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(Business Insider)   Remember that episode of Mad Men where 8 of the guys quit on the same day and Don Draper sues them because he thinks they purposely left to start a new company in order to steal the $700M Kellogg's account?   (businessinsider.com ) divider line 48
    More: Amusing, Leo Burnett, startup company, Kellogg's  
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6064 clicks; posted to Business » on 17 Nov 2012 at 9:35 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-17 09:42:58 AM  
No.
 
2012-11-17 09:44:55 AM  
That was a pretty good finale but the whole show's been on sort of a meandering country drive ever since, except for the part about Lane hanging around the office.
 
2012-11-17 09:51:00 AM  

BumpInTheNight: That was a pretty good finale but the whole show's been on sort of a meandering country drive ever since, except for the part about Lane hanging around the office.


I disagree last season was pretty good I thought

Lane beating the snot out of Pete has to be my all time favorite Mad Men moment.
 
2012-11-17 10:06:42 AM  

BumpInTheNight: That was a pretty good finale but the whole show's been on sort of a meandering country drive ever since, except for the part about Lane hanging around the office.


The earlier scene with Lane in the Jag was also really well done. It was almost funny.

The high point of the series for me will be the John Deere account. Definitely a WTF moment.
 
2012-11-17 10:20:31 AM  
If you have a $710M account that is dependent on one person knowing their system, that is ridiculous.
 
2012-11-17 10:21:28 AM  
Looks like Leo Burnett just learned a lesson about how clients are usually more tied to the PEOPLE rather than the COMPANY
If the company fails to keep those people happy, and they're not being paid what they feel they deserve, then they might very well leave.
This is capitalism, boys... you know the game.
(Though I'm sure this "compensation based on personal performance" is a foreign concept to unionized workers)
 
2012-11-17 10:21:53 AM  
So you're only allowed to quit a job so long as other people don't quit?
 
2012-11-17 10:36:09 AM  
Unless they are violating some sort of non compete clause in their contract good luck suing them buddy.
 
2012-11-17 10:41:36 AM  

GoldDude: Looks like Leo Burnett just learned a lesson about how clients are usually more tied to the PEOPLE rather than the COMPANY
If the company fails to keep those people happy, and they're not being paid what they feel they deserve, then they might very well leave.
This is capitalism, boys... you know the game.
(Though I'm sure this "compensation based on personal performance" is a foreign concept to unionized workers)


I work with a guy who started his career in union shops. He is blown away when younger, more talented people who've been at the company for less time than him are promoted past him.

On your first note, resignations at my company tend to come after the new year. It'll be interesting what kind of turnover we'll have. I expect it to be above average.
 
2012-11-17 11:35:48 AM  

Sasquach: So you're only allowed to quit a job so long as other people don't quit?


Nope.

You're not allowed to quit if the company needs you - more than you need them.

Even if they treated you as dirt when you were worth gold.
 
2012-11-17 11:51:02 AM  

Sasquach: So you're only allowed to quit a job so long as other people don't quit?


They signed non-competition contracts.
 
2012-11-17 12:14:54 PM  

GoldDude: Looks like Leo Burnett just learned a lesson about how clients are usually more tied to the PEOPLE rather than the COMPANY
If the company fails to keep those people happy, and they're not being paid what they feel they deserve, then they might very well leave.
This is capitalism, boys... you know the game.
(Though I'm sure this "compensation based on personal performance" is a foreign concept to unionized workers)


So you are saying Apple stock will crash now?
 
2012-11-17 12:40:47 PM  

justinguarini4ever: If you have a $710M account that is dependent on one person knowing their system, that is ridiculous.


The $710 isn't agency revenue, it's annual advertising budget, from my understanding of what was written. A couple national tv spots and that money's used real fast. The revenue on that particular project was only* a couple million. It's a large project that had one lead and 10 other people on it, and 7 of those people left simultaneously.
 
2012-11-17 01:21:39 PM  

justinguarini4ever: If you have a $710M account that is dependent on one person knowing their system, that is ridiculous.


The lawsuit's ridiculous. You're seeing a company terrified that it can't actually perform on an account because some of its knowledge workers walked away, and so it's using the lawsuit to both taint those knowledge workers and cover its own ass.

Lost Thought 00: They signed non-competition contracts.


At which point their non-compete clauses would've been enforceable and a lawsuit wouldn't have been necessary, in theory. It depends on the state in which those non-compete clauses would've been enforced, and if they're actually enforceable. California, for example, ruled that non-compete clauses for contracts signed out of state aren't enforceable in California - if you signed a contract in, say, Washington, and then quit & opened a business in California, your non-compete contract does not apply.

