question your views.
It's pretty obvious that you just want to rant at me and others for not hating on Obama quite enough to suit you - you don't have anything of any real substance to contribute to the discussion, and you are a good example of why this "scandal" is getting laughed out of the public debate.
And, of course, as I have pointed out - you have no useful or constructive course of action to propose to me other than that I shut up, go away, and stop confronting you with the fact that you have no clear or focused or useful ideas to contribute.
 
2012-11-18 03:30:32 PM
Ignoring the whiny farkers, Obama has consistently tried to expand the surveillance state at every turn.

He has consistently tried to shut down every court case against the lawless Bush excesses:

The Obama administration is urging the Supreme Court to halt a legal challenge weighing the constitutionality of a once-secret warrantless surveillance program targeting Americans' communications

Then he has even created his own secret interpretation of the Patriot Act that allows him to act in ways that some in the Senate have been warning of for some time.

For more than two years, a handful of Democrats on the Senate intelligence committee have warned that the government is secretly interpreting its surveillance powers under the Patriot Act in a way that would be alarming if the public - or even others in Congress - knew about it.

One of the members of the NSA has resigned in protest and has turned whistle blower.

In his first television interview since he resigned from the National Security Agency over its domestic surveillance program, William Binney discusses the NSA's massive power to spy on Americans and why the FBI raided his home after he became a whistleblower. Binney was a key source for investigative journalist James Bamford's recent exposé in Wired Magazine about how the NSA is quietly building the largest spy center in the country in Bluffdale, Utah. The Utah spy center will contain near-bottomless databases to store all forms of communication collected by the agency, including private emails, cellphone calls, Google searches and other personal data.

Binney served in the NSA for over 30 years, including a time as technical director of the NSA's World Geopolitical and Military Analysis Reporting Group. Since retiring from the NSA in 2001, he has warned that the NSA's data-mining program has become so vast that it could "create an Orwellian state."
 

It's lovely indeed to see the security state start eating itself.

If the head of the CIA's private life isn't safe, yours certainly isn't either.
 
2012-11-18 04:19:35 PM

BullBearMS: Ignoring the whiny farkers, Obama has consistently tried to expand the surveillance state at every turn.

He has consistently tried to shut down every court case against the lawless Bush excesses:

The Obama administration is urging the Supreme Court to halt a legal challenge weighing the constitutionality of a once-secret warrantless surveillance program targeting Americans' communications

Then he has even created his own secret interpretation of the Patriot Act that allows him to act in ways that some in the Senate have been warning of for some time.

For more than two years, a handful of Democrats on the Senate intelligence committee have warned that the government is secretly interpreting its surveillance powers under the Patriot Act in a way that would be alarming if the public - or even others in Congress - knew about it.

One of the members of the NSA has resigned in protest and has turned whistle blower.

In his first television interview since he resigned from the National Security Agency over its domestic surveillance program, William Binney discusses the NSA's massive power to spy on Americans and why the FBI raided his home after he became a whistleblower. Binney was a key source for investigative journalist James Bamford's recent exposé in Wired Magazine about how the NSA is quietly building the largest spy center in the country in Bluffdale, Utah. The Utah spy center will contain near-bottomless databases to store all forms of communication collected by the agency, including private emails, cellphone calls, Google searches and other personal data.

Binney served in the NSA for over 30 years, including a time as technical director of the NSA's World Geopolitical and Military Analysis Reporting Group. Since retiring from the NSA in 2001, he has warned that the NSA's data-mining program has become so vast that it could "create an Orwellian state."  

It's lovely indeed to see the security state start eating itself.

If the head of the CIA's private life ...


So what do you propose that we, as citizens, do about it? Vote for somebody twice as bad?
What's your plan, Stan?
 
