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(CNN)   Shiat is getting even more serious   (cnn.com) divider line 377
    More: Followup, Operation Cast Lead, Gaza, Benjamin Netanyahu, Israelis, Prime Minister of Turkey, Palestinian militants, Egyptian President, Israeli Army  
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23084 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Nov 2012 at 8:01 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-18 06:40:57 AM
This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.
 
2012-11-18 06:57:59 AM

Tatsuma: This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.


It's not apartheid if you send trucks of food to your subjects.

/however, both sides are f*cking douchey.
 
2012-11-18 07:02:46 AM

Tatsuma: This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.


Tats, 13 children are dead. A pregnant woman was killed. At some point,trucks of food stop making it right.
 
2012-11-18 07:26:11 AM

ginandbacon: Tats, 13 children are dead. A pregnant woman was killed.


Shocking. Innocent people would die when terrorist governments hide like cowards behind them, and use them as human meatshields for political gain. At least the Israelis make it a point to attempt to avoid Civilian casualties, not purposefully target them with artillery. You know, like HAMAS.

Curiously enough, I see you aren't making an issue of the fact that their Government has made it a policy to support the shelling of another sovereign nation with mortars and rockets, despite ostensibly holding a peace/cease fire treaty with them.
 
2012-11-18 07:31:09 AM
Looks like the Israelis are out to test Obama's limits.

I wonder what'd happen if America started holding neocons responsible as collaborators.
 
2012-11-18 07:33:11 AM

BronyMedic: ginandbacon: Tats, 13 children are dead. A pregnant woman was killed.

Shocking. Innocent people would die when terrorist governments hide like cowards behind them, and use them as human meatshields for political gain. At least the Israelis make it a point to attempt to avoid Civilian casualties, not purposefully target them with artillery. You know, like HAMAS.

Curiously enough, I see you aren't making an issue of the fact that their Government has made it a policy to support the shelling of another sovereign nation with mortars and rockets, despite ostensibly holding a peace/cease fire treaty with them.


What you mean, "another sovereign nation," kemosabe?
 
2012-11-18 07:35:05 AM

BronyMedic: ginandbacon: Tats, 13 children are dead. A pregnant woman was killed.

Shocking. Innocent people would die when terrorist governments hide like cowards behind them, and use them as human meatshields for political gain. At least the Israelis make it a point to attempt to avoid Civilian casualties, not purposefully target them with artillery. You know, like HAMAS.

Curiously enough, I see you aren't making an issue of the fact that their Government has made it a policy to support the shelling of another sovereign nation with mortars and rockets, despite ostensibly holding a peace/cease fire treaty with them.


*sigh*

Yeah, I totally love Hamas. Three Israelis are dead in this most recent idiocy. You think I don't mourn them? We have 50 Palestinians dead (at least) and three Israelis. Enough. It's just more of the same. Israel has been using collective punishment for decades.

Do you think it's working?
 
2012-11-18 07:35:06 AM

ginandbacon: Tatsuma: This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.

Tats, 13 children are dead. A pregnant woman was killed. At some point,trucks of food stop making it right.


I think when you see people posing for photos as dead, then coming back to life to go to the next photo shoot, or pictures of dead Palestinian children that prompts outrage at Israel which turn out to be actually a picture of an Israeli child killed by a Palestinian rocket, or pictures of victims of Israeli attacks which actually turn out to be images recycled from earlier in the year in Syria then you lose all respect for any claim made by a Palestinian.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Israel has never done anything bad and never killed children, of course they have but the Palestinians will never get anywhere by lying constantly. Also throwing stones at someone bigger than you doesn't always work out like it did for David. How can people say that Israel are trying to exterminate the Palestinians, in genocide, when they ship in tons of aid supplies? No military commander would advise giving succor to your enemy, but the Israeli's have done a lot to protect Palestinian civilians, over and above anything we've done, over and above anything Palestinians have done. Even when it's been difficult, like when the Palestinians use their own civilians as human shields.

Sometimes I wonder if I fall prey to Israeli propaganda, but I only think that because I can see the Palestinian lies for what they are, so if one side can lie why not the other? But as far as I can see it's just facts.
 
2012-11-18 07:36:08 AM
UPDATES FOR THE LAST 24 HOURS

not a fully comprehensive list, but rather one representing a selection
of less reported news items/major points that need awareness
 
 


Within the last hour:

- Within the last hour, volleys of rockets (at least 30) fired toward Ashdod and Beer Sheva, at least one GRAD hit Beer Sheva.
- Israeli Cabinet currently voting on whether to pursue a ground offensive
- Chief of Staff to IDF: Pick up the pace of strikes in Gaza
- Multiple reports of major Hamas and Islamic Jihad leaders killed, will keep updated


- IDF are dropping leaflets into Gaza: Important Message to Gaza Strip residents: Hamas is playing with fire and endangering your lives for naught. The IDF is proceeding to the next phase. For your own safety, we ask you to adhere to our instructions and distance yourselves from Hamas operatives and infrastructure. Sincerely, THE IDF.


The last 24 hours

- A fifth Israeli died yesterday, a year old man died from a heart attack while running for cover
- 50 were killed in Gaza, 13 of them civilians (with contradicting information from the PHRC, who often claims Hamas and other terrorists as civilians) since beginning of the strikes

- Southern Israel is still under attack, with multiple direct hits on houses and buildings
- Hamas has fired more than 1,200 rockets at Israel this year alone, more than 500 in the last four days. Last year, the total of rockets fired at Israel from Gaza was 627
- Hamas parliament building was destroyed yesterday, included in the now 900+ strikes that have happened in Gaza in the last four days.
- Multiple Fajr-5 missiles were fired at Tel Aviv and toward Jerusalem, but were shot down by the Iron Dome

- Hamas has declared that they are considering starting suicide bombings again, warn the IDF that 'suicide squads' are waiting for them in Gaza. Judean People's Front is now in play.
- Syria claims that Israel killed 3 Syrian soldiers in retaliation attacks in Northern Israel
- NYT reports that the Obama administration is pressing Israel not to enter Gaza
- Rumors of a ceasefire keep popping up in Arab media, but Israeli government denies being ready to accept one, that 'enough is enough'.

- Iran denies that they are the ones who provided the Iranian Fajr-5 to Hamas; Islamic Jihad declared later that from the first missile to last bullet, everything they have comes from Iran
- Hizbullah says that IDF is making a grave mistake if they enter Gaza, that they won't personally be involved because they are busy with Syria, but Egypt should do something about it
- Protests have been happening everywhere in the West Bank, in relatively low numbers.
 
2012-11-18 07:39:34 AM

Slaxl: ginandbacon: Tatsuma: This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.

Tats, 13 children are dead. A pregnant woman was killed. At some point,trucks of food stop making it right.

I think when you see people posing for photos as dead, then coming back to life to go to the next photo shoot, or pictures of dead Palestinian children that prompts outrage at Israel which turn out to be actually a picture of an Israeli child killed by a Palestinian rocket, or pictures of victims of Israeli attacks which actually turn out to be images recycled from earlier in the year in Syria then you lose all respect for any claim made by a Palestinian.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Israel has never done anything bad and never killed children, of course they have but the Palestinians will never get anywhere by lying constantly. Also throwing stones at someone bigger than you doesn't always work out like it did for David. How can people say that Israel are trying to exterminate the Palestinians, in genocide, when they ship in tons of aid supplies? No military commander would advise giving succor to your enemy, but the Israeli's have done a lot to protect Palestinian civilians, over and above anything we've done, over and above anything Palestinians have done. Even when it's been difficult, like when the Palestinians use their own civilians as human shields.

Sometimes I wonder if I fall prey to Israeli propaganda, but I only think that because I can see the Palestinian lies for what they are, so if one side can lie why not the other? But as far as I can see it's just facts.


media.tumblr.com
 
2012-11-18 07:41:08 AM
As far as civilians dying, it is tragic, but Hamas themselves admit that they use civilian shields. Not only do they use them, but its their actual official policy to.

"Fathi Hammad: [The enemies of Allah] do not know that the Palestinian people has developed its [methods] of death and death-seeking. For the Palestinian people, death has become an industry, at which women excel, and so do all the people living on this land. The elderly excel at this, and so do the mujahideen and the children. This is why they have formed human shields of the women, the children, the elderly, and the mujahideen, in order to challenge the Zionist bombing machine. It is as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: "We desire death like you desire life."

The bombs cache that the IDF destroyed were usually next to (sometimes inside) mosques, kindergarten, schools, clinics, etc...


It's incredibly sad when civilians die, but they make it a point that they will die. Israel struck more than 900 targets in Gaza in the last 4 days, and killed 3 terrorists for every civilian who sadly died. I think this is a clear indication that the IDF is doing its utmost best to insure that the lives of innocents will not be ended because of Hamas fighters.
 
2012-11-18 07:42:45 AM
It's interesting to note that the IDF are preparing for their ground offensive by bombing the journalists.
 
2012-11-18 07:45:51 AM

WebSkipper: BronyMedic: ginandbacon: Tats, 13 children are dead. A pregnant woman was killed.

Shocking. Innocent people would die when terrorist governments hide like cowards behind them, and use them as human meatshields for political gain. At least the Israelis make it a point to attempt to avoid Civilian casualties, not purposefully target them with artillery. You know, like HAMAS.

Curiously enough, I see you aren't making an issue of the fact that their Government has made it a policy to support the shelling of another sovereign nation with mortars and rockets, despite ostensibly holding a peace/cease fire treaty with them.

What you mean, "another sovereign nation," kemosabe?


The Palestian Authority has billions in the bank. If their people are living in a world without power, sewage treatment, infrastructure or other means of life, it is because the PA is using them to market the message that Israel is horrible and should be wiped from the planet during the next war.
 
2012-11-18 07:47:12 AM

DammitIForgotMyLogin: It's interesting to note that the IDF are preparing for their ground offensive by bombing the journalists.


Ayman Mohyeldin's reports are chilling.
 
2012-11-18 07:48:09 AM

Slaxl: No military commander would advise giving succor to your enemy, but the Israeli's have done a lot to protect Palestinian civilian


As hundreds of rocket were being fired at the beginning of the week, you had Israeli workers under IDF protection repairing the electricity grid in Gaza. What an awfully genocidal people we are, making sure that the lights are on so they can see the full scope of atrocities!

www.israelnationalnews.com

Basically while rockets were being fired, you had Israeli Electric Company workers on a crane, protected by a huge concrete pane, working to fix the electricity to Gaza, endangering their lives and the lives of the soldiers protecting them to insure that Gaza didn't suffer blackouts.
 
2012-11-18 07:50:35 AM
Israeli Deputy PM Yishai: "We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages destroying all the infrastructure including roads & water"
 
2012-11-18 07:51:38 AM

Tatsuma: Slaxl: No military commander would advise giving succor to your enemy, but the Israeli's have done a lot to protect Palestinian civilian

As hundreds of rocket were being fired at the beginning of the week, you had Israeli workers under IDF protection repairing the electricity grid in Gaza. What an awfully genocidal people we are, making sure that the lights are on so they can see the full scope of atrocities!

[www.israelnationalnews.com image 250x168]

Basically while rockets were being fired, you had Israeli Electric Company workers on a crane, protected by a huge concrete pane, working to fix the electricity to Gaza, endangering their lives and the lives of the soldiers protecting them to insure that Gaza didn't suffer blackouts.


Yeah I know, it's admirable. You didn't think I was being critical of Israel there did you?
 
2012-11-18 07:54:55 AM
"The sites hit in Gaza early Sunday included buildings used by Britain's Sky News channel and the Dubai-based pan-Arab broadcaster al-Arabiya, the news organizations reported. At least six journalists were wounded, according to a health ministry spokesman in Gaza quoted by wire services." Link
 
2012-11-18 07:55:18 AM

DammitIForgotMyLogin: It's interesting to note that the IDF are preparing for their ground offensive by bombing the journalists.


Yes indeed, it has everything to do with the IDF wanted to kill journalists, and not, for example, this (video included)

Footage of a presenter on the Arabic language television station Al-Arabiya apparently confirms that Hamas fired at least one rocket from close to a building used by journalists during the 22-day conflict between Israel and Hamas in the Gaza Strip.

The Israel Defense Forces shelled the building, drawing international condemnation, and television networks with offices in the building denied that rockets had been launched from anywhere nearby.

But the recording, filmed by an Israeli and released Tuesday by Israel's Foreign Ministry, shows Al-Arabiya presenter Hanan Al-Masri saying that a Grad rocket had been fired from a location near the studios at Al-Shuruk tower in Gaza City. Al-Masri did not realize that she had been caught on camera.

Al-Masri, a Gaza resident, has been a reporter for Al-Arabiya for three years. She is filmed discussing other issues until she is apparently distracted by the firing.

"...A rocket from here? It's here," she says and turns to look at a window. "Listen, it's here, below the building..."

The production team tells Al-Masri that a rocket has been fired from a nearby location. She then calls someone and says: "The rocket that was just fired from here is a Grad?... It's as if it was fired from beneath the office. It was very loud. I thought it was bombing but it was a rocket launch."

The Foreign Ministry says the film is proof that Hamas had fired from the area of the studios.



Or the fact, that, as the IDF declared:

The IDF struck a building housing two international media outlets early Sunday morning, hours after striking another building housing a number of media outlets, the affected media outlets reported. Six journalists were injured in the first strike but no injuries were reported in the second strike.

Sky News Arabia and Al-Arabiya said their offices were hit in the second strike.

The first strike hit a building housing Palestinian Ma'an and Al Quds television stations. Five Al Quds employees and one freelancer were injured in that strike. Iran's PressTV later said the sixth injury was one of its cameramen.

The IDF said the first strike targeted a rooftop "transmission antenna used by Hamas to carry out terror activity."



Nope, we're just trying to kill journalists, because fark them.
 
2012-11-18 07:57:41 AM

Slaxl: Yeah I know, it's admirable. You didn't think I was being critical of Israel there did you?


No, I was just adding to what you were saying. Figured it was a good time for it
 
2012-11-18 08:05:26 AM
Nice to see our favourite pro-Israel shill out in full force this fine Sunday morning.

Nothing like shooting fish in a barrel (eg., Gaza), eh IDF?
 
2012-11-18 08:06:35 AM
Israel does not want to start a guerrilla war.
 
2012-11-18 08:07:12 AM

Tatsuma: This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.


Ah the suffering of civilians suffering. Are you very redundant very often when you're being redundant?

Sorry, it's late here and I've been drinking.

And for some reason I get the feeling that this isn't just going to be the usual skirmish that regularly takes place between Israel and her neighbors. Maybe it is - Seriously, ask any average American about this situation. If they're even aware of it their reaction will probably be Hamas or Hezbollah are lobbing rockets at Israel and Israel is retaliating? So what's new? (That is if they don't have to have Hamas explained to them).

I will admit that I'm not very informed but what does Hamas hope to gain by lobbing rockets into Israel? Do they have any sort of reasonable demands that could be addressed? Or is their stance simply that Israel should cease to exist? Seems like a horribly naive question to ask, but it's probably one which should be answered before we move on to the more complicated questions.
 
2012-11-18 08:08:12 AM
Well, that's my limit for propaganda today.
 
2012-11-18 08:09:20 AM

Happy Hours: I will admit that I'm not very informed but what does Hamas hope to gain by lobbing rockets into Israel?


War of attrition, trying to make us lose moral, being dicks.

Happy Hours: Do they have any sort of reasonable demands that could be addressed?


No, you nailed it:

Happy Hours: Or is their stance simply that Israel should cease to exist?


Pretty much
 
2012-11-18 08:10:08 AM

ginandbacon: Israeli Deputy PM Yishai: "We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages destroying all the infrastructure including roads & water"


You forgot to paste the link to the source for that.
 
2012-11-18 08:10:09 AM

BalugaJoe: Israel does not want to start a guerrilla war.


The IDF is essentially already dealing with a guerilla war. If there was a formal war this would be a lot simpler.
 
2012-11-18 08:12:00 AM

taurusowner: You forgot to paste the link to the source for that.


Google search pretty much shows this is bullshiat.
 
2012-11-18 08:13:01 AM

Tatsuma: Happy Hours: I will admit that I'm not very informed but what does Hamas hope to gain by lobbing rockets into Israel?

War of attrition, trying to make us lose moral, being dicks.
=h


upload.wikimedia.org

/Hot like a train going in a tunnel
 
2012-11-18 08:14:57 AM

MFAWG: /Hot like a train going in a tunnel


I am having discussions and listening to media in three different languages, give me a break
 
2012-11-18 08:15:18 AM
I hope not. Bibi's political posturing isn't worth a single drop of our soldiers' blood. He'll only let the ground forces stay in for as long as he can withstand the international backlash, then pull the cord.
 
2012-11-18 08:15:34 AM
who gives a shiat about any of this stuff?
 
2012-11-18 08:16:05 AM

ThunderPelvis: Tatsuma: This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.

It's not apartheid if you send trucks of food to your subjects.

/however, both sides are f*cking douchey.


has anyone signed an armistice following the 1973 war?
might be time to get around to that if you are the representatives of the Palestinian people.
you know, so you can get yourself some sort of state perhaps.
you can't refuse to make peace and attack your opponent every other year but simultaneously demand your opponent to respect your sovereignty and borders.
 
2012-11-18 08:16:49 AM
Both sides of this are wrong lying bloodthirsty freaks of the desert.
Neither side deserves a holy land or anything good in life.
I hope they nuke each other into oblivion.
That said, Bibi Netanyahu is going to wear this mess around his neck like a flaming truck tire.
He's being trolled like a boss.

/When either side can present facts that are the truth and both sides STILL look like horrible murderous pigs, you know something bigger is going on here.
 
2012-11-18 08:17:11 AM

Nogale: I hope not. Bibi's political posturing isn't worth a single drop of our soldiers' blood. He'll only let the ground forces stay in for as long as he can withstand the international backlash, then pull the cord.


Yeah that's the annoying thing. Either we go in all the way, or we do not go in at all (except to retake the Philadelphi corridor)

Nogale: I hope not. Bibi's political posturing isn't worth a single drop of our soldiers' blood. He'll only let the ground forces stay in for as long as he can withstand the international backlash, then pull the cord.

 
2012-11-18 08:17:12 AM
This land is mine

God gave this land to me

This brave and ancient land to me
And when the morning sun
Reveals her hills and plains
Then I see a land
where children can run free.

So take my hand
And walk this land with me
And walk this lovely land with me
Tho' I am just a man

When you are by my side

With the help of God
I know I can be strong.

So take my hand
And walk this land with me

And walk this golden land with me.
Tho' I am just a man

When you are by my side

With the help of God
I know I can be strong.

To make this land our home

If I must fight

I'll fight to make this land our own.
Until I die this land is mine!



youthvoices.net
 
2012-11-18 08:17:28 AM

Tatsuma: This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.


I wonder why they can't be self sufficient? I wonder why they are being treated like refugees?
 
2012-11-18 08:18:01 AM

Nogale: I hope not. Bibi's political posturing isn't worth a single drop of our soldiers' blood. He'll only let the ground forces stay in for as long as he can withstand the international backlash, then pull the cord.


You seem to claim the soldiers as yours.
Do something about this politically: Get Bibi the fark out of power, asap.
 
2012-11-18 08:18:12 AM

Tatsuma: MFAWG: /Hot like a train going in a tunnel

I am having discussions and listening to media in three different languages, give me a break


Honestly, I'm a little tired of giving the hard right in the Knesset and their mouthpieces any kind of a break.
 
2012-11-18 08:19:34 AM

taurusowner: ginandbacon: Israeli Deputy PM Yishai: "We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages destroying all the infrastructure including roads & water"

You forgot to paste the link to the source for that.


I saw this on TV. The good news is that noone in Israel will let Yishay anywhere near defense policy.
 
2012-11-18 08:19:38 AM

EyeHateOnlineIdiots: who gives a shiat about any of this stuff?


we meed to detach ourselves from the entire sordid mess. stop sending money to all these assholes. stop giving shiat to israel. pull out the trops from the entire region. etc.
that entire region will always be a clusterf*ck of repression and violence.
 
2012-11-18 08:20:01 AM
The sun also rises in the east. This is a repeat of every day for the last hundred years.
 
2012-11-18 08:20:20 AM

Tatsuma: taurusowner: You forgot to paste the link to the source for that.

Google search pretty much shows this is bullshiat.


Yeah, Bill Neely's a real hack.
 
2012-11-18 08:20:35 AM

MFAWG: Honestly, I'm a little tired of giving the hard right in the Knesset and their mouthpieces any kind of a break.


I'm an MP? Holy shiat, better put on pants.
 
2012-11-18 08:21:08 AM

BalugaJoe: Israel does not want to start a guerrilla war.


A gorilla war however might be kind of fun to watch.


