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(Mother Jones)   If you Farkers think you're comfortable with your craft brew, think again   (motherjones.com) divider line 164
    More: Scary, Washington Monthly, Tim Heffernan, Anheuser-Busch InBev, craft brewers, SKUs, SABMiller, InBev, threats  
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12453 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Nov 2012 at 3:37 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-17 02:07:26 AM
One thing I've noticed that I don't think the big boys have an answer for is the recent rise in beer houses. They have been popping up all over the place lately and the craft beers are the clear favorite. One of the houses here in Charlotte refuses to serve anything that is not a craft beer. I've talked top the owner and he says he will go out of business before he sells a Budweiser. The place is packed every night. If your in the area it's called VBGB. it's been highlighted on the show "drinking made easy". Fun place great beers and they always have some thing new to try.
 
2012-11-17 10:38:48 AM
Meh. If the big boys buy up and ruin the craft brewers, I'll just start making my own again.
 
2012-11-17 10:44:13 AM
YOU FOOL! YOU'VE SUMMONED THE APOSTROPHE POLICE!
 
2012-11-17 10:46:08 AM
The problem isn't retail space (my local has three half aisles and a cooler devoted to beer and 16 devoted to wine) but tap space at the local.
 
2012-11-17 10:48:08 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: YOU FOOL! YOU'VE SUMMONED THE APOSTROPHE POLICE!


It's become so common I don't even bother commenting on it. Why do so many people want to use an apostrophe with plurals?
 
2012-11-17 10:48:35 AM

St_Francis_P: Meh. If the big boys buy up and ruin the craft brewers, I'll just start making my own again.


I really don't want to start up my own brewing club again after ten years... those guys were a bunch of drunks.

/as I was the artist in the group, I did over thirty labels to put on all those beers
 
2012-11-17 10:50:32 AM
If I think I'm comfortable, then I'm likely comfortable. That piece of pedantic logic aside, my go-to craft brewers will not be touched by this.

It's sometimes good to live on the frozen tundra, away from the reach of SABM/AB-IB/VD/IUD.
 
2012-11-17 10:53:02 AM

AlwaysRightBoy: St_Francis_P: Meh. If the big boys buy up and ruin the craft brewers, I'll just start making my own again.

I really don't want to start up my own brewing club again after ten years... those guys were a bunch of drunks.

/as I was the artist in the group, I did over thirty labels to put on all those beers


A friend brews a lot of mead and melomel, so I'm covered in any event. He has an artist friend making labels. She's getting pretty good at it.
 
2012-11-17 11:03:16 AM

St_Francis_P: AlwaysRightBoy: St_Francis_P: Meh. If the big boys buy up and ruin the craft brewers, I'll just start making my own again.

I really don't want to start up my own brewing club again after ten years... those guys were a bunch of drunks.

/as I was the artist in the group, I did over thirty labels to put on all those beers

A friend brews a lot of mead and melomel, so I'm covered in any event. He has an artist friend making labels. She's getting pretty good at it.


My best label was "Toads Spit Ale". I wish I could show you the label.
 
2012-11-17 12:16:27 PM
Ah, the wonders of a free market. Driving out competition because it makes a better product.
 
2012-11-17 12:19:53 PM

GAT_00: Ah, the wonders of a free market. Driving out competition because it makes a better product.


I liked the part about their being unable to consolidate further without possible anti-trust repercussions

/ALL YOUR BEER ARE BELONG TO US
//I'll stick with cider
 
2012-11-17 12:22:53 PM

GAT_00: Ah, the wonders of a free market. Driving out competition because it makes a better product.


This just goes to my thesis: the most anti-competitive force on the planet is big business. Not to say Sierra Nevada or Dogfish Head wouldn't do this if they could, but they're nowhere near being able to do it. Every business' dream is to charge as much as possible while providing as little possible. Quality beers threaten that model.
 
2012-11-17 12:27:41 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I liked the part about their being unable to consolidate further without possible anti-trust repercussions


Yeah, like they are actually going to get attacked for violating anti-trust laws.
 
2012-11-17 12:41:51 PM

St_Francis_P: MaudlinMutantMollusk: YOU FOOL! YOU'VE SUMMONED THE APOSTROPHE POLICE!

It's become so common I don't even bother commenting on it. Why do so many people want to use an apostrophe with plurals?


It's not as bad as people who put apostrophes in the names of their children.
 
2012-11-17 12:43:48 PM

GAT_00: Ah, the wonders of a free market. Driving out competition because it makes a better product.


Since most people are satisfied with crappy beer, the meaning of "better" is debatable in the large picture. As far as the market goes, better means reasonably cheap, or at least affordable, with lots of effective advertising, product placement, and demographic identification.
 
2012-11-17 12:58:39 PM
The ironic thing is that the people who are claiming that the big brewers don't make a quality product are wrong.

American light lager is difficult to make, and the consistency and freshness is amazing.

That being said, I believe that A-B is evil.
 
2012-11-17 12:59:09 PM
Dave and his national accounts team walked me through a deck showing that chains that over-SKU with crafts end up selling less beer and making less profit than chains that protect their domestic premium space.

I think their research is SKU'ed
 
2012-11-17 01:19:52 PM
Two companies dominating a beverage industry? Unheard of!

www.logoblog.org
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-11-17 01:27:27 PM

St_Francis_P: GAT_00: Ah, the wonders of a free market. Driving out competition because it makes a better product.

Since most people are satisfied with crappy beer, the meaning of "better" is debatable in the large picture. As far as the market goes, better means reasonably cheap, or at least affordable, with lots of effective advertising, product placement, and demographic identification.


Buying a bad product doesn't make it good. I have Comcast because I don't have a decent second option.
 
2012-11-17 01:30:02 PM

GAT_00: St_Francis_P: GAT_00: Ah, the wonders of a free market. Driving out competition because it makes a better product.

Since most people are satisfied with crappy beer, the meaning of "better" is debatable in the large picture. As far as the market goes, better means reasonably cheap, or at least affordable, with lots of effective advertising, product placement, and demographic identification.

Buying a bad product doesn't make it good. I have Comcast because I don't have a decent second option.


Except I've talked to people who like Bud and Miller. They think it's perfectly good. I won't drink it either, but that's the reality of the market.
 
2012-11-17 01:36:59 PM
Not sure if it still counts as a "craft" beer, but this is what we drink in New Orleans:

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com

And because it's sweet, this is a good breakfast beer. Goes down easy:

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2012-11-17 01:47:07 PM

St_Francis_P: GAT_00: St_Francis_P: GAT_00: Ah, the wonders of a free market. Driving out competition because it makes a better product.

Since most people are satisfied with crappy beer, the meaning of "better" is debatable in the large picture. As far as the market goes, better means reasonably cheap, or at least affordable, with lots of effective advertising, product placement, and demographic identification.

Buying a bad product doesn't make it good. I have Comcast because I don't have a decent second option.

Except I've talked to people who like Bud and Miller. They think it's perfectly good. I won't drink it either, but that's the reality of the market.


And people think McDonalds and Sonic are good too. Americans have a long history of aspiring to reach the worst.
 
2012-11-17 01:50:38 PM

GAT_00: St_Francis_P: GAT_00: St_Francis_P: GAT_00: Ah, the wonders of a free market. Driving out competition because it makes a better product.

Since most people are satisfied with crappy beer, the meaning of "better" is debatable in the large picture. As far as the market goes, better means reasonably cheap, or at least affordable, with lots of effective advertising, product placement, and demographic identification.

Buying a bad product doesn't make it good. I have Comcast because I don't have a decent second option.

Except I've talked to people who like Bud and Miller. They think it's perfectly good. I won't drink it either, but that's the reality of the market.

And people think McDonalds and Sonic are good too. Americans have a long history of aspiring to reach the worst.


Not arguing with that.
 
2012-11-17 02:00:29 PM

dickfreckle: Not sure if it still counts as a "craft" beer, but this is what we drink in New Orleans:



And because it's sweet, this is a good breakfast beer. Goes down easy:


Love them both. Only place I can get them in Charlotte is at a few of our cajun restaurants and world of beer
 
2012-11-17 02:03:03 PM
"Hyperconsolidation of the kind seen in the beer industry drives down consumer prices"

So he thinks supply and demand does not apply? I guess not since he goes on to describe how you manipulate the retailers.
 
2012-11-17 02:11:27 PM

sammyk: and world of beer


You realize my ears perked up when you said, "World of Beer," yes?

So I googled it+ Charlotte.

Jealous, even though I live in the alcohol capitol of the world. Well, there's Wisconsin. Those folks scare even me.
 
2012-11-17 02:14:04 PM
I've been away for a while: is this thread where I talk about how your beer isn't as cool as my beer?
 
2012-11-17 02:24:09 PM
Only one of the five bars on my street has anything like Bud Light on draft. I live in a pretty cool little neighborhood.
 
2012-11-17 02:34:24 PM
InBev is not going to interfere with the 10 gallons of Honey Brown I'm brewing in my back yard right now. Screw 'em.
 
2012-11-17 02:36:57 PM

what_now: I've been away for a while: is this thread where I talk about how your beer isn't as cool as my beer?


Uh-oh, we've been told. Back to drinking Iron City Light.
 
2012-11-17 03:21:22 PM
There can be only ONE!

www.savingadvice.com
 
2012-11-17 03:40:14 PM
If my only choices are Bud, Miller, or Coors, I'll have a water, which tastes the same as those three.
 
