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(CNN)   Shiat is getting even more serious   (cnn.com) divider line 377
    More: Followup, Operation Cast Lead, Gaza, Benjamin Netanyahu, Israelis, Prime Minister of Turkey, Palestinian militants, Egyptian President, Israeli Army  
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23084 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Nov 2012 at 8:01 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-18 08:58:10 AM

Mrtraveler01: Got a citation?

I thought East Jerusalem was going to be part of Palestinian territory.


Basically an exchange of neighborhoods, and Pisgat Ze'ev and a few others were agreed to stay in Israel. Even most of the Arab neighborhoods would rather stay in Israel. Gotta go for a while, but check around on google its fairly easy to find, otherwise when I come back
 
2012-11-18 08:58:12 AM

Tatsuma: INeedAName: That was a 30 second Google search.

None of these things translate as new settlements.

The buildings being built are within the municipal boundaries of the already existing settlements, and those settlements are not expending, and neither are new ones being created.


You are so full of shiat, it's coming out of your ears.

Israel to Continue Settlement Building
 
2012-11-18 08:58:14 AM
I don't care about Israel as a state or what it wants to do in conflict but can we all just admit that Jewish people tend to be a little annoying?
 
2012-11-18 08:58:55 AM

Tatsuma: sno man: FFS... Then stop firing missles into Gaza.

Before we started the current campaign four days ago, they had fired more than 800 missiles in Israel in 2012. Last year, 627.

What do you expect us to do?


Stop with the apartheid?
 
2012-11-18 08:59:00 AM

BigBooper: ...Oh, and FYI, the current leaders of Hamas will accept nothing less than the destruction of Israel. How do you negotiate peace with someone who wants, and will accept nothing less, than your death?


How dare they be mad at people who have rounded them up and forced them into ghettos?
 
2012-11-18 08:59:28 AM

ApeShaft: Hey, and this is just like warm white snow....

[i.imgur.com image 398x294]


It's like snowflakes essentially.
i.huffpost.com
 
2012-11-18 08:59:31 AM

INeedAName: You are so full of shiat, it's coming out of your ears.

Israel to Continue Settlement Building


The Iranian government as a source, the same media who reprinted an onion article saying that Americans would rather have Ahmadinejad than Obama as President.

yeah leaving
 
2012-11-18 09:00:33 AM

ginandbacon: Tats, 13 children are dead. A pregnant woman was killed.


Hamas doesn't follow the Geneva convention. Civilians get killed when used as shields.

Israel might be full of assholes, but they play by the rules.
 
2012-11-18 09:00:40 AM

sno man: 3 Isrealies v. 15 Palestinian citizens last I heard

Sounds balanced and fair to me.


You're right, the israelis should step out of the bomb shelters, turn off the alarm systems and deactivate the Iron Dome systems used to block rocket attacks, to even the ratio.
 
2012-11-18 09:00:52 AM

Old Man Winter: Is it okay to want to see Israel wiped off the map, and not give a shiat about religion? Or do I have to pick a side? (Difficulty-Native American and Israel is more douch-y than small-pox blankets).


Everyone picks a side. I'll drink a toast to the winner.
 
2012-11-18 09:01:08 AM

Tatsuma: This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.


"From the least to the greatest, all are greedy for gain; prophets and priests alike, all practice deceit. They dress the wound of my people as though it were not serious. 'Peace, peace,' they say, when there is no peace. Are they ashamed of their loathsome conduct? No, they have no shame at all;
they do not even know how to blush."
 
2012-11-18 09:01:23 AM
Nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure

/Failing to go to war with the Soviets was the biggest mistake humanity ever made
 
2012-11-18 09:01:39 AM
In the words of Rodney King:

"Can't we all just get along?"
 
2012-11-18 09:01:40 AM

Tatsuma: INeedAName: You are so full of shiat, it's coming out of your ears.

Israel to Continue Settlement Building

The Iranian government as a source, the same media who reprinted an onion article saying that Americans would rather have Ahmadinejad than Obama as President.

yeah leaving


So you're saying we shouldn't listen to a source of information with ties to one nationality for fear they might be slanting things to come across in their favor? Tell me more...
 
2012-11-18 09:02:13 AM

doglover: ginandbacon: Tats, 13 children are dead. A pregnant woman was killed.

Hamas doesn't follow the Geneva convention. Civilians get killed when used as shields.

Israel might be full of assholes, but they play by the rules.


Let's white phosphorous EVERYBODY.
 