/They'd blow it all up though.
//Damn dirty apes.
 
2012-11-18 08:21:17 AM

shpritz: I saw this on TV. The good news is that noone in Israel will let Yishay anywhere near defense policy.


Can't find a single reliable source on the internet. Been watching the TV and listening to radio, what are you talking about?
 
2012-11-18 08:22:59 AM
Hamas proves that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
 
2012-11-18 08:23:55 AM
These Israel threads are interesting. There are honestly folks who believe that their side is all good. All good, all the time. Oh even when they kill children, they keep the lights on, so that makes it good, right? It just...Wow. The power of nationalism. Somebody learned something from WWII.

Nationalism or they live in Minnesota during football season.
 
2012-11-18 08:26:28 AM
We should turn Israel into a no-fly zone, Libya II.
 
2012-11-18 08:27:30 AM

Tatsuma: shpritz: I saw this on TV. The good news is that noone in Israel will let Yishay anywhere near defense policy.

Can't find a single reliable source on the internet. Been watching the TV and listening to radio, what are you talking about?


It was yesterday evening on Channel 10 I think. He was arguing that the only way to stop the rockets is if we send them back to the 14th century (his words) and then the people of Gaza will demand that Hamas stop shooting.
 
2012-11-18 08:28:15 AM

Tatsuma: MFAWG: Honestly, I'm a little tired of giving the hard right in the Knesset and their mouthpieces any kind of a break.

I'm an MP? Holy shiat, better put on pants.


You are definitely a mouthpiece. Get out there and push the party line at every opportunity.
 
2012-11-18 08:31:47 AM
"Hamas' military wing, the Izzedine al Qassam Brigade, claimed to have fired 34 rockets on Sunday, adding to the more than 900 it says its fired at Israel since the fighting began. A spokesman for the Israel Defense Forces put the number at more than 1,000."

How hard can it be to avoid discrepencies in the number of things that go boom?? It's time to enlist the aid of.....

josh.st 

The Count
 
2012-11-18 08:32:15 AM
 
2012-11-18 08:32:17 AM

ThunderPelvis: It's not apartheid if you send trucks of food to your subjects.

/however, both sides are f*cking douchey.


This is how I feel as well.

Neither side is truely innocent in this case. Especially with Bibi in charge who's done jacksquat to achieve peace between the two parties.

That said, I can't fault Israel for doing what it's doing. But they're the ones that let it get to this point.
 
2012-11-18 08:33:26 AM
I think this was from the Clinton era but nonetheless, it seems so relevant tday....

Netanyahu Unaware of Camera

Bibi:...The Arabs are currently focusing on a war of terror and they think it will break us. The main thing, first of all, is to hit them. Not just one blow, but blows that are so painful that the price will be too heavy to be borne. The price is not too heavy to be borne, now. A broad attack on the Palestinian Authority. To bring them to the point of being afraid that everything is collapsing...

Woman: Wait a moment, but then the world will say "how come you're conquering again?"


Netanyahu: the world won't say a thing. The world will say we're defending.

Woman: Aren't you afraid of the world, Bibi?

Netanyahu: Especially today, with America. I know what America is. America is something that can easily be moved. Moved to the right direction.

Child: They say they're for us, but, it's like...

Netanyahu: They won't get in our way. They won't get in our way.

Child: On the other hand, if we do some something, then they...

Netanyahu: So let's say they say something. So they said it! They said it! 80% of the Americans support us. It's absurd. We have that kind of support and we say "what will we do with the..." Look. That administration [Clinton] was extremely pro-Palestinian. I wasn't afraid to maneuver there. I was not afraid to clash with Clinton. I was not afraid to clash with the United Nations. I was paying the price anyway, I preferred to receive the value. Value for the price. 
 
2012-11-18 08:33:38 AM

MFAWG: You are definitely a mouthpiece. Get out there and push the party line at every opportunity.


So I was pushing the Kadima line before (Left) and now I am pushing the Likud line (Center-Right)?
 
2012-11-18 08:33:51 AM
Hey, and this is just like warm white snow....

i.imgur.com
 
2012-11-18 08:34:10 AM
Is this even news? When isn't the situation utter mayhem in the Gaza Strip?
 
2012-11-18 08:34:26 AM

Mrtraveler01: Especially with Bibi in charge who's done jacksquat to achieve peace between the two parties.


Unlike, you know, constant concessions and saying 'We are ready to negotiate for peace at any time, lets site at the table without preconditions and see what it leads'?
 
2012-11-18 08:35:00 AM
If we cut the fiber intake on both side, will that alleviate some of these shaitting problems? Maybe a nice dose of Colace in their morning coffee?
 
2012-11-18 08:35:51 AM

Tatsuma: This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.


www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com
 
2012-11-18 08:37:01 AM
How about this: everybody puts their weapons down, go back to their own home wherever/whatever that may be, and just let it all go.

It's land. Everyone's land belonged to someone else at some point in history. Is it worth killing and dying for?

I'm so worn down by all the religious strife, all the expansion strife, all the hate, that my empathy gauge is dangerously close to "E."
 
2012-11-18 08:37:19 AM

Tatsuma: Unlike, you know, constant concessions and saying 'We are ready to negotiate for peace at any time, lets site at the table without preconditions and see what it leads'?


While simultaneous building even more settlements and evicting Palestinians from their homes.

Like I said, I don't defend what Gaza is doing, but Israel is not an innocent victim in this matter either. 

That'll happen the moment Israel stops building more settlements/treats Palestinians more than just second class citizens.
 
2012-11-18 08:37:41 AM
If they don't like Gaza then they should move to Beverly Hills.
 
2012-11-18 08:37:59 AM
I'm shocked at the way this thread has gone.
 
2012-11-18 08:38:22 AM

rollersnake: How about this: everybody puts their weapons down, go back to their own home wherever/whatever that may be, and just let it all go.

It's land. Everyone's land belonged to someone else at some point in history. Is it worth killing and dying for?


They could all just move to California and wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
 
2012-11-18 08:39:16 AM

Mrtraveler01: While simultaneous building even more settlements and evicting Palestinians from their homes.


Show me one example of a new settlement under the Bibi administration
 
2012-11-18 08:39:52 AM

Tatsuma: MFAWG: You are definitely a mouthpiece. Get out there and push the party line at every opportunity.

So I was pushing the Kadima line before (Left) and now I am pushing the Likud line (Center-Right)?


You're pushing the Jewish supremacist line. That's all you ever push.
 
2012-11-18 08:41:25 AM

MustTryHarder: You're pushing the Jewish supremacist line. That's all you ever push.


Hey David Duke what's up my man? What you been up to?
 
2012-11-18 08:42:30 AM

Tatsuma: Mrtraveler01: While simultaneous building even more settlements and evicting Palestinians from their homes.

Show me one example of a new settlement under the Bibi administration


Not a new settlement, just expanding an old settlement. Which is contrary to what the International Community wants
 
2012-11-18 08:44:10 AM

Tatsuma: This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.


FFS... Then stop firing missles into Gaza.

3 Isrealies v. 15 Palestinian citizens last I heard

Sounds balanced and fair to me.
 
2012-11-18 08:44:45 AM

Mrtraveler01: Not a new settlement, just expanding an old settlement. Which is contrary to what the International Community wants


The Palestinian Authority has already declared that Pisgat Ze'ev and Ramot will stay part of the Israeli side of the city if Jerusalem is divided. By the way, both of these are integral parts of Jerusalem, and not 'settlements'.

You claimed that Bibi was 'building new settlements', show me one new settlement that was established by his administration.
 
2012-11-18 08:45:29 AM

sno man: FFS... Then stop firing missles into Gaza.


Before we started the current campaign four days ago, they had fired more than 800 missiles in Israel in 2012. Last year, 627.

What do you expect us to do?
 
2012-11-18 08:46:35 AM

Tatsuma: MustTryHarder: You're pushing the Jewish supremacist line. That's all you ever push.

Hey David Duke what's up my man? What you been up to?


What you don't get is that when you throw shiat like this at people they start to question your motives. You are blatantly the worst liar and bullshiat artist this site has ever seen. The agenda you're pushing is so outrageously one sided that for every idiot that falls for it you make a dozen enemies.

I used to support Israel - Western style democracy up against the seething Muslim hordes. But listening to the lies you peddle, the absolutely shameless lies that even Goebbels would be too embarrassed to push, I have long since reconsidered. There are countless people like me here. I don't expect you to listen, but I do enjoy seeing you get outed for what you are.
 
2012-11-18 08:47:15 AM

Tatsuma: The Palestinian Authority has already declared that Pisgat Ze'ev and Ramot will stay part of the Israeli side of the city if Jerusalem is divided. By the way, both of these are integral parts of Jerusalem, and not 'settlements'.


Then how come that's not the message the world is gathering from this?

They seem to think that these are settlements regardless of the fact that they're in Jerusalem.
 
2012-11-18 08:47:51 AM

Mrtraveler01: Tatsuma: Mrtraveler01: While simultaneous building even more settlements and evicting Palestinians from their homes.

Show me one example of a new settlement under the Bibi administration

Not a new settlement, just expanding an old settlement. Which is contrary to what the International Community wants


Also, how would we know about any new settlements when---

In July 2012, the UN Human Rights Council decided to set up a probe into Jewish settlements. Israel responded by saying it would bar the Council's experts from access to the sites.

/stop indulging that boring heel
 
2012-11-18 08:47:58 AM
I had a feeling that Netanyahu launched the current level of the offensive (as opposed to a simple proportionate response) because he feels threatened for the Jan 22 elections, especially after he's been challenged publicly for his support of Mitt Romney and for possibly endangering the relationship with the US.
 
2012-11-18 08:48:06 AM
It's almost like people are still angry that Israel kicked them out of their homes and forced them to live in ghettos for generations. Weird that treating people like animals makes them turn into animals.

Go ahead, defend this because Hamas is made up of " terrorists". I'm pretty sure that's what the Vichy government called the French resistance.
 
2012-11-18 08:48:26 AM
Can't see that shiat from my house.
 
2012-11-18 08:49:14 AM

RexTalionis: I had a feeling that Netanyahu launched the current level of the offensive (as opposed to a simple proportionate response) because he feels threatened for the Jan 22 elections, especially after he's been challenged publicly for his support of Mitt Romney and for possibly endangering the relationship with the US.


I thought the polls showed Bibi and the Likud's taking the election without much of a fight.
 
2012-11-18 08:49:32 AM
I didn't read most of the Derp, so I'm sure this has been posted. But what do you think we would do if the drug cartels were firing rockets from Mexico into the United States? How the fark would we have any problem with our military attacking launch sites, rocket factories and storage sites, and the leaders of the attacks?

Of course we wouldn't, we would demand that our military defend us. Even if those sites were PURPOSELY put in civilian areas.

You can talk about the history of Israel and Hamas all you want. The bottom line is that Hamas is trying to spark a greater war in the middle east. They want to kill as many Israeli civilians as possible, so that Israel has no choice but to attack the rocket sites. And Hamas builds these sites in civilian areas, making sure those areas are packed with woman and children. They want to have the Arab street to rise up and demand that their governments go to war with Israel.

Don't be idiots, Hamas would sacrifice anything to destroy Israel. If that means that many of their own woman and children must be sacrificed, then they will gladly make that sacrifice.

So all of you who blame Israel for this. How should they respond to constant rocket attack?

Oh, and FYI, the current leaders of Hamas will accept nothing less than the destruction of Israel. How do you negotiate peace with someone who wants, and will accept nothing less, than your death?
 
2012-11-18 08:49:45 AM
A ground offensive with heavy armor seems like it would incur quite a bit less international ire than the current bombing campaign.
 
2012-11-18 08:49:52 AM
Israel is an apartheid state. It's fundementally unjust. Their actions should surprise no one.
 
2012-11-18 08:51:04 AM

MustTryHarder: What you don't get is that when you throw shiat like this at people they start to question your motives.


"Jewish supremacism" is specifically something that was created by David Duke

MustTryHarder: You are blatantly the worst liar and bullshiat artist this site has ever seen.


Please point out the lies and bullshiat I posted in this thread

Mrtraveler01: Then how come that's not the message the world is gathering from this?


That does not in any way change the fact that the Palestinian Authority has declared that those neighborhood will be part of Israel in any two state solution. Palestine Papers, and many other statements.
 
2012-11-18 08:51:11 AM

BigBooper: didn't read most of the Derp, so I'm sure this has been posted. But what do you think we would do if the drug cartels were firing rockets from Mexico into the United States?


If Mexico was occupied territory, you'd have a point.
 
2012-11-18 08:51:20 AM

Tatsuma: Mrtraveler01: While simultaneous building even more settlements and evicting Palestinians from their homes.

Show me one example of a new settlement under the Bibi administration


Increased Spending

Increased Housing


Increased Population

That was a 30 second Google search. Netanyahuh is as much a part of the problem as any other figure over there.
 
2012-11-18 08:51:26 AM

sno man: Tatsuma: This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.

FFS... Then stop firing missles into Gaza.

3 Isrealies v. 15 Palestinian citizens last I heard

Sounds balanced and fair to me.


I agree. The Israelis should display restraint and allow more of their own civilians to be killed before considering retaliation. It's only fair.
 
2012-11-18 08:52:28 AM

Tatsuma: Mrtraveler01: Not a new settlement, just expanding an old settlement. Which is contrary to what the International Community wants

The Palestinian Authority has already declared that Pisgat Ze'ev and Ramot will stay part of the Israeli side of the city if Jerusalem is divided. By the way, both of these are integral parts of Jerusalem, and not 'settlements'.

You claimed that Bibi was 'building new settlements', show me one new settlement that was established by his administration.


OK just this once, for the sake of everyone else--

A July 2009 survey of Israeli public opinion found that people were about evenly divided on the issue of new settlement construction, with 46 percent of those polled in support of further construction and 44 percent opposed.

On 19 June 2011, Haaretz reported that the Israeli cabinet voted to revoke Defense Minister Ehud Barak's authority to veto new settlement construction in the West Bank, by transferring this authority from the Agriculture Ministry, headed by Barak ally Orit Noked, to the Prime Minister's office.

In 2009, Prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu said: "I have no intention of building new settlements in the West Bank... But like all the governments there have been until now, I will have to meet the needs of natural growth in the population. I will not be able to choke the settlements." On 15 October 2009, he said the settlement row with the United States had been resolved.

In March 2012, it was revealed that the Civil Administration, a unit of the IDF, has over the years covertly earmarked 10% of the West Bank for further settlement.

On 7 June 2012, Netanyahu ordered the construction of 300 new homes in Beit El in the West Bank. He has also authorised the move of five apartment buildings to Beit El from the nearby outpost Ulpana, where they are to be removed by 1 July 2012, after the supreme court ruled that they were built on private Palestinian land. According to Al Jazeera, an additional 550 new homes are to be built elsewhere in the West Bank.
 
2012-11-18 08:53:04 AM

INeedAName: That was a 30 second Google search.


None of these things translate as new settlements.

The buildings being built are within the municipal boundaries of the already existing settlements, and those settlements are not expending, and neither are new ones being created.
 
2012-11-18 08:53:31 AM

Tatsuma: That does not in any way change the fact that the Palestinian Authority has declared that those neighborhood will be part of Israel in any two state solution. Palestine Papers, and many other statements.


Got a citation?

I thought East Jerusalem was going to be part of Palestinian territory.
 
2012-11-18 08:54:07 AM

BigBooper: I didn't read most of the Derp, so I'm sure this has been posted. But what do you think we would do if the drug cartels were firing rockets from Mexico into the United States? How the fark would we have any problem with our military attacking launch sites, rocket factories and storage sites, and the leaders of the attacks?

Of course we wouldn't, we would demand that our military defend us. Even if those sites were PURPOSELY put in civilian areas.

You can talk about the history of Israel and Hamas all you want. The bottom line is that Hamas is trying to spark a greater war in the middle east. They want to kill as many Israeli civilians as possible, so that Israel has no choice but to attack the rocket sites. And Hamas builds these sites in civilian areas, making sure those areas are packed with woman and children. They want to have the Arab street to rise up and demand that their governments go to war with Israel.

Don't be idiots, Hamas would sacrifice anything to destroy Israel. If that means that many of their own woman and children must be sacrificed, then they will gladly make that sacrifice.

So all of you who blame Israel for this. How should they respond to constant rocket attack?

Oh, and FYI, the current leaders of Hamas will accept nothing less than the destruction of Israel. How do you negotiate peace with someone who wants, and will accept nothing less, than your death?


Alright then, are they prepaired to suffer the international backlash if they go in and kill them all to protect the land they conquered?
 
2012-11-18 08:54:30 AM

Mrtraveler01: Tatsuma: Mrtraveler01: While simultaneous building even more settlements and evicting Palestinians from their homes.

Show me one example of a new settlement under the Bibi administration

Not a new settlement, just expanding an old settlement. Which is contrary to what the International Community wants



you know what could have prevented this kind of thing from happening if you were the Palestinians?
sign a peace treaty 30 years ago accepting the status quo.
they lost a war and don't want to negotiate a peace with their opponents.
they don't want to give up the right of return and want a return to the pre-1967 borders.
sorry, they and their allies started the war and lost, again.
when they hold out for a white peace for damn near 50 years after getting ther asses kicked, why is it the other side who is at fault?
if japan had demanded a white peace in ww2 we would still be over there.
 
2012-11-18 08:54:50 AM

ginandbacon: BronyMedic: ginandbacon: Tats, 13 children are dead. A pregnant woman was killed.

Shocking. Innocent people would die when terrorist governments hide like cowards behind them, and use them as human meatshields for political gain. At least the Israelis make it a point to attempt to avoid Civilian casualties, not purposefully target them with artillery. You know, like HAMAS.

Curiously enough, I see you aren't making an issue of the fact that their Government has made it a policy to support the shelling of another sovereign nation with mortars and rockets, despite ostensibly holding a peace/cease fire treaty with them.

*sigh*

Yeah, I totally love Hamas. Three Israelis are dead in this most recent idiocy. You think I don't mourn them? We have 50 Palestinians dead (at least) and three Israelis. Enough. It's just more of the same. Israel has been using collective punishment for decades.

Do you think it's working?


This. So much this.
 
2012-11-18 08:54:53 AM
So all of you who blame Israel for this. How should they respond to constant rocket attack?

They should look at WHY there is constant rocket attack, and do something about the root problem: generations of people living in poverty with no hope getting out of poverty. When you have a large population of uneducated and unemployable young men, war happens. That has been true for thousands of years. They keep these people segregated, and they shouldn't be surprised.

Now to be clear, I don't give a fark what these monsters do. Both sides are filled with war criminals and thugs. I'm angry that MY country keeps getting dragged into this.
 
2012-11-18 08:55:00 AM

thamike: Tatsuma: Mrtraveler01: Not a new settlement, just expanding an old settlement. Which is contrary to what the International Community wants

The Palestinian Authority has already declared that Pisgat Ze'ev and Ramot will stay part of the Israeli side of the city if Jerusalem is divided. By the way, both of these are integral parts of Jerusalem, and not 'settlements'.

You claimed that Bibi was 'building new settlements', show me one new settlement that was established by his administration.

OK just this once, for the sake of everyone else--

A July 2009 survey of Israeli public opinion found that people were about evenly divided on the issue of new settlement construction, with 46 percent of those polled in support of further construction and 44 percent opposed.

On 19 June 2011, Haaretz reported that the Israeli cabinet voted to revoke Defense Minister Ehud Barak's authority to veto new settlement construction in the West Bank, by transferring this authority from the Agriculture Ministry, headed by Barak ally Orit Noked, to the Prime Minister's office.

In 2009, Prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu said: "I have no intention of building new settlements in the West Bank... But like all the governments there have been until now, I will have to meet the needs of natural growth in the population. I will not be able to choke the settlements." On 15 October 2009, he said the settlement row with the United States had been resolved.

In March 2012, it was revealed that the Civil Administration, a unit of the IDF, has over the years covertly earmarked 10% of the West Bank for further settlement.

On 7 June 2012, Netanyahu ordered the construction of 300 new homes in Beit El in the West Bank. He has also authorised the move of five apartment buildings to Beit El from the nearby outpost Ulpana, where they are to be removed by 1 July 2012, after the supreme court ruled that they were built on private Palestinian land. According to Al Jazeera, an additional 550 new homes are to be ...


Maybe they just need living space.
 
2012-11-18 08:55:07 AM

ginandbacon: Israeli Deputy PM Yishai: "We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages destroying all the infrastructure including roads & water"


that would work, but is not what they are doing; I'd say your trolling but some people seem to think this and I'm guessing you do

I'm not a history buff but it seems that before WW2 this issue did not exist. So who idea was it?
 
2012-11-18 08:55:12 AM

Mrtraveler01: BigBooper: didn't read most of the Derp, so I'm sure this has been posted. But what do you think we would do if the drug cartels were firing rockets from Mexico into the United States?

