If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(BBC) NewsFlash Hamas rockets land just outside Jerusalem. If they hit a holy site, one of three religions is going to be PISSED   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 420
    More: NewsFlash, Hamas, Jerusalem, Israel Radio, City of God, Iron Dome, Gaza, population center, rockets  
•       •       •

7951 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Nov 2012 at 11:57 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


Want to get NewsFlash notifications in email?

420 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-11-16 12:57:51 PM
With the thousands of years' worth of historical "I was here first" "No, I was here first, not you!" going on, I don't think an equitable solution is possible. I do think the US should get its nose out of that business, though.

Maybe this could all be settled by a cage fight to the death between Bibi and whoever is heading Hamas now. It seems this would be just as sensible as any other possible solution over there.
 
2012-11-16 12:58:48 PM

Galloping Galoshes: KellyX: Israel should just put the Palestinians into special camps, let them concentrate them all in one location...

That's what seems to be the prevailing desire from what I can gather...

You don't gather much. The Israeli position is "don't shoot at us, and we won't shoot back. If you do shoot at us, don't be surprised what happens then."


Cause yea, blowing up Hamas' military leader wouldn't count as not shooting first and the "No Fight Back!" rule applies as well.

Clearly Israel is the victim here...
 
2012-11-16 12:58:58 PM

Son of Thunder: Amurica


Hey, f*cktard....do you believe in fables and fairy tales? Oh, you do? That's cute. Enjoy defending religion then.....

/real history, how does it work?
 
2012-11-16 12:59:10 PM
So i get to enjoy a barrage of ultra conservatives on Facebook spamming me with SAVE ISREAL posts....damn it. I was beginning to like not having politics being discussed.
 
2012-11-16 12:59:27 PM

bostonguy: Probably not that busy, although I don't know because news organizations would likely censor themselves from reporting such facts in the middle of a war so as not to embolden the enemy. Also, Israelis are tough and such toughness is self-enforced -- they would criticize people for fleeing. I've had friends criticize me for just going from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. You want to go about your daily lives without changing anything as a result of terrorism.


Eh, good point. I'm surprised that countries haven't put Israel on the "Do Not Travel" list yet. But I guess as this continues to escalate, it'll happen soon. And then at that point, I think the foreign travelers will get out of Dodge.

bostonguy: Second, I can only imagine the price-gouging that would occur if Israelis were flying away. Knowing the salaries here, I doubt anyone could afford it. And we Jews are cheap. :)


See, if you say it it's ok. But if I say it... :P

/I LOL'D
 
2012-11-16 12:59:42 PM
Please correct me if I am wrong.

Hezbollah is classified as a terrorist group with ties to Iran.

Iran is Sunni Muslim. Even though the majority of the Middle East is shiate Muslim, the Muslim Holy Sites in Jerusalem are important to both sects, correct?

So, isn't Hezbollah taking a HUGE HUGE risk at aiming rockets at Jerusalem? If they would hit a Muslim Holy Site, they would pretty much be the #1 enemy in the Muslim world?

/Not trolling or going for snark. I want to make sure I have the right facts.
 
2012-11-16 12:59:52 PM

CokeBear: Hamas wants to ensure that Bibi is re-elected in the upcoming election. As a radical hardliner, he helps their cause immensely.

If a peacenik (or even moderate or slightly sane centrist) PM was elected in Israel, there is a huge risk to Hamas that peace could break out, which is obviously not in their interests.

So the logical thing for them to do is exactly what they are doing, be as threatening and aggressive as possible, in order to ensure that their fellow hard-line loonies stay in power in Israel. They recognize that the real threat to extremists is not the extremists on the other side, since they both see things in extreme black & white terms, they actually share most elements of their worldview.

No, the threat to hardliners is the mushy middle. The pacifists on both sides who would rather talk, and build schools, hospitals and make life better for Israelis and Palestinians. Where's the profit and power in that? You keep power by keeping people afraid.


