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(ESPN)   At this point, Gary Bettman has handled the lockout so poorly this might actually be a compliment   (espn.go.com) divider line 54
    More: Obvious, Gary Bettman, NHL Commissioner, Donald Fehr, NHLPA, Detroit Red Wings  
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2510 clicks; posted to Sports » on 17 Nov 2012 at 3:40 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-17 01:20:53 PM  
I am not so sure. For the majority of the season, players lose more than owners if games are not played. If a shortened season happens, owners win.
 
2012-11-17 03:49:45 PM  
Yeah, clearly the guys who hired Fehr were the ones looking for a reasonable, quick settlement.
 
2012-11-17 03:51:33 PM  

bronyaur1: I am not so sure. For the majority of the season, players lose more than owners if games are not played. If a shortened season happens, owners win.


TSN is reporting that some of the owners are now starting to get extremely upset that the season hasnt started yet. As in their gameplan isnt working and the wrong people are losing profits. They mention specifically Dan Snider, while claiming to be behind bettman has made it extremely clear that he was only on board for up to december 1st lockout.

The big time owners are starting to crack. Missing the big bucks on their end isnt going to compensate for whatever piddly solution keeps the bottom feeders alive.
 
2012-11-17 04:09:05 PM  

LineNoise: Yeah, clearly the guys who hired Fehr were the ones looking for a reasonable, quick settlement.


You know how I know you haven't kept tabs on the NHL lockout?
 
2012-11-17 04:09:43 PM  

poisonedpawn78: bronyaur1: I am not so sure. For the majority of the season, players lose more than owners if games are not played. If a shortened season happens, owners win.

TSN is reporting that some of the owners are now starting to get extremely upset that the season hasnt started yet. As in their gameplan isnt working and the wrong people are losing profits. They mention specifically Dan Snider, while claiming to be behind bettman has made it extremely clear that he was only on board for up to december 1st lockout.

The big time owners are starting to crack. Missing the big bucks on their end isnt going to compensate for whatever piddly solution keeps the bottom feeders alive.


Hope that crack becomes a canyon when this is all over and they kick Bettman out his ass.
 
2012-11-17 04:25:08 PM  

Rwa2play: poisonedpawn78: bronyaur1: I am not so sure. For the majority of the season, players lose more than owners if games are not played. If a shortened season happens, owners win.

TSN is reporting that some of the owners are now starting to get extremely upset that the season hasnt started yet. As in their gameplan isnt working and the wrong people are losing profits. They mention specifically Dan Snider, while claiming to be behind bettman has made it extremely clear that he was only on board for up to december 1st lockout.

The big time owners are starting to crack. Missing the big bucks on their end isnt going to compensate for whatever piddly solution keeps the bottom feeders alive.

Hope that crack becomes a canyon when this is all over and they kick Bettman out his ass.


If they didn't kick him out after losing the entire 2004-2005 season, he's not going to lose his job over this. NHL owners are idiots.
 
2012-11-17 04:25:27 PM  
The players deserve 99% of the revenue. They are the reason the game is played.

The owners should be happy with 1%. That is fair and just.
 
2012-11-17 04:39:08 PM  
When the lockout cancelled an entire season years ago, I supported the owners. There's no way a 3rd or 4th line player should be making $4 million a year.

Now I find the situation reversed. The league is profitable, there's balance with the salary cap, and there's no good reason for the players to be locked out. The owners and Bettman are douchebags.
 
2012-11-17 04:50:13 PM  

mc_madness: The players deserve 99% of the revenue. They are the reason the game is played.

The owners should be happy with 1%. That is fair and just.


As true as that is, the owners do have a right to at least break even financially like any owner of a business does. As such, these should've been very straightforward negotiations (50/50 split, 10-15% of money for all existing contracts deferred and cut from the salary cap number and 5-7 year max contracts with limits on salary variance from year to year), but the owners have been shooting for the moon and won't take anything less it seems. Slayer199 is dead right in what he said (except the profitable part can be strongly argued).
 
2012-11-17 04:55:00 PM  

desertgeek: As true as that is, the owners do have a right to at least break even financially like any owner of a business does. As such, these should've been very straightforward negotiations (50/50 split, 10-15% of money for all existing contracts deferred and cut from the salary cap number and 5-7 year max contracts with limits on salary variance from year to year), but the owners have been shooting for the moon and won't take anything less it seems. Slayer199 is dead right in what he said (except the profitable part can be strongly argued).


