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(AZ Family)   Even if you're philosophically against class action lawsuits, you secretly applaud ones against HOAs   (azfamily.com) divider line 97
    More: Spiffy, nursing student, Maya & Miguel, class-action, property management  
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11370 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Nov 2012 at 11:40 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-17 07:24:34 AM
In Sin City, when Marv is talking about how he don't feel bad doin' things to hit men... that's how I feel about HOAs and their crooked lawyers.
 
2012-11-17 07:30:48 AM
Ahh, HOAs -- where people who are abused by their bosses, spouses, children and co-workers go to be able to flout their authority when they're finally banned from Denny's for sending their Moons over My Hammy back one too many times.
 
2012-11-17 07:55:37 AM
I see this from two different sides...guy agreed to live in an HOA and adhere to their rules, including paying the dues. On the other hand, this guy could lose his home over a few back dues/crazy fees? Come on people! Totally unacceptable.

I do think that there should at least be some kind of protection for homeowners against overly aggressive HOAs. I mean, missing one payment then it suddenly ballooning to $1300 then potentially forcing the homeowner to sell the house to settle the debt? Horseshait.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-11-17 09:00:09 AM
Robert contacted AAM was shocked to learn his $150 in back payments had ballooned to more than $1300.

There is nothing HOA-specific about this. You probably have a credit card or student loan agreement saying if you are a penny short or a day late they can hire the entire staff of the biggest NYC law firm to fly from Laguardia to Newark via China to stomp on you at your expense.

Fixes to the system probably have to come by statute, so these stories are useful even when the debtor is going to lose. In Massachusetts one of the papers ran a series on debt collection practices. The result was some minor changes to the law, most importantly raising the vehicle exemption from a few hundred to several thousand dollars. If your car is worth less than $7,500 the creditor can't hold it hostage as a debt collection tool.  (The trick was, seize a $2,000 car over a $300 debt, sell it for $300, charge the debtor $600 in sheriff's and auction fees, and leave the debtor $300 deeper in the hole and some friend of the sheriff $1,700 richer.)
 
2012-11-17 09:14:38 AM

ZAZ: Robert contacted AAM was shocked to learn his $150 in back payments had ballooned to more than $1300.

There is nothing HOA-specific about this. You probably have a credit card or student loan agreement saying if you are a penny short or a day late they can hire the entire staff of the biggest NYC law firm to fly from Laguardia to Newark via China to stomp on you at your expense.

Fixes to the system probably have to come by statute, so these stories are useful even when the debtor is going to lose. In Massachusetts one of the papers ran a series on debt collection practices. The result was some minor changes to the law, most importantly raising the vehicle exemption from a few hundred to several thousand dollars. If your car is worth less than $7,500 the creditor can't hold it hostage as a debt collection tool.  (The trick was, seize a $2,000 car over a $300 debt, sell it for $300, charge the debtor $600 in sheriff's and auction fees, and leave the debtor $300 deeper in the hole and some friend of the sheriff $1,700 richer.)


The people who did that should have been shot. And not cleanly.
 
2012-11-17 11:45:40 AM
HOA's don't make up these rules. Condo/HOA powers are usually pretty clearly encoded in state law.
 
2012-11-17 11:48:02 AM

ones against HOA's


Against HOA's what? Just one HOA, then?
 
2012-11-17 11:51:26 AM

Another HOA hater thread?

img201.imageshack.us


/way to stretch for that low hanging fruit, tardmitter.
 
2012-11-17 11:52:51 AM
Neither class action lawsuits nor HOAs are intrinsically bad. Far too many of both are abusive and corrupt, causing drastically more damage than good. But one doesn't throw out people's right to sue for damages (and class action lawsuits are good for the court system and the speed of justice) any more than one throws out the right of people to willingly enter into contracts.
 
2012-11-17 11:57:17 AM

Derwood: HOA's don't make up these rules. Condo/HOA powers are usually pretty clearly encoded in state law.


FTFA:
Robert hired his own attorney, Roger Wood, who told 3 On Your Side that he's discovered thousands of liens and lawsuits that he claims were wrongfully filed against Arizona homeowners, like the Leathams.


The lawsuit says he's found 2,000 claims he says were wrongfully reported to the Recorder's Office in Maricopa County. I want to know what process the LLCs were supposed to follow.
 
