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(SFGate)   "A lot of times, people roll their eyes and say, 'Only in San Francisco', and then 10 years later, they're doing the same thing"   (blog.sfgate.com) divider line 136
    More: Cool, Department of Public Health, gender reassignment, hysterectomy, hepatitis  
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6083 clicks; posted to Geek » on 18 Nov 2012 at 10:49 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-18 07:55:43 PM

sage37: My fat ass and giant ears give me body dysmorphia, so I am suicidal and a drug abuser. I'm just convinced in my heart that I truly am handsome. Please pay for my surgery. It's the only way I can feel comfortable as a human.


If you jump through the equivalent hoops and mandatory years of psychiatric counseling a transgender patient has to go through before their surgery becomes medically approved, then I'll be in-favor of your surgery being covered as well.

Sounds like you're assuming there's no standard of proof beyond walking into a doctor's office and proclaiming, "I'm transgendered. Fix me." That may be the case if the surgery's done in one of the cash clinics in Thailand, but in the US and Canada at least, it's a multi-year process and surgery's almost the last step.

/Read up after making my first transgendered friend.
//If your dysmorphia had you needing a healthy arm or leg removed, well that's the line where I get uncomfortable. So do most doctors, I hear.
 
2012-11-18 08:13:42 PM
I can always rely on FARK comments to remind me why I should never trust a non transgender person in my life.

Even the gay community is unsupportive of transpeople unless we act and dress like drag queens or bull dykes.

My advice to fellow trans people? Live stealth, tell only the people you know you can trust and make sure to discuss it with your partner before you get too serious.

I wear it on my sleeve for the most part. And I must pass pretty well since I've been getting flirted up and hit on when I'm out a lot lately~
 
2012-11-18 08:29:42 PM

Frank N Stein: [i.imgur.com image 500x500]

[24.media.tumblr.com image 400x400]

[25.media.tumblr.com image 400x400]


WTF is this? *looks it up*

OK, this site can't be real. What does this even mean?

img850.imageshack.us
 
2012-11-18 09:06:43 PM

Theaetetus: machoprogrammer: titwrench: Why not? There are people that have a psychological need to change their appearance and suffer in their own skin.

There are countless men out there who feel they aren't muscular enough. Should the government pay for their steroids, too?

There are countless women out there who feel they don't have big enough boobs/ass. Should the government foot that bill, too?

Are those countless men and women depressed to the point of being suicidal? Then, yes, the government should. What is it about "medically necessary procedure" you don't understand?


I am as liberal as anyone, but even I think this is retarded.

What about the girl that gets bullied for her big nose, to the point where she is suicidal? Should she get a free nose job?

How about instead of expensive, often times ineffective at alleviating the problem, surgery, we instead find out what is causing it? As a link above says, transsexuals are often more suicidal after the surgery.
 
2012-11-18 09:23:42 PM

machoprogrammer: Theaetetus: machoprogrammer: titwrench: Why not? There are people that have a psychological need to change their appearance and suffer in their own skin.

There are countless men out there who feel they aren't muscular enough. Should the government pay for their steroids, too?

There are countless women out there who feel they don't have big enough boobs/ass. Should the government foot that bill, too?

Are those countless men and women depressed to the point of being suicidal? Then, yes, the government should. What is it about "medically necessary procedure" you don't understand?

I am as liberal as anyone, but even I think this is retarded.

What about the girl that gets bullied for her big nose, to the point where she is suicidal? Should she get a free nose job?

How about instead of expensive, often times ineffective at alleviating the problem, surgery, we instead find out what is causing it? As a link above says, transsexuals are often more suicidal after the surgery.


The above link says that post-op transsexuals are more likely to be suicidal than non-trans people. Not more likely to be suicidal than pre-op. Basically, it means nothing.

If medical experts decide that big nose-ism is a medical condition, then we will deal with that. Until then, this is about the city of San Francisco deciding to pay for medically approved treatment for a medical condition, for its citizens.
 
2012-11-18 09:54:31 PM

machoprogrammer: Theaetetus: machoprogrammer: titwrench: Why not? There are people that have a psychological need to change their appearance and suffer in their own skin.

There are countless men out there who feel they aren't muscular enough. Should the government pay for their steroids, too?

