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(CNN) Video Live CNN discussion between an Israeli and a Palestinian. Israeli: They are intentionally targetting civilians, and we do not do that. Palestinian: "Well. I :BOOM:: BOOM: :BOOM: ++++ NO CARRIER +++"   (cnn.com) divider line 275
    More: Video, Israelis, Palestinians, NO CARRIER  
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9190 clicks; posted to Video » on 16 Nov 2012 at 7:13 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-16 07:16:52 PM
Chilling.
 
2012-11-16 07:17:49 PM
I was going to chastise subby for being sensational, but it actually happened at the end. Glad the guy was alright.
 
2012-11-16 07:20:07 PM
so when is Egypt going to light the already burning powder keg?
 
2012-11-16 07:20:10 PM
Best strategy for both sides: Israel stops building settlements, lightens the blockade to allow aid and stops trying to block the PLO in the UN. This would take away some of Hamas' justification for violence and raise global sympathy for Israel. At the same time, Abbas could that window to push for non-violent resistance and counter terrorist messaging.

Chances of that happening without serious pressure from the US on Israel...0.
 
2012-11-16 07:20:26 PM
Holy fark. The guy says "You can hear what's happening and I'm not going to comment on that. We need to get past 'Who's the victim and who's the victimizer'--we need to get that out of the way and get on with things."

CNN: "Wait--what was that sound?"

"Those were Israeli warplanes bombing Gaza, but I'm not going to comment on that. I'm not going to let it interrupt this debate."

Wow. Hope I someday have brassies like this guy.
 
2012-11-16 07:20:57 PM

YouAreItNoTagBacks: Best strategy for both sides: Israel stops building settlements, lightens the blockade to allow aid and stops trying to block the PLO in the UN. This would take away some of Hamas' justification for violence and raise global sympathy for Israel. At the same time, Abbas could use that window to push for non-violent resistance and counter terrorist messaging.

Chances of that happening without serious pressure from the US on Israel...0.


FTFM
 
2012-11-16 07:21:13 PM
Pass the popcorn. The biblical savages are at it again!
Quick! - how can we get involved and spend a bunch of money and get some Americans killed fixing their problems for them?
 
2012-11-16 07:21:14 PM
Is this Obama's fault?
 
2012-11-16 07:21:22 PM
I only clicked the link because it had "seshay" and "strip" in the URL.

Now I'm running faarrrrrrrrr away from this thread.
 
2012-11-16 07:21:23 PM
The Palestinian guy was, obviously, living in a military bunker.
 
2012-11-16 07:21:46 PM
Someone's winning and award for that one.

Which really just says it all about OUR emotional involvement.
 
2012-11-16 07:22:48 PM

sophus_tree: Holy fark. The guy says "You can hear what's happening and I'm not going to comment on that. We need to get past 'Who's the victim and who's the victimizer'--we need to get that out of the way and get on with things."

CNN: "Wait--what was that sound?"

"Those were Israeli warplanes bombing Gaza, but I'm not going to comment on that. I'm not going to let it interrupt this debate."

Wow. Hope I someday have brassies like this guy.


Yeah that was pretty awesome. He's trying to have a debate an the Israeli guy is just rattling off the ages of his daughters and grandparents....

As aside, who was that incredibly hot news anchor?!? My god she's gorgeous...
 
2012-11-16 07:22:49 PM

Granny_Panties: Is this Obama's fault?


Why, ab-so-lutely! Somebody give the little lady a Kewpie doll!
 
2012-11-16 07:23:10 PM
THIS IS NOT AN AMERICAN ISSUE

Stop it

Stop politicizing this crap

This is NOT a left/right issue

Stop making it one
 
2012-11-16 07:24:07 PM

sophus_tree: Holy fark. The guy says "You can hear what's happening and I'm not going to comment on that. We need to get past 'Who's the victim and who's the victimizer'--we need to get that out of the way and get on with things."

CNN: "Wait--what was that sound?"

"Those were Israeli warplanes bombing Gaza, but I'm not going to comment on that. I'm not going to let it interrupt this debate."

Wow. Hope I someday have brassies like this guy.


That guys seriously wins a ton of cred. To keep his cool and want to stay on message while getting bombed straight to fark is impressive.

Also, absolutely nobody believes that the Israelis are going to not hurt any civilians. That's ridiculous. I'd go so far as to say they're not intentionally targeting major civilian targets, sure, they're not monsters. But they're bombing the place - they're gonna get civilians.
 
2012-11-16 07:24:45 PM

cman: THIS IS NOT AN AMERICAN ISSUE

Stop it

Stop politicizing this crap

This is NOT a left/right issue

Stop making it one


Are you in the right thread?
 
2012-11-16 07:24:57 PM
I find it more than a little ironic that a Google ad featuring Wagner's Flight of the Valkyries played just prior to the video, considering that song's traditional use in media.
 
2012-11-16 07:25:53 PM

DeltaPunch:

As aside, who was that incredibly hot news anchor?!? My god she's gorgeous...


and that accent....
 
2012-11-16 07:26:06 PM

Granny_Panties: Is this Obama's fault?


This is Obama's Benghazi-gate.

/or something.
 
2012-11-16 07:26:20 PM

DeltaPunch: As aside, who was that incredibly hot news anchor?!? My god she's gorgeous...


Isha Sesay.

And, yes, she is gorgeous.
 
2012-11-16 07:27:56 PM

DeltaPunch: As aside, who was that incredibly hot news anchor?!? My god she's gorgeous...


Issa Seshay, Anderson Cooper's anchor-beard.

/meow
//about Seshay, not Anderson
///well...
 
2012-11-16 07:29:07 PM
Isha Sesay is a British journalist of Sierra Leonean descent.

Why yes, I'd recognize that blend of accents right away.
 
2012-11-16 07:29:42 PM

LasersHurt: cman: THIS IS NOT AN AMERICAN ISSUE

Stop it

Stop politicizing this crap

This is NOT a left/right issue

Stop making it one

Are you in the right thread?


Nah, he was looking for one of the Twinkie threads.
 
2012-11-16 07:29:46 PM
Just curious, but how does our undying support of Israel stack up legally? Isn't that expressed consent and approval of one particular religion? Just wondering.
 
2012-11-16 07:31:07 PM

LasersHurt:

Also, absolutely nobody believes that the Israelis are going to not hurt any civilians. That's ridiculous. I'd go so far as to say they're not intentionally targeting major civilian targets, sure, they're not monsters. But they're bombing the place - they're gonna get civilians.


Two things there..

There IS a difference between targeting civilians and simply not giving a fark or making any effort to avoid them, but it isn't a huge difference in the end.
A non-trivial faction in Israel considers ALL Palestinians to be legitimate military targets. Just as a (probably larger) faction in the Palestinian population thinks all Israelis are legitimate military targets.

There is plenty of revulsion to go around unfortunately
 
2012-11-16 07:32:14 PM

TheBitterest: Just curious, but how does our undying support of Israel stack up legally? Isn't that expressed consent and approval of one particular religion? Just wondering.


Officially we support our ally the nation of Israel.
 
2012-11-16 07:32:17 PM
"What's going through your mind right now?"
**BOOM**

Um, very nearly his ass, apparently.
 
2012-11-16 07:33:05 PM
So the argument is that the Palesitninas are incompetent boobs who can't aim a missile and are killing people by sheer blind luck, while the Israelis with their superior military must be deliberately targeting women and children?

Gotcha, asshole.
 
2012-11-16 07:33:37 PM

TheBitterest: Just curious, but how does our undying support of Israel stack up legally? Isn't that expressed consent and approval of one particular religion? Just wondering.


Somehow, you managed to figure out the one thing that isn't wrong with our "alliance" (what a fooking joke) with Israel.
 
2012-11-16 07:33:40 PM

gaspode: LasersHurt:

Also, absolutely nobody believes that the Israelis are going to not hurt any civilians. That's ridiculous. I'd go so far as to say they're not intentionally targeting major civilian targets, sure, they're not monsters. But they're bombing the place - they're gonna get civilians.

Two things there..

There IS a difference between targeting civilians and simply not giving a fark or making any effort to avoid them, but it isn't a huge difference in the end.
A non-trivial faction in Israel considers ALL Palestinians to be legitimate military targets. Just as a (probably larger) faction in the Palestinian population thinks all Israelis are legitimate military targets.

There is plenty of revulsion to go around unfortunately


Quite true. It's not like the guys firing rockets from Gaza are carefully targeting. But as you said, lots of Israelis (and Americans and other assorted morons) think any Palestinian is fair game.

This isn't going to be pleasant for anyone, but I guarantee I know who comes out of this a LOT worse in the end.
 
2012-11-16 07:33:52 PM
I really wish Israel would stop being played for fools and go after the real source. Assad's back is to the wall. Take him out, hand the country over to the Kurds in exchange for dismantling their terrorist puppets.

Hamas is purely Syria's tool. They are distracting the Israelis from the cross-border activity earlier.
 
2012-11-16 07:35:33 PM

gaspode:

There is plenty of revulsion to go around unfortunately


This. Is either side completely right or completely wrong? No. Will there be innocent human casualities? Yes.

All that said, I assure you all that more Palestinians will die than Israelis. That is not a condemnation of Israel, but it is entirely likely based on history.
 
2012-11-16 07:38:39 PM

gaspode: LasersHurt:

Also, absolutely nobody believes that the Israelis are going to not hurt any civilians. That's ridiculous. I'd go so far as to say they're not intentionally targeting major civilian targets, sure, they're not monsters. But they're bombing the place - they're gonna get civilians.

Two things there..

There IS a difference between targeting civilians and simply not giving a fark or making any effort to avoid them, but it isn't a huge difference in the end.
A non-trivial faction in Israel considers ALL Palestinians to be legitimate military targets. Just as a (probably larger) faction in the Palestinian population thinks all Israelis are legitimate military targets.

There is plenty of revulsion to go around unfortunately


There's also a huge difference in technology - the Palestinians are using WW2-era low-tech rockets, fired in that general direction over there and uncontrollable after launch.

The Israelis are firing guided missiles from state-of-the-art helicopters and airplanes, or dropping bombs from aircraft with computer-aided target systems. They are able to put a missile into a single specific window on a building if they want to. That the bombs and missiles and missiles are hitting all over Gaza is not an accident.

I'm not taking sides with that comment - it's the reality of the situation.
 
2012-11-16 07:42:25 PM
I don't think Israel is intentionally targeting civilians, but I don't think they really give a fark if they kill a few by accident.
 
2012-11-16 07:42:44 PM

bulldg4life: DeltaPunch: As aside, who was that incredibly hot news anchor?!? My god she's gorgeous...

Isha Sesay.

And, yes, she is gorgeous.


Gracias... off to teh googles...
 
2012-11-16 07:42:54 PM
To farking hell with the both of them. Palestinians sure as shiat target civilians because they fire rockets nilly-willy wherever they go. Israelis are assholes because if 3 Israelis are killed, they kill 1500 Palestinian 'militants'.

fark them both in the ass. Go to war, you are on your own. FOAD and EABOD.
 
2012-11-16 07:43:07 PM

clambam: So the argument is that the Palesitninas are incompetent boobs who can't aim a missile and are killing people by sheer blind luck, while the Israelis with their superior military must be deliberately targeting women and children?

Gotcha, asshole.




I think the argument from the left is that Israel is killing many people who are already afraid of Hamas and have no where to turn.
 
2012-11-16 07:44:01 PM
It's pretty telling that he's so used to bombs going off right outside his home.
 
JFC
2012-11-16 07:45:06 PM
So.
What was with the photos of children and elderly folk while the Israeli was talking?
What was the point of that?
 
2012-11-16 07:45:17 PM
i575.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-16 07:46:01 PM

theknuckler_33: To farking hell with the both of them. Palestinians sure as shiat target civilians because they fire rockets nilly-willy wherever they go. Israelis are assholes because if 3 Israelis are killed, they kill 1500 Palestinian 'militants'.

fark them both in the ass. Go to war, you are on your own. FOAD and EABOD.


Point of order here: the Palestinian rockets are hardly capable of being aimed. I will not speculate as to whether it would make a difference. Probably not, as neither side seems interested in avoiding civilian casualities.
 
2012-11-16 07:47:16 PM
So... both sides are bad? What should I do?
 
2012-11-16 07:47:45 PM

JFC: So.
What was with the photos of children and elderly folk while the Israeli was talking?
What was the point of that?


To show that Israel can do no wrong.
 
2012-11-16 07:47:56 PM

btchin trans-am: So... both sides are bad? What should I do?


Vote Republican?
 
2012-11-16 07:50:08 PM

Blue_Blazer: theknuckler_33: To farking hell with the both of them. Palestinians sure as shiat target civilians because they fire rockets nilly-willy wherever they go. Israelis are assholes because if 3 Israelis are killed, they kill 1500 Palestinian 'militants'.

fark them both in the ass. Go to war, you are on your own. FOAD and EABOD.

Point of order here: the Palestinian rockets are hardly capable of being aimed. I will not speculate as to whether it would make a difference. Probably not, as neither side seems interested in avoiding civilian casualities.


That was the point, they don't have weapons sophisticated enough to aim precisely at military targets, they just fire off rockets towards the nearest towns/cities. And, frankly, I don't blame them.
 
2012-11-16 07:51:15 PM

El Pachuco: gaspode: LasersHurt:

Also, absolutely nobody believes that the Israelis are going to not hurt any civilians. That's ridiculous. I'd go so far as to say they're not intentionally targeting major civilian targets, sure, they're not monsters. But they're bombing the place - they're gonna get civilians.

Two things there..

There IS a difference between targeting civilians and simply not giving a fark or making any effort to avoid them, but it isn't a huge difference in the end.
A non-trivial faction in Israel considers ALL Palestinians to be legitimate military targets. Just as a (probably larger) faction in the Palestinian population thinks all Israelis are legitimate military targets.

There is plenty of revulsion to go around unfortunately

There's also a huge difference in technology - the Palestinians are using WW2-era low-tech rockets, fired in that general direction over there and uncontrollable after launch.

The Israelis are firing guided missiles from state-of-the-art helicopters and airplanes, or dropping bombs from aircraft with computer-aided target systems. They are able to put a missile into a single specific window on a building if they want to. That the bombs and missiles and missiles are hitting all over Gaza is not an accident.

I'm not taking sides with that comment - it's the reality of the situation.


Add in the "Hamas is using civilian structures and civilians as human shields" factor and it becomes very easy to write off casualities. Not sure how often it's true, but seems possible if the people launching rockets are members of the region who are militarized by the living conditions, religion, or other motivating factors; they could be using their homes as improv launch platforms. Unless it's fixed, they make an apartment complex a military target by wanting to launch from the high ground.
 
2012-11-16 07:51:23 PM
We need Gazan boat lift. Bring them to Miami.
 
2012-11-16 07:51:56 PM

GAT_00: JFC: So.
What was with the photos of children and elderly folk while the Israeli was talking?
What was the point of that?

To show that Israel can do no wrong.


It would only have been more amusing if while the Palestinian was talking that they showed militants with grenade launchers and machine guns and their head wraps (don't know the proper name for that).
 
2012-11-16 07:56:16 PM

theknuckler_33: Blue_Blazer: theknuckler_33: To farking hell with the both of them. Palestinians sure as shiat target civilians because they fire rockets nilly-willy wherever they go. Israelis are assholes because if 3 Israelis are killed, they kill 1500 Palestinian 'militants'.

fark them both in the ass. Go to war, you are on your own. FOAD and EABOD.

Point of order here: the Palestinian rockets are hardly capable of being aimed. I will not speculate as to whether it would make a difference. Probably not, as neither side seems interested in avoiding civilian casualities.

That was the point, they don't have weapons sophisticated enough to aim precisely at military targets, they just fire off rockets towards the nearest towns/cities. And, frankly, I don't blame them.


Fair enough, but it kinda sounded like you were suggesting they intentionally fire rockets at civilians. I judt wanted to make it clear that they don't really fire them AT anything, they just point them in a direction and shoot. Not that I am defending that.
 
2012-11-16 07:57:59 PM

GAT_00: [i575.photobucket.com image 453x604]


Damn, what a shiatty life you have. Have you considered emigrating to one of those other 20 countries where people have exactly the same religion and speak exactly the same language you do, and have one million square miles of mostly empty territory in which to resettle you? No? How about that country right next door, Jordan, which is already 60% Palestinian Arab and which was actually your homeland until 1967? No? The only place you'll accept is the 6,000 square miles of territory in Israel, the one your grandparents emigrated to in the 1920's specifically to keep Jews out? I understand perfectly, you poor thing. Those five million mean ol' Jews are mistreating all 300 million of you innocent Arabs. You poor, poor losers.
 
2012-11-16 07:58:57 PM
Just go back to pre-1967 borders and end the BS already. This has gone on way too long.
i.imgur.com
 
2012-11-16 07:59:49 PM

theknuckler_33: Blue_Blazer: theknuckler_33: To farking hell with the both of them. Palestinians sure as shiat target civilians because they fire rockets nilly-willy wherever they go. Israelis are assholes because if 3 Israelis are killed, they kill 1500 Palestinian 'militants'.

fark them both in the ass. Go to war, you are on your own. FOAD and EABOD.

Point of order here: the Palestinian rockets are hardly capable of being aimed. I will not speculate as to whether it would make a difference. Probably not, as neither side seems interested in avoiding civilian casualities.

That was the point, they don't have weapons sophisticated enough to aim precisely at military targets, they just fire off rockets towards the nearest towns/cities. And, frankly, I don't blame them.


What is accomplished in doing so though? I mean, is it the equivalent of blowing off steam?

I don't understand how it moves forward on any strategic military goals, they're not taking anything over, they're not clearing a hole in the wall to lead a counter-force through, and they aren't engendering anyone to want to sit and discuss how to make something better once they land rockets in Isreal.

I don't know what the good solutions are, but I don't see how lobbing unaimable rockets at random is anything other than bringing the wrath of a titan back upon them. It would be like being in prison and punching a guard because I'm pissed about being there (there's even an argument that I might be imprisoned unjustly)... I may hurt him ever so slightly, but he then has every ability to respond with unchecked force and will be seen as having some justification in doing so. Furthermore it hurts me when I'm standing in court trying to argue my case.
 
2012-11-16 08:00:53 PM

clambam: those other 20 countries where people have exactly the same religion and speak exactly the same language you do


You know how I know you never studied Arabic or Arabic culture?
 
2012-11-16 08:00:56 PM

2xhelix: Just go back to pre-1967 borders and end the BS already. This has gone on way too long.
[i.imgur.com image 850x609]


Something is wrong with those maps. They are missing the Golan heights annexation.
 
2012-11-16 08:02:06 PM
They all need to have their toys taken away.
Nobody in the region is innocent.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2012-11-16 08:02:26 PM
a no carrier joke on Fark in 2012?
 
