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(AZ Family)   Even if you're philosophically against class action lawsuits, you secretly applaud ones against HOAs   (azfamily.com) divider line 25
    More: Spiffy, nursing student, Maya & Miguel, class-action, property management  
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11377 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Nov 2012 at 11:40 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-11-17 12:22:54 PM  
3 votes:
I hate these threads! HOAs can have more legal power than local or state governments. Consider:

How do you fight a HOA that can change the bylaws that govern your relationship?

What good does it do to get a single person elected to the board when the bylaws may state that any member of the board may be discharged without cause by a majority of the board?

Where do you get the war chest to fight a HOA that has the dues from 1,000 to 25,000 (New Jersey) homeowners?

What can you do when a HOA changes the fine rules to allow any fine deemed necessary to ensure compliance (Spring Ridge, New Jersey)?

Where can you find a competent HOA lawyer to represent you when it may mean that he's sabotaging his own potent future business with HOAs?

The love-it-or-leave-it argument ignores the reality that if all you can afford - or want responsibility for - is a condominium then you will be getting a HOA.

In my experience, the best way to decide is to go to the development on a Saturday and ask current owners what they think.
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-11-17 09:00:09 AM  
3 votes:
Robert contacted AAM was shocked to learn his $150 in back payments had ballooned to more than $1300.

There is nothing HOA-specific about this. You probably have a credit card or student loan agreement saying if you are a penny short or a day late they can hire the entire staff of the biggest NYC law firm to fly from Laguardia to Newark via China to stomp on you at your expense.

Fixes to the system probably have to come by statute, so these stories are useful even when the debtor is going to lose. In Massachusetts one of the papers ran a series on debt collection practices. The result was some minor changes to the law, most importantly raising the vehicle exemption from a few hundred to several thousand dollars. If your car is worth less than $7,500 the creditor can't hold it hostage as a debt collection tool.  (The trick was, seize a $2,000 car over a $300 debt, sell it for $300, charge the debtor $600 in sheriff's and auction fees, and leave the debtor $300 deeper in the hole and some friend of the sheriff $1,700 richer.)
2012-11-17 07:55:37 AM  
3 votes:
I see this from two different sides...guy agreed to live in an HOA and adhere to their rules, including paying the dues. On the other hand, this guy could lose his home over a few back dues/crazy fees? Come on people! Totally unacceptable.

I do think that there should at least be some kind of protection for homeowners against overly aggressive HOAs. I mean, missing one payment then it suddenly ballooning to $1300 then potentially forcing the homeowner to sell the house to settle the debt? Horseshait.
2012-11-17 07:30:48 AM  
3 votes:
Ahh, HOAs -- where people who are abused by their bosses, spouses, children and co-workers go to be able to flout their authority when they're finally banned from Denny's for sending their Moons over My Hammy back one too many times.
2012-11-17 12:22:42 PM  
2 votes:
If you are the type of person to join an HOA, you are certainly of a type I would not want for a neighbor.
2012-11-17 12:09:24 PM  
2 votes:

themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.


Then it should be made optional when purchasing a home
2012-11-17 11:58:22 AM  
2 votes:
Legalized Loan Sharking is what this is. On the one hand...pay your dues. On the other hand when the "fees" amount to 10X the actual amount due, something is beyond suspicious.

Having missed a toll bill in the mail once (Dallas Area tolls will simply mail you a bill instead of having to carry around change), I've seen how this works. I have 5 tolls that month when I missed the bill. Typically they are 50 cents or so. For each toll, i was charged an administrative fee of $6.00. So my roughly $3.50 bill became over $30.

Its no different if I pay my Home Loan online--they charge a "Fee" of $20 to process the payment...WTF!! (Yes I know they can wave it, but if the person is a dick they won't and the $20 charge is less than a late fee).

Or to transfer between bank accounts that takes three days (electronically) they charge you money and then get to use your money interest free for 3 days.

Bit of a ramble here, but the more people stand up to this BS, the less we get nickled and dimed to death. Its become so Outrageous that its clearly overboard in some areas like HOA dues/or fines (I once received a nasty gram because my lawn wasn't green enough--in JANUARY! $35 fine because ummm seasons!).

I think its time for pitchforks and tar.....Excuse me, now I have to go take my meds.
2012-11-17 11:57:17 AM  
2 votes:

Derwood: HOA's don't make up these rules. Condo/HOA powers are usually pretty clearly encoded in state law.