And, again, none of that would typically require a lawsuit. No, this is pure CYA bullshiat.
 
2012-11-17 01:27:37 PM  

ItchyMcDoogle: BumpInTheNight: That was a pretty good finale but the whole show's been on sort of a meandering country drive ever since, except for the part about Lane hanging around the office.

I disagree last season was pretty good I thought

Lane beating the snot out of Pete has to be my all time favorite Mad Men moment.


Who's going to punch Pete this year?
What will happen with his shotgun?
 
2012-11-17 01:56:14 PM  

justinguarini4ever: If you have a $710M account that is dependent on one person knowing their system, that is ridiculous.


That part is awesome. Here's where a real stockholder lawsuit could come into play. "You never trained anyone else how the system works??"
 
2012-11-17 02:26:33 PM  

whither_apophis: justinguarini4ever: If you have a $710M account that is dependent on one person knowing their system, that is ridiculous.

That part is awesome. Here's where a real stockholder lawsuit could come into play. "You never trained anyone else how the system works??"


Except this is surprisingly common in most businesses, including large ones, and it's highly unlikely a suit on those grounds would ever get through a court.
 
2012-11-17 02:33:09 PM  
In most states, non-competes are not enforceable because people have the "right to work".

I guess Leo Burnett just received a harsh lesson that they need to treat people better.
 
2012-11-17 03:10:23 PM  
Don Draper has no contract.
And he likes it that way, thanks.
 
2012-11-17 03:13:11 PM  
I can't watch Mad Men because it's a little too close.

My father was an account exec at Leo Burnett's until his death in 1968. Kellogg's was one of his accounts.
 
2012-11-17 03:17:56 PM  

FitzShivering: whither_apophis: justinguarini4ever: If you have a $710M account that is dependent on one person knowing their system, that is ridiculous.

That part is awesome. Here's where a real stockholder lawsuit could come into play. "You never trained anyone else how the system works??"

Except this is surprisingly common in most businesses, including large ones, and it's highly unlikely a suit on those grounds would ever get through a court.


Just because a bunch of other companies do it doesn't make it good business. Letting one person be the gatekeeper for an obviously significant client is bad practice. The stockholders expect that the CEO does everything possible to maintain a thriving company and he didn't. They'd be in the same boat if she got hit by a bus.
 
2012-11-17 03:39:06 PM  
computers are magic. I'm sure nobody in the entire world could analyze the data like they did.

/must be apple users.
 
2012-11-17 03:54:39 PM  

whither_apophis: FitzShivering: whither_apophis: justinguarini4ever: If you have a $710M account that is dependent on one person knowing their system, that is ridiculous.

That part is awesome. Here's where a real stockholder lawsuit could come into play. "You never trained anyone else how the system works??"

Except this is surprisingly common in most businesses, including large ones, and it's highly unlikely a suit on those grounds would ever get through a court.

Just because a bunch of other companies do it doesn't make it good business. Letting one person be the gatekeeper for an obviously significant client is bad practice. The stockholders expect that the CEO does everything possible to maintain a thriving company and he didn't. They'd be in the same boat if she got hit by a bus.


That's a great story. I mean except for the fact that 8 people quit and not just 1. I think if just 1 of the key people had left they would be fine, but 8 is a different matter.
 
2012-11-17 04:20:57 PM  

NeoCortex42: The high point of the series for me will be the John Deere account. Definitely a WTF moment.


Which led to one of the greatest Roger one liners of all time

"I heard he might lose his foot"

"Right after he got it in the door."
 
2012-11-17 05:05:29 PM  

StingerJ: I work with a guy who started his career in union shops. He is blown away when younger, more talented people who've been at the company for less time than him are promoted past him.


I don't work in a union industry, but I'm getting to a point where my company is bringing in random younger, less educated people off the street to start taking over my responsibilities because they're cheaper. I was flabbergasted when it started, not because I have seniority, but because I genuinely am the only person at the company that has the technical education and experience to do what I do.

SoundOfOneHandWanking: computers are magic. I'm sure nobody in the entire world could analyze the data like they did.

/must be apple users.


You'd be surprised how many people working in "creative" industries have no clue how the technology surrounding them works, or don't want to know just so long as it keeps working.
 