50% is more than fair...but the owners wanted more. During the first lockout and cancellation of the season, I believe all but 3-4 teams were losing money. This time around the situation is reversed.
 
2012-11-17 05:13:01 PM  
I really want the lock-out to end, but I'd be happy with it going on until the players get their fair share.
 
2012-11-17 05:13:18 PM  
I don't follow hockey that closely; it blew my mind to learn that the NHL lost an entire season, and somehow didn't come out the other side with a limit on contract length. "Nah, the owners won't take advantage of that, we can trust them to do what's right for the health of the game over their own teams self interests!"
 
2012-11-17 05:16:11 PM  

slayer199: 50% is more than fair...but the owners wanted more. During the first lockout and cancellation of the season, I believe all but 3-4 teams were losing money. This time around the situation is reversed.


The most hilarious thing, to me, about this lockout (and most work stoppages in professional sports) is the simple fact that regardless of what happens, there will be no tangible benefit to us as fans that come out it.

Largely, they're fighting over the costs of labor. Let's say for sh*ts and giggles, the new CBA is reached and it includes a 15% rollback on all salaries and labor costs. As a fan, ticket prices will not go down 15%, nor 10, nor probably even 5%. There is NO correlation between player salaries and ticket price, as scarcity (LOL SUPPLY AND DEMAND) is what drives prices. So, we get no hockey for now, and when it comes back, other market factors completely unrelated to the reasons why we don't have hockey right now will determine the cost of us being fans.
 
2012-11-17 05:21:25 PM  

slayer199: desertgeek: As true as that is, the owners do have a right to at least break even financially like any owner of a business does. As such, these should've been very straightforward negotiations (50/50 split, 10-15% of money for all existing contracts deferred and cut from the salary cap number and 5-7 year max contracts with limits on salary variance from year to year), but the owners have been shooting for the moon and won't take anything less it seems. Slayer199 is dead right in what he said (except the profitable part can be strongly argued).

50% is more than fair...but the owners wanted more. During the first lockout and cancellation of the season, I believe all but 3-4 teams were losing money. This time around the situation is reversed.


They overplayed this one big time, there's no way to spin this so the owners "win."
 
2012-11-17 05:32:15 PM  
fark it, my team won last night
 
2012-11-17 05:40:15 PM  

jayhawk88: I don't follow hockey that closely; it blew my mind to learn that the NHL lost an entire season, and somehow didn't come out the other side with a limit on contract length. "Nah, the owners won't take advantage of that, we can trust them to do what's right for the health of the game over their own teams self interests!"


Bill Simmons wrote the same thing. Bettman and the owners aren't terribly smart. The only reason he's kept around is because the business of hockey is making more money than ever (though I credit the Canadian dollar for a huge amount of that).
 
2012-11-17 05:52:37 PM  
Man, it takes a lot to make Roger "Union Buster" Goodell and David "I hate black people having fun" Stern look good. And yet, Bettman manages it.
 
2012-11-17 06:01:43 PM  

JosephFinn: Man, it takes a lot to make Roger "Union Buster" Goodell and David "I hate black people having fun" Stern look good. And yet, Bettman manages it.


what's Selig's derisive middle name?
 
2012-11-17 06:07:11 PM  
Bettman (The Big Arse of the NHL Owners [i suggest that we now use "the Big Arse" for Bettam on Fark}) is out matched by Feher. Feher has had many years negotiating against owners (NBA, NFL, and now NHL) The NHL owners are just a bunch of dumb arses who say, "Well we don't have an agreement any more but here is 6 yr contract and will figure it later when we have one".

I feel if The Big Arse was out of the negotiations and it was all the team owners this would have been a done deal a long time ago.

The NHL doesn't deserve the slow death that is happening under The Big Arse. It needs to live on and until all the owners quit drinking and smoking what The Big Arse feeds them, we are going to see this shiat happen more and w/ the NHL.

The owners needs to give The Big Arse a swift kick and send him packing, no compensation, nothing. Kick his arse to the curb and pick 3 - 5 owners (hopefully the smartest one) and sit and hammer this thing out.