2012-11-17 03:43:24 PM
I doubt anyone will be after the mead brewers a couple roads over. Those people are awesome. Never mind the fact they've got a honey-chocolate-orange toast spread available.
 
2012-11-17 03:43:36 PM
Tangent...anyone here tried Innis & Gunn's Rum Cask beer?

Buddy just turned me on to it...it's like drinking electric velvet.

/better be, at ten bucks a four pack
//worth it
 
2012-11-17 03:45:26 PM

what_now: I've been away for a while: is this thread where I talk about how your beer isn't as cool as my beer?


No, it's about peeing.
 
2012-11-17 03:47:39 PM

halfof33: The ironic thing is that the people who are claiming that the big brewers don't make a quality product are wrong.

American light lager is difficult to make, and the consistency and freshness is amazing.


This is so very, very true. Their processes are remarkable. I just don't like their beer. Thankfully, I didn't see anything in the article which would in any way suggest that somehow I'm going to, at some point in the future, be compelled to drink beer I don't like.
 
2012-11-17 03:48:28 PM
Considering that in many states there are two beer distributors, and it is illegal for craft beer makers to pool their resources to do the same, many of the six packs you will see on shelves are made by bud or miller with a pretty label.

/You can argue about the quality of that pretty label beer.
//The joke is the big beer makers get to decide what beer is available and where it is put.
 
2012-11-17 03:48:59 PM

AlwaysRightBoy: St_Francis_P: AlwaysRightBoy: St_Francis_P: Meh. If the big boys buy up and ruin the craft brewers, I'll just start making my own again.

I really don't want to start up my own brewing club again after ten years... those guys were a bunch of drunks.

/as I was the artist in the group, I did over thirty labels to put on all those beers

A friend brews a lot of mead and melomel, so I'm covered in any event. He has an artist friend making labels. She's getting pretty good at it.

My best label was "Toads Spit Ale". I wish I could show you the label.


There's a local brewery in the region called Dead Frog. Considering they came up with a chocolate mint ale at one point, the squashed frog was appropriate.
 
2012-11-17 03:49:15 PM

dickfreckle: Not sure if it still counts as a "craft" beer, but this is what we drink in New Orleans:

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 245x205]

And because it's sweet, this is a good breakfast beer. Goes down easy:

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 259x194]


Abita Amber is my favorite American beer.

img820.imageshack.us 

It is especially good straight from the tap at the brewery.
 
2012-11-17 03:49:48 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: YOU FOOL! YOU'VE SUMMONED THE APOSTROPHE POLICE!


IT'S AN APOCALYPSTROPHE!
 
2012-11-17 03:49:53 PM

dickfreckle: Not sure if it still counts as a "craft" beer, but this is what we drink in New Orleans:

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 245x205]

And because it's sweet, this is a good breakfast beer. Goes down easy:

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 259x194]



They're a little too big to be called "craft" I'd say.  And you can get it at every bar in New Orleans and probably Louisiana.  Can't say that about any other non-macrobrew, even stuff made in Louisiana.
 
2012-11-17 03:51:36 PM
Yep, not worried. We have plenty of bars in Orlando that only sell craft beers. It is awesome. Redlight Redlight FTW!
 
2012-11-17 03:52:40 PM
I brew my own...

fark them
 
2012-11-17 03:53:18 PM
Meh.

Anheuser-Busch InBev owns a sizable minority stake of Widmer, and quality hasn't suffered because of that, IMHO.

/ haters gonna hate...
 
2012-11-17 03:59:44 PM

GAT_00: Ah, the wonders of a free market. Driving out competition because it makes a better product.


Actually it's government regulation that is allowing this to happen. The three tier system created at the end of prohibition is what is allowin this abuse. Check out Beer Wars where they go pretty at length on the subject.
 
2012-11-17 03:59:47 PM
Lucky enough to live close to
Lewis and Clark Brewery
Blackfoot River Brewery
Big Sky Brewery

Just noticed one shelf in our fridge is nothing but growlers from the locals. An awful problem to have.
 
2012-11-17 04:00:06 PM
Okay, so the ideal number of SKUs isn't 187. It isn't 2, either.
 
2012-11-17 04:00:49 PM
FTA What the beer exec is saying is that supermarkets and corner stores might think they make more money by finding space on the shelves for independent craft beers, but they actually sell more beer and book more profits by dropping craft beers and sticking with the giants.

Not really true.

also

And the giants are now peddling faux craft beers like InBev's Shock Top or SABMiller's Pale Moon. So if you're running the beer cooler of the retail outlet, you'd do better to offer a couple of corporate-made craft knockoffs than a dozen genuine craft brews.
Aye. Shock top and blue moon are quite popular, but then again, so is NBB- I cant keep Ranger ipa in stock.

And
Dave showed research that indicated that retailers that have too many SKUs actually end up selling less overall beer. Thats a flat out lie, except for where the big boys are concerned. I have 6 pk can, 6 pk btl 12 can/bottle 18 pk can 20 pk btl 30 pk can 16oz can 6pk, 24 oz can and 3pk 24 oz can, and that just for bud light. Sales of most units except for 18 pk can and 24oz 3 pks is way down from last year and the last couple of years before that.

Its good that I have 4 independents in addtion to the 2 big boys- I bring in Icelandic plae ale and toasted porter and they just fly off the shelves.
 
2012-11-17 04:03:36 PM

Bob_Laublaw: If I think I'm comfortable, then I'm likely comfortable.


So do people lying in a snowbank moments before they freeze to death. Same with someone who has a concussion. Or the frog in the slow simmering pot. Sometimes it does take another person to tell you you aren't comfortable but in deep shiat.
 
2012-11-17 04:06:27 PM
F the Big Two. The old school craft brewers that were there before the craze will survive when all the hobbyists and ingenue rookies bite the dust.
 
2012-11-17 04:08:18 PM
Uhma drinkun consorregated- um-- beer right now so I'm getting my ass kicked out. You know who else drank consorrogated beer? Onana. The president drunk some consorregated beer wif a plumber guy who was always preachin' that kama sutra...uh.. Joe Satriani. That wuz his name, Joey or sumfren.

Oh yeah, now uh 'member ...Itz all soshulizm biatchuz, it's like taking the working man's twinkies away from his hungry children and feedin' them to the jews in in that Gaza Strip Club right here in Washington DC. It's all going down right in front of your eyes....
 
2012-11-17 04:08:31 PM
I take this article with an immense shovel of salt, since it's Mother Jones. But, in the final issue, if it comes to pass, I just continue brewing my own. I won't buy the beers of the bigs (even their soi-disant "crafts") anyway.
Some good that could come out of this is to make beers more intensely -micro, or even -nano than they are right now. Beer is fundamentally a perishable, local product that should be made and consumed that way. I subscribe to the New Glarus motto: "Drink Indigenous."
 
2012-11-17 04:10:27 PM
 
2012-11-17 04:11:15 PM

Enemabag Jones: in many states there are two beer distributors


Really? Which states?
 
2012-11-17 04:17:13 PM
Soon I'll be living 2 blocks away from Fullsteam Brewery in Durham NC. Looking forward to many pints of the Southern Lager in my future.
 
2012-11-17 04:17:50 PM
So now Blue Moon and Shock Top are knockoffs yet Sunshine and Boulevard Wheat are craft beers? Thanks beer snobs. You lost, get over it.
 
2012-11-17 04:20:07 PM
To increase their profits, he shows, the companies are moving toward a vertical-integration strategy: gunning for control of the distribution and wholesaling.

Because nothing says fair competition with small businesses like using your multinational reach and billion dollar profit margin to achieve nearly all-encompassing vertical integration.
 
2012-11-17 04:22:03 PM

DoctorCal: Enemabag Jones: in many states there are two beer distributors

Really? Which states?


If what I learned from Beer Wars is accurate, when prohibition ended they made all sorts of goofy laws to control the sale of alcohol. So the states were each divided into "zones" and each zone was allowed a specific number (around 3) distributors. And so the common pattern in each zone is one for Annheuser-Busch, one for SABMiller and one for Coors and whatever microbrewers that can afford to pay for the leftover space on their distribution truck.

It wouldn't surprise me to find out that a distribution congolmerate was in control of a piece of multiple zones in a state.
 
2012-11-17 04:23:00 PM

St_Francis_P: GAT_00: Ah, the wonders of a free market. Driving out competition because it makes a better product.

Since most people are satisfied with crappy beer, the meaning of "better" is debatable in the large picture. As far as the market goes, better means reasonably cheap, or at least affordable, with lots of effective advertising, product placement, and demographic identification.


I drink crappy beer (the kind found all the way to the left end of the cooler at Walmart) as punishment for not making better life decisions that would have allowed me to buy better. When i'm on a particularly nasty bout of self pity, I'll chug a couple of Nattie 40's and try to sound witty in the politics tab- I figure you have to play on a level field when you enter that tab.

The good news is that i have everything I need- short of a 6 gallon pot and fresh grains and hops to have a go at it by myself. Can anyone recommend a good lager-like first timers recipe? I want to go easy on the hops, maybe something with carmelized oats but not much more intricate than that. Definitely do not want to attempt a lager as I won't have much control over the lower temperatures nor timetable required to make a decent lager.
 
