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(Crooks & Liars)   Wal-mart workers are planning the company's first ever walk-out. On Black Friday   (occupyamerica.crooksandliars.com) divider line 709
    More: Followup, unfair labor practice, Center for Independent Media  
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20624 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Nov 2012 at 8:59 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-16 04:09:06 AM
I'm not entirely sure of it being the first one:

Wal-Mart to close unionized Quebec store

Aside: The only people to utterly defeat Wal-Mart were the Germans:

World's Biggest Retailer Wal-Mart Closes Up Shop in Germany
 
2012-11-16 04:12:49 AM

Lsherm: Man, you need to update your Amazon wishlist.


yeah I hadn't touched it in a while

/and thanks :D
 
2012-11-16 04:14:21 AM

ox45tallboy: Germany and Japan also have socialized medicine, so the cost of employee health care (current and future) is not included in the price of their cars.


This is simply not true for Germany. When I lived there I paid $700/month for that so-called socialized medicine. The rate depends on what you earn. Fortunately for me, my company paid half of it, but they didn't have to. It's only socialized if you are unemployed and it's subsidized when you are a student.
 
2012-11-16 04:25:58 AM

CujoQuarrel: I see stuff like that all the time here on how bad the WallyWorlds look and how non helpful the staff is and I've never see that. The ones near me are spotlessly clean and I've never had any problems getting assistance.

Is it a northern thing maybe? I'm in the deep south.


I hate WalMart, but they're not particularly dirty, and I've never had problems with customer service either.

When it comes to customer service, the place to avoid like the plague? Fry's Electronics. That place TRULY sucks. It's got the BEST selection of computer hardware, and actually has bare circuit boards, and all of the components to build your own circuits, but the customer service is abysmal. I have been looking for things before, and had my wife on the other end of a huge aisle. I've seen an employee waling by and(purposely for this experiment) called out to my wife and said 'Can you find it? I can't see it down there, I wonder if it's in another aisle?'. This doesn't even slow the employee at all. I have probably tried this at least 10 separate times and NEVER had someone stop on their own and offer to help me. They're not a good place for employees either. Their way to shave off wages is that they pay their cashiers commission. There is no way to guarantee which cashier gets which customer, there are usually about 40 cash registers and the waiting line is way back at the beginning, with an employee that manages the line, telling you which register just opened up. Extremely efficient, but the cashiers get screwed over with that pay structure.
 
2012-11-16 05:09:02 AM

CujoQuarrel: BTW people keep misunderstanding 'right to work' laws. If you are in a right to work state all it means is that 'closed shops' are illegal. A closed shop is where the company agrees that all employees must join the union. It does not mean that unions are outlawed.


The problem with RTW is that it only counts employee unions, not employer-organized unions such as temporary, contract, contingent, agency and part-time labor. I'd wonder what would happen if Right to Work applied to the employer as well - where one would not be forced to join a staffing agency, to accept temporary work, and/or to be 1099'd in order to begin/continue work.
 
2012-11-16 05:31:03 AM

FLMountainMan: But not Target or Apple, right? Because we like them.


Uh yeah, thanks for the white knighting but I work for Apple and we're treated very well, thanks. We work our butts off in some of the busiest retail locations you can imagine, but we are well-compensated and have full benefits. In fact, I'll be picking up a $4000 hearing aid in a few weeks, free of charge. Thanks to Apple.

So no, you can't compare Apple to Walmart in this regard. I have no idea about Target.
 
2012-11-16 06:00:33 AM
My sister is working Thanksgiving morning 8-12, so she can't watch the parade with my nephew, who is now old enough to appreciate the holidays. This is the way the world works now, it sucks, but I don't see it changing.
 
2012-11-16 06:07:18 AM

Great Janitor: ACallForPeace: Great Janitor: For those who don't like it there, find a different job or shut up.

Or organize and use your freedom of speech and association.
For some reason it's okay for management to be organized and put pressure on workers, but the reverse should be unthinkable and only be done by lazy deadbeats right?

I view it this way: I own a company. I decide how much a job is worth. A person applies for that job. I tell them what that job pays and what the duties involved are. They then make the choice as to whether or not they accept the job if it's offered. Since the worker does not own the company, they can ask for more money and I, the owner, can refuse. If the workers start to organize, I can exercise my right to fire the organizers.