Pretty much. These guys also really do hate each other so much (the radicals on both sides) that ANY peace is an affront to them. Heck, a cease fire is anathema to them. They're "freedom fighters" and "valiant defenders", which carries mystique and respect. They don't want to lose that, and will do whatever it takes to keep that recognition.

The only way to win is for the world to refuse to play with either nutty group. I know, our team likes X and the other team likes Y. I wonder how quickly these idiots would quit if both sides stopped getting outside help at all.
 
2012-11-16 12:59:54 PM

bostonguy: Just to give people an objective feeling of what it feels like to be a random person in Israel. (And I've love to hear such similar, objective thoughts from anyone in Gaza.)

You hear a siren. You go to your safe room, the stairwell of your building, a local bomb shelter, or you lie on the ground against a south-facing wall and cover your head. You wait. A few minutes later, you hear a "boom." It will be loud or faint depending on how far away the impact was and whether it was a hit or an Iron Dome interception. You wait a few more minutes to be sure, and then you return to going about your daily life. Rinse and repeat.

If you live in the outskirts of the rocket range (at the moment), like in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv, this happens, say, once per day. If you live in Sderot or elsewhere close to Gaza, it happens every hour or every few hours.


very glad not to have experienced anything bad when i was out there a couple times for camp back in high school. worst we got was the failed car bombing of the bank on ben yehuda street ('98). Other than the introduction to everyone walking around with machine guns(which airports post-9/11 sure reminded me of later on), our dorms felt a little eery with the fact they were down a staircase with a heavy, locked door.


Okay the IDF and Alqassam Brigade are now sending angry tweets back and forth?? I assume those are 'fake' accounts and not really government ones?:P
 
2012-11-16 01:00:20 PM
The real issue here is that Hamas wants to influence the Israeli election to keep Bibi in power. They are extremists, and the only thing they hate more than extreme right-wing Israelis are moderate/left-wing Israelis who might restart the peace process. Hamas (and Bibi) are enemies of peace, and share the objective of keeping the conflict going, and keeping each other in power.

Anyone other than Bibi winning the Israeli election would put Hamas' power at grave risk of being replaced by more moderate folks, as such, they are determined to enrage the Israeli population into re-electing Bibi and taking the risk of peace off the table.

The only question is: Will Israelis fall for it?
 
2012-11-16 01:00:27 PM

Hobodeluxe: themindiswatching: Some of the rockets that have been used so far are Iranian made. Think Israel's going to use that as their excuse to bomb Iran?

that is exactly what I think.


No. Different situation, much more complex.

You know, since I've heard that the US is going to be an oil exporter in the relatively near future, I think this Middle East thing might work itself out. As oil reserves decline there, no one will give as much of a crap about the Middle East, and all those religious and terror groups will find their money lifelines drying up.
 
2012-11-16 01:01:59 PM

Galloping Galoshes: Mrtraveler01: That being said, no one deserves to go through this and it doesn't help that both Israel and Gaza have dickbags for leaders.

I'm curious, what alternative do you see Israeli leaders having when there's a group just over the border that keeps shooting at them?


At this point, I think they have no choice but to do what they're doing.

Still Bibi has done nothing to achieve any form of peace with Gaza or the West Bank and is nothing more than a hard-line neocon. Which is why he supported folks like Romney.
 
2012-11-16 01:01:59 PM

KellyX: Galloping Galoshes: KellyX: Israel should just put the Palestinians into special camps, let them concentrate them all in one location...

That's what seems to be the prevailing desire from what I can gather...

You don't gather much. The Israeli position is "don't shoot at us, and we won't shoot back. If you do shoot at us, don't be surprised what happens then."

Cause yea, blowing up Hamas' military leader wouldn't count as not shooting first and the "No Fight Back!" rule applies as well.

Clearly Israel is the victim here...


Are you being deliberately obtuse, or just a troll? Hamas has been shooting rockets and mortars, and sending in guys with guns for months now. Even the US press reported that. Heck, even Al Jazeera mentioned it.
 
2012-11-16 01:03:24 PM

ChipNASA: solitary: This land is mine, God gave this land to me!

That was worth the watch......

/just in case other Farkers roll by that link


Yeah that was really well done.
 
