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(Politico)   A week and a half after the elections, five seats in the House of Representatives are too close to call. Of course, Democrats are leading in all of them. How did you know?   (politico.com) divider line 101
    More: Obvious, U.S. House, Mike McIntyre, precincts reporting  
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3850 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Nov 2012 at 6:35 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-16 08:19:01 AM  
assets.motherjones.com
 
2012-11-16 08:26:17 AM  

Baz744: bugontherug: Tommy Moo: I eagerly await the statistics on nationwide popular vote for House representatives

They're already in. The Democrats won the national popular vote for House of Representatives.

Link

The GOP House of Representatives has neither political legitimacy, nor moral authority.

Wow. The Democrats won the national popular vote for House by a million votes, but still have only an inconsequential minority in it?

Between this kind of crap and the electoral college, our democracy is a travesty.


Well, yeah, considering the fact that the founders that crafted this "Democracy" hated the notion and wanted to try a different system. We're not a Democracy, we are a Representative Republic.
 
2012-11-16 08:26:39 AM  
dopirt:

d23: curvy brunettes

One vote for curvy brunettes.


Bah. Curvy blondes are where it's at.
 
2012-11-16 08:29:45 AM  
If these gerrymandered districts create too many close calls, it could actually make it easier to flip a whole bunch of seats all at once with a few extra %.. Has anyone made a list yet of the most vulnerable Republicans for 2014? Are there enough to flip the house?
 
2012-11-16 08:32:04 AM  

Tommy Moo: The process should be done by computer algorithm. Districts are drawn by state legislatures, which gives state governments an unfair ability to influence the makeup of the federal government. A voter should be able to vote for one party in state elections and the other party in federal elections without it being a conflict of interests.


Even better: we can let the legislatures (or anybody else) draw the districts, and simply require that the do so such that the Hausdorff dimension of the resulting shapes be less than ~1.1 or 1.2 (exact number needs a bit of research to determine the best cutoff value).
 
2012-11-16 08:32:45 AM  
mksmith:

maxheck: I live in one of the saner states, though in a very red district. I offered my driver's license unrequested and told the nice little-old-lady my name, she checked my name on a list and handed my ID back and pointed me to another official who pointed me onward to the polling booth. 5 minutes later I had done my part for democracy. (or not.)

Here in Louisiana, you have to produce an official ID of one kind or another. Often, several precincts vote at a single school or wherever. So they check your ID against the printed list of registered voters for your precinct and you sign your name in the space next to it, and then you line up in front of the antique voting machine. (You're not allowed to feed the squirrels spinning the cage attached to the machine.)

If you're in the wrong precinct line -- or the wrong freaking gymnasium -- they can look at the address on your ID and tell you where to go. And they're remarkably polite about it.

Not many things having to do with government work very well in Louisiana, but this actually seems to be one of them.


I have nothing bad to say about most poll workers... They tend to be elderly sorts who actually give a damn, which makes me happy.
 
2012-11-16 08:34:38 AM  
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-11-16 08:35:11 AM  

maxheck: dopirt:

d23: curvy brunettes

One vote for curvy brunettes.

Bah. Curvy blondes are where it's at.



Why not both?
 
2012-11-16 08:40:12 AM  
Wyalt Derp:

maxheck: dopirt:

d23: curvy brunettes

One vote for curvy brunettes.

Bah. Curvy blondes are where it's at.


Why not both?


There is that. Include curvy redheads and we have a big-tent party.

/ getting a tent just thinking about it.
 
2012-11-16 08:40:34 AM  

maxheck: I have nothing bad to say about most poll workers... They tend to be elderly sorts who actually give a damn, which makes me happy.


When me and the fam went a voting there was an older woman directing people. She was polite but you could tell that she was very tired and had been through a very long day.

I made sure to thank her for her efforts and she hugged me.

When we voted there was a little table with paper and crayons where the kids could color in an American flag.