These workers wanting better working conditions are going to have an easier task finding jobs that meet those better working conditions than they are trying to get Walmart to change.


This is why I questioned whether it would be worth it. Organizing WalMart would be a huge mountain to climb, and the probable result would be the end of WalMart. I don't think their business model allows for paying or treating their employees decently. It's just like their practice of selling "downgraded" versions of known brands that they have dragooned their suppliers into making specially for them.
It's a "race-to-the-bottom" business, and designed to exploit the fools Ben Franklin was rferring to when he said - "There is nothing that some man may not make a little worse, and sell a little cheaper. Those who consider price only are this man's rightful prey".
So, if you must - shop at WalMart. You will get the crappy merchandise and the crappy society you deserve.
 
2012-11-16 06:36:26 AM
Black friday: base consumer whorism

walking out on a job in this economy: I'm a F'ing snowflake

sure wally world makes money and can afford (through fark math) to give everyone raises.
but why would they?
is the level of expertise that high?
everyone is paid exactly what they deserve..everywhere in the U.S.
don't like it?
better yourself, move, get a different job
 
2012-11-16 06:50:01 AM
I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night, alive as you or me. Said I, "But, Joe, you're ten years dead." "I never died," said he,
"I never died," said he. Good on the WalMart workers. I wish you well.
 
2012-11-16 06:51:42 AM

divx88: ox45tallboy: divx88: Don't like it, don't work there.

Learn a trade that's in demand.

Stocking groceries is in demand. That's why people are doing it.

If they were to learn a new trade, then who would stock the groceries? And would the new grocery stockers deserve to be treated this way?

It's an entry level job that anyone can do. A stepping stone, not a life long career. If all you ever do is aspire to bag groceries then you shouldn't expect to get paid anymore than an unskilled bagger. If that makes you happy then great. If the company you're doing unskilled labor doesn't want to pay you more than minimum wage and no benefits and that doesn't work for you and you are happy with the bare minimum, then you're working for the wrong company ... though guess what, there's more demand to be the lowest common denominator and have a living wage with benefits. If they learn a trade to move on from grocery bagging, I somehow doubt we'd all be in a great bagger shortage.


It's not a stepping stone when the employer plays merry havoc with your scheduled hours due to computerized forecasts of staffing requirements - and makes it impossible for you to further your education or learn a trade. Wal-Mart's not the only employer that does this, but they are the largest.
 
2012-11-16 07:00:30 AM
I'm horrified that Black Friday exists at all.
 
2012-11-16 07:21:14 AM

Silly Jesus: It's a voluntary exchange. They went to Wal-mart and asked for the ability to exchange their labor for the amount of money that Wal-mart was offering. They weren't recruited or forced to work there. If they don't like the terms of their voluntary contract, they are free to leave and Wal-mart should be free to replace them with someone else.


This is an incredibly difficult concept. Most farkers don't understand it.
 
2012-11-16 07:35:50 AM
This is what taking the country will look like. Not some end-of-a-gun teabag fantasy.
 
2012-11-16 07:39:27 AM
Its so nice when I get to make severe use of the red 4 button. Have you ever noticed that libertarians and rapeublicans have similar views on corporations?

/youre all red to me
 
2012-11-16 08:01:11 AM
Back in the 1980's, the company I worked for hired HR consultants to provide some courses on preventing unionization by actually avoiding the pitfalls that lead to it, by actually treating people like human beings. Things like ensuring pay equity, LISTENING to your team's concerns, not only just avoiding unfairness but anything that would APPEAR to be unfair.

Surprisingly, it wasn't all about pay.
Recognition for work well done was #1. A say in such matters as health and safety was important too.
Avoiding unnecessary stress (but a little was ok) on the job was another big thing.
They even had the company mission changed from saying shareholder value was #1 on the list to #3

This was back before those short-sighted neocons (The Regans, Bushes, Mulroonies and Thatchers) got their greedy little hooks in and started strangling the goose that laid their golden eggs.
 
2012-11-16 08:15:37 AM
The workers are demanding the following from Walmart:

Improve Workers' Lives

Pay a minimum of $25,000/year and guarantee quality, affordable health coverage for all Walmart associates and workers in the company's US distribution chain. So I can work 10 hours a week and make $25K? Cool.