If Mexico was occupied territory, you'd have a point.


Hell, what would you say if we just up and moved into Mexico, kicked 'em out a few choice spots then built new walls around everything we took? I wouldn't blame them for firing rockets and I would gladly get all up on the President's case about wtf we were doing!
 
2012-11-18 08:56:26 AM

BigBooper: I didn't read most of the Derp, so I'm sure this has been posted. But what do you think we would do if the drug cartels were firing rockets from Mexico into the United States? How the fark would we have any problem with our military attacking launch sites, rocket factories and storage sites, and the leaders of the attacks?


I doubt the US would bombard, invade, occupy, marginalize and continuously co-antagonize all of Mexico and most of Central America, while calling the president of Mexico a "leader of a terrorist organization" because of it.

F*cking analogies, how do they work?
 
2012-11-18 08:56:36 AM
Is it okay to want to see Israel wiped off the map, and not give a shiat about religion? Or do I have to pick a side? (Difficulty-Native American and Israel is more douch-y than small-pox blankets).
 
2012-11-18 08:58:06 AM
Gotta reclaim all that land before Iran finishes those nukes...
 
2012-11-18 08:58:10 AM

Mrtraveler01: Got a citation?

I thought East Jerusalem was going to be part of Palestinian territory.


Basically an exchange of neighborhoods, and Pisgat Ze'ev and a few others were agreed to stay in Israel. Even most of the Arab neighborhoods would rather stay in Israel. Gotta go for a while, but check around on google its fairly easy to find, otherwise when I come back
 
2012-11-18 08:58:12 AM

Tatsuma: INeedAName: That was a 30 second Google search.

None of these things translate as new settlements.

The buildings being built are within the municipal boundaries of the already existing settlements, and those settlements are not expending, and neither are new ones being created.


You are so full of shiat, it's coming out of your ears.

Israel to Continue Settlement Building
 
2012-11-18 08:58:14 AM
I don't care about Israel as a state or what it wants to do in conflict but can we all just admit that Jewish people tend to be a little annoying?
 
2012-11-18 08:58:55 AM

Tatsuma: sno man: FFS... Then stop firing missles into Gaza.

Before we started the current campaign four days ago, they had fired more than 800 missiles in Israel in 2012. Last year, 627.

What do you expect us to do?


Stop with the apartheid?
 
2012-11-18 08:59:00 AM

BigBooper: ...Oh, and FYI, the current leaders of Hamas will accept nothing less than the destruction of Israel. How do you negotiate peace with someone who wants, and will accept nothing less, than your death?


How dare they be mad at people who have rounded them up and forced them into ghettos?
 
2012-11-18 08:59:28 AM

ApeShaft: Hey, and this is just like warm white snow....

[i.imgur.com image 398x294]


It's like snowflakes essentially.
i.huffpost.com
 
2012-11-18 08:59:31 AM

INeedAName: You are so full of shiat, it's coming out of your ears.

Israel to Continue Settlement Building


The Iranian government as a source, the same media who reprinted an onion article saying that Americans would rather have Ahmadinejad than Obama as President.

yeah leaving
 
2012-11-18 09:00:33 AM

ginandbacon: Tats, 13 children are dead. A pregnant woman was killed.


Hamas doesn't follow the Geneva convention. Civilians get killed when used as shields.

Israel might be full of assholes, but they play by the rules.
 
2012-11-18 09:00:40 AM

sno man: 3 Isrealies v. 15 Palestinian citizens last I heard

Sounds balanced and fair to me.


You're right, the israelis should step out of the bomb shelters, turn off the alarm systems and deactivate the Iron Dome systems used to block rocket attacks, to even the ratio.
 
2012-11-18 09:00:52 AM

Old Man Winter: Is it okay to want to see Israel wiped off the map, and not give a shiat about religion? Or do I have to pick a side? (Difficulty-Native American and Israel is more douch-y than small-pox blankets).


Everyone picks a side. I'll drink a toast to the winner.
 
2012-11-18 09:01:08 AM

Tatsuma: This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.


"From the least to the greatest, all are greedy for gain; prophets and priests alike, all practice deceit. They dress the wound of my people as though it were not serious. 'Peace, peace,' they say, when there is no peace. Are they ashamed of their loathsome conduct? No, they have no shame at all;
they do not even know how to blush."
 
2012-11-18 09:01:23 AM
Nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure

/Failing to go to war with the Soviets was the biggest mistake humanity ever made
 
2012-11-18 09:01:39 AM
In the words of Rodney King:

"Can't we all just get along?"
 
2012-11-18 09:01:40 AM

Tatsuma: INeedAName: You are so full of shiat, it's coming out of your ears.

Israel to Continue Settlement Building

The Iranian government as a source, the same media who reprinted an onion article saying that Americans would rather have Ahmadinejad than Obama as President.

yeah leaving


So you're saying we shouldn't listen to a source of information with ties to one nationality for fear they might be slanting things to come across in their favor? Tell me more...
 
2012-11-18 09:02:13 AM

doglover: ginandbacon: Tats, 13 children are dead. A pregnant woman was killed.

Hamas doesn't follow the Geneva convention. Civilians get killed when used as shields.

Israel might be full of assholes, but they play by the rules.


Let's white phosphorous EVERYBODY.
 
2012-11-18 09:03:23 AM

ShonenBat: Is this even news? When isn't the situation utter mayhem in the Gaza Strip?


This too.
 
2012-11-18 09:03:27 AM

doglover: ginandbacon: Tats, 13 children are dead. A pregnant woman was killed.

Hamas doesn't follow the Geneva convention. Civilians get killed when used as shields.

Israel might be full of assholes, but they play by the rules.


And when you say "Play by the rules" that means discard the rules and then claim that the other side did it first?

Just wondering, because anyone who actually believes what you just typed is fully delusional.
 
2012-11-18 09:04:20 AM

Dadoody: This land is mine

God gave this land to me

This brave and ancient land to me
And when the morning sun
Reveals her hills and plains
Then I see a land
where children can run free.

So take my hand
And walk this land with me
And walk this lovely land with me
Tho' I am just a man

When you are by my side

With the help of God
I know I can be strong.

So take my hand
And walk this land with me

And walk this golden land with me.
Tho' I am just a man

When you are by my side

With the help of God
I know I can be strong.

To make this land our home

If I must fight

I'll fight to make this land our own.
Until I die this land is mine!


[youthvoices.net image 850x737]


It's better with this video.
 
2012-11-18 09:04:50 AM

TwistedFark: Israel is an apartheid state. It's fundementally unjust. Their actions should surprise no one.


Funny thing about that. I was watching something on TV the other night and some refugees from Sudan were talking about how they were treated in Egypt vs. how they were treated in Israel. They seemed a little upset that their fellow Muslims in Egypt turned water cannons on them while Israel treated them like human beings.
 
2012-11-18 09:05:00 AM
Fifty children aged four to six years old and the driver of the school bus they were on were killed when their vehicle was hit by a train in central Egypt on Saturday, officials said.

Your arguments about unacceptable levels of civilian casualties caused by the IDF are invalid. School bus drivers are the real terrorists. Or is it trains?
 
2012-11-18 09:05:08 AM
Yes, but is Benghazi a scandal yet?
 
2012-11-18 09:08:45 AM

INeedAName: Tatsuma: derp

You are so full of shiat, it's coming out of your ears.


i.imgur.com
 
2012-11-18 09:09:01 AM

Tatsuma: This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.


Doesn't this take away one of the key elements of war: that there will be suffering as a result of war. Civilized men, by their very nature, do not want to inflict harm on others. The common thread which should bind us all is our value of life: we are repulsed by the ending of it. This is why war should be used only as a last resort as a resolution to conflict. It must be repulsive. Everyone will forced to spill blood for the policies of a few- so it should always be in our interest to find an alternative.

The face of warfare has changed. We have come to believe that it will be precise as surgery- that only evil would be excised while the rest of us, as long as we didn't get painted by a predator's laser guidance system, we're free to go about our lives as usual. We also recognize that not all surgery is perfect, and have come to expect that the surgeon will repair the damage along the way as well.

This is not surgery. The surgery was performed along the way when various players were assassinated as a measure to avoid war.

The surgery has failed, the body has chosen to not accept your services.

You are there now. At war.

You do what you have to do, in an expediant manner, regardless of the cost.

That is what war is. That is why it is to avoided at all costs.

How one is to treat the casualties, compensate the victims, and help restore social order will will rest on the shoulders of the victor.
 
2012-11-18 09:11:12 AM

Tatsuma: This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.


"Bomb 'em and feed 'em, bomb 'em and feed 'em."
 
2012-11-18 09:11:16 AM
I was reading this news article and comments while listening to a Karaite Jewish lecture called The Hebrew Yeshua vs. the Greek Jesus by Nehemia Gordon. I'm actually a lapsed Catholic with a tiny Jewish ancestry.
 
2012-11-18 09:11:19 AM

Happy Hours: TwistedFark: Israel is an apartheid state. It's fundementally unjust. Their actions should surprise no one.

Funny thing about that. I was watching something on TV the other night and some refugees from Sudan were talking about how they were treated in Egypt vs. how they were treated in Israel. They seemed a little upset that their fellow Muslims in Egypt turned water cannons on them while Israel treated them like human beings.

And yet on the other hand there's stuff like this:

I'M a Palestinian who was born in the Israeli town of Lod, and thus I am an Israeli citizen. My wife is not; she is a Palestinian from Nablus in the Israeli-occupied West Bank. Despite our towns being just 30 miles apart, we met almost 6,000 miles away in Massachusetts, where we attended neighboring colleges.

A series of walls, checkpoints, settlements and soldiers fill the 30-mile gap between our hometowns, making it more likely for us to have met on the other side of the planet than in our own backyard.

Never is this reality more profound than on our trips home from our current residence outside Washington.

Tel Aviv's Ben-Gurion International Airport is on the outskirts of Lod (Lydda in Arabic), but because my wife has a Palestinian ID, she cannot fly there; she is relegated to flying to Amman, Jordan. If we plan a trip together - an enjoyable task for most couples - we must prepare for a logistical nightmare that reminds us of our profound inequality before the law at every turn.

Even if we fly together to Amman, we are forced to take different bridges, two hours apart, and endure often humiliating waiting and questioning just to cross into Israel and the West Bank. The laws conspire to separate us.

If we lived in the region, I would have to forgo my residency, since Israeli law prevents my wife from living with me in Israel. This is to prevent what Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu once referred to as "demographic spillover." Additional Palestinian babies in Israel are considered "demographic threats" by a state constantly battling to keep a Jewish majority. (Of course, Israelis who marry Americans or any non-Palestinian foreigners are not subjected to this treatment.)


Link
 
2012-11-18 09:11:56 AM
Told ya they were going to occupy Gaza.

i575.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-18 09:12:32 AM
clowncar on fire:
How one is to treat the casualties, compensate the victims, and help restore social order will will rest on the shoulders of the victor.

The losers of this one ain't getting compensated.
 
2012-11-18 09:16:58 AM

Tatsuma: What do you expect us to do?


I love how you say "us" like you are a member of the Israeli government or an Israeli soldier. IIRC you are in Israel; this is a trend I've also noticed in protests in the US. (If by some slim chance you are actually fighting, then disregard this post. But over my time reading Fark, I think it's safe to assume you're not.)

The main reason I disregard this conflict (and I'm an atheist Palestinian-American, BTW, with no intention of ever moving to the Middle East) is that both sides that are actually fighting have farked themselves and each other over. Any rational observer can see that Israeli incursions into Palestine are generally neatly timed around Israeli election time. In many countries, a state of war is when the "stay the course" mentality kicks in (you don't want to change leaders when we're at war, right?) and citizens largely vote to keep the same people in power. Good for Likud (the conservative Israeli party), with its tenuous grasp on the Knesset. At the same time, Hamas does not care about launching mortars and rockets from near civilian houses/schools/etc because when Israel inevitably strikes the "launch point", Hamas has packed up and moved away and some unwitting civilians get their shiat wrecked. That allows Hamas to basically trick its supporters into believing Israel always wants to harm civilians.

Both sides are using human lives for political gain. The Israelis use soldiers and settlers and Hamas uses civilians. Not to mention that the shiat that leads up to this conflict on both sides start to cancel each other out: illegal settlement creation/expansion, terrorists smuggling weapons, restricting Palestinian travel, suicide bombing... all part of the constant digging deeper of the hole that is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

And yet outside supporters of one side or the other use "us" to describe their side like it is some sort of baseball game, where the fans say "we're gonna win" when they really mean the baseball team they support is going to win. If you're not Israeli government/military or Hamas, this conflict is above you. You are pawns to be influenced or crapped upon, depending on what the situation calls for. And though you may or may not still have me ignored for arguing with you in the past, maybe some other people will read and learn from this.
 
2012-11-18 09:17:30 AM

LazarusLong42: Yes, but is Benghazi a scandal yet?


This is Obama's New Coke.
 
2012-11-18 09:19:13 AM
Didn't "Nutty Yahoo" get the message that Romney lost the election?
 
2012-11-18 09:19:54 AM
The long term policies of Israel are what lead to the repeating of this event. Israel behaves better in the battles, no doubt there, but always sink right down to the lowest level when it comes to finding an overall.

They are not moving towards either a one or two state solution. Until they do I won't be shedding any more tears (or less) for them than the Palestinians.
 
2012-11-18 09:19:57 AM

rollersnake: How about this: everybody puts their weapons down, go back to their own home wherever/whatever that may be, and just let it all go.

It's land. Everyone's land belonged to someone else at some point in history. Is it worth killing and dying for?

I'm so worn down by all the religious strife, all the expansion strife, all the hate, that my empathy gauge is dangerously close to "E."


The land is just a carrot on a stick for those who are too hungry to bother being fired up about abstractions like political philosophy and ideology.
 
2012-11-18 09:22:34 AM

MustTryHarder: clowncar on fire:
How one is to treat the casualties, compensate the victims, and help restore social order will will rest on the shoulders of the victor.

The losers of this one ain't getting compensated.


They appear to be getting compensation along the way though.
You feed the vanquished, not the soldier.
 
2012-11-18 09:23:22 AM

Mrtraveler01: Happy Hours: TwistedFark: Israel is an apartheid state. It's fundementally unjust. Their actions should surprise no one.

Funny thing about that. I was watching something on TV the other night and some refugees from Sudan were talking about how they were treated in Egypt vs. how they were treated in Israel. They seemed a little upset that their fellow Muslims in Egypt turned water cannons on them while Israel treated them like human beings.

And yet on the other hand there's stuff like this:

I'M a Palestinian who was born in the Israeli town of Lod, and thus I am an Israeli citizen. My wife is not; she is a Palestinian from Nablus in the Israeli-occupied West Bank. Despite our towns being just 30 miles apart, we met almost 6,000 miles away in Massachusetts, where we attended neighboring colleges.

A series of walls, checkpoints, settlements and soldiers fill the 30-mile gap between our hometowns, making it more likely for us to have met on the other side of the planet than in our own backyard.

Never is this reality more profound than on our trips home from our current residence outside Washington.

Tel Aviv's Ben-Gurion International Airport is on the outskirts of Lod (Lydda in Arabic), but because my wife has a Palestinian ID, she cannot fly there; she is relegated to flying to Amman, Jordan. If we plan a trip together - an enjoyable task for most couples - we must prepare for a logistical nightmare that reminds us of our profound inequality before the law at every turn.

Even if we fly together to Amman, we are forced to take different bridges, two hours apart, and endure often humiliating waiting and questioning just to cross into Israel and the West Bank. The laws conspire to separate us.

If we lived in the region, I would have to forgo my residency, since Israeli law prevents my wife from living with me in Israel. This is to prevent what Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu once referred to as "demographic spillover." Additional Palestinian babies in Israel a ...



You do realize that this is how most of the world works. The U.S. was/is very unique is giving citizenship by right of being born in a country.

Apart from France, jus sanguinis is still the most common means of passing on citizenship in many continental European countries.

Germany has only given the right of jus soli in 2000, and that is to people who's parents have been living legally in Germany for 8 years.
 
2012-11-18 09:24:45 AM

Smackledorfer: They are not moving towards either a one or two state solution.


How many states do they want then? There are only 2 parties involved in the conflict. ಠ_ಠ
 
2012-11-18 09:26:49 AM

ShonenBat: Is this even news? When isn't the situation utter mayhem in the Gaza Strip?



I hate this map. When the tickets run out I'm voting for a map change
 
2012-11-18 09:27:15 AM
Mrtraveler01

BigBooper: didn't read most of the Derp, so I'm sure this has been posted. But what do you think we would do if the drug cartels were firing rockets from Mexico into the United States?

If Mexico was occupied territory, you'd have a point.


You are correct, a more accurate analogy would be if USA fired rockets into Mexico, would you not expect Mexico to defend itself from our attacks. Ever been to the Rio Grande Valley, then you know what I'm talking about.
 
2012-11-18 09:27:31 AM

Sock Ruh Tease: Tatsuma: What do you expect us to do?

.


Okay, so we finally have an opposing view to Tatsuma who might have a clue as to what's going on.

Maybe....

I ask you then, how should this violence end? Or rather how can this violence end?

Just idealistically what do you see as the best possible outcome for the area? could Gaza join Israel and live together in peace as part of that nation? Should Gaza be its own country separate from Israel?

Because ever since I can remember there has been war in the Middle East and I'm getting a little sick of it.
 
2012-11-18 09:28:37 AM

TV's Vinnie: Didn't "Nutty Yahoo" get the message that Romney lost the election?


He did. That's part of the problem.
Neoconservative psychodrama, how does it work?
 
2012-11-18 09:30:10 AM
Lotta both sides are bad talk today, which inevitably turns to anti-Israel talk as they have their justice-blind champions.

Just thought I'd note that the majority of the missiles that Hamas uses are used with mobile launchers, not emplacements. (Wikipedia Qassam rocket to see pics of the launcher system, loaded).

Hamas knows exactly what they're doing when they fire a rocket from the vicinity of a news station, or a UN refugee camp (as on Friday, during the Egyptian PM visit).
And Israel knows exactly what they're doing when they try to hit the rocketeers. Their leaflets of "stay away from Hamas infrastructure" are somewhat a red herring; Hamas can bring the "infrastructure" to the civilians, and they can just hope that the IDF notes the firing position... and sends a drone or air strike in, later, when the Hamas operatives are far away.

That's why the ratio of strikes to dead Hamas is so appallingly low - simple IDF incompetence. Anyway, back to it...
 
2012-11-18 09:31:50 AM

starsrift: Lotta both sides are bad talk today, which inevitably turns to anti-Israel talk as they have their justice-blind champions.


So if I don't blindly support Israel 100%, does that make me Anti-Israel?
 
2012-11-18 09:33:07 AM

Mrtraveler01: starsrift: Lotta both sides are bad talk today, which inevitably turns to anti-Israel talk as they have their justice-blind champions.

So if I don't blindly support Israel 100%, does that make me Anti-Israel?


According to some... not me.
 
2012-11-18 09:34:10 AM
I watched a film shot in 2003 about the Israeli/Palestinian conflicts (Death in Gaza). It is amazing, in a terrifying sort of way, the way the kids are raised. Hell, kids as young as 3 are well aware of who their enemies are and what should happen to those enemies.

Now, I'm wondering if any of the kids shown in the 2003 film have survived to adulthood (or near adulthood) and what they're doing now.
 
2012-11-18 09:36:32 AM

starsrift: Mrtraveler01: starsrift: Lotta both sides are bad talk today, which inevitably turns to anti-Israel talk as they have their justice-blind champions.

So if I don't blindly support Israel 100%, does that make me Anti-Israel?

According to some... not me.


I'm not sure who to be rooting here for either. Then again, I'm not really much of a sports fan, so par for the course I guess.
 
2012-11-18 09:38:22 AM
Israel is turning into the same circular-thinking idiotic bullshiat as the rest of the middle east

God gives me the right to do whatever I want, therefore fark you! NO! God gave ME the right, not you, fark you! NO! Die! NO! Die! NO, Die more! NO, Die more more!

eventually somebody forces a cease fire (either because of an outside party, or because both sides' strategies are blowing up in their faces), which ironically just gives both sides more ammo (literally and figuratively) for when the other side WILL keep shooting, because you can say with 100% certainty that neither side is trustworthy because they believe a higher power (God) gave them the right to BE a God and will their collective punishment, and they easily morally justify it because neither side sees the other side as human beings but as a virus or disease or infestation

either way that whole area - from Sinai to Turkey - has gone insane, and shouldn't be trusted
 
2012-11-18 09:38:34 AM

clowncar on fire: starsrift: Mrtraveler01: starsrift: Lotta both sides are bad talk today, which inevitably turns to anti-Israel talk as they have their justice-blind champions.