2012-11-18 04:56:43 PM
Civil libertarians have long had a dysfunctional relationship with the Democratic Party, which treats them as a captive voting bloc with nowhere else to turn in elections. Not even this history, however, prepared civil libertarians for Obama. After the George W. Bush years, they were ready to fight to regain ground lost after Sept. 11. Historically, this country has tended to correct periods of heightened police powers with a pendulum swing back toward greater individual rights. Many were questioning the extreme measures taken by the Bush administration, especially after the disclosure of abuses and illegalities. Candidate Obama capitalized on this swing and portrayed himself as the champion of civil liberties.

However, President Obama not only retained the controversial Bush policies, he expanded on them. The earliest, and most startling, move came quickly. Soon after his election, various military and political figures reported that Obama reportedly promised Bush officials in private that no one would be investigated or prosecuted for torture. In his first year, Obama made good on that promise, announcing that no CIA employee would be prosecuted for torture. Later, his administration refused to prosecute any of the Bush officials responsible for ordering or justifying the program and embraced the "just following orders" defense for other officials, the very defense rejected by the United States at the Nuremberg trials after World War II.


However, this is a bit off. While Obama did refuse to hold anyone who ordered, or carried out torture under Bush responsible for their actions, one person has been put into prison.

The CIA agent who blew the whistle on America's illegal use of torture.
 
2012-11-18 05:18:27 PM
Account created: 2009-08-13 15:21:49
Ok. So you have never actually gone after Bush about this here - or, probably anywhere. Just another RW Obama basher, butthurt that the white boy lost, and mounting fake-assed, insincere attacks on the President for no actual purpose but to relieve his butthurt.
He has no plan of action to propose, beyond the implication that we should have responded to these issues by electing somebody a thousand times worse.
What a phoney. I wonder how many other lies you told in the course of this rant.
 
2012-11-18 05:47:06 PM

jso2897: Account created: 2009-08-13 15:21:49


That's very interesting.
 
2012-11-18 05:53:48 PM
Also, it's worth mentioning that the Obama administration not only prevented the British victims of American rendition from having their day in court in the US (by invoking the State Secrets doctrine he claimed to find offensive when used by Bush, naturally).

He also worked to prevent victims from having their day in a British court by threatening to withhold intelligence information from our British allies, if the British government refused to conceal evidence.

This is frankly despicable behavior. We're not just talking about waterboarding here.

Mr Mohamed's genitals were sliced with a scalpel and other torture methods so extreme that waterboarding, the controversial technique of simulated drowning, "is very far down the list of things they did," the official said.
 
2012-11-18 06:05:22 PM

St_Francis_P: jso2897: Account created: 2009-08-13 15:21:49

That's very interesting.


Isn't it, though?
 
2012-11-18 06:08:54 PM
 
2012-11-18 06:57:49 PM

BullBearMS: If the head of the CIA's private life isn't safe, yours certainly isn't either.


Way to ruin what could have otherwise been a good point.

People with enormous control over classified info that are irresponsible enough to put them in a black-mailable position are too irresponsible for that position.
 
2012-11-18 07:58:07 PM

jso2897: St_Francis_P: jso2897: Mean Daddy: No crime yet. The president and his accomplices in the media tell a story 180 degrees contrary to the general. The media laps it up, a film maker goes to jail and not a peep out of the liberal first amendment lover Larry Flynt. Does that about cover it?

You forgot Reverend Wright and the Lizard people. And the squirrels - don't forget the squirrels.

What about ACORN? I'm sure they're right in the thick of this.

Look, f**ker - it's 7:25 AM in California, and I have had exactly one half of one cup of coffee - a little slack here, if you don't mind?


I think I internet love you.
 
2012-11-18 10:56:23 PM

XveryYpettyZ: incendi: XveryYpettyZ: Can you cite a single case in the last 20 years of a retired officer on a pension being brought up on charges under the the UCMJ?

Just because they don't, doesn't mean they can't. 

/It'd be a silly waste of resources to try and prosecute retirees for bullshiat all the time.

The fact that they don't ever prosecute retirees, and won't in this case, is a pretty firm indicator that the UCMJ is completely irrelevant to the Patraeus issue.


