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(CNN) Video Live CNN discussion between an Israeli and a Palestinian. Israeli: They are intentionally targetting civilians, and we do not do that. Palestinian: "Well. I :BOOM:: BOOM: :BOOM: ++++ NO CARRIER +++"   (cnn.com) divider line 275
    More: Video, Israelis, Palestinians, NO CARRIER  
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9195 clicks; posted to Video » on 16 Nov 2012 at 7:13 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-16 10:40:08 PM  

Shedim: Captain Steroid: [i1182.photobucket.com image 640x360]

Where's that from?


The picture is from the ending to Mobile Suit Gundam 00: A Wakening of the Trailblazer. The inserted quote is from Albert Einstein.
 
2012-11-16 10:40:47 PM  

PsiChick: cman: See my above post

About Germany? That...really doesn't change the fact that, in America, it's political.

/If you're saying that America would come because of the Holocaust and not the End Times, well, some, but not the political folks. The political folks tend to overlap more with the End Times folks than the Holocaust ones. Which is ridiculous given that you'd think religious people would be the most horrified at the Holocaust because of the whole 'be nice to people' thing...but yeah, no, there's a lot of Fark links where they outright admit it, albeit in smaller publications.


You must have skipped it



No, what I am biatching about is the left v right portion. The left feels like it has to attack the right. This is ultrapartisanship at its worse.

We have been supporting Israel for a long time. Now that the right has made supporting Israel one of their big things, the left HAS to shiat on them, just like the right has to shiat on the left for all the things that they do.

One of the biggest issues in the 2012 elections was about the middle east. People on the left said shiat like "A vote for Jill Stein is a vote for Mitt Romney and allowing Israel to do whatever the fark they want". Well, guess what? Obama is letting Israel do whatever the fark they want, and you sit here biatching about the right while giving your guy a free pass. Ultrapartisanship, thats what this is
 
2012-11-16 10:46:47 PM  
I know this might sound a bit inappropriate given the severity of the situation, but that CNN reporter is hot and I couldn't help but wonder what her Gaza strip looks like.
 
2012-11-16 10:48:50 PM  

Theory Of Null: I know this might sound a bit inappropriate given the severity of the situation, but that CNN reporter is hot and I couldn't help but wonder what her Gaza strip looks like.


If it mirrors what's unfolding this week, it's probably getting pounded.
 
2012-11-16 10:49:25 PM  

Theory Of Null: I know this might sound a bit inappropriate given the severity of the situation, but that CNN reporter is hot and I couldn't help but wonder what her Gaza strip looks like.


"The Gaza Strip" would be a great name for an Israeli nudie bar that caters Jewish men with a Palestinian fetish.
 
2012-11-16 10:51:33 PM  

thekilt04: so when is Egypt going to light the already burning powder keg?


www.leadpipeposters.com

God I'd hope so.
 
2012-11-16 10:54:54 PM  

skullkrusher: GAT_00: [i575.photobucket.com image 453x604]

it's amazing the justifications people will make for their terrorism but not as amazing as the stupid Westerners who'll propagate those justifications


Israel can do no wrong and the Palestians should just stop. The whole situation is so black and white.
 
2012-11-16 10:59:31 PM  

cman: PsiChick: cman: See my above post

About Germany? That...really doesn't change the fact that, in America, it's political.

/If you're saying that America would come because of the Holocaust and not the End Times, well, some, but not the political folks. The political folks tend to overlap more with the End Times folks than the Holocaust ones. Which is ridiculous given that you'd think religious people would be the most horrified at the Holocaust because of the whole 'be nice to people' thing...but yeah, no, there's a lot of Fark links where they outright admit it, albeit in smaller publications.

You must have skipped it



No, what I am biatching about is the left v right portion. The left feels like it has to attack the right. This is ultrapartisanship at its worse.

We have been supporting Israel for a long time. Now that the right has made supporting Israel one of their big things, the left HAS to shiat on them, just like the right has to shiat on the left for all the things that they do.

One of the biggest issues in the 2012 elections was about the middle east. People on the left said shiat like "A vote for Jill Stein is a vote for Mitt Romney and allowing Israel to do whatever the fark they want". Well, guess what? Obama is letting Israel do whatever the fark they want, and you sit here biatching about the right while giving your guy a free pass. Ultrapartisanship, thats what this is


Ah. Well, then, that makes more sense. I thought you were trying to argue that it wasn't political as a fact, not that it shouldn't be.

That said, though, the left hasn't been going after Israel so much because the right wing supports them as because Israel will do shiat like kill a Hamas official and act surprised when Hamas shoots back. And the phrase 'letting Israel do what it wants' usually means 'writing a blank check and adding military support', which Obama is thankfully not doing. I mean, whether or not he publicly condemns Israel probably matters jack shiat to them at this stage.
 
2012-11-16 10:59:40 PM  

cman: PsiChick: cman: See my above post

About Germany? That...really doesn't change the fact that, in America, it's political.