So if I don't blindly support Israel 100%, does that make me Anti-Israel?

According to some... not me.

I'm not sure who to be rooting here for either. Then again, I'm not really much of a sports fan, so par for the course I guess.


Me, I'm rooting for the civilians. On both sides.
 
2012-11-18 09:41:18 AM
Why doesn't Israel just park about a thousand drones over Gaza to take out the rocket sites before they're launched instead of this "tit for tat"?
 
2012-11-18 09:41:45 AM

Buffalo77: BigBooper: didn't read most of the Derp, so I'm sure this has been posted. But what do you think we would do if the drug cartels were firing rockets from Mexico into the United States?


I can answer this.
The US and A! would put all of Mexico under continuous surveillance of numerous flavors and varieties and put special forces teams on the ground. These teams would then start destroying and interdicting missiles and missile shipments, killing the missile crews and destroying the launch infrastructure and facilities.
The US and A! government would lean down hard on whatever country was providing the missiles, possibly even stealth bombing the missile production facilities. Ships at sea would be stopped and searched for missiles and impounded if necessary. Once the threat was neutralized, the surveillance and interdiction would continue indefinitely until the Mexican government started to play along and provide security with the same effect.
And it wouldn't take hundreds of missiles to provoke this response, either.
 
2012-11-18 09:44:07 AM

Smackledorfer: The long term policies of Israel Hamas are what lead to the repeating of this event. Israel behaves better in the battles, no doubt there, but always sink right down to the lowest level when it comes to finding an overall.

They are not moving towards either a one or two state solution. Until they do I won't be shedding any more tears (or less) for them than the Palestinians.


Had to update that for reality.
 
2012-11-18 09:46:02 AM
Ya, I don't have much to contribute other than to say every single one of my Israeli friends on facebook oppose bibi. Paying attention to the troll in this thread is akin to tuning into Glen Beck... He's not a representative of progressive Israelis
 
2012-11-18 09:48:42 AM
I don't understand the blame Israel mentality. Hamas is a terrorist organization, deliberately attacking civilian targets. Israel responds effectively, and they're the bad guys?

Not buying it.

Sorry that Hamas embeds its rocket launchers in civilian areas. Sorry for the loss of innocents. But I blame Hamas, not Israel.
 
2012-11-18 09:49:02 AM

aevorea: I watched a film shot in 2003 about the Israeli/Palestinian conflicts (Death in Gaza). It is amazing, in a terrifying sort of way, the way the kids are raised. Hell, kids as young as 3 are well aware of who their enemies are and what should happen to those enemies.

Now, I'm wondering if any of the kids shown in the 2003 film have survived to adulthood (or near adulthood) and what they're doing now.


Similar situations in North Korea and Iran. At one time, I was able to walk the streets of Teheran without fear of being accosted as the "west" was not quite the enemy at that time. We left the country in 1978, the summer when power began transitioning away from the Shah. Since then, the populace has been raised in 34 years of lies. Eventually, any generation having warm regards to the west will be gone- replaced by a generation taught to fear and hate.
 
2012-11-18 09:49:08 AM

starsrift: Me, I'm rooting for the civilians. On both sides.


Seems like the common sense thing to do. But yet to some it's not.
 
2012-11-18 09:50:22 AM
Ok, alert me when shiiat gets super uber way way ultra omfg NC-17 serious will ya?
 
2012-11-18 09:50:47 AM

Buddha Belly: I don't understand the blame Israel mentality. Hamas is a terrorist organization, deliberately attacking civilian targets. Israel responds effectively, and they're the bad guys?


That's part of it. The other part is the fact that Israel occupies parts of the West Bank and Gaza but yet treats the people who live there like second class citizens.

Neither side is innocent in this conflict IMHO.
 
2012-11-18 09:51:48 AM

Happy Hours: I ask you then, how should this violence end? Or rather how can this violence end?

Just idealistically what do you see as the best possible outcome for the area? could Gaza join Israel and live together in peace as part of that nation? Should Gaza be its own country separate from Israel?

Because ever since I can remember there has been war in the Middle East and I'm getting a little sick of it.


Well, it's worth mentioning that a majority of Israelis and Palestinians support a two-state solution where borders return to 1967 lines and land swaps are made to ensure everyone goes where they want to go Link to source. Though that is a fairly outdated poll it is also one that the US and European Union seem to support, and one which newer polls like this one Link seem to go in line with. The US position is for Israel and Palestine to return to those borders with mutual swaps, and the EU's position is supportive of the US position.

I think it's important to consider the world's opinion since Israelis and Palestinians alike should be wary of doing things that could tip the present balance and make them lose what is really goodwill to both sides from many Western governments, and also because there are many Israelis and Palestinians living in those countries. I think following the majority's will by going back to 1967 borders and splitting up is the ideal solution, only because it does have so much support from both sides.

I think we're seeing a vast majority of people getting sick of the conflict though. I'd say this starts to end when Hamas supporters start to see they're being used, and the Israeli government starts moving more to the left. Kadima (the party opposed to Netanyahu's Likud) and Fatah (Abbas' party) seem to be supportive of this, but with all the seats Hamas has... I don't know. It's like watching both sides competing to see who can take a hammer and hit their own genitals harder. Completely pointless and self-destructive nationalism.
 
2012-11-18 09:55:29 AM

Sock Ruh Tease: I think we're seeing a vast majority of people getting sick of the conflict though. I'd say this starts to end when Hamas supporters start to see they're being used, and the Israeli government starts moving more to the left. Kadima (the party opposed to Netanyahu's Likud) and Fatah (Abbas' party) seem to be supportive of this, but with all the seats Hamas has... I don't know. It's like watching both sides competing to see who can take a hammer and hit their own genitals harder. Completely pointless and self-destructive nationalism.


Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the main issue in Israel that the opposition to the Likuds is so fractured to the point that the Likud is the most strong and unified party in Israel at the moment?
 
2012-11-18 09:55:56 AM

Sock Ruh Tease: Tatsuma: What do you expect us to do?

I love how you say "us" like you are a member of the Israeli government or an Israeli soldier. IIRC you are in Israel; this is a trend I've also noticed in protests in the US. (If by some slim chance you are actually fighting, then disregard this post. But over my time reading Fark, I think it's safe to assume you're not.)

The main reason I disregard this conflict (and I'm an atheist Palestinian-American, BTW, with no intention of ever moving to the Middle East) is that both sides that are actually fighting have farked themselves and each other over. Any rational observer can see that Israeli incursions into Palestine are generally neatly timed around Israeli election time. In many countries, a state of war is when the "stay the course" mentality kicks in (you don't want to change leaders when we're at war, right?) and citizens largely vote to keep the same people in power. Good for Likud (the conservative Israeli party), with its tenuous grasp on the Knesset. At the same time, Hamas does not care about launching mortars and rockets from near civilian houses/schools/etc because when Israel inevitably strikes the "launch point", Hamas has packed up and moved away and some unwitting civilians get their shiat wrecked. That allows Hamas to basically trick its supporters into believing Israel always wants to harm civilians.

Both sides are using human lives for political gain. The Israelis use soldiers and settlers and Hamas uses civilians. Not to mention that the shiat that leads up to this conflict on both sides start to cancel each other out: illegal settlement creation/expansion, terrorists smuggling weapons, restricting Palestinian travel, suicide bombing... all part of the constant digging deeper of the hole that is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

And yet outside supporters of one side or the other use "us" to describe their side like it is some sort of baseball game, where the fans say "we're gonna win" when they really m ...


holy farktasticly fark... this is the most sense I have EVER heard anyone make in one of these threads! Kudos, man
 
2012-11-18 09:56:04 AM

Mrs.Sharpier: Ya, I don't have much to contribute other than to say every single one of my Israeli friends on facebook oppose bibi. Paying attention to the troll in this thread is akin to tuning into Glen Beck... He's not a representative of progressive Israelis


He's a typical old-brand neocon and needs to be sent away so he can sip cocktails with Rmoney on the veranda of the Butt Hurt Hotel.
 
2012-11-18 09:58:51 AM
I think the problem is that the towelheads overall have never seen total war. hell half of them think the holocaust is a myth. Turn Gaza into Dresden and I bet they'd change their tune PDQ
 
2012-11-18 09:59:13 AM

Mrtraveler01: Sock Ruh Tease: I think we're seeing a vast majority of people getting sick of the conflict though. I'd say this starts to end when Hamas supporters start to see they're being used, and the Israeli government starts moving more to the left. Kadima (the party opposed to Netanyahu's Likud) and Fatah (Abbas' party) seem to be supportive of this, but with all the seats Hamas has... I don't know. It's like watching both sides competing to see who can take a hammer and hit their own genitals harder. Completely pointless and self-destructive nationalism.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the main issue in Israel that the opposition to the Likuds is so fractured to the point that the Likud is the most strong and unified party in Israel at the moment?


Maybe. I don't follow these things as closely as I used to anymore. You could be right, and in fact that would make a lot of sense.
 
2012-11-18 10:00:02 AM
My solution is carpet bombing, but no one likes it when I bring it up.
 
2012-11-18 10:01:16 AM

willfullyobscure: I think the problem is that the towelheads overall have never seen total war. hell half of them think the holocaust is a myth. Turn Gaza into Dresden and I bet they'd change their tune PDQ


Exactly my point. Unleash hell. It's been a while since we've been in a real war.
 
2012-11-18 10:01:50 AM

willfullyobscure: I think the problem is that the towelheads overall have never seen total war. hell half of them think the holocaust is a myth. Turn Gaza into Dresden and I bet they'd change their tune PDQ


Molavian: My solution is carpet bombing, but no one likes it when I bring it up.


How does that honestly not make the situation any worse?
 
2012-11-18 10:02:45 AM
Wasn't Obama supposed to bring peace to the world with his awesomeness and the Arab Spring? The world is a lot worse off now than it was 4 years ago. It is much closer to a World War.
 
2012-11-18 10:04:22 AM

Molavian: My solution is carpet bombing, but no one likes it when I bring it up.


For every rocket launched at Israel, we will level a Palestinian apartment block, and everyone inside of it.

Any Palestinian who brings in a member of Hamas to the IDF so they may be executed will be given citizenship in Israel and protection from violent acts against them.

/shouldn't take more then a week to get Hamas booted out
 
2012-11-18 10:05:05 AM

Mrtraveler01: How does that honestly not make the situation any worse?


If nobody is left alive, there is nobody to complain, and thus no problem.
 
2012-11-18 10:05:33 AM

Sock Ruh Tease: Any rational observer can see that Israeli incursions into Palestine are generally neatly timed around Israeli election time. In many countries, a state of war is when the "stay the course" mentality kicks in (you don't want to change leaders when we're at war, right?) and citizens largely vote to keep the same people in power. Good for Likud (the conservative Israeli party), with its tenuous grasp on the Knesset.


How does Likud get the Hamas to launch all those rockets at Israeli civilians just before elections? They must have a pretty good relationship with each other to get that timing right.
 
2012-11-18 10:08:05 AM

Farking Canuck: Sock Ruh Tease: Any rational observer can see that Israeli incursions into Palestine are generally neatly timed around Israeli election time. In many countries, a state of war is when the "stay the course" mentality kicks in (you don't want to change leaders when we're at war, right?) and citizens largely vote to keep the same people in power. Good for Likud (the conservative Israeli party), with its tenuous grasp on the Knesset.

How does Likud get the Hamas to launch all those rockets at Israeli civilians just before elections? They must have a pretty good relationship with each other to get that timing right.


Haha, yeah, that would be a sign of a pretty good relationship if that were the case.

Hamas does their shiat pretty much all year long. The Israeli government responds with ground operations only every once in a while though.
 
2012-11-18 10:08:24 AM
You can't negotiate, nor reason with insane people.

So I see zero chance of reasonable outcomes when the Palestinians/Hamas/Fata/Muslims act in insane and irrational ways.

Oh course having a neurotic Jewish population who takes it cues from the Old Testament and God, and think they can do no wrong, is exacerbating things exponentially.
 
2012-11-18 10:08:39 AM

Tatsuma: This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.


Tats,

Hamas only started stepping up rocket attacks after Israel retaliated against Syria for shelling an Israeli outpost, or at least that's how the timeline looks to me.

I've heard my whole life that Hamas is armed and controlled by Syria, just like Hezbollah is armed and controlled by Iran. Just before the rocket attacks that made the news here, there were reports that the IDF was mobilizing along the Syrian border over concern of more civil war spillage.

It just seems to me that the only thing that would stop Hamas would be going after Syria, toppling Assad and dismantling the logistics chain. But Israel is just going after the distraction. Who do the people on the ground in Israel ultimately blame for this? Is Syria even part of the conversation over there?
 
2012-11-18 10:09:32 AM

Tatsuma: UPDATES FOR THE LAST 24 HOURS...


So this is happening again, apparently.
 
2012-11-18 10:11:15 AM

Nemo's Brother: Wasn't Obama supposed to bring peace to the world with his awesomeness and the Arab Spring? The world is a lot worse off now than it was 4 years ago. It is much closer to a World War.


World War? F that. I vote we stay out of it.
 
2012-11-18 10:11:38 AM

Nemo's Brother: Wasn't Obama supposed to bring peace to the world with his awesomeness and the Arab Spring?


No, only idiots like you thought that.

What did Obama have to do with the Arab Spring anyways?
 
2012-11-18 10:12:06 AM

fluffy2097: Smackledorfer: They are not moving towards either a one or two state solution.

How many states do they want then? There are only 2 parties involved in the conflict. ಠ_ಠ


Huh?
They don't want two states. They appear to want one state and one shrinking ghetto controlled by tge state.
 
2012-11-18 10:13:50 AM

Sock Ruh Tease: Tatsuma: What do you expect us to do?

I love how you say "us" like you are a member of the Israeli government or an Israeli soldier. IIRC you are in Israel; this is a trend I've also noticed in protests in the US. (If by some slim chance you are actually fighting, then disregard this post. But over my time reading Fark, I think it's safe to assume you're not.).


ohsnap.jpg

pretty sure that warrants an answer, Toots, lol.

FYI the best anyone's figured out, Tatsuma is a middle aged non ethnic convert from New York who moved to Israel to be a fundie. he might be one of those welfare leeches that do nothing but study Torah and have irresponsible babies but I'm not sure. its always the converts that act the most pious.
 
2012-11-18 10:14:00 AM

ronaprhys: Smackledorfer: The long term policies of Israel Hamas are what lead to the repeating of this event. Israel behaves better in the battles, no doubt there, but always sink right down to the lowest level when it comes to finding an overall.

They are not moving towards either a one or two state solution. Until they do I won't be shedding any more tears (or less) for them than the Palestinians.

Had to update that for reality.


Yea, the country with the army and wealth holds none of the responsibility.
 
2012-11-18 10:14:19 AM

conjecture and hearsay: I don't care about Israel as a state or what it wants to do in conflict but can we all just admit that Jewish people tend to be a little annoying?



Well, there is that.

But only because they think they are better than everyone else. So, now you know how everyone else feels about Americans.

Sucks, eh?
 
2012-11-18 10:15:49 AM

fluffy2097: Mrtraveler01: How does that honestly not make the situation any worse?

If nobody is left alive, there is nobody to complain, and thus no problem.


You should get that oral diarhea treated.
 
2012-11-18 10:16:47 AM

Mrtraveler01: willfullyobscure: I think the problem is that the towelheads overall have never seen total war. hell half of them think the holocaust is a myth. Turn Gaza into Dresden and I bet they'd change their tune PDQ

Molavian: My solution is carpet bombing, but no one likes it when I bring it up.

How does that honestly not make the situation any worse?


can you ask that again in English? not sure what you're trying to say.
 
2012-11-18 10:17:52 AM

willfullyobscure: he might be one of those welfare leeches that do nothing but study Torah and have irresponsible babies but I'm not sure. its always the converts that act the most pious.


Is this before or after they're stoning 7-year old schoolgirls for wearing "scanalous" clothing and going to school?
 
2012-11-18 10:18:48 AM
Is it wrong of me to wish for the Israelis to be utterly and completely wiped out? Kill every Jew across the entire planet so that we no longer have to hear about how they're killing innocent muslim women and children. Level Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, and every buillding within their border.

Would that end this madness?
 
2012-11-18 10:20:53 AM

shotglasss: Is it wrong of me to wish for the Israelis to be utterly and completely wiped out? Kill every Jew across the entire planet so that we no longer have to hear about how they're killing innocent muslim women and children. Level Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, and every buillding within their border.

Would that end this madness?


No, that wouldn't help.

That's a terrible thing to think of.
 
2012-11-18 10:22:11 AM

Tatsuma: UPDATES FOR THE LAST 24 HOURS




Thanks for the great updates. I hope you and yours are safe over there (I'm assuming you are; I could be wrong). I'm not sure why so many on Fark are supporting a terrorist 'state' vs. one of the US's greatest allies, but Israel has the full support of this Lurker (that should turn the tide).

\Keep up the great work
\\Don't feed too many trolls
 
2012-11-18 10:22:38 AM

ginandbacon: Tatsuma: This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.

Tats, 13 children are dead. A pregnant woman was killed. At some point,trucks of food stop making it right.


Well if Hamas did not place military assets in residential areas and put those people in harm's way, they likely would not have died. This is the same crap that Saddam did.
 
2012-11-18 10:22:47 AM
All of you biatching about Israel's response...
If Mexico started lobbing rockets across the border into San Diego, we'd bomb the everloving shiat out of them, and you know it.
 
2012-11-18 10:22:55 AM
Like where is President Peace Prize while this is going down?
Oh yeah. He and Netanyahu dislike each other.
 
2012-11-18 10:23:22 AM

Mrtraveler01: shotglasss: Is it wrong of me to wish for the Israelis to be utterly and completely wiped out? Kill every Jew across the entire planet so that we no longer have to hear about how they're killing innocent muslim women and children. Level Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, and every buillding within their border.

Would that end this madness?

No, that wouldn't help.

That's a terrible thing to think of.


Maybe it is a terrible thing to think of, but it would stop the fighting and killing there, right?
 
2012-11-18 10:23:44 AM

Happy Hours: Tatsuma: This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.

Ah the suffering of civilians suffering. Are you very redundant very often when you're being redundant?

Sorry, it's late here and I've been drinking.

And for some reason I get the feeling that this isn't just going to be the usual skirmish that regularly takes place between Israel and her neighbors. Maybe it is - Seriously, ask any average American about this situation. If they're even aware of it their reaction will probably be Hamas or Hezbollah are lobbing rockets at Israel and Israel is retaliating? So what's new? (That is if they don't have to have Hamas explained to them).

I will admit that I'm not very informed but what does Hamas hope to gain by lobbing rockets into Israel? Do they have any sort of reasonable demands that could be addressed? Or is their stance simply that Israel should cease to exist? Seems like a horribly naive question to ask, but it's probably one which should be answered before we move on to the more complicated questions.


Don't let tatsuma fill you up with lies of bias.

Look up the wikipedia articles associated with it. Hamas is fanatical, violent, and self interested. That much I do not deny, nor do I condone their actions. Just keep in mind that these sentiments dont appear out of thin air. Suicidal fanaticism isn't the default mindset of anyone, there must be some outside influences driving some to such a degree.

There is an apartheid between "real" Israeli citizens and the majority of people who live in the region. Hamas is the symptom of an oppressed people being used as pawns by international coalitions. Middle Eastern countries don't want the people trying to live in Gaza strip actually succeed, because they make a great propaganda tool and distraction to their own citizens. Israel doesn't want to give up control of the people in Gaza strip, nor do they want to allow the subjects they control to have any affect on the Israeli government, namely by denying them a right to vote. Also, Israeli settlements are constantly being built, and Palestinians are being forced out of their homes by bulldozers and bullets, to make room for Israeli land development, all inside Palestinian territory.

Hamas thrives only because the people they are leading are absolutely oppressed, broken, and despondant. They aren't ignorant of the world around them, they know all too well that they are pawns, will probably never have any peace or security, and their economic future is dictated by their Israeli masters. The millions of people living in the Gaza strip are separated from the world by Israel, either by a huge concrete wall over land, or a naval blockade by sea. The oppresive nature of their situation causes the symptoms of violence and fanaticism.
 
2012-11-18 10:24:10 AM

ReverendJasen: If Mexico started lobbing rockets across the border into San Diego, we'd bomb the everloving shiat out of them, and you know it.


Yes, but we aren't forcing Mexicans to live in a ghetto with a density of 12,000 people per square mile forever. Therefore, your false equivalency is false.
 
2012-11-18 10:24:15 AM

zimmerman: 'm not sure why so many on Fark are supporting a terrorist 'state' vs. one of the US's greatest allies,


If you view things in a simplistic way like that I wouldn't blame you.
 