The Big Arse has done nothing for the NHL but create conflicts between players and the owners. It is time for him to GO!

I have called his office and suggested several monetary splits that I think the owners would like and the players may adopt. One was a 47.5% even split and the remaining 5% going to a fund for the small market teams and the players health and benefits.

The owners should not be allowed to make any contracts with the last 9 mos. of a CBA expiring.

I think The Big Arse has over complicated this whole thing just like any lawyer would do, because if the don't understand the whole thing maybe they'll just sign it.

Look at EULAs people. Have you ever read every line and understood what your rights are when you download that "free stuff", or buy a product or install a Micro$soft product????

I have found contradictions in EULAs before.

/ I'm not a lawyer and don't pretend to be one.
// Just speaking out for the life of the NHL
/// and these are threes!
 
2012-11-17 06:08:17 PM  

The Bestest: JosephFinn: Man, it takes a lot to make Roger "Union Buster" Goodell and David "I hate black people having fun" Stern look good. And yet, Bettman manages it.

what's Selig's derisive middle name?


Bud "Sitting Pretty for the most part" Selig.
 
2012-11-17 06:16:48 PM  
Raaargh Donald Fehr Raaaaargh!

/that's what you sound like, people who think the NHLPA is at fault solely because of the name Donald Fehr.
 
2012-11-17 06:23:16 PM  

Dafatone: Raaargh Donald Fehr Raaaaargh!

/that's what you sound like, people who think the NHLPA is at fault solely because of the name Donald Fehr.


I've never blamed the NHLPA, this is the doings of "The Big ARSE"! (aka G Bettman) Most hocket fans I've talked to know that the Players were LOCKED OUT and not on strike. (Surprising for this being S. FL-duh).

/ See my long-winded post above about how I feel.
 
2012-11-17 06:23:23 PM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: I really want the lock-out to end, but I'd be happy with it going on until the players get their fair share.


This is exactly how I feel. I want hockey, but I don't want the players to cave.
 
2012-11-17 06:26:11 PM  

The Bestest: JosephFinn: Man, it takes a lot to make Roger "Union Buster" Goodell and David "I hate black people having fun" Stern look good. And yet, Bettman manages it.

what's Selig's derisive middle name?


Steroids.
 
2012-11-17 07:01:54 PM  

The Bestest: JosephFinn: Man, it takes a lot to make Roger "Union Buster" Goodell and David "I hate black people having fun" Stern look good. And yet, Bettman manages it.

what's Selig's derisive middle name?


Huber.

/oh wait
 
2012-11-17 07:11:57 PM  
Went and saw some WHL last night. 17 year old kids slapping the puck around and fighting is OK, I guess, in that "Some hockey is better than no hockey" kind of way.
 
2012-11-17 07:30:16 PM  
The owners wiped out a season, got everything they wanted, and then immediately started trying to circumvent their own rules. Starting July 1, the owners handed out hundreds of millions of dollar in contracts. In the few days leading up to the lockout the scrambled to hand out as much dough as possible. Then the next day they "umm, yeah, we're going to need some of that back."

fark you Bettman and the owners you represent. I've got the World Juniors coming up, then it doesn't matter that much if I see another game this year.
 
2012-11-17 07:30:17 PM  

The Bestest: JosephFinn: Man, it takes a lot to make Roger "Union Buster" Goodell and David "I hate black people having fun" Stern look good. And yet, Bettman manages it.

what's Selig's derisive middle name?


sportsillustrated.cnn.com

A picture is worth a thousand words derisive nicknames.
 
2012-11-17 07:31:31 PM  
Screw em. Even if they come back this year I'm sitting out at least until next season. I've been to a few CHL Cutthroats games and to be honest, I haven't had that much fun at a sporting event in a long time. Maybe it's because I don't give a crap about who wins, but those things are damn entertaining. Bottom of the barrel, hookey as all hell, minor-league hockey in a quarter full 60-year old arena that smells like piss, $8 tickets and free parking. The whole thing is right out of Slapshot and the Federal League.

If I want to see good hockey I'll go catch some Pioneers games.

/Go Fish!
 
2012-11-17 07:57:22 PM  
I guess The Big Arse" is not going to make it to Fark. Can we call Arsebag instead?

Someone else come up with suggestions.

Bettman = ????
 