/If you're saying that America would come because of the Holocaust and not the End Times, well, some, but not the political folks. The political folks tend to overlap more with the End Times folks than the Holocaust ones. Which is ridiculous given that you'd think religious people would be the most horrified at the Holocaust because of the whole 'be nice to people' thing...but yeah, no, there's a lot of Fark links where they outright admit it, albeit in smaller publications.

You must have skipped it



No, what I am biatching about is the left v right portion. The left feels like it has to attack the right. This is ultrapartisanship at its worse.

We have been supporting Israel for a long time. Now that the right has made supporting Israel one of their big things, the left HAS to shiat on them, just like the right has to shiat on the left for all the things that they do.

One of the biggest issues in the 2012 elections was about the middle east. People on the left said shiat like "A vote for Jill Stein is a vote for Mitt Romney and allowing Israel to do whatever the fark they want". Well, guess what? Obama is letting Israel do whatever the fark they want, and you sit here biatching about the right while giving your guy a free pass. Ultrapartisanship, thats what this is


The entire dialogue makes me very uncomfortable. America involves herself in these savage's quarrels at great peril. The middle east is a dark, evil place - it is the seat of most of what is foul and wretched in human history. These superstitious, bloodthirsty desert horney-toads live to murder, rape, and subjugate humanity with their obscene Abrahamic fairy tales, and they have no problem not only slaughtering each other wholesale, but taking the rest of humanity to Hell with them if we are foolish enough to get involved. We need to seal the area off, give them all as many of the deadliest weapons we can spare, and let them sterilize the gene pool of themselves. and we'd better do it soon.
 
2012-11-16 11:08:29 PM  

The Great Gazoo: I don't think Israel is intentionally targeting civilians, but I don't think they really give a fark if they kill a few by accident.


Yep...They are targeting know assholes, but aren't crying much if they hit a few innocents in the process.
Sad all around.
 
2012-11-16 11:12:25 PM  

GAT_00: [i575.photobucket.com image 453x604]


FTFpicture:
YOU
Burn my olive trees


You know, I wonder how much of this is 2500 year-old anger about Greeks in the region...
 
2012-11-16 11:17:03 PM  

Kanemano: [d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net image 480x397]


Either of those folks would be welcome in California, especialy if they could provide me with a good falafel.

I'd kill for good falafel, haven't had any in years.
 
2012-11-16 11:19:32 PM  

theknuckler_33: 2xhelix: Just go back to pre-1967 borders and end the BS already. This has gone on way too long.
[i.imgur.com image 850x609]

That will make exactly ZERO difference.


Two State solution or One State solution, they need to pick it and stick with it.
 
2012-11-16 11:20:26 PM  
Unfortunately, the civilians targeted by Israel weren't so lucky
 
2012-11-16 11:22:26 PM  

PsiChick: cman: THIS IS NOT AN AMERICAN ISSUE

Stop it

Stop politicizing this crap

This is NOT a left/right issue

Stop making it one

Welp, today I'm in a mood for calling people out, so...um, bullsh*t. The right has spent at least ten years (how long I've had any knowledge of politics personally) saying exactly one thing about Israel: Palestine is the aggressor and the Gaza Strip belongs to Israel, ISRAEL MUST WIN AT ALL COSTS! And they're saying that because, as evangelicals, they believe the only way to bring about the Second Coming is for Jerusalem to be destroyed. So they want a war. They want a violent, chaotic war.

I'm actually kind of sorry if you didn't already know this, but this is what the right has been saying and is saying today. That's why everyone claims Obama is anti-Israel, and why Bush was seen as 'pro'-Israel. It's a relationship intended to destroy Israel because they think that's what Christ wants.

Can't get much more political or religious than that.


Really I mean really really you believe this? Yeah far right extremist arse holes in the evangelical community can go somewhere into this neighborhood of retarded but most normal people don't believe this. Please look farther back than 10 years this area has seen nothing but strife since back when the Israelites wiped out the Caananites or some shiat like that.

/The U.S. started helping modern Israel after they had already fought and won 2 major wars for survival and then mostly due to generational guild for having denied asylum to the European Jewish population during the holocaust.

//Bad shiat happened and bad shiat will continue to happen unless somewhere somehow someone stops pointing the finger and starts talking to the other side.

/It's a dream I'm entitled just like everyone:)
 
2012-11-16 11:29:55 PM  

2xhelix: Just go back to pre-1967 borders and end the BS already. This has gone on way too long.
[i.imgur.com image 850x609]


Too logical. Does not compute.
 
2012-11-16 11:40:53 PM  

Summoner101: clambam: GAT_00: [i575.photobucket.com image 453x604]

Damn, what a shiatty life you have. Have you considered emigrating to one of those other 20 countries where people have exactly the same religion and speak exactly the same language you do, and have one million square miles of mostly empty territory in which to resettle you? No? How about that country right next door, Jordan, which is already 60% Palestinian Arab and which was actually your homeland until 1967? No? The only place you'll accept is the 6,000 square miles of territory in Israel, the one your grandparents emigrated to in the 1920's specifically to keep Jews out? I understand perfectly, you poor thing. Those five million mean ol' Jews are mistreating all 300 million of you innocent Arabs. You poor, poor losers.

