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(AZ Family)   Even if you're philosophically against class action lawsuits, you secretly applaud ones against HOAs   (azfamily.com) divider line 97
    More: Spiffy, nursing student, Maya & Miguel, class-action, property management  
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11388 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Nov 2012 at 11:40 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-17 07:24:34 AM  
In Sin City, when Marv is talking about how he don't feel bad doin' things to hit men... that's how I feel about HOAs and their crooked lawyers.
 
2012-11-17 07:30:48 AM  
Ahh, HOAs -- where people who are abused by their bosses, spouses, children and co-workers go to be able to flout their authority when they're finally banned from Denny's for sending their Moons over My Hammy back one too many times.
 
2012-11-17 07:55:37 AM  
I see this from two different sides...guy agreed to live in an HOA and adhere to their rules, including paying the dues. On the other hand, this guy could lose his home over a few back dues/crazy fees? Come on people! Totally unacceptable.

I do think that there should at least be some kind of protection for homeowners against overly aggressive HOAs. I mean, missing one payment then it suddenly ballooning to $1300 then potentially forcing the homeowner to sell the house to settle the debt? Horseshait.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-11-17 09:00:09 AM  
Robert contacted AAM was shocked to learn his $150 in back payments had ballooned to more than $1300.

There is nothing HOA-specific about this. You probably have a credit card or student loan agreement saying if you are a penny short or a day late they can hire the entire staff of the biggest NYC law firm to fly from Laguardia to Newark via China to stomp on you at your expense.

Fixes to the system probably have to come by statute, so these stories are useful even when the debtor is going to lose. In Massachusetts one of the papers ran a series on debt collection practices. The result was some minor changes to the law, most importantly raising the vehicle exemption from a few hundred to several thousand dollars. If your car is worth less than $7,500 the creditor can't hold it hostage as a debt collection tool.  (The trick was, seize a $2,000 car over a $300 debt, sell it for $300, charge the debtor $600 in sheriff's and auction fees, and leave the debtor $300 deeper in the hole and some friend of the sheriff $1,700 richer.)
 
2012-11-17 09:14:38 AM  

ZAZ: Robert contacted AAM was shocked to learn his $150 in back payments had ballooned to more than $1300.

There is nothing HOA-specific about this. You probably have a credit card or student loan agreement saying if you are a penny short or a day late they can hire the entire staff of the biggest NYC law firm to fly from Laguardia to Newark via China to stomp on you at your expense.

Fixes to the system probably have to come by statute, so these stories are useful even when the debtor is going to lose. In Massachusetts one of the papers ran a series on debt collection practices. The result was some minor changes to the law, most importantly raising the vehicle exemption from a few hundred to several thousand dollars. If your car is worth less than $7,500 the creditor can't hold it hostage as a debt collection tool.  (The trick was, seize a $2,000 car over a $300 debt, sell it for $300, charge the debtor $600 in sheriff's and auction fees, and leave the debtor $300 deeper in the hole and some friend of the sheriff $1,700 richer.)


The people who did that should have been shot. And not cleanly.
 
2012-11-17 11:45:40 AM  
HOA's don't make up these rules. Condo/HOA powers are usually pretty clearly encoded in state law.
 
2012-11-17 11:48:02 AM  

ones against HOA's


Against HOA's what? Just one HOA, then?
 
2012-11-17 11:51:26 AM  

Another HOA hater thread?

img201.imageshack.us


/way to stretch for that low hanging fruit, tardmitter.
 
2012-11-17 11:52:51 AM  
Neither class action lawsuits nor HOAs are intrinsically bad. Far too many of both are abusive and corrupt, causing drastically more damage than good. But one doesn't throw out people's right to sue for damages (and class action lawsuits are good for the court system and the speed of justice) any more than one throws out the right of people to willingly enter into contracts.
 
2012-11-17 11:57:17 AM  

Derwood: HOA's don't make up these rules. Condo/HOA powers are usually pretty clearly encoded in state law.


FTFA:
Robert hired his own attorney, Roger Wood, who told 3 On Your Side that he's discovered thousands of liens and lawsuits that he claims were wrongfully filed against Arizona homeowners, like the Leathams.


The lawsuit says he's found 2,000 claims he says were wrongfully reported to the Recorder's Office in Maricopa County. I want to know what process the LLCs were supposed to follow.
 
2012-11-17 11:57:45 AM  
HOA's exist for a reason. HOA communities typically have higher resale values because the neighborhoods are kept up and idiot neighbors are fined for breaking the rules. When you buy a house you have to sign a document that says you know there is an HOA and you agree to abide by the terms and rules. Part of that is what happens when you don't pay your dues.

Don't like it? HOA boards are elected. Next time there is an election get that seat filled by someone that agrees with you or run yourself. Most HOA meetings are every other month. Nobody shows up. Lucky if there are even enough board members to make quorum. Get involved! Change management companies if you don't like their practices. Decisions are made by those who show up.

Don't want to get involved? Pay your HOA dues or move out. Pretty simple.
 
2012-11-17 11:58:22 AM  
Legalized Loan Sharking is what this is. On the one hand...pay your dues. On the other hand when the "fees" amount to 10X the actual amount due, something is beyond suspicious.

Having missed a toll bill in the mail once (Dallas Area tolls will simply mail you a bill instead of having to carry around change), I've seen how this works. I have 5 tolls that month when I missed the bill. Typically they are 50 cents or so. For each toll, i was charged an administrative fee of $6.00. So my roughly $3.50 bill became over $30.

Its no different if I pay my Home Loan online--they charge a "Fee" of $20 to process the payment...WTF!! (Yes I know they can wave it, but if the person is a dick they won't and the $20 charge is less than a late fee).

Or to transfer between bank accounts that takes three days (electronically) they charge you money and then get to use your money interest free for 3 days.

