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(Daily Mail)   Bad news Scotty: Star Trek-style 'warp drive' systems could turn spacecraft into Death Stars which destroy planets on arrival   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 78
    More: Repeat, Star Trek, planets, Miguel Alcubierre, warp speed, warps, speed of light, Death Star, David Geffen  
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4936 clicks; posted to Geek » on 17 Nov 2012 at 4:04 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-17 07:49:24 PM  
Better a warp drive then entering the warp, I suppose.
 
2012-11-17 07:49:57 PM  

Olympic Trolling Judge: Whoop-dee-doo. Warping space enough for FTL still requires "exotic matter," a.k.a. "sci-fi pixie dust."


Yeah, but whatever the particle is that mediates whatever "Dark Energy" is would seem to be right up the ol' street. So when we understand "Dark Energy" we should understand whether or not you can make/use "sci-fi pixie dust" or an equivalent.

But both to deal with the energy requirements and to limit the nasty environmental effects, you make the exterior of the metric reduce its size as you form it -- the inside seems the same on the starship - while the outside of the metric becomes just larger than the Planck limit.

As Galifreans have known for undefined years, "bigger on the inside than the outside" is the way to go.
 
2012-11-17 08:00:51 PM  

StopLurkListen: Fano: GAT_00: The arrival effect of Alcubierre drives when they collapse their warp field has been known for like 3 years now.

Way to stay on top of things Daily Fail.

I was trying to recall how long this has been known.

Also, it takes the entire power of the universe to charge up, I think.

Well, it's all theoretical at this point, so there's no experimental proof of any of these theories being correct. Yet.

Until recently, the estimate was that you'd need an equivalent "Jupiter" mass's worth of energy to warp space; more recently was someone who theorized a differently-shaped warp bubble resulting in much less energy - a "Voyager probe" mass's worth of energy.

There will be experiments soon on a tiny scale. Fascinating, probably a dead end, but yay science! Sometimes you get surprised.


Interesting choice of a unit of measure . . .

www.gapersblock.com
 
2012-11-17 08:04:37 PM  
So... make your exit facing away from planets... maybe pointed at the star of the system, that might be able to handle the radiation without too much issue.

And if the radiation is confined to a beam, maybe always aim at the nearest black hole?
 
2012-11-17 10:35:27 PM  
i.dailymail.co.uk 
Do the laces on the podball have to face away from the warp or can it have some spin?
 
2012-11-17 10:39:46 PM  

FloydA: You would prefer another target, a military target? Then name the system!


Well done.
 
2012-11-18 12:14:30 AM  
While it is useful to understand the potential hazards of using such a drive, this is something that can be fairly easily resolved. In fact, it was itself apparently suggested by the NASA group working on this when dealing with the power requirements: Stutter the propulsion field.

Though I would also point out that if we can come up with a way to make it happen, we'll likely also have come up with a way to either slowly dial back the field as the ship nears the target system, or shape the field so that the particles are shunted in a safe direction as the drive is shut down.

There are numerous potential engineering fixes for such a relatively minor problem, so the article is just concern-trolling.
 
2012-11-18 12:22:10 AM  
Sounds like a great doomsday weapon. It would have no warning and be instantly devastating.
 
2012-11-18 12:46:32 AM  

unyon: Maybe just point it a little to the side of the planet when entering the coordinates. Space is surprisingly full of nothing in most places.

How 'bout that?


Its also really difficult to get from point a to b without thrust, I know nothing about this warp drive proposal, but I do know if you arrive with momentum and you arent pointed at the planet its going to be tricky to get to the planet,you cant point anywhere near the target planet or any other body in the solar system, so your pointing out ward and moving IDK how fast, so you have to decelerate or slingshot but it all takes reaction mass of some kind. And if you arrive with no momentum in deep space it could take years to get to the planet.

Its all moot since they dont even know what the warp drive ring is made from yet. You might as well propose an engine with a fuel that has an exhaust speed that is fifty million times the speed of light and say we will figure out how to build it later.
 
2012-11-18 01:45:35 AM  
why, for some reason think they're wrong about this.

the energy would be redirected somehow.
 