2012-11-16 01:03:43 PM

RanDomino: give me doughnuts
Gaza Strip population has tripled since 1995.

80% of the population is refugees.


bostonguy
Of course, those pieces of land still had a lot of the aforementioned Arabs and now their descendants. What to do? Answer that, and you'll get a Nobel Prize.

Either incorporate them as full citizens or let them have a viable state. Either of which can only be done unilaterally by Israel.


BolloxReader
The British totally trolled the Palestinians. They were supposed to be given their independence following WWI, in exchange for the Palestinians rising up against the Ottomans. Instead, their land was given to the Israelis

One of those many wonderful intractable internecine conflicts the British Empire left behind to ensure the locals would be too busy killing each other to come and get revenge- like Northern Ireland, India-Pakistan, half of Africa, arguably the American North vs South although US vs Canada may have been intended...


That solution seems sensible, but every conceivable has seriously good points and seriously bad ones.

Full citizens (the "one-state solution") -- Guaranteed civil war within a few years, if not years

A Palestinian state (the "two-state solution") -- What happens if Hamas takes over the Palestinian state and is then within easy range in the West Bank of firing simple mortars at Tel Aviv and Ben-Gurion Airport and is capable of splitting the state in two at its thinnest point (something like ten miles, I think)? This is what Israelis need to think about in the long-term.

There is no easy answer because each proposed solution is potentially very good and very bad.
 
2012-11-16 01:05:18 PM

bostonguy: Full citizens (the "one-state solution") -- Guaranteed civil war within a few years, if not years


FTFM: "if not weeks>"
 
2012-11-16 01:05:39 PM

mekki: Anyone who thinks science is always peaceful and religion is always violent is an idiot. It's hard to keep wars going if all you have are stones that you've picked off the ground. That's where science kicks in and shows you all the new ways to kill people. Many where you are thousands of miles away and you don't even have to leave your desk.


A religion is only as peaceful / violent as it's worshipers and the current zeitgeist, and science is neither peaceful nor violent. Science is just a tool. You might as well say that slide ruler isn't always peaceful.
 
2012-11-16 01:06:24 PM

KellyX: Galloping Galoshes: KellyX: Israel should just put the Palestinians into special camps, let them concentrate them all in one location...

That's what seems to be the prevailing desire from what I can gather...

You don't gather much. The Israeli position is "don't shoot at us, and we won't shoot back. If you do shoot at us, don't be surprised what happens then."

Cause yea, blowing up Hamas' military leader wouldn't count as not shooting first and the "No Fight Back!" rule applies as well.

Clearly Israel is the victim here...


Who in their right mind defends Hamas?


http://www.hrw.org/node/110517
 
2012-11-16 01:06:29 PM

Epicedion: Lunaville: Given the existence of organizations like Jews for Justice for Palestinians (Link), I think that view demonstrates a lack of imagination.

The ASPCA lobbies for animal rights, but that doesn't mean that the animals themselves have any power to push for them.


Palestinians are not animals. They are human beings blessed with intelligence and imagination. Your profile doesn't make any statements about your personal beliefs. So, I'm going to risk suggesting that you read the book of Esther for inspiration on how someone, such as a woman during a decidedly non-feminist point in history, who is relatively devalued and powerless can be influential. There is no need to read it expecting to be converted if you do not approve of faith. Just read it as you would a piece of secular literature and ask yourself these questions. Is any adult every truly powerless? What does it mean to use the power one does have rather than decry the power one lacks? How might that work?

Please, accept my apology if my suggestion that you read a portion of a bible is offensive to you.
 
2012-11-16 01:07:04 PM
farm5.static.flickr.com

I AM ANGRY ABOUT THE ........*poof*.........
 
2012-11-16 01:07:12 PM

bostonguy: Full citizens (the "one-state solution") -- Guaranteed civil war within a few years, if not years


That and the political establishment won't allow it because it would dilute the Jewish majority. They've come out and said that a few times before.

The problem basically is that Israel wants the land of the Gaza and the West Bank but doesn't want the people who inhabit these areas.