Bit of a ramble here, but the more people stand up to this BS, the less we get nickled and dimed to death. Its become so Outrageous that its clearly overboard in some areas like HOA dues/or fines (I once received a nasty gram because my lawn wasn't green enough--in JANUARY! $35 fine because ummm seasons!).

I think its time for pitchforks and tar.....Excuse me, now I have to go take my meds.
 
2012-11-17 11:58:33 AM  
So he's an LEO and doesn't abuse his power to try to fix things? That's rare.
 
2012-11-17 11:59:10 AM  
Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.
 
2012-11-17 12:00:37 PM  
Who is philosophically against class action lawsuits? It's one of the few tools left for little people to stand up against massive corporations and other entrenched interests.
 
2012-11-17 12:09:24 PM  

themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.


Then it should be made optional when purchasing a home
 
2012-11-17 12:13:21 PM  

mpfjr: HOA's exist for a reason. HOA communities typically have higher resale values because the neighborhoods are kept up and idiot neighbors are fined for breaking the rules. When you buy a house you have to sign a document that says you know there is an HOA and you agree to abide by the terms and rules. Part of that is what happens when you don't pay your dues.

Don't like it? HOA boards are elected. Next time there is an election get that seat filled by someone that agrees with you or run yourself. Most HOA meetings are every other month. Nobody shows up. Lucky if there are even enough board members to make quorum. Get involved! Change management companies if you don't like their practices. Decisions are made by those who show up.

Don't want to get involved? Pay your HOA dues or move out. Pretty simple.


When a company buys 1/100th of a share and then stacks the vote for 100 'residents' tell me how that voting works for you.
 
2012-11-17 12:14:52 PM  
HOAs suck. On the other hand, pay your f*cking bills and this stuff doesn't happen.
 
2012-11-17 12:16:04 PM  

Warlordtrooper: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Then it should be made optional when purchasing a home


Purchasing a home under an HOA is optional.
 
2012-11-17 12:16:15 PM  

Endive Wombat: I see this from two different sides...guy agreed to live in an HOA and adhere to their rules, including paying the dues. On the other hand, this guy could lose his home over a few back dues/crazy fees? Come on people! Totally unacceptable.

I do think that there should at least be some kind of protection for homeowners against overly aggressive HOAs. I mean, missing one payment then it suddenly ballooning to $1300 then potentially forcing the homeowner to sell the house to settle the debt? Horseshait.


FTFA, it does not appear that this happened "suddenly".

The lien was placed "earlier this year" for falling behind on the dues. I would guess that the dues was due back in December and then sometime in March, after trying to collect the dues for a couple of months, they filed the lien.

So almost a year later, he finds that the people who filed the lien had to spend money to do so. Surprise!
 
2012-11-17 12:16:27 PM  

Warlordtrooper: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Then it should be made optional when purchasing a home


It is. I purchased a home without an HOA. Mainly because of things like this.
I mow my lawn, rake my leaves, and keep my house clean. My neighbors do the same... mostly.
 
2012-11-17 12:16:36 PM  

Warlordtrooper: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Then it should be made optional when purchasing a home


It is completely optional. When you are buying a house you get to choose which house to buy. Don't buy in an HOA controlled development.
 
2012-11-17 12:16:53 PM  

Knucklepopper: Derwood: HOA's don't make up these rules. Condo/HOA powers are usually pretty clearly encoded in state law.

FTFA:
Robert hired his own attorney, Roger Wood, who told 3 On Your Side that he's discovered thousands of liens and lawsuits that he claims were wrongfully filed against Arizona homeowners, like the Leathams.


The lawsuit says he's found 2,000 claims he says were wrongfully reported to the Recorder's Office in Maricopa County. I want to know what process the LLCs were supposed to follow.


Good luck in the corrupt land of Sherrif farkin' Joe. Unless you are over 80.
 
2012-11-17 12:18:09 PM  

Warlordtrooper: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Then it should be made optional when purchasing a home


It is. Don't buy in a place where HOA membership is required.
 
2012-11-17 12:22:15 PM  

Warlordtrooper: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Then it should be made optional when purchasing a home


you are missing the point.
You are not just purchasing a home, you are buying into a community that is managed by a HOA. For some people, the HOA has a benefit - e.g. when your neighbors refuse to mow their lawn or decide they want to paint their house bright pink, there are ways to make sure that your property value is not adversely affected.
 
2012-11-17 12:22:42 PM  
If you are the type of person to join an HOA, you are certainly of a type I would not want for a neighbor.
 
2012-11-17 12:22:54 PM  
I hate these threads! HOAs can have more legal power than local or state governments. Consider:

How do you fight a HOA that can change the bylaws that govern your relationship?

What good does it do to get a single person elected to the board when the bylaws may state that any member of the board may be discharged without cause by a majority of the board?

Where do you get the war chest to fight a HOA that has the dues from 1,000 to 25,000 (New Jersey) homeowners?

What can you do when a HOA changes the fine rules to allow any fine deemed necessary to ensure compliance (Spring Ridge, New Jersey)?

Where can you find a competent HOA lawyer to represent you when it may mean that he's sabotaging his own potent future business with HOAs?

The love-it-or-leave-it argument ignores the reality that if all you can afford - or want responsibility for - is a condominium then you will be getting a HOA.

In my experience, the best way to decide is to go to the development on a Saturday and ask current owners what they think.
 
2012-11-17 12:23:31 PM  

themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.


I agree--I would never live under one. However, many people find that all affordable housing in the area where that have a job or need to live have been developed with HOAs. For them, there is a choice, but a rather limited one. The fact the HOAs use contracts to act as local governments means we need laws to insure individual rights are preserved over HOA boards and contracts. If it acts like a local government, it should have the same limits and responsibilities as actual local governments.
 
2012-11-17 12:26:39 PM  
Now that I'm off my board, sue away.
 
2012-11-17 12:28:04 PM  

themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.