2012-11-18 10:24:28 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: Like where is President Peace Prize while this is going down?
Oh yeah. He and Netanyahu dislike each other.


I don't think Netanyahu dislikes Obama, but he does know that Obama will not help him out and therefore cannot trust Obama.
 
2012-11-18 10:28:07 AM

Tatsuma: This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.


This is just good strategy. Wars are not merely won with weapons. You must also have social support.
 
2012-11-18 10:28:37 AM

Generation_D: Looks like the Israelis are out to test Obama's limits.

I wonder what'd happen if America started holding neocons responsible as collaborators.


That'll happen the same day American jews stop voting democrat.
 
2012-11-18 10:28:42 AM

shotglasss: I don't think Netanyahu dislikes Obama, but he does know that Obama will not help him out kiss his ass all the time like most Republican do and therefore cannot trust Obama.


FTFY

That's the real reason Bibi wanted Romney to win. Because Romney would just go along with whatever Bibi wanted him to (including invading Iran). Because Israel won't go to Iran without our help. Obama's win was a major setback for Bibi as he doesn't have a yes man in the US anymore.
 
2012-11-18 10:28:58 AM

shotglasss: HotIgneous Intruder: Like where is President Peace Prize while this is going down?
Oh yeah. He and Netanyahu dislike each other.

I don't think Netanyahu dislikes Obama, but he does know that Obama will not help him out and therefore cannot trust Obama.


Farking Bibi and Rmoney used to be work buddies. Bibi endorsed Rmoney.
Now the butt hurt bleeds.
Obama and Netanyahu don't like each other. It's common knowledge.
 
2012-11-18 10:29:29 AM

Tatsuma: This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.


How lovely! That will go a long way towards making up for the four women and five children that your pinpoint weapons just blew into pieces a few hours ago. Yeah, I know, Hamas was hiding behind them.
 
2012-11-18 10:32:34 AM

shotglasss: Mrtraveler01: shotglasss: Is it wrong of me to wish for the Israelis to be utterly and completely wiped out? Kill every Jew across the entire planet so that we no longer have to hear about how they're killing innocent muslim women and children. Level Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, and every buillding within their border.

Would that end this madness?

No, that wouldn't help.

That's a terrible thing to think of.

Maybe it is a terrible thing to think of, but it would stop the fighting and killing there, right?


BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!
SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!
 
2012-11-18 10:32:56 AM

Slaxl: ginandbacon: Tatsuma: This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.

Tats, 13 children are dead. A pregnant woman was killed. At some point,trucks of food stop making it right.

I think when you see people posing for photos as dead, then coming back to life to go to the next photo shoot, or pictures of dead Palestinian children that prompts outrage at Israel which turn out to be actually a picture of an Israeli child killed by a Palestinian rocket, or pictures of victims of Israeli attacks which actually turn out to be images recycled from earlier in the year in Syria then you lose all respect for any claim made by a Palestinian.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Israel has never done anything bad and never killed children, of course they have but the Palestinians will never get anywhere by lying constantly. Also throwing stones at someone bigger than you doesn't always work out like it did for David. How can people say that Israel are trying to exterminate the Palestinians, in genocide, when they ship in tons of aid supplies? No military commander would advise giving succor to your enemy, but the Israeli's have done a lot to protect Palestinian civilians, over and above anything we've done, over and above anything Palestinians have done. Even when it's been difficult, like when the Palestinians use their own civilians as human shields.

Sometimes I wonder if I fall prey to Israeli propaganda, but I only think that because I can see the Palestinian lies for what they are, so if one side can lie why not the other? But as far as I can see it's just facts.


Why wouldn't you ship in supplies? The thing about Hamas is that it's full of sons, brothers, neighbors, and fathers. If you turn people against each other then suddenly you have a huge advantage. You have spies, you have grassroots support. You also mitigate the number of replacement soldiers.
 
2012-11-18 10:35:44 AM

sno man 3 Isrealies v. 15 Palestinian citizens last I heard

Sounds balanced and fair to me.

When a nation is attacked, it isn't their job to make sure the same number of their soldiers die as the enemy.

/// good god the left is stupid.
 
2012-11-18 10:37:51 AM

Happy Hours: Tatsuma: This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.

Ah the suffering of civilians suffering. Are you very redundant very often when you're being redundant?

Sorry, it's late here and I've been drinking.

And for some reason I get the feeling that this isn't just going to be the usual skirmish that regularly takes place between Israel and her neighbors. Maybe it is - Seriously, ask any average American about this situation. If they're even aware of it their reaction will probably be Hamas or Hezbollah are lobbing rockets at Israel and Israel is retaliating? So what's new? (That is if they don't have to have Hamas explained to them).

I will admit that I'm not very informed but what does Hamas hope to gain by lobbing rockets into Israel? Do they have any sort of reasonable demands that could be addressed? Or is their stance simply that Israel should cease to exist? Seems like a horribly naive question to ask, but it's probably one which should be answered before we move on to the more complicated questions.


Hamas has a list of demands. As does Israel. Neither have indicated a willingness to compromise. Neither demands are realistic.
 
2012-11-18 10:38:18 AM

starsrift: Mrtraveler01: starsrift: Lotta both sides are bad talk today, which inevitably turns to anti-Israel talk as they have their justice-blind champions.

So if I don't blindly support Israel 100%, does that make me Anti-Israel?

According to some... not me.


Hell, according to some, not supporting Israel 100% makes you anti-Semitic

/respects Israel
//respects Jews
///sees the difference
 
2012-11-18 10:41:07 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: ReverendJasen: If Mexico started lobbing rockets across the border into San Diego, we'd bomb the everloving shiat out of them, and you know it.

Yes, but we aren't forcing Mexicans to live in a ghetto with a density of 12,000 people per square mile forever. Therefore, your false equivalency is false.


There's nothing false about it. It wouldn't matter *why* they were doing it. If they killed Americans, we'd bomb the fark out of them. We would not give them a pass because they were treated badly.
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2012-11-18 10:41:40 AM

Tatsuma: This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.


Then stop launching rockets at areas with no military activity.
 
2012-11-18 10:42:38 AM

ReverendJasen: There's nothing false about it. It wouldn't matter *why* they were doing it. If they killed Americans, we'd bomb the fark out of them. We would not give them a pass because they were treated badly.


If Mexico was being occupied by the US, you'd have a point.
 
2012-11-18 10:43:04 AM
"France says 'war can be avoided'"

HHAHAHhhahahahHHAhahahahHAhaHAHAHAH
 
2012-11-18 10:44:13 AM
nigelparry.com

aftermathnews.files.wordpress.com

www.countercurrents.org


buncha bloodthirsty warmongering savages...
 
2012-11-18 10:44:45 AM

Bontesla:

Hamas has a list of demands. As does Israel. Neither have indicated a willingness to compromise. Neither demands are realistic.


I'm starting to wonder if it's practical for Israel to keep up the blockade given Hamas already has a friendly-ish government in Egypt and tunnels for the more illegal stuff. It would seem like one could use that as a bargaining chip in the short term at least.
 
2012-11-18 10:45:35 AM

NFA: BLAH BLAH BLAH Then stop launching rockets


/FTFY
 
2012-11-18 10:47:02 AM
When Israel pays for trolls to spread propaganda on random forums, you can infer quite a lot about both their priorities and their moral authority.
 
2012-11-18 10:47:14 AM
Anybody watching McCain on Face the Nation right now?

Now it's a party!
 
2012-11-18 10:47:37 AM

Mrs.Sharpier: Ya, I don't have much to contribute other than to say every single one of my Israeli friends on facebook oppose bibi. Paying attention to the troll in this thread is akin to tuning into Glen Beck... He's not a representative of progressive Israelis


Or even relatively moderate Israelis, in many cases.
 
2012-11-18 10:49:08 AM
poop
 
2012-11-18 10:50:01 AM
Alexander the Great wrote about the warring tribes of the middle east. These groups hate each other & have done so for thousands of years. It is going to take a lot more time & evolution for that hatred to disappear. Until then, they will continue to try to wipe each other off the planet.

//its not about politics or land or military attacks-they are just excuses to perpetuate hatred towards each other

//sad
 
2012-11-18 10:51:17 AM

thamike: BigBooper: I didn't read most of the Derp, so I'm sure this has been posted. But what do you think we would do if the drug cartels were firing rockets from Mexico into the United States? How the fark would we have any problem with our military attacking launch sites, rocket factories and storage sites, and the leaders of the attacks?

I doubt the US would bombard, invade, occupy, marginalize and continuously co-antagonize all of Mexico and most of Central America, while calling the president of Mexico a "leader of a terrorist organization" because of it.

F*cking analogies, how do they work?


What if the head of a drug cartel was elected president?
 
2012-11-18 10:53:04 AM
Ah. Another "let's blame the jews" thread.

Ready?

*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....

Fark. The home of anti Semitics at it's finest.
 
2012-11-18 10:53:23 AM
I will be so happy when the asteroid hits and all this god-inspired nonsense comes to an end.
 
2012-11-18 10:54:05 AM

indarwinsshadow: Ah. Another "let's blame the jews" thread.

Ready?

*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....

Fark. The home of anti Semitics at it's finest.


Got nothing huh? 

You guys use the Jew card like it's the race card.
 
2012-11-18 10:56:15 AM

Happy Hours: I will admit that I'm not very informed but what does Hamas hope to gain by lobbing rockets into Israel? Do they have any sort of reasonable demands that could be addressed? Or is their stance simply that Israel should cease to exist? Seems like a horribly naive question to ask, but it's probably one which should be answered before we move on to the more complicated questions.


This is actually an interesting question. The timing of this is awfully curious. It's worthwhile to note that Israel has early domestic elections, and have deliberately antagonized the Palestinians before. It's also worthwhile to note that Abbas - head of the PLO government in West Bank - is making a UN resolution on Nov 29th to recognize Palestine as a state. (This is a vote upon which no country carries veto power). Israel does NOT want Abbas to do this, and Hamas has no reason to see their opposition in West Bank succeed to such a credible degree.
Then there's all the usual things that Palestinians want, like human rights and freedoms.
 
2012-11-18 10:58:03 AM

indarwinsshadow: Ah. Another "let's blame the jews" thread.

Ready?

*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....

Fark. The home of anti Semitics at it's finest.


Well, in literland, Farkers can be terrifying.

There were actual border patrol suggestions that involve murdering border hoppers from helicopters.
 
2012-11-18 10:58:11 AM
RIGHT, SO, everyone talks about upper atmosphere nuke based EMP weapons as being this radiation free awesome endgame? why not detonate one right above TelAviv/Jerusalem/Nazareth and fry-out all the electronic and electrical devices in the whole region. this would nix most weapons, cnn, twitter, etc... making the Holy Land truly Holy again.
 
2012-11-18 10:59:50 AM

Mrtraveler01: indarwinsshadow: Ah. Another "let's blame the jews" thread.

Ready?

*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....

Fark. The home of anti Semitics at it's finest.

Got nothing huh? 

You guys use the Jew card like it's the race card.


i1225.photobucket.com

You should get madder bro....it suits you when I publicly pull your pants down and call you out as a punk.
 
2012-11-18 11:01:00 AM

Bontesla: Well, in literland, Farkers can be terrifying.


Typical... TotalFark Elitist claptrap.

Just because you found some fat loner to buy you a $5 monthly membership doesn't make you better than me, you degenerate tart!
 
2012-11-18 11:07:07 AM

I_Love_Cheesecake: Nice to see our favourite pro-Israel shill out in full force this fine Sunday morning.

Nothing like shooting fish in a barrel (eg., Gaza), eh IDF?



People like you make it so easy to believe Tatsuma in threads like this. It must be daunting for you, when he's coming out swinging with all of this inconvenient "information" and "facts," and all you have are personal attacks, metaphors, and hyperbole. Amos Quito must hate your sort for making his side of things look like a bunch of hormonal, shiat-talking middle-schoolers.
 
2012-11-18 11:10:10 AM

indarwinsshadow: Ah. Another "let's blame the jews" thread.

Ready?

*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....

Fark. The home of anti Semitics at it's finest.


Odd, seems to me a lot of Jews outside Israel think the government of Israel are war hungry farknuts, and have been for 30 years.

Is that just because we're self hating Jews?
 
2012-11-18 11:11:31 AM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: Bontesla: Well, in literland, Farkers can be terrifying.

Typical... TotalFark Elitist claptrap.

Just because you found some fat loner to buy you a $5 monthly membership doesn't make you better than me, you degenerate tart!


Well, considering that you demonstrate poor reading comprehension skills, we've found one area in which I am better than you.

/hint: I didn't say what you think I said
 
2012-11-18 11:11:47 AM
Again, there is plenty of blame to go around, but if you supporters of oppression want to pretend there are two states fighting here with similar arms and tactics, you are delusional. Israel has already killed 10 times as many Palestinians, and they are just getting started. Talk about your overreach, grow the fark up and work out a peace plan already.

This whole idea that Palestine should just leave them alone and get along in peace totally ignores the open-air prison in which the Palestinians live. This can't go on forever, and holding these people responsible for shiat that happened two or three or ten generations ago is barbaric. Israel is holding all the cards here, if they wanted peace they could have had it. I just hope that after the humanitarian crisis that Israel creates, they don't start WWIII.
 
2012-11-18 11:13:10 AM

BigNumber12: I_Love_Cheesecake: Nice to see our favourite pro-Israel shill out in full force this fine Sunday morning.

Nothing like shooting fish in a barrel (eg., Gaza), eh IDF?


People like you make it so easy to believe Tatsuma in threads like this. It must be daunting for you, when he's coming out swinging with all of this inconvenient "information" and "facts," and all you have are personal attacks, metaphors, and hyperbole. Amos Quito must hate your sort for making his side of things look like a bunch of hormonal, shiat-talking middle-schoolers.


Israeli propaganda /= facts

Seriously, if they civilians didn't want to die they just would go somewhere else, right? They have all the power and freedom to do that don't they?
 
2012-11-18 11:13:50 AM

Bontesla: /hint: I didn't say what you think I said


/hint: fellate me, knave
 
2012-11-18 11:15:45 AM

Bungles: indarwinsshadow: Ah. Another "let's blame the jews" thread.

Ready?

*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....

Fark. The home of anti Semitics at it's finest.

Odd, seems to me a lot of Jews outside Israel think the government of Israel are war hungry farknuts, and have been for 30 years.

Is that just because we're self hating Jews?


No, It's laughable and pathetic to read how accepted racism is on fark.
 
2012-11-18 11:15:50 AM

indarwinsshadow: You should get madder bro....it suits you when I publicly pull your pants down and call you out as a punk.


Um...you didn't. But if you want to go with that. Who am I to stop you.
 
2012-11-18 11:15:58 AM

BigNumber12: I_Love_Cheesecake: Nice to see our favourite pro-Israel shill out in full force this fine Sunday morning.

Nothing like shooting fish in a barrel (eg., Gaza), eh IDF?


People like you make it so easy to believe Tatsuma in threads like this. It must be daunting for you, when he's coming out swinging with all of this inconvenient "information" and "facts," and all you have are personal attacks, metaphors, and hyperbole. Amos Quito must hate your sort for making his side of things look like a bunch of hormonal, shiat-talking middle-schoolers.


Yes, Tatsuma is such a respected member of the Fark community, who always convinces people to his point of view.
 
2012-11-18 11:16:33 AM

ginandbacon: BronyMedic: ginandbacon: Tats, 13 children are dead. A pregnant woman was killed.

Shocking. Innocent people would die when terrorist governments hide like cowards behind them, and use them as human meatshields for political gain. At least the Israelis make it a point to attempt to avoid Civilian casualties, not purposefully target them with artillery. You know, like HAMAS.

Curiously enough, I see you aren't making an issue of the fact that their Government has made it a policy to support the shelling of another sovereign nation with mortars and rockets, despite ostensibly holding a peace/cease fire treaty with them.

*sigh*

Yeah, I totally love Hamas. Three Israelis are dead in this most recent idiocy. You think I don't mourn them? We have 50 Palestinians dead (at least) and three Israelis. Enough. It's just more of the same. Israel has been using collective punishment for decades.

Do you think it's working?


Doing nothing didn't seem to stop the rocket attacks.
 
2012-11-18 11:16:58 AM

indarwinsshadow: Bungles: indarwinsshadow: Ah. Another "let's blame the jews" thread.

Ready?

*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....

Fark. The home of anti Semitics at it's finest.

Odd, seems to me a lot of Jews outside Israel think the government of Israel are war hungry farknuts, and have been for 30 years.

Is that just because we're self hating Jews?

No, It's laughable and pathetic to read how accepted racism is on fark.


Because we don't support Bibi and his idiotic policies blindly somehow makes us racist?
 
2012-11-18 11:18:04 AM

ginandbacon: Israeli Deputy PM Yishai: "We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages destroying all the infrastructure including roads & water"


You too.
 
2012-11-18 11:24:52 AM
Just because I'm sick of the analogies, let us unequivocally answer whether the United States would invade and occupy Mexico if they launched cross border raids. Not only would we but indeed did so, on two separate occasions. See: Our response to the Mexican government's detaining of American sailors and perhaps even more apt to the current situation, what occurred following the raid on Columbus, New Mexico by Mexican insurgents.
 
2012-11-18 11:25:31 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: Both sides of this are wrong lying bloodthirsty freaks of the desert.
Neither side deserves a holy land or anything good in life.
I hope they nuke each other into oblivion.
That said, Bibi Netanyahu is going to wear this mess around his neck like a flaming truck tire.
He's being trolled like a boss.

/When either side can present facts that are the truth and both sides STILL look like horrible murderous pigs, you know something bigger is going on here.


Nice opinion. Now get some facts.
 
2012-11-18 11:26:13 AM

ginandbacon: Israeli Deputy PM Yishai: "We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages destroying all the infrastructure including roads & water"


Please tell me he really didn't say that.

It makes it that much harder for me to defend Israel.
 
2012-11-18 11:27:48 AM

jaybeezey: ginandbacon: BronyMedic: ginandbacon: Tats, 13 children are dead. A pregnant woman was killed.

Shocking. Innocent people would die when terrorist governments hide like cowards behind them, and use them as human meatshields for political gain. At least the Israelis make it a point to attempt to avoid Civilian casualties, not purposefully target them with artillery. You know, like HAMAS.

Curiously enough, I see you aren't making an issue of the fact that their Government has made it a policy to support the shelling of another sovereign nation with mortars and rockets, despite ostensibly holding a peace/cease fire treaty with them.

*sigh*

Yeah, I totally love Hamas. Three Israelis are dead in this most recent idiocy. You think I don't mourn them? We have 50 Palestinians dead (at least) and three Israelis. Enough. It's just more of the same. Israel has been using collective punishment for decades.

Do you think it's working?

Doing nothing didn't seem to stop the rocket attacks.


So in your mind the only options are status quo or attacking. Nice.
 
2012-11-18 11:32:28 AM
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

"Mr. President, the reason I call it an apology tour is because you went to the Middle East and you flew to Egypt and to Saudi Arabia and to Turkey and Iraq. And by the way, you skipped Israel, our closest friend in the region, but you went to the other nations.


Now we find out how true that was
 
2012-11-18 11:34:02 AM

hbk72777: [encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 305x165]

"Mr. President, the reason I call it an apology tour is because you went to the Middle East and you flew to Egypt and to Saudi Arabia and to Turkey and Iraq. And by the way, you skipped Israel, our closest friend in the region, but you went to the other nations.


Now we find out how true that was


Except for those times that Obama did go to Israel.

But at that point, Romney and his campaign were still farking the "apology tour" chicken. He was getting desperate.
 
2012-11-18 11:37:57 AM

Mrtraveler01: Because we don't support Bibi and his idiotic policies blindly somehow makes us racist?


...but if right wingers ditched the "criticism for Israeli policy = antisemitism" talking point, they might have to logically and reasonably defend the positions and decisions of Netanyahu, Likud, and its right wing coalition while providing a persuasive case for
Without, you know, managing to sound like Grand Moff Tarkin in the process.
 
2012-11-18 11:45:06 AM

jaybeezey: HotIgneous Intruder: Both sides of this are wrong lying bloodthirsty freaks of the desert.
Neither side deserves a holy land or anything good in life.
I hope they nuke each other into oblivion.
That said, Bibi Netanyahu is going to wear this mess around his neck like a flaming truck tire.
He's being trolled like a boss.

/When either side can present facts that are the truth and both sides STILL look like horrible murderous pigs, you know something bigger is going on here.

Nice opinion. Now get some facts.


Har-har. Bibi is a psychopath, just like DumbYa was.
Does the ironicalness bother you or do you just love to defend murderers?
That's not very pious of you.
 
2012-11-18 11:47:10 AM
Do you think in 200 years there will be a Jewish thanksgiving where they brush over their genocidal conquest of a land by saying the palestinians gave them turkey and cranberry sauce?
 