2012-11-17 05:20:34 PM  

GoldDude: Looks like Leo Burnett just learned a lesson about how clients are usually more tied to the PEOPLE rather than the COMPANY
If the company fails to keep those people happy, and they're not being paid what they feel they deserve, then they might very well leave.
This is capitalism, boys... you know the game.
(Though I'm sure this "compensation based on personal performance" is a foreign concept to unionized workers)


Yep this. I do not feel sorry for this guy. Waaa waaaa I pissed off my staff and they walked and took my business from me ABS ' don't know how to run my shiat...WAAAAA WAAAAA.
 
2012-11-17 05:58:48 PM  

Tom_Slick: NeoCortex42: The high point of the series for me will be the John Deere account. Definitely a WTF moment.

Which led to one of the greatest Roger one liners of all time

"I heard he might lose his foot"

"Right after he got it in the door."


Is it just me or is the lobby full of Negros?
 
2012-11-17 06:28:29 PM  

Mattyb710: whither_apophis: FitzShivering: whither_apophis: justinguarini4ever: If you have a $710M account that is dependent on one person knowing their system, that is ridiculous.

That part is awesome. Here's where a real stockholder lawsuit could come into play. "You never trained anyone else how the system works??"

Except this is surprisingly common in most businesses, including large ones, and it's highly unlikely a suit on those grounds would ever get through a court.

Just because a bunch of other companies do it doesn't make it good business. Letting one person be the gatekeeper for an obviously significant client is bad practice. The stockholders expect that the CEO does everything possible to maintain a thriving company and he didn't. They'd be in the same boat if she got hit by a bus.

That's a great story. I mean except for the fact that 8 people quit and not just 1. I think if just 1 of the key people had left they would be fine, but 8 is a different matter.


If eight people jump ship than it's clear it was a lousy place to work. Really curious to see how this plays out.
 
2012-11-17 06:30:05 PM  

HotWingAgenda: StingerJ: I work with a guy who started his career in union shops. He is blown away when younger, more talented people who've been at the company for less time than him are promoted past him.

I don't work in a union industry, but I'm getting to a point where my company is bringing in random younger, less educated people off the street to start taking over my responsibilities because they're cheaper. I was flabbergasted when it started, not because I have seniority, but because I genuinely am the only person at the company that has the technical education and experience to do what I do.


Last time I got fired from a job, it was due to my costing the company so much, pay wise. I've heard thru the grapevine that they have now hired 3 people to cover all my previous tasks, while payroll and benefits both are costing the firm more than ever. Two of the three seem to have problems every Monday or Friday, and take Family Leave Act time, which shafts the others, while the third seems to be perpetually pregnant. But, I was old, grey, and used the telephone to converse with clients, and meet in person rather than text and email. Hahahahahahaha!!!
 
2012-11-17 06:58:24 PM  
CRM is customer relationship management. I did not know that.
 
2012-11-17 07:34:43 PM  
HotWingAgenda:
I don't work in a union industry, but I'm getting to a point where my company is bringing in random younger, less educated people off the street to start taking over my responsibilities because they're cheaper. I was flabbergasted when it started, not because I have seniority, but because I genuinely am the only person at the company that has the technical education and experience to do what I do..

...which is why they bring them in *now*, while you're still available to do knowledge transfer and train them up.

Doesn't magically make them your peers, but if you're truly the only person who can do something, you're a point failure source, and that's a BAD thing - as the company in the linked article is finding out
 
2012-11-17 07:45:33 PM  

GoldDude: Looks like Leo Burnett just learned a lesson about how clients are usually more tied to the PEOPLE rather than the COMPANY
If the company fails to keep those people happy, and they're not being paid what they feel they deserve, then they might very well leave.
This is capitalism, boys... you know the game.
(Though I'm sure this "compensation based on personal performance" is a foreign concept to unionized workers)


And then you bash and blame the workers when they do the exact same thing as the white-collar guys did.

/IOKIYARG
 
2012-11-17 07:49:09 PM  

whither_apophis: FitzShivering: whither_apophis: justinguarini4ever: If you have a $710M account that is dependent on one person knowing their system, that is ridiculous.

That part is awesome. Here's where a real stockholder lawsuit could come into play. "You never trained anyone else how the system works??"

Except this is surprisingly common in most businesses, including large ones, and it's highly unlikely a suit on those grounds would ever get through a court.

Just because a bunch of other companies do it doesn't make it good business. Letting one person be the gatekeeper for an obviously significant client is bad practice. The stockholders expect that the CEO does everything possible to maintain a thriving company and he didn't. They'd be in the same boat if she got hit by a bus.