Spoken like someone who's never tried to purchase a home in certain areas of the country. In Northern Virginia, the choice was: live in a crap neighborhood in an ancient home with no HOA, or live somewhere decent in a home built in the last 30 years with an HOA. We didn't see an single home that WASN'T in a HOA.
 
2012-11-17 12:30:00 PM  

Lost_in_Oregon:
The love-it-or-leave-it argument ignores the reality that if all you can afford - or want responsibility for - is a condominium then you will be getting a HOA.

 

img src="first_world_problems.jpg"
 
2012-11-17 12:30:06 PM  
HOA's seem to be filled with people that have "Little Dictator" syndrome, they also have some of the most ridiculous 'rules' I've ever heard of. I don't see how telling someone in the neighborhood that they can't have a flag/flagpole or treehouse or their personal choice of paint color on their house is beneficial to homeowners. This is the height of 'Busybody' neighbors forcing everyone else to do things "THEIR" way. Bunch of Nazis...

I understand that the majority of people that end up in neighborhoods that have HOA's move into them after the HOA has been established but I have heard of neighborhoods changing over to an HOA and people in the neighborhood that don't want to be a part of it being 'out voted' and then stuck with rules and fees that they do not want and voted against. How is that even remotely fair OR legal? They should be able to "Opt Out" of an HOA if they do not agree to be a part of it!

Personally I think HOA's are pretty stupid and should only be allowed to form if EVERY SINGLE PERSON in the neighborhood agrees to it: not unanimous = no HOA!  Prospective new home buyers should also make sure that they know EXACTLY what the rules and fees are so they can make an informed decision.
 
2012-11-17 12:33:00 PM  
Really, it all adds up to doing the research before signing on the dotted line.

When I bought my last house, I looked very carefully at the HOA terms, and really they weren't too onerous, so I bit the bullet and signed. As it happened, the developer still controlled the HOA long after they were supposed to, and didn't make a fuss when they left, so our HOA pretty much went away without a fuss. One person tried to resurrect it, mostly to get their neighbors with dogs to complete their fence, but everyone expressed a total lack of interest in organizing it. Hooray for apathy!
 
2012-11-17 12:33:11 PM  

He_Hate_Me: Who is philosophically against class action lawsuits? It's one of the few tools left for little people to stand up against massive corporations and other entrenched interests.


Like all lawsuits, there are reasonable ones and just absurd one. People suing because of dangerous drugs with unforetold side effects, or suing for loss wages or bad working conditions if perfectly fine. But when I hear about class action suits against baseball and pokemons cards because they promote gambling for children, or suits against McDonald's for making them fat, it's just farking ridiculous. Also a lot of class action lawsuits never pay off the actual "victims" or pay a very small amount, while the lawyers get off with a large chunk of cash, usually far more then any of the people who actually suffered.

That is what I can't stand is shameless money grubbing in the name of a cause.
 
2012-11-17 12:35:32 PM  
find the orginal bill pay the 100 bucks or what ever.
Tell them to get f$$$ for the rest.
 
2012-11-17 12:37:06 PM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Spoken like someone who's never tried to purchase a home in certain areas of the country. In Northern Virginia, the choice was: live in a crap neighborhood in an ancient home with no HOA, or live somewhere decent in a home built in the last 30 years with an HOA. We didn't see an single home that WASN'T in a HOA.


Never understood the appeal of newer homes. Given the construction ethic if today vs the craftsmanship of 50+ years ago, I prefer the latter
 
2012-11-17 12:37:54 PM  

themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.


I have yet to find any new developments not under an HOA. As real estate tends to go UP you choices for new folks just outta college are

(1) Buy in an HOA
(2) Buy in a crappy neighborhood
(3) Buy in a older established neighborhood for 3X the money.

Now for all of us that aren't trust fund kids, that kinda puts only option (1) on the table. There are exceptions--I lived in Minneapolis Area without one in a nicer home we could afford, but 95% of the time "normal people" are gonna be in an HOA because that's where the jobs and affordable homes are.

When you move outta mom's basement, you'll understand
 
2012-11-17 12:41:10 PM  

MadMagnum: When you move outta mom's basement, you'll understand


When someone says, "If you don't like HOAs don't live in one," what I hear is, "I have never owned property in my life."
 
2012-11-17 12:44:49 PM  
I have a friend who considers his HOA to be GREAT, it keeps kids from parking cars in front of his house and all sort of other things that most people would not be bothered by or consider normal. I think he's freaking loon.

I've got two house, neither under the umbrella of an HOA - I find the city codes adequate, plus, I pay rent to the county for the land, I should be able to do anything I want.

/Amateur Radio Licensee
//why yes, those ARE antennas
///No, they won't come down.
 
2012-11-17 12:51:27 PM  
Hey, its the thread where people who want to put their car up on cinderblocks rage against the concept of private contracts.
 
2012-11-17 12:54:03 PM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Spoken like someone who's never tried to purchase a home in certain areas of the country. In Northern Virginia, the choice was: live in a crap neighborhood in an ancient home with no HOA, or live somewhere decent in a home built in the last 30 years with an HOA. We didn't see an single home that WASN'T in a HOA.


If you're that concerned about what neighborhood you live in you shouldn't have any issues with the HOA. Your probably a person who takes of mauntenence, lawn etc.

If it's your freedom you'remore concerned with move out of Virginia. Job took you there? You're not that concerned about freedom
 
2012-11-17 12:55:35 PM  
So the guy's a member of the HOA and he's suing himself?

www.andersen-andersen.com
 
2012-11-17 12:57:00 PM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: MadMagnum: When you move outta mom's basement, you'll understand

When someone says, "If you don't like HOAs don't live in one," what I hear is, "I have never owned property in my life."


