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(Betabeat)   Pentagon Spends $100K to Ask, 'Did Jesus Die for Klingons Too?' -- And Doesn't Even Get An Answer   (betabeat.com) divider line 49
    More: Stupid, Pentagon Spends, Klingon, Swoon Hypothesis, interstellar space, Christian theology  
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2828 clicks; posted to Geek » on 16 Nov 2012 at 12:00 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-16 12:08:35 PM  
Well, did he?
 
2012-11-16 12:08:39 PM  
I always thought the Klingon religion was more based around Wagner's Ring cycle.
 
2012-11-16 12:10:24 PM  
"That is not how science conferences work! I will destroy you!"
 
2012-11-16 12:12:23 PM  
Klingons killed their gods.

Klingons were smart.
 
2012-11-16 12:14:06 PM  
DOD often funds far out shiat. In this case it is obvious the money went mostly to discussions of "interstellar travel", which even NASA doesn't fund anymore. Discussions are the right way to fund interstellar travel, because we don't know how to realistically do it yet with any current technology. We need a crazy idea.

So if a few people want to break out and chat about the implications of Christian theology to the discovery of alien life at the same meeting, how about letting them do it? Unless, Senator Coburn, you are so dumb not to realize the implications on your majority Christian constituents of encountering a sentient race.
 
2012-11-16 12:15:40 PM  
Actually, that is an interesting theological question. I'd suspect that no, He wouldn't have, as to the christians his death was to purge humans of original sin. Or something.

An Alien may not even have original sin, as they may never have went against God, or they might have had a different creation, etc. If they had sin, they could have had their own savior at some point.

Then again, that goes down tot he idea they even have our style of religion.


More interesting could be how it changes our religious beliefs if we find Aliens have some belief in common. If the greys all end up being space Taoists, that's going to change things.
 
2012-11-16 12:25:23 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Klingons killed their gods.

Klingons were smart.


images1.wikia.nocookie.net

Ms. Hol approves
 
2012-11-16 12:27:22 PM  
zs1.smbc-comics.com
 
2012-11-16 12:35:23 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Klingons killed their gods.

Klingons were smart.


And yet, something judges them upon death and decides their fate. the mechanic or who is doing that was never explained.
 
2012-11-16 12:39:48 PM  
The only deity I recognize is Grabthar.
 
2012-11-16 12:43:33 PM  
Do you really think Klingons would accept the whole "turn the other cheek" thingy?
 
2012-11-16 12:45:40 PM  
FTA: "$100,000 for a 2011 workshop on interstellar space travel that included a session entitled "Did Jesus die for Klingons too?"

Still silly.
 
2012-11-16 12:47:20 PM  

Cheese eating surrender monkey: Do you really think Klingons would accept the whole "turn the other cheek" thingy?


yeah, more like "Rip his other cheek right off, eat it in defiance, and take command of his ship"
 
2012-11-16 12:57:04 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: FTA: "$100,000 for a 2011 workshop on interstellar space travel that included a session entitled "Did Jesus die for Klingons too?"

Still silly.


Still not nearly the waste of money the F-35 program has been. Why is the focus only on NON-security spending? Why do they assume all security spending is automatically legitimate. Oh yeah, that's right...pork barrel spending.
 
2012-11-16 01:11:25 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: AliceBToklasLives: FTA: "$100,000 for a 2011 workshop on interstellar space travel that included a session entitled "Did Jesus die for Klingons too?"

Still silly.

Still not nearly the waste of money the F-35 program has been. Why is the focus only on NON-security spending? Why do they assume all security spending is automatically legitimate. Oh yeah, that's right...pork barrel spending.


Because F-35's make cool explosions that our military needs to walk away from in slow motion without looking back. ...or at least they will. ...someday. ...we just need another extension on delivery and one more advance on the final payment.

Does anyone in the Pentagon even speak Klingon? That might help with the "no answer" part.
 
2012-11-16 01:21:33 PM  
The DOD funds this kind of thing because to lead the free world, you have to be able to think. To find out if you can think, you have to think of things people haven't already hashed out a billion times over. So, a think tank will have exercises where they think weird things for science, to explore the places that our minds don't go, the darkened corners of the room where we should be looking but aren't.
 
2012-11-16 01:31:51 PM  

Antimatter: Actually, that is an interesting theological question. I'd suspect that no, He wouldn't have, as to the christians his death was to purge humans of original sin. Or something.