FTFA:
Robert hired his own attorney, Roger Wood, who told 3 On Your Side that he's discovered thousands of liens and lawsuits that he claims were wrongfully filed against Arizona homeowners, like the Leathams.


The lawsuit says he's found 2,000 claims he says were wrongfully reported to the Recorder's Office in Maricopa County. I want to know what process the LLCs were supposed to follow.
2012-11-17 09:14:38 AM  
2 votes:

ZAZ: Robert contacted AAM was shocked to learn his $150 in back payments had ballooned to more than $1300.

There is nothing HOA-specific about this. You probably have a credit card or student loan agreement saying if you are a penny short or a day late they can hire the entire staff of the biggest NYC law firm to fly from Laguardia to Newark via China to stomp on you at your expense.

Fixes to the system probably have to come by statute, so these stories are useful even when the debtor is going to lose. In Massachusetts one of the papers ran a series on debt collection practices. The result was some minor changes to the law, most importantly raising the vehicle exemption from a few hundred to several thousand dollars. If your car is worth less than $7,500 the creditor can't hold it hostage as a debt collection tool.  (The trick was, seize a $2,000 car over a $300 debt, sell it for $300, charge the debtor $600 in sheriff's and auction fees, and leave the debtor $300 deeper in the hole and some friend of the sheriff $1,700 richer.)


The people who did that should have been shot. And not cleanly.
2012-11-17 01:36:24 PM  
1 votes:
This just in - homeowners associations are mostly made up of tight-assed, dime store Nazis who are quite sure that the association owns your home. These are window shade peepers, lip biters and dink squeezers who sound like those little purse dogs when they get wound up about your 1/4" too long front lawn. This it renting from failed TSA Nazis. This never ends well and the property values they are "protecting" seldom stack up to anything but bitter battles over whether or not the person who's name is on the lien is allowed live peaceably in their own home. Here's a hint. No. You're not. Now pay up your HOA dues for the drunk f*ck who half-assedly plows the snow and then runs and tells if your gutter is loose. Suckers.
2012-11-17 01:32:15 PM  
1 votes:

CruJones: Maybe it's just me, but my house in Memphis has a perfectly reasonable HOA. The dues are low, they mow our yards and fertilize them, even edging. We have a party with BBQ and beer twice a year, they keep our private streets in great shape. Otherwise I never hear from them except for the monthly (or quarterly?) newsletter. They approve everything reasonable. They did stop the crazy purple lady on the street from painting her house a horrid shade of purple, but I'm ok with that.

/everything she owns is purple, car, clothes, flowers
//even purple eye glass lenses


So you happen to be lucky. For now. Things may change. The problem with HOAs is that right now laws are not set up to protect individual rights when HOAs go bad.

If the law limited HOAs the way state and federal constitutions limit local governments, then I would have no problem with HOAs. At the very least there should be "Homeowner Rights" made into state and federal laws that govern HOa contracts. That way the good HOAs could keep working, and people would have a way to fight bad HOAs.
2012-11-17 01:03:44 PM  
1 votes:

CasperImproved: lilplatinum: Hey, its the thread where people who want to put their car up on cinderblocks rage against the concept of private contracts.

Pretty lame response... Just because I don't want snoopdy-snoop worrying about and having say-so about what's happening in my yard, doesn't mean I live by less than adequate standards (cut grass, keep house up to code , annoy teenagers that are loitering, etc.).

Need other noses up your anus having discussion about the color of what's coming out? Feel free to join/create your own HOA.... or maybe you like that?


You seem to be missing the point: most people don't live in HOAs to have their own lives monitored but to ensure that their own quality of life isn't diminished by some foul or careless neighbor. There's good and bad that comes with exclusivity.
2012-11-17 12:30:06 PM  
1 votes:
HOA's seem to be filled with people that have "Little Dictator" syndrome, they also have some of the most ridiculous 'rules' I've ever heard of. I don't see how telling someone in the neighborhood that they can't have a flag/flagpole or treehouse or their personal choice of paint color on their house is beneficial to homeowners. This is the height of 'Busybody' neighbors forcing everyone else to do things "THEIR" way. Bunch of Nazis...

I understand that the majority of people that end up in neighborhoods that have HOA's move into them after the HOA has been established but I have heard of neighborhoods changing over to an HOA and people in the neighborhood that don't want to be a part of it being 'out voted' and then stuck with rules and fees that they do not want and voted against. How is that even remotely fair OR legal? They should be able to "Opt Out" of an HOA if they do not agree to be a part of it!