2012-11-16 08:03:55 PM
We must protect Israel so our Lord and Savior can return. Even if it means murdering hundreds of Palestinian civilians. Jesus won't care right? He'll be cool with our support of some third world hellhole killing innocent civilians who only want their fair share of that "paradise", right?
/Fark Israel
//Fark your lord and savior
///Stop supporting Israel "at all costs".
////I have Jewish roots, but I wouldn't call myself a Jew
 
2012-11-16 08:04:16 PM
d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net
 
2012-11-16 08:04:40 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: They all need to have their toys taken away.
Nobody in the region is innocent.


Nobody? I'd say no government in the region is innocent, but I would not paint the entire populace with the same brush.
 
2012-11-16 08:05:15 PM

Blue_Blazer: theknuckler_33: Blue_Blazer: theknuckler_33: To farking hell with the both of them. Palestinians sure as shiat target civilians because they fire rockets nilly-willy wherever they go. Israelis are assholes because if 3 Israelis are killed, they kill 1500 Palestinian 'militants'.

fark them both in the ass. Go to war, you are on your own. FOAD and EABOD.

Point of order here: the Palestinian rockets are hardly capable of being aimed. I will not speculate as to whether it would make a difference. Probably not, as neither side seems interested in avoiding civilian casualities.

That was the point, they don't have weapons sophisticated enough to aim precisely at military targets, they just fire off rockets towards the nearest towns/cities. And, frankly, I don't blame them.

Fair enough, but it kinda sounded like you were suggesting they intentionally fire rockets at civilians. I judt wanted to make it clear that they don't really fire them AT anything, they just point them in a direction and shoot. Not that I am defending that.


Yea, it's hard for me to distinguish between firing blind and hitting whatever and 'targeting civilians'. Besides, the Israelis have their own argument against 'targeting civilians' anyway. so, what difference does it make? Like I said, fark 'em both. I'm 44 years old and this shiat has been going on since I've been paying attention to international relations when I was a teenager and this shiat was WAY OLD even then. I suppose you could point to the formation of Israel as the starting point, but... I'm having a hard time even buying that. There will never be peace in the middle east. We should just accept it and if for no other reason, that should be a reason for the US to pursue all forms of domestic energy production to entirely eliminate our dependence on the middle east. But the GOP's love affair with Israel requires us to be involved there and the idea of some sort of peace there just delays the realization that that will never happen and further inhibit our becoming energy independent.
 
2012-11-16 08:05:58 PM

clambam: GAT_00: [i575.photobucket.com image 453x604]

Damn, what a shiatty life you have. Have you considered emigrating to one of those other 20 countries where people have exactly the same religion and speak exactly the same language you do, and have one million square miles of mostly empty territory in which to resettle you? No? How about that country right next door, Jordan, which is already 60% Palestinian Arab and which was actually your homeland until 1967? No? The only place you'll accept is the 6,000 square miles of territory in Israel, the one your grandparents emigrated to in the 1920's specifically to keep Jews out? I understand perfectly, you poor thing. Those five million mean ol' Jews are mistreating all 300 million of you innocent Arabs. You poor, poor losers.


Have you ever considered making a damn lick of sense?
 
2012-11-16 08:06:08 PM
Jews have Ark of Covenant.
 
2012-11-16 08:06:23 PM

clambam: GAT_00: [i575.photobucket.com image 453x604]

Damn, what a shiatty life you have. Have you considered emigrating to one of those other 20 countries where people have exactly the same religion and speak exactly the same language you do, and have one million square miles of mostly empty territory in which to resettle you? No? How about that country right next door, Jordan, which is already 60% Palestinian Arab and which was actually your homeland until 1967? No? The only place you'll accept is the 6,000 square miles of territory in Israel, the one your grandparents emigrated to in the 1920's specifically to keep Jews out? I understand perfectly, you poor thing. Those five million mean ol' Jews are mistreating all 300 million of you innocent Arabs. You poor, poor losers.


Oh joy, looks like the Israeli bots are here.
 
2012-11-16 08:06:30 PM

clambam: GAT_00: [i575.photobucket.com image 453x604]

Damn, what a shiatty life you have. Have you considered emigrating to one of those other 20 countries where people have exactly the same religion and speak exactly the same language you do, and have one million square miles of mostly empty territory in which to resettle you? No? How about that country right next door, Jordan, which is already 60% Palestinian Arab and which was actually your homeland until 1967? No? The only place you'll accept is the 6,000 square miles of territory in Israel, the one your grandparents emigrated to in the 1920's specifically to keep Jews out? I understand perfectly, you poor thing. Those five million mean ol' Jews are mistreating all 300 million of you innocent Arabs. You poor, poor losers.


I'm more American than you are, and not religious in the least.
 
2012-11-16 08:06:38 PM
We cannot let the deaths of those who choose to live in and support terrorist state deter us from the war on terror and the oppression of democracy. Israel is not only our most important ally, but the birthplace of our Savior. Allowing it fall into the hands of evil is an affront to the principles of liberty, and all we hold dear.

Have I got it about right, Fundies?
 
2012-11-16 08:08:33 PM

2xhelix: Just go back to pre-1967 borders and end the BS already. This has gone on way too long.
[i.imgur.com image 850x609]


That will make exactly ZERO difference.
 
2012-11-16 08:13:04 PM

Leo Bloom's Freakout: theknuckler_33: Blue_Blazer: theknuckler_33: To farking hell with the both of them. Palestinians sure as shiat target civilians because they fire rockets nilly-willy wherever they go. Israelis are assholes because if 3 Israelis are killed, they kill 1500 Palestinian 'militants'.

fark them both in the ass. Go to war, you are on your own. FOAD and EABOD.

Point of order here: the Palestinian rockets are hardly capable of being aimed. I will not speculate as to whether it would make a difference. Probably not, as neither side seems interested in avoiding civilian casualities.

That was the point, they don't have weapons sophisticated enough to aim precisely at military targets, they just fire off rockets towards the nearest towns/cities. And, frankly, I don't blame them.

What is accomplished in doing so though? I mean, is it the equivalent of blowing off steam?

I don't understand how it moves forward on any strategic military goals, they're not taking anything over, they're not clearing a hole in the wall to lead a counter-force through, and they aren't engendering anyone to want to sit and discuss how to make something better once they land rockets in Isreal.

I don't know what the good solutions are, but I don't see how lobbing unaimable rockets at random is anything other than bringing the wrath of a titan back upon them. It would be like being in prison and punching a guard because I'm pissed about being there (there's even an argument that I might be imprisoned unjustly)... I may hurt him ever so slightly, but he then has every ability to respond with unchecked force and will be seen as having some justification in doing so. Furthermore it hurts me when I'm standing in court trying to argue my case.


It is one of two things or a combination of the two. They are fighting the great satan or simply just fighting against their oppressors any way they can. If you were in their situation, would you just sit by and take it? If I had multiple family members and friends who were completely non-militant that were killed by Israeli strikes or had their homes, businesses, lives ruined for no other reason than to create Israeli settlements in Gaza... I'd imagine that would make me pretty farking pissed off. With no recourse, legally... what do you do? After a while, I might just get so frustrated and insane with anger, that I might actually pick up and RPG and try to take out some of those MFers. I might. I'm not saying it's right... but I understand.
 
2012-11-16 08:17:06 PM

Party Boy: clambam: those other 20 countries where people have exactly the same religion and speak exactly the same language you do

You know how I know you never studied Arabic or Arabic culture?


Oh I'm well aware that there are all sorts of ethnicities and cultural variations within Arab cultures. Nevertheless they all speak Arabic and they're virtually all Muslim. shiat most of them are Sunni Muslims. You might as well tell me I'm being insensitive by lumping Methodists in with Presbyterians. The fact remains, they could fit into a "new" culture with the same ease an American could fit into Australia. He might not be comfortable at first, but it would still be pretty easy.

I note you forgot to say something snarky about my "Jordan is 60% Palestinian" line. Because it's true. The Palestinians can't move there because the Hashemites are assholes? Oh boo hoo. Maybe they shouldn't have tried to overthrow King Hussein in 1970.
 
2012-11-16 08:18:13 PM

GAT_00: i575.photobucket.com


They took his JERB!
 
2012-11-16 08:19:23 PM
Can we just eat them all?
 
2012-11-16 08:20:24 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: Can we just eat them all?


They are both kosher.
 
2012-11-16 08:21:11 PM

clambam: Party Boy: clambam: those other 20 countries where people have exactly the same religion and speak exactly the same language you do

You know how I know you never studied Arabic or Arabic culture?

Oh I'm well aware that there are all sorts of ethnicities and cultural variations within Arab cultures. Nevertheless they all speak Arabic and they're virtually all Muslim. shiat most of them are Sunni Muslims. You might as well tell me I'm being insensitive by lumping Methodists in with Presbyterians. The fact remains, they could fit into a "new" culture with the same ease an American could fit into Australia. He might not be comfortable at first, but it would still be pretty easy.


Like Iran?
 
2012-11-16 08:21:15 PM

clambam: Oh I'm well aware that there are all sorts of ethnicities and cultural variations within Arab cultures. Nevertheless they all speak Arabic and they're virtually all Muslim. shiat most of them are Sunni Muslims.


Ever speak Lebanese Arabic in Morocco? South Sudan? Aint gonna work. Its so different, it will make your head spin. The varieties of Islam is enough to make you go all mnemonic to memorize them.

Conflation doesn't come close to describing what you are doing.
 
2012-11-16 08:22:02 PM

theknuckler_33: It is one of two things or a combination of the two. They are fighting the great satan or simply just fighting against their oppressors any way they can. If you were in their situation, would you just sit by and take it? If I had multiple family members and friends who were completely non-militant that were killed by Israeli strikes or had their homes, businesses, lives ruined for no other reason than to create Israeli settlements in Gaza... I'd imagine that would make me pretty farking pissed off. With no recourse, legally... what do you do? After a while, I might just get so frustrated and insane with anger, that I might actually pick up and RPG and try to take out some of those MFers. I might. I'm not saying it's right... but I understand.


I completely agree on a lot of that, and desperation can make people do a lot of things, but the quantity of rockets crossing the border did not sound like one guy and maybe a few of his buddies snapping. It seems pretty large in scale and so, if you're going to organize at that level, wouldn't there be a little more direction?

Goals, targets you can hit with what you have, ability to make a clear message (maybe something like blowing a hole in the wall and killing gate guards to show you won't be caged in for example). With how many purportedly were shot (150-300?), couldn't they be employed in a way that makes a more military-style statement?
 
2012-11-16 08:25:00 PM
Lawrence of Arabia is on Turner Classic Movies right now.

/Watch and learn about the inscrutable Arabs.
//It is written.
//No, nothing is written.

Club Secretary: I say, Lawrence. You are a clown!
T.E. Lawrence: Ah, well, we can't all be lion tamers.

Prince Feisal: No Arab loves the desert. We love water and green trees. There is nothing in the desert and no man needs nothing.
 
2012-11-16 08:27:46 PM

Party Boy: clambam: Oh I'm well aware that there are all sorts of ethnicities and cultural variations within Arab cultures. Nevertheless they all speak Arabic and they're virtually all Muslim. shiat most of them are Sunni Muslims.

Ever speak Lebanese Arabic in Morocco? South Sudan? Aint gonna work. Its so different, it will make your head spin. The varieties of Islam is enough to make you go all mnemonic to memorize them.

Conflation doesn't come close to describing what you are doing.


Let's not also forget that Syria and Lebanon aren't exactly attractive alternatives at the moment. I suppose Jordan and/or Saudi Arabia might be locations to go to, but who knows what they immigration policies are and Palestinians might not be particularly enamoured about being under a monarchy rule.
 
2012-11-16 08:28:21 PM

Leo Bloom's Freakout: Goals, targets you can hit with what you have, ability to make a clear message (maybe something like blowing a hole in the wall and killing gate guards to show you won't be caged in for example). With how many purportedly were shot (150-300?), couldn't they be employed in a way that makes a more military-style statement?


I would suspect the goal is to goad Israel into overreacting and killing a bunch of civilians in Gaza and gaining international sympathy. As such, it doesn't really matter what they aim them at as long as they kill a few Israelis.
 
2012-11-16 08:30:46 PM

Party Boy: Chilling.



Boobies nailed it.

That was pants shiattingly frightening.
 
2012-11-16 08:31:00 PM

eiger: I would suspect the goal is to goad Israel into overreacting and killing a bunch of civilians in Gaza and gaining international sympathy. As such, it doesn't really matter what they aim them at as long as they kill a few Israelis.


To add one more thing. The Israeli leadership is in a tough position. They can't just not do anything, but, at the same time, almost anything they will do will backfire. Ultimately, there are only two possible solutions to this mess: a fair and equitable solution to the conflict or ethnic cleansing. And it seems like the current Israeli leadership is unwilling to countenance the former.
 
2012-11-16 08:32:33 PM

theknuckler_33: Let's not also forget that Syria and Lebanon aren't exactly attractive alternatives at the moment. I suppose Jordan and/or Saudi Arabia might be locations to go to, but who knows what they immigration policies are and Palestinians might not be particularly enamoured about being under a monarchy rule.


They werent before this, too. Theres refugee camps with serious poverty. Its a deep conflation to think "Arab" as an interchangeable cog to fit in somewhere else "Arab." It also divorces the issue from its historical roots of struggle for land and legitimacy and empire stretching back to the later 1800's. Its really not a position people can take seriously.
 
2012-11-16 08:32:40 PM

Leo Bloom's Freakout: theknuckler_33: It is one of two things or a combination of the two. They are fighting the great satan or simply just fighting against their oppressors any way they can. If you were in their situation, would you just sit by and take it? If I had multiple family members and friends who were completely non-militant that were killed by Israeli strikes or had their homes, businesses, lives ruined for no other reason than to create Israeli settlements in Gaza... I'd imagine that would make me pretty farking pissed off. With no recourse, legally... what do you do? After a while, I might just get so frustrated and insane with anger, that I might actually pick up and RPG and try to take out some of those MFers. I might. I'm not saying it's right... but I understand.

I completely agree on a lot of that, and desperation can make people do a lot of things, but the quantity of rockets crossing the border did not sound like one guy and maybe a few of his buddies snapping. It seems pretty large in scale and so, if you're going to organize at that level, wouldn't there be a little more direction?


You realize Israel blockades the shiat out palestinian territories, right? No, it's not one guy and a few of his buddies. Take my scenario and times it by thousands. They still aren't getting tanks and fighter planes into Gaza from Iran or elsewhere. They can only get stuff that can be smuggled in. Just because they can't fight a proper war doesn't mean their desire to strike back isn't just as strong. You seem to be suggesting that since they know they can't win, they should just submit to tyrannical oppresive rule... that was forced upon them unilaterally about 70 years ago with virtually no input on their part.
 
2012-11-16 08:35:16 PM

eiger: eiger: I would suspect the goal is to goad Israel into overreacting and killing a bunch of civilians in Gaza and gaining international sympathy. As such, it doesn't really matter what they aim them at as long as they kill a few Israelis.

To add one more thing. The Israeli leadership is in a tough position. They can't just not do anything, but, at the same time, almost anything they will do will backfire. Ultimately, there are only two possible solutions to this mess: a fair and equitable solution to the conflict or ethnic cleansing. And it seems like the current Israeli leadership is unwilling to countenance the former.


If they choose the latter, I'm fairly certain that the irony of their final solution to the Palestinian problem will be completely lost on them.

/yes, I went there
 
2012-11-16 08:35:22 PM

Party Boy: theknuckler_33: Let's not also forget that Syria and Lebanon aren't exactly attractive alternatives at the moment. I suppose Jordan and/or Saudi Arabia might be locations to go to, but who knows what they immigration policies are and Palestinians might not be particularly enamoured about being under a monarchy rule.

They werent before this, too. Theres refugee camps with serious poverty. Its a deep conflation to think "Arab" as an interchangeable cog to fit in somewhere else "Arab." It also divorces the issue from its historical roots of struggle for land and legitimacy and empire stretching back to the later 1800's. Its really not a position people can take seriously.


I didn't intend to diminish your earlier points at all, just add some others. I'm no expert on Arab culture, so I respectfully defer to your apparent expertise. But there are some obvious things about other 'local' Arab nations that even the casual observer should be well aware of.
 
2012-11-16 08:40:19 PM

theknuckler_33: I didn't intend to diminish your earlier points at a


I didn't think you were. If there was any tone to my last post, it was not intentional.

theknuckler_33: But there are some obvious things about other 'local' Arab nations that even the casual observer should be well aware of.


If we're going to approach this from an informed position, I couldn't agree more.

We also need a much better education on the Israeli portion of the Mid East too.
 
2012-11-16 08:40:22 PM

GAT_00: [i575.photobucket.com image 453x604]


GentleFarkers, THIS is how you troll.
 
2012-11-16 08:42:54 PM

DeltaPunch: sophus_tree: Holy fark. The guy says "You can hear what's happening and I'm not going to comment on that. We need to get past 'Who's the victim and who's the victimizer'--we need to get that out of the way and get on with things."

CNN: "Wait--what was that sound?"

"Those were Israeli warplanes bombing Gaza, but I'm not going to comment on that. I'm not going to let it interrupt this debate."

Wow. Hope I someday have brassies like this guy.

Yeah that was pretty awesome. He's trying to have a debate an the Israeli guy is just rattling off the ages of his daughters and grandparents....

As aside, who was that incredibly hot news anchor?!? My god she's gorgeous...


This. Nice images of the kids popped in for the sympathy effect.
 
2012-11-16 08:44:05 PM
Irony tag?: a Chromebook ad with "Ride of the Valkyries" playing popped up when I clicked.
 
2012-11-16 08:45:20 PM

theknuckler_33: Leo Bloom's Freakout: theknuckler_33: It is one of two things or a combination of the two. They are fighting the great satan or simply just fighting against their oppressors any way they can. If you were in their situation, would you just sit by and take it? If I had multiple family members and friends who were completely non-militant that were killed by Israeli strikes or had their homes, businesses, lives ruined for no other reason than to create Israeli settlements in Gaza... I'd imagine that would make me pretty farking pissed off. With no recourse, legally... what do you do? After a while, I might just get so frustrated and insane with anger, that I might actually pick up and RPG and try to take out some of those MFers. I might. I'm not saying it's right... but I understand.

I completely agree on a lot of that, and desperation can make people do a lot of things, but the quantity of rockets crossing the border did not sound like one guy and maybe a few of his buddies snapping. It seems pretty large in scale and so, if you're going to organize at that level, wouldn't there be a little more direction?

