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(BBC) NewsFlash Hamas rockets land just outside Jerusalem. If they hit a holy site, one of three religions is going to be PISSED   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 420
    More: NewsFlash, Hamas, Jerusalem, Israel Radio, City of God, Iron Dome, Gaza, population center, rockets  
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7955 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Nov 2012 at 11:57 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-11-16 11:59:00 AM
Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw
 
2012-11-16 11:59:31 AM
Hamas wants to ensure that Bibi is re-elected in the upcoming election. As a radical hardliner, he helps their cause immensely.

If a peacenik (or even moderate or slightly sane centrist) PM was elected in Israel, there is a huge risk to Hamas that peace could break out, which is obviously not in their interests.

So the logical thing for them to do is exactly what they are doing, be as threatening and aggressive as possible, in order to ensure that their fellow hard-line loonies stay in power in Israel. They recognize that the real threat to extremists is not the extremists on the other side, since they both see things in extreme black & white terms, they actually share most elements of their worldview.

No, the threat to hardliners is the mushy middle. The pacifists on both sides who would rather talk, and build schools, hospitals and make life better for Israelis and Palestinians. Where's the profit and power in that? You keep power by keeping people afraid.
 
2012-11-16 11:59:38 AM

Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw


I bet you'd get pretty upset if they launched a missile at the Large Hadron Collider, though. :D
 
2012-11-16 12:00:34 PM
/subby
// American Israeli who left Tel Aviv to crash at a friend's place in Jerusalem after hearing a rocket explode from his apartment
/// Isn't that ironic
//// No, not really, Alanis

Sorry. Fark keeps me company right now. :)
 
2012-11-16 12:01:03 PM
Things Israeli heating up over there.

/from other thread
 
2012-11-16 12:01:09 PM
oh good.

/Got all those weapons, might as well unleash them on the folks who've been penned up for two generations in a 141 square-mile concentration camp and are lashing out again.
//Genocide: It's OK when Israel does it.
 
2012-11-16 12:01:12 PM
The dune coons are at it again...
 
2012-11-16 12:01:35 PM

FitzShivering: I bet you'd get pretty upset if they launched a missile at the Large Hadron Collider, though. :D


my science!
 
2012-11-16 12:01:45 PM
Hope they didn't kill any innocent Holy shiates!
 
2012-11-16 12:02:10 PM
Hamas is guaranteeing a war, which is exactly what they want. Hamas will fail if Israel and the West Bank ever strike a peace accord, so they are guaranteeing it won't happen by starting a war.
 
2012-11-16 12:03:21 PM
Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worship the God of Abraham. They are literally fighting each other in the name of the same God.
 
2012-11-16 12:03:23 PM

greentea1985: Hamas is guaranteeing a war, which is exactly what they want. Hamas will fail if Israel and the West Bank ever strike a peace accord, so they are guaranteeing it won't happen by starting a war.


Doesn't help them if they are all dead.
 
2012-11-16 12:03:39 PM
dpsshow.com
 
2012-11-16 12:03:54 PM
So one side has some rockets whose operating instructions are basically "light fuse, aim away from face," and the other side has UAVs, tanks, guided weaponry, and missile shields.

www.specktra.net
I can't wait to find out how this turns out. The suspense is killing me.
 
2012-11-16 12:04:06 PM
Israel should now invade Gaza, and not leave until they've liquidated every single Hamas member.
 
2012-11-16 12:04:13 PM

greentea1985: Hamas is guaranteeing a war, which is exactly what they want. Hamas will fail if Israel and the West Bank ever strike a peace accord, so they are guaranteeing it won't happen by starting a war.


Obviously Hamas wants war. Will Bibi be stupid enough to give them what they want?
 
2012-11-16 12:04:15 PM
It's a bit outdated, but...

www.globalsecurity.org
 
2012-11-16 12:04:28 PM

nmemkha: Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worship the God of Abraham. They are literally fighting each other in the name of the same God.


Uh, it's more like one of them is fighting the other two, and often themselves when individual sects disagree.
 
2012-11-16 12:04:32 PM

bostonguy: /subby
// American Israeli who left Tel Aviv to crash at a friend's place in Jerusalem after hearing a rocket explode from his apartment
/// Isn't that ironic
//// No, not really, Alanis

Sorry. Fark keeps me company right now. :)


Stay safe, subby!
 
2012-11-16 12:04:40 PM
Its like the Hatfields and Mccoys except they've been fighting for 2000+ years and there is no pig involved...
 
2012-11-16 12:04:48 PM
Well kiss any global economic recovery goodbye if this escalates.
 
2012-11-16 12:04:51 PM
Should we really use the img1.fark.net if the breaking news is 5000 years old?
 
2012-11-16 12:04:58 PM

Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw


Ah, yes, science. You know, what you use to make the rockets and bombs.

Anyone who thinks science is always peaceful and religion is always violent is an idiot. It's hard to keep wars going if all you have are stones that you've picked off the ground. That's where science kicks in and shows you all the new ways to kill people. Many where you are thousands of miles away and you don't even have to leave your desk.
 
2012-11-16 12:05:06 PM
Not that they will but, yeah, if Hamas were to hit the dome of the rock or something... I wouldn't know whether to smirk or tense.
 
2012-11-16 12:05:15 PM
I didn't think you could swing a dead cat without hitting something religious to someone around there
 
2012-11-16 12:05:23 PM
Let's keep encroaching on the land we shoved these people off onto and see if we can't get sunshine and rainbows from them.

/what Israel seriously believes
 
2012-11-16 12:05:42 PM

Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw


Science was created by the devil to trick men in to shunning God. I hope you're happy now, you fell for it hook, line, and pitchfork!
 
2012-11-16 12:05:42 PM

moops: Israel should now invade Gaza, and not leave until they've liquidated every single Hamas member.


how do you do that? with a centrifuge?
 
2012-11-16 12:05:44 PM

Silly Jesus: Should we really use the [img1.fark.net image 54x11] if the breaking news is 5000 years old?


Or news that is otherwise known as "Tuesday".
 
2012-11-16 12:05:51 PM
Damnit Boston. GTFO of town. Isn't this a wonderful time of year to head west for a European Vacation? I've seen the movie. It looks like a blast. BE THE PIG man! Its kosher I think.
 
2012-11-16 12:05:57 PM

bostonguy: nmemkha: Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worship the God of Abraham. They are literally fighting each other in the name of the same God.

Uh, it's more like one of them is fighting the other two, and often themselves when individual sects disagree.


That's heresy! Prepare to die, Infidel!
 
2012-11-16 12:06:01 PM

nmemkha: Well kiss any global economic recovery goodbye if this escalates.


Why? Wars are always good for manufacturing and increasing employment.
 
2012-11-16 12:06:42 PM
The Dome of the Rock and the Wailing Wall are right next to each other.
 
2012-11-16 12:06:49 PM
anongallery.org
 
2012-11-16 12:07:12 PM

nmemkha: Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worship the God of Abraham. They are literally fighting each other in the name of the same God.

This, SO MUCH THIS!!!!

 
2012-11-16 12:07:19 PM

bostonguy: /subby
// American Israeli who left Tel Aviv to crash at a friend's place in Jerusalem after hearing a rocket explode from his apartment
/// Isn't that ironic
//// No, not really, Alanis

Sorry. Fark keeps me company right now. :)


If true, you stay safe
 
2012-11-16 12:07:26 PM
Why does this warrant the use of the newsflash tag?

Also: 

t2.gstatic.com
 
2012-11-16 12:07:38 PM
I love Egypt's take on it- what the hell, guys! Why aren't you letting them fire rockets at you?!
 
2012-11-16 12:07:40 PM

SpectroBoy: Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw

Science was created by the devil to trick men in to shunning God. I hope you're happy now, you fell for it hook, line, and pitchfork!


Grrr! Haha, I guess I should have said understanding of real history ftw. F*ck that fable/fairytale shiat. It's farking 2012!!!
 
2012-11-16 12:07:45 PM
Hamas rockets land just outside Jerusalem. If they hit a holy site, one of three religions is going to be PISSED

I would be most amused if one of these rockets blows the mosques right off the Temple mount.

/Depending on the site, all three might be pissed.
 
2012-11-16 12:07:49 PM
Religious people do not get pissed when attacked by member of other religions, they get genocidal.
 
2012-11-16 12:07:50 PM
Why is this even news? Is the Israeli lobby paying drew directly?
 
2012-11-16 12:07:52 PM
It wasn't holy enough, subby.

Would you please leave them to their daily worship?
 
2012-11-16 12:07:53 PM
Love and rockets.

It's almost as if Hamas is trying to lure Israel into a trap.
 
2012-11-16 12:08:12 PM

enigmaxx: Why does this warrant the use of the newsflash tag?

Also: 

[t2.gstatic.com image 250x202]


Because we care what happens in Israel for some damn reason.
 
2012-11-16 12:08:42 PM

mekki: Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw

Ah, yes, science. You know, what you use to make the rockets and bombs.

Anyone who thinks science is always peaceful and religion is always violent is an idiot. It's hard to keep wars going if all you have are stones that you've picked off the ground. That's where science kicks in and shows you all the new ways to kill people. Many where you are thousands of miles away and you don't even have to leave your desk.


Well it's 1:00 PM here and this is the new front runner for dumbest thing I've read all day.
 
rmz
2012-11-16 12:08:45 PM

mekki: Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw

Ah, yes, science. You know, what you use to make the rockets and bombs.

Anyone who thinks science is always peaceful and religion is always violent is an idiot. It's hard to keep wars going if all you have are stones that you've picked off the ground. That's where science kicks in and shows you all the new ways to kill people. Many where you are thousands of miles away and you don't even have to leave your desk.


Having the technology to make weapons is different than having a moral excuse (or imperative) to kill those you disagree with. Science doesn't have much to do with the latter.
 
2012-11-16 12:08:45 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Because we care what happens in Israel for some damn reason.


Why again?
 
2012-11-16 12:08:47 PM

jagermech: bostonguy: /subby
// American Israeli who left Tel Aviv to crash at a friend's place in Jerusalem after hearing a rocket explode from his apartment
/// Isn't that ironic
//// No, not really, Alanis

Sorry. Fark keeps me company right now. :)

Stay safe, subby!


Thanks! :)
 
2012-11-16 12:09:28 PM
You know, if only Israel had performed airstrikes this week in Gaza and killed the leader of the military portion of Hamas, maybe this wouldn't have happened.

/oh, wait
//don't worry, Israel, you'll strike back and THAT time, for sure, without a doubt, will work because it has to at SOME point, right?
///how about trying something different for a change?
 
2012-11-16 12:09:36 PM

Prevailing Wind: Damnit Boston. GTFO of town. Isn't this a wonderful time of year to head west for a European Vacation? I've seen the movie. It looks like a blast. BE THE PIG man! Its kosher I think.


I don't flee when my home is being attacked. And I appreciate the humor! :)
 
2012-11-16 12:09:37 PM
CokeBear: "No, the threat to hardliners is the mushy middle. The pacifists on both sides who would rather talk, and build schools, hospitals and make life better for Israelis and Palestinians. Where's the profit and power in that?"

This.
Though I would clarify and underline a part I think you just left implied: "Where's the profit and power *for a hardliner* in that?"
Plenty of people can amass power and profit given a peaceful solution.
They just aren't the ones who go on about crushing things beneath their boot-heels.

That said, I have a hard time feeling pity for the mushy middle of voters, if they're still swayed by hardliner nonsense after generations of hardliner nonsense has failed.
 
2012-11-16 12:10:03 PM
Yawn.
 
2012-11-16 12:10:15 PM
I'm glad these Hamas guys don't run NASA. Their rockets can't hit crap.
 
2012-11-16 12:10:16 PM

nmemkha: Well kiss any global economic recovery goodbye if this escalates.


Why? War is GREAT for the economy. (real, declared war, not prolonged bulls!t wars).

Factories ramp up and money flows. Fuel, weapons, planes, boats, jobs!

It's not so good for the places where the fighting is, but the US economy would get a boost from selling weapons and support to Israel.
 
2012-11-16 12:10:31 PM
I'm trying to remain rational and make an honest effort to understand the issues involved in the conflict between Israel and Palestine. However, I am beginning to feel that Hamas and Netanyahu are the common enemies of the Palestinian and Israeli people. Each inflicts violence on civilians. Neither considers non-violent options at any stage. Both perpetuate injustices and respond to violence and injustice with their own acts of violence and injustice which achieves the same dismal result over and over again.
Maybe Jews for Peace and pro-peace Palestinians will have to form an Occupy Peace movement or something. I don't know. I don't know what the answer is, but it certainly isn't war. The time and resources wasted in devotion to war are time and resources that could be put into finding a real answer.
 
2012-11-16 12:10:41 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I didn't think you could swing a dead cat without hitting something religious to someone around there


tippedearclan.files.wordpress.com

OMG...were farked.
 
2012-11-16 12:10:48 PM

CokeBear: Hamas wants to ensure that Bibi is re-elected in the upcoming election. As a radical hardliner, he helps their cause immensely.

If a peacenik (or even moderate or slightly sane centrist) PM was elected in Israel, there is a huge risk to Hamas that peace could break out, which is obviously not in their interests.

So the logical thing for them to do is exactly what they are doing, be as threatening and aggressive as possible, in order to ensure that their fellow hard-line loonies stay in power in Israel. They recognize that the real threat to extremists is not the extremists on the other side, since they both see things in extreme black & white terms, they actually share most elements of their worldview.

No, the threat to hardliners is the mushy middle. The pacifists on both sides who would rather talk, and build schools, hospitals and make life better for Israelis and Palestinians. Where's the profit and power in that? You keep power by keeping people afraid.


This is BS.

Bibi f-ing assassinated the head of Hamas Security forces just the other day. That guy was working with others to get a ceasefire done. Bibi's extra judicial assassination is what touched off the latest round of fighting.

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/how-israel-shattered - gaza-truce-leading-escalating-death-and-tragedy-timeline
 
2012-11-16 12:11:03 PM
If they want to hurt Hamas, they need to invade Syria. That's who started Hamas, that's who arms them and that's who gives them orders.

Remember that "Isreal retaliates against a Syrian shelling" thing that happened just before the Hamas attacks? I can guarantee that this is nothing but a way for Assad to turn the Palestinians into unwilling meatshields. Again.
 
2012-11-16 12:11:17 PM
Some of the rockets that have been used so far are Iranian made. Think Israel's going to use that as their excuse to bomb Iran?
 
2012-11-16 12:11:26 PM
HotIgneous Intruder: oh good.

/Got all those weapons, might as well unleash them on the folks who've been penned up for two generations in a 141 square-mile concentration camp and are lashing out again.
//Genocide: It's OK when Israel does it.

///and only an anti-semite would disagree! :-)
 
2012-11-16 12:11:26 PM

mcreadyblue: The Dome of the Rock and the Wailing Wall are right next to each other.


The rockets currently used by Hamas are not as powerful as one may think. I spoke with a missile-defense expert from the United States at a pub recently, and he said they will take out one floor of an apartment building, for example, but not the whole building. So I could see a rocket hitting one but leaving the other intact.
 
2012-11-16 12:11:49 PM

Headso: moops: Israel should now invade Gaza, and not leave until they've liquidated every single Hamas member.

how do you do that? with a centrifuge?


Centrifuge would work. I would have also accepted "grinder", "mill", or "press"
 
2012-11-16 12:12:02 PM

mekki: Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw

Ah, yes, science. You know, what you use to make the rockets and bombs.

Anyone who thinks science is always peaceful and religion is always violent is an idiot. It's hard to keep wars going if all you have are stones that you've picked off the ground. That's where science kicks in and shows you all the new ways to kill people. Many where you are thousands of miles away and you don't even have to leave your desk.


I... I don't even know how to respond to this.

I... just can't...
 
2012-11-16 12:12:10 PM
Muslim - The McDonald's of religion
 
2012-11-16 12:12:21 PM

Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw


Worked wonders in the Soviet Union, after all.
 
2012-11-16 12:12:22 PM
alphabetagemma.files.wordpress.com

www.luishurtado.com
 
2012-11-16 12:12:25 PM

cgraves67: I'm glad these Hamas guys don't run NASA. Their rockets can't hit crap.


"We've just received word that the mars rover has launched and then immediately crashed into sesame street killing 13 , ah, ah, ah"
 
2012-11-16 12:12:29 PM
themindiswatching: Some of the rockets that have been used so far are Iranian made. Think Israel's going to use that as their excuse to bomb Iran?

//don't drink the kool-aid, buddy.
 
2012-11-16 12:12:34 PM
Well, this is one way Israel will finally get to strike Iran. Looks like Bibi Butthead is going to suck us into another ME war.
 
2012-11-16 12:12:35 PM

mekki: Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw

Ah, yes, science. You know, what you use to make the rockets and bombs.

Anyone who thinks science is always peaceful and religion is always violent is an idiot. It's hard to keep wars going if all you have are stones that you've picked off the ground. That's where science kicks in and shows you all the new ways to kill people. Many where you are thousands of miles away and you don't even have to leave your desk.


That's one of the dumbest things I've read in an Middle East war thread in a long time.

There is "truth in the guns don't kill people, I do" bumper sticker. Here's a hint. People with knowledge and Science aren't going to kill people on their own. They need some sort of motivation. Hrmm, like, say, fanatical religions zealots? Ya, that'll do just fine.
 
2012-11-16 12:12:42 PM
Hamas... they are tricky. Putting a launch site near the playground makes the Jews be pretty damned accurate to avoid dead kids.

kleinonline.wnd.com
 
2012-11-16 12:12:51 PM

SpectroBoy:
Why? War is GREAT for the economy. (real, declared war, not prolonged bulls!t wars).


3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-11-16 12:13:28 PM
If Romney had won we'd be gearing up for war.

/glad he didn't
 
2012-11-16 12:13:38 PM
faculty.etsu.edu

/have a happy friday farkers
 
2012-11-16 12:13:42 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: oh good.

/Got all those weapons, might as well unleash them on the folks who've been penned up for two generations in a 141 square-mile concentration camp and are lashing out again.
//Genocide: It's OK when Israel does it.


Gaza Strip population has tripled since 1995.

WORST. GENOCIDE. EVAR.
 
2012-11-16 12:13:56 PM
I saw we send in a seal team. They could sneak up behind Israel, inflate a LARGE brown paper bag, and then POP it.

The flinch should be enough to get this war rolling.
 
2012-11-16 12:13:59 PM

The_Fuzz: mekki: Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw

Ah, yes, science. You know, what you use to make the rockets and bombs.

Anyone who thinks science is always peaceful and religion is always violent is an idiot. It's hard to keep wars going if all you have are stones that you've picked off the ground. That's where science kicks in and shows you all the new ways to kill people. Many where you are thousands of miles away and you don't even have to leave your desk.

That's one of the dumbest things I've read in an Middle East war thread in a long time.

There is "truth in the guns don't kill people, I do" bumper sticker. Here's a hint. People with knowledge and Science aren't going to kill people on their own. They need some sort of motivation. Hrmm, like, say, fanatical religions zealots? Ya, that'll do just fine.


This.
 
2012-11-16 12:14:03 PM

bostonguy: /subby
// American Israeli who left Tel Aviv to crash at a friend's place in Jerusalem after hearing a rocket explode from his apartment
/// Isn't that ironic
//// No, not really, Alanis

Sorry. Fark keeps me company right now. :)


Keep yer head down and stay safe, Subby. When the explosions stop and you can get out, have a roadside felafel for me. (Visited Israel back in 1989 and STILL crave those sumbiatches.) In the meantime, have a little TF on me to keep you company.
 
2012-11-16 12:14:14 PM
As much as you may think it, Christians may be upset about the destruction of whatever holy site there is for about a week then they'll go back to not caring about it.

That's the difference between Jews, Christians, and Muslims. Christians don't believe that The Law holds any sway over believers. Therefore holy sites are nice tourist attractions, but don't have any intrinsic spiritual value.
 
2012-11-16 12:16:11 PM

wantingout: HotIgneous Intruder: oh good.

/Got all those weapons, might as well unleash them on the folks who've been penned up for two generations in a 141 square-mile concentration camp and are lashing out again.
//Genocide: It's OK when Israel does it.

///and only an anti-semite would disagree! :-)


It's not only Israel that keeps them in Gaza - Egypt doesn't want them, and no one else will take them. Israel has maintained a blockade on Gaza since Hamas began shooting at them from there. Israel's terms are pretty simple. Don't shoot at me, I won't shoot back.
 
2012-11-16 12:16:37 PM

nmemkha: Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worship the God of Abraham. They are literally fighting each other in the name of the same God.


But Abram came from Sumer and was a polytheist. Until he out-Sauled Saul of Tarsus. Why do people have to change teams??? What was so wrong with Marduk?
 
2012-11-16 12:17:29 PM

Goonie_Goo_Goo: bostonguy: /subby
// American Israeli who left Tel Aviv to crash at a friend's place in Jerusalem after hearing a rocket explode from his apartment
/// Isn't that ironic
//// No, not really, Alanis

Sorry. Fark keeps me company right now. :)

Keep yer head down and stay safe, Subby. When the explosions stop and you can get out, have a roadside felafel for me. (Visited Israel back in 1989 and STILL crave those sumbiatches.) In the meantime, have a little TF on me to keep you company.


Holy crap, thanks so much! Since a certain Farker who's name I won't mention isn't here because of Shabbat, I'll try to keep people updated. This former journalist will try to be neutral, but I have an obvious personal interest. :)

I'm watching the news from well inside a Jerusalem pub (and not outside, of course) and will soon go to my Israeli friend's apartment where I'll be staying to watch it from there.
 
2012-11-16 12:17:32 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Let's keep encroaching on the land we shoved these people off onto and see if we can't get sunshine and rainbows from them.

/what Israel seriously believes


Actually, the British shoved aside the Palestinians to form Israel with the consent of the USA. Palestine was British territory. To my knowledge, the only group that questioned the wisdom of shunting a huge percentage of Europes' Jewish population into Palestine at that time were the Quakers. And they didn't have really have an alternative solution to offer other than pushing to allow for more refugee entry into the United Kingdom and the United States which was hotly opposed at that time.

I do wonder why Hamas so rarely denounces Britain? And America? I mean, I know that they do, but by comparison to what they dump on Israel, it seems so subdued. Maybe it's a distance and perspective thing creating what is really, on my part, a misconception. It's hard to judge.
 
2012-11-16 12:17:35 PM

CokeBear: Hamas wants to ensure that Bibi is re-elected in the upcoming election. As a radical hardliner, he helps their cause immensely.

If a peacenik (or even moderate or slightly sane centrist) PM was elected in Israel, there is a huge risk to Hamas that peace could break out, which is obviously not in their interests.

So the logical thing for them to do is exactly what they are doing, be as threatening and aggressive as possible, in order to ensure that their fellow hard-line loonies stay in power in Israel. They recognize that the real threat to extremists is not the extremists on the other side, since they both see things in extreme black & white terms, they actually share most elements of their worldview.

No, the threat to hardliners is the mushy middle. The pacifists on both sides who would rather talk, and build schools, hospitals and make life better for Israelis and Palestinians. Where's the profit and power in that? You keep power by keeping people afraid.


Hamas is only in power because the Israeli government/army is extremely abusive to Palestinians. Israel isn't solely to blame, but their continued expansion and segregation/discrimination against Palestinians contributes heavily to the problem.
 
2012-11-16 12:17:51 PM

CokeBear: No, the threat to hardliners is the mushy middle. The pacifists non-nutballs on both sides who would rather talk, and build schools, hospitals and make life better for Israelis and Palestinians. Where's the profit and power in that? You keep power by keeping people afraid


You don't have to be a pacifist to want this shiat to end.

Problem is Hamas has an iron grip on Gaza and until outside aid from other Arabs who think "death to the jews" is the best course of action for them, that isn't going to change because they will remian the strongest party.
 
2012-11-16 12:18:14 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: As much as you may think it, Christians may be upset about the destruction of whatever holy site there is for about a week then they'll go back to not caring about it.


Unless the parking lot that was build over Golgotha gets hit.
/Needed a better Tourism Bureau back then.
 
2012-11-16 12:18:14 PM

Marine1: Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw

Worked wonders in the Soviet Union, after all.


The Soviet Union had a grasp on science that could at best be described as tenuous.
 
2012-11-16 12:18:17 PM

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: nmemkha: Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worship the God of Abraham. They are literally fighting each other in the name of the same God.

But Abram came from Sumer and was a polytheist. Until he out-Sauled Saul of Tarsus. Why do people have to change teams??? What was so wrong with Marduk?


It ain't nothing but a G thing. Mortals can't relate dawg.
 
2012-11-16 12:18:35 PM

mekki: Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw

Ah, yes, science. You know, what you use to make the rockets and bombs.

Anyone who thinks science is always peaceful and religion is always violent is an idiot. It's hard to keep wars going if all you have are stones that you've picked off the ground. That's where science kicks in and shows you all the new ways to kill people. Many where you are thousands of miles away and you don't even have to leave your desk.


I am not sure how, but you managed to put your entire head up your ass there
 
2012-11-16 12:18:43 PM
This isn't a repeat of the last thousand years
 
2012-11-16 12:18:55 PM

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Until he out-Sauled Saul of Tarsu


Paul. All these name changes.
 
2012-11-16 12:19:24 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: oh good.

/Got all those weapons, might as well unleash them on the folks who've been penned up for two generations in a 141 square-mile concentration camp and are lashing out again.
//Genocide: It's OK when Israel does it.