Rebuild Communities

Sign on to a national community benefits agreement that ensures as Walmart expands into new markets, it strengthens communities, protects the environment and is responsible for the well-being of its employees in its retail stores and US supply and distribution chain. What if Walmart doesnt want to expand?

Put Its Promises in Writing

Agree to a global labor agreement guaranteeing the fundamental human right of freedom of association for all of its associates and instruct their suppliers to do the same, and recognize and negotiate with OUR Walmart. Since when is it a requirement that Walmart dictates other companies policies?

Elevate Global Living Standards

Establish a legally binding global responsible contractor policy requiring contractors and subcontractors to provide living wages, worker safety protections, and respect basic human and labor rights, including freedom of association and freedom from racial and gender discrimination. Again, why is this Walmarts responsibility?
 
2012-11-16 08:16:59 AM

insertsnarkyusername: The can ask for a union and the company legally has to say yes.


Sort-of (depending on the state).

Option A (right to work state):
Workers: "We demand a union!"
Feds: "Well, vote on it"
[Workers get a union]
Union: "Here's our list of demands."
Wal-Mart: "No."
Union: "Meet our demands, or we strike!"
Wal-Mart: "No."
[Union strikes]
[Wal-Mart fires all union workers for nonperformance]

Option B (unionization of small portion of workforce in one or more stores):
Workers: "We demand a union!"
Feds: "Well, vote on it"
[Workers get a union]
[Wal-mart shuts down positions and/or subcontracts them]

Option C (unionization of significant portions of single store):
Workers: "We demand a union!"
Feds: "Well, vote on it"
[Workers get a union]
[Wal-mart shuts down store for "renovation", transfers a few workers to other stores, conveniently doesn't have positions for the rest of the employees.] 

They take their anti-union stance seriously. Wal-mart has already done Option B. Option C was done by Target. It's not a coincidence the two largest retail stores are both extremely anti-union.
 
2012-11-16 08:20:00 AM
Looking at walmart's blackfriday ad there is nothing great going on sale anyway. The only people who will be there lining up are the morans who don't watch prices during the year and won't care about the employees anyways.
 
2012-11-16 08:20:08 AM
Because it worked out so well for the Hostess employees? 
cdn.motinetwork.net
 
2012-11-16 08:21:50 AM

Hunter_Worthington: //any defeat for organized Labor is a victory for the American Economy.


Often, but not always.

I'm almost as anti-union as they come, and would fold any of my companies before I ever let a union in, but some companies deserve unionization for the kind of crap they pull on their employees. Violation of labor laws, genuinely unsafe work labor conditions, pushing employees past their physical limits, etc.  There comes a point where a company simply has it coming.
 
2012-11-16 08:23:30 AM
Costco > Walmart
 
2012-11-16 08:24:02 AM

Kathrin: Hunter_Worthington: //any defeat for organized Labor is a victory for the American Economy.

Often, but not always.

I'm almost as anti-union as they come, and would fold any of my companies before I ever let a union in, but some companies deserve unionization for the kind of crap they pull on their employees. Violation of labor laws, genuinely unsafe work labor conditions, pushing employees past their physical limits, etc.  There comes a point where a company simply has it coming.


so.... walmart?
 
2012-11-16 08:26:48 AM
Personaly I think this would be awesome. Thousands of crazed shoppers rampaging through walmart shoving anything they can find into their carts, with only a couple of managers to handle the madness in the entire store. 1...maybe 2 checkout lines open, people getting stabbed, run over and beaten before everyone says 'fark it' and just starts a loot-fest. Yeah, I'd show up to watch that.

As long as they don't pull this shiat at best buy. I would like a new TV. Or hell, they can pull this at Best Buy as well, I'd probably get a free TV that way.
 
2012-11-16 08:28:00 AM

Carth: so.... walmart?


I don't know. I've gotten mixed answers, and am living with someone who rather benefitted from working for wal-mart. They gave her a job when nobody else would, and they had better benefits than she could have gotten elsewhere (poor town). She worked the loading docks and earned enough to move somewhere better.

Perhaps the abuses at some stores justify it, but I don't know enough of the specifics to really judge.
 
2012-11-16 08:28:51 AM

Kathrin: Hunter_Worthington: //any defeat for organized Labor is a victory for the American Economy.

Often, but not always.