Have you ever considered making a damn lick of sense?


QFT.
 
2012-11-17 12:03:54 AM  

mainsail: Summoner101: clambam: GAT_00: [i575.photobucket.com image 453x604]

Damn, what a shiatty life you have. Have you considered emigrating to one of those other 20 countries where people have exactly the same religion and speak exactly the same language you do, and have one million square miles of mostly empty territory in which to resettle you? No? How about that country right next door, Jordan, which is already 60% Palestinian Arab and which was actually your homeland until 1967? No? The only place you'll accept is the 6,000 square miles of territory in Israel, the one your grandparents emigrated to in the 1920's specifically to keep Jews out? I understand perfectly, you poor thing. Those five million mean ol' Jews are mistreating all 300 million of you innocent Arabs. You poor, poor losers.

Have you ever considered making a damn lick of sense?

QFT.


If North Korea invaded the United States because the U.N. gave it to them, would you go quietly "one of those other 20 countries where people have exactly the same religion and speak exactly the same language you do"?
 
2012-11-17 12:12:34 AM  

yousaywut: Really I mean really really you believe this? Yeah far right extremist arse holes in the evangelical community can go somewhere into this neighborhood of retarded but most normal people don't believe this. Please look farther back than 10 years this area has seen nothing but strife since back when the Israelites wiped out the Caananites or some shiat like that.

/The U.S. started helping modern Israel after they had already fought and won 2 major wars for survival and then mostly due to generational guild for having denied asylum to the European Jewish population during the holocaust.

//Bad shiat happened and bad shiat will continue to happen unless somewhere somehow someone stops pointing the finger and starts talking to the other side.

/It's a dream I'm entitled just like everyone:)


Yeah...I wasn't talking about normal people, I was talking about the right wing (not moderates), who are, nowadays, insane. There are many people, as I told cman, who do support Israel because of the Holocaust. That's understandable, but that's not evangelicals.

Since you don't have TotalFark, I'm not sure how well you can see archived links, so here's a few choice quotes on Israel from fundies--the top two probably are enough, here's the Republican Party slamming the Democratic Platform for not wanting to hand Jerusalem to Israel exclusively, a policy which, if enacted, would cause a major war, (also listed on AP, I'm just using a lazy link) and here's a viewpoint I've found to be fairly common among evangelicals about Israel's ultimate role in the end times. Yes, it's hard to say that, normally, the Republican party or right wing would support a backhanded relationship with Israel, but the Republican party actively uses religion to make its platform and policy. Remember that panel of religious clergy debating on birth control for women? Those people are more moderate than the ones I'm talking about.

/The right wing, in all fairness, uses the Holocaust to justify a lot. They don't usually talk about the End Times bit publicly. But that doesn't mean they don't imply it pretty heavily, or advocate positions that are illogical unless you want to start a war.
 
2012-11-17 12:19:08 AM  
War is dumb.
 
2012-11-17 12:38:08 AM  

theknuckler_33: Blue_Blazer: theknuckler_33: To farking hell with the both of them. Palestinians sure as shiat target civilians because they fire rockets nilly-willy wherever they go. Israelis are assholes because if 3 Israelis are killed, they kill 1500 Palestinian 'militants'.

fark them both in the ass. Go to war, you are on your own. FOAD and EABOD.

Point of order here: the Palestinian rockets are hardly capable of being aimed. I will not speculate as to whether it would make a difference. Probably not, as neither side seems interested in avoiding civilian casualities.

That was the point, they don't have weapons sophisticated enough to aim precisely at military targets, they just fire off rockets towards the nearest towns/cities. And, frankly, I don't blame them.


I don't always side with Israel, but in this case I do. If in fact Hamas thought for one moment that the re-election of President Obama would somehow strengthen their position while they lob Iranian rockets into Jerusalem, these people played the wrong hand. Hamas tried that four years ago and it did not work and will not work again. Now the prospects for a peaceful solution are set back years.
 
2012-11-17 12:39:13 AM  

yousaywut: //Bad shiat happened and bad shiat will continue to happen unless somewhere somehow someone stops pointing the finger and starts talking to the other side.


the only who gives a shiat about this place are the psychos on the left and the right. the fark liberals, and the evangelicals. the scum of the earth basically. get the f*ck out of all of it, let it burn.
 
2012-11-17 01:01:48 AM  
Huh they showed this happen on the American CNN but left out the whole mid-live debate thing, they just showed his skype feed.
 
2012-11-17 01:03:46 AM  

PsiChick: Since you don't have TotalFark, I'm not sure how well you can see archived links, so here's a few choice quotes on Israel from fundies--the top two probably are enough, here's the Republican Party slamming the Democratic Platform for not wanting to hand Jerusalem to Israel exclusively, a policy which, if enacted, would cause a major war, (also listed on AP, I'm just using a lazy link) and here's a viewpoint I've found to be fairly common among evangelicals about Israel's ultimate role in the end times. Yes, it's hard to say that, normally, the Republican party or right wing would support a backhanded relationship with Israel, but the Republican party actively uses religion to make its platform and policy. Remember that panel of religious clergy debating on birth control for women? Those people are more moderate than the ones I'm talking about.