2012-11-18 09:03:23 AM

ShonenBat: Is this even news? When isn't the situation utter mayhem in the Gaza Strip?


This too.
 
2012-11-18 09:03:27 AM

doglover: ginandbacon: Tats, 13 children are dead. A pregnant woman was killed.

Hamas doesn't follow the Geneva convention. Civilians get killed when used as shields.

Israel might be full of assholes, but they play by the rules.


And when you say "Play by the rules" that means discard the rules and then claim that the other side did it first?

Just wondering, because anyone who actually believes what you just typed is fully delusional.
 
2012-11-18 09:04:20 AM

Dadoody: This land is mine

God gave this land to me

This brave and ancient land to me
And when the morning sun
Reveals her hills and plains
Then I see a land
where children can run free.

So take my hand
And walk this land with me
And walk this lovely land with me
Tho' I am just a man

When you are by my side

With the help of God
I know I can be strong.

So take my hand
And walk this land with me

And walk this golden land with me.
Tho' I am just a man

When you are by my side

With the help of God
I know I can be strong.

To make this land our home

If I must fight

I'll fight to make this land our own.
Until I die this land is mine!


[youthvoices.net image 850x737]


It's better with this video.
 
2012-11-18 09:04:50 AM

TwistedFark: Israel is an apartheid state. It's fundementally unjust. Their actions should surprise no one.


Funny thing about that. I was watching something on TV the other night and some refugees from Sudan were talking about how they were treated in Egypt vs. how they were treated in Israel. They seemed a little upset that their fellow Muslims in Egypt turned water cannons on them while Israel treated them like human beings.
 
2012-11-18 09:05:00 AM
Fifty children aged four to six years old and the driver of the school bus they were on were killed when their vehicle was hit by a train in central Egypt on Saturday, officials said.

Your arguments about unacceptable levels of civilian casualties caused by the IDF are invalid. School bus drivers are the real terrorists. Or is it trains?
 
2012-11-18 09:05:08 AM
Yes, but is Benghazi a scandal yet?
 
2012-11-18 09:08:45 AM

INeedAName: Tatsuma: derp

You are so full of shiat, it's coming out of your ears.


i.imgur.com
 
2012-11-18 09:09:01 AM

Tatsuma: This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.


Doesn't this take away one of the key elements of war: that there will be suffering as a result of war. Civilized men, by their very nature, do not want to inflict harm on others. The common thread which should bind us all is our value of life: we are repulsed by the ending of it. This is why war should be used only as a last resort as a resolution to conflict. It must be repulsive. Everyone will forced to spill blood for the policies of a few- so it should always be in our interest to find an alternative.

The face of warfare has changed. We have come to believe that it will be precise as surgery- that only evil would be excised while the rest of us, as long as we didn't get painted by a predator's laser guidance system, we're free to go about our lives as usual. We also recognize that not all surgery is perfect, and have come to expect that the surgeon will repair the damage along the way as well.

This is not surgery. The surgery was performed along the way when various players were assassinated as a measure to avoid war.

The surgery has failed, the body has chosen to not accept your services.

You are there now. At war.

You do what you have to do, in an expediant manner, regardless of the cost.

That is what war is. That is why it is to avoided at all costs.

How one is to treat the casualties, compensate the victims, and help restore social order will will rest on the shoulders of the victor.
 
2012-11-18 09:11:12 AM

Tatsuma: This morning, Israel sent 117 trucks, hundreds of tons of humanitarian help, in order to alleviate the suffering of civilians suffering in Gaza.

Just because we want to stop Hamas from hurting our civilians doesn't mean we want to hurt theirs.


"Bomb 'em and feed 'em, bomb 'em and feed 'em."
 
2012-11-18 09:11:16 AM
I was reading this news article and comments while listening to a Karaite Jewish lecture called The Hebrew Yeshua vs. the Greek Jesus by Nehemia Gordon. I'm actually a lapsed Catholic with a tiny Jewish ancestry.
 
2012-11-18 09:11:19 AM

Happy Hours: TwistedFark: Israel is an apartheid state. It's fundementally unjust. Their actions should surprise no one.

Funny thing about that. I was watching something on TV the other night and some refugees from Sudan were talking about how they were treated in Egypt vs. how they were treated in Israel. They seemed a little upset that their fellow Muslims in Egypt turned water cannons on them while Israel treated them like human beings.