I'm almost as anti-union as they come, and would fold any of my companies before I ever let a union in, but some companies deserve unionization for the kind of crap they pull on their employees. Violation of labor laws, genuinely unsafe work labor conditions, pushing employees past their physical limits, etc.  There comes a point where a company simply has it coming.


I share the same thoughts but you mentioned violation of labor laws; like what & why is a union needed to uphold them? Unsafe work labor conditions: isnt this what OSHA is for? Pushing employees past physical limits? What do you mean?

Again, Im anti-union as well just dont understand your points is all :)
 
2012-11-16 08:38:49 AM

Mikey1969: BravadoGT: You know what kind of employee I want at my business? The kind that tries to hurt me on arguably the busiest day of the year. GTFO--and God help you if you put me down on your next application and they call me.

You don't know how THAT works, do you? Pretty much all that they get to ask you is if the person is considered eligible for rehire. You can't say more, or you're violating the very types of labor laws that WalMart has been ignoring requests to stop violating for YEARS. It's not like this is the first, or even the millionth, time this has come up.


In fact--I'm pretty sure I'm the only one in this particular discussion that knows how it DOES work. First, in many states it is perfectly legal to reveal the reason for termination And, in the ones where it isn't--who do you think is actually worried about violating THAT law? How is your disgruntled ex-employee going to prove it? It's often little more than a single, friendly conversation on the phone--who exactly is going to reveal the contents of that conversation? Me? The grateful colleague who I just saved from unwittingly hiring on a cancerous employee? Good luck, buddy.

Not a whole lot of experience for you in the real workplace, I'm guessing...
 
2012-11-16 08:39:49 AM

hocho064: Put Its Promises in Writing
Agree to a global labor agreement guaranteeing the fundamental human right of freedom of association for all of its associates and instruct their suppliers to do the same, and recognize and negotiate with OUR Walmart. Since when is it a requirement that Walmart dictates other companies policies?


They do it all the time when they are cutting deals.

Elevate Global Living Standards
Establish a legally binding global responsible contractor policy requiring contractors and subcontractors to provide living wages, worker safety protections, and respect basic human and labor rights, including freedom of association and freedom from racial and gender discrimination. Again, why is this Walmarts responsibility?


Because they're profiting from it.
 
2012-11-16 08:41:13 AM

Silly Jesus: If they don't like the terms of their voluntary contract, they are free to leave and Wal-mart should be free to replace them with someone else.


And, that's exactly what they're doing.

They're walking out and telling Wal-Mart to have fun finding people to staff their stores in their absence.
 
2012-11-16 08:48:07 AM

hocho064: I share the same thoughts but you mentioned violation of labor laws; like what & why is a union needed to uphold them? Unsafe work labor conditions: isnt this what OSHA is for? Pushing employees past physical limits? What do you mean?

Again, Im anti-union as well just dont understand your points is all :)


A couple of examples:

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/265540/ea-we-ruined-need-for-spe e d-with-studio-death-march/

EA Games is fond of using "Death Marches" in order to get out a game. They take hopeful college graduates, chew them up and spit them out. Most of the employees have no idea what they are getting themselves into, and many of them had good careers before EA bought up their company.

"In the '04 to '07 period, we had a single studio, Black Box, up in Vancouver, building our [NFS games]. And we literally had them on a death march building for five years in a row. [They were] annual iterations, they had to put it out; no rest for the weary.

"It'd happened before - games publishers do this from time to time. We should have put them on two-year alternating cycles but we didn't. And the title declined dramatically. We started to lose people. they didn't want to work 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year.


Another example: Hershey's.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/18/us/18immig.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

The students, from countries including China, Nigeria, Romania and Ukraine, came to the United States through a long-established State Department summer visa program that allows them to work for two months and then travel. They said they were expecting to practice their English, make some money and learn what life is like in the United States.

In a way, they did. About 400 foreign students were put to work lifting heavy boxes and packing Reese's candies, Kit-Kats and Almond Joys on a fast-moving production line, many of them on a night shift. After paycheck deductions for fees associated with the program and for their rent, students said at a rally in front of the huge packing plant that many of them were not earning nearly enough to recover what they had spent in their home countries to obtain their visas.


As for violation of labor laws, sometimes an individual is unable to make institutional change. When companies cover-up violations, and fire those who would complain, change can be impossible for a single employee.