There are countless women out there who feel they don't have big enough boobs/ass. Should the government foot that bill, too?

Are those countless men and women depressed to the point of being suicidal? Then, yes, the government should. What is it about "medically necessary procedure" you don't understand?

I am as liberal as anyone, but even I think this is retarded.

What about the girl that gets bullied for her big nose, to the point where she is suicidal? Should she get a free nose job?

How about instead of expensive, often times ineffective at alleviating the problem, surgery, we instead find out what is causing it? As a link above says, transsexuals are often more suicidal after the surgery.


Maybe if people like you would stop harassing, belittling, insulting, and attacking them for not conforming to your personal views, they wouldn't have so many problems.
 
2012-11-18 10:33:00 PM

E_Henry_Thripshaws_Disease: But all the sh*t about SF politics and crazy people is true, that's why the EHTD family moved down the peninsula 15 years ago, to get some sun and away from the craziness that is SF


You must miss the human feces & urine, unless you still work in the City.

/ah, coming up out of the Muni/BART station at the Embarcadero, which is Spanish for "stinks like pee"... or it should be, in any case
 
2012-11-18 11:16:31 PM
"A lot of times, people roll their eyes and say, 'Only in San Francisco', and then 10 years later, they're doing the same thing"

That's entirely correct. And it's a big reason why the US is going down the tubes. Just because the rest of the country follows a lot of California/San Francisco ideas, don't mean any of those ideas area good.
 
2012-11-18 11:40:32 PM

Lsherm: WTF is this? *looks it up*

OK, this site can't be real. What does this even mean?

[img850.imageshack.us image 400x400]


A female-to-male transsexual who is also gay--he likes guys and considers himself to be a guy--is complaining about gay guys who assume just because he has a vagina that he's a bottom.
 
2012-11-18 11:47:59 PM
What does it mean to feel like a female? Honestly I don't know. What does it feel to be a man? I don't know that either. All I know is I was brought up to accept the set of genitalia that I was born with.

I am more the opposite sex then the one that I am. But I am married to the opposite sex then I am. I learned to accept me for me and that I am what I am. I have no desire to cut anything off. I can be who I am and dress how I see fit.

Cuttin it off or adding it on doesn't change whats upstairs. If you can't accept how you were born that's where the work is. I feel sorry for anyone that can't accept themselves.
 
2012-11-18 11:50:21 PM
I guess people in this thread just believe that I should kill myself. I think about it all the time, anyway. And after all, it's natural selection.

I don't want to hurt or annoy anyone. I just want to not hate myself anymore. I want to get out of bed on weekends, rather than lie here to cry and sleep all day. I want to stop wishing for my own death.

/hugs 0z79
 
2012-11-18 11:52:58 PM

Myria: Lsherm: WTF is this? *looks it up*

OK, this site can't be real. What does this even mean?

[img850.imageshack.us image 400x400]

A female-to-male transsexual who is also gay--he likes guys and considers himself to be a guy--is complaining about gay guys who assume just because he has a vagina that he's a bottom.


Even with that explanation, it still barely makes sense. He wants vaginal sex but only on top? Otherwise, what the hell is he talking about?
 
2012-11-18 11:53:45 PM
All I can say is that... You have the time and the money for this?

Here's a wild idea. Instead of covering peoples elective procedures you could spend that money on HIV/AIDS research or cancer or heart disease.

I'm also totally sure that your city infrastructure and schools could use it more.
 
2012-11-18 11:56:07 PM

Myria: I guess people in this thread just believe that I should kill myself. I think about it all the time, anyway. And after all, it's natural selection.

I don't want to hurt or annoy anyone. I just want to not hate myself anymore. I want to get out of bed on weekends, rather than lie here to cry and sleep all day. I want to stop wishing for my own death.

/hugs 0z79


No hon, you take care of yourself, you deserve happiness, find a good therapist to work with and start dealing with what you've been dealt. Are you on hormones yet? It make a world of difference from what I've heard ; )
 
2012-11-18 11:58:31 PM

Lsherm: Even with that explanation, it still barely makes sense. He wants vaginal sex but only on top? Otherwise, what the hell is he talking about?


I think he means that he wants to use a strap-on to be the dominant top in a gay male relationship.
 