Penned up? I'm pretty sure the Palestinians are free to go anytime they wish. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that Israel would pick up their bus fare.
 
2012-11-16 12:19:37 PM

give me doughnuts: HotIgneous Intruder: oh good.

/Got all those weapons, might as well unleash them on the folks who've been penned up for two generations in a 141 square-mile concentration camp and are lashing out again.
//Genocide: It's OK when Israel does it.

Gaza Strip population has tripled since 1995.

WORST. GENOCIDE. EVAR.


Darn those people like to fark.

Someone should get them cable or something.
 
2012-11-16 12:19:37 PM
s3.vidimg02.popscreen.com

would have sucked to be in a Quiznos cup when the bomb came
 
2012-11-16 12:19:59 PM
bokertov.typepad.com

/stokes the fire
 
2012-11-16 12:20:01 PM

SpectroBoy: I saw we send in a seal team. They could sneak up behind Israel, inflate a LARGE brown paper bag, and then POP it.

The flinch should be enough to get this war rolling.


Dude.. How inhumane are you? Don't you think that's a bit extreme? What's next huh? HUH? Grabbing someones nose, then curling your thumb between your index and middle finger while declaring GOT YOUR NOSE?

WHEN DOES IT STOP MAN???
 
2012-11-16 12:20:02 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: [s3.vidimg02.popscreen.com image 480x360]

would have sucked to be in a Quiznos cup when the bomb came


Truth.
 
2012-11-16 12:20:08 PM

Lunaville: I'm trying to remain rational and make an honest effort to understand the issues involved in the conflict between Israel and Palestine. However, I am beginning to feel that Hamas and Netanyahu are the common enemies of the Palestinian and Israeli people.


Better late than never. Welcome to the club. Many of the leaders in the Middle East benefit directly by making sure the Palestinians' lives are as awful as possible. They have been the putative political football for long enough that everyone knows they can toss that pigskin for a few yards. On the other hand, we ought to remember this when we go out of our way to encourage democracy in other countries. We can't say, "Democracy at any cost!" and then remain all snooty when people get elected we don't like, even if it's palpably obvious those people are bad for their citizens.

The whole situation is a clusterfark, and will remain that way until the people in charge stop getting enriched by the conflict. I don't even believe it's about differing religions anymore, over there.
 
2012-11-16 12:20:11 PM

Prevailing Wind: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I didn't think you could swing a dead cat without hitting something religious to someone around there

[tippedearclan.files.wordpress.com image 468x572]

OMG...were farked.


WTF is wrong with chinese people.
And WTF with my god bigger than your god.

/rant off
 
2012-11-16 12:20:58 PM
Whoa, whoa, whoa. There is turmoil in the middle east!? When did this happen!?
 
2012-11-16 12:21:01 PM

Lunaville: The My Little Pony Killer: Let's keep encroaching on the land we shoved these people off onto and see if we can't get sunshine and rainbows from them.

/what Israel seriously believes

Actually, the British shoved aside the Palestinians to form Israel with the consent of the USA. Palestine was British territory. To my knowledge, the only group that questioned the wisdom of shunting a huge percentage of Europes' Jewish population into Palestine at that time were the Quakers. And they didn't have really have an alternative solution to offer other than pushing to allow for more refugee entry into the United Kingdom and the United States which was hotly opposed at that time.

I do wonder why Hamas so rarely denounces Britain? And America? I mean, I know that they do, but by comparison to what they dump on Israel, it seems so subdued. Maybe it's a distance and perspective thing creating what is really, on my part, a misconception. It's hard to judge.


It could be the fact that they see Israel attacking them, not the US or Britain.
 
2012-11-16 12:21:44 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: oh good.

/Got all those weapons, might as well unleash them on the folks who've been penned up for two generations in a 141 square-mile concentration camp and are lashing out again.
//Genocide: It's OK when Israel does it.


"Never Forget" wasn't supposed to mean "so you can later apply those tactics yourself", Israel.
 
2012-11-16 12:21:46 PM

Galloping Galoshes: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Until he out-Sauled Saul of Tarsu

Paul. All these name changes.


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-11-16 12:21:54 PM

Galloping Galoshes: nmemkha: Well kiss any global economic recovery goodbye if this escalates.

Why? Wars are always good for manufacturing and increasing employment.


That's a myth. Every war throughout history has had a negative effect on the economy. The only apparent exception were the World Wars. There was a boom following them and it is easy to understand might look to that and say "Look, there were two awful wars and, then, our economy leaped ahead." But it isn't true that the leap was due to war. The leap was due to unprecedented government investment in science and research. War takes economies down. Science and research investment increase the health and strength of an economy. And that science and research need not be dedicated to the machines of war. Investment dollars go even further when they are invested in projects that result in nifty new things like the internet, or medicine, or war-preventing green energy sources.
 
2012-11-16 12:22:08 PM

Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw


Yup. That's about the average intellectual level of the atheists in fark religion threads.
 
2012-11-16 12:22:10 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-11-16 12:22:11 PM

tolallorti: Hamas is only in power because the Israeli government/army is extremely abusive to Palestinians. Israel isn't solely to blame, but their continued expansion and segregation/discrimination against Palestinians contributes heavily to the problem


What happened right before Hamas was elected in Gaza?
Israel pulled all their people out (some by force).

wantingout: HotIgneous Intruder: oh good.

/Got all those weapons, might as well unleash them on the folks who've been penned up for two generations in a 141 square-mile concentration camp and are lashing out again.
//Genocide: It's OK when Israel does it.

///and only an anti-semite would disagree! :-)


Only an anti semite would accuse Israel of Genocide when the population in Gaza, and of arabs in ISrael is growing faster than the jewish population.

Unless you can come up with some other reason you would tell blatant lies about the country.
 
2012-11-16 12:22:21 PM
Israel should just put the Palestinians into special camps, let them concentrate them all in one location...

That's what seems to be the prevailing desire from what I can gather...
 
2012-11-16 12:23:15 PM

Free Radical: If Romney had won we'd be gearing up for war.

/glad he didn't


Glad he didn't too, just because he wouldn't be able to avoid saying something stupid and unnecessary as the President-Elect.

On the other hand, we could be headed for a war anyway. I seriously doubt that this will end without Israel rolling tanks into Gaza, and if Egypt actually follows through with their statement of support and also deploys forces in Gaza then it's a war. If the conflict becomes real/intense and/or other countries step in to assist then our ass runs to Israel's rescue (provided they don't unleash hell and end it in 48 hours), and we're embroiled once again in a war that is better solved by telling the Israelites that we will no longer protect them unless they live inside the US borders, and offer them some of our abundant land.
 
2012-11-16 12:23:15 PM

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: nmemkha: Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worship the God of Abraham. They are literally fighting each other in the name of the same God.

But Abram came from Sumer and was a polytheist. Until he out-Sauled Saul of Tarsus. Why do people have to change teams??? What was so wrong with Marduk?


Marduk is too busy jonseing for Stimutacs.
 
2012-11-16 12:23:33 PM

Lunaville: I'm trying to remain rational and make an honest effort to understand the issues involved in the conflict between Israel and Palestine. However, I am beginning to feel that Hamas and Netanyahu are the common enemies of the Palestinian and Israeli people. Each inflicts violence on civilians. Neither considers non-violent options at any stage. Both perpetuate injustices and respond to violence and injustice with their own acts of violence and injustice which achieves the same dismal result over and over again.
Maybe Jews for Peace and pro-peace Palestinians will have to form an Occupy Peace movement or something. I don't know. I don't know what the answer is, but it certainly isn't war. The time and resources wasted in devotion to war are time and resources that could be put into finding a real answer.


Hamas:
Step 1: Build Missile Launch site in apartment buildings, schools, hospitals, and mosques.
Step 2. Launch missiles at the hated Joos
Step 3. ????
Step 4. Die horribly when the Joos destroy the missile sites

There is no profit, unless you're the company selling the smart bombs, UAVs, fighter jets etc etc to the Joos.

Basically stop shooting rockets, and Israel will stop shooting places that rockets are coming from.

Oh and Egypt? Go fark a goat. You can't even keep your own shiat in order.
 
2012-11-16 12:23:37 PM

nmemkha: Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worship the God of Abraham. They are literally fighting each other in the name of the same God.


Logic has no place in this!! Blasphemer!
 
2012-11-16 12:23:37 PM
Meanwhile, in iran
 
2012-11-16 12:24:05 PM

ChipNASA: [bokertov.typepad.com image 480x303]

/stokes the fire


Martyrdom is a concept not readily embraced by Jews or Christians, bit for Muslims, dying for their faith* is a easy way into heaven. Yes, even their kids - its a cultural thing.

*Like Christianity, the reasons tends to be whatever the current religious powers want it to be, rather than having any actual doctrinal or dogmatic basis.
 
2012-11-16 12:24:06 PM

themindiswatching: Some of the rockets that have been used so far are Iranian made. Think Israel's going to use that as their excuse to bomb Iran?


Israel already is. They bombed many of the rocket launch sites (and storage) over the last few days in Iran's FOB.
 
2012-11-16 12:25:17 PM
Control + F "TATSUMA
(phrase not found)
/I miss old Super Jew.
 
2012-11-16 12:25:18 PM
Oh, this is going to turn out well.

I'm going to hang out over here. Away from the insanity. On a different continent.

Please keep me out of it.
 
2012-11-16 12:25:19 PM
Saladin: Will you yield the city?
Balian of Ibelin: Before I lose it, I will burn it to the ground. Your holy places - ours. Every last thing in Jerusalem that drives men mad.
Saladin: I wonder if it would not be better if you did.

- Kindom of Heaven. Awesome movie.
 
2012-11-16 12:25:22 PM
Too bad it wasn't a nuke.. that would have been the first step in solving a large portion of this problem.
 
2012-11-16 12:26:27 PM

Lunaville: Actually, the British shoved aside the Palestinians to form Israel with the consent of the USA. Palestine was British territory. To my knowledge, the only group that questioned the wisdom of shunting a huge percentage of Europes' Jewish population into Palestine at that time were the Quakers. And they didn't have really have an alternative solution to offer other than pushing to allow for more refugee entry into the United Kingdom and the United States which was hotly opposed at that time.


Not particularly accurate. The Balfour declaration did call for a Jewish homeland in what is now Israel and Jordan., but that was prior to WWII.. Britain opposed jewish immigration after WWII. The UN created two countries, the Arabs refused to accept the UN resolution, and attacked Israel. When the dust settled, Israel controlled two-thirds of the palestinian land, and Jordan one third (the West Bank).
 
2012-11-16 12:26:42 PM

Purdue_Pete: Hamas... they are tricky. Putting a launch site near the playground makes the Jews be pretty damned accurate to avoid dead kids.

[kleinonline.wnd.com image 478x256]


Zeitoun. Huh. Massacre by IDF when they forced civilians into buildings that were later bombed by the IDF. Additionally, Zeitoun evidently is the first ground the IDF will head for if they invade that area of Gaza.
 
2012-11-16 12:27:16 PM

mynamebackwards: Penned up? I'm pretty sure the Palestinians are free to go anytime they wish. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that Israel would pick up their bus fare.


No other Arab country will take them. It's convenient to maintain Gaza as an example of Israeli evil.
 
2012-11-16 12:27:38 PM

The_Fuzz: mekki: Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw

Ah, yes, science. You know, what you use to make the rockets and bombs.

Anyone who thinks science is always peaceful and religion is always violent is an idiot. It's hard to keep wars going if all you have are stones that you've picked off the ground. That's where science kicks in and shows you all the new ways to kill people. Many where you are thousands of miles away and you don't even have to leave your desk.

That's one of the dumbest things I've read in an Middle East war thread in a long time.

There is "truth in the guns don't kill people, I do" bumper sticker. Here's a hint. People with knowledge and Science aren't going to kill people on their own. They need some sort of motivation. Hrmm, like, say, fanatical religions zealots? Ya, that'll do just fine.


Between the Eugenics movement, the Soviet Gulag system, and the Maoist Great Leap Forward, 'people with knowledge and science' managed to rack up a murder count around 75 million or so in the 20th century.

Fanaticism is a human problem, not a religious problem.
 
2012-11-16 12:27:51 PM

jagermech: bostonguy: /subby
// American Israeli who left Tel Aviv to crash at a friend's place in Jerusalem after hearing a rocket explode from his apartment
/// Isn't that ironic
//// No, not really, Alanis

Sorry. Fark keeps me company right now. :)

Stay safe, subby!


For real man--stay safe. This is pretty bad.
 
2012-11-16 12:28:22 PM

enigmaxx: Why does this warrant the use of the newsflash tag?

Also: 

[t2.gstatic.com image 250x202]



Because it is Israel, the most important country on earth, full of the most important people on earth.
 
2012-11-16 12:28:30 PM

liam76: Only an anti semite would accuse Israel of Genocide when the population in Gaza, and of arabs in ISrael is growing faster than the jewish population.


I could go with "deeply uninformed" as an alternative. If you just listen to US media, you might think that.
 
2012-11-16 12:29:42 PM

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Well, this is one way Israel will finally get to strike Iran. Looks like Bibi Butthead is going to suck us into another ME war.


content7.flixster.com
 
2012-11-16 12:29:43 PM

KellyX: Israel should just put the Palestinians into special camps, let them concentrate them all in one location...

That's what seems to be the prevailing desire from what I can gather...


You don't gather much. The Israeli position is "don't shoot at us, and we won't shoot back. If you do shoot at us, don't be surprised what happens then."
 
2012-11-16 12:30:21 PM
I sympathize with the Arab cause. I feel for the put-upon Jews. And I keep singing the middle class liberal, humanitarian, we are all responsible, well-intentioned blues.
 
2012-11-16 12:30:45 PM
Here's the quick history from what I posted in a prior thread. Note: No side -- the Jews, the Arabs, and the Palestinians are blameless (though some a lot more than others):

Quick history: There had always been some Jews living among the Arabs in the Ottoman Empire's province of Palestine for centuries. Starting in the nineteenth century, more and more Jews began moving to the region and buying land from Arabs or moving into empty, desolate, unused land. Eventually, after World War I and the British gaining control, the UN proposed splitting the area into a Jewish and an Arab state. The Jews agreed; the Arabs did not and declared war.

In the ensuing chaos of war, many Arabs ended up in what is now called the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Some of them left voluntarily either to avoid the war or under orders from the Arab leaders to get out of the way of the invading armies. Others were indeed forcibly expelled by the Haganah (what would become the IDF). It's impossible to know what percentage of the relocation was voluntary and involuntary. Anyway, it happened.

So, you had a bunch of Arabs in what were then parts of Jordan and Egypt. When those countries invaded Israel in 1967, Israel won and took those lands from the two countries for increased future security. Today, Jordan has said that it no longer wants the West Bank, and Egypt does not want Gaza. Under international law, the ownership of the land transferred to Israel because the original owners, the countries, gave up their claims.

Of course, those pieces of land still had a lot of the aforementioned Arabs and now their descendants. What to do? Answer that, and you'll get a Nobel Prize.
 
2012-11-16 12:31:08 PM

MaliFinn: and if Egypt actually follows through with their statement of support and also deploys forces in Gaza


When has this happened? When Hamas got too violent, Israel has entered several times and Egypt did nothing. It's not in Egypt's interest to engage Israel.
 
2012-11-16 12:31:14 PM

ChipNASA: [i.imgur.com image 630x380]


Can't be Israel. Whar is white phosphorous? Whar?
 
2012-11-16 12:31:28 PM

Baelz:
Hamas:
Step 1: Build Missile Launch site in apartment buildings, schools, hospitals, and mosques.
Step 2. Launch missiles at the hated Joos
Step 3. ????
Step 4. Die horribly when the Joos destroy the missile sites

There is no profit, unless you're the company selling the smart bombs, UAVs, fighter jets etc etc to the Joos.


While I sympathize with the point you're making, it's not entirely accurate. There is a lot of profit in it for Hamas, and virtually every other "group" over there. Just as we in the United States funds various groups to destabilize nations and areas, so do a lot of other governments and terrorist groups finance Hamas, et. al., to do whatever they can to destabilize the region.

Despite my absolute lack of respect for Hamas, I will speak a little bit of blasphemy and say we in the West are far too willing to ignore the good things they do. Those schools and hospitals that they've put the missiles in are in large part not there without their presence. They've done a lot to help the poor. But, as with anything, their more militant wing makes them look absolutely atrocious.

In other words, a lot like us, there's a part of Hamas that is actually good, and that the people there look up to, and that part has earned that respect. There's another part that is as awful as Al Qaeda and should indeed be on the official Terrorist list, and that's the one doing the shiat currently going on.

But, they're smart enough to play the media game now. Like any government, when they do something stupid/aggressive, they tend to blame it on "rogue groups" or "rogue employees." In that way, they're not significantly different from a bank, IMO.
 
2012-11-16 12:32:10 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Let's keep encroaching on the land we shoved these people off onto and see if we can't get sunshine and rainbows from them.

/what Israel seriously believes


Maybe they believe it because it's pretty much the history of every country ever.
 
2012-11-16 12:32:17 PM

Galloping Galoshes: wantingout: HotIgneous Intruder: oh good.

/Got all those weapons, might as well unleash them on the folks who've been penned up for two generations in a 141 square-mile concentration camp and are lashing out again.
//Genocide: It's OK when Israel does it.

///and only an anti-semite would disagree! :-)

It's not only Israel that keeps them in Gaza - Egypt doesn't want them, and no one else will take them. Israel has maintained a blockade on Gaza since Hamas began shooting at them from there. Israel's terms are pretty simple. Don't shoot at me, I won't shoot back.


It's a bit more complex than that with some families having lost farm land, business, the ability to conduct business and checkpoints. I'm not an expert on the topic. For further information, I'll have to refer you to this site as a starting point. Link You might also be interested in a related site Link
 
2012-11-16 12:32:32 PM

Headso: moops: Israel should now invade Gaza, and not leave until they've liquidated every single Hamas member.

how do you do that? with a centrifuge?


No silly. You use the centrifuge after liquidation, to separate the chunky bits from the gooey stuff.
 
2012-11-16 12:32:43 PM
 
2012-11-16 12:32:45 PM

bostonguy: Here's the quick history from what I posted in a prior thread. Note: No side -- the Jews, the Arabs, and the Palestinians are blameless (though some a lot more than others):

Quick history: There had always been some Jews living among the Arabs in the Ottoman Empire's province of Palestine for centuries. Starting in the nineteenth century, more and more Jews began moving to the region and buying land from Arabs or moving into empty, desolate, unused land. Eventually, after World War I and the British gaining control, the UN proposed splitting the area into a Jewish and an Arab state. The Jews agreed; the Arabs did not and declared war.

In the ensuing chaos of war, many Arabs ended up in what is now called the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Some of them left voluntarily either to avoid the war or under orders from the Arab leaders to get out of the way of the invading armies. Others were indeed forcibly expelled by the Haganah (what would become the IDF). It's impossible to know what percentage of the relocation was voluntary and involuntary. Anyway, it happened.

So, you had a bunch of Arabs in what were then parts of Jordan and Egypt. When those countries invaded Israel in 1967, Israel won and took those lands from the two countries for increased future security. Today, Jordan has said that it no longer wants the West Bank, and Egypt does not want Gaza. Under international law, the ownership of the land transferred to Israel because the original owners, the countries, gave up their claims.

Of course, those pieces of land still had a lot of the aforementioned Arabs and now their descendants. What to do? Answer that, and you'll get a Nobel Prize.


"Give 'em guns, step back, and watch 'em kill each other." -- Tupac Shakuir
 
2012-11-16 12:33:24 PM
ambarussa.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-11-16 12:34:55 PM

Lunaville: The My Little Pony Killer: Let's keep encroaching on the land we shoved these people off onto and see if we can't get sunshine and rainbows from them.

/what Israel seriously believes

Actually, the British shoved aside the Palestinians to form Israel with the consent of the USA. Palestine was British territory. To my knowledge, the only group that questioned the wisdom of shunting a huge percentage of Europes' Jewish population into Palestine at that time were the Quakers. And they didn't have really have an alternative solution to offer other than pushing to allow for more refugee entry into the United Kingdom and the United States which was hotly opposed at that time.

I do wonder why Hamas so rarely denounces Britain? And America? I mean, I know that they do, but by comparison to what they dump on Israel, it seems so subdued. Maybe it's a distance and perspective thing creating what is really, on my part, a misconception. It's hard to judge.


The British totally trolled the Palestinians. They were supposed to be given their independence following WWI, in exchange for the Palestinians rising up against the Ottomans. Instead, their land was given to the Israelis, and many have lived in camps for several generations in various other Muslim countries. They've been screwed for the last hundred years. Now they are being used as meatshields by Assad to keep Israel out of the Syrian civil war.
 
2012-11-16 12:35:15 PM

Galloping Galoshes: KellyX: Israel should just put the Palestinians into special camps, let them concentrate them all in one location...

That's what seems to be the prevailing desire from what I can gather...

You don't gather much. The Israeli position is "don't shoot at us, and we won't shoot back. If you do shoot at us, don't be surprised what happens then."


You seem to have missed out the rather critical "Don't you dare react as we steal your land, bulldoze your homes, perform a string of extra-judicial executions, kill your civilians, and destroy any chance of you operating a functional economy" first part of Israel's position.
 
2012-11-16 12:35:18 PM

Galloping Galoshes: MaliFinn: and if Egypt actually follows through with their statement of support and also deploys forces in Gaza

When has this happened? When Hamas got too violent, Israel has entered several times and Egypt did nothing. It's not in Egypt's interest to engage Israel.


It's a different Egyptian government that's more sympathetic to Hamas.
 
2012-11-16 12:35:39 PM

ChipNASA: TATS


The whiny little douche finally put the last active Farker on his hilariously oversized ignore list. When he next logged in and saw zero comments, he thought the place shut down and moved on.

That's my theory anyways.
 
2012-11-16 12:35:58 PM
The My Little Pony Killer


Let's keep encroaching on the land we shoved these people off onto and see if we can't get sunshine and rainbows from them.

/what Israel seriously believes

^ What r'tards who failed history actually believe.
 
2012-11-16 12:36:04 PM

gerrymander:
Fanaticism is a human problem, not a religious problem.


That's a load of crap. It's purely a religion problem. Just the other day I was arguing with another one of those Patriots fans (who all deserve to die -- they are evil!) about this. I don't understand how anyone who can like Tom Brady and Bill Belicheat can possibly think their opinion rises to be worth examining. It's a lot like farking Republicans and their whole party -- it's not much different from people who believe in universal health care in other countries! And don't get me started on those environmentalists. It's like they don't understand that we don't care about "evidence" and think this "reason" shiat is going to help. No, they're wrong, and that's that. I know because it's generally accepted, and that's what I was brought up with! Speaking of, this is the farking year of the Linux Desktop, whether anyone likes it or not -- Microsoft will be bankrupt in 2 months, and everyone will be running Ubuntu, even in their socks and shoes.
 
2012-11-16 12:36:07 PM

shastacola: The My Little Pony Killer: Let's keep encroaching on the land we shoved these people off onto and see if we can't get sunshine and rainbows from them.

/what Israel seriously believes

Maybe they believe it because it's pretty much the history of every country ever.


Really? Every country ever has had land handed to them by the foreign powers propping them up? I think you need to rethink your history lessons...
 
2012-11-16 12:36:13 PM

gerrymander: The_Fuzz: mekki: Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw

Ah, yes, science. You know, what you use to make the rockets and bombs.

Anyone who thinks science is always peaceful and religion is always violent is an idiot. It's hard to keep wars going if all you have are stones that you've picked off the ground. That's where science kicks in and shows you all the new ways to kill people. Many where you are thousands of miles away and you don't even have to leave your desk.

That's one of the dumbest things I've read in an Middle East war thread in a long time.

There is "truth in the guns don't kill people, I do" bumper sticker. Here's a hint. People with knowledge and Science aren't going to kill people on their own. They need some sort of motivation. Hrmm, like, say, fanatical religions zealots? Ya, that'll do just fine.

Between the Eugenics movement, the Soviet Gulag system, and the Maoist Great Leap Forward, 'people with knowledge and science' managed to rack up a murder count around 75 million or so in the 20th century.

Fanaticism is a human problem, not a religious problem.


Yes, but it isn't a "Science" problem, as was suggested. I stand by my point. Its not the science, its the people. They just need a motivation, as your examples suggest.
 
2012-11-16 12:36:36 PM

Galloping Galoshes: Lunaville: Actually, the British shoved aside the Palestinians to form Israel with the consent of the USA. Palestine was British territory. To my knowledge, the only group that questioned the wisdom of shunting a huge percentage of Europes' Jewish population into Palestine at that time were the Quakers. And they didn't have really have an alternative solution to offer other than pushing to allow for more refugee entry into the United Kingdom and the United States which was hotly opposed at that time.

Not particularly accurate. The Balfour declaration did call for a Jewish homeland in what is now Israel and Jordan., but that was prior to WWII.. Britain opposed jewish immigration after WWII. The UN created two countries, the Arabs refused to accept the UN resolution, and attacked Israel. When the dust settled, Israel controlled two-thirds of the palestinian land, and Jordan one third (the West Bank).


Yes, thank-you. Your statement is more clear than mine was. And, for those on the thread who think that only Israel is in the wrong; I think your statement helps to clarify that Israel has also suffered injustices.
 
