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(Crooks & Liars)   Wal-mart workers are planning the company's first ever walk-out. On Black Friday   ( occupyamerica.crooksandliars.com) divider line
    More: Followup, unfair labor practice, Center for Independent Media  
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20668 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Nov 2012 at 8:59 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-15 11:45:44 PM  

WhyteRaven74: steamingpile: Sue for what? Forcing them to show up for the job they said they would show up for? Some of you are farking insane.

it's illegal to fire employees for organizing or trying to organize. It's a federal law, and in some states there are additional laws. Laws go back to when Carnegie Steel called in the Pinkertons and had them get all shooty with some striking workers.


You don't fire them for organizing. You fire them for not showing up to work.
 
2012-11-15 11:45:51 PM  

Mikey1969: lostcat: Wal-Mart was the biggest client of a law firm I used to work for.

The firm defends Wal-Mart against its employees.

This was one of the reasons I stopped enjoying my work there.

I look forward to the outcome of this, even though I'm sure it just means more money in the coffers of the Death Star (nickname of former firm).

WalMart is the most litigated entity on the planet, INCLUDING governments. Scary...


In 2000, 12 farking years ago, they had a lawsuit filed against them every 23 seconds. Yes, even more than the federal government.
 
2012-11-15 11:46:04 PM  
Early Sunday morning: Best time to shop at urban Wal-Mart. Everyone's either in church or sleeping, and I am neither.
 
2012-11-15 11:46:25 PM  

Great Janitor: If they want a better paying job, a better working environment no one is forcing them to work at Walmart, they are free to find new jobs.


It's like you have no idea about the unemployment numbers. Are you really so stupid that you think that people would actually choose to work at Wal-Mart if they had any other option? FFS the people that work there can't even afford to shop there and have to go on government assistance. If you are ok with that then, by all means, please proceed.
 
2012-11-15 11:46:45 PM  

Sergeant Grumbles: Fade2black: I just explained why.

No, you didn't.
You just stated your opinion, and now you've followed up with a second one, an unfounded assumption, and an ad hominem attack.

I'll put it you again:

Is there some reason working for Wal-Mart need not be gainful employment besides your opinion of what counts as work?


Oo Oo I can play this roundabout game too!

Is there a reason why Wal-Mart should pay a wage to employees that would count as gainfully employed? You haven't explained the repercussions when wages go up dollars an hour, to the product they sell or the services they give. Wages go up, cost goes up. Nothing of value was gained except you might feel better about yourself when you go home after your shift.

Roundabout GO!
 
2012-11-15 11:48:39 PM  

Stile4aly: What I've learned from this thread:

If you're an unskilled laborer, you deserve no protections from unsafe or unpleasant working conditions.


Dont forget that increasing pay 4x will have no upward effect on prices.
 
2012-11-15 11:48:44 PM  

BravadoGT: You know what kind of employee I want at my business? The kind that tries to hurt me on arguably the busiest day of the year. GTFO--and God help you if you put me down on your next application and they call me.


Yes, I'm sure you masturbate furiously to the fantasy that one day that phone call will come, ONE DAY you will get to deny another human being of the chance at paying work. "God help you" indeed! Oh, the POWER you have!
 
2012-11-15 11:50:12 PM  
Walmart and other big companies achieve economies of scale due to their size.

a union allows workers to gain that same advantage, and see the benefits of economies of scale.

if you want to take issue with how unions are run, fine (I will probably agree, but they aren't run any better than most companies). but wish for the end of unions? congrats, you don't know jack shiat about economics.
 
2012-11-15 11:50:51 PM  

Silly Jesus: ACallForPeace: Silly Jesus: It's a voluntary exchange. They went to Wal-mart and asked for the ability to exchange their labor for the amount of money that Wal-mart was offering. They weren't recruited or forced to work there. If they don't like the terms of their voluntary contract, they are free to leave and Wal-mart should be free to replace them with someone else.