There is no good side as they're both dicks as far as I'm concerned.
 
2012-11-16 01:07:45 PM

geom_00: Please correct me if I am wrong.

Hezbollah is classified as a terrorist group with ties to Iran.

Iran is Sunni Muslim. Even though the majority of the Middle East is shiate Muslim, the Muslim Holy Sites in Jerusalem are important to both sects, correct?

So, isn't Hezbollah taking a HUGE HUGE risk at aiming rockets at Jerusalem? If they would hit a Muslim Holy Site, they would pretty much be the #1 enemy in the Muslim world?

/Not trolling or going for snark. I want to make sure I have the right facts.


Not Hezbollah. Hamas, from Gaza. Also, Iran is predominantly Shia Muslim. The majority is Sunni. And IIRC, no, Jerusalem is not held holy by all sects. Don't quote me on that last, though.
And I'm sure muslims everywhere would find a way to rationalize around a hit on Al Quds.
 
2012-11-16 01:08:15 PM
garotasperversas.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-11-16 01:08:38 PM

ChipNASA: [bokertov.typepad.com image 480x303]

/stokes the fire


i75.photobucket.com

//stokin' it more.
 
2012-11-16 01:08:44 PM

shastacola: Who in their right mind defends Hamas?


Many Palestinians, who found Hamas and the help they provided superior to Al Fatah and their endemic corruption.
 
2012-11-16 01:09:03 PM

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Purdue_Pete: Hamas... they are tricky. Putting a launch site near the playground makes the Jews be pretty damned accurate to avoid dead kids.

[kleinonline.wnd.com image 478x256]

Zeitoun. Huh. Massacre by IDF when they forced civilians into buildings that were later bombed by the IDF. Additionally, Zeitoun evidently is the first ground the IDF will head for if they invade that area of Gaza.


Riiiiigggghhhhttt. Sounds legit.
 
2012-11-16 01:09:25 PM

Galloping Galoshes: Not Hezbollah. Hamas, from Gaza. Also, Iran is predominantly Shia Muslim


Thank you.
 
2012-11-16 01:09:28 PM
I'm so glad my IRR time in the army is up.
 
2012-11-16 01:09:44 PM

nmemkha: Malivon: I predict this happening:

North Korea, feeling neglected, will INVADE THE UNITED STATES and we will all be saved by blue eyed white teenagers with hunting rifles!

/FTFY
/sounds like the plot to a very bad movie to me.


Very bad movie is a bit of an understatement. It's unquestionably the stupidest premise in the history of Hollywood.
 
2012-11-16 01:10:13 PM

RanDomino: give me doughnuts
Gaza Strip population has tripled since 1995.

80% of the population is 4th generation refugees.



FTFY. There have been no new refugees since 1948.

RanDomino: Either incorporate them as full citizens or let them have a viable state. Either of which can only be done unilaterally by Israel.


You are going to keep ignoring what happened when they unilaterally pulled otu of Gaza aren't you?
 
2012-11-16 01:10:23 PM

Galloping Galoshes: When has this happened? When Hamas got too violent, Israel has entered several times and Egypt did nothing. It's not in Egypt's interest to engage Israel.


The times they are a-changing. Among other things, Mubarak is gone. Not sure whether the new rulers care about the peace bribeforeign aid Egypt gets from the US.
 
2012-11-16 01:10:55 PM

Mrtraveler01: bostonguy: Full citizens (the "one-state solution") -- Guaranteed civil war within a few years, if not years

That and the political establishment won't allow it because it would dilute the Jewish majority. They've come out and said that a few times before.

The problem basically is that Israel wants the land of the Gaza and the West Bank but doesn't want the people who inhabit these areas.

There is no good side as they're both dicks as far as I'm concerned.


That's why my personal solution would be to transfer to populations of Gaza and the West Bank to Egypt and Jordan, respectively. It's the only way to image peace if you are thinking decades down the road. Israel could also give the Palestinians money, grants, etc., to move. You have a secure Jewish state and the Palestinian people would have full rights within those Arab states (as they once did before their citizenship was revoked). But Egypt and Jordan would never allow this because, who wants a group of poor, uneducated, violence-prone people to enter their country en masse?