2012-11-17 04:23:16 PM
Everyone panic! They're coming for your BEER.
 
2012-11-17 04:24:26 PM

downstairs: dickfreckle: Not sure if it still counts as a "craft" beer, but this is what we drink in New Orleans:

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 245x205]

And because it's sweet, this is a good breakfast beer. Goes down easy:

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 259x194]


They're a little too big to be called "craft" I'd say.  And you can get it at every bar in New Orleans and probably Louisiana.  Can't say that about any other non-macrobrew, even stuff made in Louisiana.


Sierra Nevada.
 
2012-11-17 04:24:41 PM

mynameist: So now Blue Moon and Shock Top are knockoffs yet Sunshine and Boulevard Wheat are craft beers? Thanks beer snobs. You lost, get over it.


So, you neither understand what constitutes a craft beer nor sales trends. Got it. Go enjoy your Bud Light.
 
2012-11-17 04:25:44 PM
Just brew your own booze. It is easy and much cheaper.
 
2012-11-17 04:25:59 PM

what_now: I've been away for a while: is this thread where I talk about how your beer isn't as cool as my beer?


Unless yur beer is above room temperature, you have me beat when it comes to room temp. which in my home is around 65 this time of year.
 
2012-11-17 04:26:07 PM

clowncar on fire: St_Francis_P: GAT_00: Ah, the wonders of a free market. Driving out competition because it makes a better product.

Since most people are satisfied with crappy beer, the meaning of "better" is debatable in the large picture. As far as the market goes, better means reasonably cheap, or at least affordable, with lots of effective advertising, product placement, and demographic identification.

I drink crappy beer (the kind found all the way to the left end of the cooler at Walmart) as punishment for not making better life decisions that would have allowed me to buy better. When i'm on a particularly nasty bout of self pity, I'll chug a couple of Nattie 40's and try to sound witty in the politics tab- I figure you have to play on a level field when you enter that tab.

The good news is that i have everything I need- short of a 6 gallon pot and fresh grains and hops to have a go at it by myself. Can anyone recommend a good lager-like first timers recipe? I want to go easy on the hops, maybe something with carmelized oats but not much more intricate than that. Definitely do not want to attempt a lager as I won't have much control over the lower temperatures nor timetable required to make a decent lager.


If you have a local beer and wine brewing store, pay them a visit. Most of those guys are happy to help you out.
 
2012-11-17 04:26:23 PM
I'm done with beer. Looking forward to the implementation of a higher substance.
 
2012-11-17 04:29:01 PM
So brew your own. Malted barley, yeast, water. No biggie.
 
2012-11-17 04:29:09 PM

St_Francis_P: The good news is that i have everything I need- short of a 6 gallon pot and fresh grains and hops to have a go at it by myself. Can anyone recommend a good lager-like first timers recipe?


if you're truly a first timer, doing a full boil, make sure you have enough heat to boil 6 gallons of liquid.
 
2012-11-17 04:30:44 PM

baorao: St_Francis_P: The good news is that i have everything I need- short of a 6 gallon pot and fresh grains and hops to have a go at it by myself. Can anyone recommend a good lager-like first timers recipe?

if you're truly a first timer, doing a full boil, make sure you have enough heat to boil 6 gallons of liquid.


You got the wrong name attached to that, but the advice is good.
 
2012-11-17 04:30:45 PM

baorao: It wouldn't surprise me to find out that a distribution congolmerate was in control of a piece of multiple zones in a state.


DIng ding ding. Its like that here- One company, 2 ( well many more, but only 2 count for me ) counties.
I cannot buy from LA County, but can from Ventura.Guess which one sucks ? Thats right, the one I have to buy from. At least as far as miller coors goes.

On the plus side, the Bud guys can get me stuff from San Luis Obispo that is not sent this far south, which is nice
 
2012-11-17 04:33:01 PM
The carboy of pumpkin ale I've had aging for a while laughs at you, subby.
 
2012-11-17 04:35:37 PM

Semi-Sane: Just brew your own booze. It is easy and much cheaper.


Not much cheaper but can definitely brag,"i built this". That and the distinct possibility of never having that particular flavored beer again. Unless you take meticulous notes, every step of the way.
 
2012-11-17 04:38:39 PM
Beer porn thread?

This is just a little more than half of the beer selection at a local grocery store. I love that place.

www.freeimagehosting.net 
/clicks to full
 
2012-11-17 04:38:53 PM
which craft?

images1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-11-17 04:40:32 PM

Cyclometh: The carboy of pumpkin ale I've had aging for a while laughs at you, subby.


Plastic or glass- I was wondering if I could use one of those plastic water jugs you find in the office,but covered with a blanket to keep out the light as a carboy. As the contents are not under pressure, I'm not seeing to many downsides to my scheme. Probably difficult to clean but maybe better than a 6 gallon utility pail?
 
2012-11-17 04:44:52 PM

clowncar on fire: Cyclometh: The carboy of pumpkin ale I've had aging for a while laughs at you, subby.

Plastic or glass- I was wondering if I could use one of those plastic water jugs you find in the office,but covered with a blanket to keep out the light as a carboy. As the contents are not under pressure, I'm not seeing to many downsides to my scheme. Probably difficult to clean but maybe better than a 6 gallon utility pail?


We successfully used a 6-gallon plastic brewing pail for many batches. The plastic carboy might be OK, but I'd worry about scratching the interior with the cleaning brush. The scratches can harbor bacteria, although if you use disinfectant solution properly that may not be an issue.
 
2012-11-17 04:45:35 PM

Doom MD: GAT_00: Ah, the wonders of a free market. Driving out competition because it makes a better product.

Actually it's government regulation that is allowing this to happen. The three tier system created at the end of prohibition is what is allowin this abuse. Check out Beer Wars where they go pretty at length on the subject.


Why is it there is always someone saying that an unregulated market acting like an unregulated market is somehow the government's fault? Just own up that this is exactly what Libertarian economics looks like for fark's sake.
 
2012-11-17 04:46:17 PM

clowncar on fire: Cyclometh: The carboy of pumpkin ale I've had aging for a while laughs at you, subby.

Plastic or glass- I was wondering if I could use one of those plastic water jugs you find in the office,but covered with a blanket to keep out the light as a carboy. As the contents are not under pressure, I'm not seeing to many downsides to my scheme. Probably difficult to clean but maybe better than a 6 gallon utility pail?


Plastic is hard to sanitise.Glass is not. Use a new plastic one only once. Glass is heavy but its worth it.
 
2012-11-17 04:46:47 PM

St_Francis_P: baorao: St_Francis_P: The good news is that i have everything I need- short of a 6 gallon pot and fresh grains and hops to have a go at it by myself. Can anyone recommend a good lager-like first timers recipe?

if you're truly a first timer, doing a full boil, make sure you have enough heat to boil 6 gallons of liquid.

You got the wrong name attached to that, but the advice is good.


Research says you are only boiling about 3 gallons for a five gallon batch- than adding the additional two gallons of boiling water to the wart before cooling it down. You just need the extra sized pot to avoid boiling over and preventing splashies when you stir or adding hops.
 
2012-11-17 04:47:56 PM
Actually it's government regulation that is allowing this to happen. The three tier system created at the end of prohibition is what is allowin this abuse. Check out Beer Wars where they go pretty at length on the subject.

Pretty much. After prohibition ended, suffering prohibitionists did everything they could to ruin beer. They imagined selling spirits in low-key "package stores" for the serious drunks, and the majority of the public just looking for social drinking would be weened into low alcohol mass produced beer for things like sporting events and tailgating. It isn't hard to see why (from the prohibitions point of view), they imagined people trying to get drunk would be massively hydrated from the water to alcohol content ratio and pissing like a race horse before they could wig out in the drunk rages they envisioned. Until recently, many states still had upper limits of alcohol content in beer at like 3.5% practically making craft beers illegal. So hardly a free market creation.
 
2012-11-17 04:51:34 PM

clowncar on fire: St_Francis_P: baorao: St_Francis_P: The good news is that i have everything I need- short of a 6 gallon pot and fresh grains and hops to have a go at it by myself. Can anyone recommend a good lager-like first timers recipe?

if you're truly a first timer, doing a full boil, make sure you have enough heat to boil 6 gallons of liquid.

You got the wrong name attached to that, but the advice is good.

Research says you are only boiling about 3 gallons for a five gallon batch- than adding the additional two gallons of boiling water to the wart before cooling it down. You just need the extra sized pot to avoid boiling over and preventing splashies when you stir or adding hops.


Yeah thats true. But that is only a partial boil. That can be done indoors on a range. I just assumed that when you said 6 gallon that you were doing a full, because 6 gallon pots are a bit harder to come by. 5 gallon stainless steel stock pots can be found pretty easily. I've never done a full boil fwiw.

Based on what you're planning, I'd check out Austin HomeBrew for an extract kit. They have a pretty good selection of "clone" recipes.
 
2012-11-17 04:54:36 PM

alienated: clowncar on fire: Cyclometh: The carboy of pumpkin ale I've had aging for a while laughs at you, subby.

Plastic or glass- I was wondering if I could use one of those plastic water jugs you find in the office,but covered with a blanket to keep out the light as a carboy. As the contents are not under pressure, I'm not seeing to many downsides to my scheme. Probably difficult to clean but maybe better than a 6 gallon utility pail?