2012-11-18 11:59:26 PM

randomjsa: All I can say is that... You have the time and the money for this?

Here's a wild idea. Instead of covering peoples elective procedures you could spend that money on HIV/AIDS research or cancer or heart disease.

I'm also totally sure that your city infrastructure and schools could use it more.


So can can we stop building bombs and missiles since there are other pressing problem. Dumb ass troll society can handle lots of things all at once.
 
2012-11-19 12:03:07 AM

tinfoil-hat maggie: No hon, you take care of yourself, you deserve happiness, find a good therapist to work with and start dealing with what you've been dealt. Are you on hormones yet? It make a world of difference from what I've heard ; )


I've been seeing a shrink and therapist for years now, and have been on hormones for four and a half years. Despite all that, I still look like a guy.

It's not worth even trying anymore. My mind is destroyed at this point.
 
2012-11-19 12:11:57 AM

Myria: Lsherm: Even with that explanation, it still barely makes sense. He wants vaginal sex but only on top? Otherwise, what the hell is he talking about?

I think he means that he wants to use a strap-on to be the dominant top in a gay male relationship.


OK, then it's all just sad. There's a woman who wants to be a gay man, presents as a gay man, and is irritated because she doesn't have a dick yet.
 
2012-11-19 12:15:14 AM

Myria: tinfoil-hat maggie: No hon, you take care of yourself, you deserve happiness, find a good therapist to work with and start dealing with what you've been dealt. Are you on hormones yet? It make a world of difference from what I've heard ; )

I've been seeing a shrink and therapist for years now, and have been on hormones for four and a half years. Despite all that, I still look like a guy.

It's not worth even trying anymore. My mind is destroyed at this point.


I know it's difficult, I know it's gotta be but did you feel better after you got on hormones? Somewhat? Have you finished electrolysis? I know it's all expensive but I'm not sure what you mean by "My mind is destroyed at this point"
 
2012-11-19 12:17:36 AM

Wasilla Hillbilly: Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity [diseased state] than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism


You might not realize this, but linking to sexchangeregret.com to back up some opinion about transsexualism is like linking to the Westboro Baptist Church website to prove a point about homosexuality.
 
2012-11-19 12:21:00 AM

thisiszombocom: i was not buttfarking or been buttfarked by some guy 10 years ago, now, nor will i in the future. keep to yourself san frangayco.


And again, like in almost every thread about lbgtq issues, we see the guy who INSISTS he isn't gay but just LOVES to talk about the buttsex.

Why are you so obsessed about anal sex? Nobody was talking about anal sex until YOU brought it up.
 
2012-11-19 12:28:16 AM

ciberido: thisiszombocom: i was not buttfarking or been buttfarked by some guy 10 years ago, now, nor will i in the future. keep to yourself san frangayco.

And again, like in almost every thread about lbgtq issues, we see the guy who INSISTS he isn't gay but just LOVES to talk about the buttsex.

Why are you so obsessed about anal sex? Nobody was talking about anal sex until YOU brought it up.


So true, hmmm, I wondering if I should post pictures : )
 
2012-11-19 01:11:02 AM

Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how this subject makes so many people angry and afraid for... what reason, exactly? Aside from whining about "your money" doing this-and-that, which is getting pretty old.


Books have been written trying to answer that question. Wikipedia has an entry or two that cover some aspects. But to try to answer briefly, I think it goes something like this:

1) People want their world to be simple and predictable.
2) People want/expect men to be masculine and women to be feminine
3) Men are considered to be superior to women (in most societies)

"Men who want to be women" defies all of these. It's surprising, confusing, defies the simple binary people want and expect, and it challenges the idea that men are superior to women (why would a man want to be an inferior being?).

You notice that people don't seem quite as nonplussed by female-to-male transsexuals. For all that it violates "the natural order of things," at least it makes more sense for a woman to want to be a man than for a man to want to be a woman, since it's so much better to be a man. 

/It SHOULD go without saying, but this being Fark, I'm obligated to point out that I am describing a cultural point of view, not my own personal opinion.
 
2012-11-19 01:26:22 AM

Myria: I've been seeing a shrink and therapist for years now, and have been on hormones for four and a half years. Despite all that, I still look like a guy.