And yet on the other hand there's stuff like this:

I'M a Palestinian who was born in the Israeli town of Lod, and thus I am an Israeli citizen. My wife is not; she is a Palestinian from Nablus in the Israeli-occupied West Bank. Despite our towns being just 30 miles apart, we met almost 6,000 miles away in Massachusetts, where we attended neighboring colleges.

A series of walls, checkpoints, settlements and soldiers fill the 30-mile gap between our hometowns, making it more likely for us to have met on the other side of the planet than in our own backyard.

Never is this reality more profound than on our trips home from our current residence outside Washington.

Tel Aviv's Ben-Gurion International Airport is on the outskirts of Lod (Lydda in Arabic), but because my wife has a Palestinian ID, she cannot fly there; she is relegated to flying to Amman, Jordan. If we plan a trip together - an enjoyable task for most couples - we must prepare for a logistical nightmare that reminds us of our profound inequality before the law at every turn.

Even if we fly together to Amman, we are forced to take different bridges, two hours apart, and endure often humiliating waiting and questioning just to cross into Israel and the West Bank. The laws conspire to separate us.

If we lived in the region, I would have to forgo my residency, since Israeli law prevents my wife from living with me in Israel. This is to prevent what Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu once referred to as "demographic spillover." Additional Palestinian babies in Israel are considered "demographic threats" by a state constantly battling to keep a Jewish majority. (Of course, Israelis who marry Americans or any non-Palestinian foreigners are not subjected to this treatment.)


Link
 
2012-11-18 09:11:56 AM
Told ya they were going to occupy Gaza.

i575.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-18 09:12:32 AM
clowncar on fire:
How one is to treat the casualties, compensate the victims, and help restore social order will will rest on the shoulders of the victor.

The losers of this one ain't getting compensated.
 
2012-11-18 09:16:58 AM

Tatsuma: What do you expect us to do?


I love how you say "us" like you are a member of the Israeli government or an Israeli soldier. IIRC you are in Israel; this is a trend I've also noticed in protests in the US. (If by some slim chance you are actually fighting, then disregard this post. But over my time reading Fark, I think it's safe to assume you're not.)

The main reason I disregard this conflict (and I'm an atheist Palestinian-American, BTW, with no intention of ever moving to the Middle East) is that both sides that are actually fighting have farked themselves and each other over. Any rational observer can see that Israeli incursions into Palestine are generally neatly timed around Israeli election time. In many countries, a state of war is when the "stay the course" mentality kicks in (you don't want to change leaders when we're at war, right?) and citizens largely vote to keep the same people in power. Good for Likud (the conservative Israeli party), with its tenuous grasp on the Knesset. At the same time, Hamas does not care about launching mortars and rockets from near civilian houses/schools/etc because when Israel inevitably strikes the "launch point", Hamas has packed up and moved away and some unwitting civilians get their shiat wrecked. That allows Hamas to basically trick its supporters into believing Israel always wants to harm civilians.

Both sides are using human lives for political gain. The Israelis use soldiers and settlers and Hamas uses civilians. Not to mention that the shiat that leads up to this conflict on both sides start to cancel each other out: illegal settlement creation/expansion, terrorists smuggling weapons, restricting Palestinian travel, suicide bombing... all part of the constant digging deeper of the hole that is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

And yet outside supporters of one side or the other use "us" to describe their side like it is some sort of baseball game, where the fans say "we're gonna win" when they really mean the baseball team they support is going to win. If you're not Israeli government/military or Hamas, this conflict is above you. You are pawns to be influenced or crapped upon, depending on what the situation calls for. And though you may or may not still have me ignored for arguing with you in the past, maybe some other people will read and learn from this.
 
2012-11-18 09:17:30 AM

LazarusLong42: Yes, but is Benghazi a scandal yet?


This is Obama's New Coke.
 
2012-11-18 09:19:13 AM
Didn't "Nutty Yahoo" get the message that Romney lost the election?
 
2012-11-18 09:19:54 AM
The long term policies of Israel are what lead to the repeating of this event. Israel behaves better in the battles, no doubt there, but always sink right down to the lowest level when it comes to finding an overall.

They are not moving towards either a one or two state solution. Until they do I won't be shedding any more tears (or less) for them than the Palestinians.
 
2012-11-18 09:19:57 AM

rollersnake: How about this: everybody puts their weapons down, go back to their own home wherever/whatever that may be, and just let it all go.

It's land. Everyone's land belonged to someone else at some point in history. Is it worth killing and dying for?

I'm so worn down by all the religious strife, all the expansion strife, all the hate, that my empathy gauge is dangerously close to "E."