Plastic is hard to sanitise.Glass is not. Use a new plastic one only once. Glass is heavy but its worth it.


I think you can aquire the plastic jugs for around 3 bucks each although I know a couple of people who can get them for au gratis. As they only contained fresh water, sterilization should not be to much of an issue (pickle buckets are free but don't bother). how much did the glass carboy (presumeably 6 gallon) set you back? I've seen $30 0r more as opposed to the white utility buckets for around 10.

Kinda interesting that a 5 gallon utility bucket is around 3 dollars but the price jumps quickly to 10 when its a 6 gallon bucket.
 
2012-11-17 04:58:42 PM

GAT_00: Doom MD: GAT_00: Ah, the wonders of a free market. Driving out competition because it makes a better product.

Actually it's government regulation that is allowing this to happen. The three tier system created at the end of prohibition is what is allowin this abuse. Check out Beer Wars where they go pretty at length on the subject.

Why is it there is always someone saying that an unregulated market acting like an unregulated market is somehow the government's fault? Just own up that this is exactly what Libertarian economics looks like for fark's sake.


Probably because it is a highly regulated market as been highlighted by myself and several posters here.
 
2012-11-17 04:59:24 PM

clowncar on fire: how much did the glass carboy (presumeably 6 gallon) set you back?


Well, I have a bunch of 5 gallons that I bought used for about 5 bucks each, and my 6 gallon ones were 20 bucks, also used. 30 is a decent price for a 6 gallon.
The buckets cost more as a : food grade- important and b: its an odd size.
And correct on pickle buckets- do not bother unless making pickled flavoured beer- plastic absorbs things and the amount of concentrated peroxide needed ( which is dangerous) is cost prohibitive from anyone doing it.
 
2012-11-17 04:59:31 PM

baorao: clowncar on fire: St_Francis_P: baorao: St_Francis_P: The good news is that i have everything I need- short of a 6 gallon pot and fresh grains and hops to have a go at it by myself. Can anyone recommend a good lager-like first timers recipe?

if you're truly a first timer, doing a full boil, make sure you have enough heat to boil 6 gallons of liquid.

You got the wrong name attached to that, but the advice is good.

Research says you are only boiling about 3 gallons for a five gallon batch- than adding the additional two gallons of boiling water to the wart before cooling it down. You just need the extra sized pot to avoid boiling over and preventing splashies when you stir or adding hops.

Yeah thats true. But that is only a partial boil. That can be done indoors on a range. I just assumed that when you said 6 gallon that you were doing a full, because 6 gallon pots are a bit harder to come by. 5 gallon stainless steel stock pots can be found pretty easily. I've never done a full boil fwiw.

Based on what you're planning, I'd check out Austin HomeBrew for an extract kit. They have a pretty good selection of "clone" recipes.


Thanks for the site, will be checking it out later. - meant 5 gallon pot earlier as the intent was brewing on the range as our HOA frowns on outdoor breweries.
 
2012-11-17 05:00:58 PM

St_Francis_P: Except I've talked to people who like Bud and Miller. They think it's perfectly good. I won't drink it either, but that's the reality of the market.


Possibly they haven't had anything else?

I brought a Bud-loving co-worker to the Flying Saucer (maybe 100 craft beers on tap, hundreds more in bottles) back in May and he's already earned his first plate!

Also, (back to the article) this is why I shop at Whole Foods. They have an entire aisle of local brews and microbrews - DFW has a 1/2 dozen great breweries. Further, my Whole Foods has around 20 of those on tap (growler available)! It is now fun to go "shopping" with my wife (I sit at the bar and sample 2 or 3 (or 4...OK 5), she gets a wine or beer and shops for an hour)
 
2012-11-17 05:02:19 PM
I would add- the last times that I did brew, I used 1/2 bbl kegs as fermenters- caustic soda soak and scrub, rinse, rinse rinse, test water, rinse, putting a couple of gallons of water in , place on burner, steam sanitise, cap with foil after- ready to go. Plus, Stainless doesnt crack if ones wort chiller is not working and the thing is in a water bath. YMMV.
 
2012-11-17 05:03:46 PM
Got a party to go to later, here's what I'm taking:

img687.imageshack.us 

Millstream Backroad Stout, Great River Redband Coffee Stout, Leinenkugel's Big Eddie Imperial Stout, Sierra Nevada Narwhal Imperial Stout, Bell's Expedition Stout, Founders Breakfast Stout, Surly Darkness

img94.imageshack.us 

Summit Unchained Old 152, Schell's Emerald Rye, Clown Shoes Tramp Stamp, Hinterland Luna Coffee Stout, Summit Winter ale, McNeils War Lord DIPA, Clown Shoes Hoppy Feet 1.5, Surly 5 (Pentagram), New Belgium Cocoa Mole

Not pictured: New Belgium Tart Lychee, Indeed Day Tripper and Midnight Ryder

I didn't pay a single penny for any of this, sometimes I really love my job.
 
2012-11-17 05:05:07 PM

cavedonkey: St_Francis_P: Except I've talked to people who like Bud and Miller. They think it's perfectly good. I won't drink it either, but that's the reality of the market.

Possibly they haven't had anything else?

I brought a Bud-loving co-worker to the Flying Saucer (maybe 100 craft beers on tap, hundreds more in bottles) back in May and he's already earned his first plate!

Also, (back to the article) this is why I shop at Whole Foods. They have an entire aisle of local brews and microbrews - DFW has a 1/2 dozen great breweries. Further, my Whole Foods has around 20 of those on tap (growler available)! It is now fun to go "shopping" with my wife (I sit at the bar and sample 2 or 3 (or 4...OK 5), she gets a wine or beer and shops for an hour)


You're right, sometimes they just haven't had other beer. That hasn't always been the case though. Some people just don't seem to like the flavor of barley and (good) hops, or at least don't consider it worth paying a premium.
 
2012-11-17 05:05:30 PM

sammyk: One thing I've noticed that I don't think the big boys have an answer for is the recent rise in beer houses. They have been popping up all over the place lately and the craft beers are the clear favorite. One of the houses here in Charlotte refuses to serve anything that is not a craft beer. I've talked top the owner and he says he will go out of business before he sells a Budweiser. The place is packed every night. If your in the area it's called VBGB. it's been highlighted on the show "drinking made easy". Fun place great beers and they always have some thing new to try.


I love VBGB. I need to go back again.
 
2012-11-17 05:07:27 PM

alienated: clowncar on fire: how much did the glass carboy (presumeably 6 gallon) set you back?

Well, I have a bunch of 5 gallons that I bought used for about 5 bucks each, and my 6 gallon ones were 20 bucks, also used. 30 is a decent price for a 6 gallon.
The buckets cost more as a : food grade- important and b: its an odd size.
And correct on pickle buckets- do not bother unless making pickled flavoured beer- plastic absorbs things and the amount of concentrated peroxide needed ( which is dangerous) is cost prohibitive from anyone doing it.


So you wouldn't recommend using the leftover 7 gallon containers from sterilant used in our hospital sterilizers. You can string them together and place a platform on them and make a serviceable party raft, install a cheap 6 inch ceiling type full range speaker and stuff the container with fiber filling making a decent but durable tailgating speaker, but I'm supposed to now believe they are not up to snuff when brewing beer?
 
2012-11-17 05:10:27 PM

sammyk: dickfreckle: Not sure if it still counts as a "craft" beer, but this is what we drink in New Orleans:



And because it's sweet, this is a good breakfast beer. Goes down easy:

Love them both. Only place I can get them in Charlotte is at a few of our cajun restaurants and world of beer


best beer by Abita is definitely Turbo Dog. Hands down great brown.
 
2012-11-17 05:14:21 PM

clowncar on fire: ...
The good news is that i have everything I need- short of a 6 gallon pot and fresh grains and hops to have a go at it by myself. Can anyone recommend a good lager-like first timers recipe? I want to go easy on the hops, maybe something with carmelized oats but not much more intricate than that. Definitely do not want to attempt a lager as I won't have much control over the lower temperatures nor timetable required to make a decent lager.


Try a Kolsch
 
2012-11-17 05:15:37 PM

clowncar on fire: So you wouldn't recommend using the leftover 7 gallon containers from sterilant used in our hospital sterilizers.


Well, I would use nothing plastic that has held anything but h2o, but thats just me.
 
2012-11-17 05:16:03 PM

alienated: I would add- the last times that I did brew, I used 1/2 bbl kegs as fermenters- caustic soda soak and scrub, rinse, rinse rinse, test water, rinse, putting a couple of gallons of water in , place on burner, steam sanitise, cap with foil after- ready to go. Plus, Stainless doesnt crack if ones wort chiller is not working and the thing is in a water bath. YMMV.


I was going to place my pot in sub room temp water (bath tup or sink) and then add bags of ice to cool it down. Do you think this would damage my pot? Would you recommend aluminum over stainless in this regard?
/now I know for sure that it's not the money but the paranoia that's been delaying my first batch
 
2012-11-17 05:16:56 PM
While Ohio has its faults, we have 5 distributors in Cincinnati, at least 4 micro/nano breweries, a Rock Bottom, and two large homebrew clubs. I have a keg of homebrewed KBS clone in the basement we brewed as a project and aged in a bourbon barrel. I'm not worried.
 