It's not worth even trying anymore. My mind is destroyed at this point.


I think I may have said something like this in another thread but it bears repeating.

Being able to pass may not prove to be the Holy Grail you think it is. Some transsexuals who had SRS years ago report that they worry a lot less about whether or not they'll be "read" (identified as transsexual) than they used to. I've heard a transsexual say, "It just doesn't bother me when people read me like it used to."

I do have a few transgender friends (well, some of them are more like acquaintances, but still). Some of them pass so we'll you'd never guess in a million years that they were trans. Some of the mtfs have every problem you can imagine: six feet tall, big Adam's Apple, deep masculine voice, you name it. But they're HAPPY.

If you're already seeing therapists then I don't know what else I can tell you. Talk to other trans people, if you're not already doing this. I just think you are obsessing over the things you can't change and not focus on what things you CAN do.
 
2012-11-19 01:55:46 AM

Theaetetus: Now, I'm not a doctor. I don't presume to have a medical degree. I don't claim to be the final arbiter of whether a medical procedure is necessary or not.
... where's your medical degree from?


I doubt you'll have trouble finding a doctor who would recommend against gender surgery. I don't think you'll even have to look outside the Bay Area.
 
2012-11-19 02:00:23 AM

Simplicity: I would like to point out that CA is on track to have a Surplus


In what alternate dimension?
 
2012-11-19 02:42:33 AM

Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how this subject makes so many people angry and afraid for... what reason, exactly? Aside from whining about "your money" doing this-and-that, which is getting pretty old.


And the fact that you're so dismissive about people being concerned with what happens with their money is a perfect example of why this nation is on the verge of Soviet style collapse. It is "our money" and we have every god damn right in the world to demand it be used how we see fit. Go pay for your own life and lifestyle.
 
2012-11-19 04:49:34 AM

tinfoil-hat maggie: I know it's difficult, I know it's gotta be but did you feel better after you got on hormones? Somewhat? Have you finished electrolysis? I know it's all expensive but I'm not sure what you mean by "My mind is destroyed at this point"


Hormones have given me a more peaceful feeling; I feel much more like myself. They've also let me think about having a relationship with someone, whereas previously, I didn't want anyone to touch me.

Hormones have actually increased my gender dysphoria. I feel more strongly female, but that makes the disconnect between inside and outside that much larger.

I've had laser hair removal, and now am doing electrolysis to get what's left. It seems to be working decently; I don't have to shave or pluck anymore.
 
2012-11-19 08:05:18 AM
where's my multiple baseball world series wins and 5 superbowls?!
 
2012-11-19 09:03:23 AM

machoprogrammer: Theaetetus: machoprogrammer: titwrench: Why not? There are people that have a psychological need to change their appearance and suffer in their own skin.

There are countless men out there who feel they aren't muscular enough. Should the government pay for their steroids, too?

There are countless women out there who feel they don't have big enough boobs/ass. Should the government foot that bill, too?

Are those countless men and women depressed to the point of being suicidal? Then, yes, the government should. What is it about "medically necessary procedure" you don't understand?

I am as liberal as anyone, but even I think this is retarded.

What about the girl that gets bullied for her big nose, to the point where she is suicidal? Should she get a free nose job?

How about instead of expensive, often times ineffective at alleviating the problem, surgery, we instead find out what is causing it? As a link above says, transsexuals are often more suicidal after the surgery.


No link above says anything like that, and several studies have found the exact opposite.
 
2012-11-19 09:35:46 AM

Myria: It's not worth even trying anymore. My mind is destroyed at this point.


Don't give up Myria, you'll get there. The world is a better place with you in it. Build yourself a circle where you feel safe. The confidence will come. And remember... everyone, cisgendered people included, see awful things that in the mirror that no one else notices.
 
2012-11-19 10:39:39 AM

Keizer_Ghidorah: machoprogrammer: Theaetetus: machoprogrammer: titwrench: Why not? There are people that have a psychological need to change their appearance and suffer in their own skin.

There are countless men out there who feel they aren't muscular enough. Should the government pay for their steroids, too?

There are countless women out there who feel they don't have big enough boobs/ass. Should the government foot that bill, too?

Are those countless men and women depressed to the point of being suicidal? Then, yes, the government should. What is it about "medically necessary procedure" you don't understand?