The land is just a carrot on a stick for those who are too hungry to bother being fired up about abstractions like political philosophy and ideology.
 
2012-11-18 09:22:34 AM

MustTryHarder: clowncar on fire:
How one is to treat the casualties, compensate the victims, and help restore social order will will rest on the shoulders of the victor.

The losers of this one ain't getting compensated.


They appear to be getting compensation along the way though.
You feed the vanquished, not the soldier.
 
2012-11-18 09:23:22 AM

Mrtraveler01: Happy Hours: TwistedFark: Israel is an apartheid state. It's fundementally unjust. Their actions should surprise no one.

Funny thing about that. I was watching something on TV the other night and some refugees from Sudan were talking about how they were treated in Egypt vs. how they were treated in Israel. They seemed a little upset that their fellow Muslims in Egypt turned water cannons on them while Israel treated them like human beings.

And yet on the other hand there's stuff like this:

I'M a Palestinian who was born in the Israeli town of Lod, and thus I am an Israeli citizen. My wife is not; she is a Palestinian from Nablus in the Israeli-occupied West Bank. Despite our towns being just 30 miles apart, we met almost 6,000 miles away in Massachusetts, where we attended neighboring colleges.

A series of walls, checkpoints, settlements and soldiers fill the 30-mile gap between our hometowns, making it more likely for us to have met on the other side of the planet than in our own backyard.

Never is this reality more profound than on our trips home from our current residence outside Washington.

Tel Aviv's Ben-Gurion International Airport is on the outskirts of Lod (Lydda in Arabic), but because my wife has a Palestinian ID, she cannot fly there; she is relegated to flying to Amman, Jordan. If we plan a trip together - an enjoyable task for most couples - we must prepare for a logistical nightmare that reminds us of our profound inequality before the law at every turn.

Even if we fly together to Amman, we are forced to take different bridges, two hours apart, and endure often humiliating waiting and questioning just to cross into Israel and the West Bank. The laws conspire to separate us.

If we lived in the region, I would have to forgo my residency, since Israeli law prevents my wife from living with me in Israel. This is to prevent what Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu once referred to as "demographic spillover." Additional Palestinian babies in Israel a ...



You do realize that this is how most of the world works. The U.S. was/is very unique is giving citizenship by right of being born in a country.

Apart from France, jus sanguinis is still the most common means of passing on citizenship in many continental European countries.

Germany has only given the right of jus soli in 2000, and that is to people who's parents have been living legally in Germany for 8 years.
 
2012-11-18 09:24:45 AM

Smackledorfer: They are not moving towards either a one or two state solution.


How many states do they want then? There are only 2 parties involved in the conflict. ಠ_ಠ
 
2012-11-18 09:26:49 AM

ShonenBat: Is this even news? When isn't the situation utter mayhem in the Gaza Strip?



I hate this map. When the tickets run out I'm voting for a map change
 
2012-11-18 09:27:15 AM
Mrtraveler01

BigBooper: didn't read most of the Derp, so I'm sure this has been posted. But what do you think we would do if the drug cartels were firing rockets from Mexico into the United States?

If Mexico was occupied territory, you'd have a point.


You are correct, a more accurate analogy would be if USA fired rockets into Mexico, would you not expect Mexico to defend itself from our attacks. Ever been to the Rio Grande Valley, then you know what I'm talking about.
 
2012-11-18 09:27:31 AM

Sock Ruh Tease: Tatsuma: What do you expect us to do?

.


Okay, so we finally have an opposing view to Tatsuma who might have a clue as to what's going on.

Maybe....

I ask you then, how should this violence end? Or rather how can this violence end?

Just idealistically what do you see as the best possible outcome for the area? could Gaza join Israel and live together in peace as part of that nation? Should Gaza be its own country separate from Israel?

Because ever since I can remember there has been war in the Middle East and I'm getting a little sick of it.
 
2012-11-18 09:28:37 AM

TV's Vinnie: Didn't "Nutty Yahoo" get the message that Romney lost the election?


He did. That's part of the problem.
Neoconservative psychodrama, how does it work?
 
2012-11-18 09:30:10 AM
Lotta both sides are bad talk today, which inevitably turns to anti-Israel talk as they have their justice-blind champions.

Just thought I'd note that the majority of the missiles that Hamas uses are used with mobile launchers, not emplacements. (Wikipedia Qassam rocket to see pics of the launcher system, loaded).