2012-11-16 12:36:45 PM
www.veteranstoday.com

can't wait to see this..............
 
2012-11-16 12:37:23 PM

moops: Israel should now invade Gaza, and not leave until they've liquidated every single Hamas member.


You can't liquidate the dream of a Palestinian state unless you liquidate all the Palestinians. Hopefully you are not advocating genocide.
 
2012-11-16 12:37:35 PM

ChipNASA: Control + F "TATSUMA
(phrase not found)
/I miss old Super Jew.


They're only around when the Mossad let the collective known as Tatsuma loose. They'll be along soon enough. Or they've been blown up. Either way, shiat happens.
 
2012-11-16 12:38:01 PM

Spaced Cowboy: ChipNASA: TATS

The whiny little douche finally put the last active Farker on his hilariously oversized ignore list. When he next logged in and saw zero comments, he thought the place shut down and moved on.

That's my theory anyways.


Good riddance! Hope the door hit him on the way out, etc etc.
 
2012-11-16 12:38:20 PM

Spaced Cowboy: ChipNASA: TATS

The whiny little douche finally put the last active Farker on his hilariously oversized ignore list. When he next logged in and saw zero comments, he thought the place shut down and moved on.

That's my theory anyways.


The funny thing someone else said the other day was

"Oh, TATSUMA?!?!! I hacked his calendar and set it so every day was Saturday"

/I forget who said that but I LARFED!!!!
 
2012-11-16 12:38:46 PM
bostonguy
I don't flee when my home is being attacked.

// American Israeli


America is under attack??
 
2012-11-16 12:38:52 PM
First off, I hope Farker bostonguy stays safe and everything.

OK.

Now... I'd like to remind everyone else that it is not absolutely necessary for you to have a passionate, strongly held opinion on the Israel/Palestine conflict. In fact, it is your right to not give a fark, one way or the other.

Something to consider.
 
2012-11-16 12:39:28 PM
www.bangitout.com
 
2012-11-16 12:39:33 PM
Please, let's end the bullshiat now. HIT ALL OF THEM
 
2012-11-16 12:39:42 PM

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: nmemkha: Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worship the God of Abraham. They are literally fighting each other in the name of the same God.

But Abram came from Sumer and was a polytheist. Until he out-Sauled Saul of Tarsus. Why do people have to change teams??? What was so wrong with Marduk?


He was from Ur, specifically, which was the seat of worship for Sin, the moon god, not Marduk. That was Babylon.
 
2012-11-16 12:40:53 PM

BolloxReader: Lunaville: The My Little Pony Killer: Let's keep encroaching on the land we shoved these people off onto and see if we can't get sunshine and rainbows from them.

/what Israel seriously believes

Actually, the British shoved aside the Palestinians to form Israel with the consent of the USA. Palestine was British territory. To my knowledge, the only group that questioned the wisdom of shunting a huge percentage of Europes' Jewish population into Palestine at that time were the Quakers. And they didn't have really have an alternative solution to offer other than pushing to allow for more refugee entry into the United Kingdom and the United States which was hotly opposed at that time.

I do wonder why Hamas so rarely denounces Britain? And America? I mean, I know that they do, but by comparison to what they dump on Israel, it seems so subdued. Maybe it's a distance and perspective thing creating what is really, on my part, a misconception. It's hard to judge.

The British totally trolled the Palestinians. They were supposed to be given their independence following WWI, in exchange for the Palestinians rising up against the Ottomans. Instead, their land was given to the Israelis, and many have lived in camps for several generations in various other Muslim countries. They've been screwed for the last hundred years. Now they are being used as meatshields by Assad to keep Israel out of the Syrian civil war.


The English left because terrorists like Menachem Begin, head of the Irgun, blew up the Kind David Hotel, assassinated the UN Middle East envoy and threatened a terror campaign in the UK.

The Irgun was denounced by individuals like Albert Einstein and numerous Jewish organizations. To punish Begin, he was elected prime minister of Israel. Netanyahu's party is a direct descendant of the Irgun.
 
2012-11-16 12:41:56 PM
I predict this happening:

North Korea, feeling neglected, will do something stupid to South Korea since Israel is taking the spot light. Followed by something retarded in the South Pacific no one saw coming, which escalates into more violence in the Gaza Strip. Followed by inane propaganda from Russia that makes the US go all wtfbbq. This makes Europe all pissy because they're dealing with a crisis of the economic flavor of the month. Culminating in Iran giving the trollface to everyone that is an ally to their enemy.

Probably not in that order, but very likely.
 
2012-11-16 12:42:53 PM

kindms: This is BS.

Bibi f-ing assassinated the head of Hamas Security forces just the other day. That guy was working with others to get a ceasefire done. Bibi's extra judicial assassination is what touched off the latest round of fighting.

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/how-israel-shattered - gaza-truce-leading-escalating-death-and-tragedy-timeline



Electronic Intifada, huh? Sounds objective to me.

The revisionist history has already begun on this one. NOTHING WAS HAPPENING BEFORE THAT AIRSTRIKE!!! Ahmed Jabari was handing out Unicorn foals to orphans when he was targeted!
 
2012-11-16 12:43:58 PM
Are we at this step again? Someone wake me after Israel drives some tanks through playgrounds, but before the random suicide bombings start.
 
2012-11-16 12:44:10 PM

Malivon: I predict this happening:

North Korea, feeling neglected, will INVADE THE UNITED STATES and we will all be saved by blue eyed white teenagers with hunting rifles!


/FTFY
/sounds like the plot to a very bad movie to me.
 
2012-11-16 12:44:41 PM

Bungles: Galloping Galoshes: KellyX: Israel should just put the Palestinians into special camps, let them concentrate them all in one location...

That's what seems to be the prevailing desire from what I can gather...

You don't gather much. The Israeli position is "don't shoot at us, and we won't shoot back. If you do shoot at us, don't be surprised what happens then."

You seem to have missed out the rather critical "Don't you dare react as we steal your land, bulldoze your homes, perform a string of extra-judicial executions, kill your civilians, and destroy any chance of you operating a functional economy" first part of Israel's position.


While all of what you say is absolutely true, launching rockets pell-mell into Israel is not akin to marching to the sea to make salt. I can not imagine a worse possible way to deal with Israeli perpetuated injustices than resorting to violence.
 
2012-11-16 12:44:58 PM
 
2012-11-16 12:45:38 PM
Half of Jerusalem is Palestinian. Their crude, unguided, untargeted rockets are just as likely to kill Arabs as they are Jews.
 
2012-11-16 12:46:34 PM
okay I'm sorry to play this card but I was really just curious :P

Looked up Mitt Romney's Israel position, I remember his wonderful trip there and all. His website's been taken down but I got the cached copy.


http://www.mittromney.com/issues/israel (google cache)

Israel

Obama's Failure

President Obama and his administration have badly misunderstood the dynamics of the region. Instead of fostering stability and security, they have diminished U.S. authority and painted both Israel and ourselves into a corner. President Obama for too long has been in the grip of several illusions. One is that the Israeli-Palestinian dispute is the central problem in the region. This has been disproved repeatedly by events, most recently and most dramatically by the eruption of the Arab Spring. But it nonetheless led the President to explicitly state that his policy is to create "daylight" between the United States and Israel, believing that this would earn us credits in the Arab world and somehow bring peace closer. The record proves otherwise. The key to negotiating a lasting peace is an Israel that knows it will be secure.

The administration's errors extend in other directions as well. President Obama has repeatedly and unilaterally created new preconditions for restarting peace talks. The result has been to encourage Palestinians simply to hold out and wait for Washington to deliver more Israeli concessions on a silver platter. Why, after all, should the Palestinians even negotiate with Israel if the White House is pressuring Israel without extracting any price from the Palestinians in return?


D'oh ;)
 
2012-11-16 12:46:43 PM

Lunaville: While all of what you say is absolutely true, launching rockets pell-mell into Israel is not akin to marching to the sea to make salt. I can not imagine a worse possible way to deal with Israeli perpetuated injustices than resorting to violence.


To be rather blunt, it's all they have to work with. They don't have any negotiating power and can't affect anything economically, but they have guns and rockets.
 
2012-11-16 12:47:30 PM

vernonFL: Half of Jerusalem is Palestinian. Their crude, unguided, untargeted rockets are just as likely to kill Arabs as they are Jews.


This was my first thought, but Hamas doesn't care. If they did, they wouldn't site launchers near schools and hospitals. They're happy if they create more martyrs.
 
2012-11-16 12:47:35 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: shastacola: The My Little Pony Killer: Let's keep encroaching on the land we shoved these people off onto and see if we can't get sunshine and rainbows from them.

/what Israel seriously believes

Maybe they believe it because it's pretty much the history of every country ever.

Really? Every country ever has had land handed to them by the foreign powers propping them up? I think you need to rethink your history lessons...

Every border line in the Middle East was drawn by foriegn powers.
 
2012-11-16 12:47:55 PM

Spaced Cowboy: ChipNASA: TATS

The whiny little douche finally put the last active Farker on his hilariously oversized ignore list. When he next logged in and saw zero comments, he thought the place shut down and moved on.

That's my theory anyways.


One can only hope.
 
2012-11-16 12:48:41 PM

shastacola: Every border line in the Middle East was drawn by foriegn powers.


Parts of Africa are the same way, and they manage to live in peaceful harmony and.. oh..
 
2012-11-16 12:48:47 PM

RanDomino: bostonguy
I don't flee when my home is being attacked.

// American Israeli

America is under attack??


Created my account when I was living in Beantown.
 
2012-11-16 12:48:53 PM

Bungles: HotIgneous Intruder: oh good.

/Got all those weapons, might as well unleash them on the folks who've been penned up for two generations in a 141 square-mile concentration camp and are lashing out again.
//Genocide: It's OK when Israel does it.

"Never Forget" wasn't supposed to mean "so you can later apply those tactics yourself", Israel.


What tactics are those?

Or are you one of those morons who thinks that the boom in arab population there is "genocide"?
That thinks the improvement in literacy, life expectancy, and infant mortality are on par with Nazi "Ghettos"?
That sees no difference in strking back at people who launch rockets at your civilians and rounding peopel up solely based on religion for execution?
 
2012-11-16 12:49:07 PM
give me doughnuts
Gaza Strip population has tripled since 1995.

80% of the population is refugees.


bostonguy
Of course, those pieces of land still had a lot of the aforementioned Arabs and now their descendants. What to do? Answer that, and you'll get a Nobel Prize.

Either incorporate them as full citizens or let them have a viable state. Either of which can only be done unilaterally by Israel.


BolloxReader
The British totally trolled the Palestinians. They were supposed to be given their independence following WWI, in exchange for the Palestinians rising up against the Ottomans. Instead, their land was given to the Israelis

One of those many wonderful intractable internecine conflicts the British Empire left behind to ensure the locals would be too busy killing each other to come and get revenge- like Northern Ireland, India-Pakistan, half of Africa, arguably the American North vs South although US vs Canada may have been intended...
 
2012-11-16 12:49:16 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: That's the difference between Jews, Christians, and Muslims. Christians don't believe that The Law holds any sway over believers. Therefore holy sites are nice tourist attractions, but don't have any intrinsic spiritual value.



Sadly, that's not true for Christians inside Jerusalem. That conflict, however, is usually sorted out with brooms and fists.

Monks gone wild at Jesus' birth site
 
2012-11-16 12:49:54 PM

almandot: The administration's errors extend in other directions as well. President Obama has repeatedly and unilaterally created new preconditions for restarting peace talks. The result has been to encourage Palestinians simply to hold out and wait for Washington to deliver more Israeli concessions on a silver platter. Why, after all, should the Palestinians even negotiate with Israel if the White House is pressuring Israel without extracting any price from the Palestinians in return?


To be fair, the Obama administration is not the only one to do this. This behavior is likely due to the advice they're getting from the career staff at State.
 
2012-11-16 12:50:19 PM

muck4doo: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: nmemkha: Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worship the God of Abraham. They are literally fighting each other in the name of the same God.

But Abram came from Sumer and was a polytheist. Until he out-Sauled Saul of Tarsus. Why do people have to change teams??? What was so wrong with Marduk?

He was from Ur, specifically, which was the seat of worship for Sin, the moon god, not Marduk. That was Babylon.


I gotta see his birth certificate first. Otherwise, I'm betting on Kenya.
 
2012-11-16 12:50:36 PM

shastacola: Every border line in the Middle East was drawn by foriegn powers.


Add approved by UN vote.
 
2012-11-16 12:50:53 PM

Hack Patooey: Things Israeli heating up over there.

/from other thread


Oy veh.

bostonguy: /subby
// American Israeli who left Tel Aviv to crash at a friend's place in Jerusalem after hearing a rocket explode from his apartment
/// Isn't that ironic
//// No, not really, Alanis

Sorry. Fark keeps me company right now. :)


I can only imagine how nuts Ben Gurion Airport is getting right now.
 
2012-11-16 12:50:59 PM
Nothing say "holy land" like a bunch of farking idiots murdering each other over who gets to be THE Religion of Peace and Love.
 
2012-11-16 12:51:12 PM

BigNumber12: AverageAmericanGuy: That's the difference between Jews, Christians, and Muslims. Christians don't believe that The Law holds any sway over believers. Therefore holy sites are nice tourist attractions, but don't have any intrinsic spiritual value.


Sadly, that's not true for Christians inside Jerusalem. That conflict, however, is usually sorted out with brooms and fists.

Monks gone wild at Jesus' birth site


www.nypost.com

"I'm gonna beat you like a temple money changer!"
 
2012-11-16 12:52:06 PM

solitary: This land is mine, God gave this land to me!


That was worth the watch......


/just in case other Farkers roll by that link
 
2012-11-16 12:52:44 PM
Just to give people an objective feeling of what it feels like to be a random person in Israel. (And I've love to hear such similar, objective thoughts from anyone in Gaza.)

You hear a siren. You go to your safe room, the stairwell of your building, a local bomb shelter, or you lie on the ground against a south-facing wall and cover your head. You wait. A few minutes later, you hear a "boom." It will be loud or faint depending on how far away the impact was and whether it was a hit or an Iron Dome interception. You wait a few more minutes to be sure, and then you return to going about your daily life. Rinse and repeat.

If you live in the outskirts of the rocket range (at the moment), like in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv, this happens, say, once per day. If you live in Sderot or elsewhere close to Gaza, it happens every hour or every few hours.
 
2012-11-16 12:53:38 PM
My personal opinion is that we blow up every religious site in Jerusalem. Then the idiots won't have a religious excuse for their violence. It'll just be what it really is: financial, political, social, racial conflict.
 
2012-11-16 12:53:40 PM

Epicedion: Lunaville: While all of what you say is absolutely true, launching rockets pell-mell into Israel is not akin to marching to the sea to make salt. I can not imagine a worse possible way to deal with Israeli perpetuated injustices than resorting to violence.

To be rather blunt, it's all they have to work with. They don't have any negotiating power and can't affect anything economically, but they have guns and rockets.


Given the existence of organizations like Jews for Justice for Palestinians (Link), I think that view demonstrates a lack of imagination.
 
2012-11-16 12:53:50 PM

bostonguy: Just to give people an objective feeling of what it feels like to be a random person in Israel. (And I've love to hear such similar, objective thoughts from anyone in Gaza.)

You hear a siren. You go to your safe room, the stairwell of your building, a local bomb shelter, or you lie on the ground against a south-facing wall and cover your head. You wait. A few minutes later, you hear a "boom." It will be loud or faint depending on how far away the impact was and whether it was a hit or an Iron Dome interception. You wait a few more minutes to be sure, and then you return to going about your daily life. Rinse and repeat.

If you live in the outskirts of the rocket range (at the moment), like in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv, this happens, say, once per day. If you live in Sderot or elsewhere close to Gaza, it happens every hour or every few hours.


I bet its a lot like that in Gaza except their is no safe room or siren.
 
2012-11-16 12:54:17 PM

almandot: okay I'm sorry to play this card but I was really just curious :P

Looked up Mitt Romney's Israel position, I remember his wonderful trip there and all. His website's been taken down but I got the cached copy.


http://www.mittromney.com/issues/israel (google cache)

Israel

Obama's Failure

President Obama and his administration have badly misunderstood the dynamics of the region. Instead of fostering stability and security, they have diminished U.S. authority and painted both Israel and ourselves into a corner. President Obama for too long has been in the grip of several illusions. One is that the Israeli-Palestinian dispute is the central problem in the region. This has been disproved repeatedly by events, most recently and most dramatically by the eruption of the Arab Spring. But it nonetheless led the President to explicitly state that his policy is to create "daylight" between the United States and Israel, believing that this would earn us credits in the Arab world and somehow bring peace closer. The record proves otherwise. The key to negotiating a lasting peace is an Israel that knows it will be secure.

The administration's errors extend in other directions as well. President Obama has repeatedly and unilaterally created new preconditions for restarting peace talks. The result has been to encourage Palestinians simply to hold out and wait for Washington to deliver more Israeli concessions on a silver platter. Why, after all, should the Palestinians even negotiate with Israel if the White House is pressuring Israel without extracting any price from the Palestinians in return?

D'oh ;)


I am incredibly thankful now that Romney didn't win.

Romney would be doing his best to persuade Bibi into a ground invasion of Gaza.

Obama is doing his best to avoid that.
 
2012-11-16 12:54:50 PM

KellyX: Israel should just put the Palestinians into special camps, let them concentrate them all in one location...

That's what seems to be the prevailing desire from what I can gather...



Wow. At least Amos Quito has a brain, and is well-read on the subject.
 
2012-11-16 12:54:53 PM

Lunaville: Bungles: Galloping Galoshes: KellyX: Israel should just put the Palestinians into special camps, let them concentrate them all in one location...

That's what seems to be the prevailing desire from what I can gather...

You don't gather much. The Israeli position is "don't shoot at us, and we won't shoot back. If you do shoot at us, don't be surprised what happens then."

You seem to have missed out the rather critical "Don't you dare react as we steal your land, bulldoze your homes, perform a string of extra-judicial executions, kill your civilians, and destroy any chance of you operating a functional economy" first part of Israel's position.

While all of what you say is absolutely true, launching rockets pell-mell into Israel is not akin to marching to the sea to make salt. I can not imagine a worse possible way to deal with Israeli perpetuated injustices than resorting to violence.


I'm certainly not saying it's a sensible or moral reaction (it obviously isn't), it's a totally understandable and predictable reaction.

Any one of us here, if we we're born in Gaza, would only be one Israeli rocket killing our family away from strapping on an explosive vest.

There but for the Grace of God.
 
2012-11-16 12:55:04 PM

themindiswatching: Some of the rockets that have been used so far are Iranian made. Think Israel's going to use that as their excuse to bomb Iran?


that is exactly what I think.
 
2012-11-16 12:55:06 PM

Epicedion: shastacola: Every border line in the Middle East was drawn by foriegn powers.

Parts of Africa are the same way, and they manage to live in peaceful harmony and.. oh..


I can't believe you managed to type that far without spraying your monitor with whatever you're drinking.

/pass me that bottle.
 
2012-11-16 12:55:40 PM

nmemkha: bostonguy: Just to give people an objective feeling of what it feels like to be a random person in Israel. (And I've love to hear such similar, objective thoughts from anyone in Gaza.)

You hear a siren. You go to your safe room, the stairwell of your building, a local bomb shelter, or you lie on the ground against a south-facing wall and cover your head. You wait. A few minutes later, you hear a "boom." It will be loud or faint depending on how far away the impact was and whether it was a hit or an Iron Dome interception. You wait a few more minutes to be sure, and then you return to going about your daily life. Rinse and repeat.

If you live in the outskirts of the rocket range (at the moment), like in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv, this happens, say, once per day. If you live in Sderot or elsewhere close to Gaza, it happens every hour or every few hours.

I bet its a lot like that in Gaza except their is no safe room or siren.


That and Gaza doesn't have a missle defense system.

That being said, no one deserves to go through this and it doesn't help that both Israel and Gaza have dickbags for leaders.
 
2012-11-16 12:55:40 PM

MorrisBird: I sympathize with the Arab cause. I feel for the put-upon Jews. And I keep singing the middle class liberal, humanitarian, we are all responsible, well-intentioned blues.


Neither side will be satisfied until the other is gone. There are plenty of places where people need help more, like about half of Africa for starters.
 
2012-11-16 12:56:19 PM

Mrtraveler01: Hack Patooey: Things Israeli heating up over there.

/from other thread

Oy veh.

bostonguy: /subby
// American Israeli who left Tel Aviv to crash at a friend's place in Jerusalem after hearing a rocket explode from his apartment
/// Isn't that ironic
//// No, not really, Alanis

Sorry. Fark keeps me company right now. :)

I can only imagine how nuts Ben Gurion Airport is getting right now.


Probably not that busy, although I don't know because news organizations would likely censor themselves from reporting such facts in the middle of a war so as not to embolden the enemy. Also, Israelis are tough and such toughness is self-enforced -- they would criticize people for fleeing. I've had friends criticize me for just going from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. You want to go about your daily lives without changing anything as a result of terrorism.

Second, I can only imagine the price-gouging that would occur if Israelis were flying away. Knowing the salaries here, I doubt anyone could afford it. And we Jews are cheap. :)
 
2012-11-16 12:57:16 PM

Mrtraveler01: That being said, no one deserves to go through this and it doesn't help that both Israel and Gaza have dickbags for leaders.


On this point, I wholeheartedly agree. "Why we can't have nice things ..." and all that.
 
2012-11-16 12:57:16 PM

Lunaville: Given the existence of organizations like Jews for Justice for Palestinians (Link), I think that view demonstrates a lack of imagination.


The ASPCA lobbies for animal rights, but that doesn't mean that the animals themselves have any power to push for them.
 
2012-11-16 12:57:18 PM

BigNumber12: AverageAmericanGuy: That's the difference between Jews, Christians, and Muslims. Christians don't believe that The Law holds any sway over believers. Therefore holy sites are nice tourist attractions, but don't have any intrinsic spiritual value.


Sadly, that's not true for Christians inside Jerusalem. That conflict, however, is usually sorted out with brooms and fists.

Monks gone wild at Jesus' birth site


Oh, that's nice. I'm sure had Peter had a broom in hand rather than a sword when the soldiers came to arrest him, Jesus would have shouted "Yeah, kick his a$$ Peter! Come on, swing that broom: upper cut, upper cut!"
 
2012-11-16 12:57:19 PM

Mrtraveler01: That being said, no one deserves to go through this and it doesn't help that both Israel and Gaza have dickbags for leaders.


I'm curious, what alternative do you see Israeli leaders having when there's a group just over the border that keeps shooting at them?
 
2012-11-16 12:57:51 PM
With the thousands of years' worth of historical "I was here first" "No, I was here first, not you!" going on, I don't think an equitable solution is possible. I do think the US should get its nose out of that business, though.

Maybe this could all be settled by a cage fight to the death between Bibi and whoever is heading Hamas now. It seems this would be just as sensible as any other possible solution over there.
 
2012-11-16 12:58:48 PM

Galloping Galoshes: KellyX: Israel should just put the Palestinians into special camps, let them concentrate them all in one location...

That's what seems to be the prevailing desire from what I can gather...

You don't gather much. The Israeli position is "don't shoot at us, and we won't shoot back. If you do shoot at us, don't be surprised what happens then."


Cause yea, blowing up Hamas' military leader wouldn't count as not shooting first and the "No Fight Back!" rule applies as well.

Clearly Israel is the victim here...
 
2012-11-16 12:58:58 PM

Son of Thunder: Amurica


Hey, f*cktard....do you believe in fables and fairy tales? Oh, you do? That's cute. Enjoy defending religion then.....

/real history, how does it work?
 
2012-11-16 12:59:10 PM
So i get to enjoy a barrage of ultra conservatives on Facebook spamming me with SAVE ISREAL posts....damn it. I was beginning to like not having politics being discussed.
 
2012-11-16 12:59:27 PM

bostonguy: Probably not that busy, although I don't know because news organizations would likely censor themselves from reporting such facts in the middle of a war so as not to embolden the enemy. Also, Israelis are tough and such toughness is self-enforced -- they would criticize people for fleeing. I've had friends criticize me for just going from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. You want to go about your daily lives without changing anything as a result of terrorism.


Eh, good point. I'm surprised that countries haven't put Israel on the "Do Not Travel" list yet. But I guess as this continues to escalate, it'll happen soon. And then at that point, I think the foreign travelers will get out of Dodge.

bostonguy: Second, I can only imagine the price-gouging that would occur if Israelis were flying away. Knowing the salaries here, I doubt anyone could afford it. And we Jews are cheap. :)


See, if you say it it's ok. But if I say it... :P

/I LOL'D
 
2012-11-16 12:59:42 PM
Please correct me if I am wrong.

Hezbollah is classified as a terrorist group with ties to Iran.

Iran is Sunni Muslim. Even though the majority of the Middle East is shiate Muslim, the Muslim Holy Sites in Jerusalem are important to both sects, correct?

So, isn't Hezbollah taking a HUGE HUGE risk at aiming rockets at Jerusalem? If they would hit a Muslim Holy Site, they would pretty much be the #1 enemy in the Muslim world?

/Not trolling or going for snark. I want to make sure I have the right facts.
 
2012-11-16 12:59:52 PM

CokeBear: Hamas wants to ensure that Bibi is re-elected in the upcoming election. As a radical hardliner, he helps their cause immensely.