Before we left I had the kids color in a flag and give it to the poll worker. The smile on her face was a mile wide.
 
2012-11-16 08:42:02 AM  

dopirt: d23: curvy brunettes

One vote for curvy brunettes.


Seconded!

And I would like to submit the following evidence in support of the motion: 

fc01.deviantart.net 

/And what a sweet, sweet motion it must be......
 
2012-11-16 08:42:52 AM  

DjangoStonereaver: dopirt: d23: curvy brunettes

One vote for curvy brunettes.

Seconded!

And I would like to submit the following evidence in support of the motion: 

[fc01.deviantart.net image 600x900] 

/And what a sweet, sweet motion it must be......


Is that a watermelon thief?
 
2012-11-16 08:44:19 AM  
There is now one last opportunity to compel Congress to remove Obama for ineligibility and thereby render null and void all legislation he signed and all appointments he made since 2009. It is up to the voters to compel the political leadership in Congress to remove Obama. Link
 
2012-11-16 08:44:28 AM  

Tommy Moo: It's strange that Obama won the popular vote but the GOP kept the house. Is it likely that millions of Americans voted for Obama and a Republican for Congress?


A lot of it had to do with the size of the "war chests" this year. Numerous Democrats contributed to Obama's campaign but ignored their local races. Republican congressmen, on the other hand, can always raise a few million from businesses they've "nurtured" within their districts.
 
2012-11-16 08:46:50 AM  

DjangoStonereaver: Tommy Moo: jaytkay: Tommy Moo: I eagerly await the statistics on nationwide popular vote for House representatives. It's strange that Obama won the popular vote but the GOP kept the house. Is it likely that millions of Americans voted for Obama and a Republican for Congress?

A few points off the top of my head:

Obama won in Paul Ryan's district, so yes, it definitely happens.

Incumbents usually win.

Districts are re-drawn (yes, gerrymandered) every 10 years , so maybe they lag changing opinion

Alaska, Delaware, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, and Vermont have only one Representative each, so their voters count disproportionally

The process should be done by computer algorithm. Districts are drawn by state legislatures, which gives state governments an unfair ability to influence the makeup of the federal government. A voter should be able to vote for one party in state elections and the other party in federal elections without it being a conflict of interests.

Bbbbut.. State's Rights!

Seriously: as liberal as I am, I don't see a problem with each state's legislature deciding how to draw
districts in their own state.

Is the system rigged? You betcha, and this is truly a case of "Both sides are bad!", since the Dems
were and are doing such things in their strongholds for years*. But the GOP has been so nakedly brazen about it that you just have to laugh in between crying.

*I shall refrain from pointing out that a lot of the Democrats who gerrymandered in the
southern states to cut out black voters in years past would, in our current climate, probably have
moved to the GOP side because of Nixon's Southern Strategy; the NY Dems sure as hell mess with
their districts in NYC.


My grandfather worked in city politics in Chicago in the 1950s and 1960s. Thats big D Democratic for you kids just joining the discussion.

Some of the jobs he used to perform, or had people that reported to him perform:

1) Punching multiple ballots. They had a basement at a shop where over 20 of them stayed up all night in 1960 punching ballots for Kennedy. Thousands of ballots, many hours of work. All over the city other Ward Committeemen were doing the same. Thats old school cheating, it took muscle. You kids and your computers.

2) Need some more votes in your district? No problem. Check out an electoral map of the Chicago area some time. There are some districts that snake their way down single city streets for over a mile to connect different neighborhood voting blocs. It used to just be Democrats, now Republicans in the suburbs have gotten in on this game too.

3) Who needs dead people voting when you have the city and county clerk all tallying the vote? A lot of those figures never get checked. Certify the results, then go back and fix the numbers later if anyone asks.

To sum up: There are all kinds of ways to cheat in local elections, and people whose job it is to know how and make it happen. This is not new, in American cities especially it has been going on for centuries now. Good ol Democratic fun. Its been that way since the 1850s at the very least.