2012-11-17 05:19:11 PM

clowncar on fire: I was going to place my pot in sub room temp water (bath tup or sink) and then add bags of ice to cool it down. Do you think this would damage my pot? Would you recommend aluminum over stainless in this regard?
/now I know for sure that it's not the money but the paranoia that's been delaying my first batch


Stainless is the way to go.


More states are allowing self distribution of beer for smaller brewers. North Carolina within the last few years has allowed any brewery brewing less than 25k barrels a year to self distribute. This will help a lot with being able to get around the big distributors, but you still have to convince stores/bars to give you shelf space/taps.
 
2012-11-17 05:19:20 PM

clowncar on fire: /now I know for sure that it's not the money but the paranoia that's been delaying my first batch


You should know that few first batches are great. If it's drinkable (which usually means, it didn't spoil) you're doing fine. From there you can fine tune the recipes and your methods.
 
2012-11-17 05:20:05 PM

TravelinJones: While Ohio has its faults, we have 5 distributors in Cincinnati, at least 4 micro/nano breweries, a Rock Bottom, and two large homebrew clubs. I have a keg of homebrewed KBS clone in the basement we brewed as a project and aged in a bourbon barrel. I'm not worried.


TravelinJones: While Ohio has its faults, we have 5 distributors in Cincinnati, at least 4 micro/nano breweries, a Rock Bottom, and two large homebrew clubs. I have a keg of homebrewed KBS clone in the basement we brewed as a project and aged in a bourbon barrel. I'm not worried.


I forgot to mention 2 Jungle Jim's and there's always Party Source across the river.
 
2012-11-17 05:20:51 PM

St_Francis_P: You should know that few first batches are great. If it's drinkable (which usually means, it didn't spoil) you're doing fine. From there you can fine tune the recipes and your methods.


Just to expand on this, if you can boil water you can brew beer. Just jump in and do it clowncar.
 
2012-11-17 05:21:59 PM

alienated: clowncar on fire: So you wouldn't recommend using the leftover 7 gallon containers from sterilant used in our hospital sterilizers.

Well, I would use nothing plastic that has held anything but h2o, but thats just me.


As anyone who's ever tried Korean beer knows- Sterilant or chemical storage containers insure the best flavored beer.

I've heard nightmare tales of people attempting to use frosting and pastry filling buckets and ending up with "special odds" of which they only serve to their friends of discerning taste.
 
2012-11-17 05:23:33 PM

St_Francis_P: Meh. If the big boys buy up and ruin the craft brewers, I'll just start making my own again.


They'll just buy some politicians, and shut it down for either moral (Republican) or safety (Democrat) reasons.

Don't say it couldn't happen, because it already did once.
 
2012-11-17 05:24:11 PM
Anyone who drinks craft beer also tends to:

1. Own a TV but haven't turned it on in years
2. Ride a bike to work wearing spandex stretch trousers
3. Watch Japanese children's cartoons on a Mac
4. Appreciate the warmth of vinyl phonograph records
5. Read books at Starbucks
6. Claim to prefer girls with small breasts
7. Make snide remarks about Wal-Mart.
8. Walk past a smoker and force pretentious coughing noises
9. Take comfort in believing size doesn't matter
10. Feign disgust at the idea of eating a Big Mac
 
2012-11-17 05:24:58 PM
LeTrole is my surname.
 
2012-11-17 05:25:21 PM

theMightyRegeya: Don't say it couldn't happen, because it already did once.


And if it were to ever happen, just like last time people will say fark that and continue making it. So I say learn now while it isn't illegal!
 
2012-11-17 05:25:52 PM

L.D. Ablo: St_Francis_P: MaudlinMutantMollusk: YOU FOOL! YOU'VE SUMMONED THE APOSTROPHE POLICE!

It's become so common I don't even bother commenting on it. Why do so many people want to use an apostrophe with plurals?

It's not as bad as people who put apostrophes in the names of their children.


blog.zap2it.com
 
2012-11-17 05:26:38 PM

sammyk: dickfreckle: Not sure if it still counts as a "craft" beer, but this is what we drink in New Orleans:



And because it's sweet, this is a good breakfast beer. Goes down easy:

Love them both. Only place I can get them in Charlotte is at a few of our cajun restaurants and world of beer


There are tons of places in Charlotte that carry Abita beers. Lowes foods, the Common Market, Total wine, etc...
 
2012-11-17 05:32:55 PM

letrole: Anyone who drinks craft beer also tends to:

1. Own a TV but haven't turned it on in years
2. Ride a bike to work wearing spandex stretch trousers
3. Watch Japanese children's cartoons on a Mac
4. Appreciate the warmth of vinyl phonograph records
5. Read books at Starbucks
6. Claim to prefer girls with small breasts
7. Make snide remarks about Wal-Mart.
8. Walk past a smoker and force pretentious coughing noises
9. Take comfort in believing size doesn't matter
10. Feign disgust at the idea of eating a Big Mac


1. Not true. Turn it on to update the Blu-Ray player, which is only ever used to play CD or SACDs.
2. Uh...no.
3. No. Just no.
4. Vinyl is fine for other people. I suffered with the noise, distortion, limited bandwidth and dynamic range for years, now it's someone else's turn.
5. No.
6. Not just no, hell no.
7. Sure.
8. No. They can poison themselves all they like without my help.
9. Never worried about it.
10. Yeah. Yet, once a year, need it or not, I eat one. 

/We have to stop meeting this way.
 
2012-11-17 05:33:38 PM

Except I've talked to people who like Bud and Miller. They think it's perfectly good. I won't drink it either, but that's the reality of the market.


I love Keystone Light and Rainer on the low end, drink it 80% of the time. I get Inversion IPA other times and yeah it generally tastes better but an ice cold Rainer ain't bad and it's nearly half the price. 6x16 oz @ 4.99 for low end and 6x12 @ 7.99 for high end.

At the end of the day it's not bad beer, not as far as I'm concerned because really it's the alcohol and subsequent buzz I'm after. Everything else is just icing.
 
2012-11-17 05:34:29 PM

letrole: Anyone who drinks craft beer also tends to:

1. Own a TV but haven't turned it on in years - nope (dumped cable and survive on alternative resources though)
2. Ride a bike to work wearing spandex stretch trousers- nope
3. Watch Japanese children's cartoons on a Mac- nope
4. Appreciate the warmth of vinyl phonograph records- yes but only with an analog amp and full range speakers
5. Read books at Starbucks- nope. Whats a Starbucks?
6. Claim to prefer girls with small breasts- Yup. Big boobies were fine on the younguns but there's a price to pay down the road.
7. Make snide remarks about Wal-Mart. - nope. Nearest affordable store in this area next to Costco- nothing bad to say at all. Amusing after midnight
8. Walk past a smoker and force pretentious coughing noises- nope. your lungs not mine.
9. Take comfort in believing size doesn't matter- yup, whether its's my dick or my car, it's not what you have but how it's used.
10. Feign disgust at the idea of eating a Big Mac

Got me there- prefer those chicken specialty sandwiches or the economy of the two cheeseburger meal

Did I win anything?
 
2012-11-17 05:36:37 PM
I have never liked the taste of beer. I have tried all sorts, from pale ale to crap beer to lager to dark, dark brews. The bitterness just isn't palatable to me. However, I love Lambic (raspberry or cherry, but the peach and apple aren't bad). I use Lambic to make berry reductions for my cheesecake and bundt cakes. Served with a glass of Lambic, of course.

It is imported from Belgium.. it is technically a beer, as I understand the brewing process, but you could argue whether or not it is one. Either way, it is tasty.
 
2012-11-17 05:37:47 PM

StoPPeRmobile: L.D. Ablo: St_Francis_P: MaudlinMutantMollusk: YOU FOOL! YOU'VE SUMMONED THE APOSTROPHE POLICE!

It's become so common I don't even bother commenting on it. Why do so many people want to use an apostrophe with plurals?

It's not as bad as people who put apostrophes in the names of their children.

[blog.zap2it.com image 345x425]


That's a semicolon, moran.
 
2012-11-17 05:40:43 PM
Oh no. I'll no longer be able to buy yet another "EXTREME!!!!" IPA. Whatever shall I do?
 
2012-11-17 05:42:37 PM
7. Make snide remarks about Wal-Mart. I keep my snobby opinion to myself, especially around the kids as I don't want a houseful of elitists taht above life's essentials. Plan to introduce elitism only after I meet their first boyfriend or two.
 
2012-11-17 05:42:55 PM

Anastacya: I have never liked the taste of beer. I have tried all sorts, from pale ale to crap beer to lager to dark, dark brews. The bitterness just isn't palatable to me. However, I love Lambic (raspberry or cherry, but the peach and apple aren't bad). I use Lambic to make berry reductions for my cheesecake and bundt cakes. Served with a glass of Lambic, of course.

It is imported from Belgium.. it is technically a beer, as I understand the brewing process, but you could argue whether or not it is one. Either way, it is tasty.


It's definitely beer. As I understand it though, it's difficult to brew at home. If you're looking for something to brew at home, perhaps melomel would work for you:

Melomel FAQ
 
2012-11-17 05:44:04 PM
low prices for alcohol lead to excessive drunkenness

LOLwut?
 
2012-11-17 05:44:39 PM

Tchernobog: sammyk: dickfreckle: Not sure if it still counts as a "craft" beer, but this is what we drink in New Orleans:



And because it's sweet, this is a good breakfast beer. Goes down easy:

Love them both. Only place I can get them in Charlotte is at a few of our cajun restaurants and world of beer

There are tons of places in Charlotte that carry Abita beers. Lowes foods, the Common Market, Total wine, etc...