2012-11-17 11:57:45 AM
HOA's exist for a reason. HOA communities typically have higher resale values because the neighborhoods are kept up and idiot neighbors are fined for breaking the rules. When you buy a house you have to sign a document that says you know there is an HOA and you agree to abide by the terms and rules. Part of that is what happens when you don't pay your dues.

Don't like it? HOA boards are elected. Next time there is an election get that seat filled by someone that agrees with you or run yourself. Most HOA meetings are every other month. Nobody shows up. Lucky if there are even enough board members to make quorum. Get involved! Change management companies if you don't like their practices. Decisions are made by those who show up.

Don't want to get involved? Pay your HOA dues or move out. Pretty simple.
 
2012-11-17 11:58:22 AM
Legalized Loan Sharking is what this is. On the one hand...pay your dues. On the other hand when the "fees" amount to 10X the actual amount due, something is beyond suspicious.

Having missed a toll bill in the mail once (Dallas Area tolls will simply mail you a bill instead of having to carry around change), I've seen how this works. I have 5 tolls that month when I missed the bill. Typically they are 50 cents or so. For each toll, i was charged an administrative fee of $6.00. So my roughly $3.50 bill became over $30.

Its no different if I pay my Home Loan online--they charge a "Fee" of $20 to process the payment...WTF!! (Yes I know they can wave it, but if the person is a dick they won't and the $20 charge is less than a late fee).

Or to transfer between bank accounts that takes three days (electronically) they charge you money and then get to use your money interest free for 3 days.

Bit of a ramble here, but the more people stand up to this BS, the less we get nickled and dimed to death. Its become so Outrageous that its clearly overboard in some areas like HOA dues/or fines (I once received a nasty gram because my lawn wasn't green enough--in JANUARY! $35 fine because ummm seasons!).

I think its time for pitchforks and tar.....Excuse me, now I have to go take my meds.
 
2012-11-17 11:58:33 AM
So he's an LEO and doesn't abuse his power to try to fix things? That's rare.
 
2012-11-17 11:59:10 AM
Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.
 
2012-11-17 12:00:37 PM
Who is philosophically against class action lawsuits? It's one of the few tools left for little people to stand up against massive corporations and other entrenched interests.
 
2012-11-17 12:09:24 PM

themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.


Then it should be made optional when purchasing a home
 
2012-11-17 12:13:21 PM

mpfjr: HOA's exist for a reason. HOA communities typically have higher resale values because the neighborhoods are kept up and idiot neighbors are fined for breaking the rules. When you buy a house you have to sign a document that says you know there is an HOA and you agree to abide by the terms and rules. Part of that is what happens when you don't pay your dues.

Don't like it? HOA boards are elected. Next time there is an election get that seat filled by someone that agrees with you or run yourself. Most HOA meetings are every other month. Nobody shows up. Lucky if there are even enough board members to make quorum. Get involved! Change management companies if you don't like their practices. Decisions are made by those who show up.

Don't want to get involved? Pay your HOA dues or move out. Pretty simple.


When a company buys 1/100th of a share and then stacks the vote for 100 'residents' tell me how that voting works for you.
 
2012-11-17 12:14:52 PM
HOAs suck. On the other hand, pay your f*cking bills and this stuff doesn't happen.
 
2012-11-17 12:16:04 PM

Warlordtrooper: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Then it should be made optional when purchasing a home


Purchasing a home under an HOA is optional.
 
2012-11-17 12:16:15 PM

Endive Wombat: I see this from two different sides...guy agreed to live in an HOA and adhere to their rules, including paying the dues. On the other hand, this guy could lose his home over a few back dues/crazy fees? Come on people! Totally unacceptable.

I do think that there should at least be some kind of protection for homeowners against overly aggressive HOAs. I mean, missing one payment then it suddenly ballooning to $1300 then potentially forcing the homeowner to sell the house to settle the debt? Horseshait.


FTFA, it does not appear that this happened "suddenly".

The lien was placed "earlier this year" for falling behind on the dues. I would guess that the dues was due back in December and then sometime in March, after trying to collect the dues for a couple of months, they filed the lien.

So almost a year later, he finds that the people who filed the lien had to spend money to do so. Surprise!
 
2012-11-17 12:16:27 PM

Warlordtrooper: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Then it should be made optional when purchasing a home


It is. I purchased a home without an HOA. Mainly because of things like this.
I mow my lawn, rake my leaves, and keep my house clean. My neighbors do the same... mostly.
 
2012-11-17 12:16:36 PM

Warlordtrooper: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Then it should be made optional when purchasing a home


It is completely optional. When you are buying a house you get to choose which house to buy. Don't buy in an HOA controlled development.
 