So latter-day complaints of Republican cheating completely misses the mark, we had over 100 years worth of cheating in favor of Democrats in large east coast (and San Franciscan) urban areas. Does it justify it, no it does not. But it points out the people crying for reform have zero sense of history or even of how the system has always "worked."

They don't get into politics because they want a fair fight. They get in because they want to win, because it gets them paid.
 
2012-11-16 08:57:49 AM  
Skarekrough:

maxheck: I have nothing bad to say about most poll workers... They tend to be elderly sorts who actually give a damn, which makes me happy.

When me and the fam went a voting there was an older woman directing people. She was polite but you could tell that she was very tired and had been through a very long day.

I made sure to thank her for her efforts and she hugged me.

When we voted there was a little table with paper and crayons where the kids could color in an American flag.

Before we left I had the kids color in a flag and give it to the poll worker. The smile on her face was a mile wide.


I know this is Fark, and everything has to go through the snark filter first, but...

That was cool to hear.
 
2012-11-16 08:58:40 AM  

Alphax: DjangoStonereaver: dopirt: d23: curvy brunettes

One vote for curvy brunettes.

Seconded!

And I would like to submit the following evidence in support of the motion: 

[fc01.deviantart.net image 600x900] 

/And what a sweet, sweet motion it must be......

Is that a watermelon thief?


Her name is Denise Milani, and I will help her smuggle watermelons any time. ANY TIME.
 
2012-11-16 08:59:28 AM  

mksmith: The Court used to be above the fray. Now it's just another agency of partisan politics.


and yet they get pissed off if called on it.
 
2012-11-16 09:02:06 AM  
Tyrants when they win, children when they lose.
 
2012-11-16 09:04:47 AM  

Zeno-25: [assets.motherjones.com image 630x566]


Oh, look. Both sides are bad.

/Marylander, and reasonably happy
 
2012-11-16 09:18:11 AM  

pivazena: I believe only 1/3 of the house was up for reelection this year.


Roughly 1/3 of the Senate was up for reelection because Senators server 6 year terms. Representatives only serve 2 year terms, so the whole House is up for reelection every 2 years.
 
2012-11-16 09:19:19 AM  

dopirt: d23: curvy brunettes

One vote for curvy brunettes.


You know,to be sure I think you should send over ten of each, plus some athletic red heads as a control group... you know, for science
 
2012-11-16 09:26:49 AM  
GIS for "curvy brunette war chest"

t2.gstatic.com

/I'll be in my bunk
 
2012-11-16 09:28:39 AM  

Generation_D: To sum up: There are all kinds of ways to cheat in local elections, and people whose job it is to know how and make it happen. This is not new, in American cities especially it has been going on for centuries now. Good ol Democratic fun. Its been that way since the 1850s at the very least.

So latter-day complaints of Republican cheating completely misses the mark, we had over 100 years worth of cheating in favor of Democrats in large east coast (and San Franciscan) urban areas. Does it justify it, no it does not. But it points out the people crying for reform have zero sense of history or even of how the system has always "worked."


Precisely; the reason the GOP has gotten so good at gerrymandering and other electoral
shenanigans is that they learned their craft from the Democrats.
 
2012-11-16 09:34:23 AM  

dopirt: d23: curvy brunettes

One vote for curvy brunettes.


Sorry, you've been redistricted. Your new district has selected "morbidly obese Steelers fans."
 
2012-11-16 09:36:57 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Here's a rundown of the races that remain uncalled:
Arizona's 2nd District. Democratic Rep. Ron Barber leads Republican Martha McSally 50.1 percent to 49.9 percent, or 698 votes, with 100 percent of precincts reporting.

California's 7th District. Democrat Ami Bera leads Republican Rep. Dan Lungren 50.4 percent to 49.6 percent with 100 percent of precincts reporting.