If a peacenik (or even moderate or slightly sane centrist) PM was elected in Israel, there is a huge risk to Hamas that peace could break out, which is obviously not in their interests.

So the logical thing for them to do is exactly what they are doing, be as threatening and aggressive as possible, in order to ensure that their fellow hard-line loonies stay in power in Israel. They recognize that the real threat to extremists is not the extremists on the other side, since they both see things in extreme black & white terms, they actually share most elements of their worldview.

No, the threat to hardliners is the mushy middle. The pacifists on both sides who would rather talk, and build schools, hospitals and make life better for Israelis and Palestinians. Where's the profit and power in that? You keep power by keeping people afraid.


Pretty much. These guys also really do hate each other so much (the radicals on both sides) that ANY peace is an affront to them. Heck, a cease fire is anathema to them. They're "freedom fighters" and "valiant defenders", which carries mystique and respect. They don't want to lose that, and will do whatever it takes to keep that recognition.

The only way to win is for the world to refuse to play with either nutty group. I know, our team likes X and the other team likes Y. I wonder how quickly these idiots would quit if both sides stopped getting outside help at all.
 
2012-11-16 12:59:54 PM

bostonguy: Just to give people an objective feeling of what it feels like to be a random person in Israel. (And I've love to hear such similar, objective thoughts from anyone in Gaza.)

You hear a siren. You go to your safe room, the stairwell of your building, a local bomb shelter, or you lie on the ground against a south-facing wall and cover your head. You wait. A few minutes later, you hear a "boom." It will be loud or faint depending on how far away the impact was and whether it was a hit or an Iron Dome interception. You wait a few more minutes to be sure, and then you return to going about your daily life. Rinse and repeat.

If you live in the outskirts of the rocket range (at the moment), like in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv, this happens, say, once per day. If you live in Sderot or elsewhere close to Gaza, it happens every hour or every few hours.


very glad not to have experienced anything bad when i was out there a couple times for camp back in high school. worst we got was the failed car bombing of the bank on ben yehuda street ('98). Other than the introduction to everyone walking around with machine guns(which airports post-9/11 sure reminded me of later on), our dorms felt a little eery with the fact they were down a staircase with a heavy, locked door.


Okay the IDF and Alqassam Brigade are now sending angry tweets back and forth?? I assume those are 'fake' accounts and not really government ones?:P
 
2012-11-16 01:00:20 PM
The real issue here is that Hamas wants to influence the Israeli election to keep Bibi in power. They are extremists, and the only thing they hate more than extreme right-wing Israelis are moderate/left-wing Israelis who might restart the peace process. Hamas (and Bibi) are enemies of peace, and share the objective of keeping the conflict going, and keeping each other in power.

Anyone other than Bibi winning the Israeli election would put Hamas' power at grave risk of being replaced by more moderate folks, as such, they are determined to enrage the Israeli population into re-electing Bibi and taking the risk of peace off the table.

The only question is: Will Israelis fall for it?
 
2012-11-16 01:00:27 PM

Hobodeluxe: themindiswatching: Some of the rockets that have been used so far are Iranian made. Think Israel's going to use that as their excuse to bomb Iran?

that is exactly what I think.


No. Different situation, much more complex.

You know, since I've heard that the US is going to be an oil exporter in the relatively near future, I think this Middle East thing might work itself out. As oil reserves decline there, no one will give as much of a crap about the Middle East, and all those religious and terror groups will find their money lifelines drying up.
 
2012-11-16 01:01:59 PM

Galloping Galoshes: Mrtraveler01: That being said, no one deserves to go through this and it doesn't help that both Israel and Gaza have dickbags for leaders.

I'm curious, what alternative do you see Israeli leaders having when there's a group just over the border that keeps shooting at them?


At this point, I think they have no choice but to do what they're doing.

Still Bibi has done nothing to achieve any form of peace with Gaza or the West Bank and is nothing more than a hard-line neocon. Which is why he supported folks like Romney.
 
2012-11-16 01:01:59 PM

KellyX: Galloping Galoshes: KellyX: Israel should just put the Palestinians into special camps, let them concentrate them all in one location...

That's what seems to be the prevailing desire from what I can gather...

You don't gather much. The Israeli position is "don't shoot at us, and we won't shoot back. If you do shoot at us, don't be surprised what happens then."

Cause yea, blowing up Hamas' military leader wouldn't count as not shooting first and the "No Fight Back!" rule applies as well.

Clearly Israel is the victim here...


Are you being deliberately obtuse, or just a troll? Hamas has been shooting rockets and mortars, and sending in guys with guns for months now. Even the US press reported that. Heck, even Al Jazeera mentioned it.
 
2012-11-16 01:03:24 PM

ChipNASA: solitary: This land is mine, God gave this land to me!

That was worth the watch......

/just in case other Farkers roll by that link


Yeah that was really well done.
 
2012-11-16 01:03:43 PM

RanDomino: give me doughnuts
Gaza Strip population has tripled since 1995.

80% of the population is refugees.


bostonguy
Of course, those pieces of land still had a lot of the aforementioned Arabs and now their descendants. What to do? Answer that, and you'll get a Nobel Prize.

Either incorporate them as full citizens or let them have a viable state. Either of which can only be done unilaterally by Israel.


BolloxReader
The British totally trolled the Palestinians. They were supposed to be given their independence following WWI, in exchange for the Palestinians rising up against the Ottomans. Instead, their land was given to the Israelis

One of those many wonderful intractable internecine conflicts the British Empire left behind to ensure the locals would be too busy killing each other to come and get revenge- like Northern Ireland, India-Pakistan, half of Africa, arguably the American North vs South although US vs Canada may have been intended...


That solution seems sensible, but every conceivable has seriously good points and seriously bad ones.

Full citizens (the "one-state solution") -- Guaranteed civil war within a few years, if not years

A Palestinian state (the "two-state solution") -- What happens if Hamas takes over the Palestinian state and is then within easy range in the West Bank of firing simple mortars at Tel Aviv and Ben-Gurion Airport and is capable of splitting the state in two at its thinnest point (something like ten miles, I think)? This is what Israelis need to think about in the long-term.

There is no easy answer because each proposed solution is potentially very good and very bad.
 
2012-11-16 01:05:18 PM

bostonguy: Full citizens (the "one-state solution") -- Guaranteed civil war within a few years, if not years


FTFM: "if not weeks>"
 
2012-11-16 01:05:39 PM

mekki: Anyone who thinks science is always peaceful and religion is always violent is an idiot. It's hard to keep wars going if all you have are stones that you've picked off the ground. That's where science kicks in and shows you all the new ways to kill people. Many where you are thousands of miles away and you don't even have to leave your desk.


A religion is only as peaceful / violent as it's worshipers and the current zeitgeist, and science is neither peaceful nor violent. Science is just a tool. You might as well say that slide ruler isn't always peaceful.
 
2012-11-16 01:06:24 PM

KellyX: Galloping Galoshes: KellyX: Israel should just put the Palestinians into special camps, let them concentrate them all in one location...

That's what seems to be the prevailing desire from what I can gather...

You don't gather much. The Israeli position is "don't shoot at us, and we won't shoot back. If you do shoot at us, don't be surprised what happens then."

Cause yea, blowing up Hamas' military leader wouldn't count as not shooting first and the "No Fight Back!" rule applies as well.

Clearly Israel is the victim here...


Who in their right mind defends Hamas?


http://www.hrw.org/node/110517
 
2012-11-16 01:06:29 PM

Epicedion: Lunaville: Given the existence of organizations like Jews for Justice for Palestinians (Link), I think that view demonstrates a lack of imagination.

The ASPCA lobbies for animal rights, but that doesn't mean that the animals themselves have any power to push for them.


Palestinians are not animals. They are human beings blessed with intelligence and imagination. Your profile doesn't make any statements about your personal beliefs. So, I'm going to risk suggesting that you read the book of Esther for inspiration on how someone, such as a woman during a decidedly non-feminist point in history, who is relatively devalued and powerless can be influential. There is no need to read it expecting to be converted if you do not approve of faith. Just read it as you would a piece of secular literature and ask yourself these questions. Is any adult every truly powerless? What does it mean to use the power one does have rather than decry the power one lacks? How might that work?

Please, accept my apology if my suggestion that you read a portion of a bible is offensive to you.
 
2012-11-16 01:07:04 PM
farm5.static.flickr.com

I AM ANGRY ABOUT THE ........*poof*.........
 
2012-11-16 01:07:12 PM

bostonguy: Full citizens (the "one-state solution") -- Guaranteed civil war within a few years, if not years


That and the political establishment won't allow it because it would dilute the Jewish majority. They've come out and said that a few times before.

The problem basically is that Israel wants the land of the Gaza and the West Bank but doesn't want the people who inhabit these areas.

There is no good side as they're both dicks as far as I'm concerned.
 
2012-11-16 01:07:45 PM

geom_00: Please correct me if I am wrong.

Hezbollah is classified as a terrorist group with ties to Iran.

Iran is Sunni Muslim. Even though the majority of the Middle East is shiate Muslim, the Muslim Holy Sites in Jerusalem are important to both sects, correct?

So, isn't Hezbollah taking a HUGE HUGE risk at aiming rockets at Jerusalem? If they would hit a Muslim Holy Site, they would pretty much be the #1 enemy in the Muslim world?

/Not trolling or going for snark. I want to make sure I have the right facts.


Not Hezbollah. Hamas, from Gaza. Also, Iran is predominantly Shia Muslim. The majority is Sunni. And IIRC, no, Jerusalem is not held holy by all sects. Don't quote me on that last, though.
And I'm sure muslims everywhere would find a way to rationalize around a hit on Al Quds.
 
2012-11-16 01:08:15 PM
garotasperversas.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-11-16 01:08:38 PM

ChipNASA: [bokertov.typepad.com image 480x303]

/stokes the fire


i75.photobucket.com

//stokin' it more.
 
2012-11-16 01:08:44 PM

shastacola: Who in their right mind defends Hamas?


Many Palestinians, who found Hamas and the help they provided superior to Al Fatah and their endemic corruption.
 
2012-11-16 01:09:03 PM

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Purdue_Pete: Hamas... they are tricky. Putting a launch site near the playground makes the Jews be pretty damned accurate to avoid dead kids.

[kleinonline.wnd.com image 478x256]

Zeitoun. Huh. Massacre by IDF when they forced civilians into buildings that were later bombed by the IDF. Additionally, Zeitoun evidently is the first ground the IDF will head for if they invade that area of Gaza.


Riiiiigggghhhhttt. Sounds legit.
 
2012-11-16 01:09:25 PM

Galloping Galoshes: Not Hezbollah. Hamas, from Gaza. Also, Iran is predominantly Shia Muslim


Thank you.
 
2012-11-16 01:09:28 PM
I'm so glad my IRR time in the army is up.
 
2012-11-16 01:09:44 PM

nmemkha: Malivon: I predict this happening:

North Korea, feeling neglected, will INVADE THE UNITED STATES and we will all be saved by blue eyed white teenagers with hunting rifles!

/FTFY
/sounds like the plot to a very bad movie to me.


Very bad movie is a bit of an understatement. It's unquestionably the stupidest premise in the history of Hollywood.
 
2012-11-16 01:10:13 PM

RanDomino: give me doughnuts
Gaza Strip population has tripled since 1995.

80% of the population is 4th generation refugees.



FTFY. There have been no new refugees since 1948.

RanDomino: Either incorporate them as full citizens or let them have a viable state. Either of which can only be done unilaterally by Israel.


You are going to keep ignoring what happened when they unilaterally pulled otu of Gaza aren't you?
 
2012-11-16 01:10:23 PM

Galloping Galoshes: When has this happened? When Hamas got too violent, Israel has entered several times and Egypt did nothing. It's not in Egypt's interest to engage Israel.


The times they are a-changing. Among other things, Mubarak is gone. Not sure whether the new rulers care about the peace bribeforeign aid Egypt gets from the US.
 
2012-11-16 01:10:55 PM

Mrtraveler01: bostonguy: Full citizens (the "one-state solution") -- Guaranteed civil war within a few years, if not years

That and the political establishment won't allow it because it would dilute the Jewish majority. They've come out and said that a few times before.

The problem basically is that Israel wants the land of the Gaza and the West Bank but doesn't want the people who inhabit these areas.

There is no good side as they're both dicks as far as I'm concerned.


That's why my personal solution would be to transfer to populations of Gaza and the West Bank to Egypt and Jordan, respectively. It's the only way to image peace if you are thinking decades down the road. Israel could also give the Palestinians money, grants, etc., to move. You have a secure Jewish state and the Palestinian people would have full rights within those Arab states (as they once did before their citizenship was revoked). But Egypt and Jordan would never allow this because, who wants a group of poor, uneducated, violence-prone people to enter their country en masse?

Under this idea, Israel would be a pariah for years, but it would be worth the peace decades down the road.

But it'll never happen.
 
2012-11-16 01:11:34 PM

solitary: This land is mine, God gave this land to me!


Brilliant
 
2012-11-16 01:11:40 PM

robohobo: [garotasperversas.files.wordpress.com image 300x247]


As a Buffy fan myself, I love that!
 
2012-11-16 01:11:59 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: That's the difference between Jews, Christians, and Muslims. Christians don't believe that The Law holds any sway over believers. Therefore holy sites are nice tourist attractions, but don't have any intrinsic spiritual value.


Bullshiat. If some group of people was shelling the Vatican I sincerely doubt the Catholics would "turn the other cheeks" and just go live somewhere else.
 
2012-11-16 01:12:19 PM

Uncle Tractor: Galloping Galoshes: When has this happened? When Hamas got too violent, Israel has entered several times and Egypt did nothing. It's not in Egypt's interest to engage Israel.

The times they are a-changing. Among other things, Mubarak is gone. Not sure whether the new rulers care about the peace bribeforeign aid Egypt gets from the US.


We'll know soon enough. I would bet against any Egyptian military action.
 
2012-11-16 01:12:32 PM

ChipNASA: solitary: This land is mine, God gave this land to me!

That was worth the watch......

/just in case other Farkers roll by that link


Yes. Yes it was.

/one smart to your post
//just to make sure
 
2012-11-16 01:12:58 PM

robohobo: [garotasperversas.files.wordpress.com image 300x247]


Great ,thanks to Robohobo, now I'm going to burn in hell.
 
2012-11-16 01:13:28 PM

Galloping Galoshes: shastacola: Who in their right mind defends Hamas?

Many Palestinians, who found Hamas and the help they provided superior to Al Fatah and their endemic corruption.


So the trains run on time.
 
2012-11-16 01:14:39 PM

Galloping Galoshes: You don't gather much. The Israeli position is "don't shoot at us, and we won't shoot back. If you do shoot at us, don't be surprised what happens then."


And the Palestinian position is "Give back the land you stole from us and stop bombing us and we won't need to shoot back!"
 
2012-11-16 01:15:28 PM
Part of me wishes either Israel or the Muslim world would just wipe the other one out so they would all just STFU.

That's probably politically incorrect though
 
2012-11-16 01:15:39 PM

geom_00: So, isn't Hezbollah taking a HUGE HUGE risk at aiming rockets at Jerusalem? If they would hit a Muslim Holy Site, they would pretty much be the #1 enemy in the Muslim world?


Interesting question.

When their rockets hit arab muslims the response is to celebrate them as Martyr's.

Mrtraveler01: The problem basically is that Israel wants the land of the Gaza and the West Bank but doesn't want the people who inhabit these areas.


If this is true why did they pull out?
 
2012-11-16 01:15:53 PM

SpectroBoy: Galloping Galoshes: You don't gather much. The Israeli position is "don't shoot at us, and we won't shoot back. If you do shoot at us, don't be surprised what happens then."

And the Palestinian position is "Give back the land you stole from us and stop bombing us and we won't need to shoot back!"


Enjoy your world view.
 
2012-11-16 01:16:28 PM

Lunaville: Palestinians are not animals.


If you don't understand the analogy, you could just say so. Going straight to a literal linkage instead of trying to understand the general similarity speaks to what appears to be a lack of critical thinking. Since you haven't gotten past that, I'll assume that whatever you have to say about the Bible is trite derp.
 
2012-11-16 01:17:13 PM

GrizzlyPouch: Part of me wishes either Israel or the Muslim world would just wipe the other one out so they would all just STFU.

That's probably politically incorrect though


I support this statement
 
2012-11-16 01:17:56 PM

The_Fuzz: mekki: Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw

Ah, yes, science. You know, what you use to make the rockets and bombs.

Anyone who thinks science is always peaceful and religion is always violent is an idiot. It's hard to keep wars going if all you have are stones that you've picked off the ground. That's where science kicks in and shows you all the new ways to kill people. Many where you are thousands of miles away and you don't even have to leave your desk.

That's one of the dumbest things I've read in an Middle East war thread in a long time.

There is "truth in the guns don't kill people, I do" bumper sticker. Here's a hint. People with knowledge and Science aren't going to kill people on their own. They need some sort of motivation. Hrmm, like, say, fanatical religions zealots? Ya, that'll do just fine.


No, because in the history of the world, scientists have never done any inhumane things just in the name of science. Mengele, The Tuskegee Syphilis Study and Unit 731 are figments of your imagination. And this little gem was from three days ago, EPA Charged With Lethal Experiments On Hundreds Of Unsuspecting Subjects. Where was the religion in those experiments?
 
2012-11-16 01:18:09 PM

detritus: Please, let's end the bullshiat now. HIT ALL OF THEM


* Glass Parking lot
* Develop oil rigs that drill through glass
* Profit
 
2012-11-16 01:18:11 PM

shastacola: Galloping Galoshes: shastacola: Who in their right mind defends Hamas?

Many Palestinians, who found Hamas and the help they provided superior to Al Fatah and their endemic corruption.

So the trains run on time.


I'm not endorsing them. They came in and provided food, medicine, schools, etc. The locals preferred that to what Fatah was (not) doing for them. Of course, there are these unfortunate side effects to that decision, such as military incursions and bombings because of Hamas' unfortunate habit of shooting at the neighbors.
 
2012-11-16 01:18:26 PM

shastacola: The My Little Pony Killer: shastacola: The My Little Pony Killer: Let's keep encroaching on the land we shoved these people off onto and see if we can't get sunshine and rainbows from them.

/what Israel seriously believes

Maybe they believe it because it's pretty much the history of every country ever.

Really? Every country ever has had land handed to them by the foreign powers propping them up? I think you need to rethink your history lessons...
Every border line in the Middle East was drawn by foriegn powers.


I'm not talking about drawn borders, I'm talking about actual support.
 
2012-11-16 01:19:01 PM

liam76: arabs in ISrael is growing faster than the jewish population.


In a way that's worse than a stable population, because Israel has severely limited the amount of water available to Palestinians, as well as farmland.
/look up how many wells ended up on the Israeli side of the wall
//UN has a report on it that I'm too lazy to google.
 
2012-11-16 01:19:03 PM

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: BolloxReader: Lunaville: The My Little Pony Killer: Let's keep encroaching on the land we shoved these people off onto and see if we can't get sunshine and rainbows from them.

/what Israel seriously believes

Actually, the British shoved aside the Palestinians to form Israel with the consent of the USA. Palestine was British territory. To my knowledge, the only group that questioned the wisdom of shunting a huge percentage of Europes' Jewish population into Palestine at that time were the Quakers. And they didn't have really have an alternative solution to offer other than pushing to allow for more refugee entry into the United Kingdom and the United States which was hotly opposed at that time.

I do wonder why Hamas so rarely denounces Britain? And America? I mean, I know that they do, but by comparison to what they dump on Israel, it seems so subdued. Maybe it's a distance and perspective thing creating what is really, on my part, a misconception. It's hard to judge.

The British totally trolled the Palestinians. They were supposed to be given their independence following WWI, in exchange for the Palestinians rising up against the Ottomans. Instead, their land was given to the Israelis, and many have lived in camps for several generations in various other Muslim countries. They've been screwed for the last hundred years. Now they are being used as meatshields by Assad to keep Israel out of the Syrian civil war.

The English left because terrorists like Menachem Begin, head of the Irgun, blew up the Kind David Hotel, assassinated the UN Middle East envoy and threatened a terror campaign in the UK.

The Irgun was denounced by individuals like Albert Einstein and numerous Jewish organizations. To punish Begin, he was elected prime minister of Israel. Netanyahu's party is a direct descendant of the Irgun.


I wonder what sort of conditions would drive a group of people to something like terrorism...
 
2012-11-16 01:19:18 PM

BigNumber12: KellyX: Israel should just put the Palestinians into special camps, let them concentrate them all in one location...

That's what seems to be the prevailing desire from what I can gather...


Wow. At least Amos Quito has a brain, and is well-read on the subject.


I'm just going by based on what a lot of my Israeli friends that actually live there are saying, there seems to be so much hatred for the Palestinians right now that I just don't see how the shiat isn't going to hit the fan when both sides seem to want it to happen.

Also I guess I should clarify that I don't agree with the reaction, but fark man, Israel has been trying to starve them out for years now, and then just early in the week killed Hamas' military leader and a bunch of civilians in the process... What did they think would happen? And now to act like they have the justification to invade and slaughter the Palestinians after basically starting the fight themselves?
 
2012-11-16 01:19:28 PM
i.chzbgr.com
 
2012-11-16 01:20:24 PM

mekki: No, because in the history of the world, scientists have never done any inhumane things just in the name of science. Mengele, The Tuskegee Syphilis Study and Unit 731 are figments of your imagination. And this little gem was from three days ago, EPA Charged With Lethal Experiments On Hundreds Of Unsuspecting Subjects. Where was the religion in those experiments?


Be careful of the god you worship.
 
2012-11-16 01:21:16 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Love and rockets.

It's almost as if Hamas is trying to lure Israel into a trap.


Love and Rockets?

cps-static.rovicorp.com
 
2012-11-16 01:21:54 PM

rthanu: nmemkha: Malivon: I predict this happening:

North Korea, feeling neglected, will INVADE THE UNITED STATES and we will all be saved by blue eyed white teenagers with hunting rifles!

/FTFY
/sounds like the plot to a very bad movie to me.

Very bad movie is a bit of an understatement. It's unquestionably the stupidest premise in the history of Hollywood.


I tend to think of it as more Right Wing porn than anything else. Yes, gun-loving bigoted redneck teenagers will save us from the yellow menace!
 
2012-11-16 01:22:10 PM

mekki: Mengele


Aaaaand Nazis. Shut it down, folks. Shut it all down.
 
2012-11-16 01:22:55 PM

FitzShivering: Baelz:
Hamas:
Step 1: Build Missile Launch site in apartment buildings, schools, hospitals, and mosques.
Step 2. Launch missiles at the hated Joos
Step 3. ????
Step 4. Die horribly when the Joos destroy the missile sites

There is no profit, unless you're the company selling the smart bombs, UAVs, fighter jets etc etc to the Joos.


While I sympathize with the point you're making, it's not entirely accurate. There is a lot of profit in it for Hamas, and virtually every other "group" over there. Just as we in the United States funds various groups to destabilize nations and areas, so do a lot of other governments and terrorist groups finance Hamas, et. al., to do whatever they can to destabilize the region.

Despite my absolute lack of respect for Hamas, I will speak a little bit of blasphemy and say we in the West are far too willing to ignore the good things they do. Those schools and hospitals that they've put the missiles in are in large part not there without their presence. They've done a lot to help the poor. But, as with anything, their more militant wing makes them look absolutely atrocious.

In other words, a lot like us, there's a part of Hamas that is actually good, and that the people there look up to, and that part has earned that respect. There's another part that is as awful as Al Qaeda and should indeed be on the official Terrorist list, and that's the one doing the shiat currently going on.

But, they're smart enough to play the media game now. Like any government, when they do something stupid/aggressive, they tend to blame it on "rogue groups" or "rogue employees." In that way, they're not significantly different from a bank, IMO.


And those rogue groups ARE to blame. The current round of this shiatstorm was that attacks had dropped to a few a month as Hamas held to the agreement but random "loose cannons" didn't. Israel finally decided, "elections are coming upenough is enough! The gloves come off and we slaughter these filthy animalsforce these people to see reason!" and started hitting hard.

'Cuz BTW, Israelis engage in attacks on Palestinians during "peacetime", it just rarely gets televised and gets labeled a "false flag op." Worse still, sometimes it IS a false flag op, but when everybody lies, CONSTANTLY, and no one wants to hunt the bomb-throwers, well-poisoners, and rogue snipers on their own side (among other things, they'll need them during the next "hot" period) it's impossible to sort.

To use Tatsuma's favorite (egregiously flawed and silly) example; If the US bombed the hell out of Mexico every couple of months over the cartel kidnappings, murders, and drug-running we'd look pretty weird too.
 
2012-11-16 01:23:54 PM

shastacola: KellyX: Galloping Galoshes: KellyX: Israel should just put the Palestinians into special camps, let them concentrate them all in one location...

That's what seems to be the prevailing desire from what I can gather...

You don't gather much. The Israeli position is "don't shoot at us, and we won't shoot back. If you do shoot at us, don't be surprised what happens then."

Cause yea, blowing up Hamas' military leader wouldn't count as not shooting first and the "No Fight Back!" rule applies as well.

Clearly Israel is the victim here...

Who in their right mind defends Hamas?


http://www.hrw.org/node/110517


Not about defending them, frankly don't give a shiat about them, but I can look at it from an outside perspective that if someone kills one of your leaders to not act all surprised when they retaliate and then try to justify wanting to invade based on that retaliation.