They're just finally starting to find out that CEOs are more in it for themselves than their companies. Hopefully they'll wise up and purge those that burn companies to the ground to enrich themselves, running counter to the last two decades where that sort of shiat was good business practice.
 
2012-11-17 09:25:10 PM  

GoldDude: Looks like Leo Burnett just learned a lesson about how clients are usually more tied to the PEOPLE rather than the COMPANY
If the company fails to keep those people happy, and they're not being paid what they feel they deserve, then they might very well leave.
This is capitalism, boys... you know the game.
(Though I'm sure this "compensation based on personal performance" is a foreign concept to unionized workers)


News to me. I worked for GTE back in the day - and the union had no problem with performance incentives or awards - in fact, they encouraged them.
 
2012-11-17 09:41:51 PM  

Dear Jerk: CRM is customer relationship management. I did not know that.


We have an entire Exchange/Outlook integrated information system devoted just to that. I imagine it makes sure that this type of thing doesn't happen. So a terminated user's CRM data all gets pushed over to his or her manager.
 
2012-11-17 10:18:34 PM  

ItchyMcDoogle: BumpInTheNight: That was a pretty good finale but the whole show's been on sort of a meandering country drive ever since, except for the part about Lane hanging around the office.

I disagree last season was pretty good I thought

Lane beating the snot out of Pete has to be my all time favorite Mad Men moment.


"PIZZA HAUS!"
 
2012-11-17 10:45:06 PM  

stratagos: HotWingAgenda:
I don't work in a union industry, but I'm getting to a point where my company is bringing in random younger, less educated people off the street to start taking over my responsibilities because they're cheaper. I was flabbergasted when it started, not because I have seniority, but because I genuinely am the only person at the company that has the technical education and experience to do what I do..

...which is why they bring them in *now*, while you're still available to do knowledge transfer and train them up.

Doesn't magically make them your peers, but if you're truly the only person who can do something, you're a point failure source, and that's a BAD thing - as the company in the linked article is finding out


If these were people that shared my qualifications and had the capability to learn my job, you would be right. As stated, and apparently ignored by you, they are not.
 
2012-11-18 12:37:03 AM  
Correction, subby. Don and several other people left the office when Lane fired them, and when he was subsequently fired, he joined them.

Really, that was the Ocean's 11 of the advertising world
 
2012-11-18 01:21:54 AM  
GRIMY LITTLE PIMPS
 
2012-11-18 02:19:55 AM  

justinguarini4ever: If you have a $710M account that is dependent on one person knowing their system, that is ridiculous.


I spent some time working for an ad agency (never again ...) and it seems this is just how they work. The MO is to get a large client, hire a ton of people to service that client. If that client leaves for some reason, usually the team is fired. On top of that, Ad agencies bill by the hour and (at least where I worked) we had to track our time to clients and be 90% billable. So there's no loyalty to the agency and no incentive to do things efficiently. Instead of sharing technology the client team will build everything up from scratch. The agency I worked for was a smaller one but we had at least five hacked together CRM systems on different platforms and dedicated people around to maintain them.
 
2012-11-18 02:27:30 AM  

FitzShivering: whither_apophis: justinguarini4ever: If you have a $710M account that is dependent on one person knowing their system, that is ridiculous.

That part is awesome. Here's where a real stockholder lawsuit could come into play. "You never trained anyone else how the system works??"

Except this is surprisingly common in most businesses, including large ones, and it's highly unlikely a suit on those grounds would ever get through a court.


Surprisingly common indeed. I have what they call "a set of irreplaceable" skills... I plan on keeping it that way.
 
2012-11-18 08:55:41 AM  
Damn, did they take the Penske file with them too?
 
2012-11-18 09:38:56 AM  

cherryl taggart: HotWingAgenda: StingerJ: I work with a guy who started his career in union shops. He is blown away when younger, more talented people who've been at the company for less time than him are promoted past him.

I don't work in a union industry, but I'm getting to a point where my company is bringing in random younger, less educated people off the street to start taking over my responsibilities because they're cheaper. I was flabbergasted when it started, not because I have seniority, but because I genuinely am the only person at the company that has the technical education and experience to do what I do.