Under this idea, Israel would be a pariah for years, but it would be worth the peace decades down the road.

But it'll never happen.
 
2012-11-16 01:11:34 PM

solitary: This land is mine, God gave this land to me!


Brilliant
 
2012-11-16 01:11:40 PM

robohobo: [garotasperversas.files.wordpress.com image 300x247]


As a Buffy fan myself, I love that!
 
2012-11-16 01:11:59 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: That's the difference between Jews, Christians, and Muslims. Christians don't believe that The Law holds any sway over believers. Therefore holy sites are nice tourist attractions, but don't have any intrinsic spiritual value.


Bullshiat. If some group of people was shelling the Vatican I sincerely doubt the Catholics would "turn the other cheeks" and just go live somewhere else.
 
2012-11-16 01:12:19 PM

Uncle Tractor: Galloping Galoshes: When has this happened? When Hamas got too violent, Israel has entered several times and Egypt did nothing. It's not in Egypt's interest to engage Israel.

The times they are a-changing. Among other things, Mubarak is gone. Not sure whether the new rulers care about the peace bribeforeign aid Egypt gets from the US.


We'll know soon enough. I would bet against any Egyptian military action.
 
2012-11-16 01:12:32 PM

ChipNASA: solitary: This land is mine, God gave this land to me!

That was worth the watch......

/just in case other Farkers roll by that link


Yes. Yes it was.

/one smart to your post
//just to make sure
 
2012-11-16 01:12:58 PM

robohobo: [garotasperversas.files.wordpress.com image 300x247]


Great ,thanks to Robohobo, now I'm going to burn in hell.
 
2012-11-16 01:13:28 PM

Galloping Galoshes: shastacola: Who in their right mind defends Hamas?

Many Palestinians, who found Hamas and the help they provided superior to Al Fatah and their endemic corruption.


So the trains run on time.
 
2012-11-16 01:14:39 PM

Galloping Galoshes: You don't gather much. The Israeli position is "don't shoot at us, and we won't shoot back. If you do shoot at us, don't be surprised what happens then."


And the Palestinian position is "Give back the land you stole from us and stop bombing us and we won't need to shoot back!"
 
2012-11-16 01:15:28 PM
Part of me wishes either Israel or the Muslim world would just wipe the other one out so they would all just STFU.

That's probably politically incorrect though
 
2012-11-16 01:15:39 PM

geom_00: So, isn't Hezbollah taking a HUGE HUGE risk at aiming rockets at Jerusalem? If they would hit a Muslim Holy Site, they would pretty much be the #1 enemy in the Muslim world?


Interesting question.

When their rockets hit arab muslims the response is to celebrate them as Martyr's.

Mrtraveler01: The problem basically is that Israel wants the land of the Gaza and the West Bank but doesn't want the people who inhabit these areas.


If this is true why did they pull out?
 
2012-11-16 01:15:53 PM

SpectroBoy: Galloping Galoshes: You don't gather much. The Israeli position is "don't shoot at us, and we won't shoot back. If you do shoot at us, don't be surprised what happens then."

And the Palestinian position is "Give back the land you stole from us and stop bombing us and we won't need to shoot back!"


Enjoy your world view.
 
2012-11-16 01:16:28 PM

Lunaville: Palestinians are not animals.


If you don't understand the analogy, you could just say so. Going straight to a literal linkage instead of trying to understand the general similarity speaks to what appears to be a lack of critical thinking. Since you haven't gotten past that, I'll assume that whatever you have to say about the Bible is trite derp.
 
2012-11-16 01:17:13 PM

GrizzlyPouch: Part of me wishes either Israel or the Muslim world would just wipe the other one out so they would all just STFU.

That's probably politically incorrect though


I support this statement
 
2012-11-16 01:17:56 PM

The_Fuzz: mekki: Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw

Ah, yes, science. You know, what you use to make the rockets and bombs.