But honestly both sides want this fight... so fark it, just get it over with, just don't try to drag the United States into it if the rest of the Islamic/Arab world uses it to justify attacking Israel again.
 
2012-11-16 01:23:54 PM

liam76: geom_00: So, isn't Hezbollah taking a HUGE HUGE risk at aiming rockets at Jerusalem? If they would hit a Muslim Holy Site, they would pretty much be the #1 enemy in the Muslim world?

Interesting question.

When their rockets hit arab muslims the response is to celebrate them as Martyr's.

Mrtraveler01: The problem basically is that Israel wants the land of the Gaza and the West Bank but doesn't want the people who inhabit these areas.

If this is true why did they pull out?


For the same reason that most men want the property but not the people.
 
2012-11-16 01:24:22 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: The English left because terrorists like Menachem Begin, head of the Irgun, blew up the Kind David Hotel, assassinated the UN Middle East envoy and threatened a terror campaign in the UK.

The Irgun was denounced by individuals like Albert Einstein and numerous Jewish organizations. To punish Begin, he was elected prime minister of Israel. Netanyahu's party is a direct descendant of the Irgun.


What arrant nonsense. The British left because their League of Nations mandate ran out. Begin was not elected prime minister; you obviously don't know how Israel's parlimentary system works. The Labor party lost support because of a number of circumstances. Begin headed the major alternative, and was able to put together a working coalition. He was such an evil guy he negotiated with Sadat and returned the Sinai.
 
2012-11-16 01:25:06 PM

nmemkha: It's unquestionably the stupidest premise in the history of Hollywood.


I think you may underestimate them.
 
2012-11-16 01:26:05 PM

mekki: The_Fuzz: mekki: Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw

Ah, yes, science. You know, what you use to make the rockets and bombs.

Anyone who thinks science is always peaceful and religion is always violent is an idiot. It's hard to keep wars going if all you have are stones that you've picked off the ground. That's where science kicks in and shows you all the new ways to kill people. Many where you are thousands of miles away and you don't even have to leave your desk.

That's one of the dumbest things I've read in an Middle East war thread in a long time.

There is "truth in the guns don't kill people, I do" bumper sticker. Here's a hint. People with knowledge and Science aren't going to kill people on their own. They need some sort of motivation. Hrmm, like, say, fanatical religions zealots? Ya, that'll do just fine.

No, because in the history of the world, scientists have never done any inhumane things just in the name of science. Mengele, The Tuskegee Syphilis Study and Unit 731 are figments of your imagination. And this little gem was from three days ago, EPA Charged With Lethal Experiments On Hundreds Of Unsuspecting Subjects. Where was the religion in those experiments?


I guess you are going to have to be satisfied with missing my point. Those are issues created by people, not science. Science can't make decisions. I used religion as an example but any individual or group with a motivation can pervert whatever is at their fingertips. Blaming their actions on science is as ridiculous as blaming it on the air they breath, or the water they drink.
 
2012-11-16 01:27:19 PM

rthanu: nmemkha: Malivon: I predict this happening:

North Korea, feeling neglected, will INVADE THE UNITED STATES and we will all be saved by blue eyed white teenagers with hunting rifles!

/FTFY
/sounds like the plot to a very bad movie to me.

Very bad movie is a bit of an understatement. It's unquestionably the stupidest premise in the history of Hollywood.


Stupidest premise in the history of Hollywood so far.
 
2012-11-16 01:28:29 PM

MaliFinn: For the same reason that most men want the property but not the people


How does pulling out get them the property?
 
2012-11-16 01:29:03 PM
RULES OF ENGAGEMENT :

10 When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.

11 And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.

12 And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:

13 And when the Lord thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:

14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the Lord thy God hath given thee.

15 Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.

16 But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:

17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee:

18 That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the Lord your God.

19 When thou shalt besiege a city a long time, in making war against it to take it, thou shalt not destroy the trees thereof by forcing an axe against them: for thou mayest eat of them, and thou shalt not cut them down (for the tree of the field is man's life) to employ them in the siege:

20 Only the trees which thou knowest that they be not trees for meat, thou shalt destroy and cut them down; and thou shalt build bulwarks against the city that maketh war with thee, until it be subdued.

Deuteronomy 20


Just a bit of context to help understand the mindset.


/Gaza is a "thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth" city
 
2012-11-16 01:29:04 PM

MaliFinn: liam76: geom_00: So, isn't Hezbollah taking a HUGE HUGE risk at aiming rockets at Jerusalem? If they would hit a Muslim Holy Site, they would pretty much be the #1 enemy in the Muslim world?

Interesting question.

When their rockets hit arab muslims the response is to celebrate them as Martyr's.

Mrtraveler01: The problem basically is that Israel wants the land of the Gaza and the West Bank but doesn't want the people who inhabit these areas.

If this is true why did they pull out?

For the same reason that most men want the property but not the people.


Actually, nobody wants the land or the people. Israel has never, even in biblical times, held Gaza. It offers nothing geographically. And Egypt doesn't want that headache either.
 
2012-11-16 01:29:26 PM

CokeBear: The real issue here is that Hamas wants to influence the Israeli election to keep Bibi in power. They are extremists, and the only thing they hate more than extreme right-wing Israelis are moderate/left-wing Israelis who might restart the peace process. Hamas (and Bibi) are enemies of peace, and share the objective of keeping the conflict going, and keeping each other in power.

Anyone other than Bibi winning the Israeli election would put Hamas' power at grave risk of being replaced by more moderate folks, as such, they are determined to enrage the Israeli population into re-electing Bibi and taking the risk of peace off the table.

The only question is: Will Israelis fall for it?


Any reason you continue to make this exact same post over and over in the same thread ?

Bibi assassinated their guy. So Bibi decided to piss off hamas right before the election. So what makes more sense bibi kills guy knowing what the reaction will be just before the election. The reaction that you site above that helps him and his party.

Or Hamas just randomly decides to start shiat right before the election and it just so happens one of their top guys was assassinated ?
 
2012-11-16 01:29:49 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: [s3.vidimg02.popscreen.com image 480x360]

would have sucked to be in a Quiznos cup when the bomb came


Useless trivia: That picture was taken at Chatsworth Street and Zelzah Avenue in Granada Hills. Behind the 'Granada Hills' sign is a Vietnam Memorial listing names of those from the area who served during the war.
 
2012-11-16 01:30:01 PM

SpectroBoy: Galloping Galoshes: You don't gather much. The Israeli position is "don't shoot at us, and we won't shoot back. If you do shoot at us, don't be surprised what happens then."

And the Palestinian position is "Give back the land you stole from us and stop bombing us and we won't need to shoot back!"


These two statements really are the heart of the conflict. What if there was an attempt to create a plan that would be acceptable to both sides? Trying to draw on many of the ideas presented by other people up thread, I propose the following as a starting point.

1. Each European Union country, the United Kingdom, the United States of America, Canada, and Australia each agree to accept 40,000 refugees from Palestine above the number they currently accept each year.
2. Nations surrounding Israel are pressured via the UN, a media campaign, and, if necessary economic sanctions into accepting the remaining Palestinians into their nations with full citizenship rights.
3. The UN oversees a resettlement fund supported by all participating UN countries and authorized to accept private donations. The fund would provide each family an extremely modest home on, let's say, an 1/8th acre of land and a one year monthly food stipend equivalent to $30 dollars per person to allow time for these people to get on their feet and become self-supporting.
4. All military aid is ended to the entire region, including Israel. Humanitarian aid may be continued provided it is not converted to military use.
 
2012-11-16 01:31:19 PM

SurfaceTension: You know, if only Israel had performed airstrikes this week in Gaza and killed the leader of the military portion of Hamas, maybe this wouldn't have happened.

/oh, wait
//don't worry, Israel, you'll strike back and THAT time, for sure, without a doubt, will work because it has to at SOME point, right?
///how about trying something different for a change?


You know, people always trot out this same exact statement, over and over, and it's farking retarded:

1) Israel has been not striking back after HUNDREDS of rocket attacks prior to what was obviously the proverbial straw on the camel's back - how's that for "different" and "peace-seaking?" Just because the international media essentially ignores posting anything about the ongoing barrage of rockets, cross-border infiltrations and attacks from Gaza anywhere forward of "page 10 in the paper" (in a 1 paragraph blurb) doesn't mean they don't happen.

Do some farking research or pay more attention, and quit posting that little 4-month span of "only a few rockets" chart from 2008 - you know, 4½ YEARS AGO? Read. Through. These. Articles. about the 2500+ ROCKETS AND MORTARS FIRED SINCE THAT FARKING CHART. And that chart spiked because it never hit 0 to begin with.

2) The "You know the Palestinians are going to fire rockets at you some more, Israel, so why don't you try something different?" argument also begs the question that the Palestinians have no other choice but to spend their money and time to build more rockets to fire at civilians, no matter how much their aim sucks. Why do you idiots who claim Israel's the one who has to try new tactics (which they've done, multiple times) treat the Palestinians like they are some dumb animals who only respond to impulse with violence... aren't they people too, who can choose to "try something different?" Why do you useful idiots continually not give the Palestinians the benefit of the doubt that they too can choose to invest in peace instead of war?

Their leaders, Hamas, who they elected, who then proceeded to kill off Fatah (who runs the West Bank) members to gain total power in Gaza, are the worst enemies of any rational, peace-seeking Gazan Palestinian. But you farking morons don't ever assume these people have any free will of their own, except to fight Israel. How about they fight Hamas who turns their lives into total shiat, instead? Why do you never provide THAT as a "try something else" option for the region?

I suspect it's because, for most of you, you'd applaud the day where the only stable, prosperous, technologically-advanced, multi-ethnical and diverse-religion (there are over 1 million Muslim citizens in Israel, 16+% of population, who enjoy full rights under law) democracy in the entire middle east were forced to collapse. Just go ahead and admit it (well, many of you do).

Quit treating the Palestinians like dumb brutes with no options of their own just so you can justify supporting your desire to see Israel gone one day.

/rant
 
2012-11-16 01:32:36 PM

CokeBear: "If a peacenik (or even moderate or slightly sane centrist) PM was elected in Israel, there is a huge risk to Hamas that peace could break out..."



Yeah...because that's exactly what "broke out" in 1993-5 (Rabin) and 2000 (Barak). The rest of your post was a needlessly long follow-on to an utterly bullshiat premise.
 
2012-11-16 01:32:59 PM

Epicedion: Lunaville: Palestinians are not animals.

If you don't understand the analogy, you could just say so. Going straight to a literal linkage instead of trying to understand the general similarity speaks to what appears to be a lack of critical thinking. Since you haven't gotten past that, I'll assume that whatever you have to say about the Bible is trite derp.


I understood the analogy. I felt it was inaccurate.
 
2012-11-16 01:35:16 PM
bostonguy
Full citizens (the "one-state solution") -- Guaranteed civil war within a few years, if not years

Explain

A Palestinian state (the "two-state solution") -- What happens if Hamas takes over the Palestinian state and is then within easy range in the West Bank of firing simple mortars at Tel Aviv and Ben-Gurion Airport and is capable of splitting the state in two at its thinnest point (something like ten miles, I think)? This is what Israelis need to think about in the long-term.

Suck it up until the construction boom hits and everyone in Palestine is too busy making paper to want to screw around with that stupid crap anymore.
And I doubt there would be much of a problem with maintaining a military presence in the Judaean Mountains.
 
2012-11-16 01:36:56 PM
let hope they hit the dome of the rock
 
2012-11-16 01:39:08 PM

Amos Quito: /Gaza is a "thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth" city


Gaza is not only a city. Gaza, Askelon, Ashdod, and Ekron were the four Philistine cities that lay on the coast (Gath was inland). Gaza and Ashdod were never conquered; Askelon and Ekron were, but were returned shortly thereafter. Based on other narrative, I doubt that either of them were put to the sword as directed. The Jews just never listened, even then.
 
2012-11-16 01:39:36 PM

RanDomino: give me doughnuts
Gaza Strip population has tripled since 1995.

80% of the population is refugees.


Only if you, like the UN, count the children and grandchildren of refugees displaced before 1948 (and a few more in 1967) as refugees.

For everywhere except Palestine, the UN's definition of refugee is Individuals who:

-are outside their country of nationality or habitual residence;
- have a well-founded fear of persecution because of their race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group or political opinion; and
-are unable or unwilling to avail themselves of the protection of that country, or to return there, for fear of persecution.


Not the children or grandchildren of those individuals. If you want to blame somebody for the plight of the Palestinians, blame Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria.
 
2012-11-16 01:40:17 PM

Lunaville: I understood the analogy. I felt it was inaccurate.


Group A has all the power. Group B has no power. A small subsection of Group A lobbies for better treatment of Group B. You said this shows that Group B has power, which is false.

The only power the Palestinians have is guns and rockets. They're not going to get together and vote Israel into taking care of their needs. They're not going to build their own country in which they can make their own decisions. They're going to sit there and make a fuss until groups with actual power either back them into acquiring real power, incorporate them into the general population and afford them rights as equals, or blow everything up.

Sadly, it's trending toward "blow everything up."
 
2012-11-16 01:40:31 PM

Lunaville: SpectroBoy: Galloping Galoshes: You don't gather much. The Israeli position is "don't shoot at us, and we won't shoot back. If you do shoot at us, don't be surprised what happens then."

And the Palestinian position is "Give back the land you stole from us and stop bombing us and we won't need to shoot back!"

These two statements really are the heart of the conflict. What if there was an attempt to create a plan that would be acceptable to both sides? Trying to draw on many of the ideas presented by other people up thread, I propose the following as a starting point.

1. Each European Union country, the United Kingdom, the United States of America, Canada, and Australia each agree to accept 40,000 refugees from Palestine above the number they currently accept each year.
2. Nations surrounding Israel are pressured via the UN, a media campaign, and, if necessary economic sanctions into accepting the remaining Palestinians into their nations with full citizenship rights.
3. The UN oversees a resettlement fund supported by all participating UN countries and authorized to accept private donations. The fund would provide each family an extremely modest home on, let's say, an 1/8th acre of land and a one year monthly food stipend equivalent to $30 dollars per person to allow time for these people to get on their feet and become self-supporting.
4. All military aid is ended to the entire region, including Israel. Humanitarian aid may be continued provided it is not converted to military use.


Hey, at least you're trying.
 
2012-11-16 01:42:27 PM

kindms: Bibi assassinated their guy. So Bibi decided to piss off hamas right before the election. So what makes more sense bibi kills guy knowing what the reaction will be just before the election. The reaction that you site above that helps him and his party.

Or Hamas just randomly decides to start shiat right before the election and it just so happens one of their top guys was assassinated ?


I'd go with you except that Hamas' leader was killed as the result of a fairly long game Israel was playing to bring him out in the open. I think the timing was more coincidental, but convenient for Israel. He poked his head out of his hole at the wrong time.
 
2012-11-16 01:44:18 PM

Seraphym: Quit treating the Palestinians like dumb brutes with no options of their own just so you can justify supporting your desire to see Israel gone one day.


Wow. I just subscribe it to ignorance,willful or otherwise, not deliberate antisemitism.
 
2012-11-16 01:45:18 PM

spmkk: CokeBear: "If a peacenik (or even moderate or slightly sane centrist) PM was elected in Israel, there is a huge risk to Hamas that peace could break out..."


Yeah...because that's exactly what "broke out" in 1993-5 (Rabin) and 2000 (Barak). The rest of your post was a needlessly long follow-on to an utterly bullshiat premise.


Don't confuse him with history and facts. PETA might get after you.
 
2012-11-16 01:47:41 PM

Cynicism101: liam76: arabs in ISrael is growing faster than the jewish population.

In a way that's worse than a stable population, because Israel has severely limited the amount of water available to Palestinians, as well as farmland.
/look up how many wells ended up on the Israeli side of the wall
//UN has a report on it that I'm too lazy to google.


Darn those Israelis for not building enough pipelines, and not supplying even more water to he Gaza Strip.

Too bad those 3000 greenhouses that American Jewish donor bought from Isarali settlers and gave to the Palestinian Authority got looted ad stripped to the ground. I wonder how much food they could have grown?
 
2012-11-16 01:47:59 PM

liam76: Amos Quito: /Gaza is a "thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth" city

Those all powerful scheming Zionists sure are not doing well at this whole genocide thing you are accusing them of.

Why do you think it was so easy for them to pull off during the Holocaust when Gaza is such a tough nut to crack?


I'm confused. How is conflict with Hamas in Gaza genocide? Did the other 300 million arabs and 2 billion muslims fall off the earth, and this is all that's left? And if it's genocide, why does the IDF go to some length to avoid civilian casualties?
 
2012-11-16 01:48:43 PM

Galloping Galoshes: Seraphym: Quit treating the Palestinians like dumb brutes with no options of their own just so you can justify supporting your desire to see Israel gone one day.

Wow. I just subscribe it to ignorance,willful or otherwise, not deliberate antisemitism.


Ascribe. Ascribe. What an idiot.
 
2012-11-16 01:49:57 PM

ChipNASA: [bokertov.typepad.com image 480x303]

/stokes the fire


b-b-b-but the JEWS!
 
2012-11-16 01:50:38 PM
<b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7438027/80737255#c80737255" target="_blank">bostonguy</a>:</b> <i>Since a certain Farker who's name I won't mention isn't here because of Shabbat, I'll try to keep people updated. This former journalist will try to be neutral, but I have an obvious personal interest. :).</i>

Thanks, and accept my "me too" to your "stay safe" list. Good luck, we're all counting on you.
/Altogether?
 
2012-11-16 01:50:53 PM

FitzShivering: Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw

I bet you'd get pretty upset if they launched a missile at the Large Hadron Collider, though. :D


Yes. Because that's actually WORTH something.
 
2012-11-16 01:51:20 PM
bostonguy
That's why my personal solution would be to transfer to populations of Gaza and the West Bank to Egypt and Jordan, respectively.

The terrifying part is that this opinion is probably pretty mainstream in Israel.


Seraphym
Do some farking research or pay more attention, and quit posting that little 4-month span of "only a few rockets" chart from 2008 - you know, 4½ YEARS AGO? Read. Through. These. Articles. about the 2500+ ROCKETS AND MORTARS FIRED SINCE THAT FARKING CHART. And that chart spiked because it never hit 0 to begin with.

The point is that Hamas and Israel made the cease-fire on the condition that Israel ease the blockade, which didn't happen. Hamas held up their end and Israel didn't.

2) The "You know the Palestinians are going to fire rockets at you some more, Israel, so why don't you try something different?" argument also begs the question that the Palestinians have no other choice but to spend their money and time to build more rockets to fire at civilians,

Israel has the overwhelming monopoly of force and effective total control. There is nothing the Palestinians can do that can seriously affect Israel.

Their leaders, Hamas, who they elected, who then proceeded to kill off Fatah (who runs the West Bank) members to gain total power in Gaza,

after winning the election, which Fatah refused to recognize

How about they fight Hamas who turns their lives into total shiat, instead?
...
Quit treating the Palestinians like dumb brutes with no options of their own


and yet it's the Israel-apologists who are always saying Israel is "forced" to do airstrikes and the blockade.
 
2012-11-16 01:53:33 PM

Galloping Galoshes: Lunaville: SpectroBoy: Galloping Galoshes: You don't gather much. The Israeli position is "don't shoot at us, and we won't shoot back. If you do shoot at us, don't be surprised what happens then."

And the Palestinian position is "Give back the land you stole from us and stop bombing us and we won't need to shoot back!"

These two statements really are the heart of the conflict. What if there was an attempt to create a plan that would be acceptable to both sides? Trying to draw on many of the ideas presented by other people up thread, I propose the following as a starting point.

1. Each European Union country, the United Kingdom, the United States of America, Canada, and Australia each agree to accept 40,000 refugees from Palestine above the number they currently accept each year.
2. Nations surrounding Israel are pressured via the UN, a media campaign, and, if necessary economic sanctions into accepting the remaining Palestinians into their nations with full citizenship rights.
3. The UN oversees a resettlement fund supported by all participating UN countries and authorized to accept private donations. The fund would provide each family an extremely modest home on, let's say, an 1/8th acre of land and a one year monthly food stipend equivalent to $30 dollars per person to allow time for these people to get on their feet and become self-supporting.
4. All military aid is ended to the entire region, including Israel. Humanitarian aid may be continued provided it is not converted to military use.

Hey, at least you're trying.


It's deeply flawed though. My proposal assumes, without warrant, that the entirety of the Palestinian population is willing to relocate and adopt a new national identity. It overlooks that the fact that many Palestinians are or were farmers. How is a person supposed to farm olives on an 1/8th acre of land? Someone out there has to have a better idea.
 
2012-11-16 01:56:00 PM
give me doughnuts
-are outside their country of nationality or habitual residence;

how the fark does this not apply 

anyway I know you're full of shiat because there are Hmong people living in refugee camps in Thailand who are second-generation residents and are still considered refugees
 
2012-11-16 01:56:13 PM

BigNumber12: kindms


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/15/assassinating-the-ch a nce-for-calm.html

How about the dailybeast ?
 
2012-11-16 01:57:24 PM

Lunaville: 1. Each European Union country, the United Kingdom, the United States of America, Canada, and Australia each agree to accept 40,000 refugees from Palestine above the number they currently accept each year.

Hamas and the PA won't agree to this.

2. Nations surrounding Israel are pressured via the UN, a media campaign, and, if necessary economic sanctions into accepting the remaining Palestinians into their nations with full citizenship rights.
None of the nations surrounding Israel will agree to this. "Our poor mistreated Palestinian brothers" are far too useful politically right where they are to actually help.
 
2012-11-16 01:57:34 PM

give me doughnuts: Cynicism101: liam76: arabs in ISrael is growing faster than the jewish population.

In a way that's worse than a stable population, because Israel has severely limited the amount of water available to Palestinians, as well as farmland.
/look up how many wells ended up on the Israeli side of the wall
//UN has a report on it that I'm too lazy to google.

Darn those Israelis for not building enough pipelines, and not supplying even more water to he Gaza Strip.

Too bad those 3000 greenhouses that American Jewish donor bought from Isarali settlers and gave to the Palestinian Authority got looted ad stripped to the ground. I wonder how much food they could have grown?


The source of the water ended up, largely, on the Israeli side. I don't know how much water could have been grown in 3000 greenhouses without water. I'm guessing not very much.
 
2012-11-16 01:57:48 PM
Well it looks like Israel is going to be redeveloping another part of their country with some 30k - 75k government employees.

Hamas really doesn't have the interests of gazians (?) at mind anymore. Israel is going to find anything that isn't a firecracker and destroy it.
 
2012-11-16 01:59:12 PM

give me doughnuts: Lunaville: 1. Each European Union country, the United Kingdom, the United States of America, Canada, and Australia each agree to accept 40,000 refugees from Palestine above the number they currently accept each year.
Hamas and the PA won't agree to this.

2. Nations surrounding Israel are pressured via the UN, a media campaign, and, if necessary economic sanctions into accepting the remaining Palestinians into their nations with full citizenship rights.
None of the nations surrounding Israel will agree to this. "Our poor mistreated Palestinian brothers" are far too useful politically right where they are to actually help.


Yes, it is certainly a difficulty. I'm not sure it's insurmountable with properly applied pressure.
 
2012-11-16 02:00:35 PM

KellyX: and then just early in the week killed Hamas' military leader and a bunch of civilians in the process... What did they think would happen? And now to act like they have the justification to invade and slaughter the Palestinians after basically starting the fight themselves?



You're right, Israel should be writing Hamas a Thank-You note for each aerial delivery of precious construction materials like plumbing piping and fertilizer that they send.
 
2012-11-16 02:00:36 PM

solitary: This land is mine, God gave this land to me!



Excellent.

Had to re-link.

/Lyrics by Pat Boone?
//Sung by Andy Williams?
///Nina Paley made it all make sense.
 
2012-11-16 02:01:59 PM
i.imgur.com

/just in case you missed it the other day
 
2012-11-16 02:02:39 PM

Lunaville: Galloping Galoshes: Lunaville: SpectroBoy: Galloping Galoshes: You don't gather much. The Israeli position is "don't shoot at us, and we won't shoot back. If you do shoot at us, don't be surprised what happens then."

And the Palestinian position is "Give back the land you stole from us and stop bombing us and we won't need to shoot back!"

These two statements really are the heart of the conflict. What if there was an attempt to create a plan that would be acceptable to both sides? Trying to draw on many of the ideas presented by other people up thread, I propose the following as a starting point.

1. Each European Union country, the United Kingdom, the United States of America, Canada, and Australia each agree to accept 40,000 refugees from Palestine above the number they currently accept each year.
2. Nations surrounding Israel are pressured via the UN, a media campaign, and, if necessary economic sanctions into accepting the remaining Palestinians into their nations with full citizenship rights.
3. The UN oversees a resettlement fund supported by all participating UN countries and authorized to accept private donations. The fund would provide each family an extremely modest home on, let's say, an 1/8th acre of land and a one year monthly food stipend equivalent to $30 dollars per person to allow time for these people to get on their feet and become self-supporting.
4. All military aid is ended to the entire region, including Israel. Humanitarian aid may be continued provided it is not converted to military use.

Hey, at least you're trying.

It's deeply flawed though. My proposal assumes, without warrant, that the entirety of the Palestinian population is willing to relocate and adopt a new national identity. It overlooks that the fact that many Palestinians are or were farmers. How is a person supposed to farm olives on an 1/8th acre of land? Someone out there has to have a better idea.