2012-11-18 11:47:53 AM

Tatsuma: As far as civilians dying, it is tragic, but Hamas themselves admit that they use civilian shields. Not only do they use them, but its their actual official policy to.

"Fathi Hammad: [The enemies of Allah] do not know that the Palestinian people has developed its [methods] of death and death-seeking. For the Palestinian people, death has become an industry, at which women excel, and so do all the people living on this land. The elderly excel at this, and so do the mujahideen and the children. This is why they have formed human shields of the women, the children, the elderly, and the mujahideen, in order to challenge the Zionist bombing machine. It is as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: "We desire death like you desire life."

The bombs cache that the IDF destroyed were usually next to (sometimes inside) mosques, kindergarten, schools, clinics, etc...


It's incredibly sad when civilians die, but they make it a point that they will die. Israel struck more than 900 targets in Gaza in the last 4 days, and killed 3 terrorists for every civilian who sadly died. I think this is a clear indication that the IDF is doing its utmost best to insure that the lives of innocents will not be ended because of Hamas fighters.


That is one of the most nauseating statistics I have ever seen. You get paid to write this horseshiat, or do you just barf up propaganda reflexively?
 
2012-11-18 11:51:49 AM

lilplatinum: Do you think in 200 years there will be a Jewish thanksgiving where they brush over their genocidal conquest of a land by saying the palestinians gave them turkey and cranberry sauce?


In 200 years, Israel will have ceased to exist.
I guarantee it.
 
2012-11-18 11:52:26 AM
solutionfocusedpolitics.files.wordpress.com
send in the Blair


Alright, maybe not

Issue is you have 1.7 million people living in a 30 mile corridor not much more than 5 miles wide. They live in poverty and are ruled by a bunch of thugs who want to destroy western leadership of the free world and constantly seek to indoctrinate the people rather than empower them. That's about the size of it.

Fixing the problem seems to be beyond the people of Gaza, the region and the world
 
2012-11-18 11:57:29 AM

AcneVulgaris: Tatsuma: As far as civilians dying, it is tragic, but Hamas themselves admit that they use civilian shields. Not only do they use them, but its their actual official policy to.

"Fathi Hammad: [The enemies of Allah] do not know that the Palestinian people has developed its [methods] of death and death-seeking. For the Palestinian people, death has become an industry, at which women excel, and so do all the people living on this land. The elderly excel at this, and so do the mujahideen and the children. This is why they have formed human shields of the women, the children, the elderly, and the mujahideen, in order to challenge the Zionist bombing machine. It is as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: "We desire death like you desire life."

The bombs cache that the IDF destroyed were usually next to (sometimes inside) mosques, kindergarten, schools, clinics, etc...


It's incredibly sad when civilians die, but they make it a point that they will die. Israel struck more than 900 targets in Gaza in the last 4 days, and killed 3 terrorists for every civilian who sadly died. I think this is a clear indication that the IDF is doing its utmost best to insure that the lives of innocents will not be ended because of Hamas fighters.

That is one of the most nauseating statistics I have ever seen. You get paid to write this horseshiat, or do you just barf up propaganda reflexively?


He's paid in the sense that this persona is one of the dozen or so used by students doing their IDF conscription time.

Never found it curious how his "facts" often seen to mirror the Israeli talking points not yet released for that night's news cycle?
 
2012-11-18 11:57:39 AM

ginandbacon: Tats, 13 children are dead. A pregnant woman was killed. At some point,trucks of food stop making it right.


How many German pregnant ladies did the United States kill in the 1940s? Every Israeli war is infinitely more justified that any American war has been, and yet people still get a thrill in their voice when they can dream of exterminating the last Jew from the world...
 
2012-11-18 12:01:36 PM

proteus_b: Every Israeli war is infinitely more justified that any American war has been, and yet people still get a thrill in their voice when they can dream of exterminating the last Jew from the world...


I don't want that to happen.

I just want the hardliners on both sides to stop acting like dicks and come to a peaceful agreement.
 
2012-11-18 12:04:19 PM

Tatsuma: yeah leaving


When faced with the perfect opportunity to defend your honor you run. You start the whole thread off screaming your convictions, and when called out you leave. Everything said about you here is what I've felt for a long time, sorry dude.
 
2012-11-18 12:06:22 PM
For those of you asking what the US would do if their was cross border attacks from Mexico
We would send a Patton
 
2012-11-18 12:07:39 PM

ginandbacon: Tatsuma: This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.

Tats, 13 children are dead. A pregnant woman was killed. At some point,trucks of food stop making it right.


At what point does it stop being right for Hamas to kill Israeli civilians? Because people like you pop a hamstring to get up and condemn Israel, but can't be bothered to say anything negative about the other side, unless it's "derp, both sides are bad."
 
2012-11-18 12:11:03 PM

Tatsuma: This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.


Medieval kings used to hand out loaves of bread to the rabble and an occasional gold coin to keep the docile.
 
2012-11-18 12:12:08 PM

Mrtraveler01: ginandbacon: Israeli Deputy PM Yishai: "We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages destroying all the infrastructure including roads & water"

Please tell me he really didn't say that.

It makes it that much harder for me to defend Israel.



I didn't see ginandbacon provide a source for that.
 
2012-11-18 12:14:48 PM

Bungles: BigNumber12: I_Love_Cheesecake: Nice to see our favourite pro-Israel shill out in full force this fine Sunday morning.

Nothing like shooting fish in a barrel (eg., Gaza), eh IDF?


People like you make it so easy to believe Tatsuma in threads like this. It must be daunting for you, when he's coming out swinging with all of this inconvenient "information" and "facts," and all you have are personal attacks, metaphors, and hyperbole. Amos Quito must hate your sort for making his side of things look like a bunch of hormonal, shiat-talking middle-schoolers.

Yes, Tatsuma is such a respected member of the Fark community, who always convinces people to his point of view.



Compared to a lot of the ad hominem, hyperbole, and made-up quotations I'm seeing from the opposing side, appeals to people who think with their hearts rather than their heads, Tatsuma is looking pretty level-headed.
 
2012-11-18 12:15:13 PM

Carousel Beast: At what point does it stop being right for Hamas to kill Israeli civilians?


It's not right for Hamas to kill Israeli citizens. Neither side should have to resort to violent actions and should find more peaceful ways of getting their message across.

That being said, I'm not blind to Israel's faults as well.

I don't know how else I'm supposed to feel about this.
 
2012-11-18 12:15:14 PM

Space_Poet: When faced with the perfect opportunity to defend your honor you run. You start the whole thread off screaming your convictions, and when called out you leave.


Is that really surprising, coming from Tatsuma?
 
2012-11-18 12:15:22 PM

Smackledorfer: The long term policies of Israel are what lead to the repeating of this event. Israel behaves better in the battles, no doubt there, but always sink right down to the lowest level when it comes to finding an overall.

They are not moving towards either a one or two state solution. Until they do I won't be shedding any more tears (or less) for them than the Palestinians.


You know, I keep hearing the same bull shiat from Republicans about Obama. They all say Obama refused to negotiate with Republicans, and thus is to blame a lack of a budget deal.

You can't just say Israel walked away from negotiations over and over. You have to show some evidence at some point.

And the facts are, Israel tried in good faith. Everyone at this point knows the history and details of the two state solution compromise that was offered. No one credible asserts that it was a somehow lopsided and unfair compromise. It was basically a straight down the middle land swap.

They tried. They really, really, really did.

The PLO walked away, and will not return until their preconditions are met.
 
2012-11-18 12:16:02 PM

Blue_Blazer: This whole idea that Palestine should just leave them alone and get along in peace totally ignores the open-air prison in which the Palestinians live. This can't go on forever, and holding these people responsible for shiat that happened two or three or ten generations ago is barbaric


In reality, the rocketfire from Gaza is ongoing and not merely something relevant to those of generations past.
 
2012-11-18 12:17:01 PM

Mrtraveler01: It's not right for Hamas to kill Israeli citizens.


How many Israelis have the Hamas rockets killed over the years vs. the number of Palestinians killed by the Israelis over that same period of time?
 
2012-11-18 12:17:07 PM

BigNumber12: Mrtraveler01: ginandbacon: Israeli Deputy PM Yishai: "We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages destroying all the infrastructure including roads & water"

Please tell me he really didn't say that.

It makes it that much harder for me to defend Israel.


I didn't see ginandbacon provide a source for that.


All I could find was this:

Link

Sigh...damnit Israel, you make it real hard for me to defend you.
 
2012-11-18 12:18:54 PM

indarwinsshadow: Mrtraveler01: indarwinsshadow: Ah. Another "let's blame the jews" thread.

Ready?

*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....*Bong* Bring out your jews....*Bong* Bring out your jews.....

Fark. The home of anti Semitics at it's finest.

Got nothing huh? 

You guys use the Jew card like it's the race card.

[i1225.photobucket.com image 552x360]

You should get madder bro....it suits you when I publicly pull your pants down and call you out as a punk.


Possibly the shiattiest comeback I've ever seen.
 
2012-11-18 12:20:01 PM

Mrtraveler01: ginandbacon: Israeli Deputy PM Yishai: "We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages destroying all the infrastructure including roads & water"

Please tell me he really didn't say that.

It makes it that much harder for me to defend Israel.


I can't come up with a cite better than HuffPo and the like, but I heard it last night on a BBC broadcast while messing with some radio software. For whatever that's worth.

Also, wow...we've found someone that plays the "ZOMG antisemitic!!1!" card even faster than the usual guy.
 
2012-11-18 12:20:13 PM

BigNumber12: Mrtraveler01: ginandbacon: Israeli Deputy PM Yishai: "We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages destroying all the infrastructure including roads & water"

Please tell me he really didn't say that.

It makes it that much harder for me to defend Israel.


I didn't see ginandbacon provide a source for that.


Apparently, he did say that:

According to the newspaper Haaretz, Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai said the "goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages."
 
2012-11-18 12:21:00 PM

INeedAName: Hell, what would you say if we just up and moved into Mexico, kicked 'em out a few choice spots then built new walls around everything we took? I wouldn't blame them for firing rockets and I would gladly get all up on the President's case about wtf we were doing!


Actually we did that, took more than half the country... and didn't give it back. Now we shoot people who try to enter that territory. I guess that makes us genocidal mass-murderers.
 
2012-11-18 12:22:33 PM

I_Love_Cheesecake: BigNumber12: Mrtraveler01: ginandbacon: Israeli Deputy PM Yishai: "We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages destroying all the infrastructure including roads & water"

Please tell me he really didn't say that.

It makes it that much harder for me to defend Israel.


I didn't see ginandbacon provide a source for that.

Apparently, he did say that:

According to the newspaper Haaretz, Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai said the "goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages."



That wasn't a wise thing to say.
 
2012-11-18 12:23:17 PM

Tatsuma: This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.


so it's cool if I punch you in the face as long as I offer you an aspirin afterwards?
 
2012-11-18 12:25:27 PM

I_Love_Cheesecake: BigNumber12: Mrtraveler01: ginandbacon: Israeli Deputy PM Yishai: "We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages destroying all the infrastructure including roads & water"

Please tell me he really didn't say that.

It makes it that much harder for me to defend Israel.


I didn't see ginandbacon provide a source for that.

Apparently, he did say that:

According to the newspaper Haaretz, Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai said the "goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages."


Well everyone knows that Haaretz is an Anti-Semitic newspaper.
 
2012-11-18 12:26:40 PM

BigNumber12: I_Love_Cheesecake: BigNumber12: Mrtraveler01: ginandbacon: Israeli Deputy PM Yishai: "We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages destroying all the infrastructure including roads & water"

Please tell me he really didn't say that.

It makes it that much harder for me to defend Israel.


I didn't see ginandbacon provide a source for that.

Apparently, he did say that:

According to the newspaper Haaretz, Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai said the "goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages."


That wasn't a wise thing to say.


This is what happens when you put the hardliners in charge.

Now if the Center parties in Israel would unite under one party instead of many smaller parties, we wouldn't have to deal with this bullshiat.
 
2012-11-18 12:28:10 PM
UPDATES FOR THE LAST 24 HOURS

not a fully comprehensive list, but rather one representing a selection
of less reported news items/major points that need awareness



Within the last hour:

- New barrage of rockets toward Tel Aviv; they are all being taken out by the Iron Dome
- Head of Hamas' rocket program has been killed
- Hamas have started to let their foreign national hostages leave the strip, starting with diplomats
- An Israeli delegation has arrived in Cairo for talks with the Egyptian government, but warned ground operation preparations going on
- There are protests in the Sinai with Salafists saying they want to walk into Gaza


The last 24 hours

- A fifth Israeli died yesterday, a year old man died from a heart attack while running for cover
- 68 were killed in Gaza, at least 13 of them civilians (with contradicting information from the PHRC, who often claims Hamas and other terrorists as civilians) since beginning of the strikes
- More than 100 rockets fired by Hamas fell into Gaza before reaching Israel, damaging buildings and sometimes killing Gazans

- Southern Israel is still under attack, with multiple direct hits on houses and buildings. Hundreds were fired today.
- Hamas has fired more than 1,200 rockets at Israel this year alone, more than 600 in the last four days. Last year, the total of rockets fired at Israel from Gaza was 627
- Hamas parliament building was destroyed yesterday, included in the now 1000+ strikes that have happened in Gaza in the last four days.
- Multiple Fajr-5 missiles were fired at Tel Aviv and toward Jerusalem, but were shot down by the Iron Dome
- IDF are dropping leaflets into Gaza: Important Message to Gaza Strip residents: Hamas is playing with fire and endangering your lives for naught. The IDF is proceeding to the next phase. For your own safety, we ask you to adhere to our instructions and distance yourselves from Hamas operatives and infrastructure. Sincerely, THE IDF.


- Hamas has declared that they are considering starting suicide bombings again, warn the IDF that 'suicide squads' are waiting for them in Gaza. Judean People's Front is now in play.
- Syria claims that Israel killed 3 Syrian soldiers in retaliation attacks in Northern Israel
- NYT reports that the Obama administration is pressing Israel not to enter Gaza
- Obama administration sending $300M to Israel in order to build an additional 7 Iron Domes around Israel, bringing the total to 13 and covering the whole country
- Israel says 'no ceasefire until Hamas stops firing rockets at our civilians, we haven't received an offer of truce anyway'

- Iran denies that they are the ones who provided the Iranian Fajr-5 to Hamas; Islamic Jihad declared later that from the first missile to last bullet, everything they have comes from Iran
- Hizbullah says that IDF is making a grave mistake if they enter Gaza, that they won't personally be involved because they are busy with Syria, but Egypt should do something about it
- Protests have been happening everywhere in the West Bank, in relatively low numbers.
 
2012-11-18 12:29:30 PM

I_Love_Cheesecake: Mrtraveler01: It's not right for Hamas to kill Israeli citizens.

How many Israelis have the Hamas rockets killed over the years vs. the number of Palestinians killed by the Israelis over that same period of time?


So should Israel pull some captured BM-31 launchers out of storage and fire katyushas back?
Wait for a tit-for-tat on killing? oh we killed 5 of them, lets wait for them to kill two more of us before we fire again
 
2012-11-18 12:30:49 PM
Oh boy, this thread again!
 
2012-11-18 12:35:22 PM

Mrtraveler01: I_Love_Cheesecake: BigNumber12: Mrtraveler01: ginandbacon: Israeli Deputy PM Yishai: "We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages destroying all the infrastructure including roads & water"

Please tell me he really didn't say that.

It makes it that much harder for me to defend Israel.


I didn't see ginandbacon provide a source for that.

Apparently, he did say that:

According to the newspaper Haaretz, Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai said the "goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages."

Well everyone knows that Haaretz is an Anti-Semitic newspaper.


I don't post BS. Challenge me on my opinions but not on my facts.
 
2012-11-18 12:36:51 PM

Carousel Beast: At what point does it stop being right for Hamas to kill Israeli civilians? Because people like you pop a hamstring to get up and condemn Israel, but can't be bothered to say anything negative about the other side, unless it's "derp, both sides are bad."


I think we can take it as read that Hamas, like the IRA or Al Qaeda, are bad people who do bad things. It doesn't have to be constantly reiterated.

It's like police brutality; bad and we don't need reminded that rapists are bad too.
 
2012-11-18 12:39:04 PM

ginandbacon: Mrtraveler01: I_Love_Cheesecake: BigNumber12: Mrtraveler01: ginandbacon: Israeli Deputy PM Yishai: "We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages destroying all the infrastructure including roads & water"

Please tell me he really didn't say that.

It makes it that much harder for me to defend Israel.


I didn't see ginandbacon provide a source for that.

Apparently, he did say that:

According to the newspaper Haaretz, Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai said the "goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages."

Well everyone knows that Haaretz is an Anti-Semitic newspaper.

I don't post BS. Challenge me on my opinions but not on my facts.


I was being sarcastic since Haaretz is basically the New York Times of Israel.

If they say it, I believe it.
 
2012-11-18 12:39:06 PM

Mrtraveler01: BigNumber12: Mrtraveler01: ginandbacon: Israeli Deputy PM Yishai: "We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages destroying all the infrastructure including roads & water"

Please tell me he really didn't say that.

It makes it that much harder for me to defend Israel.


I didn't see ginandbacon provide a source for that.

All I could find was this:

Link

Sigh...damnit Israel, you make it real hard for me to defend you.


how did this current round of tit for tat start?
how did the entire thing start back in 1948,
before that in 1967?
before that in 1973?
why is the bigger guy supposed to take a bunch to the face from a little guy repeatedly and then turn the other cheek?
it seems like you people simply look at who is the weaker of the two in this moment in history and reflexively blame the other side.

I can see no other way you continually pretend Israel is the aggressor.

because I know the history of the wars of that region very well, and I know Israel didn't start any of them, and I know this continuing struggle is based on the unwillingness of today's Palestinians to come to peace terms after THEIR F*CKING GRANDPARENTS and the regional allies of their grandparents started and lost now 46 years ago.
and don't give me shiat about the settlements.
if the Palestinians signed a f*cking peace treaty sometime in the last 46 years the settlement grab couldn't happen. you want to refuse to come to terms, you'll continue to be occupied. that's the way war f*cking works. that's why you don;t f*ckinig start wars, and if you do and lose, you come to a peace.

it's the fact that they Palestinians refuse to come to terms on any peace without the right of now almost millions of Palestinian descendants to return and live in the land their grandfathers farmed in Israel plus move the borders back to the pre-1967 borders.

they are holding out for the most generous peace ever offered in the history of warfare when they started it then got their ass kicked. it's ridiculous.
 
2012-11-18 12:40:23 PM

relcec: how did the entire thing start back in 1948 1929,


FTFY

1929 Hebron Massacre
 
2012-11-18 12:43:00 PM

Mrtraveler01: I was being sarcastic since Haaretz is basically the New York Times of Israel.

If they say it, I believe it.


Well that's ignorant of you, as this is a very very minor newspaper that has almost no impact on Israel (less than 5% of the readership of all newspapers) and their editor a few years ago admit that they straight up lied and did not report facts in order to advance the cause of a two-state solution, and that they'd do it again in the future even if it meant keeping a corrupt leader (both Sharon and Olmert) in power.
 
2012-11-18 12:44:07 PM

I_Love_Cheesecake: According to the newspaper Haaretz, Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai said the "goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages."


I doubt that they could be knocked that far forward in one operation, but it's worth a shot!
 
2012-11-18 12:44:11 PM

Tatsuma: corrupt leader (both Sharon and Olmert)


I'll give you Olmert, how was Sharon corrupt?
 
2012-11-18 12:47:10 PM

Tatsuma: Well that's ignorant of you, as this is a very very minor newspaper that has almost no impact on Israel (less than 5% of the readership of all newspapers)


The 4th most read newspaper in Israel doesn't have any impact on Israel?

WTF?
 
2012-11-18 12:47:55 PM

I_Love_Cheesecake: Mrtraveler01: It's not right for Hamas to kill Israeli citizens.

How many Israelis have the Hamas rockets killed over the years vs. the number of Palestinians killed by the Israelis over that same period of time?


How may civilians has Hamas intentionally targeted vs. how many civilians the IDF has intentionally targeted?

How may civilians has Hamas intentionally hid behind vs. how many civilians the IDF has hid behind?

Just because their tech is so far behind that they usually fail at their mission to intentionally murder as many civilians as possible they don't get a free pass.
 
2012-11-18 12:47:57 PM

zedster: I'll give you Olmert, how was Sharon corrupt?


It is a fairly known thing in Israel, the 'Cyril Kern affair'.

Haaretz buried the story because of the Gaza pullout.
 
2012-11-18 12:49:45 PM

Mrtraveler01: The 4th most read newspaper in Israel doesn't have any impact on Israel?