2012-11-18 02:49:32 AM  
archichris: Its also really difficult to get from point a to b without thrust, I know nothing about this warp drive proposal, but I do know if you arrive with momentum and you arent pointed at the planet its going to be tricky to get to the planet,you cant point anywhere near the target planet or any other body in the solar system, so your pointing out ward and moving IDK how fast, so you have to decelerate or slingshot but it all takes reaction mass of some kind. And if you arrive with no momentum in deep space it could take years to get to the planet.

In Star Trek cannon, they also have subwarp (Impulse) engines (most sci-fi that features FTL travel also has some method of traveling at sub-light speeds.
 
2012-11-18 03:03:44 AM  

GAT_00: The arrival effect of Alcubierre drives when they collapse their warp field has been known for like 3 years now.

Way to stay on top of things Daily Fail.


Came to say this. Also, if I recall correctly, they stated that traveling at (the non-fictional equivalent of) warp 10, it would still take 80+ years to get to the nearest star. So, warp drive doesn't exactly open up the universe for exploration.
 
2012-11-18 03:04:31 AM  

lordargent: archichris: Its also really difficult to get from point a to b without thrust, I know nothing about this warp drive proposal, but I do know if you arrive with momentum and you arent pointed at the planet its going to be tricky to get to the planet,you cant point anywhere near the target planet or any other body in the solar system, so your pointing out ward and moving IDK how fast, so you have to decelerate or slingshot but it all takes reaction mass of some kind. And if you arrive with no momentum in deep space it could take years to get to the planet.

In Star Trek cannon, they also have subwarp (Impulse) engines (most sci-fi that features FTL travel also has some method of traveling at sub-light speeds.


Im talking about reality though. You need to carry fuel, probably a lander, and escape velocity fuel, and whatever it takes to accelerate to the speed you can use the warp coil. Being pretty close to a planet isnt so great if the last .0001% of the trip is going to take you a year worth of accel and decel to reach the planet.
 
2012-11-18 03:08:18 AM  

geek_mars: GAT_00: The arrival effect of Alcubierre drives when they collapse their warp field has been known for like 3 years now.

Way to stay on top of things Daily Fail.

Came to say this. Also, if I recall correctly, they stated that traveling at (the non-fictional equivalent of) warp 10, it would still take 80+ years to get to the nearest star. So, warp drive doesn't exactly open up the universe for exploration.


If you had anti-matter drives you could get to about 50% LS then warp, the time distortion would help the trip time some, Of course im not a physicist so I dont know if you can warp while already doing .5c or not. Of course the infrastructure needed to produce that much anti-matter would already make us a solar system dominating society, with multiple colonies in orbits and on mars and in the asteroid belt.....so maybe all this effort to get to just one more planet is a little bit of a waste of time.
 
2012-11-18 03:14:13 AM  
archichris: Im talking about reality though. You need to carry fuel, probably a lander, and escape velocity fuel, and whatever it takes to accelerate to the speed you can use the warp coil.

You're talking about reality in a thread about theoretical warp engines.

And theoretically, an impulse engine is a magnetoplasmadynamic thruster powered by a deuterium fusion reactor.

The engine itself isn't the problem (we've built magnetoplasmadynamic thruster), the problem as you stated is fuel.

But actually, fuel isn't even the problem, the problem is getting a nuclear reactor of the appropriate size into space. There have been several projects with a goal of doing this, but they all got canceled.
 
2012-11-18 04:07:04 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: So just 3D print a new planet on arrival? Duh?


Well, NASA is 3D printing rocket engines now with a laser melting process. How`s the life extension going? Got anything that works yet?

Gotta love the fail in sarcastically putting down things that work yet promoting a thing that doesn`t work...
 
2012-11-18 04:14:45 AM  
www.allny.com
This is how you instigate a warp.
 
2012-11-18 04:57:11 AM  
You can't get there from here. Well you can, but it's not easy.
 
2012-11-18 05:57:49 AM  

dready zim: Quantum Apostrophe: So just 3D print a new planet on arrival? Duh?

Well, NASA is 3D printing rocket engines now with a laser melting process. How`s the life extension going? Got anything that works yet?