California's 52nd District. Democrat Scott Peters leads Republican Rep. Brian Bilbray 50.3 percent to 49.7 percent with 100 percent of precincts reporting.

Florida's 18th District. Democrat Patrick Murphy leads Republican Rep. Allen West 50.3 percent to 49.7 percent with 100 percent of precincts reporting.

North Carolina's 7th District. Democratic Rep. Mike McIntyre leads Republican David Rouzer 50.1 percent to 49.9 percent with 100 percent of precincts reporting.

... uncalled?

Either Politico is unclear on the meaning of "100 percent of precincts reporting", or I am. I know this is impolitic of me, but I'm kind of hoping it's Politico, I don't really wanna have to relearn math based on the assumption that 1 =/= 1.


Arizona CD 2 has thousands of provisional ballots that need to be qualified and voted.
 
2012-11-16 09:38:20 AM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Jim_Callahan: Here's a rundown of the races that remain uncalled:
Arizona's 2nd District. Democratic Rep. Ron Barber leads Republican Martha McSally 50.1 percent to 49.9 percent, or 698 votes, with 100 percent of precincts reporting.

California's 7th District. Democrat Ami Bera leads Republican Rep. Dan Lungren 50.4 percent to 49.6 percent with 100 percent of precincts reporting.

California's 52nd District. Democrat Scott Peters leads Republican Rep. Brian Bilbray 50.3 percent to 49.7 percent with 100 percent of precincts reporting.

Florida's 18th District. Democrat Patrick Murphy leads Republican Rep. Allen West 50.3 percent to 49.7 percent with 100 percent of precincts reporting.

North Carolina's 7th District. Democratic Rep. Mike McIntyre leads Republican David Rouzer 50.1 percent to 49.9 percent with 100 percent of precincts reporting.

... uncalled?

Either Politico is unclear on the meaning of "100 percent of precincts reporting", or I am. I know this is impolitic of me, but I'm kind of hoping it's Politico, I don't really wanna have to relearn math based on the assumption that 1 =/= 1.

Arizona CD 2 has thousands of provisional ballots that need to be qualified and voted.

*starts brewing more coffee* COUNTED. FTFM
 
2012-11-16 09:38:56 AM  
Crunching some numbers from NY Times's big board, if Democrats got a universal 5-point swing in vote (i.e. a race lost by 4 points becomes a race won by 1 point), the House would be 222-213. Republicans. Democrats need a SEVEN-point swing to claim a majority.

STATE LEGISLATURES 2020. Whereever possible (i.e. where state legislatures in 2010 did not already gerrymander themselves into permanence).
 
2012-11-16 09:41:57 AM  

thurstonxhowell: pivazena: I believe only 1/3 of the house was up for reelection this year.

Roughly 1/3 of the Senate was up for reelection because Senators server 6 year terms. Representatives only serve 2 year terms, so the whole House is up for reelection every 2 years.


Oops! Civics fail
 
2012-11-16 09:44:06 AM  

maxheck: docmattic:

maxheck: erik-k:

you'll find yourself playing a game of intellectual Calvinball.

Just wanted to point out, that is *entirely* the wrong way to play Calvinball.

No, someone deciding what is a wrong way to play Calvinball is the wrong way to play Calvinball.

But you just...

and then...

(recusion loop... Cronenberg-style head asplosion)


Possibly... but I have official Waterson canon on my side.

/"The only permanent rule in Calvinball is that you can't play it the same way twice."
 
2012-11-16 09:48:01 AM  

mksmith: maxheck: I live in one of the saner states, though in a very red district. I offered my driver's license unrequested and told the nice little-old-lady my name, she checked my name on a list and handed my ID back and pointed me to another official who pointed me onward to the polling booth. 5 minutes later I had done my part for democracy. (or not.)

Here in Louisiana, you have to produce an official ID of one kind or another. Often, several precincts vote at a single school or wherever. So they check your ID against the printed list of registered voters for your precinct and you sign your name in the space next to it, and then you line up in front of the antique voting machine. (You're not allowed to feed the squirrels spinning the cage attached to the machine.)