I bought a house this summer and wanted a brick home in a specific neighborhood, which I found. I love this home, there's no HOA and my neighbors keep to themselves and keep their yards up. But oh God, the dogs. Bark bark bark bark bark; four houses of dogs, all barking simultaneously. I've asked the neighbors to keep it down and called animal control on the one douche who told me to piss off. I'm not a fan of HOAs but can't help thinking in this particular case, a grievance board would come in handy.
 
2012-11-17 12:58:03 PM  

GrizzlyPouch: Prank Call of Cthulhu: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Spoken like someone who's never tried to purchase a home in certain areas of the country. In Northern Virginia, the choice was: live in a crap neighborhood in an ancient home with no HOA, or live somewhere decent in a home built in the last 30 years with an HOA. We didn't see an single home that WASN'T in a HOA.

If you're that concerned about what neighborhood you live in you shouldn't have any issues with the HOA. Your probably a person who takes of mauntenence, lawn etc.

If it's your freedom you'remore concerned with move out of Virginia. Job took you there? You're not that concerned about freedom


Black and white worlds seem so simple, don't they?
 
2012-11-17 01:00:52 PM  

lilplatinum: Hey, its the thread where people who want to put their car up on cinderblocks rage against the concept of private contracts.


Pretty lame response... Just because I don't want snoopdy-snoop worrying about and having say-so about what's happening in my yard, doesn't mean I live by less than adequate standards (cut grass, keep house up to code , annoy teenagers that are loitering, etc.).

Need other noses up your anus having discussion about the color of what's coming out? Feel free to join/create your own HOA.... or maybe you like that?
 
2012-11-17 01:03:44 PM  

CasperImproved: lilplatinum: Hey, its the thread where people who want to put their car up on cinderblocks rage against the concept of private contracts.

Pretty lame response... Just because I don't want snoopdy-snoop worrying about and having say-so about what's happening in my yard, doesn't mean I live by less than adequate standards (cut grass, keep house up to code , annoy teenagers that are loitering, etc.).

Need other noses up your anus having discussion about the color of what's coming out? Feel free to join/create your own HOA.... or maybe you like that?


You seem to be missing the point: most people don't live in HOAs to have their own lives monitored but to ensure that their own quality of life isn't diminished by some foul or careless neighbor. There's good and bad that comes with exclusivity.
 
2012-11-17 01:09:02 PM  

Endive Wombat: I mean, missing one payment then it suddenly ballooning to $1300 then potentially forcing the homeowner to sell the house to settle the debt?


It didn't "suddenly balloon" to $1300, they continued to not pay their bill after the first time.
 
2012-11-17 01:12:26 PM  

Knucklepopper: CasperImproved: lilplatinum: Hey, its the thread where people who want to put their car up on cinderblocks rage against the concept of private contracts.

Pretty lame response... Just because I don't want snoopdy-snoop worrying about and having say-so about what's happening in my yard, doesn't mean I live by less than adequate standards (cut grass, keep house up to code , annoy teenagers that are loitering, etc.).

Need other noses up your anus having discussion about the color of what's coming out? Feel free to join/create your own HOA.... or maybe you like that?

You seem to be missing the point: most people don't live in HOAs to have their own lives monitored but to ensure that their own quality of life isn't diminished by some foul or careless neighbor. There's good and bad that comes with exclusivity.


I didn't miss anything my friend.. "My" quality of life is not defined by my neighbors, and when I have one that isn't acting so "neighborly" and can't be convinced that a change is appropriate, I find a local community statute that deals with the problem. I've done that for example with a neighbor that had issue with supervising his dogs, or another that needed to park in my driveway area too often.

I don't find a need to give the lil' Hitlers in the neighborhood empowerment over what the color my house is.

/There is always more then one way to skin a cat (and yes I have one so just going for the impact)
 
2012-11-17 01:13:41 PM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Spoken like someone who's never tried to purchase a home in certain areas of the country. In Northern Virginia, the choice was: live in a crap neighborhood in an ancient home with no HOA, or live somewhere decent in a home built in the last 30 years with an HOA. We didn't see an single home that WASN'T in a HOA.


Yes you did. You chose to ignore it because you wanted something shiny and new.
 
2012-11-17 01:14:31 PM  
There is an HOA in Florida that turned the golf course from public to "members only." They changed the HOA bylaws and now you are required to pay $50,000 for a membership to the golf and country club + $1,000 monthly fee's in order to buy a home in that community.

People who paid $200k+ for houses, I have seen them on the market for $30k (+$50,000 membership = $80,000 Yes, the 'membership' is more than the asking price of the house) because nobody wants to pay the insane fees, the people can't sell the house, and if you don't pay the insane fee's they put a lein on the house. Link
 
2012-11-17 01:15:38 PM  

Knucklepopper: GrizzlyPouch: Prank Call of Cthulhu: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Spoken like someone who's never tried to purchase a home in certain areas of the country. In Northern Virginia, the choice was: live in a crap neighborhood in an ancient home with no HOA, or live somewhere decent in a home built in the last 30 years with an HOA. We didn't see an single home that WASN'T in a HOA.

If you're that concerned about what neighborhood you live in you shouldn't have any issues with the HOA. Your probably a person who takes of mauntenence, lawn etc.

If it's your freedom you'remore concerned with move out of Virginia. Job took you there? You're not that concerned about freedom

Black and white worlds seem so simple, don't they?


That's how it is brotha

Wanna live with benefits that come with societal norms like jobs and HOAs you don't get to be all selectively outraged about it
 
2012-11-17 01:22:11 PM  
I do agree that there should be a limit to the power an HOA has... maybe a cap on the penalties they can charge, and a limit not allowing liens to be placed, but instead just collection agencies as the way to collect past due fines and stuff? It is truly ridiculous that they can place liens on a home for a couple hundred dollars...

This piques my interest. I think I shall study this and holler at my congresscritter about it for a while.
 