Cool. Haven't been looking for it lately. Current beer crush is Blue Point Toasted Lager. It's my beer of choice at the Cajun Queen though. Mmmmmmm....need to go again soon.
 
2012-11-17 05:47:04 PM
If you've never been to total wine you need to go. 1,000+ beers available. Wife gets pissed whenever when visit my parents in Charlotte, I never walk out of there for less than a hundred bucks.
 
2012-11-17 05:47:29 PM

St_Francis_P: It's definitely beer. As I understand it though, it's difficult to brew at home. If you're looking for something to brew at home, perhaps melomel would work for you:

Melomel FAQ


Lambics aren't particularly difficult to make. They do require some aging, and the main difficulty is keeping all the equipment segregated from your main brewing equipment. You use special strains of bacteria and yeast as opposed to good old Saccharomyces Ceriviseae (brewer's yeast.) If one is interested purely in lambics, it really wouldn't be too hard to get into creating them yourself. The pain in the ass is keeping it separate from your other equipment, and making sure none of your normal beers are contaminated.
 
2012-11-17 05:48:04 PM

fusillade762: low prices for alcohol lead to excessive drunkenness

LOLwut?


Not by your fifth one- by then, everyone gets a round of whatever they're drinking, regardless of the cost
 
2012-11-17 05:49:10 PM

bonkmeist: St_Francis_P: It's definitely beer. As I understand it though, it's difficult to brew at home. If you're looking for something to brew at home, perhaps melomel would work for you:

Melomel FAQ

Lambics aren't particularly difficult to make. They do require some aging, and the main difficulty is keeping all the equipment segregated from your main brewing equipment. You use special strains of bacteria and yeast as opposed to good old Saccharomyces Ceriviseae (brewer's yeast.) If one is interested purely in lambics, it really wouldn't be too hard to get into creating them yourself. The pain in the ass is keeping it separate from your other equipment, and making sure none of your normal beers are contaminated.


Yeah, I knew that specific bacteria are required. I guess they're available over the internet these days.
 
2012-11-17 05:51:39 PM

GAT_00: Ah, the wonders of a free market. Driving out competition because it makes a better product.


The big players just change the rules from competition for market share to competition for survival. Remember, the free market isn't free unless the big dog gets to eat first and eat most.
 
2012-11-17 05:53:41 PM

i upped my meds-up yours: GAT_00: Ah, the wonders of a free market. Driving out competition because it makes a better product.

The big players just change the rules from competition for market share to competition for survival. Remember, the free market isn't free unless the big dog gets to eat first and eat most.


Big dogs need food to get big. Don't feed them.
 
2012-11-17 05:54:25 PM

letrole: 10. Feign disgust at the idea of eating a Big Mac

Feign

disgust?

Oh, it's le Trôle.
 
2012-11-17 06:00:16 PM

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: letrole: 10. Feign disgust at the idea of eating a Big Mac

Feign disgust?

Oh, it's le Trôle.


Don't let the name fool you...oh, who am I kidding.
 
2012-11-17 06:04:08 PM

clowncar on fire: i upped my meds-up yours: GAT_00: Ah, the wonders of a free market. Driving out competition because it makes a better product.

The big players just change the rules from competition for market share to competition for survival. Remember, the free market isn't free unless the big dog gets to eat first and eat most.

Big dogs need food to get big. Don't feed them.


You have to, because they underprice anyone smaller to make sure you can't afford to buy anywhere else.
 
2012-11-17 06:07:39 PM
I love the craft beer movement, but decided to brew my own exclusively for about 5 years. Then the bastards where I work upped our hours 10 per week, and I have little energy to devote to even brewing...but I've become spoiled by the savings in $$.

So, I'm now on a mission to identify the Best Beers for a Buck. I think anybody can probably make a decent beer at the $10/sixer price point. Who can do it near $6 or $7? It doesn't have to be as good as Dogfish Head 90 Min IPA, but has to taste discernibly better than NASCAR beers. I want some viscosity and a good, sessionable taste.

So far, I've been quite pleased with what I've found at that price point. Point (Steven's Point) makes good stuff, especially their Pale Ale. The only one I didn't care for was their "Nude Beach." The Henry Weinhard's line is decent for a buck, too. I know...one of the NASCAR companies owns them now, but I won't hold that against them too much. They weren't owned by Satan not too long ago.

I'm currently enjoying two different six packs of Atwater's out of Detroit that I got on sale for around $1.09 a can. There was one case of their "Dirty Blonde" ale and I cracked that open first. I think I'm not a fan of that style (see "Nude Beach" above), but it's okay. Looking forward to their lager tonight around the campfire, and will pick up their session IPA in cans the next time I'm at the store.

I did try one selection at $5/six that I nearly spit out. Pig's Eye Pilsner. Yuck!! Sickly sweet with a cheap, metallic aftertaste. Avoid.
 
2012-11-17 06:20:03 PM

Dead for Tax Reasons: Dave and his national accounts team walked me through a deck showing that chains that over-SKU with crafts end up selling less beer and making less profit than chains that protect their domestic premium space.

I think their research is SKU'ed


No, think about it:

You goto "the beer barn" in milford, pa, which has about a 1000 square foot retail space, and all they really sell is coorsmillerbud. You want to pick up a 30 rack or 4 for your hunting camp, that's where you go.

Or there's "pike beverage" over in dingmans ferry, which has 3 times the space and 30 times the selection. If you want a few two-fours of something decent for your bonfire, you'll go there.

Yes, they do about the same amount of business. But nobody is forcing pike beverage to carry that variety. They do it because that's what the owner wants
 
2012-11-17 06:29:43 PM

clowncar on fire: alienated: I would add- the last times that I did brew, I used 1/2 bbl kegs as fermenters- caustic soda soak and scrub, rinse, rinse rinse, test water, rinse, putting a couple of gallons of water in , place on burner, steam sanitise, cap with foil after- ready to go. Plus, Stainless doesnt crack if ones wort chiller is not working and the thing is in a water bath. YMMV.

I was going to place my pot in sub room temp water (bath tup or sink) and then add bags of ice to cool it down. Do you think this would damage my pot? Would you recommend aluminum over stainless in this regard?
/now I know for sure that it's not the money but the paranoia that's been delaying my first batch


Make mistakes; you'll be fine. The worst thing that will happen is you'll make not-tasty beer. It will still be beer, and taste mostly OK. Sanitation is the root cause of most flavor accidents. You cannot over-sanitize.

Homebrew stores sell kits. I'd go with ale as a first attempt, because the ferm temp is a range compatible with 'room temperature' for most people. California Common is forgiving, too, and so are porters. Go have fun.
 
2012-11-17 06:33:10 PM

halfof33: The ironic thing is that the people who are claiming that the big brewers don't make a quality product are wrong.

American light lager is difficult to make, and the consistency and freshness is amazing.

That being said, I believe that A-B is evil.


I think you're confusing consistency with quality. They make shiatty beer on a massive scale, with remarkable consistency. I admire the consistency, but it's still not a quality beer
 
2012-11-17 06:52:02 PM

baorao: DoctorCal: Enemabag Jones: in many states there are two beer distributors

Really? Which states?

If what I learned from Beer Wars is accurate, when prohibition ended they made all sorts of goofy laws to control the sale of alcohol. So the states were each divided into "zones" and each zone was allowed a specific number (around 3) distributors. And so the common pattern in each zone is one for Annheuser-Busch, one for SABMiller and one for Coors and whatever microbrewers that can afford to pay for the leftover space on their distribution truck.

It wouldn't surprise me to find out that a distribution conglomerate was in control of a piece of multiple zones in a state.


ABC varies state to state depending on the states regulations.

maryland, for example is a nice and weird one... each county in maryland has it's own separate ABC board and groups of regulations pertaining to each county and each county more or less handles distribution. DC is similar.

as to each ZONE? you will usually have two main distributors dealing with the big three. AB folks tend to be singular to themselves, and the other guys handle Miller and coors. and then you might have a third, much smaller guy that handles smaller imports and specialty and craft beers.
AB distributes will most likely also carry more major brand Craft lines. Around here, none of the craft distributors will deal with the Miller/Coors houses.


As for everything else regarding the article.. and I release this post from what I quoted to lead it in....


first off... what is blue pale? is this a new one I'm not familiar with? or did the author of the article meen Blue moon? also, the craft segment is commanding 12% of the market now, not 6%

and me, being in the biz am not worried about the big guys.. they will be fine, and they are adapting very well. what I 'm seeing is an explosion on the market of craft beer.
two breweries opened up here in town in the last week alone. it's great for the consumer, and competition is always good to keep folks on their toes.

the problem is though... how many little breweries can the market support before they start eating themselves? How many of these little guys are just people that are more focused on marketing and trying to make a buck?

during the last craft bubble, and I was there for it, the market was flush with thousands of mediocre beers with fancy names. they competed with each other for attention and shelf space and ultimately the market decided, y'all suck, and folks started drinking PBR again.

a lot of good breweries got lost in all the noise. and failed because of it. not enough available shelf space, and having to compete with lack luster beer that was louder on the shelf.

back when the brewery I work for made its first Big expansion, going from a 10bbl pilot house to a 30bbl pilot house, it was by being able to purchase a bunch of equipment cheap from fire sales of failed breweries from the last bubble, our brew house is a Frankenstein' monster of potato engineering, but it works, and works well. back then, you really couldn't buy these sized systems out of a catalog. now you can. back then, we were re-purposing dairy equipment, now it's all specialized and the costs are commiserate.

and large distro houses are willing to look at you and pay attention. and help you help then instead of seeing you as some upstart threat to competition.

but still, I can't help but see that the big guys are sitting back and watching us eat ourselves.