If you're in the wrong precinct line -- or the wrong freaking gymnasium -- they can look at the address on your ID and tell you where to go. And they're remarkably polite about it.

Not many things having to do with government work very well in Louisiana, but this actually seems to be one of them.


I remarked on this after my wife and I voted. We heard reports of people in other States waiting for hours. This was the longest I have ever waited to vote, about 30 minutes, and that was because we had a disable person and a elderly and disabled person few people in front of us. If flipping Louisiana can get it right, how the hell can the others not? (unless it is by design of course).

As for antique machine, they are actually fairly modern, more so than paper ballots. AVC Advantage PDF
 
2012-11-16 10:17:55 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Either Politico is unclear on the meaning of "100 percent of precincts reporting", or I am. I know this is impolitic of me, but I'm kind of hoping it's Politico, I don't really wanna have to relearn math based on the assumption that 1 =/= 1.


There's a difference between reporting and vote counting. Besides, it takes time to 'find' more GOP votes.
 
2012-11-16 10:19:07 AM  

jaytkay: Jim_Callahan: Either Politico is unclear on the meaning of "100 percent of precincts reporting"

Maybe they are close enough that a recount is mandatory?


100% precincts reporting means that the election day vote has been collected from the polling locations. It says nothing about provisional or absentee ballots.
 
2012-11-16 10:21:51 AM  

DjangoStonereaver: Generation_D: To sum up: There are all kinds of ways to cheat in local elections, and people whose job it is to know how and make it happen. This is not new, in American cities especially it has been going on for centuries now. Good ol Democratic fun. Its been that way since the 1850s at the very least.

So latter-day complaints of Republican cheating completely misses the mark, we had over 100 years worth of cheating in favor of Democrats in large east coast (and San Franciscan) urban areas. Does it justify it, no it does not. But it points out the people crying for reform have zero sense of history or even of how the system has always "worked."

Precisely; the reason the GOP has gotten so good at gerrymandering and other electoral
shenanigans is that they learned their craft from the Democrats.


Nope. Pretending that Republicans used to be lily white innocents is crap. In the 1960 election while city Democrats were fixing the election for Kennedy, suburban and downstate Republicans were doing the exact same thing trying to fix the election for Nixon. The story of Illinois politics is that Democrats are corrupt and Republicans are corrupt and incompetent.
 
2012-11-16 10:30:20 AM  

TwistedFark: Her name is Denise Milani, and I will help her smuggle watermelons any time.


I'm getting old. My first thought was "I bet she biatches about her back hurting ALL THE TIME".
 
2012-11-16 10:40:06 AM  

iq_in_binary: Baz744: bugontherug: Tommy Moo: I eagerly await the statistics on nationwide popular vote for House representatives

They're already in. The Democrats won the national popular vote for House of Representatives.

Link

The GOP House of Representatives has neither political legitimacy, nor moral authority.

Wow. The Democrats won the national popular vote for House by a million votes, but still have only an inconsequential minority in it?

Between this kind of crap and the electoral college, our democracy is a travesty.

Well, yeah, considering the fact that the founders that crafted this "Democracy" hated the notion and wanted to try a different system. We're not a Democracy, we are a Representative Republic.


If the minority party holds the House of Representatives, it isn't representing the body politic.

However much it angers you, the simple fact is, we are a democratic republic.
 
2012-11-16 11:04:26 AM  

Johnny Swank: ^ Farking this. Also a NC poll worker, and these republican "you gotta check my ID, you just gotta!" assholes are the worst. They're ignorant as hell, and just a pain in the ass in general. I'm convinced they need their ID out all the time just to remember where they actually live.


Whereas in my precinct, in a state that does have voter ID laws (with a very generous definition of ID), I had people coming in all day surprised when they were asked for ID because they'd heard about this voter ID business on the radio and thought Democrats had made it so no one needed any anywhere. I'm like, have you never ever voted before? It's been like this at least eight years here.
 