Employees can also end up between a rock and a hard place. When one has spent the past 15 years with the same company, and is working towards retirement, simply "getting another job" can mean another decade before retirement. Companies can take advantage of this to demand incredible concessions and amounts of work from employees. This is especially the case for salaried employees who are exempt from overtime.


As I said, I rather dislike organized labor in general, but I recognize a few, limited scenarios in which they are the only way to correct rather egregious behavior on the part of employers. I just wish that a) more states were right-to-work, so that individuals couldn't be forced to join, and b) unions had to be recertified every few years, so they could go away once things got better.
 
2012-11-16 08:49:51 AM

ox45tallboy: Okay people, since there are so many who do not understand what it is like for an average Wal-Mart employee:

Meet my sister. She's 31, married, with 3 kids. Her and her husband receive his disability pay from his service in Iraqi Freedom, but it's not enough to pay the bills. She took a "part time" job at nights at Wal-Mart, who told her that she would need to work night shift "until they got someone else", and they'd "giver her more hours", as in 40 instead of 32, until they "got night shift where they wanted it".

In the past ten months, she worked ONE week at less than 40 hours. But she is not allowed to get insurance, because she is a "part-time" employee. She has to be there for one year.

Day shift had an opening. However, her night shift manager said she was a great worker and he needed her on nights, so the day shift position went to a new hire.

At times, she is asked to stay over by her manager and do extra work. This work is on the clock, but there's a catch:

She is scheduled at 10:00 on Friday night. The end-of-week pay period is midnight Friday night. If she has worked over through the week, she must report in, but is not allowed to clock in because she could wind up with OVERTIME. Instead, she has to show that she came in to work on time, then she is free to stand in the parking lot with all the low-lifes who hang out at the Wal-Mart parking lot at 10:00 on Friday night.

But it gets better!

She was denied a raise at her 6-month eval for.... ATTENDANCE!

But she never misses work!

Guess what? All those times she clocked in late on Friday nights to avoid overtime - SHE WAS TARDY!

She just had a meeting with the GM of the store to address the insurance issue. She was told point blank she would not be receiving insurance becasue she was a "part time" employee. So, she changed her availability to ensure she would only be scheduled for 4 nights a week. Two days later, the schedule was changed back to 5 nights a week.

On Black Friday, she is supposed t ...


Um, why does she stay there? There are really no other minimum wage jobs with no benefits available?
 
2012-11-16 08:50:34 AM

HotWingConspiracy: hocho064: Put Its Promises in Writing
Agree to a global labor agreement guaranteeing the fundamental human right of freedom of association for all of its associates and instruct their suppliers to do the same, and recognize and negotiate with OUR Walmart. Since when is it a requirement that Walmart dictates other companies policies?

They do it all the time when they are cutting deals.

Elevate Global Living Standards
Establish a legally binding global responsible contractor policy requiring contractors and subcontractors to provide living wages, worker safety protections, and respect basic human and labor rights, including freedom of association and freedom from racial and gender discrimination. Again, why is this Walmarts responsibility?

Because they're profiting from it.


And paying taxes on that profit that pay for your food stamps. Dont like it? Dont work there
 
2012-11-16 08:50:51 AM

WhyteRaven74: Silly Jesus: I hope they are all fired.

And then they could sue WalMart for pretty well anything they want. Oh and WalMart would also face federal lawsuits.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

/I'm sorry, but if Wal-Mart hasn't been taken behind the woodshed by now, they never will.
 
2012-11-16 08:52:11 AM

sethen320: Nutsac_Jim: WhyteRaven74: steamingpile: Sue for what? Forcing them to show up for the job they said they would show up for? Some of you are farking insane.

it's illegal to fire employees for organizing or trying to organize. It's a federal law, and in some states there are additional laws. Laws go back to when Carnegie Steel called in the Pinkertons and had them get all shooty with some striking workers.

You don't fire them for organizing. You fire them for not showing up to work.

*WINK* *NUDGE*

Yes, I get that you've found a legal loophole but that still doesn't make it morally right. You do know what morals are, right? Should I post a definition for you?


Firing someone for not coming to work is a loophole? HAHAHAHAHA
 
2012-11-16 08:53:13 AM

Joe Blowme: Because it worked out so well for the Hostess employees? 
[cdn.motinetwork.net image 640x694]


The typical American consumer seems to need cheap Chinese plastic crap just a little more than unhealthy food-like material.
 