2012-11-17 08:09:37 PM  

poisonedpawn78: They mention specifically Dan Snider


You mean from the GRAVE?

Or, worse, the owner of the Washington Redskins?

Or, did you mean Ed Snider?
 
2012-11-17 09:05:53 PM  

The Bestest: what's Selig's derisive middle name?


He's probably the best Commissioner of all of the big 4 sports. Frightening prospect.
 
2012-11-17 09:17:57 PM  

mc_madness: The players deserve 99% of the revenue. They are the reason the game is played.


So all the coaches, GMs, scouts, staff, trainers, team doctors, icemakers, salespeople, marketers, arena workers, and other assorted people who are paid out of the owners' share, should all have to divvy-up the remaining 1% that the players don't get?
 
2012-11-17 09:26:35 PM  
Went to a Division-so-low-who-the-hell-knows-what-it's-called College hockey game tonight. $5 to get in, sat right on the glass, froze my ass off, and saw some damn good hockey. And some sloppy oops I forgot to pass it in the right direction hockey too, but hey that happens in the NHL, I could pretend I was at a Leafs game.

Hockey is a seriously great game, and a great big F-U to you moocher owners ruining it for everyone. A great big bootkick right in the fivehole to you all.
 
2012-11-17 09:45:23 PM  
I miss watching the Kings play. What sucks from a lohttp://www.fark.com/comments/7439654/At-this-point-Gary-Bettman-has- handled-lockout-so-poorly-this-might-actually-be-a-compliment#bng time (since 1975) fan perspective is that while the Kings will never amount to all that much in the Los Angeles sports universe (Lakers>Dodgers>USC football>UCLA basketball>Clippers>Kings I'd say), they had a chance to solidify their niche after they won the Stanley Cup last year. Instead, it's back to business as usual. *sigh*

Droog8912: A picture is worth a thousand words derisive nicknames.

That's so full of win, kudos.
 
2012-11-17 10:21:23 PM  

slayer199: When the lockout cancelled an entire season years ago, I supported the owners. There's no way a 3rd or 4th line player should be making $4 million a year.

Now I find the situation reversed. The league is profitable, there's balance with the salary cap, and there's no good reason for the players to be locked out. The owners and Bettman are douchebags.


I'm shocked by all the idiots who blame Fehr. WTF? If he orchestrated some sort of strike, I could see it... if the players were demanding more money, I could see it.

The truth of this issue is very simple: The NHL has been making record revenues. The owners have been convinced by Bettman that they can force a renegotiation of the CBA by locking out the players and make even MORE money. Bettman is trying to roll back the revenue sharing to even smaller levels than the ones supposedly negotiated in "good faith" 8 years ago.

There is no way to spin this as the players fault.

It's like your boss at the banana stand claps his hands together, and announces how the stand has made more profits this year than the last three years combined. You say "great, my pay is based on those profits, thanks!", and the boss says, oh, wait, I only want to pay you half of what I agreed to pay you.... You say, "WTF? We have a contract!", boss says, fine, the banana stand is closed until you agree to what I want.

Let me repeat this: There is no way to spin this as the players fault.

I'm not big on unions. I often think players get paid ridiculous amounts of money to play games (though I acknowledge their risk and contributions to the revenue). I believe in Capitalism (not corporatism, though, capitalism's unchecked evil twin).

I think the owners are way out of bounds on this one, and I think Bettman is the instigator.
 
2012-11-17 10:55:49 PM  

slayer199:
Now I find the situation reversed. The league is profitable, there's balance with the salary cap, and there's no good reason for the players to be locked out. The owners and Bettman are douchebags.



The NHL owners don't want the NHL to be a real business, where sometimes a shop has to close, or an owner has to move a factory somewhere else. No, they want zero risk.

They want to be able to make make a bad business decision, like building a space telescope in smog filled downtown LA (or, putting a hockey team in phoenix), but then have a guarantee that the telescope will see the big bang. And if the telescope cant see shiat, they are allowed to blame the scientists and take their salary back instead.

The NHL doesn't want to have 90% of its teams successful. Its wants 100%, and that is a fantasy. No company has every branch turn a profit. It just does not happen in real life.
 
2012-11-17 11:01:30 PM  

PaulieattheTap: I guess The Big Arse" is not going to make it to Fark. Can we call Arsebag instead?