2012-11-17 12:16:53 PM

Knucklepopper: Derwood: HOA's don't make up these rules. Condo/HOA powers are usually pretty clearly encoded in state law.

FTFA:
Robert hired his own attorney, Roger Wood, who told 3 On Your Side that he's discovered thousands of liens and lawsuits that he claims were wrongfully filed against Arizona homeowners, like the Leathams.


The lawsuit says he's found 2,000 claims he says were wrongfully reported to the Recorder's Office in Maricopa County. I want to know what process the LLCs were supposed to follow.


Good luck in the corrupt land of Sherrif farkin' Joe. Unless you are over 80.
 
2012-11-17 12:18:09 PM

Warlordtrooper: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Then it should be made optional when purchasing a home


It is. Don't buy in a place where HOA membership is required.
 
2012-11-17 12:22:15 PM

Warlordtrooper: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Then it should be made optional when purchasing a home


you are missing the point.
You are not just purchasing a home, you are buying into a community that is managed by a HOA. For some people, the HOA has a benefit - e.g. when your neighbors refuse to mow their lawn or decide they want to paint their house bright pink, there are ways to make sure that your property value is not adversely affected.
 
2012-11-17 12:22:42 PM
If you are the type of person to join an HOA, you are certainly of a type I would not want for a neighbor.
 
2012-11-17 12:22:54 PM
I hate these threads! HOAs can have more legal power than local or state governments. Consider:

How do you fight a HOA that can change the bylaws that govern your relationship?

What good does it do to get a single person elected to the board when the bylaws may state that any member of the board may be discharged without cause by a majority of the board?

Where do you get the war chest to fight a HOA that has the dues from 1,000 to 25,000 (New Jersey) homeowners?

What can you do when a HOA changes the fine rules to allow any fine deemed necessary to ensure compliance (Spring Ridge, New Jersey)?

Where can you find a competent HOA lawyer to represent you when it may mean that he's sabotaging his own potent future business with HOAs?

The love-it-or-leave-it argument ignores the reality that if all you can afford - or want responsibility for - is a condominium then you will be getting a HOA.

In my experience, the best way to decide is to go to the development on a Saturday and ask current owners what they think.
 
2012-11-17 12:23:31 PM

themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.


I agree--I would never live under one. However, many people find that all affordable housing in the area where that have a job or need to live have been developed with HOAs. For them, there is a choice, but a rather limited one. The fact the HOAs use contracts to act as local governments means we need laws to insure individual rights are preserved over HOA boards and contracts. If it acts like a local government, it should have the same limits and responsibilities as actual local governments.
 
2012-11-17 12:26:39 PM
Now that I'm off my board, sue away.
 
2012-11-17 12:28:04 PM

themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.


Spoken like someone who's never tried to purchase a home in certain areas of the country. In Northern Virginia, the choice was: live in a crap neighborhood in an ancient home with no HOA, or live somewhere decent in a home built in the last 30 years with an HOA. We didn't see an single home that WASN'T in a HOA.
 
2012-11-17 12:30:00 PM

Lost_in_Oregon:
The love-it-or-leave-it argument ignores the reality that if all you can afford - or want responsibility for - is a condominium then you will be getting a HOA.

 

img src="first_world_problems.jpg"
 
2012-11-17 12:30:06 PM
HOA's seem to be filled with people that have "Little Dictator" syndrome, they also have some of the most ridiculous 'rules' I've ever heard of. I don't see how telling someone in the neighborhood that they can't have a flag/flagpole or treehouse or their personal choice of paint color on their house is beneficial to homeowners. This is the height of 'Busybody' neighbors forcing everyone else to do things "THEIR" way. Bunch of Nazis...

I understand that the majority of people that end up in neighborhoods that have HOA's move into them after the HOA has been established but I have heard of neighborhoods changing over to an HOA and people in the neighborhood that don't want to be a part of it being 'out voted' and then stuck with rules and fees that they do not want and voted against. How is that even remotely fair OR legal? They should be able to "Opt Out" of an HOA if they do not agree to be a part of it!

Personally I think HOA's are pretty stupid and should only be allowed to form if EVERY SINGLE PERSON in the neighborhood agrees to it: not unanimous = no HOA!  Prospective new home buyers should also make sure that they know EXACTLY what the rules and fees are so they can make an informed decision.
 