Show us actual US politicians voicing support for Israel in order to bring about armageddon. Cite reputable journalistic sources, or their own platforms.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

I'm not arguing for or against US intervention in this affair, but it's pretty clear that you've let some warped ideas get into your head. There are far more rational reasons why US politicians would like to see an Israeli conflict (like our weapons and private military industries). I'm not trying to say that no one has ever taken the point of view you're talking about, but they're the far and away exception. The vast majority of these people don't even mention religion when talking about US policy on Israel, much less advocating based off of biblical prophesy.
 
2012-11-17 01:08:04 AM  

cman: Party Boy: New news

Israeli peace activist: Hamas leader Jabari killed amid talks on long-term truce
Hours before Hamas strongman Ahmed Jabari was assassinated, he received the draft of a permanent truce agreement with Israel, which included mechanisms for maintaining the cease-fire in the case of a flare-up between Israel and the factions in the Gaza Strip. This, according to Israeli peace activist Gershon Baskin, who helped mediate between Israel and Hamas in the deal to release Gilad Shalit and has since then maintained a relationship with Hamas leaders.

Baskin told Haaretz on Thursday that senior officials in Israel knew about his contacts with Hamas and Egyptian intelligence aimed at formulating the permanent truce, but nevertheless approved the assassination.

"I think that they have made a strategic mistake," Baskin said, an error "which will cost the lives of quite a number of innocent people on both sides."

How long are Hamas/Israeli truces good for again? 2 weeks? Isnt that the average before someone does something?


That would have been two more weeks then.
 
2012-11-17 01:08:04 AM  

Fubini: Show us actual US politicians voicing support for Israel in order to bring about armageddon. Cite reputable journalistic sources, or their own platforms.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

I'm not arguing for or against US intervention in this affair, but it's pretty clear that you've let some warped ideas get into your head. There are far more rational reasons why US politicians would like to see an Israeli conflict


Can you do the same? Cite reputable journalistic sources, or their own platforms?
 
2012-11-17 01:13:40 AM  

Fubini: PsiChick: Since you don't have TotalFark, I'm not sure how well you can see archived links, so here's a few choice quotes on Israel from fundies--the top two probably are enough, here's the Republican Party slamming the Democratic Platform for not wanting to hand Jerusalem to Israel exclusively, a policy which, if enacted, would cause a major war, (also listed on AP, I'm just using a lazy link) and here's a viewpoint I've found to be fairly common among evangelicals about Israel's ultimate role in the end times. Yes, it's hard to say that, normally, the Republican party or right wing would support a backhanded relationship with Israel, but the Republican party actively uses religion to make its platform and policy. Remember that panel of religious clergy debating on birth control for women? Those people are more moderate than the ones I'm talking about.

Show us actual US politicians voicing support for Israel in order to bring about armageddon. Cite reputable journalistic sources, or their own platforms.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

I'm not arguing for or against US intervention in this affair, but it's pretty clear that you've let some warped ideas get into your head. There are far more rational reasons why US politicians would like to see an Israeli conflict (like our weapons and private military industries). I'm not trying to say that no one has ever taken the point of view you're talking about, but they're the far and away exception. The vast majority of these people don't even mention religion when talking about US policy on Israel, much less advocating based off of biblical prophesy.


Um, the entire Republican party advocating a platform that would piss off the entirety of Islam and thus start a shiatstorm in the Middle East wasn't enough for you? I'm not saying that reasonable people do it; I'm saying unreasonable people do it.

And do you mind citing any other reasons the party of religion would support an Israeli conflict, keeping in mind that 'to gain power' is unlikely after Bush's huge unpopularity?
 
2012-11-17 01:16:32 AM  

cman: One of the biggest issues in the 2012 elections was about the middle east. People on the left said shiat like "A vote for Jill Stein is a vote for Mitt Romney and allowing Israel to do whatever the fark they want". Well, guess what? Obama is letting Israel do whatever the fark they want, and you sit here biatching about the right while giving your guy a free pass. Ultrapartisanship, thats what this is


From what I understand (and this is coming from a lib, so take it with a grain of salt), was that America is going to let Israel do whatever they want regardless of the president. Mitt, however, seemed (at least to me) to be more willing to help with a ground war by sending troops in.

/I could be entirely wrong about this; it's just what I remember feeling.
//My vote wasn't based on what we do with Israel, but a host of other issues.
///I'm not well versed in Israel
////Slashies!
 
2012-11-17 01:17:43 AM  

Party Boy: Fubini: Show us actual US politicians voicing support for Israel in order to bring about armageddon. Cite reputable journalistic sources, or their own platforms.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

I'm not arguing for or against US intervention in this affair, but it's pretty clear that you've let some warped ideas get into your head. There are far more rational reasons why US politicians would like to see an Israeli conflict

Can you do the same? Cite reputable journalistic sources, or their own platforms?


wtf are you talking about.
you don't even get how this works?
he's not claiming anything. he's asking her to back up her belief that "the right" is advancing a policy to bring on the end times. jesus, I can;t beleive how dumb some fo you folks are...
 