2012-11-17 01:26:47 PM  
Maybe it's just me, but my house in Memphis has a perfectly reasonable HOA. The dues are low, they mow our yards and fertilize them, even edging. We have a party with BBQ and beer twice a year, they keep our private streets in great shape. Otherwise I never hear from them except for the monthly (or quarterly?) newsletter. They approve everything reasonable. They did stop the crazy purple lady on the street from painting her house a horrid shade of purple, but I'm ok with that.

/everything she owns is purple, car, clothes, flowers
//even purple eye glass lenses
 
2012-11-17 01:27:04 PM  

7th Son of a 7th Son: So he's an LEO and doesn't abuse his power to try to fix things? That's rare normal.


Fixed
 
2012-11-17 01:29:18 PM  

tjsands1118: He_Hate_Me: Who is philosophically against class action lawsuits? It's one of the few tools left for little people to stand up against massive corporations and other entrenched interests.

Like all lawsuits, there are reasonable ones and just absurd one. People suing because of dangerous drugs with unforetold side effects, or suing for loss wages or bad working conditions if perfectly fine. But when I hear about class action suits against baseball and pokemons cards because they promote gambling for children, or suits against McDonald's for making them fat, it's just farking ridiculous. Also a lot of class action lawsuits never pay off the actual "victims" or pay a very small amount, while the lawyers get off with a large chunk of cash, usually far more then any of the people who actually suffered.

That is what I can't stand is shameless money grubbing in the name of a cause.


In Jefferson County, AL there used to be an occupational tax, meaning if you had a job in Jefferson County you were required to pay part it. Nobody liked it and it was taxation without representation but it was one of the few things keeping the county afloat after it went bankrupt from the sewer deal. Some lawyers decided to sue the county in a class action lawsuit to get rid of it and won. Now most of the Jefferson County court houses are closed because there's no money to keep them open and everyone has to wait between a minimum of 3 hours (but usually 5 or more) to get anything done at the courthouse. The lines stretch for blocks outside. And this summer it got to be over 100 degrees outside for three straight weeks.

I'm surprised the lawyers (who got the lion's share of the money the county had to refund) haven't been killed and dragged through the streets.
 
2012-11-17 01:32:00 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Warlordtrooper: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Then it should be made optional when purchasing a home

you are missing the point.
You are not just purchasing a home, you are buying into a community that is managed by a HOA. For some people, the HOA has a benefit - e.g. when your neighbors refuse to mow their lawn or decide they want to paint their house bright pink, there are ways to make sure that your property value is not adversely affected.


That's a fallacy. Case in point: housing bubble burst. No amount of rules enacted by HOAs will prevent values from crashing when the market crashes. Average sale price in the area of your house determines it's manufactured "worth". I live in a non-HOA neighborhood. My 2000 sq ft house with a pool is worth roughly $100,000 right now. There's a similar house in an HOA-controlled neighborhood (one of the nice ones, as a matter of fact) roughly 1 mile away worth $75,000. These are appraised values, not Zillow prices. The $75k one is owned by a friend of mine considering moving out of an HOA neighborhood due to the lack of benefit to being in that neighborhood. So, while your statement may work in some HOA neighborhoods (McMansion-style HOAs), the regular developments offer no property value benefit during a down housing market.

HOAs are truly evil organizations with zero concern for those living within them.
 
2012-11-17 01:32:06 PM  

Chelsea Clinton Is Carrot Top's Lost Twin: Another HOA hater thread?

[img201.imageshack.us image 600x398]

/way to stretch for that low hanging fruit, tardmitter.


Says the guy with a carrot top gag for a handle. Get bent, buttplug.
 
2012-11-17 01:32:15 PM  

CruJones: Maybe it's just me, but my house in Memphis has a perfectly reasonable HOA. The dues are low, they mow our yards and fertilize them, even edging. We have a party with BBQ and beer twice a year, they keep our private streets in great shape. Otherwise I never hear from them except for the monthly (or quarterly?) newsletter. They approve everything reasonable. They did stop the crazy purple lady on the street from painting her house a horrid shade of purple, but I'm ok with that.

/everything she owns is purple, car, clothes, flowers
//even purple eye glass lenses


So you happen to be lucky. For now. Things may change. The problem with HOAs is that right now laws are not set up to protect individual rights when HOAs go bad.

If the law limited HOAs the way state and federal constitutions limit local governments, then I would have no problem with HOAs. At the very least there should be "Homeowner Rights" made into state and federal laws that govern HOa contracts. That way the good HOAs could keep working, and people would have a way to fight bad HOAs.
 
2012-11-17 01:35:55 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Prank Call of Cthulhu: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Spoken like someone who's never tried to purchase a home in certain areas of the country. In Northern Virginia, the choice was: live in a crap neighborhood in an ancient home with no HOA, or live somewhere decent in a home built in the last 30 years with an HOA. We didn't see an single home that WASN'T in a HOA.

Yes you did. You chose to ignore it because you wanted something shiny and new.


Actually, no, no we didn't. I explained to the real estate agent my preference to be HOA-free. He suggested that would be difficult, and was correct. We looked at listings for roughly 100 homes in all. Every one of them had an HOA. It's actually a data field in the MLS listing--monthly HOA fee. None of them were zero. This was even true for some pretty crappy homes in dumpy neighborhoods. Of the dozen or so we looked at in person, needless to say all had a HOA attached.

When we bought our 20-year-old home (hardly shiny or new), it was in a neighborhood with a cheap ($90/year), not particularly active HOA. In the past nine years they've only bugged me once. That was to send a letter a couple years after we moved in saying I needed to take care of some dents in the siding. I replied back with a short letter, "Those were here before I moved in; I have photographs. Don't bug me." I never heard from them again.

GrizzlyPouch: If you're that concerned about what neighborhood you live in you shouldn't have any issues with the HOA. Your probably a person who takes of mauntenence, lawn etc.


I think this sentence speaks for itself. What kind of a crazy nutbag worries about what kind of neighborhood they live in and bothers to mow the lawn and shiat?
 