2012-11-16 08:55:00 AM

HotWingConspiracy: hocho064: Put Its Promises in Writing
Agree to a global labor agreement guaranteeing the fundamental human right of freedom of association for all of its associates and instruct their suppliers to do the same, and recognize and negotiate with OUR Walmart. Since when is it a requirement that Walmart dictates other companies policies?

They do it all the time when they are cutting deals.


Not sure I agree with you on this.

Elevate Global Living Standards
Establish a legally binding global responsible contractor policy requiring contractors and subcontractors to provide living wages, worker safety protections, and respect basic human and labor rights, including freedom of association and freedom from racial and gender discrimination. Again, why is this Walmarts responsibility?

Because they're profiting from it.


And other similar companies arent profiting; Sears, Kohls, Target, H&M, etc? Why should a company have to "overpay" someone just because they demand it? Heard on the new last night one of the Hostess workers complaining about her making $12/hour. She said "I only make $12 an hour. I could go get another job making more." WELL WHY DONT YOU THEN????
 
2012-11-16 08:56:12 AM

Joe Blowme: HotWingConspiracy: hocho064: Put Its Promises in Writing
Agree to a global labor agreement guaranteeing the fundamental human right of freedom of association for all of its associates and instruct their suppliers to do the same, and recognize and negotiate with OUR Walmart. Since when is it a requirement that Walmart dictates other companies policies?

They do it all the time when they are cutting deals.

Elevate Global Living Standards
Establish a legally binding global responsible contractor policy requiring contractors and subcontractors to provide living wages, worker safety protections, and respect basic human and labor rights, including freedom of association and freedom from racial and gender discrimination. Again, why is this Walmarts responsibility?

Because they're profiting from it.

And paying taxes on that profit that pay for your food stamps. Dont like it? Dont work there


Exactly!!!
 
2012-11-16 08:57:31 AM

Sergeant Grumbles: Fade2black: Is there a reason why Wal-Mart should pay a wage to employees that would count as gainfully employed? You haven't explained the repercussions when wages go up dollars an hour, to the product they sell or the services they give. Wages go up, cost goes up. Nothing of value was gained except you might feel better about yourself when you go home after your shift.

Raising the pay of Wal-Mart's U.S. workers to a minimum of $12 an hour would lift many out of poverty, reduce their reliance on public assistance, and cost the average consumer, at most, $12.49 a year.

Is there some reason working for Wal-Mart need not be gainful employment besides your opinion of what counts as work?


Why not pay them all $50,000 a year. That would only cost everyone $20 a year. Why not pay them all $100,000 a year? That would cost everyone less than $100 a year. How do you choose the appropriate pay?
 
2012-11-16 08:58:05 AM

sethen320: Yes, I get that you've found a legal loophole but that still doesn't make it morally right. You do know what morals are, right? Should I post a definition for you?


It's not a loophole. That's how it's supposed to work.

The theory of a strike is to say "you need us, and if you don't treat us right, we won't work, and your business will fail." The employer is free to try to replace those employees, the striking workers are free to stand outside and picket, telling anyone who will listen why they are striking. If the strikers are right, and they truly are necessary (and their cause is just), people won't cross the picket lines, and the employer won't be able to function without the employees.

In practice, union strikes often try to squeeze blood from a turnip (uaw, etc.), and workers often way overvalue themselves. Skilled workers have a much better chance of success at striking than retail workers. If almost anyone can learn to do your job "well enough" in a week, you really don't have a whole lot of leverage.

That's not a loophole, that's a value proposition.
 
2012-11-16 08:59:05 AM

Silly Jesus: timujin: Silly Jesus: There's an endless supply of dimwits who need some extra walking around money for cigarettes and lottery tickets. I don't think that Wal-mart is at much risk of running out of a "qualified" applicant pool.

That's where you and I disagree, I think the supply is limited. Would you work there? I wouldn't. Have you ever met any dimwits that you wouldn't trust to know which end of a mop to use? I have. Once you eliminate those people, people who can't communicate, people who have other limiting factors such as a criminal record, you do have a finite available workforce. Now, there are obviously more people who would take the job than are currently employed by the company, but I still believe that those people, once they are employed, will reach the same level off discontent that the current employees have. Eventually you run out of people who are willing to take the shiatty job. Add to that the cost of on-boarding and training new employees and it can be less costly to meet the employees demands, or at least come to some sort of middle ground.