You realize Israel blockades the shiat out palestinian territories, right? No, it's not one guy and a few of his buddies. Take my scenario and times it by thousands. They still aren't getting tanks and fighter planes into Gaza from Iran or elsewhere. They can only get stuff that can be smuggled in. Just because they can't fight a proper war doesn't mean their desire to strike back isn't just as strong. You seem to be suggesting that since they know they can't win, they should just submit to tyrannical oppresive rule... that was forced upon them unilaterally about 70 years ago with virtually no input on their part.


I clearly didn't get across what I meant to if that's what you heard and my apologies to that. I was trying to say that the rockets leaving Gaza going into Isreal were of such a quantity that it didn't seem purely spontaneous, it seemed like the people who had the means had some level of coordination. As such, if you have that many people with that many arms... instead of losing the vast majority of your shots to the Iron Dome, why not storm a blockade site and launch hell on them there? Why not focus all of that firepower on a target that will engender less international sympathy for Isreal?

A few guys blowing their top and lobbing rockets is one thing, but if you have 100's of explosives on hand, but you have to face a tyrant, make every shot count.

By no means should they roll over to the oppression they see. Fight it, but if you are strategically disadvantaged and you know there will be overwhelming response no matter what, then attack intelligently. Again, strike at a point of oppression like the blockades or entry checkpoints.
 
2012-11-16 08:46:07 PM

Kanemano: [d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net image 480x397]


My friend Yousef (who was on MSNBC today talking about this) wrote a fantastic article about how difficult it is for him and his wife to travel back home, because he's technically an Israeli citizen, and she isn't. Its like two different planes they have to fly, two different airports, checkpoints, etc.
 
2012-11-16 08:46:13 PM
If I had the money and resources, I'd:

1.- Use small nuclear weapons on both israel and palestine. Nothing big, but on key places (the Wall of Lamentations would be one, and since it's right next to a mosque, I'd hit two birds in one stone).
2.- do a massive announcement, basically saying "It was me. I am not tied to any both of the countries. I did it alone, with no one else helping me. I am waiting for you"
3.- Watch both countries unite against a common enemy. Peace is made.
 
2012-11-16 08:46:36 PM

theknuckler_33: Party Boy: clambam: Oh I'm well aware that there are all sorts of ethnicities and cultural variations within Arab cultures. Nevertheless they all speak Arabic and they're virtually all Muslim. shiat most of them are Sunni Muslims.

Ever speak Lebanese Arabic in Morocco? South Sudan? Aint gonna work. Its so different, it will make your head spin. The varieties of Islam is enough to make you go all mnemonic to memorize them.

Conflation doesn't come close to describing what you are doing.

Let's not also forget that Syria and Lebanon aren't exactly attractive alternatives at the moment. I suppose Jordan and/or Saudi Arabia might be locations to go to, but who knows what they immigration policies are and Palestinians might not be particularly enamoured about being under a monarchy rule.


Last I heard Jordan still keeps their Palestinians in refugee camps like all the other countries that took them in. It's one of the things that keeps everyone upset at Israel. "Look at what they did to these poor people! They forced entire generations to be born in these conditions!" Um, no, the "host" countries continue to keep them in camps, where groups like Hamas and Hezbollah are the ones running food kitchens and providing medical care.

Again, these guys are being used as propaganda tools and meatshields by the other regimes. I will keep beating the drums about this: Syria is Israel's real enemy here. This whole thing is just to distract them from the Syrian border following the attack on the Israeli outpost. There is nothing for Hamas to gain from this, other than continued patronage from the Assad regime (as long as it may last). It is STUPID for Hamas to do except under orders. And if I hadn't seen that Mythbusters episode I would call Israel the bull in the china shop at this moment.
 
2012-11-16 08:46:46 PM

Granny_Panties: Is this Obama's fault?


Yep.
 
2012-11-16 08:46:57 PM

Kanemano: [d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net image 480x397]


Also, holy shiat, that might be the most beautiful girl I've ever seen.
 
2012-11-16 08:47:24 PM

chuggernaught: GAT_00: [i575.photobucket.com image 453x604]

GentleFarkers, THIS is how you troll.


Truth is trolling now? I missed that meeting.
 
2012-11-16 08:48:55 PM
We biatch about shiat in the USA, small things that affect our daily lives, but at least we don't have to worry about mortars falling into our dining rooms while we eat, or being killed by a derp laden suicide bomber with no brain and 60 lbs of C4 strapped to his/her chest blowing up the restaurant we are eating at with our families. I feel sorry for the moderates on each side, they are caught in a battle between Israel and Hamas, and there is nothing they can do but hope a shell doesn't land on their families or they aren't hit by a random unguided rocket. I hope that you people on both sides decide that killing civilians brings NOBODY to your side, it just makes you look like murderers of innocents. Please stop the killing. The children you are killing have no political affiliation, and are innocent. Please stop before this escalates to the point where Israel rolls out the tanks and just starts blowing up buildings one after the other.
 
2012-11-16 08:49:16 PM

theknuckler_33: You realize Israel blockades the shiat out palestinian territories, right? No, it's not one guy and a few of his buddies. Take my scenario and times it by thousands. They still aren't getting tanks and fighter planes into Gaza from Iran or elsewhere. They can only get stuff that can be smuggled in. Just because they can't fight a proper war doesn't mean their desire to strike back isn't just as strong. You seem to be suggesting that since they know they can't win, they should just submit to tyrannical oppresive rule... that was forced upon them unilaterally about 70 years ago with virtually no input on their part.


maybe they shouldn't have backed the Nazi's and pissed of the Brits who controlled the region, they did have input they backed the wrong sugar daddy and lost
 
2012-11-16 08:50:10 PM

BolloxReader: Again, these guys are being used as propaganda tools and meatshields by the other regimes. I will keep beating the drums about this: Syria is Israel's real enemy here. This whole thing is just to distract them from the Syrian border following the attack on the Israeli outpost. There is nothing for Hamas to gain from this, other than continued patronage from the Assad regime (as long as it may last). It is STUPID for Hamas to do except under orders. And if I hadn't seen that Mythbusters episode I would call Israel the bull in the china shop at this moment.


I think most of the Arab countries use Palestine for their own petty reasons. Which is sad, really.

/But I think all of us can agree there's been too much innocent blood shed on both sides
 
2012-11-16 08:52:24 PM

CygnusDarius: If I had the money and resources, I'd:

1.- Use small nuclear weapons on both israel and palestine. Nothing big, but on key places (the Wall of Lamentations would be one, and since it's right next to a mosque, I'd hit two birds in one stone).
2.- do a massive announcement, basically saying "It was me. I am not tied to any both of the countries. I did it alone, with no one else helping me. I am waiting for you"
3.- Watch both countries unite against a common enemy. Peace is made.


go back to reading watchmen you nerdy jackass
 
2012-11-16 08:52:59 PM

organizmx: Kanemano: [d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net image 480x397]

My friend Yousef (who was on MSNBC today talking about this) wrote a fantastic article about how difficult it is for him and his wife to travel back home, because he's technically an Israeli citizen, and she isn't. Its like two different planes they have to fly, two different airports, checkpoints, etc.


Please share.
 
2012-11-16 08:53:52 PM
So we agree that Lavatican law is as bad a Shari'ah law?
 
2012-11-16 08:54:16 PM
And also, Hamas members often hide and live, in heavily civilian populated areas so if they are targeted by Israel, how do you expect innocents not to be killed / wounded? It's not like there is a giant HAMAS HEADQUARTERS,..BOMB HERE skyscraper that Israel can target. Hamas hides and fights from residential areas, so civilian attrition is inescapable. The only way it's not going to happen, is if both sides stop shooting, which doesn't seem likely.
 
2012-11-16 08:54:38 PM
Wow... Palestinian guy keeps talking even while he's getting bombed. That's a man with some serious balls.
 
2012-11-16 08:54:50 PM

Party Boy: organizmx: Kanemano: [d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net image 480x397]

My friend Yousef (who was on MSNBC today talking about this) wrote a fantastic article about how difficult it is for him and his wife to travel back home, because he's technically an Israeli citizen, and she isn't. Its like two different planes they have to fly, two different airports, checkpoints, etc.

Please share.


Yousef's wife?
 
2012-11-16 08:55:31 PM

CygnusDarius: I think most of the Arab countries use Palestine for their own petty reasons. Which is sad, really.


This argument had a lot more traction before the Arab Spring. People started to recognize the massive disconnect between a dictator and the people. Its hard to imagine now, but it was an argument i heard with routine frequency here regarding Egypt before Mubarak fell.
 
2012-11-16 08:55:37 PM

Leo Bloom's Freakout: instead of losing the vast majority of your shots to the Iron Dome, why not storm a blockade site and launch hell on them there? Why not focus all of that firepower on a target that will engender less international sympathy for Isreal?


I would imagine it has something to do with the fact that even IF they were able to storm a blockade site... then what? If they had real serious military support from the outside, there would already be war. Syria and Lebanon are busy with their own problems (not to mention Egypt). I'd imagine Jordan isn't particular interested in getting involved in an all-out war... or anyone else for that matter.

Doing what you are suggesting would, necessarily, involve getting significant instant support from outside sources as opposed to slow, steady, smuggled (relatively) small arms. That just isn't going to happen especially considering the history of conflicts involving Israel, they would very likely kick everyone's asses unless the entire middle east coalesced and ganged up on them which would not ever happen (especially without massive international support for Israel coming very quickly via massive air strikes). They are between a rock and a hard place. Strategic goals are strictly political like someone earlier suggested. They basically WANT Israel to launch massive strikes that kill civilians and try to gain international sympathy to improve their bargaining position.
 
2012-11-16 08:55:59 PM
It is historical fact that towards the end of WWII, FDR looked into using Earth's moon as a place to resettle refugees. I wish they had done more.
 
2012-11-16 08:56:48 PM

Leo Bloom's Freakout: Party Boy: organizmx: Kanemano: [d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net image 480x397]

My friend Yousef (who was on MSNBC today talking about this) wrote a fantastic article about how difficult it is for him and his wife to travel back home, because he's technically an Israeli citizen, and she isn't. Its like two different planes they have to fly, two different airports, checkpoints, etc.

Please share.

Yousef's wife?


You better check Yousef before you wreck Yousef.
 
2012-11-16 08:57:47 PM

BolloxReader: And if I hadn't seen that Mythbusters episode I would call Israel the bull in the china shop at this moment.


I'm so glad I get that reference.

/good post, btw.
 
2012-11-16 08:58:25 PM

Party Boy: organizmx: Kanemano: [d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net image 480x397]

My friend Yousef (who was on MSNBC today talking about this) wrote a fantastic article about how difficult it is for him and his wife to travel back home, because he's technically an Israeli citizen, and she isn't. Its like two different planes they have to fly, two different airports, checkpoints, etc.

Please share.


I'm sure he'd appreciate the interest!

Not All Israeli Citizens Are Equal
 
2012-11-16 09:01:57 PM

organizmx: Party Boy: organizmx: Kanemano: [d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net image 480x397]

My friend Yousef (who was on MSNBC today talking about this) wrote a fantastic article about how difficult it is for him and his wife to travel back home, because he's technically an Israeli citizen, and she isn't. Its like two different planes they have to fly, two different airports, checkpoints, etc.

Please share.

I'm sure he'd appreciate the interest!

Not All Israeli Citizens Are Equal


Thanks! That was a very memorable article. I recall reading it when it came out.
 
2012-11-16 09:02:10 PM
We're talking about the land the British stole from Turkey, right?
 
2012-11-16 09:02:35 PM

zedster: theknuckler_33: You realize Israel blockades the shiat out palestinian territories, right? No, it's not one guy and a few of his buddies. Take my scenario and times it by thousands. They still aren't getting tanks and fighter planes into Gaza from Iran or elsewhere. They can only get stuff that can be smuggled in. Just because they can't fight a proper war doesn't mean their desire to strike back isn't just as strong. You seem to be suggesting that since they know they can't win, they should just submit to tyrannical oppresive rule... that was forced upon them unilaterally about 70 years ago with virtually no input on their part.

maybe they shouldn't have backed the Nazi's and pissed of the Brits who controlled the region, they did have input they backed the wrong sugar daddy and lost


You mean the Palestinians backed the folks fighting the Brits who took over their homeland a hundred (or more) years earlier? And you are BLAMING them for 'backing the Nazis'? Do you really think they gave a flying fark about the politics or even knew what the Nazis were doing? They wanted the Brits out because the farking Brits went in there and took over because the Brits thought those arabs were farking savages.
 
2012-11-16 09:04:46 PM

clambam: GAT_00: [i575.photobucket.com image 453x604]

Damn, what a shiatty life you have. Have you considered emigrating to one of those other 20 countries where people have exactly the same religion and speak exactly the same language you do, and have one million square miles of mostly empty territory in which to resettle you? No? How about that country right next door, Jordan, which is already 60% Palestinian Arab and which was actually your homeland until 1967? No? The only place you'll accept is the 6,000 square miles of territory in Israel, the one your grandparents emigrated to in the 1920's specifically to keep Jews out? I understand perfectly, you poor thing. Those five million mean ol' Jews are mistreating all 300 million of you innocent Arabs. You poor, poor losers.


Then you wonder why the entire world has wanted your people dead for thousands of years.
 
2012-11-16 09:04:49 PM

chuggernaught: Party Boy: Chilling.


Boobies nailed it.

That was pants shiattingly frightening.


I'm speechless. Goddamn, I can't imagine living under that. I wouldn't. I'd GTFO.
 
2012-11-16 09:07:28 PM

theknuckler_33: zedster: theknuckler_33: You realize Israel blockades the shiat out palestinian territories, right? No, it's not one guy and a few of his buddies. Take my scenario and times it by thousands. They still aren't getting tanks and fighter planes into Gaza from Iran or elsewhere. They can only get stuff that can be smuggled in. Just because they can't fight a proper war doesn't mean their desire to strike back isn't just as strong. You seem to be suggesting that since they know they can't win, they should just submit to tyrannical oppresive rule... that was forced upon them unilaterally about 70 years ago with virtually no input on their part.

maybe they shouldn't have backed the Nazi's and pissed of the Brits who controlled the region, they did have input they backed the wrong sugar daddy and lost

You mean the Palestinians backed the folks fighting the Brits who took over their homeland a hundred (or more) years earlier? And you are BLAMING them for 'backing the Nazis'? Do you really think they gave a flying fark about the politics or even knew what the Nazis were doing? They wanted the Brits out because the farking Brits went in there and took over because the Brits thought those arabs were farking savages.


Arafat Uncle pissed off the Brits enough that they kicked him out and lifted their blockade on Jewish immigration a bit. All hussani certainly played a role
 
2012-11-16 09:20:08 PM

zedster: theknuckler_33: zedster: theknuckler_33: You realize Israel blockades the shiat out palestinian territories, right? No, it's not one guy and a few of his buddies. Take my scenario and times it by thousands. They still aren't getting tanks and fighter planes into Gaza from Iran or elsewhere. They can only get stuff that can be smuggled in. Just because they can't fight a proper war doesn't mean their desire to strike back isn't just as strong. You seem to be suggesting that since they know they can't win, they should just submit to tyrannical oppresive rule... that was forced upon them unilaterally about 70 years ago with virtually no input on their part.

maybe they shouldn't have backed the Nazi's and pissed of the Brits who controlled the region, they did have input they backed the wrong sugar daddy and lost

You mean the Palestinians backed the folks fighting the Brits who took over their homeland a hundred (or more) years earlier? And you are BLAMING them for 'backing the Nazis'? Do you really think they gave a flying fark about the politics or even knew what the Nazis were doing? They wanted the Brits out because the farking Brits went in there and took over because the Brits thought those arabs were farking savages.

Arafat Uncle pissed off the Brits enough that they kicked him out and lifted their blockade on Jewish immigration a bit. All hussani certainly played a role


Lots of things played a role. Like Palestinians being pissed off that the Brits controlled their homeland since WWI.
 
2012-11-16 09:20:22 PM

theknuckler_33: It is one of two things or a combination of the two. They are fighting the great satan or simply just fighting against their oppressors any way they can. If you were in their situation, would you just sit by and take it? If I had multiple family members and friends who were completely non-militant that were killed by Israeli strikes or had their homes, businesses, lives ruined for no other reason than to create Israeli settlements in Gaza... I'd imagine that would make me pretty farking pissed off. With no recourse, legally... what do you do? After a while, I might just get so frustrated and insane with anger, that I might actually pick up and RPG and try to take out some of those MFers. I might. I'm not saying it's right... but I understand.


I do also. Now let's look at it from the other side:

It is one of two things or a combination of the two. They are fighting for the right to exist or simply just fighting against their sworn enemies and blood brothers any way they can. If you were in their situation, would you just sit by and take it? If I had multiple family members and friends who were completely non-militant that were killed by Palestinian strikes or had their homes, businesses, lives ruined for no other reason than to destroy Israeli settlements in Israel... I'd imagine that would make me pretty farking pissed off. With no recourse, legally... what do you do? After a while, I might just get so frustrated and insane with anger, that I might actually pick up an RPG and try to take out some of those MFers. I might. I'm not saying it's right... but I understand.

/see what I did there? 
//everyone involved has bloody hands
 
2012-11-16 09:25:53 PM

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: /see what I did there? 


Yea, I do.
 
2012-11-16 09:26:20 PM

Blue_Blazer: chuggernaught: GAT_00: [i575.photobucket.com image 453x604]

GentleFarkers, THIS is how you troll.

Truth is trolling now? I missed that meeting.


Trolling as in getting attention, not necessarily passing off lies.
 
2012-11-16 09:30:40 PM
i1182.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-16 09:30:44 PM

theknuckler_33: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: /see what I did there? 

Yea, I do.


LOL, I agree with that. I'm just glad I'm neither Israeli nor Palestinian. It's a hard precarious life when you're born with prefab enemies.
 
2012-11-16 09:30:51 PM

CygnusDarius: If I had the money and resources, I'd:

1.- Use small nuclear weapons on both israel and palestine. Nothing big, but on key places (the Wall of Lamentations would be one, and since it's right next to a mosque, I'd hit two birds in one stone).
2.- do a massive announcement, basically saying "It was me. I am not tied to any both of the countries. I did it alone, with no one else helping me. I am waiting for you"
3.- Watch both countries unite against a common enemy. Peace is made.


Yeah that would work for the 10 minutes it takes for the Mossad to find you and kill you. Then they would just be back to arguing about who threw the first mud pie at whom. The situation in Israel and Palestine will take generations to solve (unless one side wipes the other out) and even then there will be tension for generations more.

//The situation is farked and arguing about who is less wrong just perpetuates the issues.

//Also arab culture is family clan tribe and maybe nation in that order
 
2012-11-16 09:33:34 PM

theknuckler_33: GAT_00: JFC: So.
What was with the photos of children and elderly folk while the Israeli was talking?
What was the point of that?