2012-11-16 11:15:49 AM  

pivazena: Tommy Moo: I eagerly await the statistics on nationwide popular vote for House representatives. It's strange that Obama won the popular vote but the GOP kept the house. Is it likely that millions of Americans voted for Obama and a Republican for Congress?

If it turns out that the GOP kept a staggering control of the house in spite of getting fewer total nationwide votes, that will demonstrate a catastrophic moral failure of gerrymandering and a tyrranical offense against democracy. We already have the Senate to trample on democracy. The House is supposed to be pure and populist. I'm sick of seeing districts that pack urban blacks, Latinos, and college students into a 90% Democrat district so Republicans can win the surrounding six districts 55:45.

I believe only 1/3 of the house was up for reelection this year. I don't know the breakdown, but if most of those seats were in dem or rep strongholds, you'd expect them to be reelected. And incumbents usually win regardless, as people love THEIR representative but hate congress


All the house is up for election every two years. You're thinking of the senate.
 
2012-11-16 11:16:21 AM  

Generation_D: DjangoStonereaver: Tommy Moo: jaytkay: Tommy Moo: I eagerly await the statistics on nationwide popular vote for House representatives. It's strange that Obama won the popular vote but the GOP kept the house. Is it likely that millions of Americans voted for Obama and a Republican for Congress?

A few points off the top of my head:

Obama won in Paul Ryan's district, so yes, it definitely happens.

Incumbents usually win.

Districts are re-drawn (yes, gerrymandered) every 10 years , so maybe they lag changing opinion

Alaska, Delaware, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, and Vermont have only one Representative each, so their voters count disproportionally

The process should be done by computer algorithm. Districts are drawn by state legislatures, which gives state governments an unfair ability to influence the makeup of the federal government. A voter should be able to vote for one party in state elections and the other party in federal elections without it being a conflict of interests.

Bbbbut.. State's Rights!

Seriously: as liberal as I am, I don't see a problem with each state's legislature deciding how to draw
districts in their own state.

Is the system rigged? You betcha, and this is truly a case of "Both sides are bad!", since the Dems
were and are doing such things in their strongholds for years*. But the GOP has been so nakedly brazen about it that you just have to laugh in between crying.

*I shall refrain from pointing out that a lot of the Democrats who gerrymandered in the
southern states to cut out black voters in years past would, in our current climate, probably have
moved to the GOP side because of Nixon's Southern Strategy; the NY Dems sure as hell mess with
their districts in NYC.

My grandfather worked in city politics in Chicago in the 1950s and 1960s. Thats big D Democratic for you kids just joining the discussion.

Some of the jobs he used to perform, or had people that reported to him perform:

1) Punching multiple ballots. T ...


So let me get this straight:

The fact that your family cheated on the ballot before I was born and the fact that the last time people cheated in such an obvious manner was before I was allowed to vote means that when I learn about this now, I'm not allowed to be angry about it? Is that what you're telling me?
 
2012-11-16 11:21:30 AM  

Johnny Swank: ^ Farking this. Also a NC poll worker, and these republican "you gotta check my ID, you just gotta!" assholes are the worst. They're ignorant as hell, and just a pain in the ass in general. I'm convinced they need their ID out all the time just to remember where they actually live.


I got my ID stolen on election day and haven't had a chance to get a new one yet (have to go in person, don't have a car, can't bike or bus in time around work hours so I gotta take a day off next week) so I'm getting a kick out of awesome poll worker posts.

/did poll greeting so voted absentee anyway
//no ID req and I had it forwarded
///sigh
 
2012-11-16 11:44:29 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Here's a rundown of the races that remain uncalled:
Arizona's 2nd District. Democratic Rep. Ron Barber leads Republican Martha McSally 50.1 percent to 49.9 percent, or 698 votes, with 100 percent of precincts reporting.