Well, fundamentally, it assumes that the problem is between Israel and the Palestinians. The problem is much deeper and far more complex. It's roots go to cold war conflict and securing energy supplies.
 
2012-11-16 02:02:53 PM
and

i.imgur.com
 
2012-11-16 02:04:11 PM

Seraphym: SurfaceTension: You know, if only Israel had performed airstrikes this week in Gaza and killed the leader of the military portion of Hamas, maybe this wouldn't have happened.

/oh, wait
//don't worry, Israel, you'll strike back and THAT time, for sure, without a doubt, will work because it has to at SOME point, right?
///how about trying something different for a change?

You know, people always trot out this same exact statement, over and over, and it's farking retarded:

1) Israel has been not striking back after HUNDREDS of rocket attacks prior to what was obviously the proverbial straw on the camel's back - how's that for "different" and "peace-seaking?" Just because the international media essentially ignores posting anything about the ongoing barrage of rockets, cross-border infiltrations and attacks from Gaza anywhere forward of "page 10 in the paper" (in a 1 paragraph blurb) doesn't mean they don't happen.

Do some farking research or pay more attention, and quit posting that little 4-month span of "only a few rockets" chart from 2008 - you know, 4½ YEARS AGO? Read. Through. These. Articles. about the 2500+ ROCKETS AND MORTARS FIRED SINCE THAT FARKING CHART. And that chart spiked because it never hit 0 to begin with.

2) The "You know the Palestinians are going to fire rockets at you some more, Israel, so why don't you try something different?" argument also begs the question that the Palestinians have no other choice but to spend their money and time to build more rockets to fire at civilians, no matter how much their aim sucks. Why do you idiots who claim Israel's the one who has to try new tactics (which they've done, multiple times) treat the Palestinians like they are some dumb animals who only respond to impulse with violence... aren't they people too, who can choose to "try something different?" Why do you useful idiots continually not give the Palestinians the benefit of the doubt that they too can choose to invest in peace instead of war?

Their leaders, Hamas, who they elected, who then proceeded to kill off Fatah (who runs the West Bank) members to gain total power in Gaza, are the worst enemies of any rational, peace-seeking Gazan Palestinian. But you farking morons don't ever assume these people have any free will of their own, except to fight Israel. How about they fight Hamas who turns their lives into total shiat, instead? Why do you never provide THAT as a "try something else" option for the region?

I suspect it's because, for most of you, you'd applaud the day where the only stable, prosperous, technologically-advanced, multi-ethnical and diverse-religion (there are over 1 million Muslim citizens in Israel, 16+% of population, who enjoy full rights under law) democracy in the entire middle east were forced to collapse. Just go ahead and admit it (well, many of you do).

Quit treating the Palestinians like dumb brutes with no options of their own just so you can justify supporting your desire to see Israel gone one day.

/rant


This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This .
 
2012-11-16 02:04:25 PM
I think the IDF just got another Hamas leader (central gaza).....

apparently Hamas Tweeted it's leadership team that since the IDF has now mobilized 75,000 reservists..... the Hamas Alert System was changed from 'hide' to 'run'.

It's too late to run....
 
2012-11-16 02:04:45 PM
Oh god, a rocket, shiat's done got real now. Or is this just the lucky one that made it through half the Gaza strip being carpeted in willy pete several times over now?
 
2012-11-16 02:06:01 PM

kindms: BigNumber12: kindms

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/15/assassinating-the-ch a nce-for-calm.html

How about the dailybeast ?


That was interesting...digging through the rest of his posts now.
 
2012-11-16 02:06:45 PM

Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw


Science can't even cure cancer or diabetes. Every day something new is found that till today we were told did not exist. You bet your eternal soul on that? Fool.
 
2012-11-16 02:07:50 PM

liam76: MaliFinn: For the same reason that most men want the property but not the people

How does pulling out get them the property?


There was a double meaning in that.

i208.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-16 02:08:27 PM

give me doughnuts: Cynicism101: liam76: arabs in ISrael is growing faster than the jewish population.

In a way that's worse than a stable population, because Israel has severely limited the amount of water available to Palestinians, as well as farmland.
/look up how many wells ended up on the Israeli side of the wall
//UN has a report on it that I'm too lazy to google.

Darn those Israelis for not building enough pipelines, and not supplying even more water to he Gaza Strip.

Too bad those 3000 greenhouses that American Jewish donor bought from Isarali settlers and gave to the Palestinian Authority got looted ad stripped to the ground. I wonder how much food they could have grown?


Im their defense they were riddles with jew-cooties.
 
2012-11-16 02:13:20 PM

Amos Quito: liam76: Amos Quito: /Gaza is a "thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth" city

Those all powerful scheming Zionists sure are not doing well at this whole genocide thing you are accusing them of.

Why do you think it was so easy for them to pull off during the Holocaust when Gaza is such a tough nut to crack?


That was straight from the Torah, Old Testament, Liar76.

You don't doubt the "good book", do you, Liar76?


Dont' care what it is from, if you think that is their goal they are pretty shiatty at it. Ever ask yourself why they could pull off the holocaust but this is too tough, or do you not want to poke holes in your psychosis.

The "good book" as a whole is probably one of the worst books of fiction one could base their life on.
 
2012-11-16 02:13:46 PM

bostonguy: nmemkha: Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worship the God of Abraham. They are literally fighting each other in the name of the same God.

Uh, it's more like one of them is fighting the other two, and often themselves when individual sects disagree.


Muslims worship a false God. Jews are not saved because they do not accept Jesus as their savior. There is only ONE way to salvation. That is through Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus
 
2012-11-16 02:14:35 PM

MaliFinn: liam76: MaliFinn: For the same reason that most men want the property but not the people

How does pulling out get them the property?

There was a double meaning in that.

[i208.photobucket.com image 240x169]


You didn't write int he hint, hint, nudge, nudge, wink, wink so I missed it...
 
2012-11-16 02:16:04 PM

Egoy3k: Marine1: Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw

Worked wonders in the Soviet Union, after all.

The Soviet Union had a grasp on science that could at best be described as tenuous.


On the other hand, they had no problem with taking beautiful religious artifacts and shooting them with Mosin-Nagant rifles in the church courtyard.

Point is this: religion, on its own, is generally not a dangerous thing. Add extremism into that mix and you have a toxic mix. Same thing goes with science. We haven't had too many amoral scientists in recent history, but when they do exist, the things that can happen are just as grizzly as in these wars.
 
2012-11-16 02:16:32 PM

Mija: Muslims worship a false God. Jews are not saved because they do not accept Jesus as their savior. There is only ONE way to salvation. That is through Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus


Trolololololol...
 
2012-11-16 02:18:36 PM

liam76: RanDomino: The terrifying part is that this opinion is probably pretty mainstream in Israel.

What is terrifying is morons like yourself can't take 10 seconds to look up how Israeli's feel, and instead like to comment on what awful opinions Isreali's "probably" have.

Over the years, polls have consistently showed "respectable Israeli and Palestinian majorities in favor of a negotiated two-state settlement."[1] In a 2007 poll, over one quarter of the Palestinian respondents in the West Bank and Gaza Strip rejected both a binational and two-state solution; 46% preferred the two-state solution, and 26% preferred the binational solution.[2] The two-state solution also enjoys majority support in Israeli polls although there has been some erosion to its prospects over time.

I am pretty sure Ran has me blocked for calling out his BS, so much obliged if someone can post this info for him.


Quoted for factual accuracy.

Although I'll admit that I personally favor the proposal that I mentioned. But, again, it'll never happen. One similar solution, advocated by the nationalist Yisrael Beiteinu (Israel is Our Home) party, is two have a two-state solution with the borders redrawn so that the Palestinian state will include majority-sections of Israel that are Arab, like parts of the north, and that the Jewish state will include the major settlements in the West Bank.
 
2012-11-16 02:20:51 PM

bostonguy: liam76: RanDomino: The terrifying part is that this opinion is probably pretty mainstream in Israel.

What is terrifying is morons like yourself can't take 10 seconds to look up how Israeli's feel, and instead like to comment on what awful opinions Isreali's "probably" have.

Over the years, polls have consistently showed "respectable Israeli and Palestinian majorities in favor of a negotiated two-state settlement."[1] In a 2007 poll, over one quarter of the Palestinian respondents in the West Bank and Gaza Strip rejected both a binational and two-state solution; 46% preferred the two-state solution, and 26% preferred the binational solution.[2] The two-state solution also enjoys majority support in Israeli polls although there has been some erosion to its prospects over time.

I am pretty sure Ran has me blocked for calling out his BS, so much obliged if someone can post this info for him.

Quoted for factual accuracy.

Although I'll admit that I personally favor the proposal that I mentioned. But, again, it'll never happen. One similar solution, advocated by the nationalist Yisrael Beiteinu (Israel is Our Home) party, is two have a two-state solution with the borders redrawn so that the Palestinian state will include majority-sections of Israel that are Arab, like parts of the north, and that the Jewish state will include the major settlements in the West Bank.


Give the Palestinians a chunk of land equal to the size of the West Bank and Gaza combined in Montana.

I mean, that's a serious trade up.
 
2012-11-16 02:21:28 PM

liam76: MaliFinn: liam76: MaliFinn: For the same reason that most men want the property but not the people

How does pulling out get them the property?

There was a double meaning in that.

[i208.photobucket.com image 240x169]

You didn't write int he hint, hint, nudge, nudge, wink, wink so I missed it...


It's just the whole nature of the thing makes me think of Gaza as Israel's mistress. Every once in a while Gaza gets restless and flirts with Israel by tossing things at it, until Israel aggressively penetrates it, and rather than committing too much, pulls out, leaving both parties somewhat unsatisfied.
 
2012-11-16 02:21:29 PM

Mija: bostonguy: nmemkha: Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worship the God of Abraham. They are literally fighting each other in the name of the same God.

Uh, it's more like one of them is fighting the other two, and often themselves when individual sects disagree.

Muslims worship a false God. Jews are not saved because they do not accept Jesus as their savior. There is only ONE way to salvation. That is through Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus


So... Tell me how you feel about us Mormons?
 
2012-11-16 02:23:26 PM

Galloping Galoshes: Hamas rockets land just outside Jerusalem. If they hit a holy site, one of three religions is going to be PISSED

I would be most amused if one of these rockets blows the mosques right off the Temple mount.

/Depending on the site, all three might be pissed.


More than three--there's a lot of more obscure Abrahamic faiths that consider Jerusalem to have holy status or buildings holy to their faith, including the Baha'i and the Druze...about the ONLY Abrahamic faith that MIGHT not go full whargarbl about their holy sites being blown up in Jerusalem MIGHT be the Samaritans (yes, they still exist; it was a very early and conservative fork from Judaism in which they didn't approve of the building of the Second Temple, and can be said to have been Diaspora Before Diaspora Was Cool; they're also the one directly Judaism-derived group that still does all the Old Testament rituals including sin offerings)...and that's just because the Samaritans think mainline Judaism jumped the shark sometime after the Babylonian captivity. You'd probably even get the (quite obscure and semi-syncretic-with-OLD-Kurdish-religion) Yezidi into the lynch mob at that point...

Hell, I think Hamas may be very firmly on the bad side of Baha'is worldwide if they go after Haifa (which pretty much is to Baha'is as Mecca is to Islam)...that MIGHT just be enough for what is normally pretty much one of the pacifistic Abrahamic faiths to go nuclear :P

/have semi-personal interest in this as I had a neighbour once upon a time who was Baha'i, also my favourite place locally for hummus and baba ghanoush is run by Iranian expatriates who had to leave the country for the "crime" of following the wrong Abrahamic faith
 
2012-11-16 02:23:30 PM

bostonguy: Although I'll admit that I personally favor the proposal that I mentioned. But, again, it'll never happen. One similar solution, advocated by the nationalist Yisrael Beiteinu (Israel is Our Home) party, is two have a two-state solution with the borders redrawn so that the Palestinian state will include majority-sections of Israel that are Arab, like parts of the north, and that the Jewish state will include the major settlements in the West Bank


Most Isreali Arabs don't want to be part of a Palestenians state. The standard of living and instability just isn't worth it.
 
2012-11-16 02:23:32 PM

RanDomino: give me doughnuts
-are outside their country of nationality or habitual residence;

how the fark does this not apply 

anyway I know you're full of shiat because there are Hmong people living in refugee camps in Thailand who are second-generation residents and are still considered refugees



You'd better tell the UNHCR because the don't mention the Hmong at all.
 
2012-11-16 02:23:43 PM

liam76: RanDomino: The terrifying part is that this opinion is probably pretty mainstream in Israel.

What is terrifying is morons like yourself can't take 10 seconds to look up how Israeli's feel, and instead like to comment on what awful opinions Isreali's "probably" have.

Over the years, polls have consistently showed "respectable Israeli and Palestinian majorities in favor of a negotiated two-state settlement."[1] In a 2007 poll, over one quarter of the Palestinian respondents in the West Bank and Gaza Strip rejected both a binational and two-state solution; 46% preferred the two-state solution, and 26% preferred the binational solution.[2] The two-state solution also enjoys majority support in Israeli polls although there has been some erosion to its prospects over time.

I am pretty sure Ran has me blocked for calling out his BS, so much obliged if someone can post this info for him.


Judging the entirety of Israel by the actions of its current administration is like judging the entirety of the USA by the actions of the Bush Administration.

Some people here must really not like Jews.
 
2012-11-16 02:27:06 PM

ISO15693: So... Tell me how you feel about us Mormons?


Mormons aren't chirstians.

give me doughnuts: RanDomino: give me doughnuts
-are outside their country of nationality or habitual residence;

how the fark does this not apply 

anyway I know you're full of shiat because there are Hmong people living in refugee camps in Thailand who are second-generation residents and are still considered refugees


You'd better tell the UNHCR because the don't mention the Hmong at all.


Ran doesn't need facts.
He knows they are "probably" considered refugees.
Just like he know what Israeli's "probably" think.
Life is much easier when he can float around using what he thinks is "probably" right and look down on anyone else who contradicts him with facts.
 
2012-11-16 02:27:53 PM

that bosnian sniper: Oh god, a rocket, shiat's done got real now. Or is this just the lucky one that made it through half the Gaza strip being carpeted in willy pete several times over now?


You knopw what burns hotter than white phosphorus?


The stupid.
 
2012-11-16 02:28:23 PM

bostonguy: Quoted for factual accuracy.


Well, maybe the Israelis need to get out and farking vote instead of letting the right-wing fundies in their own country dictate the terms of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Seriously, people act almost as if Likud was re-elected in a vacuum. Israeli turnout in the last couple elections has been just about the lowest it's ever been.
 
2012-11-16 02:31:52 PM

give me doughnuts: You knopw what burns hotter than white phosphorus?

The stupid.


Say what?
 
2012-11-16 02:33:45 PM

RanDomino:

Seraphym
Do some farking research or pay more attention, and quit posting that little 4-month span of "only a few rockets" chart from 2008 - you know, 4½ YEARS AGO? Read. Through. These. Articles. about the 2500+ ROCKETS AND MORTARS FIRED SINCE THAT FARKING CHART. And that chart spiked because it never hit 0 to begin with.

The point is that Hamas and Israel made the cease-fire on the condition that Israel ease the blockade, which didn't happen. Hamas held up their end and Israel didn't.

2) The "You know the Palestinians are going to fire rockets at you some more, Israel, so why don't you try something different?" argument also begs the question that the Palestinians have no other choice but to spend their money and time to build more rockets to fire at civilians,

Israel has the overwhelming monopoly of force and effective total control. There is nothing the Palestinians can do that can seriously affect Israel.


Sigh, it's not about affecting Israel, get your head out of "countering Israel" (based on my saved history of you on Fark, I know that's hard to do, but at least try), it's about improving their own lives and getting their own shiat together into a peaceful society and letting the world take notice. This would bring an absolute flood of positive attention to their side.

Also, Israel has overwhelming monopoly of force within Gaza, on a daily basis? What are you talking about? Aid shipments through the border with Egypt occur all the time, and would be even more frequent if Hamas and Gazan militants would just stop trying to kill Israelis for even 6 months. Hamas and their supporters in Gaza spend their efforts trying to sneak in rockets & bombs or make tunnels and cross-border incursions though. How much could they accomplish if they focused on taking care of their society and making it an example to follow instead?

Their leaders, Hamas, who they elected, who then proceeded to kill off Fatah (who runs the West Bank) members to gain total power in Gaza,

after winning the election, which Fatah refused to recognize


Mentioning that as a fact justifying internecine murders shows that, again, you don't provide them any other default options in your own internal dialogue. Thanks for supporting my argument.

How about they fight Hamas who turns their lives into total shiat, instead?
...
Quit treating the Palestinians like dumb brutes with no options of their own

and yet it's the Israel-apologists who are always saying Israel is "forced" to do airstrikes and the blockade.


Perhaps some do, but I wasn't addressing Israel's options. However, stopping one's own civilians from being indescriminately killed by rocket fire from a neighbor is not a crime, it's called self defense. People keep trying to get this through your (and others') head, but it's like you have some ideological block to it (can't imagine why).

Galloping Galoshes: Seraphym: Quit treating the Palestinians like dumb brutes with no options of their own just so you can justify supporting your desire to see Israel gone one day.

Wow. I just subscribe it to ignorance,willful or otherwise, not deliberate antisemitism.


Not trying to start an argument, but I didn't ascribe it to antisemitism; I said Israel gone, not the Jews gone. I get that for many they are the same thing though, and I suspect the impulse that drives a lot of the anti-Israel position is subconscious and not fully internalized. I personally don't give a flying fark what religion the people in Israel are, they have a right to stop those trying to kill them for just existing.
 
2012-11-16 02:35:59 PM

liam76: ISO15693: So... Tell me how you feel about us Mormons?

Mormons aren't chirstians.


Good thing, too. We'd have to change the name of our church, to the Cuhrch of Jsues Chirst of Lttaer-day Snaits.
 
2012-11-16 02:36:49 PM

that bosnian sniper: bostonguy: Quoted for factual accuracy.

Well, maybe the Israelis need to get out and farking vote instead of letting the right-wing fundies in their own country dictate the terms of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Seriously, people act almost as if Likud was re-elected in a vacuum. Israeli turnout in the last couple elections has been just about the lowest it's ever been.


Israel's voting rate in the last election was 65%. It helps that Election Day is a national holiday here.

The issue, in part, is that Israel has a proportional-representation system so that no party can gain a clear majority. In the last election, Kadima (the centrist party) got the most votes but nowhere near a majority, and the right-wing parties (from center-right to far-right) in sum got the greatest collective number of votes so they were the only ones who could gain a majority together and form a government.

And the center-right party, Likud, is in a coalition that must cater to the far-right minority parties in order to keep its coalition and government. If Likud wants to do X, and a minor party with only five seats says no, that party has an effective veto.

The electoral system, and not any particular policy, is often to blame when nothing of consequence happens.
 
2012-11-16 02:38:14 PM

bostonguy: that bosnian sniper: bostonguy: Quoted for factual accuracy.

Well, maybe the Israelis need to get out and farking vote instead of letting the right-wing fundies in their own country dictate the terms of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Seriously, people act almost as if Likud was re-elected in a vacuum. Israeli turnout in the last couple elections has been just about the lowest it's ever been.

Israel's voting rate in the last election was 65%. It helps that Election Day is a national holiday here.

The issue, in part, is that Israel has a proportional-representation system so that no party can gain a clear majority. In the last election, Kadima (the centrist party) got the most votes but nowhere near a majority, and the right-wing parties (from center-right to far-right) in sum got the greatest collective number of votes so they were the only ones who could gain a majority together and form a government.

And the center-right party, Likud, is in a coalition that must cater to the far-right minority parties in order to keep its coalition and government. If Likud wants to do X, and a minor party with only five seats says no, that party has an effective veto.

The electoral system, and not any particular policy, is often to blame when nothing of consequence happens.


A related reason is that Israel, as described, has become a solid, center-right country as a result of the Gaza Disengagement, which as recent events show, was an utter mistake.
 
2012-11-16 02:38:20 PM

FitzShivering: Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw

I bet you'd get pretty upset if they launched a missile at the Large Hadron Collider, though. :D


101st Lab Coat Brigade would destroy any living soul associated with such an act.
 
2012-11-16 02:40:12 PM

Seraphym: SurfaceTension: You know, if only Israel had performed airstrikes this week in Gaza and killed the leader of the military portion of Hamas, maybe this wouldn't have happened.

/oh, wait
//don't worry, Israel, you'll strike back and THAT time, for sure, without a doubt, will work because it has to at SOME point, right?
///how about trying something different for a change?

You know, people always trot out this same exact statement, over and over, and it's farking retarded:

1) Israel has been not striking back after HUNDREDS of rocket attacks prior to what was obviously the proverbial straw on the camel's back - how's that for "different" and "peace-seaking?" Just because the international media essentially ignores posting anything about the ongoing barrage of rockets, cross-border infiltrations and attacks from Gaza anywhere forward of "page 10 in the paper" (in a 1 paragraph blurb) doesn't mean they don't happen.

Do some farking research or pay more attention, and quit posting that little 4-month span of "only a few rockets" chart from 2008 - you know, 4½ YEARS AGO? Read. Through. These. Articles. about the 2500+ ROCKETS AND MORTARS FIRED SINCE THAT FARKING CHART. And that chart spiked because it never hit 0 to begin with.

2) The "You know the Palestinians are going to fire rockets at you some more, Israel, so why don't you try something different?" argument also begs the question that the Palestinians have no other choice but to spend their money and time to build more rockets to fire at civilians, no matter how much their aim sucks. Why do you idiots who claim Israel's the one who has to try new tactics (which they've done, multiple times) treat the Palestinians like they are some dumb animals who only respond to impulse with violence... aren't they people too, who can choose to "try something different?" Why do you useful idiots continually not give the Palestinians the benefit of the doubt that they too can choose to invest in peace instead of war?

Their ...


usneakydevilu.files.wordpress.com 

Pretty much this.
 
2012-11-16 02:40:21 PM

Epicedion: Mija: Muslims worship a false God. Jews are not saved because they do not accept Jesus as their savior. There is only ONE way to salvation. That is through Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus

Trolololololol...


Just put him on ignore and move on.
 
2012-11-16 02:43:43 PM
law2.umkc.edu

You cannot trust The Juice
 
2012-11-16 02:44:17 PM

Seraphym: they have a right to stop those trying to kill them for just existing.


How dare you! What an ill-conceived philosophy! I don't know how you can live with yourself, thinking such nonsense.
 
2012-11-16 02:45:53 PM

Lunaville: Epicedion: Mija: Muslims worship a false God. Jews are not saved because they do not accept Jesus as their savior. There is only ONE way to salvation. That is through Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus

Trolololololol...

Just put him on ignore and move on.

But first, "Thanks for playing. Enjoy your lovely parting gifts."
 
2012-11-16 02:46:40 PM

that bosnian sniper: bostonguy: Quoted for factual accuracy.

Well, maybe the Israelis need to get out and farking vote instead of letting the right-wing fundies in their own country dictate the terms of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Seriously, people act almost as if Likud was re-elected in a vacuum. Israeli turnout in the last couple elections has been just about the lowest it's ever been.


I hope I don't exhibit my vast ignorance here, but as I understand it Israeli politics are complicated by the fact that Israel allows duel citizenship. So, a person may be both American and Israeli with full voting rights in each country. This allows people, who do not normally reside in Israel to fly over, skew the outcome of the election, then fly home again exempt from the consequences of their vote. I assume any inaccuracies in my description will be corrected by someone on the thread who is actually Jewish and/or Israeli.
 
2012-11-16 02:48:08 PM

that bosnian sniper: give me doughnuts: You knopw what burns hotter than white phosphorus?

The stupid.

Say what?


Read that carefully and point out where it says anything about carpeting the place "several times over" with WP. It mentioned "dozens of casualties" from it, but not the several hunfred thousand that you would expect if the IDF carpet-bombed the entire Gaza Strip "several times over."

But don't let reality get in the way of a good herp.
 
2012-11-16 02:48:38 PM

Lunaville: that bosnian sniper: bostonguy: Quoted for factual accuracy.

Well, maybe the Israelis need to get out and farking vote instead of letting the right-wing fundies in their own country dictate the terms of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Seriously, people act almost as if Likud was re-elected in a vacuum. Israeli turnout in the last couple elections has been just about the lowest it's ever been.

I hope I don't exhibit my vast ignorance here, but as I understand it Israeli politics are complicated by the fact that Israel allows duel citizenship. So, a person may be both American and Israeli with full voting rights in each country. This allows people, who do not normally reside in Israel to fly over, skew the outcome of the election, then fly home again exempt from the consequences of their vote. I assume any inaccuracies in my description will be corrected by someone on the thread who is actually Jewish and/or Israeli.


You're accurate. I'm a dual citizen and can vote in the United States and Israel. But for Israel, there are no absentee ballots. You need to be here to vote. And I doubt many people will spend $1,500 or more to fly here, vote, and go back. I've never heard of that at all, let alone en masse.
 
2012-11-16 02:57:21 PM

nmemkha: Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worship the God of Abraham. They are literally fighting each other in the name of the same God.


Except the Christians and the Jews aren't the ones doing the fighting.