To show that Israel can do no wrong.

It would only have been more amusing if while the Palestinian was talking that they showed militants with grenade launchers and machine guns and their head wraps (don't know the proper name for that).


Shemaghs
 
2012-11-16 09:34:08 PM

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: theknuckler_33: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: /see what I did there? 

Yea, I do.

LOL, I agree with that. I'm just glad I'm neither Israeli nor Palestinian. It's a hard precarious life when you're born with prefab enemies.


Indeed. You came in mid-conversation there.
 
2012-11-16 09:34:54 PM

d23: a no carrier joke on Fark in 2012?


[thatsthejoke.jpg]
 
2012-11-16 09:36:02 PM

Mazzic518: theknuckler_33: GAT_00: JFC: So.
What was with the photos of children and elderly folk while the Israeli was talking?
What was the point of that?

To show that Israel can do no wrong.

It would only have been more amusing if while the Palestinian was talking that they showed militants with grenade launchers and machine guns and their head wraps (don't know the proper name for that).

Shemaghs


Thanks... I nearly used the word 'towel'. *eyeroll*

/It is damned hard fighting against my upbringing sometimes!
 
2012-11-16 09:37:57 PM
We should deliver justice for the entire Middle East from orbit.

Then we can be sure.
 
2012-11-16 09:38:55 PM

organizmx: Party Boy: organizmx: Kanemano: [d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net image 480x397]

My friend Yousef (who was on MSNBC today talking about this) wrote a fantastic article about how difficult it is for him and his wife to travel back home, because he's technically an Israeli citizen, and she isn't. Its like two different planes they have to fly, two different airports, checkpoints, etc.

Please share.

I'm sure he'd appreciate the interest!

Not All Israeli Citizens Are Equal


FTA:

If we lived in the region, I would have to forgo my residency, since Israeli law prevents my wife from living with me in Israel. This is to prevent what Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu once referred to as "demographic spillover." Additional Palestinian babies in Israel are considered "demographic threats" by a state constantly battling to keep a Jewish majority. (Of course, Israelis who marry Americans or any non-Palestinian foreigners are not subjected to this treatment.)

Not too many places in the world can get away with blatant racism like that.
 
2012-11-16 09:43:55 PM
At 2:30, the point is made -- the innocent people are the ones who suffer for the insanity of those who want to have power. The ordinary Jose (the 99%) just wants to live a comfortable, secure life. Their lives are made horrid by that vile 1% who don't mind bombing any/everybody all to hell.
 
2012-11-16 09:45:54 PM

theknuckler_33: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: theknuckler_33: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: /see what I did there? 

Yea, I do.

LOL, I agree with that. I'm just glad I'm neither Israeli nor Palestinian. It's a hard precarious life when you're born with prefab enemies.

Indeed. You came in mid-conversation there.


I actually did read the entire thread, I just didn't connect one post with the other. My apologies. This whole mess could be averted if the nations backing the respective sides did so in good faith, and not for selfish reasons. Without support, both sides would be back to throwing rocks. Both sides are being played as (willing) pawns by their and other countries' leaders.
 
2012-11-16 09:46:00 PM

theknuckler_33: Mazzic518: theknuckler_33: GAT_00: JFC: So.
What was with the photos of children and elderly folk while the Israeli was talking?
What was the point of that?

To show that Israel can do no wrong.

It would only have been more amusing if while the Palestinian was talking that they showed militants with grenade launchers and machine guns and their head wraps (don't know the proper name for that).

Shemaghs

Thanks... I nearly used the word 'towel'. *eyeroll*

/It is damned hard fighting against my upbringing sometimes!


www.fbastard.com
 
2012-11-16 09:50:19 PM

GAT_00: [i575.photobucket.com image 453x604]


it's amazing the justifications people will make for their terrorism but not as amazing as the stupid Westerners who'll propagate those justifications
 
2012-11-16 09:51:00 PM

Captain Steroid: [i1182.photobucket.com image 640x360]


Where's that from?
 
2012-11-16 09:55:42 PM

Mrtraveler01: organizmx: Party Boy: organizmx: Kanemano: [d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net image 480x397]

My friend Yousef (who was on MSNBC today talking about this) wrote a fantastic article about how difficult it is for him and his wife to travel back home, because he's technically an Israeli citizen, and she isn't. Its like two different planes they have to fly, two different airports, checkpoints, etc.

Please share.

I'm sure he'd appreciate the interest!

Not All Israeli Citizens Are Equal

FTA:

If we lived in the region, I would have to forgo my residency, since Israeli law prevents my wife from living with me in Israel. This is to prevent what Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu once referred to as "demographic spillover." Additional Palestinian babies in Israel are considered "demographic threats" by a state constantly battling to keep a Jewish majority. (Of course, Israelis who marry Americans or any non-Palestinian foreigners are not subjected to this treatment.)

Not too many places in the world can get away with blatant racism like that.


That is the crux. Blatant Mother farking Racism. Call it whatever you want same shiat different pile.
 
2012-11-16 10:01:17 PM
New news

Israeli peace activist: Hamas leader Jabari killed amid talks on long-term truce
Hours before Hamas strongman Ahmed Jabari was assassinated, he received the draft of a permanent truce agreement with Israel, which included mechanisms for maintaining the cease-fire in the case of a flare-up between Israel and the factions in the Gaza Strip. This, according to Israeli peace activist Gershon Baskin, who helped mediate between Israel and Hamas in the deal to release Gilad Shalit and has since then maintained a relationship with Hamas leaders.

Baskin told Haaretz on Thursday that senior officials in Israel knew about his contacts with Hamas and Egyptian intelligence aimed at formulating the permanent truce, but nevertheless approved the assassination.

"I think that they have made a strategic mistake," Baskin said, an error "which will cost the lives of quite a number of innocent people on both sides."
 
2012-11-16 10:03:15 PM

Party Boy: New news

Israeli peace activist: Hamas leader Jabari killed amid talks on long-term truce
Hours before Hamas strongman Ahmed Jabari was assassinated, he received the draft of a permanent truce agreement with Israel, which included mechanisms for maintaining the cease-fire in the case of a flare-up between Israel and the factions in the Gaza Strip. This, according to Israeli peace activist Gershon Baskin, who helped mediate between Israel and Hamas in the deal to release Gilad Shalit and has since then maintained a relationship with Hamas leaders.

Baskin told Haaretz on Thursday that senior officials in Israel knew about his contacts with Hamas and Egyptian intelligence aimed at formulating the permanent truce, but nevertheless approved the assassination.

"I think that they have made a strategic mistake," Baskin said, an error "which will cost the lives of quite a number of innocent people on both sides."


How long are Hamas/Israeli truces good for again? 2 weeks? Isnt that the average before someone does something?
 
2012-11-16 10:04:28 PM
just curious, but if the US were to bomb Israel, who would come to Israel's aid?
 
2012-11-16 10:07:38 PM
Israel's response to the atrocities it commits, "bbbbut Palestinians are bad too!"
 
2012-11-16 10:08:21 PM

stonelotus: just curious, but if the US were to bomb Israel, who would come to Israel's aid?


Germany

Seriously. German people cannot get over what their fathers did.
 
2012-11-16 10:15:27 PM

stonelotus: just curious, but if the US were to bomb Israel, who would come to Israel's aid?


Yahweh
 
2012-11-16 10:16:20 PM

cman: THIS IS NOT AN AMERICAN ISSUE

Stop it

Stop politicizing this crap

This is NOT a left/right issue

Stop making it one


An American ally dropping US-supplied bombs on a neutral party using mostly American money to fund their operations in breaking a treaty that was partially brokered by the US in a region full of US allies and economic interests isn't an American issue?

Wow, that's not even modern isolationist, that's like 1870s isolationist. Where the hell did you come from?
 
2012-11-16 10:20:12 PM
Hamas has a brilliant strategy. Hide out among civilian populations, shoot at Israeli civilian populations and when the retaliation against Hamas also kills civilians, it makes Israel look bad
 
2012-11-16 10:21:21 PM

Jim_Callahan: cman: THIS IS NOT AN AMERICAN ISSUE

Stop it

Stop politicizing this crap

This is NOT a left/right issue

Stop making it one

An American ally dropping US-supplied bombs on a neutral party using mostly American money to fund their operations in breaking a treaty that was partially brokered by the US in a region full of US allies and economic interests isn't an American issue?

Wow, that's not even modern isolationist, that's like 1870s isolationist. Where the hell did you come from?


No, what I am biatching about is the left v right portion. The left feels like it has to attack the right. This is ultrapartisanship at its worse.

We have been supporting Israel for a long time. Now that the right has made supporting Israel one of their big things, the left HAS to shiat on them, just like the right has to shiat on the left for all the things that they do.

One of the biggest issues in the 2012 elections was about the middle east. People on the left said shiat like "A vote for Jill Stein is a vote for Mitt Romney and allowing Israel to do whatever the fark they want". Well, guess what? Obama is letting Israel do whatever the fark they want, and you sit here biatching about the right while giving your guy a free pass. Ultrapartisanship, thats what this is
 
2012-11-16 10:26:13 PM

cman: THIS IS NOT AN AMERICAN ISSUE

Stop it

Stop politicizing this crap

This is NOT a left/right issue

Stop making it one


Welp, today I'm in a mood for calling people out, so...um, bullsh*t. The right has spent at least ten years (how long I've had any knowledge of politics personally) saying exactly one thing about Israel: Palestine is the aggressor and the Gaza Strip belongs to Israel, ISRAEL MUST WIN AT ALL COSTS! And they're saying that because, as evangelicals, they believe the only way to bring about the Second Coming is for Jerusalem to be destroyed. So they want a war. They want a violent, chaotic war.

I'm actually kind of sorry if you didn't already know this, but this is what the right has been saying and is saying today. That's why everyone claims Obama is anti-Israel, and why Bush was seen as 'pro'-Israel. It's a relationship intended to destroy Israel because they think that's what Christ wants.

Can't get much more political or religious than that.
 
2012-11-16 10:28:03 PM

PsiChick: cman: THIS IS NOT AN AMERICAN ISSUE

Stop it

Stop politicizing this crap

This is NOT a left/right issue

Stop making it one

Welp, today I'm in a mood for calling people out, so...um, bullsh*t. The right has spent at least ten years (how long I've had any knowledge of politics personally) saying exactly one thing about Israel: Palestine is the aggressor and the Gaza Strip belongs to Israel, ISRAEL MUST WIN AT ALL COSTS! And they're saying that because, as evangelicals, they believe the only way to bring about the Second Coming is for Jerusalem to be destroyed. So they want a war. They want a violent, chaotic war.

I'm actually kind of sorry if you didn't already know this, but this is what the right has been saying and is saying today. That's why everyone claims Obama is anti-Israel, and why Bush was seen as 'pro'-Israel. It's a relationship intended to destroy Israel because they think that's what Christ wants.

Can't get much more political or religious than that.


See my above post
 
2012-11-16 10:30:58 PM

Mrtraveler01:

Not too many places in the world can get away with blatant racism apartheid like that.


That's better.
 
2012-11-16 10:33:14 PM

PsiChick: cman: THIS IS NOT AN AMERICAN ISSUE

Stop it

Stop politicizing this crap

This is NOT a left/right issue

Stop making it one

Welp, today I'm in a mood for calling people out, so...um, bullsh*t. The right has spent at least ten years (how long I've had any knowledge of politics personally) saying exactly one thing about Israel: Palestine is the aggressor and the Gaza Strip belongs to Israel, ISRAEL MUST WIN AT ALL COSTS! And they're saying that because, as evangelicals, they believe the only way to bring about the Second Coming is for Jerusalem to be destroyed. So they want a war. They want a violent, chaotic war.

I'm actually kind of sorry if you didn't already know this, but this is what the right has been saying and is saying today. That's why everyone claims Obama is anti-Israel, and why Bush was seen as 'pro'-Israel. It's a relationship intended to destroy Israel because they think that's what Christ wants.

Can't get much more political or religious than that.


images.wikia.com
 
2012-11-16 10:37:54 PM

MrPenny: Mrtraveler01:

Not too many places in the world can get away with blatant racism apartheid like that.

That's better.


No its racism too. Ask your average Jew about the Palestinians and watch the spittle fly!
 
2012-11-16 10:38:55 PM

2xhelix: Just go back to pre-1967 borders and end the BS already. This has gone on way too long.

 
2012-11-16 10:39:46 PM

cman: See my above post


About Germany? That...really doesn't change the fact that, in America, it's political.

/If you're saying that America would come because of the Holocaust and not the End Times, well, some, but not the political folks. The political folks tend to overlap more with the End Times folks than the Holocaust ones. Which is ridiculous given that you'd think religious people would be the most horrified at the Holocaust because of the whole 'be nice to people' thing...but yeah, no, there's a lot of Fark links where they outright admit it, albeit in smaller publications.
 
2012-11-16 10:40:08 PM

Shedim: Captain Steroid: [i1182.photobucket.com image 640x360]

Where's that from?


The picture is from the ending to Mobile Suit Gundam 00: A Wakening of the Trailblazer. The inserted quote is from Albert Einstein.
 
2012-11-16 10:40:47 PM

PsiChick: cman: See my above post

About Germany? That...really doesn't change the fact that, in America, it's political.

/If you're saying that America would come because of the Holocaust and not the End Times, well, some, but not the political folks. The political folks tend to overlap more with the End Times folks than the Holocaust ones. Which is ridiculous given that you'd think religious people would be the most horrified at the Holocaust because of the whole 'be nice to people' thing...but yeah, no, there's a lot of Fark links where they outright admit it, albeit in smaller publications.


You must have skipped it



No, what I am biatching about is the left v right portion. The left feels like it has to attack the right. This is ultrapartisanship at its worse.

We have been supporting Israel for a long time. Now that the right has made supporting Israel one of their big things, the left HAS to shiat on them, just like the right has to shiat on the left for all the things that they do.

One of the biggest issues in the 2012 elections was about the middle east. People on the left said shiat like "A vote for Jill Stein is a vote for Mitt Romney and allowing Israel to do whatever the fark they want". Well, guess what? Obama is letting Israel do whatever the fark they want, and you sit here biatching about the right while giving your guy a free pass. Ultrapartisanship, thats what this is
 
2012-11-16 10:46:47 PM
I know this might sound a bit inappropriate given the severity of the situation, but that CNN reporter is hot and I couldn't help but wonder what her Gaza strip looks like.
 
2012-11-16 10:48:50 PM

Theory Of Null: I know this might sound a bit inappropriate given the severity of the situation, but that CNN reporter is hot and I couldn't help but wonder what her Gaza strip looks like.


If it mirrors what's unfolding this week, it's probably getting pounded.
 
2012-11-16 10:49:25 PM

Theory Of Null: I know this might sound a bit inappropriate given the severity of the situation, but that CNN reporter is hot and I couldn't help but wonder what her Gaza strip looks like.


"The Gaza Strip" would be a great name for an Israeli nudie bar that caters Jewish men with a Palestinian fetish.
 
2012-11-16 10:51:33 PM

thekilt04: so when is Egypt going to light the already burning powder keg?


www.leadpipeposters.com

God I'd hope so.
 
2012-11-16 10:54:54 PM

skullkrusher: GAT_00: [i575.photobucket.com image 453x604]

it's amazing the justifications people will make for their terrorism but not as amazing as the stupid Westerners who'll propagate those justifications


Israel can do no wrong and the Palestians should just stop. The whole situation is so black and white.
 
2012-11-16 10:59:31 PM

cman: PsiChick: cman: See my above post

About Germany? That...really doesn't change the fact that, in America, it's political.

/If you're saying that America would come because of the Holocaust and not the End Times, well, some, but not the political folks. The political folks tend to overlap more with the End Times folks than the Holocaust ones. Which is ridiculous given that you'd think religious people would be the most horrified at the Holocaust because of the whole 'be nice to people' thing...but yeah, no, there's a lot of Fark links where they outright admit it, albeit in smaller publications.

You must have skipped it



No, what I am biatching about is the left v right portion. The left feels like it has to attack the right. This is ultrapartisanship at its worse.

We have been supporting Israel for a long time. Now that the right has made supporting Israel one of their big things, the left HAS to shiat on them, just like the right has to shiat on the left for all the things that they do.

One of the biggest issues in the 2012 elections was about the middle east. People on the left said shiat like "A vote for Jill Stein is a vote for Mitt Romney and allowing Israel to do whatever the fark they want". Well, guess what? Obama is letting Israel do whatever the fark they want, and you sit here biatching about the right while giving your guy a free pass. Ultrapartisanship, thats what this is


Ah. Well, then, that makes more sense. I thought you were trying to argue that it wasn't political as a fact, not that it shouldn't be.

That said, though, the left hasn't been going after Israel so much because the right wing supports them as because Israel will do shiat like kill a Hamas official and act surprised when Hamas shoots back. And the phrase 'letting Israel do what it wants' usually means 'writing a blank check and adding military support', which Obama is thankfully not doing. I mean, whether or not he publicly condemns Israel probably matters jack shiat to them at this stage.
 
2012-11-16 10:59:40 PM

cman: PsiChick: cman: See my above post

About Germany? That...really doesn't change the fact that, in America, it's political.

/If you're saying that America would come because of the Holocaust and not the End Times, well, some, but not the political folks. The political folks tend to overlap more with the End Times folks than the Holocaust ones. Which is ridiculous given that you'd think religious people would be the most horrified at the Holocaust because of the whole 'be nice to people' thing...but yeah, no, there's a lot of Fark links where they outright admit it, albeit in smaller publications.

You must have skipped it



No, what I am biatching about is the left v right portion. The left feels like it has to attack the right. This is ultrapartisanship at its worse.

We have been supporting Israel for a long time. Now that the right has made supporting Israel one of their big things, the left HAS to shiat on them, just like the right has to shiat on the left for all the things that they do.

One of the biggest issues in the 2012 elections was about the middle east. People on the left said shiat like "A vote for Jill Stein is a vote for Mitt Romney and allowing Israel to do whatever the fark they want". Well, guess what? Obama is letting Israel do whatever the fark they want, and you sit here biatching about the right while giving your guy a free pass. Ultrapartisanship, thats what this is


The entire dialogue makes me very uncomfortable. America involves herself in these savage's quarrels at great peril. The middle east is a dark, evil place - it is the seat of most of what is foul and wretched in human history. These superstitious, bloodthirsty desert horney-toads live to murder, rape, and subjugate humanity with their obscene Abrahamic fairy tales, and they have no problem not only slaughtering each other wholesale, but taking the rest of humanity to Hell with them if we are foolish enough to get involved. We need to seal the area off, give them all as many of the deadliest weapons we can spare, and let them sterilize the gene pool of themselves. and we'd better do it soon.
 