2012-11-17 12:33:00 PM
Really, it all adds up to doing the research before signing on the dotted line.

When I bought my last house, I looked very carefully at the HOA terms, and really they weren't too onerous, so I bit the bullet and signed. As it happened, the developer still controlled the HOA long after they were supposed to, and didn't make a fuss when they left, so our HOA pretty much went away without a fuss. One person tried to resurrect it, mostly to get their neighbors with dogs to complete their fence, but everyone expressed a total lack of interest in organizing it. Hooray for apathy!
 
2012-11-17 12:33:11 PM

He_Hate_Me: Who is philosophically against class action lawsuits? It's one of the few tools left for little people to stand up against massive corporations and other entrenched interests.


Like all lawsuits, there are reasonable ones and just absurd one. People suing because of dangerous drugs with unforetold side effects, or suing for loss wages or bad working conditions if perfectly fine. But when I hear about class action suits against baseball and pokemons cards because they promote gambling for children, or suits against McDonald's for making them fat, it's just farking ridiculous. Also a lot of class action lawsuits never pay off the actual "victims" or pay a very small amount, while the lawyers get off with a large chunk of cash, usually far more then any of the people who actually suffered.

That is what I can't stand is shameless money grubbing in the name of a cause.
 
2012-11-17 12:35:32 PM
find the orginal bill pay the 100 bucks or what ever.
Tell them to get f$$$ for the rest.
 
2012-11-17 12:37:06 PM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Spoken like someone who's never tried to purchase a home in certain areas of the country. In Northern Virginia, the choice was: live in a crap neighborhood in an ancient home with no HOA, or live somewhere decent in a home built in the last 30 years with an HOA. We didn't see an single home that WASN'T in a HOA.


Never understood the appeal of newer homes. Given the construction ethic if today vs the craftsmanship of 50+ years ago, I prefer the latter
 
2012-11-17 12:37:54 PM

themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.


I have yet to find any new developments not under an HOA. As real estate tends to go UP you choices for new folks just outta college are

(1) Buy in an HOA
(2) Buy in a crappy neighborhood
(3) Buy in a older established neighborhood for 3X the money.

Now for all of us that aren't trust fund kids, that kinda puts only option (1) on the table. There are exceptions--I lived in Minneapolis Area without one in a nicer home we could afford, but 95% of the time "normal people" are gonna be in an HOA because that's where the jobs and affordable homes are.

When you move outta mom's basement, you'll understand
 
2012-11-17 12:41:10 PM

MadMagnum: When you move outta mom's basement, you'll understand


When someone says, "If you don't like HOAs don't live in one," what I hear is, "I have never owned property in my life."
 
2012-11-17 12:44:49 PM
I have a friend who considers his HOA to be GREAT, it keeps kids from parking cars in front of his house and all sort of other things that most people would not be bothered by or consider normal. I think he's freaking loon.

I've got two house, neither under the umbrella of an HOA - I find the city codes adequate, plus, I pay rent to the county for the land, I should be able to do anything I want.

/Amateur Radio Licensee
//why yes, those ARE antennas
///No, they won't come down.
 
2012-11-17 12:51:27 PM
Hey, its the thread where people who want to put their car up on cinderblocks rage against the concept of private contracts.
 
2012-11-17 12:54:03 PM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Spoken like someone who's never tried to purchase a home in certain areas of the country. In Northern Virginia, the choice was: live in a crap neighborhood in an ancient home with no HOA, or live somewhere decent in a home built in the last 30 years with an HOA. We didn't see an single home that WASN'T in a HOA.


If you're that concerned about what neighborhood you live in you shouldn't have any issues with the HOA. Your probably a person who takes of mauntenence, lawn etc.

If it's your freedom you'remore concerned with move out of Virginia. Job took you there? You're not that concerned about freedom
 
2012-11-17 12:55:35 PM
So the guy's a member of the HOA and he's suing himself?

www.andersen-andersen.com
 
2012-11-17 12:57:00 PM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: MadMagnum: When you move outta mom's basement, you'll understand

When someone says, "If you don't like HOAs don't live in one," what I hear is, "I have never owned property in my life."


I bought a house this summer and wanted a brick home in a specific neighborhood, which I found. I love this home, there's no HOA and my neighbors keep to themselves and keep their yards up. But oh God, the dogs. Bark bark bark bark bark; four houses of dogs, all barking simultaneously. I've asked the neighbors to keep it down and called animal control on the one douche who told me to piss off. I'm not a fan of HOAs but can't help thinking in this particular case, a grievance board would come in handy.
 