2012-11-17 01:18:40 AM  

PsiChick: yousaywut: Really I mean really really you believe this? Yeah far right extremist arse holes in the evangelical community can go somewhere into this neighborhood of retarded but most normal people don't believe this. Please look farther back than 10 years this area has seen nothing but strife since back when the Israelites wiped out the Caananites or some shiat like that.

/The U.S. started helping modern Israel after they had already fought and won 2 major wars for survival and then mostly due to generational guild for having denied asylum to the European Jewish population during the holocaust.

//Bad shiat happened and bad shiat will continue to happen unless somewhere somehow someone stops pointing the finger and starts talking to the other side.

/It's a dream I'm entitled just like everyone:)

Yeah...I wasn't talking about normal people, I was talking about the right wing (not moderates), who are, nowadays, insane. There are many people, as I told cman, who do support Israel because of the Holocaust. That's understandable, but that's not evangelicals.

Since you don't have TotalFark, I'm not sure how well you can see archived links, so here's a few choice quotes on Israel from fundies--the top two probably are enough, here's the Republican Party slamming the Democratic Platform for not wanting to hand Jerusalem to Israel exclusively, a policy which, if enacted, would cause a major war, (also listed on AP, I'm just using a lazy link) and here's a viewpoint I've found to be fairly common among evangelicals about Israel's ultimate role in the end times. Yes, it's hard to say that, normally, the Republican party or right wing would support a backhanded relationship with Israel, but the Republican party actively uses religion to make its platform and policy. Remember that panel of religious clergy debating on birth control for women? Those people are more moderate than the ones I'm talking about.

/The right wing, in all fairness, uses the Holocaust to justify a lo ...


Right so that was insane reading. There are I am sure you are aware crazies on both sides of the political spectrum. Apparently the right has taken over the apocalypse version while the left holds the natural earth shaking us off version. There are always going to be people who take things too far (Jim Jones, The crazy comet people from Cali who's name I have forgotten, The Quakers, people like that on the right, The left version would be the Eco terrorists (name a group), Extreme atheists who truly believe faith is a mental condition, and those who believe there are just too many people on earth to sustain with the limited resources available, and other such groups). These are the fringes of society and should be shunned. That is the problem with todays instant information the fringes are having a much louder voice than they had at any other time in history. What is truly frightening is not that they exist but that the mainstream people are actually attaching these beliefs some sort of legitimacy by attaching them to the opposing ideology's team.

The moderate left in America is actually fairly conservative but you don't have to look too far to see the crazy from that side either. Jill Stein who's every answer in her debate ended with save the tree's for an example. you are correct there are those who would push toward war to begin Armageddon if they had the power to do so. For now those types are usually weeded out in low levels of power (which is good). What they don't realize or can't accept is that if what they believe is true actually is true then there is absolutely nothing that anyone from either side can do to either hurry it along or prevent it. (It being the end of the world). Of course this is the internet so crazy tends to come out and play quite a bit but there ya go.

As for Israel it is my position that America should continue its defense of Israel simply because of the promises made by us. This does not mean defend Israel from words nor does it mean never pointing out the issues as we see them. It does however mean that we should come to their aid if attacked by any foreign state. The Palestinians are currently not a state but that issue is completely farked and I can't see a good viable solution. (I guess I am not a political genius or something)

//My advise is to not let the crazy dictate policy nor attribute to an entire group the beliefs of the fringe.

/Ok feel free to jump all over this post because you see some belief of mine that I didn't actually ascribe to.
 
2012-11-17 01:20:59 AM  

Party Boy: Fubini: Show us actual US politicians voicing support for Israel in order to bring about armageddon. Cite reputable journalistic sources, or their own platforms.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

I'm not arguing for or against US intervention in this affair, but it's pretty clear that you've let some warped ideas get into your head. There are far more rational reasons why US politicians would like to see an Israeli conflict

Can you do the same? Cite reputable journalistic sources, or their own platforms?


Here's the top hit on google.

Of course religion and politics are funny things. John King supported a terrorist organization but he loudly denounces terrorism. To say, to say, "I wanna bring about the kingdom of heaven as the bible foretold" is to have evangelicals donate their life savings to see you elected. To say, ""I wanna blow up the world in accordance with biblical prophecy," is to say the same damn thing but have everyone INCLUDING the evangelicals run the fark away. But to Fubini we're supposed to pretend that politicians don't know how to speak politically.
 
2012-11-17 01:22:43 AM  

PsiChick: And do you mind citing any other reasons the party of religion would support an Israeli conflict, keeping in mind that 'to gain power' is unlikely after Bush's huge unpopularity?