From TFA:

In this case, Schiff said, the probe may have caused more harm than it uncovered. "It's very possible that the most significant damage done to national security was the loss of General Petraeus himself," Schiff said.


Ah, the delicious taste of schadenfreude.
 
2012-11-19 12:04:40 AM

liam76: BullBearMS: If the head of the CIA's private life isn't safe, yours certainly isn't either.

Way to ruin what could have otherwise been a good point.

People with enormous control over classified info that are irresponsible enough to put them in a black-mailable position are too irresponsible for that position.


He isn't willing to discuss anything - he just wants to bash Obama. And it's too bad, really, because he started out making a good point. We have been allowing our civil liberties to be eroded in time of war since before any of us were born. From the Alien and Sedition act right up through today. It's happened under our worst Presidents, and our best. It doesn't seem to make any difference. And it would be useful to discuss what we might do about it. But his interest in the issue seems to begin and end with yelling at Obama. Who can't even hear him. Oh well.
 
2012-11-19 02:59:05 AM
newspaper revelations last week about the "kill list" showed the Obama administration defines a militant as any military-age male in the strike zone when its drone attacks. That has raised the hackles of many who saw Obama as somehow more sophisticated on terrorism issues than his predecessor, George W Bush. But Guiora does not view it that way. He sees Obama as the same as Bush, just much more enthusiastic when it comes to waging drone war. "If Bush did what Obama has been doing, then journalists would have been all over it," he said.

But the "kill list" and rapidly expanded drone programme are just two of many aspects of Obama's national security policy that seem at odds with the expectations of many supporters in 2008. Having come to office on a powerful message of breaking with Bush, Obama has in fact built on his predecessor's national security tactics.

Obama has presided over a massive expansion of secret surveillance of American citizens by the National Security Agency. He has launched a ferocious and unprecedented crackdown on whistleblowers. He has made more government documents classified than any previous president. He has broken his promise to close down the controversial Guantánamo Bay prison and pressed on with prosecutions via secretive military tribunals, rather than civilian courts. He has preserved CIA renditions. He has tried to grab broad new powers on what defines a terrorist or a terrorist supporter and what can be done with them, often without recourse to legal process.

Aaron David Miller, a long-term Middle East policy adviser to both Republican and Democratic administrations, delivered a damning verdict in a recent issue of Foreign Policy magazine. He wrote bluntly: "Barack Obama has become George W Bush on steroids."

Many disillusioned supporters would agree. Jesselyn Radack was a justice department ethics adviser under Bush who became a whistleblower over violations of the legal rights of "American Taliban" John Walker Lindh. Now Radack works for the Government Accountability Project, defending fellow whistleblowers. She campaigned for Obama, donated money and voted for him. Now she has watched his administration - which promised transparency and whistleblower protection - crack down on national security whistleblowers.

It has used the Espionage Act - an obscure first world war anti-spy law - six times. That is more such uses in three years than all previous presidents combined.

Cases include John Kiriakou, a CIA agent who leaked details of waterboarding, and Thomas Drake, who revealed the inflated costs of an NSA data collection project that had been contracted out. "We did not see this coming. Obama has led the most brutal crackdown on whistleblowers ever," Radack said.

"We are seeing the reversal of the proper flow of information between the government and the governed. It is probably the fundamental civil liberties issue of our time," said Elizabeth Goitein, a national security expert at the Brennan Centre for Justice. "The national security establishment is getting bigger and bigger."

One astonishing example of this lies high in the mountain deserts of Utah. This is the innocuously named Utah Data Centre being built for the NSA near a tiny town called Bluffdale. When completed next year, the heavily fortified $2bn building, which is self-sufficient with its own power plant, will be five times the size of the US Capitol in Washington DC. It will house gigantic servers that will store vast amounts of data from ordinary Americans that will be sifted and mined for intelligence clues. It will cover everything from phone calls to emails to credit card receipts.


Obama's record on Civil Liberties is much, much worse than that of Bush. It's a shame any of the politics tab tards would even be willing to try to make excuses for this.
 
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