2012-11-16 11:08:29 PM

The Great Gazoo: I don't think Israel is intentionally targeting civilians, but I don't think they really give a fark if they kill a few by accident.


Yep...They are targeting know assholes, but aren't crying much if they hit a few innocents in the process.
Sad all around.
 
2012-11-16 11:12:25 PM

GAT_00: [i575.photobucket.com image 453x604]


FTFpicture:
YOU
Burn my olive trees


You know, I wonder how much of this is 2500 year-old anger about Greeks in the region...
 
2012-11-16 11:17:03 PM

Kanemano: [d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net image 480x397]


Either of those folks would be welcome in California, especialy if they could provide me with a good falafel.

I'd kill for good falafel, haven't had any in years.
 
2012-11-16 11:19:32 PM

theknuckler_33: 2xhelix: Just go back to pre-1967 borders and end the BS already. This has gone on way too long.
[i.imgur.com image 850x609]

That will make exactly ZERO difference.


Two State solution or One State solution, they need to pick it and stick with it.
 
2012-11-16 11:20:26 PM
Unfortunately, the civilians targeted by Israel weren't so lucky
 
2012-11-16 11:22:26 PM

PsiChick: cman: THIS IS NOT AN AMERICAN ISSUE

Stop it

Stop politicizing this crap

This is NOT a left/right issue

Stop making it one

Welp, today I'm in a mood for calling people out, so...um, bullsh*t. The right has spent at least ten years (how long I've had any knowledge of politics personally) saying exactly one thing about Israel: Palestine is the aggressor and the Gaza Strip belongs to Israel, ISRAEL MUST WIN AT ALL COSTS! And they're saying that because, as evangelicals, they believe the only way to bring about the Second Coming is for Jerusalem to be destroyed. So they want a war. They want a violent, chaotic war.

I'm actually kind of sorry if you didn't already know this, but this is what the right has been saying and is saying today. That's why everyone claims Obama is anti-Israel, and why Bush was seen as 'pro'-Israel. It's a relationship intended to destroy Israel because they think that's what Christ wants.

Can't get much more political or religious than that.


Really I mean really really you believe this? Yeah far right extremist arse holes in the evangelical community can go somewhere into this neighborhood of retarded but most normal people don't believe this. Please look farther back than 10 years this area has seen nothing but strife since back when the Israelites wiped out the Caananites or some shiat like that.

/The U.S. started helping modern Israel after they had already fought and won 2 major wars for survival and then mostly due to generational guild for having denied asylum to the European Jewish population during the holocaust.

//Bad shiat happened and bad shiat will continue to happen unless somewhere somehow someone stops pointing the finger and starts talking to the other side.

/It's a dream I'm entitled just like everyone:)
 
2012-11-16 11:29:55 PM

2xhelix: Just go back to pre-1967 borders and end the BS already. This has gone on way too long.
[i.imgur.com image 850x609]


Too logical. Does not compute.
 
2012-11-16 11:40:53 PM

Summoner101: clambam: GAT_00: [i575.photobucket.com image 453x604]

Damn, what a shiatty life you have. Have you considered emigrating to one of those other 20 countries where people have exactly the same religion and speak exactly the same language you do, and have one million square miles of mostly empty territory in which to resettle you? No? How about that country right next door, Jordan, which is already 60% Palestinian Arab and which was actually your homeland until 1967? No? The only place you'll accept is the 6,000 square miles of territory in Israel, the one your grandparents emigrated to in the 1920's specifically to keep Jews out? I understand perfectly, you poor thing. Those five million mean ol' Jews are mistreating all 300 million of you innocent Arabs. You poor, poor losers.

Have you ever considered making a damn lick of sense?


QFT.
 
2012-11-17 12:03:54 AM

mainsail: Summoner101: clambam: GAT_00: [i575.photobucket.com image 453x604]

Damn, what a shiatty life you have. Have you considered emigrating to one of those other 20 countries where people have exactly the same religion and speak exactly the same language you do, and have one million square miles of mostly empty territory in which to resettle you? No? How about that country right next door, Jordan, which is already 60% Palestinian Arab and which was actually your homeland until 1967? No? The only place you'll accept is the 6,000 square miles of territory in Israel, the one your grandparents emigrated to in the 1920's specifically to keep Jews out? I understand perfectly, you poor thing. Those five million mean ol' Jews are mistreating all 300 million of you innocent Arabs. You poor, poor losers.

Have you ever considered making a damn lick of sense?

QFT.


If North Korea invaded the United States because the U.N. gave it to them, would you go quietly "one of those other 20 countries where people have exactly the same religion and speak exactly the same language you do"?
 
2012-11-17 12:12:34 AM

yousaywut: Really I mean really really you believe this? Yeah far right extremist arse holes in the evangelical community can go somewhere into this neighborhood of retarded but most normal people don't believe this. Please look farther back than 10 years this area has seen nothing but strife since back when the Israelites wiped out the Caananites or some shiat like that.

/The U.S. started helping modern Israel after they had already fought and won 2 major wars for survival and then mostly due to generational guild for having denied asylum to the European Jewish population during the holocaust.

//Bad shiat happened and bad shiat will continue to happen unless somewhere somehow someone stops pointing the finger and starts talking to the other side.

/It's a dream I'm entitled just like everyone:)


Yeah...I wasn't talking about normal people, I was talking about the right wing (not moderates), who are, nowadays, insane. There are many people, as I told cman, who do support Israel because of the Holocaust. That's understandable, but that's not evangelicals.

Since you don't have TotalFark, I'm not sure how well you can see archived links, so here's a few choice quotes on Israel from fundies--the top two probably are enough, here's the Republican Party slamming the Democratic Platform for not wanting to hand Jerusalem to Israel exclusively, a policy which, if enacted, would cause a major war, (also listed on AP, I'm just using a lazy link) and here's a viewpoint I've found to be fairly common among evangelicals about Israel's ultimate role in the end times. Yes, it's hard to say that, normally, the Republican party or right wing would support a backhanded relationship with Israel, but the Republican party actively uses religion to make its platform and policy. Remember that panel of religious clergy debating on birth control for women? Those people are more moderate than the ones I'm talking about.

/The right wing, in all fairness, uses the Holocaust to justify a lot. They don't usually talk about the End Times bit publicly. But that doesn't mean they don't imply it pretty heavily, or advocate positions that are illogical unless you want to start a war.
 
2012-11-17 12:19:08 AM
War is dumb.
 
2012-11-17 12:38:08 AM

theknuckler_33: Blue_Blazer: theknuckler_33: To farking hell with the both of them. Palestinians sure as shiat target civilians because they fire rockets nilly-willy wherever they go. Israelis are assholes because if 3 Israelis are killed, they kill 1500 Palestinian 'militants'.

fark them both in the ass. Go to war, you are on your own. FOAD and EABOD.

Point of order here: the Palestinian rockets are hardly capable of being aimed. I will not speculate as to whether it would make a difference. Probably not, as neither side seems interested in avoiding civilian casualities.

That was the point, they don't have weapons sophisticated enough to aim precisely at military targets, they just fire off rockets towards the nearest towns/cities. And, frankly, I don't blame them.


I don't always side with Israel, but in this case I do. If in fact Hamas thought for one moment that the re-election of President Obama would somehow strengthen their position while they lob Iranian rockets into Jerusalem, these people played the wrong hand. Hamas tried that four years ago and it did not work and will not work again. Now the prospects for a peaceful solution are set back years.
 
2012-11-17 12:39:13 AM

yousaywut: //Bad shiat happened and bad shiat will continue to happen unless somewhere somehow someone stops pointing the finger and starts talking to the other side.


the only who gives a shiat about this place are the psychos on the left and the right. the fark liberals, and the evangelicals. the scum of the earth basically. get the f*ck out of all of it, let it burn.
 
2012-11-17 01:01:48 AM
Huh they showed this happen on the American CNN but left out the whole mid-live debate thing, they just showed his skype feed.
 
2012-11-17 01:03:46 AM

PsiChick: Since you don't have TotalFark, I'm not sure how well you can see archived links, so here's a few choice quotes on Israel from fundies--the top two probably are enough, here's the Republican Party slamming the Democratic Platform for not wanting to hand Jerusalem to Israel exclusively, a policy which, if enacted, would cause a major war, (also listed on AP, I'm just using a lazy link) and here's a viewpoint I've found to be fairly common among evangelicals about Israel's ultimate role in the end times. Yes, it's hard to say that, normally, the Republican party or right wing would support a backhanded relationship with Israel, but the Republican party actively uses religion to make its platform and policy. Remember that panel of religious clergy debating on birth control for women? Those people are more moderate than the ones I'm talking about.


Show us actual US politicians voicing support for Israel in order to bring about armageddon. Cite reputable journalistic sources, or their own platforms.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

I'm not arguing for or against US intervention in this affair, but it's pretty clear that you've let some warped ideas get into your head. There are far more rational reasons why US politicians would like to see an Israeli conflict (like our weapons and private military industries). I'm not trying to say that no one has ever taken the point of view you're talking about, but they're the far and away exception. The vast majority of these people don't even mention religion when talking about US policy on Israel, much less advocating based off of biblical prophesy.
 
2012-11-17 01:08:04 AM

cman: Party Boy: New news

Israeli peace activist: Hamas leader Jabari killed amid talks on long-term truce
Hours before Hamas strongman Ahmed Jabari was assassinated, he received the draft of a permanent truce agreement with Israel, which included mechanisms for maintaining the cease-fire in the case of a flare-up between Israel and the factions in the Gaza Strip. This, according to Israeli peace activist Gershon Baskin, who helped mediate between Israel and Hamas in the deal to release Gilad Shalit and has since then maintained a relationship with Hamas leaders.

Baskin told Haaretz on Thursday that senior officials in Israel knew about his contacts with Hamas and Egyptian intelligence aimed at formulating the permanent truce, but nevertheless approved the assassination.

"I think that they have made a strategic mistake," Baskin said, an error "which will cost the lives of quite a number of innocent people on both sides."

How long are Hamas/Israeli truces good for again? 2 weeks? Isnt that the average before someone does something?


That would have been two more weeks then.
 
2012-11-17 01:08:04 AM

Fubini: Show us actual US politicians voicing support for Israel in order to bring about armageddon. Cite reputable journalistic sources, or their own platforms.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

I'm not arguing for or against US intervention in this affair, but it's pretty clear that you've let some warped ideas get into your head. There are far more rational reasons why US politicians would like to see an Israeli conflict


Can you do the same? Cite reputable journalistic sources, or their own platforms?
 
2012-11-17 01:13:40 AM

Fubini: PsiChick: Since you don't have TotalFark, I'm not sure how well you can see archived links, so here's a few choice quotes on Israel from fundies--the top two probably are enough, here's the Republican Party slamming the Democratic Platform for not wanting to hand Jerusalem to Israel exclusively, a policy which, if enacted, would cause a major war, (also listed on AP, I'm just using a lazy link) and here's a viewpoint I've found to be fairly common among evangelicals about Israel's ultimate role in the end times. Yes, it's hard to say that, normally, the Republican party or right wing would support a backhanded relationship with Israel, but the Republican party actively uses religion to make its platform and policy. Remember that panel of religious clergy debating on birth control for women? Those people are more moderate than the ones I'm talking about.

Show us actual US politicians voicing support for Israel in order to bring about armageddon. Cite reputable journalistic sources, or their own platforms.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

I'm not arguing for or against US intervention in this affair, but it's pretty clear that you've let some warped ideas get into your head. There are far more rational reasons why US politicians would like to see an Israeli conflict (like our weapons and private military industries). I'm not trying to say that no one has ever taken the point of view you're talking about, but they're the far and away exception. The vast majority of these people don't even mention religion when talking about US policy on Israel, much less advocating based off of biblical prophesy.


Um, the entire Republican party advocating a platform that would piss off the entirety of Islam and thus start a shiatstorm in the Middle East wasn't enough for you? I'm not saying that reasonable people do it; I'm saying unreasonable people do it.

And do you mind citing any other reasons the party of religion would support an Israeli conflict, keeping in mind that 'to gain power' is unlikely after Bush's huge unpopularity?
 
2012-11-17 01:16:32 AM

cman: One of the biggest issues in the 2012 elections was about the middle east. People on the left said shiat like "A vote for Jill Stein is a vote for Mitt Romney and allowing Israel to do whatever the fark they want". Well, guess what? Obama is letting Israel do whatever the fark they want, and you sit here biatching about the right while giving your guy a free pass. Ultrapartisanship, thats what this is


From what I understand (and this is coming from a lib, so take it with a grain of salt), was that America is going to let Israel do whatever they want regardless of the president. Mitt, however, seemed (at least to me) to be more willing to help with a ground war by sending troops in.

/I could be entirely wrong about this; it's just what I remember feeling.
//My vote wasn't based on what we do with Israel, but a host of other issues.
///I'm not well versed in Israel
////Slashies!
 
2012-11-17 01:17:43 AM

Party Boy: Fubini: Show us actual US politicians voicing support for Israel in order to bring about armageddon. Cite reputable journalistic sources, or their own platforms.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

I'm not arguing for or against US intervention in this affair, but it's pretty clear that you've let some warped ideas get into your head. There are far more rational reasons why US politicians would like to see an Israeli conflict

Can you do the same? Cite reputable journalistic sources, or their own platforms?


wtf are you talking about.
you don't even get how this works?
he's not claiming anything. he's asking her to back up her belief that "the right" is advancing a policy to bring on the end times. jesus, I can;t beleive how dumb some fo you folks are...
 
2012-11-17 01:18:40 AM

PsiChick: yousaywut: Really I mean really really you believe this? Yeah far right extremist arse holes in the evangelical community can go somewhere into this neighborhood of retarded but most normal people don't believe this. Please look farther back than 10 years this area has seen nothing but strife since back when the Israelites wiped out the Caananites or some shiat like that.

/The U.S. started helping modern Israel after they had already fought and won 2 major wars for survival and then mostly due to generational guild for having denied asylum to the European Jewish population during the holocaust.

//Bad shiat happened and bad shiat will continue to happen unless somewhere somehow someone stops pointing the finger and starts talking to the other side.

/It's a dream I'm entitled just like everyone:)

Yeah...I wasn't talking about normal people, I was talking about the right wing (not moderates), who are, nowadays, insane. There are many people, as I told cman, who do support Israel because of the Holocaust. That's understandable, but that's not evangelicals.

Since you don't have TotalFark, I'm not sure how well you can see archived links, so here's a few choice quotes on Israel from fundies--the top two probably are enough, here's the Republican Party slamming the Democratic Platform for not wanting to hand Jerusalem to Israel exclusively, a policy which, if enacted, would cause a major war, (also listed on AP, I'm just using a lazy link) and here's a viewpoint I've found to be fairly common among evangelicals about Israel's ultimate role in the end times. Yes, it's hard to say that, normally, the Republican party or right wing would support a backhanded relationship with Israel, but the Republican party actively uses religion to make its platform and policy. Remember that panel of religious clergy debating on birth control for women? Those people are more moderate than the ones I'm talking about.

/The right wing, in all fairness, uses the Holocaust to justify a lo ...


Right so that was insane reading. There are I am sure you are aware crazies on both sides of the political spectrum. Apparently the right has taken over the apocalypse version while the left holds the natural earth shaking us off version. There are always going to be people who take things too far (Jim Jones, The crazy comet people from Cali who's name I have forgotten, The Quakers, people like that on the right, The left version would be the Eco terrorists (name a group), Extreme atheists who truly believe faith is a mental condition, and those who believe there are just too many people on earth to sustain with the limited resources available, and other such groups). These are the fringes of society and should be shunned. That is the problem with todays instant information the fringes are having a much louder voice than they had at any other time in history. What is truly frightening is not that they exist but that the mainstream people are actually attaching these beliefs some sort of legitimacy by attaching them to the opposing ideology's team.

The moderate left in America is actually fairly conservative but you don't have to look too far to see the crazy from that side either. Jill Stein who's every answer in her debate ended with save the tree's for an example. you are correct there are those who would push toward war to begin Armageddon if they had the power to do so. For now those types are usually weeded out in low levels of power (which is good). What they don't realize or can't accept is that if what they believe is true actually is true then there is absolutely nothing that anyone from either side can do to either hurry it along or prevent it. (It being the end of the world). Of course this is the internet so crazy tends to come out and play quite a bit but there ya go.

As for Israel it is my position that America should continue its defense of Israel simply because of the promises made by us. This does not mean defend Israel from words nor does it mean never pointing out the issues as we see them. It does however mean that we should come to their aid if attacked by any foreign state. The Palestinians are currently not a state but that issue is completely farked and I can't see a good viable solution. (I guess I am not a political genius or something)

//My advise is to not let the crazy dictate policy nor attribute to an entire group the beliefs of the fringe.

/Ok feel free to jump all over this post because you see some belief of mine that I didn't actually ascribe to.
 
2012-11-17 01:20:59 AM

Party Boy: Fubini: Show us actual US politicians voicing support for Israel in order to bring about armageddon. Cite reputable journalistic sources, or their own platforms.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

I'm not arguing for or against US intervention in this affair, but it's pretty clear that you've let some warped ideas get into your head. There are far more rational reasons why US politicians would like to see an Israeli conflict

Can you do the same? Cite reputable journalistic sources, or their own platforms?


Here's the top hit on google.

Of course religion and politics are funny things. John King supported a terrorist organization but he loudly denounces terrorism. To say, to say, "I wanna bring about the kingdom of heaven as the bible foretold" is to have evangelicals donate their life savings to see you elected. To say, ""I wanna blow up the world in accordance with biblical prophecy," is to say the same damn thing but have everyone INCLUDING the evangelicals run the fark away. But to Fubini we're supposed to pretend that politicians don't know how to speak politically.
 
2012-11-17 01:22:43 AM

PsiChick: And do you mind citing any other reasons the party of religion would support an Israeli conflict, keeping in mind that 'to gain power' is unlikely after Bush's huge unpopularity?


Bush, Rove, etc. are often criticized using Evangelicals as eager pawns. "National Christian leaders received hugs and smiles in person and then were dismissed behind their backs and described as 'ridiculous,' 'out of control,' and just plain 'goofy,'"
 
2012-11-17 01:24:21 AM

PsiChick: Um, the entire Republican party advocating a platform that would piss off the entirety of Islam and thus start a shiatstorm in the Middle East wasn't enough for you? I'm not saying that reasonable people do it; I'm saying unreasonable people do it.

what are you talking about. a platform that will piss off 1 billion people and start a region wide conflict? etf are you talking about? when the republicans held the entire congress and the rpesidency back in 2006 where was tehis new world war you claim they could have and should have brought about?
you are consitently the least informed but vocal person here. how old are you?