Personally I think HOA's are pretty stupid and should only be allowed to form if EVERY SINGLE PERSON in the neighborhood agrees to it: not unanimous = no HOA!  Prospective new home buyers should also make sure that they know EXACTLY what the rules and fees are so they can make an informed decision.
2012-11-17 12:28:04 PM  
1 votes:

themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.


Spoken like someone who's never tried to purchase a home in certain areas of the country. In Northern Virginia, the choice was: live in a crap neighborhood in an ancient home with no HOA, or live somewhere decent in a home built in the last 30 years with an HOA. We didn't see an single home that WASN'T in a HOA.
2012-11-17 12:23:31 PM  
1 votes:

themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.


I agree--I would never live under one. However, many people find that all affordable housing in the area where that have a job or need to live have been developed with HOAs. For them, there is a choice, but a rather limited one. The fact the HOAs use contracts to act as local governments means we need laws to insure individual rights are preserved over HOA boards and contracts. If it acts like a local government, it should have the same limits and responsibilities as actual local governments.
2012-11-17 12:16:36 PM  
1 votes:

Warlordtrooper: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Then it should be made optional when purchasing a home


It is completely optional. When you are buying a house you get to choose which house to buy. Don't buy in an HOA controlled development.
2012-11-17 12:16:27 PM  
1 votes:

Warlordtrooper: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Then it should be made optional when purchasing a home


It is. I purchased a home without an HOA. Mainly because of things like this.
I mow my lawn, rake my leaves, and keep my house clean. My neighbors do the same... mostly.
2012-11-17 12:16:04 PM  
1 votes:

Warlordtrooper: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Then it should be made optional when purchasing a home


Purchasing a home under an HOA is optional.
2012-11-17 12:14:52 PM  
1 votes:
HOAs suck. On the other hand, pay your f*cking bills and this stuff doesn't happen.
2012-11-17 12:13:21 PM  
1 votes:

mpfjr: HOA's exist for a reason. HOA communities typically have higher resale values because the neighborhoods are kept up and idiot neighbors are fined for breaking the rules. When you buy a house you have to sign a document that says you know there is an HOA and you agree to abide by the terms and rules. Part of that is what happens when you don't pay your dues.

Don't like it? HOA boards are elected. Next time there is an election get that seat filled by someone that agrees with you or run yourself. Most HOA meetings are every other month. Nobody shows up. Lucky if there are even enough board members to make quorum. Get involved! Change management companies if you don't like their practices. Decisions are made by those who show up.

Don't want to get involved? Pay your HOA dues or move out. Pretty simple.


When a company buys 1/100th of a share and then stacks the vote for 100 'residents' tell me how that voting works for you.
2012-11-17 12:00:37 PM  
1 votes:
Who is philosophically against class action lawsuits? It's one of the few tools left for little people to stand up against massive corporations and other entrenched interests.
2012-11-17 11:57:45 AM  
1 votes:
HOA's exist for a reason. HOA communities typically have higher resale values because the neighborhoods are kept up and idiot neighbors are fined for breaking the rules. When you buy a house you have to sign a document that says you know there is an HOA and you agree to abide by the terms and rules. Part of that is what happens when you don't pay your dues.

Don't like it? HOA boards are elected. Next time there is an election get that seat filled by someone that agrees with you or run yourself. Most HOA meetings are every other month. Nobody shows up. Lucky if there are even enough board members to make quorum. Get involved! Change management companies if you don't like their practices. Decisions are made by those who show up.

Don't want to get involved? Pay your HOA dues or move out. Pretty simple.
2012-11-17 11:52:51 AM  
1 votes:
Neither class action lawsuits nor HOAs are intrinsically bad. Far too many of both are abusive and corrupt, causing drastically more damage than good. But one doesn't throw out people's right to sue for damages (and class action lawsuits are good for the court system and the speed of justice) any more than one throws out the right of people to willingly enter into contracts.
2012-11-17 11:51:26 AM  
1 votes:

Another HOA hater thread?

img201.imageshack.us


/way to stretch for that low hanging fruit, tardmitter.
2012-11-17 07:24:34 AM  
1 votes:
In Sin City, when Marv is talking about how he don't feel bad doin' things to hit men... that's how I feel about HOAs and their crooked lawyers.
 
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