I am as liberal as anyone, but even I think this is retarded.

What about the girl that gets bullied for her big nose, to the point where she is suicidal? Should she get a free nose job?

How about instead of expensive, often times ineffective at alleviating the problem, surgery, we instead find out what is causing it? As a link above says, transsexuals are often more suicidal after the surgery.

Maybe if people like you would stop harassing, belittling, insulting, and attacking them for not conforming to your personal views, they wouldn't have so many problems.


Please tell me when I ever harassed, belittled, insulted or attacked a transsexual? I would like to know. Or, am I suddenly a transsexual-phobe because I don't think the government should pay for sex change operations?
 
2012-11-20 03:52:51 PM

randomjsa: All I can say is that... You have the time and the money for this?

Here's a wild idea. Instead of covering peoples elective procedures you could spend that money on HIV/AIDS research or cancer or heart disease.

I'm also totally sure that your city infrastructure and schools could use it more.


Multi-tasking. It's real. People do it all the time.

Why do dipshiats like you act like it's an impossible ability?
 
2012-11-20 03:55:55 PM

ciberido: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how this subject makes so many people angry and afraid for... what reason, exactly? Aside from whining about "your money" doing this-and-that, which is getting pretty old.

Books have been written trying to answer that question. Wikipedia has an entry or two that cover some aspects. But to try to answer briefly, I think it goes something like this:

1) People want their world to be simple and predictable.
2) People want/expect men to be masculine and women to be feminine
3) Men are considered to be superior to women (in most societies)

"Men who want to be women" defies all of these. It's surprising, confusing, defies the simple binary people want and expect, and it challenges the idea that men are superior to women (why would a man want to be an inferior being?).

You notice that people don't seem quite as nonplussed by female-to-male transsexuals. For all that it violates "the natural order of things," at least it makes more sense for a woman to want to be a man than for a man to want to be a woman, since it's so much better to be a man. 

/It SHOULD go without saying, but this being Fark, I'm obligated to point out that I am describing a cultural point of view, not my own personal opinion.


Because America is obsessed with "manly" things and "becoming a man". Very few whine and complain about women wearing pants or having jobs that were once male-dominated. There's little mocking of girls that play with Transformers or play Call of Duty. But when it's reversed, oh shiat the insainty explodes.
 
2012-11-20 07:50:34 PM

machoprogrammer: Please tell me when I ever harassed, belittled, insulted or attacked a transsexual? I would like to know. Or, am I suddenly a transsexual-phobe because I don't think the government should pay for sex change operations?


I don't think that anyone would accuse you of personally harassing, belittling, insulting, or attacking transsexuals.

However, it seems that you are actively trying to fight against something that you have no good reason to fight, by insisting over and over again that something isn't true when the growing body of scientific evidence is that it is. You're acting like the fellows who get into the Fark climate change threads and insist over and over again that Global Warming/Climate Change isn't happening. It's not just that you are most likely in the wrong, scientifically, speaking, but it is interesting that you care about the subject so deeply that you post against it over and over and over. It does make one wonder why you are so passionately opposed to something that does not in the slightest affect you personally.
 
2012-11-20 07:56:19 PM

taurusowner: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how this subject makes so many people angry and afraid for... what reason, exactly? Aside from whining about "your money" doing this-and-that, which is getting pretty old.

And the fact that you're so dismissive about people being concerned with what happens with their money is a perfect example of why this nation is on the verge of Soviet style collapse. It is "our money" and we have every god damn right in the world to demand it be used how we see fit. Go pay for your own life and lifestyle.


Except that very often when people who rail about "it's my money and I don't want it wasted on this nonsense," they are, in point of fact, SAVING money. Which means it's a smokescreen.

Case in point: the death penalty. People will rant and rave about how "stupid" it is to "waste money on keeping this scum alive" right up until you point out that the capital punishment COSTS MORE MONEY than keeping someone in life imprisonment. Then, ASTONISHINGLY, instead of going, "Oh, in that case, let's do away with capital punishment, they turn around and say, "Um, well, it's not really about money."

So, I'm sorry, but it;s hard to take you seriously when you claim that it's about saving money when the policy you're decrying is actually the one that would save money.
 
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