Gotta love the fail in sarcastically putting down things that work yet promoting a thing that doesn`t work...


You know what I find amusing? He always slams space travel as a waste of time and resources, yet if his dream of effective immortality were to actually come true colonizing other planets would become an absolute necessity.
 
2012-11-18 07:02:20 AM  
"Huh...another asteroid field and no planet. We need to get better astronomers...ours suck."
 
2012-11-18 09:26:07 AM  

dready zim: [www.allny.com image 320x240]
This is how you instigate a warp.


Just a jump(drive) to the left . . .
 
2012-11-18 10:43:38 AM  
Folds space huh? I guess Han Solo did know what he was talking about when he said his ship made the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs. 

t3.gstatic.com
 
2012-11-18 11:27:12 AM  

dready zim: Well, NASA is 3D printing rocket engines now with a laser melting process. How`s the life extension going? Got anything that works yet?


You don't live longer than people did a century ago? You were born in a straw hut? No medical care at all? No germ theory to help? Surgeons don't wash their hands before surgery? We have no knowledge of nutrition? No indoor plumbing? No scientific food production, easy office jobs, and fridges full of food? Antibiotics? Vaccines?

No?

Laser sintering is "3D printing" by only the most tortuous redefining of reality. I mean anything is 3D printing in your world. The thing is, that doesn't mean the rickety hot glue gun on a stepper motor the PT Barnums of the world are selling to you will let you "print" rocket engines.

So, I'm going to need you to stop using all the technology and resources that let you live a longer and better life than before. Because I wouldn't want you to have ... inconsistent... (read: stupid) beliefs. 

Since you don't think we've already extended our lifespans, right? Right?

Sorry, but you are stupid.
 
2012-11-18 11:28:28 AM  

Neondistraction: dready zim: Quantum Apostrophe: So just 3D print a new planet on arrival? Duh?

Well, NASA is 3D printing rocket engines now with a laser melting process. How`s the life extension going? Got anything that works yet?

Gotta love the fail in sarcastically putting down things that work yet promoting a thing that doesn`t work...

You know what I find amusing? He always slams space travel as a waste of time and resources, yet if his dream of effective immortality were to actually come true colonizing other planets would become an absolute necessity.


Not at all. Why? We are animals who absolutely must reproduce like cats? Life extension is possible, the level of space travel you drool over will never be. Ever.
 
2012-11-18 11:34:23 AM  

OhioKnight: Olympic Trolling Judge: Whoop-dee-doo. Warping space enough for FTL still requires "exotic matter," a.k.a. "sci-fi pixie dust."

Yeah, but whatever the particle is that mediates whatever "Dark Energy" is would seem to be right up the ol' street.


No. The kind of "exotic matter" needed for warp drives has negative mass-energy. Dark energy has positive mass-energy (but negative pressure).
 
2012-11-18 01:21:49 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: born in a straw hut? No medical care at all? No germ theory to help? Surgeons don't wash their hands before surgery? We have no knowledge of nutrition? No indoor plumbing? No scientific food production, easy office jobs, and fridges full of food? Antibiotics? Vaccines?


Those are all things that stop humans living up to their natural potential. They stop negative things. Remove them and we live lionger but that is not life extension.

Is there anything that actually increases lifespan beyond the natural potential we are born with?

i.e. extension


Also, just to be clear this is not an either/or situation concerning space travel and life extension except in your mind. I would like to live longer and see more people in space. I hope discoveries are made in both fields so we as a species can cope better with very long voyages.

I do not ridicule life extension, I ridicule you and in the best way, by asking you to back up your point with anything close to evidence.
 
2012-11-18 03:44:57 PM  
Probably not the first to say it, but:

A) Makes unwarranted (and dumb) assumptions about both Star Trek and technology not yet in existence, and

B) Recapitulates stuff pointed out by SF authors (Larry Niven, for instance) over 30 freaking years ago.


If you're going to engage in 'speculative science', just ripping off decades-old SF does not qualify as impressive work.
 
2012-11-19 05:53:32 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Friskya: I don't recall "Star Trek" style warp drives having that effect.

They just ripped the fabric of space-time

/much different


Not ripped. They just told it really sternly to get bent.
 
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