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(Think Progress)   Hostess: Damn those union thugs for making us go bankrupt. It had to be the unions and not at all us giving our CEO a giant-as-fark raise when we had no money. Yep, that's gotta be it   (thinkprogress.org ) divider line
    More: Asinine, CEO, Hostess Brands, bankruptcy  
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4613 clicks; posted to Business » on 16 Nov 2012 at 7:26 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-18 02:44:57 AM  

FormlessOne: The link is utter bullshiat, but we know that already given its source.


CNN?

Why don't you try reading it? Is reading difficult for you?
 
2012-11-18 04:00:32 AM  
I wanna see all these Randian freaks tell us what they get paid per hour.
 
2012-11-18 10:20:25 AM  

lizyrd: The "X% funded" number isn't as straight forward as it seems. When a fund is 100% funded it means that if everyone eligible for a pension started collecting today, there would be enough money for all of them. That will never happen, since it would require all people vested in the pension but not at retirement age to retire on disability simultaniously.

A 75% funded pension might be a little low, but not outrageously so. 100% means that the fund can absorb the absolute maximum possible draw while still fully meeting obligations. Which, short of an entire workforce getting maimed at the same time, simply won't happen.


I agree that 75% isn't a hugely worrying number, but in the early days of the union in this area (late 80s and early 90s) it was pathetically easy to get into and dues were only $5 so there's a huge amount of people waiting to retire. They are playing catchup now, but I still wouldn't bet on the pension fund not getting looted at some point in the future.
 
2012-11-18 10:22:28 AM  

Znuh: Don't be so bloody idiotic.


Don't be an armchair class warrior pointing at instances from 100 years ago to prove your point. Ok, we get it you read Wikipedia.
 
2012-11-18 11:30:36 AM  

aspAddict: So yeah, in my experience - unions are counter-productive as all get out. Fark em.

/CSB


I'd be much more pro-union if such stories weren't commonplace.
 
2012-11-18 12:01:40 PM  

WhyKnot: It really isn't uncommon to increase the compensation of an executive during a bankruptcy. It might not make sense, but if you want to retain the executive (or bring someone in), you need to pay them. Additionally, the executive may have lost options and other equity comps.


Well, they didn't pay the workers enough to retain them, so they're done.

veive: oh for fark's sake!

Cost of a pension is around 46%Link and average CEO pay is 10 million Link.

Average CEO pay would work out to $833.34(rounded up!) per year per employee for the 12,000 employees. This guy was making like 10% of average.
Average pension cost would be $11481.60 per year per employee assuming the employees work full time and only make $12 per hour.
Since they were union employees they likely made substantially more so the cost of the pension would likely be higher, but I'm going with a known wage for a factory worker.(He works at the Russell Stover plant in Corsicana, TX which has to managed not go bankrupt.)

Thus a conservative estimate of the pension cost is $11481.60 per employee times 12,000 employees for a total of $137,779,200.00 per year.

Now, I know a lot changes with science every year, so a lot of what I was taught in school is no longer valid, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that my math is still good and $2,550,000
If my company were in trouble and struggling to stay in business I'd stop funding pensions too.



Well, you're a piece of shiat. Also, does this mean I can just stop paying my credit cards when I'm neck-deep in debt? That's money I promised to people and obviously that doesn't count for anything.


And if my employer explained what was happening I'd be OK with keeping my job and losing my pension.
Job without pension > nothing.

Just sayin'


I know somebody who's never been sick and isn't old!
 
2012-11-18 03:06:54 PM  

Silverstaff: jst3p: Oh, I see you have a shiat job and likely are not equipped with marketable job skills that are in demand.

The problem isn't 401k plans, it is you.

Well, let's see. . .

When I got the job, it was in 2007, you know, when the job market crashed hard and nobody could find work. Try finding a job circa Spring 2007 as a recent college graduate.

I had 2 B.A.'s (History and Political Science), with job experience working in tech support and legal research/legal secretary work, could type 75 words per minute, and spoke fluent Spanish and Japanese.

Didn't matter. No jobs out there at all. I spent almost a year hunting for any job I could find, anything. Started with stuff I had experience and training for, but despite hundreds of applications and a few dozen interviews, they went nowhere. I got desperate enough that I wasn't above flipping burgers, but even retail and food service weren't immediately hiring. Working in that shiathole of a call center wasn't the bright spot of my career, but it paid the bills (barely).

As for now? I've done a lot in the 4 years since I left that job. I've got skills, I've got credentials, I still believe 401k is a joke and an actual pension is something far more trustworthy. I've never seen anything to change my mind about them. I'll trust my military pension and my police retirement pension far more than I'll trust the bad joke that is 401k.


In July of 2011 we received a letter from the company. It said that the $3+ per hour that we as a Union contribute to the pension was going to be 'borrowed' by the company until they could be profitable again. Then they would pay it all back. The Union was notified of this the same time and method as the individual members. No contact from the company to the Union on a national level.

This money will never be paid back. The company filed for bankruptcy and the judge ruled that the $3+ per hour was a debt the company couldn't repay. The Union continued to work despite this theft of our self-funded pension contributions for over a year. I consider this money stolen. No other word in the English language describes what they have done to this money.


Link

I will keep my 401k and my investment property (will be properties by the time I retire) thank you very much.
 
2012-11-19 01:31:27 PM  
Why is "Think Progress" in the business tab instead of the politics tab?

shiatty politics blog is a not a business news site.
 
2012-11-19 07:40:27 PM  

Silverstaff: jst3p: Oh, I see you have a shiat job and likely are not equipped with marketable job skills that are in demand.

The problem isn't 401k plans, it is you.

Well, let's see. . .

When I got the job, it was in 2007, you know, when the job market crashed hard and nobody could find work. Try finding a job circa Spring 2007 as a recent college graduate.

I had 2 B.A.'s (History and Political Science), with job experience working in tech support and legal research/legal secretary work, could type 75 words per minute, and spoke fluent Spanish and Japanese.

Didn't matter. No jobs out there at all. I spent almost a year hunting for any job I could find, anything. Started with stuff I had experience and training for, but despite hundreds of applications and a few dozen interviews, they went nowhere. I got desperate enough that I wasn't above flipping burgers, but even retail and food service weren't immediately hiring. Working in that shiathole of a call center wasn't the bright spot of my career, but it paid the bills (barely).

As for now? I've done a lot in the 4 years since I left that job. I've got skills, I've got credentials, I still believe 401k is a joke and an actual pension is something far more trustworthy. I've never seen anything to change my mind about them. I'll trust my military pension and my police retirement pension far more than I'll trust the bad joke that is 401k.


CSB and you are a fracking post.
 
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