Bush, Rove, etc. are often criticized using Evangelicals as eager pawns. "National Christian leaders received hugs and smiles in person and then were dismissed behind their backs and described as 'ridiculous,' 'out of control,' and just plain 'goofy,'"
 
2012-11-17 01:24:21 AM  

PsiChick: Um, the entire Republican party advocating a platform that would piss off the entirety of Islam and thus start a shiatstorm in the Middle East wasn't enough for you? I'm not saying that reasonable people do it; I'm saying unreasonable people do it.

what are you talking about. a platform that will piss off 1 billion people and start a region wide conflict? etf are you talking about? when the republicans held the entire congress and the rpesidency back in 2006 where was tehis new world war you claim they could have and should have brought about?
you are consitently the least informed but vocal person here. how old are you?

 
2012-11-17 01:25:16 AM  

relcec: yousaywut: //Bad shiat happened and bad shiat will continue to happen unless somewhere somehow someone stops pointing the finger and starts talking to the other side.

the only who gives a shiat about this place are the psychos on the left and the right. the fark liberals, and the evangelicals. the scum of the earth basically. get the f*ck out of all of it, let it burn.


No, I am not a Fark liberal nor am I evangelical and I give a shiat about this place for several reasons. Not the least of which is its historic value. Israel (Jerusalem in particular in my mind) is an incredible rich place in terms of history and religious iconography. Not many places on this planet are the focus of 3 major religions that I am aware of. So no don't let it burn.

//that is all don't let it burn.
 
2012-11-17 01:26:09 AM  

TheBigJerk: Party Boy: Fubini: Show us actual US politicians voicing support for Israel in order to bring about armageddon. Cite reputable journalistic sources, or their own platforms.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

I'm not arguing for or against US intervention in this affair, but it's pretty clear that you've let some warped ideas get into your head. There are far more rational reasons why US politicians would like to see an Israeli conflict

Can you do the same? Cite reputable journalistic sources, or their own platforms?

Here's the top hit on google.

Of course religion and politics are funny things. John King supported a terrorist organization but he loudly denounces terrorism. To say, to say, "I wanna bring about the kingdom of heaven as the bible foretold" is to have evangelicals donate their life savings to see you elected. To say, ""I wanna blow up the world in accordance with biblical prophecy," is to say the same damn thing but have everyone INCLUDING the evangelicals run the fark away. But to Fubini we're supposed to pretend that politicians don't know how to speak politically.


I would like to do a little better than beliefnet, if its not too much to ask.

Evangelicals are a terrible lobbying group.
 
2012-11-17 01:29:01 AM  
this is what I'm talking about.
psichick is obsessed by the region, but doesn't have a clue what the hell goes on there or even what the political positions of the various u.s. parties are. she has feelings about it though, and isn't afraid to let you know about them.
these are the white people that form the base of the modern democratic party. clueless but confident in they have all the answers even though the depth of their education is the dailykos website.
let's just get the f*ck out of the entire rest of the world.
 
2012-11-17 01:31:54 AM  

Party Boy: PsiChick: And do you mind citing any other reasons the party of religion would support an Israeli conflict, keeping in mind that 'to gain power' is unlikely after Bush's huge unpopularity?

Bush, Rove, etc. are often criticized using Evangelicals as eager pawns. "National Christian leaders received hugs and smiles in person and then were dismissed behind their backs and described as 'ridiculous,' 'out of control,' and just plain 'goofy,'"


Yeah, but they aren't starting an outright war over it. Actually using military action from the Republican side in the Middle East...that's going to be one hell of a sell, so it's an unlikely thing to do. Using their own as pawns? Or even advocating Israel do something stupid? Yup, that won't hit triggers--but an outright, formally-declared war will.

yousaywut: //My advise is to not let the crazy dictate policy nor attribute to an entire group the beliefs of the fringe.

/Ok feel free to jump all over this post because you see some belief of mine that I didn't actually ascribe to.


...Not sure what you're saying here beyond 'both sides are bad so this didn't happen'. Did you read the link I posted where the Republican party, who are more moderate than the folks I was talking about, condemned Democrats for not advocating a position that, if it ever came to pass, would lead to devastating warfare? That's kind of a big clue there.


/I'm not supporting or condemning Israel in any of this, btw. I'm criticizing America's interactions with Israel, or at least the right-wing interactions. The 'ZOMG HOLOCAUST I MUST GIVE YOU MONEY EVEN IF YOU'RE THE AGRESSOR' bit...well, that's another conversation and I'm not going there.
 
2012-11-17 01:33:19 AM  

yousaywut: No, I am not a Fark liberal nor am I evangelical and I give a shiat about this place for several reasons


well your just not very smart then. it hasn't seen peace since the ottoman empire (which itself had zero redeeming qualities) was picked apart and won't until long after our grandkids are dead. and people like you obsessing over a place because something happened there a couple millennia ago is why it's a f*cking mess in the first place.
 
2012-11-17 01:36:28 AM  

Party Boy: would like to do a little better than beliefnet


The book excerpt isnt that bad, though it doesnt seem to answer the question.
During the early 1980s the Israeli Ministry of Tourism recruited evangelical religious leaders for free "familiarization" tours. In time, hundreds of evangelical pastors got free trips to the Holy Land. The purpose of such promotional tours was to enable people of even limited influence to experience Israel for themselves and be shown how they might bring their own tour group to Israel. The Ministry of Tourism was interested in more than tourist dollars: here was a way of building a solid corps of non-Jewish supporters for Israel in the United States by bringing large numbers of evangelicals to hear and see Israel's story for themselves. The strategy caught on.