Hamas knows exactly what they're doing when they fire a rocket from the vicinity of a news station, or a UN refugee camp (as on Friday, during the Egyptian PM visit).
And Israel knows exactly what they're doing when they try to hit the rocketeers. Their leaflets of "stay away from Hamas infrastructure" are somewhat a red herring; Hamas can bring the "infrastructure" to the civilians, and they can just hope that the IDF notes the firing position... and sends a drone or air strike in, later, when the Hamas operatives are far away.

That's why the ratio of strikes to dead Hamas is so appallingly low - simple IDF incompetence. Anyway, back to it...
 
2012-11-18 09:31:50 AM

starsrift: Lotta both sides are bad talk today, which inevitably turns to anti-Israel talk as they have their justice-blind champions.


So if I don't blindly support Israel 100%, does that make me Anti-Israel?
 
2012-11-18 09:33:07 AM

Mrtraveler01: starsrift: Lotta both sides are bad talk today, which inevitably turns to anti-Israel talk as they have their justice-blind champions.

So if I don't blindly support Israel 100%, does that make me Anti-Israel?


According to some... not me.
 
2012-11-18 09:34:10 AM
I watched a film shot in 2003 about the Israeli/Palestinian conflicts (Death in Gaza). It is amazing, in a terrifying sort of way, the way the kids are raised. Hell, kids as young as 3 are well aware of who their enemies are and what should happen to those enemies.

Now, I'm wondering if any of the kids shown in the 2003 film have survived to adulthood (or near adulthood) and what they're doing now.
 
2012-11-18 09:36:32 AM

starsrift: Mrtraveler01: starsrift: Lotta both sides are bad talk today, which inevitably turns to anti-Israel talk as they have their justice-blind champions.

So if I don't blindly support Israel 100%, does that make me Anti-Israel?

According to some... not me.


I'm not sure who to be rooting here for either. Then again, I'm not really much of a sports fan, so par for the course I guess.
 
2012-11-18 09:38:22 AM
Israel is turning into the same circular-thinking idiotic bullshiat as the rest of the middle east

God gives me the right to do whatever I want, therefore fark you! NO! God gave ME the right, not you, fark you! NO! Die! NO! Die! NO, Die more! NO, Die more more!

eventually somebody forces a cease fire (either because of an outside party, or because both sides' strategies are blowing up in their faces), which ironically just gives both sides more ammo (literally and figuratively) for when the other side WILL keep shooting, because you can say with 100% certainty that neither side is trustworthy because they believe a higher power (God) gave them the right to BE a God and will their collective punishment, and they easily morally justify it because neither side sees the other side as human beings but as a virus or disease or infestation

either way that whole area - from Sinai to Turkey - has gone insane, and shouldn't be trusted
 
2012-11-18 09:38:34 AM

clowncar on fire: starsrift: Mrtraveler01: starsrift: Lotta both sides are bad talk today, which inevitably turns to anti-Israel talk as they have their justice-blind champions.

So if I don't blindly support Israel 100%, does that make me Anti-Israel?

According to some... not me.

I'm not sure who to be rooting here for either. Then again, I'm not really much of a sports fan, so par for the course I guess.


Me, I'm rooting for the civilians. On both sides.
 
2012-11-18 09:41:18 AM
Why doesn't Israel just park about a thousand drones over Gaza to take out the rocket sites before they're launched instead of this "tit for tat"?
 
2012-11-18 09:41:45 AM

Buffalo77: BigBooper: didn't read most of the Derp, so I'm sure this has been posted. But what do you think we would do if the drug cartels were firing rockets from Mexico into the United States?


I can answer this.
The US and A! would put all of Mexico under continuous surveillance of numerous flavors and varieties and put special forces teams on the ground. These teams would then start destroying and interdicting missiles and missile shipments, killing the missile crews and destroying the launch infrastructure and facilities.
The US and A! government would lean down hard on whatever country was providing the missiles, possibly even stealth bombing the missile production facilities. Ships at sea would be stopped and searched for missiles and impounded if necessary. Once the threat was neutralized, the surveillance and interdiction would continue indefinitely until the Mexican government started to play along and provide security with the same effect.
And it wouldn't take hundreds of missiles to provoke this response, either.
 
2012-11-18 09:44:07 AM

Smackledorfer: The long term policies of Israel Hamas are what lead to the repeating of this event. Israel behaves better in the battles, no doubt there, but always sink right down to the lowest level when it comes to finding an overall.

They are not moving towards either a one or two state solution. Until they do I won't be shedding any more tears (or less) for them than the Palestinians.


Had to update that for reality.
 
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