An Alien may not even have original sin, as they may never have went against God, or they might have had a different creation, etc. If they had sin, they could have had their own savior at some point.

Then again, that goes down tot he idea they even have our style of religion.


More interesting could be how it changes our religious beliefs if we find Aliens have some belief in common. If the greys all end up being space Taoists, that's going to change things.


CS Lewis' science-fiction plays with these ideas in some interesting ways
 
2012-11-16 01:34:20 PM  

ChaoticLimbs: The DOD funds this kind of thing because to lead the free world, you have to be able to think. To find out if you can think, you have to think of things people haven't already hashed out a billion times over. So, a think tank will have exercises where they think weird things for science, to explore the places that our minds don't go, the darkened corners of the room where we should be looking but aren't.


It's true. If you can't answer the question: "of what use is a chocolate manhole cover?" You shouldn't be allowed to be in a position of governmental authority
 
2012-11-16 01:57:31 PM  
Jesus walks among us; he's just cloaked.
 
2012-11-16 02:31:25 PM  
It's too bad subby took this shiatty article at face value. The money was for an entire 3-day scientific symposium which, among dozens of other sessions, considered the theological and philosophical implications of extraterrestrial life. But, nooooooo, I'm sure the Pentagon actually spent $100K to consider the effect of Christ on literal Klingons.

[STUPID] tag, indeed.
 
2012-11-16 02:32:55 PM  

Bacontastesgood: DOD often funds far out shiat. In this case it is obvious the money went mostly to discussions of "interstellar travel", which even NASA doesn't fund anymore. Discussions are the right way to fund interstellar travel, because we don't know how to realistically do it yet with any current technology. We need a crazy idea.

So if a few people want to break out and chat about the implications of Christian theology to the discovery of alien life at the same meeting, how about letting them do it? Unless, Senator Coburn, you are so dumb not to realize the implications on your majority Christian constituents of encountering a sentient race.



Ah ok, you've convinced me. This is a perfectly reasonable use of our tax dollars.

No but seriously we could cut the defense budget in half tomorrow and be just as safe. Probably safer if this is the shiat the DOD is actually funding and discussing.

Defense budget cut in half, fiscal cliff gone. Simple.
 
2012-11-16 02:33:19 PM  
Weeners from the article is worth reading...
"This article refers to the 100 year starship symposium; it was a one-off thing, and a lot of serious science was discussed here. Yes, some theological stuff was discussed there, but that's not the same as paying 100k to ask this question. Link to agenda"

Some other sessions from this "wasteful" event:
-Nuclear Thermal Propulsion
-Long Term Computing
-Modular Aneutronic Fusion Engine for an Alpha Centauri Mission
-ISS Life Support Lessons Learned
-Recent Developments in Interstellar Beam-Driven Sails

Yeah, sounds like a totally unscientific waste of taxpayer money.
 
2012-11-16 02:33:54 PM  
WEENERS INDEED.
 
2012-11-16 02:40:20 PM  
As a very religious friend of mine pointed out, the Bible only talks about "the world", not the Universe. God doesn't give a damn about aliens. But, to be fair, God doesn't give a damn about anyone who isn't Jewish, so there's that.
 
2012-11-16 03:35:30 PM  
CS Lewis already wrote about this. Back in the days when science and religion were not polarized quite so much by the derp.
 
2012-11-16 03:38:03 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: FTA: "$100,000 for a 2011 workshop on interstellar space travel that included a session entitled "Did Jesus die for Klingons too?"

Still silly.


That is a bit better. But how much funding does it take for someone to stand at a podium and say "The Vatican and CS Lewis already dealt with this. Go read what they wrote" ?
 
2012-11-16 03:39:20 PM  
\shakes tiny space-fist at towatchoverme.
 
2012-11-16 03:46:49 PM  
DOD - a prime example of when politicians from both parties insist that unlimited funding must not only have no public oversight but also must never be cut.
 
2012-11-16 03:50:55 PM  
I'm glad a few people have already rebuked the inaccuracy of the headline. Good work.
 
2012-11-16 05:08:46 PM  
images1.wikia.nocookie.net

"Yo."
 
2012-11-16 05:16:57 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: "Yo."


Well, if we can have that episode, in which Worf learns to think like a nineteenth-century German Protestant theologian, I guess we can ask if Jesus died for Klingons. Turnabout and all that.
 