Getting American evangelicals to travel to Israel was only half of the Israeli strategy. The other half was to create a politically-engaged, pro-Israel force among conservative American Christians in the United States. Shortly after the Six-Day War, elements within the Israeli government saw the potential power of the evangelical subculture and began to mobilize it as a base of support that could influence American foreign policy. The Israeli government sent Yona Malachy of its Department of Religious Affairs to the United States to study American fundamentalism and its potential as an ally of Israel. Malachy was warmly received by fundamentalists and was able to influence some of them to issue strong pro-Israeli manifestos. By the mid-1980s, there was a discernible shift in the Israeli political strategy. The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), the Jewish state's major lobbying group in Washington, D.C., started re-aligning itself with the American political right-wing, including Christian conservatives. Israel's timing was perfect. It began working seriously with American dispensationalists at the precise moment that American fundamentalists and evangelicals were discovering their political voice.

American dispensationalists liked the attention and were willing to organize their constituents to support Israel in a variety of ways. One of the first groups of this kind was the National Leadership Conference for Israel, founded by Pentecostal preacher David Lewis. It supports Israel by scheduling conferences, organizing letter-writing campaigns, placing advertisements in newspapers and putting on large public rallies. Another group is Christians for Israel, whose main purpose is to help Jews from the former Soviet Union immigrate to Israel. Its "exodus" program claims to assist 1,200 Jews per month.

Probably the largest pro-Israel organization of its kind is the National Unity Coalition for Israel, which was founded by a Jewish woman who learned how to get dispensationalist support. NUCI opposes "the establishment of a Palestinian state within the borders of Israel." The organization distributes an array of newsletters and "chutzpah action alerts" to keep its members informed and involved and claims that it can mount a "virtual March on the White House" at a moment's notice if necessary.
I don't see how this book excerpt covers the larger issue on why US politicians do what they do.
 
2012-11-17 01:36:39 AM  

PsiChick:

Yeah, but they aren't starting an outright war over it. Actually using military action from the Republican side in the Middle East...that's going to be one hell of a sell, so it's an unlikely thing to do. Using their own as pawns? Or even advocating Israel do something stupid? Yup, that won't hit triggers--but an outright, formally-declared war will.



this i9s what democrats actually believe. I have no idea what it means to be honest, but you can feel the batshiat cat lady vibes flowing through the coaxial cable.
 
2012-11-17 01:40:52 AM  

PsiChick: Yeah, but they aren't starting an outright war over it. Actually using military action from the Republican side in the Middle East...that's going to be one hell of a sell, so it's an unlikely thing to do. Using their own as pawns? Or even advocating Israel do something stupid? Yup, that won't hit triggers--but an outright, formally-declared war will.


Probably the biggest (and at least a major) reason that a formally declared war is a hard sell is that there was just a formally declared war that turned out to be a big problem.

This was pushed by a very easily defined group of people.
 
2012-11-17 01:41:55 AM  

PsiChick: ...Not sure what you're saying here beyond 'both sides are bad so this didn't happen'. Did you read the link I posted where the Republican party, who are more moderate than the folks I was talking about, condemned Democrats for not advocating a position that, if it ever came to pass, would lead to devastating warfare? That's kind of a big clue there.


/I'm not supporting or condemning Israel in any of this, btw. I'm criticizing America's interactions with Israel, or at least the right-wing interactions. The 'ZOMG HOLOCAUST I MUST GIVE YOU MONEY EVEN IF YOU'RE THE AGRESSOR' bit...well, that's another conversation and I'm not going there.



No I am saying the fringes are nuts. Also condemning the Democratic Party for either holding or not holding any position on any subject that's kind of what politicians do so I don't really put much stock in that. Mostly because there is too much of the extending of the other side's position to the point of absurdity.

//Most democrats I know don't want to go all communist or socialist they just want people to have a fair shot as surviving life's unexpected curves. I see nothing wrong with this position but if you talk to a Republican partisan this position doesn't exist.

As an alternate example to your statement that the Republicans want a war with 1billion people. That isn't accurate either.
 
2012-11-17 01:44:35 AM  

relcec: yousaywut: No, I am not a Fark liberal nor am I evangelical and I give a shiat about this place for several reasons

well your just not very smart then. it hasn't seen peace since the ottoman empire (which itself had zero redeeming qualities) was picked apart and won't until long after our grandkids are dead. and people like you obsessing over a place because something happened there a couple millennia ago is why it's a f*cking mess in the first place.


The area had peace before the Ottoman empire? Peace is relative because I am fairly sure that the threat of death keeps a lot of people peaceful but it doesn't make for easy living.

Also I am fair to midlin intelligent at least according to the tests I had to take so there is that.
 