Last time I got fired from a job, it was due to my costing the company so much, pay wise. I've heard thru the grapevine that they have now hired 3 people to cover all my previous tasks, while payroll and benefits both are costing the firm more than ever. Two of the three seem to have problems every Monday or Friday, and take Family Leave Act time, which shafts the others, while the third seems to be perpetually pregnant. But, I was old, grey, and used the telephone to converse with clients, and meet in person rather than text and email. Hahahahahahaha!!!



I was supposed to work yesterday to do a routine maintenance operation that comes up once a month. Trouble is, our leadership got a look at my pay for October, where I pulled in about 150% of my usual pay because of overtime. Can't have that, so they tell my boss that he is to pull the maintenance op (he's on salary) and I'm to keep my butt at home.

Trouble is, we had a catastrophic equipment failure Thursday afternoon, which couldn't get fixed until late Friday, which meant we ALL had to work Saturday....and I made even MORE money. Plus I get to do the maintenance op anyways weekend after next.

/minimum 200% of pay in November, plus a raise :D
 
2012-11-18 05:12:55 PM  

whither_apophis: justinguarini4ever: If you have a $710M account that is dependent on one person knowing their system, that is ridiculous.

That part is awesome. Here's where a real stockholder lawsuit could come into play. "You never trained anyone else how the system works??"


I work in IT. I made some serious mistakes when I was in mental turmoil due to family tragedy. I was reprimanded, put on probation, humiliated. I said I would look for another post in the company only to be told that I wasn't allowed to do that. Even though I was apparently doing a shiat job they would not allow to leave as I was the only one who had the knowledge to do my particular job. The assholes did not bother to train anybody else.

Of course I cold have resigned but that would probably be the end of my career in this economic environment.
 
2012-11-18 05:18:58 PM  

AtlanticCoast63: cherryl taggart: HotWingAgenda: StingerJ: I work with a guy who started his career in union shops. He is blown away when younger, more talented people who've been at the company for less time than him are promoted past him.

I don't work in a union industry, but I'm getting to a point where my company is bringing in random younger, less educated people off the street to start taking over my responsibilities because they're cheaper. I was flabbergasted when it started, not because I have seniority, but because I genuinely am the only person at the company that has the technical education and experience to do what I do.


Last time I got fired from a job, it was due to my costing the company so much, pay wise. I've heard thru the grapevine that they have now hired 3 people to cover all my previous tasks, while payroll and benefits both are costing the firm more than ever. Two of the three seem to have problems every Monday or Friday, and take Family Leave Act time, which shafts the others, while the third seems to be perpetually pregnant. But, I was old, grey, and used the telephone to converse with clients, and meet in person rather than text and email. Hahahahahahaha!!!


I was supposed to work yesterday to do a routine maintenance operation that comes up once a month. Trouble is, our leadership got a look at my pay for October, where I pulled in about 150% of my usual pay because of overtime. Can't have that, so they tell my boss that he is to pull the maintenance op (he's on salary) and I'm to keep my butt at home.

Trouble is, we had a catastrophic equipment failure Thursday afternoon, which couldn't get fixed until late Friday, which meant we ALL had to work Saturday....and I made even MORE money. Plus I get to do the maintenance op anyways weekend after next.

/minimum 200% of pay in November, plus a raise :D


They can't see the "benefit" half of a cost-benefit analysis, so they end up spending even more money. The irony would be delicious if it didn't eventually cost you all your jobs.
 
2012-11-19 03:04:19 AM  
I'm guessing they gave him an ultimatum, he told them to stfu and gbtw and they said "bye". Now he's mad because it's a huge blow to his company.
 
2012-11-19 03:39:00 PM  
I love being in this position.

The last company I worked for freaked out about me starting a start up in my free time that had nothing to do with my day job. After it was all finished, I was "fired" (resigned, while retaining my start-up's IP) but they payed me full wage for a year after I left just so they could "call me" if needed to answer a question they had about systems that I designed. They never called.

So for freaking out about my side gig and throwing a fit that cost them several key employees it ultimately ended up with them paying me to work on my startup fulltime.
 
2012-11-19 04:03:05 PM  
When you have an employee or team of employees who are so essential to the ongoing operation of your overall business, you have three options:
1) Make DAMN sure they are happy (be it pay, hours, flexibility, work environment, etc.) and keep in touch regularly so if anything comes up it can be addressed; or
2) Split up the work and train up subordinates - make it part of their performance bonus requirements to spread the knowledge; or finally
3) Pretend that it'll last forever without doing anything to ensure it does - and act like a chicken with its head cut off when they leave for greener pastures. Tell the board of directors that you "did everything you could to protect the company's interests".
 
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