2012-11-16 05:23:00 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: FTA: "$100,000 for a 2011 workshop on interstellar space travel that included a session entitled "Did Jesus die for Klingons too?"

Still silly.


The rest of the quote is: "The session probed how Christian theology would apply in the event of the discovery of aliens."

Short answer: it won't...
 
2012-11-16 05:46:37 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: [images1.wikia.nocookie.net image 467x338]

"Yo."


Kahless wasn't a god! He just... had a prophesy surrounding him about how he would return from the dead and save the Klingon empire.
 
2012-11-16 05:48:27 PM  

Son of Thunder: Keizer_Ghidorah: "Yo."

Well, if we can have that episode, in which Worf learns to think like a nineteenth-century German Protestant theologian, I guess we can ask if Jesus died for Klingons. Turnabout and all that.


It's an interesting episode. some priests who were concerned about the decline of the faith and Klingon spirit ,clone their version of Jesus/Buddha/etc, and present him as his second coming.

In the end, after the ruse is exposed, they actually decide this could be a good thing, as now they have the perfect figurehead to guide and shape the Klingon race. So they crown him emperor as a Queen of England style figurehead.

What I loved what they picked an overweight actor to play the greatest Klingon warrior ever. You'd think the guy would have been stronger/more battle worthy.
 
2012-11-16 05:50:14 PM  

TeDDD: It's too bad subby took this shiatty article at face value. The money was for an entire 3-day scientific symposium which, among dozens of other sessions, considered the theological and philosophical implications of extraterrestrial life. But, nooooooo, I'm sure the Pentagon actually spent $100K to consider the effect of Christ on literal Klingons.

[STUPID] tag, indeed.



This. It's S.O.P. for these supposed government waste crusaders to grossly mischaracterize science and art grant-funded activities as much as possible, generating BS which then gets eagerly eaten up by Limbaugh listener types.

"Folks, those liberal eggheads are at it again!" etc.

Oh noes, one panel at a conference had a humorous title! Burn the tax-wasting witches!
 
2012-11-16 05:51:00 PM  
no, the answer is no

/could have saved you a truck-load of money
 
2012-11-16 06:09:04 PM  

Antimatter: Son of Thunder: Keizer_Ghidorah: "Yo."

Well, if we can have that episode, in which Worf learns to think like a nineteenth-century German Protestant theologian, I guess we can ask if Jesus died for Klingons. Turnabout and all that.

It's an interesting episode. some priests who were concerned about the decline of the faith and Klingon spirit ,clone their version of Jesus/Buddha/etc, and present him as his second coming.

In the end, after the ruse is exposed, they actually decide this could be a good thing, as now they have the perfect figurehead to guide and shape the Klingon race. So they crown him emperor as a Queen of England style figurehead.

What I loved what they picked an overweight actor to play the greatest Klingon warrior ever. You'd think the guy would have been stronger/more battle worthy.


Notably thereafter the character vanishes in a puff of narrative.
 
2012-11-16 06:27:31 PM  

Antimatter: FirstNationalBastard: Klingons killed their gods.

Klingons were smart.

And yet, something judges them upon death and decides their fate. the mechanic or who is doing that was never explained.


www.yourprops.com
 
2012-11-16 06:40:07 PM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Antimatter: FirstNationalBastard: Klingons killed their gods.

Klingons were smart.

And yet, something judges them upon death and decides their fate. the mechanic or who is doing that was never explained.

[www.yourprops.com image 600x512]


Nice try Ardra.
 
2012-11-16 06:48:18 PM  
change the earth rather than change human behavior. and how, exactly has that worked out so far?
i mean, hey, why don't we continue to build technology centers on faultlines and near volcanic activity, and major cities near the shore but below sea level. yeah, that shows a really progressive view towards future generations. but hey, the earth is suppose to cooperate because we are gods, right? and it is all for us and to serve our abstract desires that are nowhere even near in line with natural law and a planet that has proven to us through scientific study that it is ALWAYS CHANGING.
and these are the people we consider intelligent and wise? give me a frakkin break.
 
2012-11-16 07:09:25 PM  
No they did not spend $100,000 to answer that question.

fark.
 
2012-11-16 08:06:00 PM  

Antimatter: Son of Thunder: Keizer_Ghidorah: "Yo."

Well, if we can have that episode, in which Worf learns to think like a nineteenth-century German Protestant theologian, I guess we can ask if Jesus died for Klingons. Turnabout and all that.