Voluntarism implies promising (i.e. the freedom to make agreements), and promising implies that individuals are capable of independent judgement and rational deliberation. In addition, it presupposes that they can evaluate and change their actions and relationships. Contracts under capitalism, however, contradict these implications of voluntarism. For, while technically "voluntary" , capitalist contracts result in a denial of liberty. This is because the social relationship of wage-labour involves promising to obey in return for payment. To promise to obey is to deny or to limit, to a greater or lesser degree, individuals' freedom and equality and their ability to exercise these capacities [of independent judgement and rational deliberation]. To promise to obey is to state, that in certain areas, the person making the promise is no longer free to exercise her capacities and decide upon her own actions, and is no longer equal, but subordinate. This results in those obeying no longer making their own decisions. Thus the rational for voluntarism (i.e. that individuals are capable of thinking for themselves and must be allowed to express their individuality and make their own decisions) is violated in a hierarchical relationship as some are in charge and the many obey. Thus any voluntarism which generates relationships of subordination is, by its very nature, incomplete and violates its own justification.

This can be seen from capitalist society, in which workers sell their freedom to a boss in order to live. In effect, under capitalism you are only free to the extent that you can choose whom you will ob ...


jpo2269: So, the "Occupy" folks come up with an idea to encourage WalMart workers to walk off the job on Black Friday with nothing more than a "don't worry, we've got your back..." And despite the fact this is something that originated from the "Occupy" folks, it is being billed as "WalMart workers are organizing..."

At the end of the day whom are the people that will end up getting screwed? It will not be WalMart, it certainly won't be the people behind the "Occupy" movement, it will be the poor WalMart employees that mistakenly believed that "Occupy" actually gave a damn about them as an person.

I will back off me criticism if "Occupy" comes up with the $25K per WalMart employee + insurance benefits for each WalMart employee that walks out on Black Friday, anything short of making good on this, and its just another example of "Occupy" being full of shiat.


Here, here! [takes a shot of rum]
 
2012-11-15 11:51:10 PM  

CujoQuarrel: Mikey1969: Silly Jesus: Mikey1969: Silly Jesus: LULZ. I hope they are all fired. Plenty more people out there who would love their job.

It's hard to "love" a place that locks people in at night and refuses to pay them, let alone pay them needed overtime.

But hey, keep on being clueless, we need people like that here on Fark.

Are they not capable of calling 911? That's called false imprisonment and it's a pretty serious felony.

Not sure. They were told that they were being locked in because it was company policy that the doors were locked when the store was closed. Regardless, it is hard to "love" to have a job like that, which is what I was pointing out in your original statement. I've heard of plenty of people who worked there because they 'had' to, but never anyone that worked there because they "loved" to have the job.

Do you have a pointer to that case? Love to read up on it.


This NY Times article was my first search result.
 
2012-11-15 11:51:27 PM  

Blue_Blazer: Great Janitor: If they want a better paying job, a better working environment no one is forcing them to work at Walmart, they are free to find new jobs.

It's like you have no idea about the unemployment numbers. Are you really so stupid that you think that people would actually choose to work at Wal-Mart if they had any other option? FFS the people that work there can't even afford to shop there and have to go on government assistance. If you are ok with that then, by all means, please proceed.


Oh, we're going to try the excuse of "There are no other jobs out there?" Bullshait. If that were true then websites like Monster would be completely void of jobs. There would be no jobs posted on craigslist. There are jobs out there, you just have to look for them. And if you live in some strange place where there are no jobs, work for yourself. Find something that people aren't willing to and charge them for it. Hell, you can probably become self employed charging lazy ass people money to pick up their dog's shiat and make more money than Walmart pays their own people.
 
2012-11-15 11:51:44 PM  
Okay people, since there are so many who do not understand what it is like for an average Wal-Mart employee:

Meet my sister. She's 31, married, with 3 kids. Her and her husband receive his disability pay from his service in Iraqi Freedom, but it's not enough to pay the bills. She took a "part time" job at nights at Wal-Mart, who told her that she would need to work night shift "until they got someone else", and they'd "giver her more hours", as in 40 instead of 32, until they "got night shift where they wanted it".