California's 7th District. Democrat Ami Bera leads Republican Rep. Dan Lungren 50.4 percent to 49.6 percent with 100 percent of precincts reporting.

California's 52nd District. Democrat Scott Peters leads Republican Rep. Brian Bilbray 50.3 percent to 49.7 percent with 100 percent of precincts reporting.

Florida's 18th District. Democrat Patrick Murphy leads Republican Rep. Allen West 50.3 percent to 49.7 percent with 100 percent of precincts reporting.

North Carolina's 7th District. Democratic Rep. Mike McIntyre leads Republican David Rouzer 50.1 percent to 49.9 percent with 100 percent of precincts reporting.

... uncalled?

Either Politico is unclear on the meaning of "100 percent of precincts reporting", or I am. I know this is impolitic of me, but I'm kind of hoping it's Politico, I don't really wanna have to relearn math based on the assumption that 1 =/= 1.


I was wondering if I'd missed something here. I mean, it's not like AP has some sort of legal mandate on 'calling' races...if 100% of the precincts report in, the race is over. You might not like who won, but there is in fact a winner.
 
2012-11-16 11:54:45 AM  

Jim_Callahan: t 1 =/= 1.


If the counts are close enough many jurisdictions have automatic recount rules. I can't say for certain that each of these races fall into that category but *shrug* I guess it's a possibility. I think it's been mentioned but there are also probably provisional/absentee ballots that still need to be counted.
 
2012-11-16 11:57:44 AM  
Weird...I lost most of your quote some where...oh well
 
2012-11-16 12:09:48 PM  
they way the GOP draws congressional lines for Ohio should be a crime. If Republicans had any morals they'd be ashamed. But they don't. They are pudgy, pasty ass hats.
 
2012-11-16 12:22:16 PM  

snowshovel: "A week and a half after the elections, 5 seats in the House of Representatives too close to call. Of course, Democrats are leading in all of them. How did you know?"

Because of whatever Acorn morphed into/ Maybe if the libs weren't committing voter fraud all over the place, we wouldn't have to worry about "too close to call". If you don't like your gerrymandered district, move out of it. No one is forcing you to live in your ramshackled shack with people like you.


ACORN! DRINK!
 
2012-11-16 01:09:45 PM  

Baz744: iq_in_binary: Baz744: bugontherug: Tommy Moo: I eagerly await the statistics on nationwide popular vote for House representatives

They're already in. The Democrats won the national popular vote for House of Representatives.

Link

The GOP House of Representatives has neither political legitimacy, nor moral authority.

Wow. The Democrats won the national popular vote for House by a million votes, but still have only an inconsequential minority in it?

Between this kind of crap and the electoral college, our democracy is a travesty.

Well, yeah, considering the fact that the founders that crafted this "Democracy" hated the notion and wanted to try a different system. We're not a Democracy, we are a Representative Republic.

If the minority party holds the House of Representatives, it isn't representing the body politic.

However much it angers you, the simple fact is, we are a democratic republic.


Wrong on that count too. In a democracy the minority party wouldn't have any power, none, zero, zilch, nada. Take a look at states with Republican Super Majorities. That's what a democracy looks like at normalcy.

We are not a democracy, the founding fathers hated the notion of mob rule and established the senate and the congress specifically to offset the disadvantages present in a democracy. Most true democracies that our founding fathers had knowledge of were essentially limited dictatorships with varying levels of success. See: Rome. They hated the idea of mob rule and the coliseum/church/bath houses being used as a tool to both gain and secure power by feeding the wants of the mob and offering incentives for willful ignorance. We are, by definition a Representative Republic. Plain and simple. There is no wiggle room, no technicality you can use, nothing that changes that fact. Words mean things. We are not a democracy.
 
2012-11-16 01:22:00 PM  

iq_in_binary: Wrong on that count too. In a democracy the minority party wouldn't have any power, none, zero, zilch, nada. Take a look at states with Republican Super Majorities. That's what a democracy looks like at normalcy.