2012-11-17 01:36:24 PM  
This just in - homeowners associations are mostly made up of tight-assed, dime store Nazis who are quite sure that the association owns your home. These are window shade peepers, lip biters and dink squeezers who sound like those little purse dogs when they get wound up about your 1/4" too long front lawn. This it renting from failed TSA Nazis. This never ends well and the property values they are "protecting" seldom stack up to anything but bitter battles over whether or not the person who's name is on the lien is allowed live peaceably in their own home. Here's a hint. No. You're not. Now pay up your HOA dues for the drunk f*ck who half-assedly plows the snow and then runs and tells if your gutter is loose. Suckers.
 
2012-11-17 01:44:28 PM  

bunner: This just in - homeowners associations are mostly made up of tight-assed, dime store Nazis who are quite sure that the association owns your home. These are window shade peepers, lip biters and dink squeezers who sound like those little purse dogs when they get wound up about your 1/4" too long front lawn. This it renting from failed TSA Nazis. This never ends well and the property values they are "protecting" seldom stack up to anything but bitter battles over whether or not the person who's name is on the lien is allowed live peaceably in their own home. Here's a hint. No. You're not. Now pay up your HOA dues for the drunk f*ck who half-assedly plows the snow and then runs and tells if your gutter is loose. Suckers.



I generally agree with your sentiment if not the content. But I am at a loss for what a "dink squeezer" is. Can you enlighten me (us)?
 
2012-11-17 01:47:01 PM  

CasperImproved: But I am at a loss for what a "dink squeezer" is. Can you enlighten me


Those grubby, disheveled men sitting in their cars near school crossings? Leering at the kids? They're probably squeezing their dink. That's the allusion.
 
2012-11-17 01:56:36 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Prank Call of Cthulhu: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Spoken like someone who's never tried to purchase a home in certain areas of the country. In Northern Virginia, the choice was: live in a crap neighborhood in an ancient home with no HOA, or live somewhere decent in a home built in the last 30 years with an HOA. We didn't see an single home that WASN'T in a HOA.

Yes you did. You chose to ignore it because you wanted something shiny and new.


God forbid he wanted a house that had electrical that was up to code and no mold filled baseboards.
 
2012-11-17 01:58:14 PM  
HOA's don't make up these rules. Condo/HOA powers are usually pretty clearly encoded in state law.

Actually, NO. In most states HOAs are quasi-governmental units with no codified laws. They don't even have to obey open records laws -- ours flouted it for three years while covering up the cost of a lawsuit ... that it eventually lost.

You can always sue your HOA -- but as the guy who sued in ours and won -- "that first check you write will be for $50,000" and the HOA has the power of the checkbook behind them.
 
2012-11-17 02:00:24 PM  

ZAZ: In Massachusetts one of the papers ran a series on debt collection practices. The result was some minor changes to the law, most importantly raising the vehicle exemption from a few hundred to several thousand dollars. If your car is worth less than $7,500 the creditor can't hold it hostage as a debt collection tool.  (The trick was, seize a $2,000 car over a $300 debt, sell it for $300, charge the debtor $600 in sheriff's and auction fees, and leave the debtor $300 deeper in the hole and some friend of the sheriff $1,700 richer.)


The really good part of the story was that first-class, non-certified mail was considered sufficient by the courts for service-of-process in cases like this. The collection agency would mail notice of a lawsuit to an outdated address, then win a default judgment when the alleged debtor didn't show up to court because he had no knowledge of the suit. Funny how they could always figure out where the defendant lived when it came time to repo the car, though.
 
2012-11-17 02:21:15 PM  

Endive Wombat: I see this from two different sides...guy agreed to live in an HOA and adhere to their rules, including paying the dues.


Why is there always some dumbass, usually living in an older and more established place like Northern Virgina, who says this? This madness is going on is Arizona, which until the 1970's barely had any people in it outside Phoenix.
I'm in California, and we experience the same sh*t all the time... here a hint - unless you want to live in a van down by the river, a shack in the desert or a cardboard box, when you buy a house it will have an HOA.

There is no other choice, especially in areas which were nothing but sand and lizards less than 20 years ago. Every farking thing has an HOA. There are no older neighborhoods to go to if you want to escape this sh*t, unlike back east (where I lived for 20 years) because everything's new. You don't "agree to live in an HOA", you agree to live in a house, and that house will have an HOA.

You want a house, you either build your own or you get an HOA. That's how it is.
 
2012-11-17 02:23:36 PM  
I briefly had an HOA house which I happily sold in July. I tore off 20 pieces of rotten siding and 8 pieces of trim on aThursday. Put it all back the following Tuesday. Painted by the end of the week, including the old trim repainted. Two weeks later I get a letter about having "bad" siding. A seperate letter saying my "bad" siding needed repainting. Which it did since the siding wasn't there over a weekend. A later letter said my trim needed painting which they must have seen was done when the checked the siding. I'm sure I must have somehow pissed off some busybody during the brief time I had the house. I was so happy to get away from that place.
 
2012-11-17 02:30:41 PM  
HOAs are like old school communism. Your home belongs to them and the paperwork is only to fool you into thinking you own it.
 
2012-11-17 02:37:37 PM  

Aunt Crabby: If the law limited HOAs the way state and federal constitutions limit local governments, then I would have no problem with HOAs. At the very least there should be "Homeowner Rights" made into state and federal laws that govern HOa contracts. That way the good HOAs could keep working, and people would have a way to fight bad HOAs.


This. There needs to be some kind of standards governing HOAs. Open meetings, open records, free and fair elections. They're de facto governmental bodies in many areas of the country and should be subject to the same strictures.
 
2012-11-17 02:45:00 PM  

geekbikerskum: This. There needs to be some kind of standards governing HOAs. Open meetings, open records, free and fair elections. They're de facto governmental bodies in many areas of the country and should be subject to the same strictures.