Ive personally have seen the change of attitude.. and I con only compare it to a mosh pit.... once upon a time, it was all about having a good raucous time. and if you fell down in the pit, folks would pick you up and throw you back in there.. but nowadays, if you fall down, they seem to be just as happy to start kicking you while you are flailing on the floor.

alright... made my big obervational post.. have fun Folks.
 
2012-11-17 06:54:38 PM
Damn. And here I am, down to my last case of Billy Beer.
 
2012-11-17 06:56:58 PM

WhippingBoy: Oh no. I'll no longer be able to buy yet another "EXTREME!!!!" IPA. Whatever shall I do?


I've never heard of an Extreme IPA and i'm a pretty big craft beer fan.
I guess maybe a Triple IPA? Which there aren't really that many being made because they're not that popular?

There's a lot more to craft beer than hops, kid.
 
2012-11-17 06:58:51 PM
I sure hope the craft beer industry doesn't experience what the home video game industry did in 1984. Also, Golf Disc manufacturers...
 
2012-11-17 07:06:30 PM

Ow My Balls: I sure hope the craft beer industry doesn't experience what the home video game industry did in 1984. Also, Golf Disc manufacturers...


as per my post, we did it before, and we may be working on it again. but this time around, we have a more educated public. but we could very well be working on popping another bubble.

but once again.. it will work to seperate the wheat from the chaff.
 
2012-11-17 07:20:20 PM
If you're a beer snob, this article should be enough to make you hopping mad.
 
2012-11-17 07:22:23 PM
I just got 6 strangers hooked on Founder's IPA so f--k off Miller and InBev.

/sharing table at a sports bar after the game
//goddamn I love Founder's
///newhollandbrew.com
 
2012-11-17 07:23:17 PM

cyberspacedout: If you're a beer snob, this article should be enough to make you hopping mad.


i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-11-17 07:25:26 PM
Got my Mr Beer keg on order. Going to start small. May move to the double fermentation system once I get the hang of it. I predict that South Florida will not be kind to my temperature control attempts, so we'll see how long it lasts.
 
2012-11-17 07:29:52 PM

xynix: Two companies dominating a beverage industry? Unheard of!

[www.logoblog.org image 187x150]
[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x155]


In other frightening news, AmBev is angling for a 2013-2014 buyout of Pepsi's beverage division, selling the snack division (Frito-Lay) off.
 
2012-11-17 08:50:38 PM
Coors Banquet is a good cheap beer. I don't care what y'all think.
 
2012-11-17 09:18:31 PM

foxyshadis: xynix: Two companies dominating a beverage industry? Unheard of!

[www.logoblog.org image 187x150]
[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x155]

In other frightening news, AmBev is angling for a 2013-2014 buyout of Pepsi's beverage division, selling the snack division (Frito-Lay) off.


And PBR has been lying in wait to buy up the Hostess names for two years now.

sprgrss: Coors Banquet is a good cheap beer. I don't care what y'all think.


I don't think ill of you for liking it. it is what it is and as long as you like it, that's the important thing.

a much wiser man than i, a legend in the craft beer industry, when asked "what's the best beer in the world right now" he turned to the guy asking the question and said quite bluntly " the best beer in the world sir, is the one that's in my hand, and it will stay that way until, I get another beer. "


so, while some may look down on you for doing, or saying so, As long as you are enjoying that beer, for all the reasons you want to enjoy it, that beer, right there, is the best beer in the world.
 
2012-11-17 09:25:24 PM

Ow My Balls:

So, I'm now on a mission to identify the Best Beers for a Buck. I think anybody can probably make a decent beer at the $10/sixer price point. Who can do it near $6 or $7? It doesn't have to be as good as Dogfish Head 90 Min IPA, but has to taste discernibly better than NASCAR beers. I want some viscosity and a good, sessionable taste.

So far, I've been quite pleased with what I've found at that price point. Point (Steven's Point) makes good stuff, especially their Pale Ale. The only one I didn't care for was their "Nude Beach." The Henry Weinhard's line is decent for a buck, too. I know...one of the NASCAR companies owns them now, but I won't hold that against them too much. They weren't owned by Satan not too long ago.


Like you said, $10/6 pack is the range where everything starts to get good, and is a wonderful area to experiment around in. When I am feeling thrifty, or buying for a large group, Sierra Nevada has a solid selection. I know it's no longer acceptable to like IPAs on Fark, but I like their Torpedo Ale. Also, check out Costco, if you have one in your area. They carry a small selection of good beers. In San Diego, I can get a case of Stone's IPA there for $25, which is great considering its usually $9 for six, even that close to where it is brewed.

Other than that, just look around for local breweries. You will save by not having to pay for it to be shipped across the country. I'm in Virginia for a couple of weeks for work, and have fallen in love with O'Connor brewery's black IPA, which is brewed right here in Norfolk. If I tried to get Stone out here, I'd be paying through the nose.
 
2012-11-17 09:28:12 PM

St_Francis_P: bonkmeist: St_Francis_P: It's definitely beer. As I understand it though, it's difficult to brew at home. If you're looking for something to brew at home, perhaps melomel would work for you:

Melomel FAQ

Lambics aren't particularly difficult to make. They do require some aging, and the main difficulty is keeping all the equipment segregated from your main brewing equipment. You use special strains of bacteria and yeast as opposed to good old Saccharomyces Ceriviseae (brewer's yeast.) If one is interested purely in lambics, it really wouldn't be too hard to get into creating them yourself. The pain in the ass is keeping it separate from your other equipment, and making sure none of your normal beers are contaminated.

Yeah, I knew that specific bacteria are required. I guess they're available over the internet these days.


Yeast is not a bacteria. Just saying. My town (of 90,000) has two small breweries. Both are also restaurants. As long as there are people who like food and beer there are people who will make beer and sell it. So I'm not worried...
 
2012-11-17 09:41:50 PM

Cerebral Knievel: And PBR has been lying in wait to buy up the Hostess names for two years now.


You'd think RJR or Phillip Morris would be a better fit, assuming those companies are going to get into the mass-market weed business soon.
 
BBH
2012-11-17 10:00:00 PM
I think InBev bought out Goose Island a few years back. They haven't screwed up Honkers Ale or 312. (yet?)
 
2012-11-17 10:16:08 PM

symbolset: So brew your own. Malted barley, yeast, water. No biggie.


Started that hobby when I turned 40. Best hobby ever.

Holiday Porter fermenting in the basement as I type.
 
2012-11-17 10:18:59 PM

foxyshadis: Cerebral Knievel: And PBR has been lying in wait to buy up the Hostess names for two years now.

You'd think RJR or Phillip Morris would be a better fit, assuming those companies are going to get into the mass-market weed business soon.


Naw PBR i all about "nostalgia brands" it's what they do... they own the copyrights for almost every single large regional brewery that was ever out there that any one may know.. and the push out the name to those localities. the beer is pretty much all rebranded miller highlife, but there ya go.
PBR only wants the name, and Hostess has an great name brand recognition.. I understand you are trying to make a twinkies are just as bad as cigarets, and pot munchies joke, and I will laugh right beside you on that one..

actually, thought, if you want to get down to the nitty gritty of it.. Philip Morris is the parent company of altria, which is the parent company of Kraft foods, of which, is the parent company of Nabisco.. I think I got all the "begets" right, If I messed any of that up , I'll go back and double check my book of Mormon.


in that regard.. I'm pretty damn surprised that Nabisco wasn't all on that shiat, but nope... PBR..waiting for the management to go fuggit and throw the labor and the unions to the curb. run in, snatch up the names, and continue production on the core brands.
 
2012-11-17 10:50:40 PM

alienated: clowncar on fire: Cyclometh: The carboy of pumpkin ale I've had aging for a while laughs at you, subby.

Plastic or glass- I was wondering if I could use one of those plastic water jugs you find in the office,but covered with a blanket to keep out the light as a carboy. As the contents are not under pressure, I'm not seeing to many downsides to my scheme. Probably difficult to clean but maybe better than a 6 gallon utility pail?

Plastic is hard to sanitise.Glass is not. Use a new plastic one only once. Glass is heavy but its worth it.


Freakish....I use plastic carboys that are over ten years old all the time. I can count on one hand the numbers of infections I've had. I typically average about two batches a month and have been brewing for more than ten years.

I do follow a strong regimen of cleaning them though; 24 hours before they get Oxy-Clean, five hours before they get PBW, and then when it's time to put wort in them I spritz with use Star-San. After they've been used I hit it with Oxy-Clean again for a few hours. I also only ever use a sponge and not a scrub brush.

Another major key is not to store them stacked into one another. I hang mine from the rafters when they're not in use.

Glass is heavy, but it's also brittle. I watched one detonate that was placed behind a door. Someone came barging in and the thing just blew out.

Lots of people get the job done with plastic. I'm one of them.
 