It's kind of like the people who pick vegetables going on strike. Sure, there are other people willing to take their jobs, but not many and once those people realize how difficult the work is and how shiatty the conditions are, they too get fed up and go on strike. Eventually the growers run out of available employees and are forced to make concessions.

Yep. That's how it works. If Wal-mart becomes unable to hire enough employees at current wages, the wages will increase. Until then, they have no reason to pay everyone more than the market deems that they are currently worth.


This is why Capitalism is dead. There are now more workers than work that can be done, and it's getting worse every day. The end result is an excess of labour supply, causing wages to plummet. Eventually they will hit 0. What then, genius?
 
2012-11-16 08:59:37 AM
To all internet CEOs'.... if you can do it so much better start your own company and pay your employees as much as you want.
 
2012-11-16 09:03:16 AM

Joe Blowme: And paying taxes on that profit


LOL U FUNNEE
 
2012-11-16 09:03:26 AM

Joe Blowme: To all internet CEOs'.... if you can do it so much better start your own company and pay your employees as much as you want.


I did. I do. What's your point?
 
2012-11-16 09:05:10 AM

Mikey1969: BravadoGT: You know what kind of employee I want at my business? The kind that tries to hurt me on arguably the busiest day of the year. GTFO--and God help you if you put me down on your next application and they call me.

You don't know how THAT works, do you? Pretty much all that they get to ask you is if the person is considered eligible for rehire. You can't say more, or you're violating the very types of labor laws that WalMart has been ignoring requests to stop violating for YEARS. It's not like this is the first, or even the millionth, time this has come up.


Most jobs that I've had have asked me to sign a form that allows my previous employer to say whatever they want. I think that's fairly common.
 
2012-11-16 09:05:34 AM

Silly Jesus: Sergeant Grumbles: Fade2black: Is there a reason why Wal-Mart should pay a wage to employees that would count as gainfully employed? You haven't explained the repercussions when wages go up dollars an hour, to the product they sell or the services they give. Wages go up, cost goes up. Nothing of value was gained except you might feel better about yourself when you go home after your shift.

Raising the pay of Wal-Mart's U.S. workers to a minimum of $12 an hour would lift many out of poverty, reduce their reliance on public assistance, and cost the average consumer, at most, $12.49 a year.

Is there some reason working for Wal-Mart need not be gainful employment besides your opinion of what counts as work?

Why not pay them all $50,000 a year. That would only cost everyone $20 a year. Why not pay them all $100,000 a year? That would cost everyone less than $100 a year. How do you choose the appropriate pay?




Consider this. Walmart makes $15 billion in profit each year. Walmart employees consume $3 billion in government welfare each year.

How about they take a tiny hit off of profit to pay their employees enough to not need welfare, for a start? The employees are each contributing towards the GDP fraction that is being generated, but they are not receiving any of it. It's wage theft, plain and simple.
 
2012-11-16 09:06:54 AM

hocho064: HotWingConspiracy: hocho064: Put Its Promises in Writing
Agree to a global labor agreement guaranteeing the fundamental human right of freedom of association for all of its associates and instruct their suppliers to do the same, and recognize and negotiate with OUR Walmart. Since when is it a requirement that Walmart dictates other companies policies?

They do it all the time when they are cutting deals.

Not sure I agree with you on this.


You don't think Walmart demands certain operational conditions from their suppliers? LOL

Elevate Global Living Standards
Establish a legally binding global responsible contractor policy requiring contractors and subcontractors to provide living wages, worker safety protections, and respect basic human and labor rights, including freedom of association and freedom from racial and gender discrimination. Again, why is this Walmarts responsibility?

Because they're profiting from it.

And other similar companies arent profiting; Sears, Kohls, Target, H&M, etc? Why should a company have to "overpay" someone just because they demand it?


What?

I get that you're a huge fan of overseas slave labor, but a lot of people aren't. As long as we're competing with Asian orphans on wages, nothing will get better here.
 