Or, people could, like, just stop trying to find any bolt hole they can to f*ck somebody over and mow their damn lawns and mind their own business. You'd be amazed at how much pride of ownership is manifest int "those" neighborhoods where you just buy the damn house and don't act like a dick and pay the bills and things go just fine. You know, those "inner city / ring suburbs" full of brown people. Who manage to keep the neighborhoods nice without some cow firing off letters about you planting the "wrong color perennials". HOAs are largely just one more pack of tightasses wagging their fingers and shouting "YOU HAVE TO DO WHAT I SAY!" I pity people who NEED that in their life.
 
2012-11-17 02:47:48 PM  
Stories like this make me happy we live in an older (50's built) neighborhood. Really great to not have an HOA "ding us" everytime our grass isn't green enough, car isn't spotlessly clean, etc.
 
2012-11-17 03:07:53 PM  
The cop cold make life hell for the HOA nazis if he wanted to. FIrst pull one over for speeding. Doing 26 in a 25mph zone is speeding. If he smells alcohol on their breath, have them do a field sobriety test. Of course they'll fail so that gives him probable cause to search their car. When he "finds" a baggie of weed, he gets to bust them for posession. Hopefully the HOA nazi has some irrational fear of being raped in jail. San Tan villiage is in Pinal county where the sheriff is the queer who had the illegal alien boyfriend.
 
2012-11-17 03:16:55 PM  
I'm sure this pig has little pity with citizens that break the law, but he doesn't think rules apply to him..
 
2012-11-17 03:19:33 PM  

Knucklepopper: GrizzlyPouch: Prank Call of Cthulhu: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Spoken like someone who's never tried to purchase a home in certain areas of the country. In Northern Virginia, the choice was: live in a crap neighborhood in an ancient home with no HOA, or live somewhere decent in a home built in the last 30 years with an HOA. We didn't see an single home that WASN'T in a HOA.

If you're that concerned about what neighborhood you live in you shouldn't have any issues with the HOA. Your probably a person who takes of mauntenence, lawn etc.

If it's your freedom you'remore concerned with move out of Virginia. Job took you there? You're not that concerned about freedom

Black and white worlds seem so simple, don't they?


I'm always amazed at people whose crayon box comes with only two colors.
 
2012-11-17 04:00:55 PM  
fcit.usf.edu

"YOU! Move those trellises THIS high! NOW!"
 
2012-11-17 04:00:58 PM  

ZAZ: Robert contacted AAM was shocked to learn his $150 in back payments had ballooned to more than $1300.

There is nothing HOA-specific about this. You probably have a credit card or student loan agreement saying if you are a penny short or a day late they can hire the entire staff of the biggest NYC law firm to fly from Laguardia to Newark via China to stomp on you at your expense.

Fixes to the system probably have to come by statute, so these stories are useful even when the debtor is going to lose. In Massachusetts one of the papers ran a series on debt collection practices. The result was some minor changes to the law, most importantly raising the vehicle exemption from a few hundred to several thousand dollars. If your car is worth less than $7,500 the creditor can't hold it hostage as a debt collection tool.  (The trick was, seize a $2,000 car over a $300 debt, sell it for $300, charge the debtor $600 in sheriff's and auction fees, and leave the debtor $300 deeper in the hole and some friend of the sheriff $1,700 richer.)


This crap happens all the time. The lawyers know exactly what to do. During my divorce I questioned several ridiculous charges on my final bill (like $40 for postage to mail my final decree). I got put on hold, told so and so would check this and that, etc. I paid the portion I thought was fair and told them in a letter kiss my ass since no one would seem to work with me on answering my questions. Exactly 60 days past the bill date I was contact by another attorney in her same building that ballooned my bill to almost double what it was. I contacted another attorney and he ultimately said to pay them and write it off. It would cost even more to fight it and I would lose in the end. It should be criminal what they get away with.
 
2012-11-17 04:02:49 PM  
Mixed feelings on HOAs in a Townhome community such as mine they serve a real purpose, doing all the landscaping and exterior maintenance, in a community like my last one they are a pain in the ass. Sending me letters like my Mailbox is faded you must paint or replace with in 10 days.
 
2012-11-17 04:03:22 PM  

Mominator: I do agree that there should be a limit to the power an HOA has... maybe a cap on the penalties they can charge, and a limit not allowing liens to be placed, but instead just collection agencies as the way to collect past due fines and stuff? It is truly ridiculous that they can place liens on a home for a couple hundred dollars...

This piques my interest. I think I shall study this and holler at my congresscritter about it for a while.


It IS true that the only debt collection mechanism the typical HOA (like mine) has is the "nuclear weapon" of a lien on the property. And, yes, that does entail legal fees, since your attorney has to know his way around the courthouse, a little, to correctly apply one.

Not sure what "lesser" property you could attach, though. Recall that when one guy doesn't pay his fees, he's screwing over ALL his neighbors, who have to make up the shortfall.

This ain't like stiffing a giant credit card company where the losses are barely a rounding error in the balance sheet...

Also, bear in mind, if the HOA IMPROPERLY attaches a unit...they can be countersued for all sorts of things, like loss of enjoyment, tortious interference with contract, etc.
 
2012-11-17 04:05:09 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: You are not just purchasing a home, you are buying into a community that is managed by a HOA. For some people, the HOA has a benefit - e.g. when your neighbors refuse to mow their lawn or decide they want to paint their house bright pink, there are ways to make sure that your property value is not adversely affected.


In what sort of bizarre, conformist community does an unmowed lawn cause surrounding property prices to plummet?
 
2012-11-17 04:15:18 PM  
I hate Arizona yard nazis
 
2012-11-17 04:16:03 PM  
Not so much against class action lawsuits, as the slimeball lawyers that make millions and victims pennies.
 