Anyone who thinks science is always peaceful and religion is always violent is an idiot. It's hard to keep wars going if all you have are stones that you've picked off the ground. That's where science kicks in and shows you all the new ways to kill people. Many where you are thousands of miles away and you don't even have to leave your desk.

That's one of the dumbest things I've read in an Middle East war thread in a long time.

There is "truth in the guns don't kill people, I do" bumper sticker. Here's a hint. People with knowledge and Science aren't going to kill people on their own. They need some sort of motivation. Hrmm, like, say, fanatical religions zealots? Ya, that'll do just fine.


No, because in the history of the world, scientists have never done any inhumane things just in the name of science. Mengele, The Tuskegee Syphilis Study and Unit 731 are figments of your imagination. And this little gem was from three days ago, EPA Charged With Lethal Experiments On Hundreds Of Unsuspecting Subjects. Where was the religion in those experiments?
 
2012-11-16 01:18:09 PM

detritus: Please, let's end the bullshiat now. HIT ALL OF THEM


* Glass Parking lot
* Develop oil rigs that drill through glass
* Profit
 
2012-11-16 01:18:11 PM

shastacola: Galloping Galoshes: shastacola: Who in their right mind defends Hamas?

Many Palestinians, who found Hamas and the help they provided superior to Al Fatah and their endemic corruption.

So the trains run on time.


I'm not endorsing them. They came in and provided food, medicine, schools, etc. The locals preferred that to what Fatah was (not) doing for them. Of course, there are these unfortunate side effects to that decision, such as military incursions and bombings because of Hamas' unfortunate habit of shooting at the neighbors.
 
2012-11-16 01:18:26 PM

shastacola: The My Little Pony Killer: shastacola: The My Little Pony Killer: Let's keep encroaching on the land we shoved these people off onto and see if we can't get sunshine and rainbows from them.

/what Israel seriously believes

Maybe they believe it because it's pretty much the history of every country ever.

Really? Every country ever has had land handed to them by the foreign powers propping them up? I think you need to rethink your history lessons...
Every border line in the Middle East was drawn by foriegn powers.


I'm not talking about drawn borders, I'm talking about actual support.
 
2012-11-16 01:19:01 PM

liam76: arabs in ISrael is growing faster than the jewish population.


In a way that's worse than a stable population, because Israel has severely limited the amount of water available to Palestinians, as well as farmland.
/look up how many wells ended up on the Israeli side of the wall
//UN has a report on it that I'm too lazy to google.
 
2012-11-16 01:19:03 PM

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: BolloxReader: Lunaville: The My Little Pony Killer: Let's keep encroaching on the land we shoved these people off onto and see if we can't get sunshine and rainbows from them.

/what Israel seriously believes

Actually, the British shoved aside the Palestinians to form Israel with the consent of the USA. Palestine was British territory. To my knowledge, the only group that questioned the wisdom of shunting a huge percentage of Europes' Jewish population into Palestine at that time were the Quakers. And they didn't have really have an alternative solution to offer other than pushing to allow for more refugee entry into the United Kingdom and the United States which was hotly opposed at that time.

I do wonder why Hamas so rarely denounces Britain? And America? I mean, I know that they do, but by comparison to what they dump on Israel, it seems so subdued. Maybe it's a distance and perspective thing creating what is really, on my part, a misconception. It's hard to judge.

The British totally trolled the Palestinians. They were supposed to be given their independence following WWI, in exchange for the Palestinians rising up against the Ottomans. Instead, their land was given to the Israelis, and many have lived in camps for several generations in various other Muslim countries. They've been screwed for the last hundred years. Now they are being used as meatshields by Assad to keep Israel out of the Syrian civil war.

The English left because terrorists like Menachem Begin, head of the Irgun, blew up the Kind David Hotel, assassinated the UN Middle East envoy and threatened a terror campaign in the UK.

The Irgun was denounced by individuals like Albert Einstein and numerous Jewish organizations. To punish Begin, he was elected prime minister of Israel. Netanyahu's party is a direct descendant of the Irgun.


I wonder what sort of conditions would drive a group of people to something like terrorism...
 
Displayed 50 of 420 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report