We are not a democracy, the founding fathers hated the notion of mob rule and established the senate and the congress specifically to offset the disadvantages present in a democracy. Most true democracies that our founding fathers had knowledge of were essentially limited dictatorships with varying levels of success. See: Rome. They hated the idea of mob rule and the coliseum/church/bath houses being used as a tool to both gain and secure power by feeding the wants of the mob and offering incentives for willful ignorance. We are, by definition a Representative Republic. Plain and simple. There is no wiggle room, no technicality you can use, nothing that changes that fact. Words mean things. We are not a democracy.


He's right because he did not say we are a democracy. We are a democratic republic. A non-democratic republic would be one like the Roman Senate where representatives are not elected by the people.
 
2012-11-16 01:24:05 PM  

iq_in_binary: Wrong on that count too. In a democracy the minority party wouldn't have any power, none, zero, zilch, nada. Take a look at states with Republican Super Majorities. That's what a democracy looks like at normalcy.


You are almost completely uninformed. That characteristic does not inhere to the concept of democracy.

Link

America is now and has always been a democratic republic.

Link

What's more: the House of Representatives was always intended to be the people's house. Above the Senate, the presidency, and the courts, the House of Representatives should reflect the will of the people. When one party so gerrymanders the districts that it becomes easy for them to lose the popular vote while retaining a substantial majority in it, it undermines the plain intent of the framers.
 
2012-11-16 01:26:53 PM  

odinsposse: iq_in_binary: Wrong on that count too. In a democracy the minority party wouldn't have any power, none, zero, zilch, nada. Take a look at states with Republican Super Majorities. That's what a democracy looks like at normalcy.

We are not a democracy, the founding fathers hated the notion of mob rule and established the senate and the congress specifically to offset the disadvantages present in a democracy. Most true democracies that our founding fathers had knowledge of were essentially limited dictatorships with varying levels of success. See: Rome. They hated the idea of mob rule and the coliseum/church/bath houses being used as a tool to both gain and secure power by feeding the wants of the mob and offering incentives for willful ignorance. We are, by definition a Representative Republic. Plain and simple. There is no wiggle room, no technicality you can use, nothing that changes that fact. Words mean things. We are not a democracy.

He's right because he did not say we are a democracy. We are a democratic republic. A non-democratic republic would be one like the Roman Senate where representatives are not elected by the people.


It doesn't matter, because we are a democracy too. We are a republic, a democracy, and a democratic republic all at the same time.
 
2012-11-16 02:12:41 PM  

Baz744: odinsposse: iq_in_binary: Wrong on that count too. In a democracy the minority party wouldn't have any power, none, zero, zilch, nada. Take a look at states with Republican Super Majorities. That's what a democracy looks like at normalcy.

We are not a democracy, the founding fathers hated the notion of mob rule and established the senate and the congress specifically to offset the disadvantages present in a democracy. Most true democracies that our founding fathers had knowledge of were essentially limited dictatorships with varying levels of success. See: Rome. They hated the idea of mob rule and the coliseum/church/bath houses being used as a tool to both gain and secure power by feeding the wants of the mob and offering incentives for willful ignorance. We are, by definition a Representative Republic. Plain and simple. There is no wiggle room, no technicality you can use, nothing that changes that fact. Words mean things. We are not a democracy.

He's right because he did not say we are a democracy. We are a democratic republic. A non-democratic republic would be one like the Roman Senate where representatives are not elected by the people.

It doesn't matter, because we are a democracy too. We are a republic, a democracy, and a democratic republic all at the same time.


Did you, or did you not vote directly on the Budget? Did you or did you not directly vote on all the various policy matters that our Legislative branch handles, say for instance tax codes or appropriations bills? Did those show up on your ballot?

Oh, they didn't? We are not a democracy. Period. Full Stop. End Of Story.

English, do you speak it?
 
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