2012-11-17 01:45:01 AM  

relcec: PsiChick:

Yeah, but they aren't starting an outright war over it. Actually using military action from the Republican side in the Middle East...that's going to be one hell of a sell, so it's an unlikely thing to do. Using their own as pawns? Or even advocating Israel do something stupid? Yup, that won't hit triggers--but an outright, formally-declared war will.


this i9s what democrats actually believe. I have no idea what it means to be honest, but you can feel the batshiat cat lady vibes flowing through the coaxial cable.


And you know what I don't do? Walk into a thread and slam someone without being bothered to so much as quote them so they know I'm talking shiat about them. Especially when I'm trying to claim an actual, stated position of a political party noted by the farking AP is a 'feeling' and the other person's 'depth of education is from the DailyKos website'.

/Although, in all fairness to you, you seem to be allergic to using proper capitalization, so maybe you meant to quote me but just can't write.
 
2012-11-17 01:50:25 AM  
You know the more i read about this the more i think that both Hamas and Israel have made a tactical error here. I think that Hamas just wanted a little dust-up like they have had before and misjudged how Israel would respond. It also seems like Israel misread hamas intentions and hit back a lot harder than hamas figured they would.  Which triggered a much larger response from Hamas and other groups. And now it just keeps escalating on itself.
 
2012-11-17 01:54:10 AM  

Party Boy: PsiChick: Yeah, but they aren't starting an outright war over it. Actually using military action from the Republican side in the Middle East...that's going to be one hell of a sell, so it's an unlikely thing to do. Using their own as pawns? Or even advocating Israel do something stupid? Yup, that won't hit triggers--but an outright, formally-declared war will.

Probably the biggest (and at least a major) reason that a formally declared war is a hard sell is that there was just a formally declared war that turned out to be a big problem.

This was pushed by a very easily defined group of people.


Pretty much what I was saying. :)

yousaywut: PsiChick: ...Not sure what you're saying here beyond 'both sides are bad so this didn't happen'. Did you read the link I posted where the Republican party, who are more moderate than the folks I was talking about, condemned Democrats for not advocating a position that, if it ever came to pass, would lead to devastating warfare? That's kind of a big clue there.


/I'm not supporting or condemning Israel in any of this, btw. I'm criticizing America's interactions with Israel, or at least the right-wing interactions. The 'ZOMG HOLOCAUST I MUST GIVE YOU MONEY EVEN IF YOU'RE THE AGRESSOR' bit...well, that's another conversation and I'm not going there.


No I am saying the fringes are nuts. Also condemning the Democratic Party for either holding or not holding any position on any subject that's kind of what politicians do so I don't really put much stock in that. Mostly because there is too much of the extending of the other side's position to the point of absurdity.

//Most democrats I know don't want to go all communist or socialist they just want people to have a fair shot as surviving life's unexpected curves. I see nothing wrong with this position but if you talk to a Republican partisan this position doesn't exist.

As an alternate example to your statement that the Republicans want a war with 1billion people. That isn't accurate either.


Ah. Well, no, the Republicans have been championing this one for a while, it's a long-standing point with them. I'm not sure how that equates to wanting a war with a billion people--they just want to go do cool stuff, I think.

I agree the fringes are crazy, though. They're just influential crazy, which is why I bring them up. :)
 
2012-11-17 01:54:18 AM  

Tellingthem: You know the more i read about this the more i think that both Hamas and Israel have made a tactical error here. I think that Hamas just wanted a little dust-up like they have had before and misjudged how Israel would respond. It also seems like Israel misread hamas intentions and hit back a lot harder than hamas figured they would.  Which triggered a much larger response from Hamas and other groups. And now it just keeps escalating on itself.


Is this a repeat from the past 30 years or so?
 
2012-11-17 01:56:41 AM  

Tellingthem: You know the more i read about this the more i think that both Hamas and Israel have made a tactical error here. I think that Hamas just wanted a little dust-up like they have had before and misjudged how Israel would respond. It also seems like Israel misread hamas intentions and hit back a lot harder than hamas figured they would.  Which triggered a much larger response from Hamas and other groups. And now it just keeps escalating on itself.


I'm having a real difficult time finding a clear "start."

i.imgur.com

Its like trying to pick out one break where this turns from white to black.
If you are able to do that, please fill me in.
 
2012-11-17 01:58:31 AM  

PsiChick: Pretty much what I was saying. :)


Yeah, I'm not really arguing as much as I'm sitting here, wanting a little background.

No antagonism. Hot chocolate.
 
2012-11-17 02:00:36 AM  

yousaywut: Tellingthem: You know the more i read about this the more i think that both Hamas and Israel have made a tactical error here. I think that Hamas just wanted a little dust-up like they have had before and misjudged how Israel would respond. It also seems like Israel misread hamas intentions and hit back a lot harder than hamas figured they would.  Which triggered a much larger response from Hamas and other groups. And now it just keeps escalating on itself.

Is this a repeat from the past 30 years or so?


Kind of i guess. It just seems like there has been a slow progression towards some stability over the last couple of years. And for everything to suddenly explode like this and in this dramatic of a fashion. It just seems more odd than the usual spats they have.

\or maybe i'm just reading to much and it's just one of those things you can't explain
 
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