It's an interesting episode. some priests who were concerned about the decline of the faith and Klingon spirit ,clone their version of Jesus/Buddha/etc, and present him as his second coming.

In the end, after the ruse is exposed, they actually decide this could be a good thing, as now they have the perfect figurehead to guide and shape the Klingon race. So they crown him emperor as a Queen of England style figurehead.

What I loved what they picked an overweight actor to play the greatest Klingon warrior ever. You'd think the guy would have been stronger/more battle worthy.


Kahless loved life and lived large. He fought big, drank big, and ate big.

Plus, stout strength is not to be underestimated. 

/warning: tvtropes links will waste more of your day than even fark threads about Star Trek
 
2012-11-16 08:09:16 PM  

Nurglitch: Antimatter: Son of Thunder: Keizer_Ghidorah: "Yo."

Well, if we can have that episode, in which Worf learns to think like a nineteenth-century German Protestant theologian, I guess we can ask if Jesus died for Klingons. Turnabout and all that.

It's an interesting episode. some priests who were concerned about the decline of the faith and Klingon spirit ,clone their version of Jesus/Buddha/etc, and present him as his second coming.

In the end, after the ruse is exposed, they actually decide this could be a good thing, as now they have the perfect figurehead to guide and shape the Klingon race. So they crown him emperor as a Queen of England style figurehead.

What I loved what they picked an overweight actor to play the greatest Klingon warrior ever. You'd think the guy would have been stronger/more battle worthy.

Notably thereafter the character vanishes in a puff of narrative.


Sad. So much potential.

It would never have been created, but I always thought it might have been a fun episode for the actual Kahless to come back (wormhole or warping around a sun or crashed into the Guardian of Forever or something, so the atheists don't get butthurt) and ask "Who's this fraud sitting on my throne?"
 
2012-11-16 09:15:45 PM  
Ugh. Typical cherry-picking politicking.
 
2012-11-16 09:53:49 PM  
sue_phi 2012-11-16 06:48:18 PM

change the earth rather than change human behavior. and waahh waahh dribble *PLONK*
 
2012-11-16 10:23:49 PM  

ProfessorOhki: The All-Powerful Atheismo: Antimatter: FirstNationalBastard: Klingons killed their gods.

Klingons were smart.

And yet, something judges them upon death and decides their fate. the mechanic or who is doing that was never explained.

[www.yourprops.com image 600x512]

Nice try Ardra.



Nice try, Zarflax! (NSFW)
 
2012-11-16 10:27:25 PM  

sue_phi: change the earth rather than change human behavior. and how, exactly has that worked out so far?
i mean, hey, why don't we continue to build technology centers on faultlines and near volcanic activity, and major cities near the shore but below sea level. yeah, that shows a really progressive view towards future generations. but hey, the earth is suppose to cooperate because we are gods, right? and it is all for us and to serve our abstract desires that are nowhere even near in line with natural law and a planet that has proven to us through scientific study that it is ALWAYS CHANGING.
and these are the people we consider intelligent and wise? give me a frakkin break.

Someone

started the weekend promptly.
 
2012-11-17 03:30:46 PM  
Antimatter: Actually, that is an interesting theological question.

Maybe, but the REAL reason they think about these things is because it's an important social question.

Look at it this way:

- NASA finds some proof that intelligent aliens exist

- Religious authorities freak the hell out and start fighting among themselves over What This Means

- Civil unrest, terrorism, war, and economic collapse ensue

That could very seriously happen. Believe it. European churches freaked the hell out over the discovery of happy pagans in the New World.

And, actually, this is not the first time that serious government studies on this kind of issue have been done. They usually come up with dire projections. It's a good idea to have some advance notion of how to deal with it.
 
2012-11-17 03:57:05 PM  

RandomAxe: Antimatter: Actually, that is an interesting theological question.

Maybe, but the REAL reason they think about these things is because it's an important social question.

Look at it this way:

- NASA finds some proof that intelligent aliens exist

- Religious authorities freak the hell out and start fighting among themselves over What This Means

- Civil unrest, terrorism, war, and economic collapse ensue

That could very seriously happen. Believe it. European churches freaked the hell out over the discovery of happy pagans in the New World.

And, actually, this is not the first time that serious government studies on this kind of issue have been done. They usually come up with dire projections. It's a good idea to have some advance notion of how to deal with it.


So what you're saying is that church and state aren't really separate in the US? unpossible
 
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