Again, 5% of the market. 95% of the country does not care about Haaretz.

I don't understand why you can't grasp that very simple fact.
 
2012-11-18 12:51:56 PM

Tatsuma: Mrtraveler01: The 4th most read newspaper in Israel doesn't have any impact on Israel?

Again, 5% of the market. 95% of the country does not care about Haaretz.

I don't understand why you can't grasp that very simple fact.


Well outside of learning Hebrew, what other newspaper should I read then?
 
2012-11-18 12:52:29 PM

zedster: I'll give you Olmert, how was Sharon corrupt?


From Wikipedia

[He] lost favor with the Israeli public after a long chain of scandals involving his marriage and corruption charges. In 1997, police recommended that [he] be indicted on corruption charges for influence-peddling. He was accused of appointing an attorney general who would reduce the charges and prosecutors ruled that there was insufficient evidence to go to trial. In 1999, [he] faced another scandal when the Israel Police recommended that he be tried for corruption for $100,000 in free services from a government contractor; Israel's attorney general did not prosecute, citing difficulties with evidence.

Oh no, hang on, that was Netanyahu.
 
2012-11-18 12:54:22 PM

orbister: zedster: I'll give you Olmert, how was Sharon corrupt?

From Wikipedia

[He] lost favor with the Israeli public after a long chain of scandals involving his marriage and corruption charges. In 1997, police recommended that [he] be indicted on corruption charges for influence-peddling. He was accused of appointing an attorney general who would reduce the charges and prosecutors ruled that there was insufficient evidence to go to trial. In 1999, [he] faced another scandal when the Israel Police recommended that he be tried for corruption for $100,000 in free services from a government contractor; Israel's attorney general did not prosecute, citing difficulties with evidence.

Oh no, hang on, that was Netanyahu.


Is there anyone in Israel who ISN'T corrupt?
 
2012-11-18 12:55:34 PM

Mrtraveler01: Well outside of learning Hebrew, what other newspaper should I read then?


Ynet News and Israel HaYom cover between 60-70% of the Israeli newspaper market. Maariv is only in Hebrew, and all three of them cover about 90% of the market for newspapers in Israel.

Haaretz is insignificant and only has an impact outside of Israel.
 
2012-11-18 12:57:34 PM

Tatsuma: Again, 5% of the market. 95% of the country does not care about Haaretz.

I don't understand why you can't grasp that very simple fact.


The Times has 4.4% of total UK newpaper readership (400,000 out of 9,000,000). Influential newspapers of record are rarely the mass circulation ones.
 
2012-11-18 12:58:52 PM
In war there is no such thing as "balanced" casualties or "balanced" retaliation...This concept is moronic and Hamas and anyone else that uses it needs to just stop..

/you mess with the bull, you get the horns, the teeth, the hooves, the whole damn thing...
 
2012-11-18 12:59:00 PM

Mrtraveler01: Is there anyone in Israel who ISN'T corrupt?


It amazes me what they let their politicians get away with. How the hell did Sharon come back from Sabra and Shatila?
 
2012-11-18 01:17:20 PM

INeedAName: Mrtraveler01: BigBooper: didn't read most of the Derp, so I'm sure this has been posted. But what do you think we would do if the drug cartels were firing rockets from Mexico into the United States?

If Mexico was occupied territory, you'd have a point.

Hell, what would you say if we just up and moved into Mexico, kicked 'em out a few choice spots then built new walls around everything we took? I wouldn't blame them for firing rockets and I would gladly get all up on the President's case about wtf we were doing!


*ahem*
vagabonders-supreme.net
 
2012-11-18 01:24:46 PM

ginandbacon: Tats, 13 children are dead. A pregnant woman was killed. At some point,trucks of food stop making it right.


Civilians die in war, always have and always will.
 
2012-11-18 01:26:31 PM
i.chzbgr.com
 
2012-11-18 01:28:03 PM

Mrs.Sharpier: progressive Israelis


I thought all the pussified "progressive Israelis" were the ones calmly lining up outside the gas chambers and had been eradicated as a sub-species? You mean to tell me a group of people so persecuted are willing to allow others to lead them to slaughter again?

I guess there is no limit to the bounds of how far humans will stoop to feel "safe" and to be "taken care of". I prefer my Israeli friends who have the "Never again will I make peace with those who would destroy us" attitude.
 
2012-11-18 01:28:13 PM

Farking Canuck: How may civilians has Hamas intentionally targeted vs. how many civilians the IDF has intentionally targeted?


Hamas cannot intentionally target anything. Their rockets have no guidance. They are terror weapons.
 
2012-11-18 01:29:52 PM

sinschild: I thought all the pussified "progressive Israelis" were the ones calmly lining up outside the gas chambers and had been eradicated as a sub-species? You mean to tell me a group of people so persecuted are willing to allow others to lead them to slaughter again?


0/10
 
2012-11-18 01:31:14 PM

fluffy2097: Hamas cannot intentionally target anything. Their rockets have no guidance. They are terror weapons.


Well that's false on many levels:

1 - While the lower grade of rockets might be more or less unguided, they certainly can and do target civilians using them, as they point them toward cities before firing them. Just because they do not have a guidance system does not mean they can't be used to target something. A 9mm doesn't have a guidance system either, yet if you point and shoot at someone, you wouldn't say you didn't target them

2 - The higher-end weapons they have been using the last weeks (anti-aircraft missiles, anti-tank guided missiles, longer range missiles) etc... certainly have guidance system in them as well.
 
2012-11-18 01:36:08 PM
www.camelphotos.com
 
2012-11-18 01:41:10 PM

Tman144:
*ahem*
[vagabonders-supreme.net image 640x429]


How dare you bring up facts and history. It was God's WillTM when we did it. Those Jews don't have no Jebus on their side, so they're evil.
 
2012-11-18 01:58:03 PM

Molavian: My solution is carpet bombing, but no one likes it when I bring it up.


Well, people are rather fond of carpets, in general.
 
2012-11-18 02:01:07 PM
Headline:

Violence a daily reality as world leaders push for Israel-Gaza cease-fire

Guess which side always breaks the cease-fire, at least 100% of the time so far? Why even bother asking for a cease-fire if you know in advance the non-Israelis will not cease fire?
 
2012-11-18 02:02:58 PM
Israels 'operation genocide'... farking idiot media, Israel is Hitlers bastard son. And no one notices.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrtuBas3Ipw
 
2012-11-18 02:07:01 PM

ReverendJasen: How dare you bring up facts and history. It was God's WillTM when we did it. Those Jews don't have no Jebus on their side, so they're evil.


It always mystifies me that the evangelical protestants in the US and A all all pro-Israel.
I mean, didn't they read the bible?
 
2012-11-18 02:07:18 PM

zimmerman: a terrorist 'state' vs. one of the US's greatest allies


Israel is a terrorist state and a huge part of its establishment involved terrorism, and while internationally it might be more recognized, it's claims to land are just at tenuous as the Palestinians. They're also a horrible ally.
Not that Hamas is cuddles and puppies, but you may have picked the wrong day to stop huffing glue.
 
2012-11-18 02:07:19 PM
1,100 strikes in Gaza, where more than 1 million live.

less than 70 dead, the vast majority terrorists.

Man, we REALLY suck at genocide.
 
2012-11-18 02:07:54 PM

sheep snorter: Israels 'operation genocide'... farking idiot media, Israel is Hitlers bastard son. And no one notices.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrtuBas3Ipw


Well yes.
 
2012-11-18 02:08:03 PM

fluffy2097: Farking Canuck: How may civilians has Hamas intentionally targeted vs. how many civilians the IDF has intentionally targeted?

Hamas cannot intentionally target anything. Their rockets have no guidance. They are terror weapons.


Right ... like on April 7, 2011 when they fired a laser-guided missile at a school bus killing a child.

Or when they suicide bomb civilian targets including schools and school buses.

I am not a fan of the Israelis or their actions in Gaza, etc. But as long as Hamas continues to target civilians (including explicit targeting of children) and continue to hide behind their own civilians they will never get my support.

I don't care how bad it gets for you ... if you ever feel that targeting children or firing rockets from schools or mosques (so that your own civilians will get killed in the retaliation (good press for you)) is justified then just put a bullet into your own head. You are twisted scum who does not deserve to live.
 
2012-11-18 02:09:54 PM
God's will...lol. What arrogance, we don't know God's will. Invisible friends are so hard to understand. Hummus any one?
 
2012-11-18 02:12:58 PM

BolloxReader: What if the head of a drug cartel was elected president?


What if?
 
2012-11-18 02:13:15 PM
Personally I'm glad that there are no other wars or conflicts going on to distract us from throwing millions of dollars at an already affluent religious state. Haven't we paid them enough by now? Let em have their own war. We don't give two shiats about massacres in Africa or South America, why get so frantic over a thousands of years old conflict that we can never resolve? It's not our damn place to fight or fund their ancient hatred.
 
2012-11-18 02:14:05 PM

Tatsuma: 1,100 strikes in Gaza, where more than 1 million live.

less than 70 dead, the vast majority terrorists.

Man, we REALLY suck at genocide.


1. The ends justify the means, do they?

2. This entire conflict has really made me lose my faith in humanity... No innocent people on either side should have to die for this.
 
2012-11-18 02:15:19 PM

indarwinsshadow: No, It's laughable and pathetic to read how accepted racism is on fark.


Try /pol/ sometime if you think this is bad.
But yes, Fark has its share of white supremacists and racists, check any thread where police abuse minorities or Republicans are trying to defend their arguments.
Fark is a US site and one half of our two party system is a far right nationalist racist party akin to the National Front in other countries. It's just a reflection of modern America.
 
2012-11-18 02:16:14 PM

thamike: BolloxReader: What if the head of a drug cartel was elected president?

What if?


Apparently he doesn't know that George H.W. Bush was director of one of the largest and most devious drug cartels
 
2012-11-18 02:17:38 PM

Tatsuma: Man, we REALLY suck at genocide.


Don't sweat it slugger... you'll get better with practice!

/ who wants ice cream?
 
2012-11-18 02:23:12 PM
Peace process:

1) Stop shooting rockets into Israel.
2) Israel stops firing back.
3) Work some shiat out.
4) Profit.

Been waiting for years for step 1.
 
2012-11-18 02:24:25 PM

sinschild: I thought all the pussified "progressive Israelis" were the ones calmly lining up outside the gas chambers and had been eradicated as a sub-species? You mean to tell me a group of people so persecuted are willing to allow others to lead them to slaughter again?


"Progressive Israelis" were the type that fought back against the Nazis, bonus points if they did it when anti-fascism was considered "premature". Progressive Israelis are the ones who would be against their current fascist scum government.
 
2012-11-18 02:27:12 PM

sinschild: I guess there is no limit to the bounds of how far humans will stoop to feel "safe" and to be "taken care of". I prefer my Israeli friends who have the "Never again will I make peace with those who would destroy us" attitude.


That's the sort of attitude which held back a solution in Northern Ireland for 30 years. Mind you, my sympathies are with the Israelis on this one.
 
2012-11-18 02:32:54 PM
For some reason these threads are alot better on Saturdays
 
2012-11-18 02:33:43 PM

ACallForPeace: indarwinsshadow: No, It's laughable and pathetic to read how accepted racism is on fark.

Try /pol/ sometime if you think this is bad.
But yes, Fark has its share of white supremacists and racists, check any thread where police abuse minorities or Republicans are trying to defend their arguments.
Fark is a US site and one half of our two party system is a far right nationalist racist party akin to the National Front in other countries. It's just a reflection of modern America.


Thankfully the other half isn't at all given to hyperbole or over-reaction.
 
2012-11-18 02:37:53 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: ReverendJasen: How dare you bring up facts and history. It was God's WillTM when we did it. Those Jews don't have no Jebus on their side, so they're evil.

It always mystifies me that the evangelical protestants in the US and A all all pro-Israel.
I mean, didn't they read the bible?


Yeah, thats why. They get a woodie about "the end times". The foundation of a Jewish state means Armageddon. Armageddon means Jeebus comes back
 
2012-11-18 02:43:24 PM
Why arent the Palestinian people looking for Hamas themselves?
 
2012-11-18 02:57:48 PM

astroturd: Why arent the Palestinian people looking for Hamas themselves?


Because when all you've got is Hamas, everything looks like Niles?
 
2012-11-18 03:01:01 PM

ginandbacon: "The sites hit in Gaza early Sunday included buildings used by Britain's Sky News channel and the Dubai-based pan-Arab broadcaster al-Arabiya, the news organizations reported. At least six journalists were wounded, according to a health ministry spokesman in Gaza quoted by wire services." Link


FTL:

One of the buildings was used by al-Quds channel, which serves as a mouthpiece for Hamas, the militant group that rules Gaza. The Foreign Press Association in Israel issued a letter expressing concern and noting that a United Nations Security Council resolution says that journalists covering conflict civilians that must be protected.

The Israeli military said the sites struck overnight included a "communications antenna used by Hamas to carry out terrorist activity." In a statement, it said it also hit dozens of underground rocket launchers and a Hamas training base.


Doesn't sound like Sky News and Al-Arabiya were targeted, they're just in a bad location in a strategic target building.
 
2012-11-18 03:12:08 PM

croesius: thamike: BolloxReader: What if the head of a drug cartel was elected president?

What if?

Apparently he doesn't know that George H.W. Bush was director of one of the largest and most devious drug cartels


And he was the "good" Bush.
 
2012-11-18 03:19:08 PM

Farking Canuck: I_Love_Cheesecake: Mrtraveler01: It's not right for Hamas to kill Israeli citizens.

How many Israelis have the Hamas rockets killed over the years vs. the number of Palestinians killed by the Israelis over that same period of time?

How may civilians has Hamas intentionally targeted vs. how many civilians the IDF has intentionally targeted?

How may civilians has Hamas intentionally hid behind vs. how many civilians the IDF has hid behind?

Just because their tech is so far behind that they usually fail at their mission to intentionally murder as many civilians as possible they don't get a free pass.


I'm amazed sometimes at how willing people are to hold a dual standard, to judge two groups based on completely separate criteria, just so they can rationalize supporting the underdog. Being poor, hungry, weak, downtrodden, repressed and militarily inferior does not make one right, or justify abandoning ethical or moral obligations simply to cause harm - not to win, mind you - to the other side in a conflict.

Evaluate both sides with identical criteria, and there is no way in which Hamas is not the primary aggressor, in which the burden of guilt and responsibility does not lie primarily with them. Sadly, this also means they are the side which has the power to produce peace. In any real way, what happens next is up to them. The fact that this war is continuing is because they want it to.
 
2012-11-18 03:25:48 PM

quietwalker: Evaluate both sides with identical criteria, and there is no way in which Hamas is not the primary aggressor, in which the burden of guilt and responsibility does not lie primarily with them. Sadly, this also means they are the side which has the power to produce peace. In any real way, what happens next is up to them. The fact that this war is continuing is because they want it to.


rlv.zcache.com

Is not peace. And neither fighting side is interested in peace. One side wants proprietary rights, and the other wants equality, statehood, and at least regional credibility. I don't even need to get into religion to see that these two interests, pitched against one another, can never lead to peace. Only a madman or a con man would be able to say so with a straight face.
 
2012-11-18 03:33:12 PM

bmihura:
Guess which side always breaks the cease-fire, at least 100% of the time so far? Why even bother asking for a cease-fire if you know in advance the non-Israelis will not cease fire?


o rly?
 
2012-11-18 03:34:03 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: doglover: ginandbacon: Tats, 13 children are dead. A pregnant woman was killed.

Hamas doesn't follow the Geneva convention. Civilians get killed when used as shields.

Israel might be full of assholes, but they play by the rules.

And when you say "Play by the rules" that means discard the rules and then claim that the other side did it first?

Just wondering, because anyone who actually believes what you just typed is fully delusional.


So, are you saying that Hamas doesn't use human shields?
 
2012-11-18 03:37:17 PM
Dear Hamas, don't whine about civilians getting killed if you put your forces near civilians.
 
2012-11-18 03:48:06 PM

proteus_b: ginandbacon: Tats, 13 children are dead. A pregnant woman was killed. At some point,trucks of food stop making it right.

How many German pregnant ladies did the United States kill in the 1940s? Every Israeli war is infinitely more justified that any American war has been, and yet people still get a thrill in their voice when they can dream of exterminating the last Jew from the world...


I'm sorry, I'm high on cold medicine. Did you just refer to World War II as an American war?
 
2012-11-18 04:13:06 PM

quietwalker: Evaluate both sides with identical criteria, and there is no way in which Hamas is not the primary aggressor, in which the burden of guilt and responsibility does not lie primarily with them.


You understand the whole idea that in an asymmetric conflict, "both sides" cannot and should not be judged by identical criteria, right? Case in point, Tatsuma's own statistics: over 600 rocket strikes have killed three Israelis, two indirectly, and a hundred of those didn't even make it to Israeli territory. Of the rest, Israeli missile defense took most of those out with the few that made it through being ineffectual.

You're telling me from that, Israel is not only justified in employing massive retaliation (over a thousand air strikes so far targeting critical infrastructure with the promise of a follow-up ground invasion and occupation) but has an ethical mandate to do so? That's a fundamentally out-of-whack perspective, especially when the stated means and goals of asymmetric warfare, i.e. terrorism, is to provoke a massive retaliation that saps economic resources, popular support, and credibility in the international community while simultaneously justifying the 'terrorists' own means and goals and increasing popular support.

In short, Israel is playing right into Hamas' hands. Israel's own massive retaliation doctrine justifies Hamas and its actions to Palestinians living in Gaza and perpetuates the cycle of conflict. This is particularly poignant in light of the fact Israel's own anti-missile defenses have been demonstrated in this very conflict to trivialize Hamas' most-destructive form of attack. Without inquiring or presuming of the ideology and goals of Netanyahu, Likud, or the Israeli right wing, why would you support Israel being willfully and intentionally manipulated by Hamas so?
 
2012-11-18 04:14:11 PM

thamike: Is not peace.


Obliterating your enemies will most certainly lead to peace.
 
2012-11-18 04:19:34 PM
Massive barrage of rockets happening right now in the south, and has been happening for about half an hour right now
 
2012-11-18 04:26:46 PM

Tatsuma: Massive barrage of rockets happening right now in the south, and has been happening for about half an hour right now


OH MY GOD, GOY, LOOK HOW JUSTIFIED WE ARE IN OUR ASSAULT! SUPPORT THE JEWISH STATE OR ELSE GOY, THIS MAY BE YOU!
 
2012-11-18 04:27:05 PM
Hai guyz! Any outrage over the Syrian Civil War? No? Nice to see how Egypt and Qatar get all worked up about Israel bumping off a few Hamas militants, but are cool with Syria killing thousands of their own people.

Whar, outrage, whar?
 
2012-11-18 04:31:50 PM
"It's not enough to say 'Hamas will surrender,'" Eiland continued. "We need to give something, if not to Hamas, then to others. It's impossible to reach a point where one side will surrender. Sometimes we become captive to slogans like 'We won't talk with Hamas.' I say the opposite. It's a fact that Hamas rules Gaza and that Gaza is a state. We need to recognize this and utilize the advantages this situation presents."Link
 
2012-11-18 04:40:44 PM

Molavian: Obliterating your enemies will most certainly lead to peace.


You know who else tried to obliterate his enemies?
 
2012-11-18 04:41:23 PM

Tatsuma: Massive barrage of rockets happening right now in the south, and has been happening for about half an hour right now


Had Hamas done anything to provoke it?
 
2012-11-18 04:42:10 PM

Mr. Holmes: Hai guyz! Any outrage over the Syrian Civil War? No? Nice to see how Egypt and Qatar get all worked up about Israel bumping off a few Hamas militants, but are cool with Syria killing thousands of their own people.

Whar, outrage, whar?


Good question... I think a lot of interest in the Syrian situation faded when the rebels proved to be just as bloodthirsty as the Assad folks.

A lot of the "fair-weather friends" vanished when the rebels "got tough"
 
2012-11-18 04:43:02 PM

orbister: Had Hamas done anything to provoke it?


They were wearing short-skirts and low cut blouses... they were totally asking for it!
 
2012-11-18 04:48:28 PM
Hamas: 90% of details of ceasefire with Israel have been agreed to
 
2012-11-18 04:48:35 PM
It was suggested on "Face The Nation" that this might just be a warm up to test the "iron dome" before a strike on Iran.
 
2012-11-18 05:55:35 PM

Tatsuma: Hamas: 90% of details of ceasefire with Israel have been agreed to


So hamas is like north korea now?
Send off some rockets, get bombed and the get free stuff?

Is Bibi a national hero yet?
 
2012-11-18 05:57:45 PM

Tatsuma: Massive barrage of rockets happening right now in the south, and has been happening for about half an hour right now


Where, oh where, are all these rockets coming from? I mean, who built them and then brought them to Gaza? It's a shame the Israelis are too stupid to stop this activity. Or maybe they choose not to stop them, since is looks better to appear to be the innocent party.
 