/religion of peice
 
2012-11-16 02:59:42 PM

Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw


ohwaityou'reserious.jpeg

/You're right in the same sense that telling someone on bath salts they have no right to eat your face off is right.
//So yeah, good luck with that.
///And happy f**kin' Thanksgiving.
 
2012-11-16 03:02:39 PM

Danger Mouse: nmemkha: Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worship the God of Abraham. They are literally fighting each other in the name of the same God.

Except the Christians and the Jews aren't the ones doing the fighting.

/religion of peice


Judaism is a religion of piece. They want a this piece of Gaza, that piece of the West Bank.
 
2012-11-16 03:05:20 PM

gerrymander: The_Fuzz: mekki: Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw

Ah, yes, science. You know, what you use to make the rockets and bombs.

Anyone who thinks science is always peaceful and religion is always violent is an idiot. It's hard to keep wars going if all you have are stones that you've picked off the ground. That's where science kicks in and shows you all the new ways to kill people. Many where you are thousands of miles away and you don't even have to leave your desk.

That's one of the dumbest things I've read in an Middle East war thread in a long time.

There is "truth in the guns don't kill people, I do" bumper sticker. Here's a hint. People with knowledge and Science aren't going to kill people on their own. They need some sort of motivation. Hrmm, like, say, fanatical religions zealots? Ya, that'll do just fine.

Between the Eugenics movement, the Soviet Gulag system, and the Maoist Great Leap Forward, 'people with knowledge and science' managed to rack up a murder count around 75 million or so in the 20th century.

Fanaticism is a human problem, not a religious problem.


There is no way, in the world, I just read what you wrote. None of what you just referenced have anything to do with science and knowledge. Eugenics is the study of planned evolution and change of the Human species; nowhere in proper, academically recognized Eugenics does it seriously entertain the thought of doing harm to currently living Human beings. The Soviet gulag system, more generally the Soviets themselves, can not in any way be equated to scientific understanding. They were thugs and brutal autocracies, that's all there is to it. Same for Mao, he was just a turd under the guise of communism, and using that a a convenient excuse and cover to extort his fellow countrymen, because stealing from them was easier when you called it 'sharing' and 'communism' rather than just stealing it with no excuse.

The dictators of the 20th century, the worst ones including Stalin, Hitler, Mao etc are in no way, shape, or form associated with 'science'.
 
2012-11-16 03:18:26 PM
imgboot.com

ACTION FIGURE!! 
 
2012-11-16 03:18:58 PM
And the Germans killed the Jews
And the Jews killed the Arabs
And the Arabs killed the hostages
And that is the news
And is it any wonder
That the monkey's confused
He said Mama Mama
The President's a fool
Why do I have to keep reading
These technical manuals
And the joint chiefs of staff
And the brokers on Wall Street said
Don't make us laugh
You're a smart kid
Time is linear
Memory is a stranger
History is for fools
Man is a tool in the hands
Of the great God Almighty
And they gave him command
Of a nuclear submarine
And sent him back in search of
The Garden of Eden
 
2012-11-16 03:20:52 PM

bostonguy: American Israeli who left Tel Aviv to crash at a friend's place in Jerusalem after hearing a rocket explode from his apartment


When the rocket exploded from your apartment....did it take out the wall, or just go through the window? And why are you lauching rockets in your apartment?
 
2012-11-16 03:22:03 PM

Lunaville: that bosnian sniper: bostonguy: Quoted for factual accuracy.

Well, maybe the Israelis need to get out and farking vote instead of letting the right-wing fundies in their own country dictate the terms of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Seriously, people act almost as if Likud was re-elected in a vacuum. Israeli turnout in the last couple elections has been just about the lowest it's ever been.

I hope I don't exhibit my vast ignorance here, but as I understand it Israeli politics are complicated by the fact that Israel allows duel citizenship. So, a person may be both American and Israeli with full voting rights in each country. This allows people, who do not normally reside in Israel to fly over, skew the outcome of the election, then fly home again exempt from the consequences of their vote. I assume any inaccuracies in my description will be corrected by someone on the thread who is actually Jewish and/or Israeli.


Except nobody does that. And, for the post you were commenting on, Israelis get out and vote. They're very political.
 
2012-11-16 03:25:02 PM

MythDragon: bostonguy: American Israeli who left Tel Aviv to crash at a friend's place in Jerusalem after hearing a rocket explode from his apartment

When the rocket exploded from your apartment....did it take out the wall, or just go through the window? And why are you lauching rockets in your apartment?


Probably because he's in college. We all did it back then.
 
2012-11-16 03:26:53 PM

nmemkha: Danger Mouse: nmemkha: Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worship the God of Abraham. They are literally fighting each other in the name of the same God.

Except the Christians and the Jews aren't the ones doing the fighting.

/religion of peice

Judaism is a religion of piece. They want a this piece of Gaza, that piece of the West Bank.


Nobody wants Gaza. And Israel already has the West Bank. And the Golan, thanks.
 
2012-11-16 03:28:17 PM

Galloping Galoshes: Seraphym: they have a right to stop those trying to kill them for just existing.

How dare you! What an ill-conceived philosophy! I don't know how you can live with yourself, thinking such nonsense.


I know, I know, it's an antiquated notion I got from this one somewhat humorous captain.

i.qkme.me
 
2012-11-16 03:33:01 PM

Amos Quito: RULES OF ENGAGEMENT :

10 When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.

11 And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.

12 And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:

13 And when the Lord thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:

14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the Lord thy God hath given thee.

15 Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.

16 But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:

17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee:

18 That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the Lord your God.

19 When thou shalt besiege a city a long time, in making war against it to take it, thou shalt not destroy the trees thereof by forcing an axe against them: for thou mayest eat of them, and thou shalt not cut them down (for the tree of the field is man's life) to employ them in the siege:

20 Only the trees which thou knowest that they be not trees for meat, thou shalt destroy and cut them down; and thou shalt build bulwarks against the city that maketh war with thee, until it be subdued.

Deuteronomy 20


Just a bit of context to help understand the mindset.


/Gaza is a "thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth" cit ...


Wait... There are meat-trees in Israel?

Maybe there is something worth fighting over over there...
 
2012-11-16 03:35:48 PM

give me doughnuts:
You knopw what burns hotter than white phosphorus?


My cock when I pee?
 
2012-11-16 03:41:34 PM
Dangerous times my friends. Israel sees weakness in its neighbors now and is poised to take advantage. But never forget who backs the forces of terrorism in Gaza, Syria, and Lebanon. If Israeli forces are able to strike a decisive blow against Hamas, how long until Iran is next.
 
2012-11-16 03:52:13 PM

Quick Fixer: Amos Quito: RULES OF ENGAGEMENT :

[Derp]

...yes, Amos you and Deuteronomy

Wait... There are meat-trees in Israel?

Maybe there is something worth fighting over over there...


Well, yeeaah? They've taxonomied them an' everything, duh:

www.yongsshin.com

It's called the Holy Land, dude... they've got everything.

NSFW Example

/different type of meat
 
2012-11-16 03:52:30 PM

Porous Horace: give me doughnuts:
You knopw what burns hotter than white phosphorus?

My cock when I pee?


There're medications for that....
 
2012-11-16 03:54:59 PM

nmemkha: Danger Mouse: nmemkha: Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worship the God of Abraham. They are literally fighting each other in the name of the same God.

Except the Christians and the Jews aren't the ones doing the fighting.

/religion of peice

Judaism is a religion of piece. They want a this piece of Gaza, that piece of the West Bank.


If you disarmed the Palistines, you would have peace. If you disarmed the jews, there would be a genocide.
 
2012-11-16 03:55:05 PM

FitzShivering: Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw

I bet you'd get pretty upset if they launched a missile at the Large Hadron Collider, though. :D


I would be very upset, the Swiss however, would remain indifferent.

Also, has anyone tried explaining to these people that god is made up, like the Easter bunny or the tooth fairy? I think they would stop fighting if they knew there wasn't a skywizard
 
2012-11-16 04:08:34 PM
i1182.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-16 04:10:14 PM

Mija: bostonguy: nmemkha: Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worship the God of Abraham. They are literally fighting each other in the name of the same God.

Uh, it's more like one of them is fighting the other two, and often themselves when individual sects disagree.

Muslims worship a false God. Jews are not saved because they do not accept Jesus as their savior. There is only ONE way to salvation. That is through Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus


The Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worship the same god, know as God, Allah, Yahweh, Lord, and a few other names.

Christians are Jewish heretics that believe that the Messiah, the one called 'Jesus', has already been here and left. While some Jews recognize him as a rabbi or a prophet, they don't buy off on the whole Jesus was the God in the body of man thing. Or talking donkeys. Or Jesus making guest appearances on the Paul and Peter Show. Christians as a rule are taught to believe that they should not be judgmental, should not take revenge on their enemies, and should be generous to each other. They are also taught if you buy into all that but still don't buy into the Jesus was God on Earth thing (and that everything his disciples said actually happened and they recorded every word he said as noted in the Bible with 100% accuracy), you're going to Hell.

Muslims are also Jewish heretics that combined beliefs from Jewish faith with a bit of Christian heresy, and tribal beliefs. They trace their lineage back to Abraham and claim that someone named Mohammed was the final word on everything...except where someone decided to play editor and organize his writings and add additional stuff in other book he didn't actually write (Mormons, that should sound familiar). Of course because Muslims believe Mohammed had the final word on everything, anyone who doesn't think so but believes in God (Allah, Yaweh, etc.) gets to live (well, usually...they are still a bit iffy on the the whole Jewish thing). Anyone else who doesn't believe in God is not only going to Hell (Christians that should sound familiar), but Muslims have an obligation to make sure they get there with all possible speed in they don't repent.

Jews are the original chosen people. Not the original believers in God, but the first to get really serious about it and build fixed structures dedicated to his worship. They also believe that God told someone to build a wooden ship with an infinite cargo hold, then made sure that he, his wife, sons and their wives got on board before wiping everyone else out. You are therefore descended from him. Oh and...he also got drunk after all the rain and stuff and he condemned one of his sons who saw him naked, but we'll skip ahead to the important part: Moses. He wrote down a lot of stuff, like telling the Jews how to live--ten simple rules for not pissing God off. The Jews of course codified and expanded upon all that and things were going great for the most part until their kings had trouble keeping their dick in the pants, keeping their wives from worshiping false gods, and generally making a mess of things. Their kingdom was divided and eventually the two separate pieces both fell to larger empires. After that many of the Jews scattered or were forced to scatter and things were never quite the same after that. The good news is that they spread their faith to other lands, and influenced a lot of people...like those that would become the Christians and Muslims.

So there you have it. I've just saved you hours of Wiki searches. Enjoy your weekend.
 
2012-11-16 04:11:21 PM

Mija: Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw

Science can't even cure cancer or diabetes. Every day something new is found that till today we were told did not exist. You bet your eternal soul on that? Fool.


Republican levels of knowledge detected
 
2012-11-16 04:13:27 PM
Anonymous hacker group attacks Israeli websites Link

Link

\not sure if this is a good move for them
 
2012-11-16 04:17:34 PM

Tellingthem: Anonymous hacker group attacks Israeli websites Link

Link

\not sure if this is a good move for them


Anonymous......

http://GO.FARK.YOURSELVES/

/Shut Up While ADULTS are Securing The World.
 
2012-11-16 04:22:49 PM

PsiChick: Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw

ohwaityou'reserious.jpeg

/You're right in the same sense that telling someone on bath salts they have no right to eat your face off is right.
//So yeah, good luck with that.
///And happy f**kin' Thanksgiving.


Awww....sorry to shiat all over your fairy tales/fables. Do some reading over the weekend about actual history, you might be surprised what you will find.

/have my masters in world history
//looks like you have a masters in hurrrrrrrr and durrrrrrrr
 
2012-11-16 04:25:49 PM
ghostwind: 2012-11-16 01:36:30 PM
(deleted: Attempting to start a flamewar)


All references to Tatsuma are now banned on fark? great...
 
2012-11-16 04:27:31 PM
Can the US, Russia and China finally cooperate to do some good? Give everyone 30 days to leave, then plaster the region with nukes. Problem solved, permanently.
 
2012-11-16 04:31:16 PM

Danger Mouse: If you disarmed the Palistines, you would have peace. If you disarmed the jews, there would be a genocide.


What if we just disarmed Israel?
 
2012-11-16 04:33:55 PM
Let them blow each other to atoms. That's all they've been doing over there for the last 2,000 years. Nothing anyone can do will end it.
 
2012-11-16 04:39:22 PM
This one goes out to Amos Q.

In my country there is problem,
And that problem is transport.
It take very very long,
Because Kazakhstan is big.

Throw transport down the well
So my country can be free
We must make travel easy
Then we'll have a big party

In my country there is problem
And that problem is the Jew
They take everybody money
And they never give it back

Throw the jew down the well
So my country can be free
You must grab him by his horns
Then we have a big party

If you see the Jew coming
You must be carefull of his teeth
You must grab him by his money
And I tell you what to do

Throw the jew down the well
So my country can be free
You must grab him by his horns
Then we have a big party
 
2012-11-16 04:44:07 PM
Oh, look, a bunch of people living in the Middle East are trying to kill each other. Must be a day that ends in 'y'.
 
2012-11-16 04:52:48 PM

bostonguy: A related reason is that Israel, as described, has become a solid, center-right country as a result of the Gaza Disengagement, which as recent events show, was an utter mistake.


The disengagement wasn't the mistake...the mistake was in its utter clusterfark of an execution, followed up by outright refusing to deal with the (freely and fairly) elected Hamas government. As others have pointed out -- and has been demonstrated to be true, time and again, regardless of nationality or circumstance -- extremism feeds off extremism. And moreover, legitimacy forces moderation, which in turn discredits extremism. That goes both ways. Had there been at least a good faith attempt by the Quartet and Israel to enter negotiations with the Hamas government as a legitimate, democratic, authority, Hamas may have found itself in a position (and with reason) to police its extremism and moderate itself on behalf of its people.
 
2012-11-16 04:58:18 PM
At the rate things are going, I could see this getting quite out-of-hand in the next week. While we're enjoying a nice Thanksgiving dinner with family and friends here in the US next week, Israel may well be occupying Gaza and possibly southern Lebanon if Hezbollah decides to join in on the rocket-lobbing. It wouldn't surprise me to see several wrecked nuclear sites in Iran, either.

Hamas had to go and rile 'em all up, my bet is the IDF goes all "Roadhouse" on Hamas and anyone else who is significantly pissing them off lately.

/ROADHOUSE!
 
2012-11-16 05:00:40 PM
give me doughnuts
You'd better tell the UNHCR because the don't mention the Hmong at all.

Not surprising.


Seraphym
if Hamas and Gazan militants would just stop trying to kill Israelis for even 6 months.

What do you expect- that they're just going to wake up one morning and stop being filled with hate and desire for revenge?

Palestinians have no real leverage over Israel. You might not like to admit it but the rockets' main effect is that some people periodically have to stop what they're doing for a few minutes. Israel could flatten Gaza within hours and has the West Bank on lockdown. Israel has used their military victories and monopoly on force to take land, take water, and make people's lives miserable- strategically, they are unquestionably the aggressor ("strategic offense, tactical defense"). It's insane to blame the powerless.

stopping one's own civilians from being indescriminately killed by rocket fire from a neighbor is not a crime, it's called self defense.

The demand that every rocket be responded to with an airstrike only perpetuates the conflict, and does nothing to actually stop the rockets. Which results in more deaths: 50 dead all at once and then zero forever, or one every year until the end of time?

Why is ALL the impetus on Palestinians to suddenly have a great epiphany, to try peace? Just as Israeli hawks think that only force can stop the rockets, Palestinian hawks think that only rockets prevent Israel from rolling over them. Why is it only demanded of the Palestinians to disarm?

those trying to kill them for just existing.

Get your head out of your ass.


bostonguy
the Gaza Disengagement, which as recent events show, was an utter mistake.

You as well There was no farking disengagement.
 
2012-11-16 05:05:03 PM

hdhale: Mija: bostonguy: nmemkha: Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worship the God of Abraham. They are literally fighting each other in the name of the same God.

Uh, it's more like one of them is fighting the other two, and often themselves when individual sects disagree.

Muslims worship a false God. Jews are not saved because they do not accept Jesus as their savior. There is only ONE way to salvation. That is through Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus

The Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worship the same god, know as God, Allah, Yahweh, Lord, and a few other names.

Christians are Jewish heretics that believe that the Messiah, the one called 'Jesus', has already been here and left. While some Jews recognize him as a rabbi or a prophet, they don't buy off on the whole Jesus was the God in the body of man thing. Or talking donkeys. Or Jesus making guest appearances on the Paul and Peter Show. Christians as a rule are taught to believe that they should not be judgmental, should not take revenge on their enemies, and should be generous to each other. They are also taught if you buy into all that but still don't buy into the Jesus was God on Earth thing (and that everything his disciples said actually happened and they recorded every word he said as noted in the Bible with 100% accuracy), you're going to Hell.

Muslims are also Jewish heretics that combined beliefs from Jewish faith with a bit of Christian heresy, and tribal beliefs. They trace their lineage back to Abraham and claim that someone named Mohammed was the final word on everything...except where someone decided to play editor and organize his writings and add additional stuff in other book he didn't actually write (Mormons, that should sound familiar). Of course because Muslims believe Mohammed had the final word on everything, anyone who doesn't think so but believes in God (Allah, Yaweh, etc.) gets to live (well, usually. ...


That's... just...
pretty damn good, actually. Thanks!

*copy/pasting into a doc file*
 
2012-11-16 05:13:50 PM

MmmmBacon: Hamas had to go and rile 'em all up, my bet is the IDF goes all "Roadhouse" on Hamas and anyone else who is significantly pissing them off lately.


The scenario that scares me is Israel uses the "Iranian rocket" as an excuse to go shiatcakes in Syria, since Syria is a strategic ally of Iran...
 
2012-11-16 05:22:32 PM
ALL HAIL ATHEISM! WORSHIPERS OF SCIENCE! THE TRUE RELIGION OF PEACE!

whybecausescience.files.wordpress.com

lol. peaceful science. riiiight.
 
2012-11-16 05:35:58 PM
I'd like this conflict to end quickly and with minimum casualties on both sides. Since that's not going to happen.. 
fc06.deviantart.net
 
2012-11-16 05:37:26 PM

Mija: bostonguy: nmemkha: Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worship the God of Abraham. They are literally fighting each other in the name of the same God.

Uh, it's more like one of them is fighting the other two, and often themselves when individual sects disagree.

Muslims worship a false God. Jews are not saved because they do not accept Jesus as their savior. There is only ONE way to salvation. That is through Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus


So explain again why God can't forgive sin without someone killing his son again? I mean, he's all powerful, what the heck would he need somethign liek that?
 
2012-11-16 05:38:44 PM

fluffy2097: ALL HAIL ATHEISM! WORSHIPERS OF SCIENCE! THE TRUE RELIGION OF PEACE!

[whybecausescience.files.wordpress.com image 450x338]

lol. peaceful science. riiiight.


For my own sanity I'm going to pretend that you're not really that stupid.
 
2012-11-16 05:44:35 PM

A Shambling Mound: fluffy2097: ALL HAIL ATHEISM! WORSHIPERS OF SCIENCE! THE TRUE RELIGION OF PEACE!

[whybecausescience.files.wordpress.com image 450x338]

lol. peaceful science. riiiight.

For my own sanity I'm going to pretend that you're not really that stupid.


Science doesn't kill.

On the other hand, quite a few "scientists" have done some pretty obscene shiat in the interests of furthering their fields of study, regardless of whether or not those fields are legitimate. See: eugenics, German medical experiments on concentration camp prisoners, the US government testing drugs on prisoners without informed consent, Thomas Edison proposing electricity as a method of execution, Soviets using psychiatric wards to trump up diagnoses to silence political and religious dissidents, etc.

Anything, and I mean ANYTHING carried out without moderation or concern for others is dangerous. Scientific inquiry, religious worship, governance, you name it.
 
2012-11-16 05:59:29 PM

Marine1: A Shambling Mound: fluffy2097: ALL HAIL ATHEISM! WORSHIPERS OF SCIENCE! THE TRUE RELIGION OF PEACE!

[whybecausescience.files.wordpress.com image 450x338]

lol. peaceful science. riiiight.

For my own sanity I'm going to pretend that you're not really that stupid.

Science doesn't kill.

On the other hand, quite a few "scientists" have done some pretty obscene shiat in the interests of furthering their fields of study, regardless of whether or not those fields are legitimate. See: eugenics, German medical experiments on concentration camp prisoners, the US government testing drugs on prisoners without informed consent, Thomas Edison proposing electricity as a method of execution, Soviets using psychiatric wards to trump up diagnoses to silence political and religious dissidents, etc.

Anything, and I mean ANYTHING carried out without moderation or concern for others is dangerous. Scientific inquiry, religious worship, governance, you name it.


I don't see how this proves your point that "Science doesn't kill." If anything you disproved it. "Religion" doesn't kill either, but people practicing it sure do, just like science. If you are just arguing semantics then great job, but Religion and Science are both responsible for plenty of death.
 
2012-11-16 06:05:07 PM

Marine1: Science doesn't kill.


Science doesn't kill. It just automates the process.

What with more and more Atheists chanting to the drumbeat of "we need to get rid of all religion if we want peace." Well, there is only ultimate end to that kind of thinking. mass murder.

I mean, Atheists already know there is no reasoning with religious people, and that they are the root of all violence in the world. A little bit more blood spilled in human history is a terribly small price to pay for a world of peace without religion.

If we use enough science, the blood on our hands won't even have to be anyone we know...

/There is a reason I decided to become agnostic.
//Has nothing at all to do with what I think about God.
 
2012-11-16 06:07:14 PM

A Shambling Mound: For my own sanity I'm going to pretend that you're not really that stupid.


I'd rather you call me a prophet.

/Not gonna be a martyr though.
 
2012-11-16 06:10:17 PM

Son of Thunder: Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw

Yup. That's about the average intellectual level of the atheists in fark religion threads.


Yet they're still light years ahead of the murderous Luddite mouth-breathing kiddy-diddling deist crowd, who's highest technological achievements to date are the car bomb and the TV ministry.
 
2012-11-16 06:12:06 PM

PunGent: Son of Thunder: Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw

Yup. That's about the average intellectual level of the atheists in fark religion threads.

Yet they're still light years ahead of the murderous Luddite mouth-breathing kiddy-diddling deist crowd, who's highest technological achievements to date are the car bomb and the TV ministry.


As opposed to science, who rings in with the Tsar Bomba, and TV-guided bomb.
 
2012-11-16 06:15:38 PM

Blue_Blazer: Marine1: A Shambling Mound: fluffy2097: ALL HAIL ATHEISM! WORSHIPERS OF SCIENCE! THE TRUE RELIGION OF PEACE!

[whybecausescience.files.wordpress.com image 450x338]

lol. peaceful science. riiiight.

For my own sanity I'm going to pretend that you're not really that stupid.

Science doesn't kill.

On the other hand, quite a few "scientists" have done some pretty obscene shiat in the interests of furthering their fields of study, regardless of whether or not those fields are legitimate. See: eugenics, German medical experiments on concentration camp prisoners, the US government testing drugs on prisoners without informed consent, Thomas Edison proposing electricity as a method of execution, Soviets using psychiatric wards to trump up diagnoses to silence political and religious dissidents, etc.

Anything, and I mean ANYTHING carried out without moderation or concern for others is dangerous. Scientific inquiry, religious worship, governance, you name it.

I don't see how this proves your point that "Science doesn't kill." If anything you disproved it. "Religion" doesn't kill either, but people practicing it sure do, just like science. If you are just arguing semantics then great job, but Religion and Science are both responsible for plenty of death.


That's... sort of what I'm saying. Anything taken to its extreme kills.

Sorry, it's been a long day.
 
2012-11-16 06:16:24 PM
where is the timeout corner?
 
2012-11-16 07:11:12 PM

Quick Fixer: Wait... There are meat-trees in Israel?

Maybe there is something worth fighting over over there...


From the SO:
"Oh ye, truly they art God's own chosen, for though the laws passed down from He who is on most high forbiddeth the consumption of the flesh of the unclean swine, the lord our God hath blessed the children of Israel with the Bacon Forsithia, the Pork Chop Sycamore, and the Shrimp Creole Holly.

Amen."

/I WANNA BACON TREE :D
 
2012-11-16 07:22:56 PM

BolloxReader: Lunaville: The My Little Pony Killer: Let's keep encroaching on the land we shoved these people off onto and see if we can't get sunshine and rainbows from them.

/what Israel seriously believes

Actually, the British shoved aside the Palestinians to form Israel with the consent of the USA. Palestine was British territory. To my knowledge, the only group that questioned the wisdom of shunting a huge percentage of Europes' Jewish population into Palestine at that time were the Quakers. And they didn't have really have an alternative solution to offer other than pushing to allow for more refugee entry into the United Kingdom and the United States which was hotly opposed at that time.

I do wonder why Hamas so rarely denounces Britain? And America? I mean, I know that they do, but by comparison to what they dump on Israel, it seems so subdued. Maybe it's a distance and perspective thing creating what is really, on my part, a misconception. It's hard to judge.

The British totally trolled the Palestinians. They were supposed to be given their independence following WWI, in exchange for the Palestinians rising up against the Ottomans. Instead, their land was given to the Israelis, and many have lived in camps for several generations in various other Muslim countries. They've been screwed for the last hundred years. Now they are being used as meatshields by Assad to keep Israel out of the Syrian civil war.