2012-11-17 04:23:29 PM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Spoken like someone who's never tried to purchase a home in certain areas of the country. In Northern Virginia, the choice was: live in a crap neighborhood in an ancient home with no HOA, or live somewhere decent in a home built in the last 30 years with an HOA. We didn't see an single home that WASN'T in a HOA.


Come on down to Woodbridge/Dale City. Lotta perfectly fine homes down here in nice neighborhoods with good schools in the $200s with no HOA, and the shopping's better and the gas cheaper. ¡Andalé!
 
2012-11-17 04:25:31 PM  
I like my HOA. I don't participate in the voting or anything and they don't get crazy about the color of the grass, but they do request that people follow the rules they contractually agreed to follow when they signed on the dotted line to buy their house.

Homes that are in HOAs appreciate more than homes that aren't in HOAs. It's not some bizarro world where one guys unmowed lawn causes your property value to plummet. In the real world, when you are looking to buy a home and you find a nice one but then see that the next door neighbor has a dirt and weed yard, yellow and black checkerboard on the garage panels, a broken down 5th wheel in the side yard. and peeling pant and broken windows with aluminum foil covering them, most folks say, that's not where I want to plunk down my $200,000 - $400,000 investment. That's not bizarro. That's common sense that has been proven time and time again to be correct.

I could easily move 5 or 10 minutes or 20 minutes out of town with a huge lot and no HOA and put broken down cars and furniture in my front yard. There's definitely advantages to that sort of lifestyle.
 
2012-11-17 04:29:37 PM  
Earlier this year, the Leatham's management company, a Tempe business called Associated Asset Management, placed a lien on the Leatham's San Tan Valley home after the Leathams fell behind on their HOA dues.


There's something strange about that name. I can't quite put my finger on it.
 
2012-11-17 04:44:54 PM  
HOA copper finding out what its like when you're treated like shiat by bullies? cry me a river, tuna tights.
 
2012-11-17 04:54:56 PM  

themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.


This ^^^^^^^

Also, why can't he afford to pay his dues? Most 'law enforcement' employees make a decent wage right?
 
2012-11-17 05:39:17 PM  
HOAs should be banned or at least prospective home buyers should have a one time option to pay a set fee, say 5% of the property's value to remove their property from the HOA, the HOA getting the 5% if more than 50% of the houses that were in the HOA have taken the option to leave it the HOA must shut down or reorganize with the remaining members.

Serious if i buy a house its enough hassle dealing with federal , state and city/county regulations I do not need a bunch of busy bodies telling me what to do with my property.
 
2012-11-17 07:06:36 PM  

Chelsea Clinton Is Carrot Top's Lost Twin: Another HOA hater thread?

[img201.imageshack.us image 600x398]

/way to stretch for that low hanging fruit, tardmitter.


dammit! now i yawned...
 
2012-11-17 07:13:30 PM  
As a former president and vice president of an HOA, let me just say that all HOAs should be banned and anyone attempting to form one should swing from the nearest tree. I will NEVER live in a neighborhood with an HOA ever again.
 
2012-11-17 07:27:06 PM  

bilgemaster: Prank Call of Cthulhu: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Spoken like someone who's never tried to purchase a home in certain areas of the country. In Northern Virginia, the choice was: live in a crap neighborhood in an ancient home with no HOA, or live somewhere decent in a home built in the last 30 years with an HOA. We didn't see an single home that WASN'T in a HOA.

Come on down to Woodbridge/Dale City. Lotta perfectly fine homes down here in nice neighborhoods with good schools in the $200s with no HOA, and the shopping's better and the gas cheaper. ¡Andalé!


That's where I live! WTF in Woodbridge can you find a decent neighborhood with no HOA???
 
2012-11-17 07:46:12 PM  
No HOA's way out here

Could not give a huck
 
2012-11-17 08:59:44 PM  

7th Son of a 7th Son: So he's an LEO and doesn't abuse his power to try to fix things? That's rare.


.....and if it's the Robert Leatham I think it is (IPSC champion), the HOA people DO NOT want to get into a gunfight with him.
 
2012-11-17 09:04:07 PM  

CasperImproved: If you are the type of person to join an HOA, you are certainly of a type I would not want for a neighbor.


I like my well manicured HOA. It is a beautiful neighborhood.
 
2012-11-17 10:22:19 PM  

orbister: In what sort of bizarre, conformist community does an unmowed lawn cause surrounding property prices to plummet?


Because the worst nightmare for white people is having trashy neighbors, but paradoxically they're too lazy to use means other than lawn maintenance to investigate potential neighbors.

Out of curiosity, if HOAs are uniformly such rotten deals, why are they so common?
 
2012-11-18 03:34:31 AM  

LiberalEastCoastElitist: orbister: In what sort of bizarre, conformist community does an unmowed lawn cause surrounding property prices to plummet?

Because the worst nightmare for white people is having trashy neighbors, but paradoxically they're too lazy to use means other than lawn maintenance to investigate potential neighbors.

Out of curiosity, if HOAs are uniformly such rotten deals, why are they so common?


Because house builders have deep pockets, and can bribe influence local governments to go along with these deals from Satan. This is ideal for the local governments as they are now are not responsible for street repair, trash pickup and other city/county expenses for the area while collecting taxes from the residents of that area.

The moron residents, meanwhile, are being taxed twice - voluntarily - and loving it.
 
2012-11-18 05:29:37 PM  

Harry_Seldon: CasperImproved: If you are the type of person to join an HOA, you are certainly of a type I would not want for a neighbor.

I like my well manicured HOA. It is a beautiful neighborhood.


Good for you... I sincerely hope you stay there until you die.
 
2012-11-19 12:54:34 AM  

CasperImproved: Harry_Seldon: CasperImproved: If you are the type of person to join an HOA, you are certainly of a type I would not want for a neighbor.

I like my well manicured HOA. It is a beautiful neighborhood.

Good for you... I sincerely hope you stay there until you die.


I was kind of hoping for the same thing. Thank you for your kind thoughts.
 
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