 
2012-11-17 01:25:16 AM

relcec: yousaywut: //Bad shiat happened and bad shiat will continue to happen unless somewhere somehow someone stops pointing the finger and starts talking to the other side.

the only who gives a shiat about this place are the psychos on the left and the right. the fark liberals, and the evangelicals. the scum of the earth basically. get the f*ck out of all of it, let it burn.


No, I am not a Fark liberal nor am I evangelical and I give a shiat about this place for several reasons. Not the least of which is its historic value. Israel (Jerusalem in particular in my mind) is an incredible rich place in terms of history and religious iconography. Not many places on this planet are the focus of 3 major religions that I am aware of. So no don't let it burn.

//that is all don't let it burn.
 
2012-11-17 01:26:09 AM

TheBigJerk: Party Boy: Fubini: Show us actual US politicians voicing support for Israel in order to bring about armageddon. Cite reputable journalistic sources, or their own platforms.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

I'm not arguing for or against US intervention in this affair, but it's pretty clear that you've let some warped ideas get into your head. There are far more rational reasons why US politicians would like to see an Israeli conflict

Can you do the same? Cite reputable journalistic sources, or their own platforms?

Here's the top hit on google.

Of course religion and politics are funny things. John King supported a terrorist organization but he loudly denounces terrorism. To say, to say, "I wanna bring about the kingdom of heaven as the bible foretold" is to have evangelicals donate their life savings to see you elected. To say, ""I wanna blow up the world in accordance with biblical prophecy," is to say the same damn thing but have everyone INCLUDING the evangelicals run the fark away. But to Fubini we're supposed to pretend that politicians don't know how to speak politically.


I would like to do a little better than beliefnet, if its not too much to ask.

Evangelicals are a terrible lobbying group.
 
2012-11-17 01:29:01 AM
this is what I'm talking about.
psichick is obsessed by the region, but doesn't have a clue what the hell goes on there or even what the political positions of the various u.s. parties are. she has feelings about it though, and isn't afraid to let you know about them.
these are the white people that form the base of the modern democratic party. clueless but confident in they have all the answers even though the depth of their education is the dailykos website.
let's just get the f*ck out of the entire rest of the world.
 
2012-11-17 01:31:54 AM

Party Boy: PsiChick: And do you mind citing any other reasons the party of religion would support an Israeli conflict, keeping in mind that 'to gain power' is unlikely after Bush's huge unpopularity?

Bush, Rove, etc. are often criticized using Evangelicals as eager pawns. "National Christian leaders received hugs and smiles in person and then were dismissed behind their backs and described as 'ridiculous,' 'out of control,' and just plain 'goofy,'"


Yeah, but they aren't starting an outright war over it. Actually using military action from the Republican side in the Middle East...that's going to be one hell of a sell, so it's an unlikely thing to do. Using their own as pawns? Or even advocating Israel do something stupid? Yup, that won't hit triggers--but an outright, formally-declared war will.

yousaywut: //My advise is to not let the crazy dictate policy nor attribute to an entire group the beliefs of the fringe.

/Ok feel free to jump all over this post because you see some belief of mine that I didn't actually ascribe to.


...Not sure what you're saying here beyond 'both sides are bad so this didn't happen'. Did you read the link I posted where the Republican party, who are more moderate than the folks I was talking about, condemned Democrats for not advocating a position that, if it ever came to pass, would lead to devastating warfare? That's kind of a big clue there.


/I'm not supporting or condemning Israel in any of this, btw. I'm criticizing America's interactions with Israel, or at least the right-wing interactions. The 'ZOMG HOLOCAUST I MUST GIVE YOU MONEY EVEN IF YOU'RE THE AGRESSOR' bit...well, that's another conversation and I'm not going there.
 
2012-11-17 01:33:19 AM

yousaywut: No, I am not a Fark liberal nor am I evangelical and I give a shiat about this place for several reasons


well your just not very smart then. it hasn't seen peace since the ottoman empire (which itself had zero redeeming qualities) was picked apart and won't until long after our grandkids are dead. and people like you obsessing over a place because something happened there a couple millennia ago is why it's a f*cking mess in the first place.
 
2012-11-17 01:36:28 AM

Party Boy: would like to do a little better than beliefnet


The book excerpt isnt that bad, though it doesnt seem to answer the question.
During the early 1980s the Israeli Ministry of Tourism recruited evangelical religious leaders for free "familiarization" tours. In time, hundreds of evangelical pastors got free trips to the Holy Land. The purpose of such promotional tours was to enable people of even limited influence to experience Israel for themselves and be shown how they might bring their own tour group to Israel. The Ministry of Tourism was interested in more than tourist dollars: here was a way of building a solid corps of non-Jewish supporters for Israel in the United States by bringing large numbers of evangelicals to hear and see Israel's story for themselves. The strategy caught on.

Getting American evangelicals to travel to Israel was only half of the Israeli strategy. The other half was to create a politically-engaged, pro-Israel force among conservative American Christians in the United States. Shortly after the Six-Day War, elements within the Israeli government saw the potential power of the evangelical subculture and began to mobilize it as a base of support that could influence American foreign policy. The Israeli government sent Yona Malachy of its Department of Religious Affairs to the United States to study American fundamentalism and its potential as an ally of Israel. Malachy was warmly received by fundamentalists and was able to influence some of them to issue strong pro-Israeli manifestos. By the mid-1980s, there was a discernible shift in the Israeli political strategy. The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), the Jewish state's major lobbying group in Washington, D.C., started re-aligning itself with the American political right-wing, including Christian conservatives. Israel's timing was perfect. It began working seriously with American dispensationalists at the precise moment that American fundamentalists and evangelicals were discovering their political voice.

American dispensationalists liked the attention and were willing to organize their constituents to support Israel in a variety of ways. One of the first groups of this kind was the National Leadership Conference for Israel, founded by Pentecostal preacher David Lewis. It supports Israel by scheduling conferences, organizing letter-writing campaigns, placing advertisements in newspapers and putting on large public rallies. Another group is Christians for Israel, whose main purpose is to help Jews from the former Soviet Union immigrate to Israel. Its "exodus" program claims to assist 1,200 Jews per month.

Probably the largest pro-Israel organization of its kind is the National Unity Coalition for Israel, which was founded by a Jewish woman who learned how to get dispensationalist support. NUCI opposes "the establishment of a Palestinian state within the borders of Israel." The organization distributes an array of newsletters and "chutzpah action alerts" to keep its members informed and involved and claims that it can mount a "virtual March on the White House" at a moment's notice if necessary.
I don't see how this book excerpt covers the larger issue on why US politicians do what they do.
 
2012-11-17 01:36:39 AM

PsiChick:

Yeah, but they aren't starting an outright war over it. Actually using military action from the Republican side in the Middle East...that's going to be one hell of a sell, so it's an unlikely thing to do. Using their own as pawns? Or even advocating Israel do something stupid? Yup, that won't hit triggers--but an outright, formally-declared war will.



this i9s what democrats actually believe. I have no idea what it means to be honest, but you can feel the batshiat cat lady vibes flowing through the coaxial cable.
 
2012-11-17 01:40:52 AM

PsiChick: Yeah, but they aren't starting an outright war over it. Actually using military action from the Republican side in the Middle East...that's going to be one hell of a sell, so it's an unlikely thing to do. Using their own as pawns? Or even advocating Israel do something stupid? Yup, that won't hit triggers--but an outright, formally-declared war will.


Probably the biggest (and at least a major) reason that a formally declared war is a hard sell is that there was just a formally declared war that turned out to be a big problem.

This was pushed by a very easily defined group of people.
 
2012-11-17 01:41:55 AM

PsiChick: ...Not sure what you're saying here beyond 'both sides are bad so this didn't happen'. Did you read the link I posted where the Republican party, who are more moderate than the folks I was talking about, condemned Democrats for not advocating a position that, if it ever came to pass, would lead to devastating warfare? That's kind of a big clue there.


/I'm not supporting or condemning Israel in any of this, btw. I'm criticizing America's interactions with Israel, or at least the right-wing interactions. The 'ZOMG HOLOCAUST I MUST GIVE YOU MONEY EVEN IF YOU'RE THE AGRESSOR' bit...well, that's another conversation and I'm not going there.



No I am saying the fringes are nuts. Also condemning the Democratic Party for either holding or not holding any position on any subject that's kind of what politicians do so I don't really put much stock in that. Mostly because there is too much of the extending of the other side's position to the point of absurdity.

//Most democrats I know don't want to go all communist or socialist they just want people to have a fair shot as surviving life's unexpected curves. I see nothing wrong with this position but if you talk to a Republican partisan this position doesn't exist.

As an alternate example to your statement that the Republicans want a war with 1billion people. That isn't accurate either.
 
2012-11-17 01:44:35 AM

relcec: yousaywut: No, I am not a Fark liberal nor am I evangelical and I give a shiat about this place for several reasons

well your just not very smart then. it hasn't seen peace since the ottoman empire (which itself had zero redeeming qualities) was picked apart and won't until long after our grandkids are dead. and people like you obsessing over a place because something happened there a couple millennia ago is why it's a f*cking mess in the first place.


The area had peace before the Ottoman empire? Peace is relative because I am fairly sure that the threat of death keeps a lot of people peaceful but it doesn't make for easy living.

Also I am fair to midlin intelligent at least according to the tests I had to take so there is that.
 
2012-11-17 01:45:01 AM

relcec: PsiChick:

Yeah, but they aren't starting an outright war over it. Actually using military action from the Republican side in the Middle East...that's going to be one hell of a sell, so it's an unlikely thing to do. Using their own as pawns? Or even advocating Israel do something stupid? Yup, that won't hit triggers--but an outright, formally-declared war will.


this i9s what democrats actually believe. I have no idea what it means to be honest, but you can feel the batshiat cat lady vibes flowing through the coaxial cable.


And you know what I don't do? Walk into a thread and slam someone without being bothered to so much as quote them so they know I'm talking shiat about them. Especially when I'm trying to claim an actual, stated position of a political party noted by the farking AP is a 'feeling' and the other person's 'depth of education is from the DailyKos website'.

/Although, in all fairness to you, you seem to be allergic to using proper capitalization, so maybe you meant to quote me but just can't write.
 
2012-11-17 01:50:25 AM
You know the more i read about this the more i think that both Hamas and Israel have made a tactical error here. I think that Hamas just wanted a little dust-up like they have had before and misjudged how Israel would respond. It also seems like Israel misread hamas intentions and hit back a lot harder than hamas figured they would.  Which triggered a much larger response from Hamas and other groups. And now it just keeps escalating on itself.
 
2012-11-17 01:54:10 AM

Party Boy: PsiChick: Yeah, but they aren't starting an outright war over it. Actually using military action from the Republican side in the Middle East...that's going to be one hell of a sell, so it's an unlikely thing to do. Using their own as pawns? Or even advocating Israel do something stupid? Yup, that won't hit triggers--but an outright, formally-declared war will.

Probably the biggest (and at least a major) reason that a formally declared war is a hard sell is that there was just a formally declared war that turned out to be a big problem.

This was pushed by a very easily defined group of people.


Pretty much what I was saying. :)

yousaywut: PsiChick: ...Not sure what you're saying here beyond 'both sides are bad so this didn't happen'. Did you read the link I posted where the Republican party, who are more moderate than the folks I was talking about, condemned Democrats for not advocating a position that, if it ever came to pass, would lead to devastating warfare? That's kind of a big clue there.


/I'm not supporting or condemning Israel in any of this, btw. I'm criticizing America's interactions with Israel, or at least the right-wing interactions. The 'ZOMG HOLOCAUST I MUST GIVE YOU MONEY EVEN IF YOU'RE THE AGRESSOR' bit...well, that's another conversation and I'm not going there.


No I am saying the fringes are nuts. Also condemning the Democratic Party for either holding or not holding any position on any subject that's kind of what politicians do so I don't really put much stock in that. Mostly because there is too much of the extending of the other side's position to the point of absurdity.

//Most democrats I know don't want to go all communist or socialist they just want people to have a fair shot as surviving life's unexpected curves. I see nothing wrong with this position but if you talk to a Republican partisan this position doesn't exist.

As an alternate example to your statement that the Republicans want a war with 1billion people. That isn't accurate either.


Ah. Well, no, the Republicans have been championing this one for a while, it's a long-standing point with them. I'm not sure how that equates to wanting a war with a billion people--they just want to go do cool stuff, I think.

I agree the fringes are crazy, though. They're just influential crazy, which is why I bring them up. :)
 
2012-11-17 01:54:18 AM

Tellingthem: You know the more i read about this the more i think that both Hamas and Israel have made a tactical error here. I think that Hamas just wanted a little dust-up like they have had before and misjudged how Israel would respond. It also seems like Israel misread hamas intentions and hit back a lot harder than hamas figured they would.  Which triggered a much larger response from Hamas and other groups. And now it just keeps escalating on itself.


Is this a repeat from the past 30 years or so?
 
2012-11-17 01:56:41 AM

Tellingthem: You know the more i read about this the more i think that both Hamas and Israel have made a tactical error here. I think that Hamas just wanted a little dust-up like they have had before and misjudged how Israel would respond. It also seems like Israel misread hamas intentions and hit back a lot harder than hamas figured they would.  Which triggered a much larger response from Hamas and other groups. And now it just keeps escalating on itself.


I'm having a real difficult time finding a clear "start."

i.imgur.com

Its like trying to pick out one break where this turns from white to black.
If you are able to do that, please fill me in.
 
2012-11-17 01:58:31 AM

PsiChick: Pretty much what I was saying. :)


Yeah, I'm not really arguing as much as I'm sitting here, wanting a little background.

No antagonism. Hot chocolate.
 
2012-11-17 02:00:36 AM

yousaywut: Tellingthem: You know the more i read about this the more i think that both Hamas and Israel have made a tactical error here. I think that Hamas just wanted a little dust-up like they have had before and misjudged how Israel would respond. It also seems like Israel misread hamas intentions and hit back a lot harder than hamas figured they would.  Which triggered a much larger response from Hamas and other groups. And now it just keeps escalating on itself.

Is this a repeat from the past 30 years or so?


Kind of i guess. It just seems like there has been a slow progression towards some stability over the last couple of years. And for everything to suddenly explode like this and in this dramatic of a fashion. It just seems more odd than the usual spats they have.

\or maybe i'm just reading to much and it's just one of those things you can't explain
 
2012-11-17 02:05:53 AM

Party Boy: Tellingthem: You know the more i read about this the more i think that both Hamas and Israel have made a tactical error here. I think that Hamas just wanted a little dust-up like they have had before and misjudged how Israel would respond. It also seems like Israel misread hamas intentions and hit back a lot harder than hamas figured they would.  Which triggered a much larger response from Hamas and other groups. And now it just keeps escalating on itself.

I'm having a real difficult time finding a clear "start."

[i.imgur.com image 250x141]

Its like trying to pick out one break where this turns from white to black.
If you are able to do that, please fill me in.


Not a real start i would say but a slow build. Kind of bits and pieces i've strung together. It seem like Hamas was keeping relatively quiet until October. Link
"In recent years Hamas, which does not recognize Israel's right to exist, has largely adhered to an informal cease-fire, raising questions on both sides about the timing of the latest escalation."
 
2012-11-17 02:08:37 AM

Party Boy: PsiChick: Pretty much what I was saying. :)

Yeah, I'm not really arguing as much as I'm sitting here, wanting a little background.

No antagonism. Hot chocolate.


Hot chocolate is fantastic. Someday I'll figure out how to add peppermint to it without needing to melt candy in...
 
2012-11-17 02:16:16 AM

Tellingthem: Not a real start i would say but a slow build. Kind of bits and pieces i've strung together. It seem like Hamas was keeping relatively quiet until October. Link
"In recent years Hamas, which does not recognize Israel's right to exist, has largely adhered to an informal cease-fire, raising questions on both sides about the timing of the latest escalation."


Alright, lets play a game. I hope it doesnt engender the passionate feelings this subject usually has.

You pick an event, and Ill pick a counter event within a week. Will you be OK with that. I'm sure we could stretch that back for a few years. If you are not OK, thats fine. let me know.

Full disclosure, Isabel Kershner, the author of that piece, is "thoroughly Israeli" and an author listed in the Israel Hasbara Committee.
 
2012-11-17 02:17:16 AM

Leo Bloom's Freakout: El Pachuco: gaspode: LasersHurt:

Also, absolutely nobody believes that the Israelis are going to not hurt any civilians. That's ridiculous. I'd go so far as to say they're not intentionally targeting major civilian targets, sure, they're not monsters. But they're bombing the place - they're gonna get civilians.

Two things there..

There IS a difference between targeting civilians and simply not giving a fark or making any effort to avoid them, but it isn't a huge difference in the end.
A non-trivial faction in Israel considers ALL Palestinians to be legitimate military targets. Just as a (probably larger) faction in the Palestinian population thinks all Israelis are legitimate military targets.

There is plenty of revulsion to go around unfortunately

There's also a huge difference in technology - the Palestinians are using WW2-era low-tech rockets, fired in that general direction over there and uncontrollable after launch.

The Israelis are firing guided missiles from state-of-the-art helicopters and airplanes, or dropping bombs from aircraft with computer-aided target systems. They are able to put a missile into a single specific window on a building if they want to. That the bombs and missiles and missiles are hitting all over Gaza is not an accident.

I'm not taking sides with that comment - it's the reality of the situation.

Add in the "Hamas is using civilian structures and civilians as human shields" factor and it becomes very easy to write off casualities. Not sure how often it's true, but seems possible if the people launching rockets are members of the region who are militarized by the living conditions, religion, or other motivating factors; they could be using their homes as improv launch platforms. Unless it's fixed, they make an apartment complex a military target by wanting to launch from the high ground.


Back up. It should NEVER be very easy to write off casualties. Just as it should never be easy to pull the It's Ok As Long As You're X card. The dehumanization of the Palestinians is absurd. The putting on a pedestal of Isrealis, Israeli motives and Israeli actions is absurd.

The day can't come soon enough when Israel -- like apartheid era South Africa before it -- is allowed to be judged fully as the monster it is.
 
2012-11-17 02:18:53 AM

PsiChick: Hot chocolate is fantastic.


Yes. Its something everyone can come together on.
 
2012-11-17 02:19:14 AM
You can see the light of the blast reflected in the guys face.

/danger close
/make it rain
 
2012-11-17 02:24:56 AM

Party Boy: PsiChick: Hot chocolate is fantastic.

Yes. Its something everyone can come together on.


So we flood the Middle East with hot chocolate. BRILLIANT!
 
2012-11-17 02:26:25 AM

PsiChick: Party Boy: PsiChick: Pretty much what I was saying. :)

Yeah, I'm not really arguing as much as I'm sitting here, wanting a little background.

No antagonism. Hot chocolate.