Someone else come up with suggestions.

Bettman = ????


The obvious "Buttman" is a popular name for him.
 
2012-11-17 11:09:53 PM  

LemSkroob: The NHL owners don't want the NHL to be a real business, where sometimes a shop has to close, or an owner has to move a factory somewhere else. No, they want zero risk.


You're right, but that's how most professional leagues are in North America.

Look at the insanely generous revenue sharing in MLB. After Loria's firesale last week, the Marlins payroll is currently just north of $20million, yet they'll receive about DOUBLE that from the revenue sharing pool in 2013 without having to sell a single ticket.
 
2012-11-17 11:14:39 PM  
I should tell this story here...

I work in a public library and I occasionally have to shelve new books. One arrived that had me steaming the other day. The book was the 2013 NHL Official Guide & Record Book. That's bad enough because of all the bullsh*t going on right now. But to add insult to injury, the cover was f*cking Dustin "smug little b*tch" Brown and the LA Kings surrounding the Cup. You know, the team that knocked my team out in the Conference Finals a little less than 6 months ago.

Bastards.
 
2012-11-18 12:09:12 AM  

pregerstheHobo: Screw em. Even if they come back this year I'm sitting out at least until next season. I've been to a few CHL Cutthroats games and to be honest, I haven't had that much fun at a sporting event in a long time. Maybe it's because I don't give a crap about who wins, but those things are damn entertaining. Bottom of the barrel, hookey as all hell, minor-league hockey in a quarter full 60-year old arena that smells like piss, $8 tickets and free parking. The whole thing is right out of Slapshot and the Federal League.

If I want to see good hockey I'll go catch some Pioneers games.

/Go Fish!


That was probably one of the most hilarious and truthful posts I've read in a while.

/I wish I still had the SHL here so I could cure my live hockey fix
 
2012-11-18 12:16:53 AM  
This is laughable coming from Ian White. Bettman has more brains in his little finger than that meathead.
 
2012-11-18 12:30:56 AM  

fatalvenom: pregerstheHobo: Screw em. Even if they come back this year I'm sitting out at least until next season. I've been to a few CHL Cutthroats games and to be honest, I haven't had that much fun at a sporting event in a long time. Maybe it's because I don't give a crap about who wins, but those things are damn entertaining. Bottom of the barrel, hookey as all hell, minor-league hockey in a quarter full 60-year old arena that smells like piss, $8 tickets and free parking. The whole thing is right out of Slapshot and the Federal League.

If I want to see good hockey I'll go catch some Pioneers games.

/Go Fishia

that was probably one of the most hilarious and truthful posts I've read in a while.

/I wish I still had the SHL here so I could cure my live hockey fix


Thanks, but it's the truth. I have way moar fun at CHL games than I've had at Avs games. You can get as drunk as you want (make a spicy soda! large pop+contraband flask=win) and yell at those bums. It. Is. Awesome.

The sad part is, the college hockey costs more than the minor leagues.

/at Cutthroats games I'm the drunk arsehole
//and you walk past the away team bus on the way to the door from the parking lot
///I'm bringing a sledge hammer next time
 
2012-11-18 02:45:07 AM  

carnifex2005: jayhawk88: I don't follow hockey that closely; it blew my mind to learn that the NHL lost an entire season, and somehow didn't come out the other side with a limit on contract length. "Nah, the owners won't take advantage of that, we can trust them to do what's right for the health of the game over their own teams self interests!"

Bill Simmons wrote the same thing. Bettman and the owners aren't terribly smart. The only reason he's kept around is because the business of hockey is making more money than ever (though I credit the Canadian dollar for a huge amount of that).


It helped but the NHL didn't go from $800 million a year to $3.3 billion a year because of inflation and CAD being on par with USD.

Bill Simmons also is the worst kind of hockey "fan". "Hey, here's my 'fark the Bruins forever' column since they lost in the playoffs again" *Bruins win Cup* "WOOOOOOO BRUINS BOBBY ORR CAM NEELY YAAAAAY" The very next goddamn season. "Wow, the NBA is so stupid about all this lockout stuff, I know, why don't I go to LA Kings games?" *NBA comes back, Kings are a boring team, oh wait they got hot in the playoffs and beat a lot of good teams* "HOLY CRAP WHAT A TEAM WHAT A SPORT THERE'S NOTHING LIKE HOCKEY WHAT HAVE I BEEN TELLING YOU ALL THIS TIME"
 
2012-11-18 02:48:34 AM  

LesserEvil:

There is no way to spin this as the players fault.