2012-11-17 11:12:23 PM
Plastic carboys are fine, back in my homebrewing days, I used both glass and plastic..

big concern though... don't use anything harshly aprasive to clean them.. if you scratch them, or anything for that matter, you have a contamination point, bacteria can hide and grow in a scratch.

you gotta rely on chemical cleaning at that point. a weak/ medium solution of sodium hydroxide, or tri-sodium phosphate to break down the biologics, rinse, then use an acid to neutralize the caustic and sanitize the vessel.

the tri-so will rinse clean with just water, and can be had in the hardware stores painting aisle..


but plastic is just fine, as long as you don't scratch it.
 
2012-11-17 11:56:14 PM

Absurdity: I can get a case of Stone's IPA there for $25,


Like!!
 
2012-11-17 11:57:46 PM

baorao: DoctorCal: Enemabag Jones: in many states there are two beer distributors

Really? Which states?

If what I learned from Beer Wars is accurate, when prohibition ended they made all sorts of goofy laws to control the sale of alcohol. So the states were each divided into "zones" and each zone was allowed a specific number (around 3) distributors. And so the common pattern in each zone is one for Annheuser-Busch, one for SABMiller and one for Coors and whatever microbrewers that can afford to pay for the leftover space on their distribution truck.

It wouldn't surprise me to find out that a distribution congolmerate was in control of a piece of multiple zones in a state.



Who do you think those "distributors" were? Who was already in business? They gave the mob a middleman's spot and there they still sit, taking a cut for nothing.
 
2012-11-18 12:29:40 AM
I find shock top to be a pretty darn good hefeweizen. I didn't know that they are a craft knock-off though...
 
2012-11-18 12:37:57 AM

GORDON: symbolset: So brew your own. Malted barley, yeast, water. No biggie.

Started that hobby when I turned 40. Best hobby ever.

Holiday Porter fermenting in the basement as I type.


You failed to notice that I forgot the hops. Don't forget the hops.
 
2012-11-18 01:03:08 AM

Ow My Balls: Absurdity: I can get a case of Stone's IPA there for $25,

Like!!


It is nice, but I do want to emphasize that is at the Dan Diego area Costcos. (Near the Stone brewery) I haven't been to Costcos in other towns, but I would think that would have a good (if limited) selection of local brews for a good price.
 
2012-11-18 01:14:30 AM

Absurdity: Costcos... good (if limited) selection of local brews for a good price.


This is true.

Also, beer plug:

  www.funkstrong.com
 
2012-11-18 01:18:32 AM

letrole: Anyone who drinks craft beer also tends to:

1. Own a TV but haven't turned it on in years
2. Ride a bike to work wearing spandex stretch trousers
3. Watch Japanese children's cartoons on a Mac
4. Appreciate the warmth of vinyl phonograph records
5. Read books at Starbucks
6. Claim to prefer girls with small breasts
7. Make snide remarks about Wal-Mart.
8. Walk past a smoker and force pretentious coughing noises
9. Take comfort in believing size doesn't matter
10. Feign disgust at the idea of eating a Big Mac


1. Haven't had cable since 2002, though I do use a 40in 1080p LCD as a computer monitor
2. Wear jeans, change over when I get to work(yes, I ride to work)
3. Not an anime fan,and I haven't liked a Apple product since the 80's
4. couldn't care less
5. go there once a year,maybe
6. Claim to prefer girls with small breasts athletic build and hourglass figure, breasts tend to be small but perky in that event
7. shop at WalMart
8. have he urge to light up every time I see a "no smoking" sign, thinking of taking up a pipe
9. of all the insecurities I've ever had in my life, that's not one of them
10. real disgust at the idea of eating a McDonalds at all. Have youu seen the youtube video of the happymeal that sat unmolded on the coffee table for six months?
 
2012-11-18 01:21:19 AM
Oh yeah, get rid of the three tier system. It harms craft beer as it was supposed to help.
 
2012-11-18 03:31:01 AM

spidermilk: St_Francis_P: bonkmeist: St_Francis_P: It's definitely beer. As I understand it though, it's difficult to brew at home. If you're looking for something to brew at home, perhaps melomel would work for you:

Melomel FAQ

Lambics aren't particularly difficult to make. They do require some aging, and the main difficulty is keeping all the equipment segregated from your main brewing equipment. You use special strains of bacteria and yeast as opposed to good old Saccharomyces Ceriviseae (brewer's yeast.) If one is interested purely in lambics, it really wouldn't be too hard to get into creating them yourself. The pain in the ass is keeping it separate from your other equipment, and making sure none of your normal beers are contaminated.

Yeah, I knew that specific bacteria are required. I guess they're available over the internet these days.

Yeast is not a bacteria. Just saying. My town (of 90,000) has two small breweries. Both are also restaurants. As long as there are people who like food and beer there are people who will make beer and sell it. So I'm not worried...


Why are you pointing out the obvious? No, yeast is not bacteria. Yes, lambics are made with yeast AND bacteria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambic
 
2012-11-18 03:40:32 AM

BLEMDAR: sammyk: dickfreckle: Not sure if it still counts as a "craft" beer, but this is what we drink in New Orleans:



And because it's sweet, this is a good breakfast beer. Goes down easy:

Love them both. Only place I can get them in Charlotte is at a few of our cajun restaurants and world of beer

best beer by Abita is definitely Turbo Dog. Hands down great brown.


It's approaching wintertime, by Southern standards at least, and that's when I start hitting the darker beers. TurboDog is pretty goddamn awesome, but it's not a real stout. However, I like telling local or statewide companies to shut up and take my money, so that's probably how I'll be drunk at Christmas.
 
2012-11-18 03:57:22 AM

St_Francis_P: letrole: Anyone who drinks craft beer also tends to:

1. Own a TV but haven't turned it on in years
2. Ride a bike to work wearing spandex stretch trousers
3. Watch Japanese children's cartoons on a Mac
4. Appreciate the warmth of vinyl phonograph records
5. Read books at Starbucks
6. Claim to prefer girls with small breasts
7. Make snide remarks about Wal-Mart.
8. Walk past a smoker and force pretentious coughing noises
9. Take comfort in believing size doesn't matter
10. Feign disgust at the idea of eating a Big Mac

1. Not true. Turn it on to update the Blu-Ray player, which is only ever used to play CD or SACDs.
2. Uh...no.
3. No. Just no.
4. Vinyl is fine for other people. I suffered with the noise, distortion, limited bandwidth and dynamic range for years, now it's someone else's turn.
5. No.
6. Not just no, hell no.
7. Sure.
8. No. They can poison themselves all they like without my help.
9. Never worried about it.
10. Yeah. Yet, once a year, need it or not, I eat one. 

/We have to stop meeting this way.


I typically only snip quotes so as not to bother mobile or laptop readers having to constantly scroll, but this exchange was hilarious and I'm leaving it all here.

We were most likely separated at birth.
 
2012-11-18 06:15:01 AM
Craft beers have their fans, including myself, but the market prefers easy-drinking, uncomplicated beers that go well with sports and junk food.

There's nothing necessarily wrong with that in a free market. The Camry, for example, is popular but as an auto enthusiast I wouldn't be caught dead in one.
 
2012-11-18 07:34:46 AM

spidermilk: St_Francis_P: bonkmeist: St_Francis_P: It's definitely beer. As I understand it though, it's difficult to brew at home. If you're looking for something to brew at home, perhaps melomel would work for you:

Melomel FAQ

Lambics aren't particularly difficult to make. They do require some aging, and the main difficulty is keeping all the equipment segregated from your main brewing equipment. You use special strains of bacteria and yeast as opposed to good old Saccharomyces Ceriviseae (brewer's yeast.) If one is interested purely in lambics, it really wouldn't be too hard to get into creating them yourself. The pain in the ass is keeping it separate from your other equipment, and making sure none of your normal beers are contaminated.

Yeah, I knew that specific bacteria are required. I guess they're available over the internet these days.

Yeast is not a bacteria. Just saying. My town (of 90,000) has two small breweries. Both are also restaurants. As long as there are people who like food and beer there are people who will make beer and sell it. So I'm not worried...


Lambic is a Belgian style that is brewed by exposing the wort to the night air, which allows certain bacteria to seed the beer, as well as wild yeast.

Lambic
 
2012-11-18 02:19:49 PM

letrole: Anyone who drinks craft beer also tends to:

1. Own a TV but haven't turned it on in years
2. Ride a bike to work wearing spandex stretch trousers
3. Watch Japanese children's cartoons on a Mac
4. Appreciate the warmth of vinyl phonograph records
5. Read books at Starbucks
6. Claim to prefer girls with small breasts
7. Make snide remarks about Wal-Mart.
8. Walk past a smoker and force pretentious coughing noises
9. Take comfort in believing size doesn't matter
10. Feign disgust at the idea of eating a Big Mac


I'll bite,

1. own 5, 3 used as PC monitors everyday, other 2 are on at least once a day
2. don't even own a bike
3.never could stand Japanese cartoons or own anything Apple except the iPhone
4. own 0 records, 0 record players
5. haven't been in a Starbucks in over 5 years, never read a book at one
6. got me.
7. got me again
8. I smoke
9. size always matters... unless you're referring to my junk
10. disgusted at the idea of ANY fast food joints... Big Macs are damn good though, but again... I stopped fast food years ago

 
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