Hot chocolate is fantastic. Someday I'll figure out how to add peppermint to it without needing to melt candy in...


Peppermint Schnapps.
 
2012-11-17 02:28:50 AM

Mentalpatient87: So we flood the Middle East with hot chocolate. BRILLIANT!


Bonzo_1116: Peppermint Schnapps.


Heh.
 
2012-11-17 02:35:32 AM

Party Boy: Tellingthem: Not a real start i would say but a slow build. Kind of bits and pieces i've strung together. It seem like Hamas was keeping relatively quiet until October. Link
"In recent years Hamas, which does not recognize Israel's right to exist, has largely adhered to an informal cease-fire, raising questions on both sides about the timing of the latest escalation."

Alright, lets play a game. I hope it doesnt engender the passionate feelings this subject usually has.

You pick an event, and Ill pick a counter event within a week. Will you be OK with that. I'm sure we could stretch that back for a few years. If you are not OK, thats fine. let me know.

Full disclosure, Isabel Kershner, the author of that piece, is "thoroughly Israeli" and an author listed in the Israel Hasbara Committee.


No passion feelings here. i'm not trying to say one side is better than another or anything like that. Basically i think the entire thing was a power play for Hamas to start asserting more control over the territories. And that article you posted about the permanent truce kind of filled in the blank Basically I'll lay it out. Hamas boycotted the recent elections where the PLO had a not so great result. Also the PLO wants to go to the UN to try and get non-member status. And they have accused Hamas of trying to sabotage that. So i think they started the little dust-up hoping to get divert attention away from the un thing and also because of the weak election. Also it would help them get some popularity and support in the West Bank. And if that permanent peace treaty was true that would help cement them into power by weakening the PLO and their solution and coming up with their own. Add to that the Hamas friendly government in Egypt for additional it just kind of made sense. To me at least.

\ It could also be the dumbest idea in the world. but it's Friday night, I'm home and I got nothing better to do.
 
2012-11-17 02:43:21 AM

Tellingthem: yousaywut: Tellingthem: You know the more i read about this the more i think that both Hamas and Israel have made a tactical error here. I think that Hamas just wanted a little dust-up like they have had before and misjudged how Israel would respond. It also seems like Israel misread hamas intentions and hit back a lot harder than hamas figured they would.  Which triggered a much larger response from Hamas and other groups. And now it just keeps escalating on itself.

Is this a repeat from the past 30 years or so?

Kind of i guess. It just seems like there has been a slow progression towards some stability over the last couple of years. And for everything to suddenly explode like this and in this dramatic of a fashion. It just seems more odd than the usual spats they have.

\or maybe i'm just reading to much and it's just one of those things you can't explain


It's a repeated pattern over and over again. Palestinian fringe groups attack Israel with little hits here and there until someone says enough and then Israel hits back harder and everyone in the world goes aaaw you shouldn't have done that. Next step peace negotiations during which there will be little hits again and so on. It is ridiculous and sad since both sides should really be pissed at Britain for setting up the whole deal.
 
2012-11-17 02:45:45 AM

Tellingthem: No passion feelings here. i'm not trying to say one side is better than another or anything like that. Basically i think the entire thing was a power play for Hamas to start asserting more control over the territories. And that article you posted about the permanent truce kind of filled in the blank Basically I'll lay it out. Hamas boycotted the recent elections where the PLO had a not so great result. Also the PLO wants to go to the UN to try and get non-member status. And they have accused Hamas of trying to sabotage that. So i think they started the little dust-up hoping to get divert attention away from the un thing and also because of the weak election. Also it would help them get some popularity and support in the West Bank. And if that permanent peace treaty was true that would help cement them into power by weakening the PLO and their solution and coming up with their own. Add to that the Hamas friendly government in Egypt for additional it just kind of made sense. To me at least.


But there are a few implications here that need to be addressed.
• First is the omission of the that the Israelis -the big dog- lack agency. The powerful member who has the area • blockaded and is preparing to invade is not mentioned. Instead, all agency of the issue is given to Hamas. Peculiar.
• Second, if you are going to talk about the entire thing, as it were, you've defined a discrete event with a start. The problem is, how do you do that?
• Third, you need to mention the Israeli elections.
 
2012-11-17 02:53:17 AM

yousaywut: Palestinian fringe groups attack Israel with little hits here and there until someone says enough and then Israel hits back


This is a narrative, where a side is relegated to a reluctant actor, and their actions are measured in self defense. its an overly simplistic viewpoint that omits concepts like the blockade or the settlements that are widely known.

The problem is, when this paradigm is criticized, some people can get rather inflamed over the issue and try to cram in the paradigm over the criticism. For example, a common reply is to say, incorrectly, that the blockade was in place only in response to Hamas. However, the blockade was in place years before this. Airspace and sea ports were controlled during the 2005 "withdrawal."

One of the largest problems to dialogue on this subject are the simplistic paradigms, and the outright anger you face when exposing it as such. its the only subject where I've received death threats.
 
2012-11-17 03:05:02 AM

Party Boy: Tellingthem: No passion feelings here. i'm not trying to say one side is better than another or anything like that. Basically i think the entire thing was a power play for Hamas to start asserting more control over the territories. And that article you posted about the permanent truce kind of filled in the blank Basically I'll lay it out. Hamas boycotted the recent elections where the PLO had a not so great result. Also the PLO wants to go to the UN to try and get non-member status. And they have accused Hamas of trying to sabotage that. So i think they started the little dust-up hoping to get divert attention away from the un thing and also because of the weak election. Also it would help them get some popularity and support in the West Bank. And if that permanent peace treaty was true that would help cement them into power by weakening the PLO and their solution and coming up with their own. Add to that the Hamas friendly government in Egypt for additional it just kind of made sense. To me at least.

But there are a few implications here that need to be addressed.
• First is the omission of the that the Israelis -the big dog- lack agency. The powerful member who has the area • blockaded and is preparing to invade is not mentioned. Instead, all agency of the issue is given to Hamas. Peculiar.
• Second, if you are going to talk about the entire thing, as it were, you've defined a discrete event with a start. The problem is, how do you do that?
• Third, you need to mention the Israeli elections.


It's all a rough theory that hit me about an hour ago so it is relatively simplistic still. Just bits and pieces that seem to fit into a larger puzzle. I'm not trying to figure out the entire middle east nor solve the problem. For me i just saw a possible rationale for this one specific event. i know it is a very complicated history and there have been waxes and wanes to the violence. I'm just one of those people who finds the entire thing interesting and like to keep tabs on it. And i've been reading up on it a lot more in the past few days. And just had this moment of "inspiration?" where I thought maybe I could see something with some clarity into it. Or I could be totally wrong on everything and just rambling like a bored ex-history major. I could expand upon it further if you would like. I'm just not sure if it would be worth it though...especially if I'm way off the mark.
 
2012-11-17 03:05:06 AM

Fubini: PsiChick: Since you don't have TotalFark, I'm not sure how well you can see archived links, so here's a few choice quotes on Israel from fundies--the top two probably are enough, here's the Republican Party slamming the Democratic Platform for not wanting to hand Jerusalem to Israel exclusively, a policy which, if enacted, would cause a major war, (also listed on AP, I'm just using a lazy link) and here's a viewpoint I've found to be fairly common among evangelicals about Israel's ultimate role in the end times. Yes, it's hard to say that, normally, the Republican party or right wing would support a backhanded relationship with Israel, but the Republican party actively uses religion to make its platform and policy. Remember that panel of religious clergy debating on birth control for women? Those people are more moderate than the ones I'm talking about.

Show us actual US politicians voicing support for Israel in order to bring about armageddon. Cite reputable journalistic sources, or their own platforms.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

I'm not arguing for or against US intervention in this affair, but it's pretty clear that you've let some warped ideas get into your head. There are far more rational reasons why US politicians would like to see an Israeli conflict (like our weapons and private military industries). I'm not trying to say that no one has ever taken the point of view you're talking about, but they're the far and away exception. The vast majority of these people don't even mention religion when talking about US policy on Israel, much less advocating based off of biblical prophesy.


I'm going to drop a fact on you that I hope will challenge your assumption about this...

Israel is the only country in the world that recieves US military aid that is allowed to spend 25% of it on their own domestic military projects. While certainly there is a large amount of pork barreling going on in the 3 billion a year we give them in military aid, a large portion of that agreement can't be settled on the case of greed alone, since we are giving them hundreds of millions of dollars to spend as they wish, and not with our military industrial complex.
 
2012-11-17 03:13:40 AM

Tellingthem: It's all a rough theory that hit me about an hour ago so it is relatively simplistic still. Just bits and pieces that seem to fit into a larger puzzle. I'm not trying to figure out the entire middle east nor solve the problem. For me i just saw a possible rationale for this one specific event. i know it is a very complicated history and there have been waxes and wanes to the violence. I'm just one of those people who finds the entire thing interesting and like to keep tabs on it. And i've been reading up on it a lot more in the past few days. And just had this moment of "inspiration?" where I thought maybe I could see something with some clarity into it. Or I could be totally wrong on everything and just rambling like a bored ex-history major. I could expand upon it further if you would like. I'm just not sure if it would be worth it though...especially if I'm way off the mark.


Considering how you are going to have a really tough time finding a "start" among the gradient of hostilities, its going to be beneficial to look at a comprehensive, mainstream, and widely respected work on the subject. Anything less has the very likely capacity to steer you towards abject propaganda. It is the safe and, ultimately, your quickest bet.
 
2012-11-17 03:20:26 AM
What a joke you are CNN. The whole thing was funny and sad.

CNN cuts away to pictures of family while the Israeli is talking, showing their obvious bias in this "debate". They found a Palestinian willing to talk but wanted to use him as a prop to slant their portrayal of the conflict as they saw fit. Like when Fox News finds a token Democrat to badger yet call it being open to all sides. But they never realized they'd capture the sounds of bombs going off nearby on video, with the last one showing a reflection of the bomb blast right on his face!

None of the execs at CNN really cared Mr. Sulamain survived. They just regret that they gave away a sliver of truth at how much worse the average person in Gaza is suffering compared to the average Israeli.
 
2012-11-17 03:22:31 AM
The classics

The Israel-Palestine Conflict: One Hundred Years of War by James L. Gelvin

Palestine and the Arab-Israeli Conflict: A History with Documents by Charles D. Smith

You can do this right, the first time. It can seem like a lot of reading, but you seriously handle the issue much faster. Writing something like this is painstaking and difficult to synthesize. When you get it, you are getting a sleek and comprehensive, one stop shopping work - despite its size. Imagine being pretty well read on the subject in the span of about a week. Thats an amazing thing.
 
2012-11-17 03:26:06 AM

Party Boy: Tellingthem: It's all a rough theory that hit me about an hour ago so it is relatively simplistic still. Just bits and pieces that seem to fit into a larger puzzle. I'm not trying to figure out the entire middle east nor solve the problem. For me i just saw a possible rationale for this one specific event. i know it is a very complicated history and there have been waxes and wanes to the violence. I'm just one of those people who finds the entire thing interesting and like to keep tabs on it. And i've been reading up on it a lot more in the past few days. And just had this moment of "inspiration?" where I thought maybe I could see something with some clarity into it. Or I could be totally wrong on everything and just rambling like a bored ex-history major. I could expand upon it further if you would like. I'm just not sure if it would be worth it though...especially if I'm way off the mark.

Considering how you are going to have a really tough time finding a "start" among the gradient of hostilities, its going to be beneficial to look at a comprehensive, mainstream, and widely respected work on the subject. Anything less has the very likely capacity to steer you towards abject propaganda. It is the safe and, ultimately, your quickest bet.


Yeah I know, kind of one of those ideas where i get really excited about it, but to actually make a coherent case for it would take quite awhile if it would be even possible. Kind of wish i was back in college. Would make for one hell of a research paper. Seems funny how just a couple of words in an article can get the hamsters in my head a churning.
 
2012-11-17 03:26:25 AM

beer4breakfast: What a joke you are CNN. The whole thing was funny and sad.

CNN cuts away to pictures of family while the Israeli is talking, showing their obvious bias in this "debate". They found a Palestinian willing to talk but wanted to use him as a prop to slant their portrayal of the conflict as they saw fit. Like when Fox News finds a token Democrat to badger yet call it being open to all sides. But they never realized they'd capture the sounds of bombs going off nearby on video, with the last one showing a reflection of the bomb blast right on his face!

None of the execs at CNN really cared Mr. Sulamain survived. They just regret that they gave away a sliver of truth at how much worse the average person in Gaza is suffering compared to the average Israeli.


I just watched the nightly news on Tivo. Every perspective was from the Israeli side. There were perspectives from the Israeli PM to the common person. The Palestinians were covered in so how they launch rockets. What happened on CNN is a unique perspective for U.S. television media, even if it was unintentional. We usually get our bombing human side from Sderot.
If you get your information from the US TV, thats likely what you are going to find.
 
2012-11-17 03:29:59 AM

Tellingthem: Yeah I know, kind of one of those ideas where i get really excited about it, but to actually make a coherent case for it would take quite awhile if it would be even possible. Kind of wish i was back in college. Would make for one hell of a research paper. Seems funny how just a couple of words in an article can get the hamsters in my head a churning.


Imagine that you can read a comprehensive work (or two), and in the span of about a week (a month if you are busy, you can be quite knowledgeable on the the subject. The hard part is having someone prepare that work for you. Its an amazing thing. You don't need to wonder. What you are looking for is there. The extra bonus, that information stays relevant. its not like you get to inject a deep knowledgeable about the Austrian Empire in topical conversations.
 
2012-11-17 03:31:38 AM

Party Boy: The classics

The Israel-Palestine Conflict: One Hundred Years of War by James L. Gelvin

Palestine and the Arab-Israeli Conflict: A History with Documents by Charles D. Smith

You can do this right, the first time. It can seem like a lot of reading, but you seriously handle the issue much faster. Writing something like this is painstaking and difficult to synthesize. When you get it, you are getting a sleek and comprehensive, one stop shopping work - despite its size. Imagine being pretty well read on the subject in the span of about a week. Thats an amazing thing.


Thanks always appreciate some good books to read.
 
2012-11-17 03:33:44 AM
I chopped the sentences up and borked some of the grammar up there. whew.
 
2012-11-17 03:37:32 AM

Tellingthem: Thanks always appreciate some good books to read.


Thats your best bet. its your fastest route to ass-kicking foundational knowledge.

I see gelvins work is expensive now.
theres this

One Land, Two Peoples: The Conflict Over Palestine, Second Edition (Dilemmas in World Politics) by Deborah J. Gerner

and a more, ummm, myth breaking work by Benny Morris called Righteous Victims: A History of the Zionist-Arab Conflict, 1881-2001

but I'd put them under the first two. We're looking for totally mainstream, well-regarded, and comprehensive.
 
2012-11-17 03:39:45 AM

YouAreItNoTagBacks: Best strategy for both sides: Israel stops building settlements, lightens the blockade to allow aid and stops trying to block the PLO in the UN. This would take away some of Hamas' justification for violence and raise global sympathy for Israel. At the same time, Abbas could that window to push for non-violent resistance and counter terrorist messaging.

Chances of that happening without serious pressure from the US on Israel...0.


Israel was attacked first, and now they should retreat...??? Where do you live that you would feel the same way if a terrorist group fired rockets into your neighborhood?
 
2012-11-17 03:40:15 AM

Party Boy: yousaywut: Palestinian fringe groups attack Israel with little hits here and there until someone says enough and then Israel hits back

This is a narrative, where a side is relegated to a reluctant actor, and their actions are measured in self defense. its an overly simplistic viewpoint that omits concepts like the blockade or the settlements that are widely known.

The problem is, when this paradigm is criticized, some people can get rather inflamed over the issue and try to cram in the paradigm over the criticism. For example, a common reply is to say, incorrectly, that the blockade was in place only in response to Hamas. However, the blockade was in place years before this. Airspace and sea ports were controlled during the 2005 "withdrawal."

One of the largest problems to dialogue on this subject are the simplistic paradigms, and the outright anger you face when exposing it as such. its the only subject where I've received death threats.


Silence infidel........I keel you.

Yes there are many factors not written in any simplified paradigm. For example before 1967 the Palestinians were attacking Israel. Now everyone wants Israel to go back to the 1967 lines. Yes I am aware that they were Jordanians and Egyptians I am not really trying to be dead on exact in my examples people have written entire dissertations on individual aspects of this conflict I am just too lazy for that much research.

It's really odd that having an entire existence based on violent struggle leads a country to be violent.

//There is no real way to go back and fix the past like I said someone somewhere has to start the forgiving and I am just not so sure that either side has the leadership capable of selling that yet.
 
2012-11-17 03:41:51 AM

tjfly: Israel was attacked first


Great. Lets have you pinpoint this clean break along this large gradient of a conflict.

It was certainly much easier to do this for the 2008 conflict. I see great difficulty for anyone selecting a break without it being very arbitrary. Maybe you will surprise me.
 
2012-11-17 03:46:22 AM

yousaywut: Silence infidel........I keel you.

Yes there are many factors not written in any simplified paradigm. For example before 1967 the Palestinians were attacking Israel. Now everyone wants Israel to go back to the 1967 lines. Yes I am aware that they were Jordanians and Egyptians I am not really trying to be dead on exact in my examples people have written entire dissertations on individual aspects of this conflict I am just too lazy for that much research.

It's really odd that having an entire existence based on violent struggle leads a country to be violent.

//There is no real way to go back and fix the past like I said someone somewhere has to start the forgiving and I am just not so sure that either side has the leadership capable of selling that yet.


The problem is, is that it really doesn't take a whole bunch of time to sit down with a solid comprehensive book and get yourself up to speed. Think about it. A week or a month and you have a solid foundation down. Thats it. Thats knowledge you'll absolutely use in the future.
 
2012-11-17 03:49:18 AM

Party Boy: tjfly: Israel was attacked first

Great. Lets have you pinpoint this clean break along this large gradient of a conflict.

It was certainly much easier to do this for the 2008 conflict. I see great difficulty for anyone selecting a break without it being very arbitrary. Maybe you will surprise me.


1948 founding day. there ya go:) but they were not attacked by Palestinians so there is that.Or maybe 400 BCE give or take a century I am not looking up dates attacked By the Romans and kicked out of the area. Or a few hundred years earlier attacked by the Greeks. There really is a rather long history of people attacking the area.

/ So I arbitrarily select The Roman invasion cause those guys were serious dicks until they had control.
 
2012-11-17 03:51:17 AM

Party Boy: beer4breakfast: What a joke you are CNN. The whole thing was funny and sad.

CNN cuts away to pictures of family while the Israeli is talking, showing their obvious bias in this "debate". They found a Palestinian willing to talk but wanted to use him as a prop to slant their portrayal of the conflict as they saw fit. Like when Fox News finds a token Democrat to badger yet call it being open to all sides. But they never realized they'd capture the sounds of bombs going off nearby on video, with the last one showing a reflection of the bomb blast right on his face!