It's like your boss at the banana stand claps his hands together, and announces how the stand has made more profits this year than the last three years combined. You say "great, my pay is based on those profits, thanks!", and the boss says, oh, wait, I only want to pay you half of what I agreed to pay you.... You say, "WTF? We have a contract!", boss says, fine, the banana stand is closed until you agree to what I want.


There's always money in the banana stand.
 
2012-11-18 02:58:21 AM  
I almost wish the players could win one of these labour disputes just so the smug people who spout off "blame Buttman" without having any clue whatsoever as to what is going on could find out just what kind of a disaster that would be.

Let's start with dropping down to three (max) Canadian teams first, shall we?
 
2012-11-18 03:24:16 AM  

Tryfan: I almost wish the players could win one of these labour disputes just so the smug people who spout off "blame Buttman" without having any clue whatsoever as to what is going on could find out just what kind of a disaster that would be.

Let's start with dropping down to three (max) Canadian teams first, shall we?


Gary Bettman is bad at labor negotiations but it's undeniable what he has accomplished for the NHL during his tenure.

The NHL, warts and all, is far better off today than it was in the early 90s when it was a 21-team league with an incredibly limited footprint that needed gate receipts to make their money.

It's good that there are 30 teams. It's good that they are in non-traditional markets. The sport IS growing. The global talent pool is bigger than ever. The solution to the league's problems is NOT to take the bottom 10 teams in attendance and move them to Seattle, Milwaukee, Quebec, Hamilton, Saskatoon, whatever.
 
2012-11-18 03:40:26 AM  

ElwoodCuse: Tryfan: I almost wish the players could win one of these labour disputes just so the smug people who spout off "blame Buttman" without having any clue whatsoever as to what is going on could find out just what kind of a disaster that would be.

Let's start with dropping down to three (max) Canadian teams first, shall we?

Gary Bettman is bad at labor negotiations but it's undeniable what he has accomplished for the NHL during his tenure.

The NHL, warts and all, is far better off today than it was in the early 90s when it was a 21-team league with an incredibly limited footprint that needed gate receipts to make their money.

It's good that there are 30 teams. It's good that they are in non-traditional markets. The sport IS growing. The global talent pool is bigger than ever. The solution to the league's problems is NOT to take the bottom 10 teams in attendance and move them to Seattle, Milwaukee, Quebec, Hamilton, Saskatoon, whatever.


Heh, Toon Town. Put them in Regina, make the team colours green and white and you can have... Canada's team! :D

/just like in the CFL
 
2012-11-18 04:54:49 AM  

Matt Foley: poisonedpawn78: They mention specifically Dan Snider

You mean from the GRAVE?

Or, worse, the owner of the Washington Redskins?

Or, did you mean Ed Snider?


LOL ooops yeah .. Ed not Dan. I was looking at my Fantasy football team while looking up sports news.
 
2012-11-18 06:50:28 AM  

ElwoodCuse:
Bill Simmons also is the worst kind of hockey "fan". "Hey, here's my 'fark the Bruins forever' column since they lost in the playoffs again" *Bruins win Cup* "WOOOOOOO BRUINS BOBBY ORR CAM NEELY YAAAAAY" The very next goddamn season. "Wow, the NBA is so stupid about all this lockout stuff, I know, why don't I go to LA Kings games?" *NBA comes back, Kings are a boring team, oh wait they got hot in the playoffs and beat a lot of good teams* "HOLY CRAP WHAT A TEAM WHAT A SPORT THERE'S NOTHING LIKE HOCKEY WHAT HAVE I BEEN TELLING YOU ALL THIS TIME"


THIS

Bill Simmons is a massive tool. Like many of his fellow Bostonians, he is a shameless front-runner.

Let's not forget that his stated reason for giving up on the NHL the first time around was because the Bruins traded noted superstar Jason Allison. Jason farkin Allison. Seriously.

Anything Simmons writes about hockey should be disregarded. He has no idea what it means to be an actual hockey fan.
 
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