2012-11-16 09:08:29 AM

BravadoGT: Mikey1969: BravadoGT: You know what kind of employee I want at my business? The kind that tries to hurt me on arguably the busiest day of the year. GTFO--and God help you if you put me down on your next application and they call me.

You don't know how THAT works, do you? Pretty much all that they get to ask you is if the person is considered eligible for rehire. You can't say more, or you're violating the very types of labor laws that WalMart has been ignoring requests to stop violating for YEARS. It's not like this is the first, or even the millionth, time this has come up.

In fact--I'm pretty sure I'm the only one in this particular discussion that knows how it DOES work. First, in many states it is perfectly legal to reveal the reason for termination And, in the ones where it isn't--who do you think is actually worried about violating THAT law? How is your disgruntled ex-employee going to prove it? It's often little more than a single, friendly conversation on the phone--who exactly is going to reveal the contents of that conversation? Me? The grateful colleague who I just saved from unwittingly hiring on a cancerous employee? Good luck, buddy.

Not a whole lot of experience for you in the real workplace, I'm guessing...


Plenty, and to top it off, my wife has worked directly with HR people for about 10 years now, but thanks for whipping out the 'I'm a diuche who thinks he's King Shiat' golden oldie, we haven't heard that on Fark for at least 3 posts...
 
2012-11-16 09:09:02 AM

mbillips: Errbody knows this is just a few Wal-Marts in California, right? The rest of the country's obese dunderheads can riot over discounted Christmas toys to their heart's content.


Yeehaw! Pull up the Hoveround; I know what I'm doing on Black Friday...working, sadly. Though, I am going to try shopping at Target on Thursday night, first time I've ever got to "enjoy" any Black Friday-like shopping activities due to working every Black Friday for the last ...12 years or so. Just going in, grabbing a PS3, and getting out of there.
 
2012-11-16 09:10:31 AM

MithrandirBooga: Silly Jesus: Sergeant Grumbles: Fade2black: Is there a reason why Wal-Mart should pay a wage to employees that would count as gainfully employed? You haven't explained the repercussions when wages go up dollars an hour, to the product they sell or the services they give. Wages go up, cost goes up. Nothing of value was gained except you might feel better about yourself when you go home after your shift.

Raising the pay of Wal-Mart's U.S. workers to a minimum of $12 an hour would lift many out of poverty, reduce their reliance on public assistance, and cost the average consumer, at most, $12.49 a year.

Is there some reason working for Wal-Mart need not be gainful employment besides your opinion of what counts as work?

Why not pay them all $50,000 a year. That would only cost everyone $20 a year. Why not pay them all $100,000 a year? That would cost everyone less than $100 a year. How do you choose the appropriate pay?



Consider this. Walmart makes $15 billion in profit each year. Walmart employees consume $3 billion in government welfare each year.

How about they take a tiny hit off of profit to pay their employees enough to not need welfare, for a start? The employees are each contributing towards the GDP fraction that is being generated, but they are not receiving any of it. It's wage theft, plain and simple.


So generous with other peoples money, nice. Maybe you should run for office
 
2012-11-16 09:12:37 AM

HotWingConspiracy: hocho064: HotWingConspiracy: hocho064: Put Its Promises in Writing
Agree to a global labor agreement guaranteeing the fundamental human right of freedom of association for all of its associates and instruct their suppliers to do the same, and recognize and negotiate with OUR Walmart. Since when is it a requirement that Walmart dictates other companies policies?

They do it all the time when they are cutting deals.

Not sure I agree with you on this.

You don't think Walmart demands certain operational conditions from their suppliers? LOL


Yes but NOT for things like "you need to pay your employees a certain wage DUH

Elevate Global Living Standards
Establish a legally binding global responsible contractor policy requiring contractors and subcontractors to provide living wages, worker safety protections, and respect basic human and labor rights, including freedom of association and freedom from racial and gender discrimination. Again, why is this Walmarts responsibility?

Because they're profiting from it.

And other similar companies arent profiting; Sears, Kohls, Target, H&M, etc? Why should a company have to "overpay" someone just because they demand it?

What?

I get that you're a huge fan of overseas slave labor, but a lot of people aren't. As long as we're competing with Asian orphans on wages, nothing will get better here.


Companies leveraging overseas labor is nothing new. I'm 47 and as long as I can remember, we've seen "Made in China" tags on tons of products growing up.
 
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