None of the execs at CNN really cared Mr. Sulamain survived. They just regret that they gave away a sliver of truth at how much worse the average person in Gaza is suffering compared to the average Israeli.

I just watched the nightly news on Tivo. Every perspective was from the Israeli side. There were perspectives from the Israeli PM to the common person. The Palestinians were covered in so how they launch rockets. What happened on CNN is a unique perspective for U.S. television media, even if it was unintentional. We usually get our bombing human side from Sderot.
If you get your information from the US TV, thats likely what you are going to find.


You saw what you wanted to see. It's not that I am saying that you are full of shiat, it's just that humans have difficulty seeing things in a neutral eye when that person has picked a side. We tend to ignore information that does not conform to our preconceptions. I haven't see what you have, so I cannot comment on the content. All I am saying is that you shouldn't fall into the bias trap that we set ourselves up for.
 
2012-11-17 03:52:03 AM

Party Boy: yousaywut: Silence infidel........I keel you.

Yes there are many factors not written in any simplified paradigm. For example before 1967 the Palestinians were attacking Israel. Now everyone wants Israel to go back to the 1967 lines. Yes I am aware that they were Jordanians and Egyptians I am not really trying to be dead on exact in my examples people have written entire dissertations on individual aspects of this conflict I am just too lazy for that much research.

It's really odd that having an entire existence based on violent struggle leads a country to be violent.

//There is no real way to go back and fix the past like I said someone somewhere has to start the forgiving and I am just not so sure that either side has the leadership capable of selling that yet.

The problem is, is that it really doesn't take a whole bunch of time to sit down with a solid comprehensive book and get yourself up to speed. Think about it. A week or a month and you have a solid foundation down. Thats it. Thats knowledge you'll absolutely use in the future.


My foundation in solid though I admit most likely biased. I do however listen to all perspectives. Just to be fair I have been off and on reading on this particular conflict for going on 20 years. I do not pretend to be a scholar but I do have foundation.
 
2012-11-17 03:53:34 AM

CygnusDarius: If I had the money and resources, I'd:

1.- Use small nuclear weapons on both israel and palestine. Nothing big, but on key places (the Wall of Lamentations would be one, and since it's right next to a mosque, I'd hit two birds in one stone).
2.- do a massive announcement, basically saying "It was me. I am not tied to any both of the countries. I did it alone, with no one else helping me. I am waiting for you"
3.- Watch both countries unite against a common enemy. Peace is made.


The "Dr. Manhattan" Gambit?

Too bad this is actually a proxy war, with Hamas being supplied and controlled by Syria and Iran to keep Israel occupied in Gaza (and perhaps Lebanon, if Hezbollah gets involved), while Syria fights their civil war and Iran keeps on working towards getting The Bomb.
 
2012-11-17 03:55:01 AM

yousaywut: 1948 founding day. there ya go:)


If you note the book titles up there, you'll see dates going into the 1800's. Theres a reason for that, and its a very interesting story.

Theres a geometric curve to learning where, at the beginning, you can put a little bit of work and be able to talk to experts in the field. Then the curve flattens and you start throwing years into gaining just a little more knowledge.

Sometimes, i pick up something new just to have that easy exhilaration.

Grab one of those books. If you are feeling particularly _____, you can find them on the internet, for free. The authors dont get money for their effort, so i can't condone that. Take a week or so, get some heavy-hitting knowledge.
 
2012-11-17 03:57:02 AM

Party Boy: Tellingthem: Thanks always appreciate some good books to read.

Thats your best bet. its your fastest route to ass-kicking foundational knowledge.

I see gelvins work is expensive now.
theres this

One Land, Two Peoples: The Conflict Over Palestine, Second Edition (Dilemmas in World Politics) by Deborah J. Gerner

and a more, ummm, myth breaking work by Benny Morris called Righteous Victims: A History of the Zionist-Arab Conflict, 1881-2001

but I'd put them under the first two. We're looking for totally mainstream, well-regarded, and comprehensive.


thanks again. I'll have to start a list. Can never have to many books heh. i'll keep dabbling in my little theory as well. I doubt i'll come up with anything solid...but if i do i'll let you know. At the very least it keeps me thinking.
 
2012-11-17 03:57:25 AM

yousaywut: My foundation in solid though I admit most likely biased. I do however listen to all perspectives. Just to be fair I have been off and on reading on this particular conflict for going on 20 years. I do not pretend to be a scholar but I do have foundation.


Well, I guess I misinterpreted you when you said you were "too lazy for that much research." Apologies.

We can carry on if you like.
 
2012-11-17 03:58:52 AM

Tellingthem: thanks again. I'll have to start a list. Can never have to many books heh. i'll keep dabbling in my little theory as well. I doubt i'll come up with anything solid...but if i do i'll let you know. At the very least it keeps me thinking.


Please do. Email is in profile. its a wonderful story, and its always topical. Unbelievably topical.
 
2012-11-17 04:01:33 AM

Party Boy: yousaywut: My foundation in solid though I admit most likely biased. I do however listen to all perspectives. Just to be fair I have been off and on reading on this particular conflict for going on 20 years. I do not pretend to be a scholar but I do have foundation.

Well, I guess I misinterpreted you when you said you were "too lazy for that much research." Apologies.

We can carry on if you like.


No worries it's for me just an interesting subject with so many variables that you always learn from an honest discussion. As long as neither side gets too passionate and starts with the death threats which is common.
 
2012-11-17 04:16:39 AM

yousaywut: As long as neither side gets too passionate and starts with the death threats which is common.


Yes it is.
 
2012-11-17 04:45:11 AM

PsiChick: Party Boy: PsiChick: Pretty much what I was saying. :)

Yeah, I'm not really arguing as much as I'm sitting here, wanting a little background.

No antagonism. Hot chocolate.

Hot chocolate is fantastic. Someday I'll figure out how to add peppermint to it without needing to melt candy in...


www.torani.com
 
2012-11-17 05:02:04 AM
Lebensraum is all I take away from this.
 
2012-11-17 05:31:17 AM

sophus_tree: "Those were Israeli warplanes bombing Gaza, but I'm not going to comment on that. I'm not going to let it interrupt this debate."


This kid is a hero...
 
2012-11-17 05:38:26 AM

LasersHurt: sophus_tree: Holy fark. The guy says "You can hear what's happening and I'm not going to comment on that. We need to get past 'Who's the victim and who's the victimizer'--we need to get that out of the way and get on with things."

CNN: "Wait--what was that sound?"

"Those were Israeli warplanes bombing Gaza, but I'm not going to comment on that. I'm not going to let it interrupt this debate."

Wow. Hope I someday have brassies like this guy.

That guys seriously wins a ton of cred. To keep his cool and want to stay on message while getting bombed straight to fark is impressive.

Also, absolutely nobody believes that the Israelis are going to not hurt any civilians. That's ridiculous. I'd go so far as to say they're not intentionally targeting major civilian targets, sure, they're not monsters. But they're bombing the place - they're gonna get civilians.


And certain people are going to defend Israel for using what those same people have been criticizing Obama for using: drone strikes.
 
2012-11-17 05:53:49 AM

IlGreven: LasersHurt: sophus_tree:
And certain people are going to defend Israel for using what those same people have been criticizing Obama for using: drone strikes.


And the reverse will be true, too
 
2012-11-17 06:24:26 AM
Israel destroyed the Gaza Netflix distribution center.
 
2012-11-17 06:44:27 AM

DeltaPunch: bulldg4life: DeltaPunch: As aside, who was that incredibly hot news anchor?!? My god she's gorgeous...

Isha Sesay.

And, yes, she is gorgeous.

Gracias... off to teh googles...


2.bp.blogspot.com?
IT'S LESS LIKELY THAN YOU THINK
 
2012-11-17 06:47:48 AM

MmmmBacon: Too bad this is actually a proxy war


This.
As an oppressed group of people, it would make sense to stockpile some weapons for self defense. But when you're hiding thousands of unguided rockets and lobbing them at random into a city (and at oddly inconvenient times for western interests in the region) you can't expect anything less than a swift and violent response from the other side.

The Palestinians might be desperate for peace, but Hamas and the like aren't working for their interests.
 
2012-11-17 06:54:01 AM
Gazans should move to Beverly Hills.
 
2012-11-17 07:22:40 AM

BalugaJoe: Gazans should move to Beverly Hills.


LOL, and the White House too. They'd be welcomed with open arms in both places.
 
2012-11-17 09:04:35 AM

shotglasss: BalugaJoe: Gazans should move to Beverly Hills.

LOL, and the White House too. They'd be welcomed with open arms in both places.


I think it would be a lot more fun to relocate them to the deep South, and make sure they have funding available to build large, prominent mosques everywhere they settle.
For teh lulz!
 
2012-11-17 10:38:40 AM

LewDux: DeltaPunch: bulldg4life: DeltaPunch: As aside, who was that incredibly hot news anchor?!? My god she's gorgeous...

Isha Sesay.

And, yes, she is gorgeous.

Gracias... off to teh googles...

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 400x288]?
IT'S LESS LIKELY THAN YOU THINK


Really? Have you ever been exposed to the dreaded 'coco-sante'? Trust me it is NOT a myth. 

/but then again my sense of smell is so acute I can smell rattlesnakes
 
2012-11-17 11:21:58 AM
So, the ad that plays before the "actual bombs dropping on folks" video had "Flight of the Valkyries" as a soundtrack. Gotta say, I lol'd.
 
2012-11-17 12:03:29 PM
fark it lets just get world war 3 done and over with
 
2012-11-17 01:22:03 PM

Bonzo_1116: PsiChick: Party Boy: PsiChick:

Peppermint Schnapps.


Gordon Bennett: PsiChick: Party Boy: PsiChick:

[www.torani.com image 350x519]


...I need to run to the store.
 
2012-11-17 02:10:46 PM

PsiChick: Bonzo_1116: PsiChick: Party Boy: PsiChick:

Peppermint Schnapps.

Gordon Bennett: PsiChick: Party Boy: PsiChick:

[www.torani.com image 350x519]

...I need to run to the store.


Yes you do. Torani, Monin and Da Vinci syrups are all quite nice, non alcoholic and made expressly to add flavour to drinks. Many choices including sugar-free variants.
 
2012-11-17 08:30:28 PM
This...hurts.

i.imgur.com
 
2012-11-17 08:44:21 PM
Good thing we did all our Manifest Destiny and mass genocide and subjugation of the native peoples of this country BEFORE they had rockets and shiat. That would be ugly.

/wish they'd just do a proper revolution and get it over with
//You either win, or you lose. Quit blowing up civilians that just want to live their lives without being constantly in terror.
 
2012-11-17 09:31:28 PM
Jew here.
In general, Israel has been pretty shiatty towards Palestinians, what with the lack of representation in Parliament and Netanyahu being an all-around shiathead. But what does Hamas expect Israel to do when they're shooting missiles at their capital? If you want to get people to pay attention to your plight, instigating armed combat and storing your weapons in residential areas (which the Israelis will aim for) is NOT the way to do it. Why can't they be cool and suave like the French Resistance?

Here's the other problem: it's not Israelis' fault. Let me explain.
Israel has mandatory conscription. In any military, they train you to see the enemy as subhuman so you don't feel guilty about shooting at them. Arabs are the enemy, so the IDF teaches its soldiers to see Arabs as subhuman. This is why there is so much racism even among civilians: because most of them had been in the military (not all Israelis qualify for service, or they have a religious exemption). This causes a vicious cycle. Hamas handing out the known fake book Protocols of the Elders of Zion and Mein Kampf isn't really helping, either. Then there's the whole being easily offended by a farking youtube video.
 
2012-11-17 09:43:24 PM

theknuckler_33: Blue_Blazer: theknuckler_33: To farking hell with the both of them. Palestinians sure as shiat target civilians because they fire rockets nilly-willy wherever they go. Israelis are assholes because if 3 Israelis are killed, they kill 1500 Palestinian 'militants'.

fark them both in the ass. Go to war, you are on your own. FOAD and EABOD.

Point of order here: the Palestinian rockets are hardly capable of being aimed. I will not speculate as to whether it would make a difference. Probably not, as neither side seems interested in avoiding civilian casualities.

That was the point, they don't have weapons sophisticated enough to aim precisely at military targets, they just fire off rockets towards the nearest towns/cities. And, frankly, I don't blame them.


I do. My sister goes to university in Tel Aviv. I wouldn't be so shocked if they aim for border patrol vehicles and army bases. Those are soldiers. They're risking their lives for their country. But when you aim specifically for civilians, that's bad.
The IDF was aiming for known weapon stores and known Hamas bases of operation. Hamas intentionally put this in heavily residential areas. If you set up a camp in the middle of a warzone, things like this happen. They call it "no-man's land" for a reason. There's a reason why army bases are typically at least a few miles away from residential settlements.
But I do think that Israel is overreacting. Then again, Hamas said that killing their leader is an "act of war".

The truth is that most Palestinians don't give a shiat about Israeli occupation, justice for the fallen, right of return or any of that. Most of them just want to live their lives in peace. But when even their own countrymen are fighting for leadership (it's basically a People's Front of Judea vs Judean People's Front situation), they'll never have that.

The IRA and ETA's goals are in the right too. That doesn't mean they're not terrorists.
 
2012-11-17 09:53:27 PM
This land is mine. Suck it the rest of humanity.
 
2012-11-18 04:54:08 AM

colithian: so the IDF teaches its soldiers to see Arabs as subhuman.


Israeli reserve soldier here, that is a load of bullcrap.
 
2012-11-18 12:38:48 PM
TappingTheVein
Israeli reserve soldier here, that is a load of bullcrap.

You're an Israeli reserve soldier? In that case, what more evidence does colithian need?
 
2012-11-18 04:54:14 PM

RanDomino: You're an Israeli reserve soldier? In that case, what more evidence does colithian need?


None, i just said that his post is bullcrap. And you should go do some reading about the israeli-palestinian conflict before you utter any more embarrassingly wrong crap.
 
2012-11-18 07:48:49 PM

theknuckler_33: that was forced upon them unilaterally about 70 years ago with virtually no input on their part.


Except that they fought a few wars over it and lost every single one. This is how the world works, like it or not. I could show a similar map to the one posted in these threads, except of America, Russia, or China growing huge by progressively taking over more land from natives.

sleeps in trees: That is the crux. Blatant Mother farking Racism. Call it whatever you want same shiat different pile.


How can you not see the justification for it? All those suicide bombers killing people shopping or eating at cafes, blowing up entire buses, skyjackings galore and you don't see how that forced the hand of the people being attacked. The jews weren't firing rockets at Berlin every night leading up to the holocaust, and the arabs in Palestine have tripled in population instead of being wiped out. I'm not jewish but I can see how Israel is much more civilized and justified in their actions than the arabs.
 
2012-11-19 12:41:07 PM
TappingTheVein
None, i just said that his post is bullcrap. And you should go do some reading about the israeli-palestinian conflict before you utter any more embarrassingly wrong crap.

You just admitted to being an agent of the Israeli state, and you think your assertions carry any weight?
 
2012-11-19 12:57:21 PM

RanDomino: ou just admitted to being an agent of the Israeli state, and you think your assertions carry any weight?


No, i said that i served as an israeli soldier and from personal experience we were never told to see Arabs as subhuman, it was actually the opposite. Choose to believe whatever you want, since you in any case have no farking clue about this conflict as evident over and over again, it doesn't matter.

On the other hand, the other side are taught before they can walk to regard jews as subhuman, spawns of satan or worse. But you'll probably ignore this like you ignore every evidence i present to you which places the muslims/palestinians in a negative light.
 
2012-11-19 02:25:39 PM
It must be those crazy Joowz fault. WTF is wrong with them?

/They need to return the pyramids back to the Palestinians.
//King Osama can fix this. He needs to have some hamas and crackers with Pres Obama, His Holiness Cardinal Abass and Duchess Bibi.
 
2012-11-19 03:24:04 PM
TappingTheVein
places the muslims/palestinians in a negative light.

This is your only real goal here.
 
2012-11-19 03:37:42 PM

RanDomino: This is your only real goal here.


My goal in that post was actually to show how you ignore facts which you apparently don't like and elegantly skip acknowledging ignorant mistakes you tend to make when discussing the israeli-palestinian conflict so i thank you for your assistance.

But hey, if it helps you deal with your ignorance and detached from reality worldview, make up some more shiat about me. Should be entertaining.
 
2012-11-19 04:02:37 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-11-19 05:10:18 PM

Zombalupagus: [i.imgur.com image 700x960]


So i guess you wouldn't mind a couple of thousands of these rockets falling on your house 4 times a day, never mind that they use Grad and Fajr missiles as well.
Also the israelis should step outside their bomb shelters and turn off the alarms and Iron Domes. You know, to even the ratio.
 
2012-11-19 05:24:32 PM

The Great Gazoo: I don't think Israel is intentionally targeting civilians, but I don't think they really give a fark if they kill a few by accident.


Dont forget the Palestinians intentionally launch from areas where their are noncombatants. This either discourages Israel from firing back or if they do retaliate then they have bodies of the dead to show the international press.
 
2012-11-19 11:53:47 PM

pdee: The Great Gazoo: I don't think Israel is intentionally targeting civilians, but I don't think they really give a fark if they kill a few by accident.

Dont forget the Palestinians intentionally launch from areas where their are noncombatants. This either discourages Israel from firing back or if they do retaliate then they have bodies of the dead to show the international press.


Of course using civilians as shields makes you a shiat-bag.. but it doesn't justify going 'oh okay then' and blowing the civilians to pieces now does it? If a criminal holds a kid hostage do the police riddle the pair of them with bullets?
 
2012-11-20 02:53:39 AM

gaspode: If a criminal holds a kid hostage do the police riddle the pair of them with bullets?


No and that's why Israel is making huge efforts to minimize civilian casualties.
 
2012-11-20 04:17:08 AM

TappingTheVein: gaspode: If a criminal holds a kid hostage do the police riddle the pair of them with bullets?

No and that's why Israel is making huge efforts to minimize civilian casualties.


Well if they are that would be a positive thing, but I am going to be frank and say I do not really believe that they are making more than token efforts. Sorry. I genuinely have nothing but disgust for the rocket-makers and violent murderers on the palestinian side, but It is hard to accept that quite so many civilian casualties are the result of an IDF that truly gives a shiat who it kills.
 
2012-11-20 04:22:18 AM

gaspode: Well if they are that would be a positive thing, but I am going to be frank and say I do not really believe that they are making more than token efforts.


Look at the ratio between the number of attacks in the last 6 days and the number of civilian casualties.
 
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