2012-11-17 12:58:03 PM

GrizzlyPouch: Prank Call of Cthulhu: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Spoken like someone who's never tried to purchase a home in certain areas of the country. In Northern Virginia, the choice was: live in a crap neighborhood in an ancient home with no HOA, or live somewhere decent in a home built in the last 30 years with an HOA. We didn't see an single home that WASN'T in a HOA.

If you're that concerned about what neighborhood you live in you shouldn't have any issues with the HOA. Your probably a person who takes of mauntenence, lawn etc.

If it's your freedom you'remore concerned with move out of Virginia. Job took you there? You're not that concerned about freedom


Black and white worlds seem so simple, don't they?
 
2012-11-17 01:00:52 PM

lilplatinum: Hey, its the thread where people who want to put their car up on cinderblocks rage against the concept of private contracts.


Pretty lame response... Just because I don't want snoopdy-snoop worrying about and having say-so about what's happening in my yard, doesn't mean I live by less than adequate standards (cut grass, keep house up to code , annoy teenagers that are loitering, etc.).

Need other noses up your anus having discussion about the color of what's coming out? Feel free to join/create your own HOA.... or maybe you like that?
 
2012-11-17 01:03:44 PM

CasperImproved: lilplatinum: Hey, its the thread where people who want to put their car up on cinderblocks rage against the concept of private contracts.

Pretty lame response... Just because I don't want snoopdy-snoop worrying about and having say-so about what's happening in my yard, doesn't mean I live by less than adequate standards (cut grass, keep house up to code , annoy teenagers that are loitering, etc.).

Need other noses up your anus having discussion about the color of what's coming out? Feel free to join/create your own HOA.... or maybe you like that?


You seem to be missing the point: most people don't live in HOAs to have their own lives monitored but to ensure that their own quality of life isn't diminished by some foul or careless neighbor. There's good and bad that comes with exclusivity.
 
2012-11-17 01:09:02 PM

Endive Wombat: I mean, missing one payment then it suddenly ballooning to $1300 then potentially forcing the homeowner to sell the house to settle the debt?


It didn't "suddenly balloon" to $1300, they continued to not pay their bill after the first time.
 
2012-11-17 01:12:26 PM

Knucklepopper: CasperImproved: lilplatinum: Hey, its the thread where people who want to put their car up on cinderblocks rage against the concept of private contracts.

Pretty lame response... Just because I don't want snoopdy-snoop worrying about and having say-so about what's happening in my yard, doesn't mean I live by less than adequate standards (cut grass, keep house up to code , annoy teenagers that are loitering, etc.).

Need other noses up your anus having discussion about the color of what's coming out? Feel free to join/create your own HOA.... or maybe you like that?

You seem to be missing the point: most people don't live in HOAs to have their own lives monitored but to ensure that their own quality of life isn't diminished by some foul or careless neighbor. There's good and bad that comes with exclusivity.


I didn't miss anything my friend.. "My" quality of life is not defined by my neighbors, and when I have one that isn't acting so "neighborly" and can't be convinced that a change is appropriate, I find a local community statute that deals with the problem. I've done that for example with a neighbor that had issue with supervising his dogs, or another that needed to park in my driveway area too often.

I don't find a need to give the lil' Hitlers in the neighborhood empowerment over what the color my house is.

/There is always more then one way to skin a cat (and yes I have one so just going for the impact)
 
2012-11-17 01:13:41 PM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: themeaningoflifeisnot: Don't like HOAs? Don't choose to live under one.

Spoken like someone who's never tried to purchase a home in certain areas of the country. In Northern Virginia, the choice was: live in a crap neighborhood in an ancient home with no HOA, or live somewhere decent in a home built in the last 30 years with an HOA. We didn't see an single home that WASN'T in a HOA.


Yes you did. You chose to ignore it because you wanted something shiny and new.
 
2012-11-17 01:14:31 PM
There is an HOA in Florida that turned the golf course from public to "members only." They changed the HOA bylaws and now you are required to pay $50,000 for a membership to the golf and country club + $1,000 monthly fee's in order to buy a home in that community.

People who paid $200k+ for houses, I have seen them on the market for $30k (+$50,000 membership = $80,000 Yes, the 'membership' is more than the asking price of the house) because nobody wants to pay the insane fees, the people can't sell the house, and if you don't pay the insane fee's they put a lein on the house. Link
 
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