The Jews and Arabs lived side by side during the British protectorate and up to the founding of Israel. Arabs fled when five Arab countries invaded in 1947, and again when Israel pre-emptively attacked to stop a second multi-Arab-country invasion in 1967. Palestinian Arabs were pushed into refugee camps by Jordan, Syria and Egypt before '67, and didn't come under Israeli occupation until after the Six-Day War.

That said, the West Bank settlements are a really stupid idea and should all be pushed back behind the Green Line so that the Palestinian Arabs can have a state. Just complete the security barrier, pull all Israelis out of the rest of the West Bank and say, there, Palestine, there are your borders. Go to it.
 
2012-11-16 07:39:58 PM

bostonguy: Here's the quick history from what I posted in a prior thread. Note: No side -- the Jews, the Arabs, and the Palestinians are blameless (though some a lot more than others):

Quick history: There had always been some Jews living among the Arabs in the Ottoman Empire's province of Palestine for centuries. Starting in the nineteenth century, more and more Jews began moving to the region and buying land from Arabs or moving into empty, desolate, unused land. Eventually, after World War I and the British gaining control, the UN proposed splitting the area into a Jewish and an Arab state. The Jews agreed; the Arabs did not and declared war.

In the ensuing chaos of war, many Arabs ended up in what is now called the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Some of them left voluntarily either to avoid the war or under orders from the Arab leaders to get out of the way of the invading armies. Others were indeed forcibly expelled by the Haganah (what would become the IDF). It's impossible to know what percentage of the relocation was voluntary and involuntary. Anyway, it happened.

So, you had a bunch of Arabs in what were then parts of Jordan and Egypt. When those countries invaded Israel in 1967, Israel won and took those lands from the two countries for increased future security. Today, Jordan has said that it no longer wants the West Bank, and Egypt does not want Gaza. Under international law, the ownership of the land transferred to Israel because the original owners, the countries, gave up their claims.

Of course, those pieces of land still had a lot of the aforementioned Arabs and now their descendants. What to do? Answer that, and you'll get a Nobel Prize.


Let them vote as full citizens with 100% of the rights of other citizens of Israel. This situation absolutely stinks of apartheid, the majority of the population are excluded from the political process, but subject to its rule.

A clear minority rules a majority, that is what I could call an oppressive regime.

Now, I know the Israeli population would never voluntarily give up their dictatorial powers, so I don't know what will happen. The leaders Hamas certainly ought to be brought to justice as well, for the human rights violations in their murders of innocent israeli civilians. However, I believe the right wing religeous zealots in Israel are a bit more culpable for the violence than anyone else.
 
2012-11-16 08:20:15 PM

Lunaville: I'm trying to remain rational and make an honest effort to understand the issues involved in the conflict between Israel and Palestine. However, I am beginning to feel that Hamas and Netanyahu are the common enemies of the Palestinian and Israeli people. Each inflicts violence on civilians.


Really? Hamas fires unguided missiles at populated areas. Israel takes out missile sites with precision strikes, but OH NO, the missile site was located on a school playground. GENOCIDE!
 
2012-11-16 09:00:53 PM

MrKoon: The_Fuzz: mekki: Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw

Ah, yes, science. You know, what you use to make the rockets and bombs.

Anyone who thinks science is always peaceful and religion is always violent is an idiot. It's hard to keep wars going if all you have are stones that you've picked off the ground. That's where science kicks in and shows you all the new ways to kill people. Many where you are thousands of miles away and you don't even have to leave your desk.

That's one of the dumbest things I've read in an Middle East war thread in a long time.

There is "truth in the guns don't kill people, I do" bumper sticker. Here's a hint. People with knowledge and Science aren't going to kill people on their own. They need some sort of motivation. Hrmm, like, say, fanatical religions zealots? Ya, that'll do just fine.

This.


I agree as well, with no malice towards any involved party.
 
2012-11-16 09:23:16 PM

Amurica...Fark Ya!: Awww....sorry to shiat all over your fairy tales/fables. Do some reading over the weekend about actual history, you might be surprised what you will find.

/have my masters in world history
//looks like you have a masters in hurrrrrrrr and durrrrrrrr


*sigh* Look, genius, I don't care if world religions are real. If Jerusalem gets hit, I mean really hit, then America will invade, the Islamic nations will invade, and Israel will break out the nukes, all in the name of Yaweh.

You might be an atheist, but other people believe in and act on religion whether or not you hate god. And I'm seriously doubting you're an atheist for any other reason given your inane post, because if you actually have a master's in world history you really should know better.
 
2012-11-16 10:39:24 PM

MrKoon: The_Fuzz: mekki: Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw

Ah, yes, science. You know, what you use to make the rockets and bombs.

Anyone who thinks science is always peaceful and religion is always violent is an idiot. It's hard to keep wars going if all you have are stones that you've picked off the ground. That's where science kicks in and shows you all the new ways to kill people. Many where you are thousands of miles away and you don't even have to leave your desk.

That's one of the dumbest things I've read in an Middle East war thread in a long time.

There is "truth in the guns don't kill people, I do" bumper sticker. Here's a hint. People with knowledge and Science aren't going to kill people on their own. They need some sort of motivation. Hrmm, like, say, fanatical religions zealots? Ya, that'll do just fine.

This.


I think his point was that all the motivation in the world won't do you squat if you don't have science to make your weapons.

Science is like any tool at our disposal, it can be used for peaceful purposes or not.

Religion (a system of beliefs used to explain the world) can be used for peaceful purposes or not.

It's up to the people wielding them.
 
2012-11-16 10:51:27 PM

Lunaville: Galloping Galoshes: nmemkha: Well kiss any global economic recovery goodbye if this escalates.

Why? Wars are always good for manufacturing and increasing employment.

That's a myth. Every war throughout history has had a negative effect on the economy. The only apparent exception were the World Wars. There was a boom following them and it is easy to understand might look to that and say "Look, there were two awful wars and, then, our economy leaped ahead." But it isn't true that the leap was due to war. The leap was due to unprecedented government investment in science and research. War takes economies down. Science and research investment increase the health and strength of an economy. And that science and research need not be dedicated to the machines of war. Investment dollars go even further when they are invested in projects that result in nifty new things like the internet, or medicine, or war-preventing green energy sources.


Seems simple enough. And I'd be more than happy to have my tax dollars go towards that!

Pity our government doesn't seem to want to do this though.
 
2012-11-16 11:02:50 PM

Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw


Yeah, it's not like God gave anyone those rockets.
 
2012-11-16 11:05:03 PM

enigmaxx: Why does this warrant the use of the newsflash tag?

Also: 

[t2.gstatic.com image 250x202]


Ironic tag guffaws, busy elsewhere.
 
2012-11-16 11:25:05 PM
Seraphym: SurfaceTension: You know, if only Israel had performed airstrikes this week in Gaza and killed the leader of the military portion of Hamas, maybe this wouldn't have happened.

/oh, wait
//don't worry, Israel, you'll strike back and THAT time, for sure, without a doubt, will work because it has to at SOME point, right?
///how about trying something different for a change?

You know, people always trot out this same exact statement, over and over, and it's farking retarded:

1) Israel has been not striking back after HUNDREDS of rocket attacks prior to what was obviously the proverbial straw on the camel's back - how's that for "different" and "peace-seaking?" Just because the international media essentially ignores posting anything about the ongoing barrage of rockets, cross-border infiltrations and attacks from Gaza anywhere forward of "page 10 in the paper" (in a 1 paragraph blurb) doesn't mean they don't happen.

Do some farking research or pay more attention, and quit posting that little 4-month span of "only a few rockets" chart from 2008 - you know, 4½ YEARS AGO? Read. Through. These. Articles. about the 2500+ ROCKETS AND MORTARS FIRED SINCE THAT FARKING CHART. And that chart spiked because it never hit 0 to begin with.

2) The "You know the Palestinians are going to fire rockets at you some more, Israel, so why don't you try something different?" argument also begs the question that the Palestinians have no other choice but to spend their money and time to build more rockets to fire at civilians, no matter how much their aim sucks. Why do you idiots who claim Israel's the one who has to try new tactics (which they've done, multiple times) treat the Palestinians like they are some dumb animals who only respond to impulse with violence... aren't they people too, who can choose to "try something different?" Why do you useful idiots continually not give the Palestinians the benefit of the doubt that they too can choose to invest in peace instead of war?

Their leaders, Hamas, who they elected, who then proceeded to kill off Fatah (who runs the West Bank) members to gain total power in Gaza, are the worst enemies of any rational, peace-seeking Gazan Palestinian. But you farking morons don't ever assume these people have any free will of their own, except to fight Israel. How about they fight Hamas who turns their lives into total shiat, instead? Why do you never provide THAT as a "try something else" option for the region?

I suspect it's because, for most of you, you'd applaud the day where the only stable, prosperous, technologically-advanced, multi-ethnical and diverse-religion (there are over 1 million Muslim citizens in Israel, 16+% of population, who enjoy full rights under law) democracy in the entire middle east were forced to collapse. Just go ahead and admit it (well, many of you do).

Quit treating the Palestinians like dumb brutes with no options of their own just so you can justify supporting your desire to see Israel gone one day.

/rant

This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This .


Also This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This....
 
2012-11-16 11:27:56 PM

puppetmaster745: Lunaville: I'm trying to remain rational and make an honest effort to understand the issues involved in the conflict between Israel and Palestine. However, I am beginning to feel that Hamas and Netanyahu are the common enemies of the Palestinian and Israeli people. Each inflicts violence on civilians.

Really? Hamas fires unguided missiles at populated areas. Israel takes out missile sites with precision strikes, but OH NO, the missile site was located on a school playground. GENOCIDE!


Hamas uses the roof of an apartment building to shoot off some rockets blindly at populated parts of Israel, then pack up and head back to a safe area. The IDF then shoots rockets and hundreds of rounds of bullets at that building from helicopters after the guys from Hamas have left, knowing that there is little to no chance than anyone from Hamas is still there and knowingly kill and wound a bunch of non-combatants including women and children. Both sides are wrong and should be classified as war criminals and anyone who supports either side is either wearing blinders that keep them from seeing the truth, or knowingly support murderers and attempted murderers...
 
2012-11-17 12:21:32 AM

scalpod: Amurica...Fark Ya!: Duuurrrrrr......religion.....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r


/it's 2012 for fark's sake
//science ftw

Yeah, it's not like God gave anyone those rockets.


If God cared, he'd have told them to stop being stupid long ago. Of course, it's hard to care about anything when you don't exist.
 
2012-11-17 12:26:24 AM

SpectroBoy: AverageAmericanGuy: That's the difference between Jews, Christians, and Muslims. Christians don't believe that The Law holds any sway over believers. Therefore holy sites are nice tourist attractions, but don't have any intrinsic spiritual value.

Bullshiat. If some group of people was shelling the Vatican I sincerely doubt the Catholics would "turn the other cheeks" and just go live somewhere else.


Well, I said 'Christians', not 'Mary worshipping cultists'.
 
2012-11-17 02:53:43 AM
No evidence, but guessing this is happening because of Syria and not because of the Israeli elections. In the last months the UK and other western powers have been preparing to open up the support funnels for the Syrian opposition -- of course not through Israel but through Turkey, our closest ally that borders Syria other than Israel. Last week the western media announced the formation of some kind of accord among factions of the Syrian opposition on supplies, meaning some entity has taken shape that can receive support through Turkey.

Maybe Assad's gang and whatever allies they have left in the region are getting desperate and wanted to do something to suck all the air out of the Syrian internal conflict, so they engineered intensifying attacks from Gaza to provoke the Israelis into a response.
 
2012-11-17 03:08:42 AM
The UK is taking the lead on backing the Syrian rebels and the BBC has been reporting it.

Link
 
2012-11-17 03:35:02 AM

4tehsnowflakes: The UK is taking the lead on backing the Syrian rebels and the BBC has been reporting it.


The Guardian started reporting it a couple days ago. ;)

I don't think it's necessary to go to Syria for reasons. There's the continuing blockade and economic control, and there's the pending Nov 29 UN resolution which would diminish Hamas's legal power, in addition to more than half a century of blood and a population of 1.7 million people are mostly under 30.

The most likely scenario is that Hamas stepped up their rocket attacks in response to Abbas's pending motion at the UN, to derail it. The early Israeli internal politics, you could attach any amount of conspiracy theories to. Egyptian officials confirm that Jabari (the commander Israel assassinated first), was deeply involved in peace talks, but Egypt isn't without reason to lie about that.

I think you could rightly say it's a clusterfark.
 
2012-11-17 04:03:07 AM

starsrift: 4tehsnowflakes: the BBC has been reporting it.

The Guardian started reporting it a couple days ago. ;)

I don't think it's necessary to go to Syria for reasons. There's the continuing blockade and economic control, and there's the pending Nov 29 UN resolution which would diminish Hamas's legal power, in addition to more than half a century of blood and a population of 1.7 million people are mostly under 30.

The most likely scenario is that Hamas stepped up their rocket attacks in response to Abbas's pending motion at the UN, to derail it. The early Israeli internal politics, you could attach any amount of conspiracy theories to. Egyptian officials confirm that Jabari (the commander Israel assassinated first), was deeply involved in peace talks, but Egypt isn't without reason to lie about that.

I think you could rightly say it's a clusterfark.


Yes, you could. And you are right, given the volatility of the region my Syria conspiracy theory is unnecessary, but it seemed plausible when I pulled it out of my ... bum as they say in the UK ... and will in any case be very hard for anyone to disprove.
 
2012-11-17 04:07:50 AM

4tehsnowflakes: Yes, you could. And you are right, given the volatility of the region my Syria conspiracy theory is unnecessary, but it seemed plausible when I pulled it out of my ... bum as they say in the UK ... and will in any case be very hard for anyone to disprove.


If you really want to go for maximum conspiracy theory, you could point out that both Israel as well as Hamas-controlled Gaza want to see Abbas's resolution in the UN to fail, and despite over 600 strikes on alleged Hamas locations, they've only taken out 4 militants - including Jabari - so far, even managing to take out a Hamas commander's house while it was empty. Personally, I favour a theory of simple IDF incompetence, but hell. There's enough derp to go around.
 
2012-11-17 05:23:21 AM
Where are the flashing news tags for every one of scores of missiles Israel pounds into Palestinian civilian buildings?

It's a newsflash when Hamas lands a bottle rocket in a street, but what happens when Israel drones takes out four children? Nothing.
 
2012-11-17 05:38:31 AM

RobTheNerd: Where are the flashing news tags for every one of scores of missiles Israel pounds into Palestinian civilian buildings?

It's a newsflash when Hamas lands a bottle rocket in a street, but what happens when Israel drones takes out four children? Nothing.


Because it doesn't fit the narrative, that's why.
 
2012-11-17 08:25:49 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: SpectroBoy: AverageAmericanGuy: That's the difference between Jews, Christians, and Muslims. Christians don't believe that The Law holds any sway over believers. Therefore holy sites are nice tourist attractions, but don't have any intrinsic spiritual value.

Bullshiat. If some group of people was shelling the Vatican I sincerely doubt the Catholics would "turn the other cheeks" and just go live somewhere else.

Well, I said 'Christians', not 'Mary worshipping cultists'.


0/10
 
2012-11-17 11:12:31 AM
Yeah yesterday I was getting out of the shower and I had to rush to put on my pants.

I was forced by terrorists to put on pants.

FARK YOU HAMAS.
 
2012-11-17 11:12:38 AM
Whenever anybody does something, in order to form a moral opinion about it, I first ask...

are they a Jew?
 
2012-11-17 11:19:57 AM

RobTheNerd: Where are the flashing news tags for every one of scores of missiles Israel pounds into Palestinian civilian buildings?

It's a newsflash when Hamas lands a bottle rocket in a street, but what happens when Israel drones takes out four children? Nothing.


I don't know where you live, but where I live Israel only needs to fart and it's all over our establishment media organ, the Bolshevik Broadcasters of Communism.
 
2012-11-17 11:33:51 AM

give me doughnuts: that bosnian sniper: Oh god, a rocket, shiat's done got real now. Or is this just the lucky one that made it through half the Gaza strip being carpeted in willy pete several times over now?

You knopw what burns hotter than white phosphorus?


Promptly critical plutonium?
 
2012-11-18 06:12:05 AM

ISO15693: liam76: ISO15693: So... Tell me how you feel about us Mormons?

Mormons aren't chirstians.


Good thing, too. We'd have to change the name of our church, to the Cuhrch of Jsues Chirst of Lttaer-day Snaits.


Your name doesn't matter.

Would you say I was a Mormon if I said I was and named my church the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Latter-day Saints" and claimed that I believed in Jesus from the Bible, and Jesus from the book of Mormon, but that Jesus visited me last year and had me write the "book of mormon, for reals" and that trumped the other Holy books. It also included new rules, I could ignore many of the old rules, and here was a completely different afterlife.
 
2012-11-18 05:43:48 PM

RobTheNerd: Where are the flashing news tags for every one of scores of missiles Israel pounds into Palestinian civilian buildings?

It's a newsflash when Hamas lands a bottle rocket in a street, but what happens when Israel drones takes out four children? Nothing.


Lol wut?

Its precisely because of the extensive coverage of every israeli response that Hamas keeps goading them.

Hamas strategy:

1. Launch a bunch of rockets into Israel
2. Hide those responsible in hospitals, schools, orphanages, any place that can evoke an emotional response if it takes collateral damage.
3. Wait until Israel, despite its best efforts to avoid civilian deaths, injures or kills one of Hamas' human shields, or someone nearby who is photogenic.
4. Take LOTS of photos and videos of the injured human shield, children, old women, anything that those not informed about the conflict would look at and have a knee-jerk "THATS HORRIBLE, HOW COULD THEY??" reaction, release to the news media, and Israel's public opinion worldwide drops a bit.
5. Repeat.

This is their goal right now (one of them) - to goad israel into killing a few civillians, no matter how many hamas terrorists are killed too. Its the civillian deaths Hamas wants, and needs and mines for public opinion.

But anyone who has been following along realizes how these deaths are precious to Hamas for PR, and exactly what hamas is striving for. The only chance they have is to manipulate the manipulatable with these made-for-tv newsbites of "israeli attrocities" that would have had zero chance of happening if Hamas hadn't done everything it could to make that scenario play out.

Israel, to its credit, has been remarkable restrained - but I am sensing they are about to say "fark it, this is getting old. " - but they've been targeting symbols of Hamas authority, trying to demoralize Hamas supporters, and weaken Hamas politically, instead of just killing everyone.

Turn things around - give Hamas ALL of Israel's technology, and limit Israel to only Hamas' current technology - do you think Hamas would be as restrained? Of course not. Hamas would not hesitate to nuke Israel. Not for a moment.

There is no symmetry here. Israel has been a nation as currently constituted longer than what, 30 or so other countries that are currently recognized as nations? They aren't "occupiers" any more than the english descendants of New Zealand, or the European descendants in the US are an occupiers. They are a recognized nation that is continually attacked by enemies striving to eliminate if for philospohical and religious reasons, and a hatred that actually gives them identity. It's extremely hard to combat that sort of generational derpiness. Israel's response has been extremely restrained, imho.
 
2012-11-18 06:03:13 PM

liam76: ISO15693: liam76: ISO15693: So... Tell me how you feel about us Mormons?

Mormons aren't chirstians.


Good thing, too. We'd have to change the name of our church, to the Cuhrch of Jsues Chirst of Lttaer-day Snaits.

Your name doesn't matter.

Would you say I was a Mormon if I said I was and named my church the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Latter-day Saints" and claimed that I believed in Jesus from the Bible, and Jesus from the book of Mormon, but that Jesus visited me last year and had me write the "book of mormon, for reals" and that trumped the other Holy books. It also included new rules, I could ignore many of the old rules, and here was a completely different afterlife.


Of course I wouldnt believe some random guy making those claims. Thats what the "holy spirit of truth" , the "counselor" that was sent to us for, that Christ speaks of, to testify what is true, and what isnt.

Otherwise anyone could claim or print anything, duh. How else would be be able to determine who is a true prophet and who is a false prophet? Think before you ask such silly things :)
 
2012-11-18 06:53:24 PM

ISO15693: liam76: ISO15693: liam76: ISO15693: So... Tell me how you feel about us Mormons?

Mormons aren't chirstians.


Good thing, too. We'd have to change the name of our church, to the Cuhrch of Jsues Chirst of Lttaer-day Snaits.

Your name doesn't matter.

Would you say I was a Mormon if I said I was and named my church the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Latter-day Saints" and claimed that I believed in Jesus from the Bible, and Jesus from the book of Mormon, but that Jesus visited me last year and had me write the "book of mormon, for reals" and that trumped the other Holy books. It also included new rules, I could ignore many of the old rules, and here was a completely different afterlife.

Of course I wouldnt believe some random guy making those claims. Thats what the "holy spirit of truth" , the "counselor" that was sent to us for, that Christ speaks of, to testify what is true, and what isnt.

Otherwise anyone could claim or print anything, duh. How else would be be able to determine who is a true prophet and who is a false prophet? Think before you ask such silly things :)



Might want to re-read what I wrote.

I am not asking you to believe any of that.

I am asking if you would consider me Mormon if I explained to you that was the name of my church and those were my beliefs.

Because that is what it is like when Mormons say they are Christians tot he rest of Christianity.
 
2012-11-18 08:28:35 PM

liam76: ISO15693: liam76: ISO15693: liam76: ISO15693: So... Tell me how you feel about us Mormons?

Mormons aren't chirstians.


Good thing, too. We'd have to change the name of our church, to the Cuhrch of Jsues Chirst of Lttaer-day Snaits.

Your name doesn't matter.

Would you say I was a Mormon if I said I was and named my church the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Latter-day Saints" and claimed that I believed in Jesus from the Bible, and Jesus from the book of Mormon, but that Jesus visited me last year and had me write the "book of mormon, for reals" and that trumped the other Holy books. It also included new rules, I could ignore many of the old rules, and here was a completely different afterlife.

Of course I wouldnt believe some random guy making those claims. Thats what the "holy spirit of truth" , the "counselor" that was sent to us for, that Christ speaks of, to testify what is true, and what isnt.

Otherwise anyone could claim or print anything, duh. How else would be be able to determine who is a true prophet and who is a false prophet? Think before you ask such silly things :)


Might want to re-read what I wrote.

I am not asking you to believe any of that.

I am asking if you would consider me Mormon if I explained to you that was the name of my church and those were my beliefs.
.


And I'm saying no, I wouldnt consider your church LDS (Mormon), because, again, you would fail the basic Christianity test. You would just be a guy claiming to be Mormon, without any backing support from the Spirit. See now? ;D
 
2012-11-18 08:29:50 PM
Oh, scrolling back - I can see that you are just a troll.

Hah. I fell for your idiocy. Carry on.

/facepalm
 
2012-11-18 08:53:27 PM

ISO15693: liam76: ISO15693: liam76: ISO15693: liam76: ISO15693: So... Tell me how you feel about us Mormons?

Mormons aren't chirstians.


Good thing, too. We'd have to change the name of our church, to the Cuhrch of Jsues Chirst of Lttaer-day Snaits.

Your name doesn't matter.

Would you say I was a Mormon if I said I was and named my church the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Latter-day Saints" and claimed that I believed in Jesus from the Bible, and Jesus from the book of Mormon, but that Jesus visited me last year and had me write the "book of mormon, for reals" and that trumped the other Holy books. It also included new rules, I could ignore many of the old rules, and here was a completely different afterlife.

Of course I wouldnt believe some random guy making those claims. Thats what the "holy spirit of truth" , the "counselor" that was sent to us for, that Christ speaks of, to testify what is true, and what isnt.

Otherwise anyone could claim or print anything, duh. How else would be be able to determine who is a true prophet and who is a false prophet? Think before you ask such silly things :)


Might want to re-read what I wrote.

I am not asking you to believe any of that.

I am asking if you would consider me Mormon if I explained to you that was the name of my church and those were my beliefs.
.

And I'm saying no, I wouldnt consider your church LDS (Mormon), because, again, you would fail the basic Christianity test. You would just be a guy claiming to be Mormon, without any backing support from the Spirit. See now? ;D


Just as you fail the basic Christianity test.

See now? ; D
 
2012-11-18 09:00:33 PM

ISO15693: Oh, scrolling back - I can see that you are just a troll.

Hah. I fell for your idiocy. Carry on.

/facepalm


How am I troll?

I am simply putting the differences between Christianity and Mormonism in perspective for you by comparing Mormonism to faith that branches off in a similar manner.

That you are calling that trolling makes me think you have never really examined your faith in relation to Christianity.
 
2012-11-19 05:17:21 PM
ISO15693
This is their goal right now (one of them) - to goad israel into killing a few civillians, no matter how many hamas terrorists are killed too. Its the civillian deaths Hamas wants, and needs and mines for public opinion.

And Israel just lets themselves be goaded, hm? Darn that Hamas, making them fall for their trick even though they apparently know exactly how it works.
 
2012-11-19 07:53:59 PM

RanDomino: ISO15693
This is their goal right now (one of them) - to goad israel into killing a few civillians, no matter how many hamas terrorists are killed too. Its the civillian deaths Hamas wants, and needs and mines for public opinion.

And Israel just lets themselves be goaded, hm? Darn that Hamas, making them fall for their trick even though they apparently know exactly how it works.


Idiotic strawman is idiotic.
 
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