2012-11-18 06:01:07 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Tatsuma: Massive barrage of rockets happening right now in the south, and has been happening for about half an hour right now

Where, oh where, are all these rockets coming from? I mean, who built them and then brought them to Gaza? It's a shame the Israelis are too stupid to stop this activity. Or maybe they choose not to stop them, since is looks better to appear to be the innocent party.


Hamas doesn't even represent Gazans anyway. They're foreign, funded by Shi'ite Iran, and taking part in destroying a predominately Sunni population. They are an occupying force. Gazans would probably be relieved if Hamas was eradicated, rather than thrown around their necks like a noose by Israel, who only cares about money and land in this situation.
 
2012-11-18 06:01:44 PM

OnlyM3:
When a nation is attacked, it isn't their job to make sure the same number of their soldiers die as the enemy.

/// good god the left is stupid.


My numbers were civilians, rookie. And the total is supposed to be none if you are doing it right.

//good God the right is stupid.
 
2012-11-18 06:15:19 PM

orbister: Had Hamas done anything to provoke it?


LOL, are you farking serious?
 
2012-11-18 06:30:10 PM
Screw it. Turn the whole area into a smoking,radioactive crater. If none of them can learn to behave themselves then they don't deserve ANY of it.
 
2012-11-18 06:56:09 PM

orbister: astroturd: Why arent the Palestinian people looking for Hamas themselves?

Because when all you've got is Hamas, everything looks like Niles?


t.qkme.me



snerk
 
Skr
2012-11-18 06:57:57 PM
What a sad situation.
 
2012-11-18 07:10:19 PM
War would end if the older generation would stop pouring their flaming hateful, spiteful religious culture in the children's heads.
Because the supposedly wise (but senile and warped) old people are incapable of seeing how they are perpetuating this silly fight over whose imaginary wizard promised what land to whom.

Those poor kids died because the old folk's brains are pure concrete, solid, unyielding masses incapable of a single original thought.

Old people are full of bullshiat. It's the younger generation's duty to reject the hatred.
 
2012-11-18 07:21:46 PM
Silly human area.
 
2012-11-18 07:46:33 PM

shotglasss: Is it wrong of me to wish for the Israelis to be utterly and completely wiped out? Kill every Jew across the entire planet so that we no longer have to hear about how they're killing innocent muslim women and children. Level Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, and every buillding within their border.

Would that end this madness?


If we toss in the muslims and evangelist christians absolutely. fark all these people and their jackoff retrograde desert death cults, fark them. fark ALL OF THEM. Get some nukes together and please kill as many of each other as possible, the rest of the species has stuff to do.
 
2012-11-18 08:25:42 PM
To all of you douchebag Hamas apologists: it's ok for them to attack Israel, but Israel is just supposed to take it?

GFY.
 
2012-11-18 08:38:31 PM

Your Average Witty Fark User: To all of you douchebag Hamas apologists: it's ok for them to attack Israel, but Israel is just supposed to take it?

GFY.


yes fark those guys
 
KIA
2012-11-18 09:07:30 PM
Y'all are seriously getting wound up about this when China (pop. 1.35 billion) is getting mad at Japan (pop. 127 million) over some islands, both China and Russia (143 million) are warning everyone to keep their hands off Iran (75 million) who is doubling down on their nuclear program and sending rockets and aid to Hamas, and Egypt (82 million) is getting in on that action too. Meanwhile India (1.2 billion) and Pakistan (181 million) are still fractious over Kashmir and Indonesia (237 million) is steadily being infiltrated by radical islamic elements.

What, do you think the good old USA (pop 314 million) can't just tell the other 6 billion people to settle down and keep their shiat in order?

Oh, right. There's that thing we have to worry about now. Paying for stuff that we want. Well, good luck with that.
 
2012-11-18 09:40:51 PM
is jew a race? i thought it was a religion.
 
2012-11-18 10:09:05 PM
Throughout the latest crisis western leaders, news readers, chat-show hosts and assorted pundits have focused on the "thousands" of rockets fired by Hamas.

White House Press Secretary Jay Carney is reported as saying: "There is no justification for the violence that Hamas and other terrorist organizations are employing against the people of Israel. We call on those responsible to stop these cowardly acts immediately in order to allow the situation to deescalate."

Cowardly acts? Who is the coward? Israel, which uses sophisticated state-of-the-art weaponry (courtesy of the US taxpayer) to relentlessly attack an unarmed, half-starved and densely packed population who have nowhere to run because their borders have been sealed 24/7 for 6 years, or the Gaza's guerrillas who fight back with anything that comes to hand including garden-shed rockets?

What if Hamas dumped all their rockets in the sea tomorrow? Would the illegal blockade be lifted? Would Gazans enjoy the same freedoms as other nations? Would their democratically elected government be allowed to get on and govern? Would they be able to open their sea port to foreign ships and rebuild and operate their airport? Would they be able to import and export and carry on trade and develop their economy and prosper like other countries?

Would they be allowed to develop and benefit from their offshore gas field? Would their fishermen be allowed to fish in unpolluted waters? Would their young people be able to come and go and take up places at foreign universities?

Would Israel clear out of Gaza's airspace permanently? Would the Israeli navy cease its piracy and stay out of Palestinian territorial waters? Would you and I be able to visit Gaza direct?

Fat chance. None of this would suit Israel. So Palestinians would be no better off.
 
2012-11-18 10:27:09 PM
I am not sure if Fox News has carried the story where Ariel Sharon's son calls for genocide, so here you go:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=1084 8 507
 
2012-11-18 10:27:50 PM

ACallForPeace: indarwinsshadow: No, It's laughable and pathetic to read how accepted racism is on fark.

Try /pol/ sometime if you think this is bad.
But yes, Fark has its share of white supremacists and racists, check any thread where police abuse minorities or Republicans are trying to defend their arguments.
Fark is a US site and one half of our two party system is a far right nationalist racist party akin to the National Front in other countries. It's just a reflection of modern America.


You have a strange grasp on basic math -- in particular fractions.
 
2012-11-18 10:47:46 PM

flynn80: Cowardly acts? Who is the coward? Israel, which uses sophisticated state-of-the-art weaponry (courtesy of the US taxpayer) to relentlessly attack an unarmed, half-starved and densely packed population who have nowhere to run because their borders have been sealed 24/7 for 6 years, or the Gaza's guerrillas who fight back with anything that comes to hand including garden-shed rockets?



Oh look, another liar. Or at least another simple slogan-chanter repeating the lies of their intellectual betters without actually knowing what they're talking about.
 
2012-11-18 11:19:22 PM

thamike: HotIgneous Intruder: Tatsuma: Massive barrage of rockets happening right now in the south, and has been happening for about half an hour right now

Where, oh where, are all these rockets coming from? I mean, who built them and then brought them to Gaza? It's a shame the Israelis are too stupid to stop this activity. Or maybe they choose not to stop them, since is looks better to appear to be the innocent party.

Hamas doesn't even represent Gazans anyway. They're foreign, funded by Shi'ite Iran, and taking part in destroying a predominately Sunni population. They are an occupying force. Gazans would probably be relieved if Hamas was eradicated, rather than thrown around their necks like a noose by Israel, who only cares about money and land in this situation.


I suggest you look into the origins of Hamas. They may be currently supplied by external state actors, but it was started by Gazans.
 
2012-11-18 11:40:55 PM

starsrift: I suggest you look into the origins of Hamas. They may be currently supplied by external state actors, but it was started by Gazans.


I know the history. I'm looking at the present.
 
2012-11-19 02:32:07 AM
holy farking shiat.

here we go again.

"green arm bands"..."rules"...the whole hypocritical irony that only tatsuma can bring. 

/my god...it's full of stars.
 
2012-11-19 02:36:10 AM

flynn80: Throughout the latest crisis western leaders, news readers, chat-show hosts and assorted pundits have focused on the "thousands" of rockets fired by Hamas.

White House Press Secretary Jay Carney is reported as saying: "There is no justification for the violence that Hamas and other terrorist organizations are employing against the people of Israel. We call on those responsible to stop these cowardly acts immediately in order to allow the situation to deescalate."

Cowardly acts? Who is the coward? Israel, which uses sophisticated state-of-the-art weaponry (courtesy of the US taxpayer) to relentlessly attack an unarmed, half-starved and densely packed population who have nowhere to run because their borders have been sealed 24/7 for 6 years, or the Gaza's guerrillas who fight back with anything that comes to hand including garden-shed rockets?

What if Hamas dumped all their rockets in the sea tomorrow? Would the illegal blockade be lifted? Would Gazans enjoy the same freedoms as other nations? Would their democratically elected government be allowed to get on and govern? Would they be able to open their sea port to foreign ships and rebuild and operate their airport? Would they be able to import and export and carry on trade and develop their economy and prosper like other countries?

Would they be allowed to develop and benefit from their offshore gas field? Would their fishermen be allowed to fish in unpolluted waters? Would their young people be able to come and go and take up places at foreign universities?

Would Israel clear out of Gaza's airspace permanently? Would the Israeli navy cease its piracy and stay out of Palestinian territorial waters? Would you and I be able to visit Gaza direct?

Fat chance. None of this would suit Israel. So Palestinians would be no better off.


this is the farking truth.
 
2012-11-19 03:14:08 AM

Mrtraveler01: shotglasss: I don't think Netanyahu dislikes Obama, but he does know that Obama will not help him out kiss his ass all the time like most Republican do and therefore cannot trust Obama.

FTFY

That's the real reason Bibi wanted Romney to win. Because Romney would just go along with whatever Bibi wanted him to (including invading Iran). Because Israel won't go to Iran without our help. Obama's win was a major setback for Bibi as he doesn't have a yes man in the US anymore.


nailed it.
 
2012-11-19 03:16:09 AM
this is all netanyahus political theater.

he didn't get "the green light".

-so he's "angry".
 
2012-11-19 10:29:23 AM

Mrtraveler01: BigBooper: didn't read most of the Derp, so I'm sure this has been posted. But what do you think we would do if the drug cartels were firing rockets from Mexico into the United States?

If Mexico was occupied territory, you'd have a point.


IF GAZA WAS OCCUPIED TERRITORY, SO WOULD YOU.

Israel unilaterally pulled out of Gaza in 2005. They have not built shiat in Gaza since then, do not run that strip of coastline towns (that's Hamas) and Gaza has borders to get legitimate (i.e. not war-making) supplies through with Egypt as well as Israel.

As far as Hamas' motivations here? Here's some lines from their Covenant:
Article 13 There is no negotiated settlement possible. Jihad is the only answer.
Article 14 The liberation of Palestine is the personal duty of every Palestinian.
Article 15 "The day that enemies usurp part of Muslim land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Muslim".It states the history of crusades into Muslim lands and says the "Palestinian problem is a religious problem".
Article 22 Makes sweeping claims about Jewish influence and power. (just like some people in these threads, imagine that)
Article 28 Conspiracy indictment against "Israel, Judaism and Jews."

Israel builds/allows to be built the settlements that piss everyone (including me) off way over on the other side of their nation in the West Bank, bordering Jordan, which is not part of Israel though as it was a part of Jordan prior to the 6 Days War in 1967, but Jordan doesn't want it back: "In 1988, Jordan ceded its claims to the West Bank to the Palestine Liberation Organization...."

/if you're going to be all anti-Israel at least bother learning a few facts
 
2012-11-19 10:56:38 AM

Seraphym: IF GAZA WAS OCCUPIED TERRITORY, SO WOULD YOU.

Israel unilaterally pulled out of Gaza in 2005. They have not built shiat in Gaza since then, do not run that strip of coastline towns (that's Hamas) and Gaza has borders to get legitimate (i.e. not war-making) supplies through with Egypt as well as Israel.


...so you're arguing the conflict is of an international nature?
 
2012-11-19 12:33:50 PM

that bosnian sniper: Seraphym: IF GAZA WAS OCCUPIED TERRITORY, SO WOULD YOU.

Israel unilaterally pulled out of Gaza in 2005. They have not built shiat in Gaza since then, do not run that strip of coastline towns (that's Hamas) and Gaza has borders to get legitimate (i.e. not war-making) supplies through with Egypt as well as Israel.

...so you're arguing the conflict is of an international nature?


Essentially, yes. But, since I know where you're probably going with that, it doesn't mean that the leadership in Gaza has to be taken seriously until they stop announcing their desire to wipe out Israel:

Hamas "will never recognize Israel," its Gaza prime minister said Saturday in a speech in Iran that is likely to complicate Palestinian efforts to form a unity government in the teeth of opposition from the Jewish state.

"They want us to recognize the Israeli occupation and cease resistance but, as the representative of the Palestinian people and in the name of all the world's freedom seekers, I am announcing from Azadi Square in Tehran that we will never recognize Israel," Ismail Haniyeh said.

"The resistance will continue until all Palestinian land, including al-Quds (Jerusalem), has been liberated and all the refugees have returned," he said.


This is why Hamas is considered a terrorist organization... that and the 2500+ rockets that have been fired at Israel from Gaza since the last time Israel tried talking to them seriously.

But you either knew this already or choose to ignore it so you can justify despising Israel some more ('cause I've been watching your posts, it's pretty obvious). How Israel acts in the West Bank is one story - how they respond to a government that refuses their right to exist and daily tries to kill as many Israeli citizens as luck will allow is something else.
 
2012-11-19 02:06:01 PM

thamike: quietwalker: Evaluate both sides with identical criteria, and there is no way in which Hamas is not the primary aggressor, in which the burden of guilt and responsibility does not lie primarily with them. Sadly, this also means they are the side which has the power to produce peace. In any real way, what happens next is up to them. The fact that this war is continuing is because they want it to.

[rlv.zcache.com image 400x400]

Is not peace. And neither fighting side is interested in peace. One side wants proprietary rights, and the other wants equality, statehood, and at least regional credibility. I don't even need to get into religion to see that these two interests, pitched against one another, can never lead to peace. Only a madman or a con man would be able to say so with a straight face.


Except that's not really what I said, and that's not really what the sides want.

One side has declared openly that it wants to avoid having 1/5'th of its citizens living under fear of daily attack. The other side has declared openly that it wants the dissolution of the zionist state via the mechanism of killing every israeli citizen.

One side has played the land-for-peace game for decades, attempting to literally buy peace for their people, while the other side has used those gains to advance their weaponry emplacements, allowing better attack ranges.

If I were to guess, I'd say that both sides really wish that everyone on the other side was wiped out, and one of those sides is really committed to that path, while the other - who appears capable of it - chooses not to, despite the additional hardships and danger that results.

Could you pick out which side was which? If you could, you can understand enough to know that between these two, based only on historical precedent and spoken declarations, one side desires peace and the other abhors it. One side will apparently embrace it if it is offered - even if the speaker has proven untrustworthy - and has worked for peace in the past, not just paid it lip service.

Disambiguation aside, you can say a lot of things about Hamas, but you'd be stretching the imagination to include 'working for peace' in there. If you can't have peace until both groups actually want it, then this situation is waiting on the palestinians to get there. Just like it has been for the last couple of decades.
 
2012-11-19 02:42:31 PM

that bosnian sniper: quietwalker: Evaluate both sides with identical criteria, and there is no way in which Hamas is not the primary aggressor, in which the burden of guilt and responsibility does not lie primarily with them.

You understand the whole idea that in an asymmetric conflict, "both sides" cannot and should not be judged by identical criteria, right?


Asymmetric warfare as a concept says little about how you judge it. Only that it refers to two groups with dissimilar capabilities.

I stand by the idea that if you judge the two differently, you are a hypocrite, and potentially a racist to boot. Pick a conflict and side you favor, and if you say one side is justified to commit atrocities while the other is not, well, you're just wrong. Race is easy, so lets use some examples of this type of thinking:
- It's okay to take land from them, they're ignorant indians
- Black people don't deserve the same privileges as whites because they're inferior people
- Jews are mentally inferior, liars, and cowards, so we're putting them in camps for their own good.

Case in point, Tatsuma's own statistics: over 600 rocket strikes have killed three Israelis, two indirectly, and a hundred of those didn't even make it to Israeli territory. Of the rest, Israeli missile defense took most of those out with the few that made it through being ineffectual.

"Your honor, my client only tried to kill the complainant's family 600 times, and because his technology was so poor, he only succeeded 3 times. In fact, because of decades of these attacks, the complainant has built bunkers and deployed technology that makes it even harder - so you can see, he was perfectly justified."

You're telling me from that, Israel is not only justified in employing massive retaliation (over a thousand air strikes so far targeting critical infrastructure with the promise of a follow-up ground invasion and occupation) but has an ethical mandate to do so?

Except that they're not targeting critical infrastructure. They're targeting critical munitions, military leaders, military communications, etc. They've been very proud of their ability to hit rocket emplacements in residential neighborhoods or next to mosques or playgrounds, with very little collateral damage. At the same time, they're rolling in aid trucks, removing the wounded, actively repairing the electrical grid while being shot at, and so on.

They're trying to destroy the ability for these people to attempt to kill israelis, after repeated attempts to kill israelis.

That's a fundamentally out-of-whack perspective, especially when the stated means and goals of asymmetric warfare, i.e. terrorism, is to provoke a massive retaliation that saps economic resources, popular support, and credibility in the international community while simultaneously justifying the 'terrorists' own means and goals and increasing popular support.

The goal of terrorism isn't some weird tom-clancy para-social-psychology. It's to get what you want through fear. You don't think that some terrorist leader was rubbing his hands together and cackling, saying "Ha, and after this plan goes through, they'll make their OWN PEOPLE take off their shoes at the airport! HAHAHAHAHAHAA!"

There's spinning for the media, sure, but that's not the goal, and again, that's not how the term 'asymmetrical warefare' is used. Seriously. Check wikipedia or something.

In short, Israel is playing right into Hamas' hands. Israel's own massive retaliation doctrine justifies Hamas and its actions to Palestinians living in Gaza and perpetuates the cycle of conflict. This is particularly poignant in light of the fact Israel's own anti-missile defenses have been demonstrated in this very conflict to trivialize Hamas' most-destructive form of attack. Without inquiring or presuming of the ideology and goals of Netanyahu, Likud, or the Israeli right wing, why would you support Israel being willfully and intentionally manipulated by Hamas so?

That's silly, true, and unrelated, respectively.

If I attempt to kill someone and fail, should it be seen as less serious simply because that person defended themselves?
If I attempt to kill unarmed civilians and succeed, should it be seen as justified because their country could/can/will easily kill me in response?

I do not think I'll ever be able to relate to your world view. A group that eschews peace, desires genocide, kidnaps, suicide bombs, and attacks civilians simply plays on a less morally and ethically defensible platform as a group of people who have attempted peace, who attack to destroy weapons and military leaders, who avoid civilian causalities.

There is no level of sophistry that can confuse that, that can make things like theft of property equal to death of uninvolved civilians.
 
2012-11-19 04:23:59 PM

quietwalker: Asymmetric warfare as a concept says little about how you judge it [...] There is no level of sophistry that can confuse that, that can make things like theft of property equal to death of uninvolved civilians.


First, I'd strongly suggest you do some in-depth reading about asymmetric warfare, terror, and its goals and means. In short, yes, there is a very strong political speech aspect to terror, symbolic and literal, and strategic logic in play behind the execution of asymmetric warfare and terror. To what you refer as "some weird tom-clancy para-social-psychology" very much is the point, and that is the consensus view among anyone who is remotely credible on the topic of terror, its goals and means; no, right wing pundits and politicians are not credible and authoritative sources in this regard. Dying to Win: the Strategic Logic of Suicide Terror by Robert A. Pape, in which the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is heavily discussed, and Al Qaeda: Casting a Shadow of Terror by Jason Burke would be good starters.

Second, no, I have never stated Hamas' actions are morally or ethically justified. Strategically, most definitely, but not morally or ethically. If you can't tell the difference between strategy and morality, that's your problem.

And, in regards to what Israelis are targeting, I wasn't aware that TV stations, journalists, and municipal buildings were military targets. As far as humanitarian aid and relief, I'll need to see a third-party, credible citation, please. Where, exactly, is the sense of proportionality and military necessity here, both of which are critical foundations to waging a just war? If you want to make an argument Israeli military actions are justifiable here -- strategically, ethically, or morally -- "they're shooting rockets at us!" is wholly insufficient, especially considering the sheer scale of Israeli action.

Seraphym: Essentially, yes.


So, since the conflict is of international character, do you cede the Hague and Geneva Conventions apply?
 
2012-11-19 05:13:29 PM

that bosnian sniper: I wasn't aware that TV stations, journalists, and municipal buildings were military targets


When they are used as rocket launching sites and hiding area for terrorists, they sure are.
 
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