In the past ten months, she worked ONE week at less than 40 hours. But she is not allowed to get insurance, because she is a "part-time" employee. She has to be there for one year.

Day shift had an opening. However, her night shift manager said she was a great worker and he needed her on nights, so the day shift position went to a new hire.

At times, she is asked to stay over by her manager and do extra work. This work is on the clock, but there's a catch:

She is scheduled at 10:00 on Friday night. The end-of-week pay period is midnight Friday night. If she has worked over through the week, she must report in, but is not allowed to clock in because she could wind up with OVERTIME. Instead, she has to show that she came in to work on time, then she is free to stand in the parking lot with all the low-lifes who hang out at the Wal-Mart parking lot at 10:00 on Friday night.

But it gets better!

She was denied a raise at her 6-month eval for.... ATTENDANCE!

But she never misses work!

Guess what? All those times she clocked in late on Friday nights to avoid overtime - SHE WAS TARDY!

She just had a meeting with the GM of the store to address the insurance issue. She was told point blank she would not be receiving insurance becasue she was a "part time" employee. So, she changed her availability to ensure she would only be scheduled for 4 nights a week. Two days later, the schedule was changed back to 5 nights a week.

On Black Friday, she is supposed to work "Security", which is going to entail keeping order in these long lines of people waiting to receive pieces of paper they can exchange for their items at the counter.

She's all in favor of this strike.
 
2012-11-15 11:52:17 PM  

ILoveBurritos: On a tangent though, I've read that companies that want to sell with Walmart have to meet certain price guidelines otherwise Walmart won't carry their products and since Walmart is such an important chain to sell through. Companies are basically forced to make cheaper products for these dumbass consumers.


That's not quite it... Companies actually make inferior versions of their products specifically for WalMart. They still make their 'original formula' for everyone else. I saw it in both socks and underwear when I used to buy them there. I continued to buy the same brand outside of WalMart and found a noticeable improvement. My brother in law pointed this out after watching this movie... Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Price

ILoveBurritos: What this really all comes down to is that I hadn't had to buy denim jeans for a decade, and now that I'm looking, all I can find anywhere is paper thin garbage that doesn't feel sturdy at all, anywhere. When I compare it to my old ones, the newer ones are obviously inferior. Why would I want to spend $30 on a cheap pair of jeans I'll end up replacing 5 times in the span that a $60 pair would have lasted me once?


I wouldn't ever buy Levi's at WalMart, but a pair still lasts me 3 or 4 years, and then the first thing to go is the one knee that drops first when I stop at someone's desk to set tup, remove or repair their computer. Otherwise I'd probably get another year or so out of them. The bonus is that by watching for sales, I can still get the Levi's I wear for $32 to $38 a pair.

In short, the only clothes I buy from WalMart are TShirts, and those are only the retro-styled printed ones they have for like $7-$10. All my other clothes I buy at stores like Kohl's or Sears...
 
2012-11-15 11:53:35 PM  

Great Janitor: That is no different than me handing someone a hammer and saying "Now, if you bash your hand with this it could break your hand." and then watch as they bash their hand with said hammer and then listen as a bone or two breaks. No sympathy.


I guess that's what it comes down to, some people, including myself, would still have sympathy for our common man, even if he was dumb enough to hit himself with the hammer. Some people would lock them in a warehouse. You sir, are unsympathetic.
 
2012-11-15 11:53:37 PM  

Great Janitor: Because in towns with Walmarts, there are no other employers at all???


Sigh,

Okay, so where do *all* of these employees go? Do you think there are enough other businesses to absorb even a fraction of the number of people Wal-Mart employs?
 
2012-11-15 11:55:33 PM  

sethen320: So are you saying that it's OK for an employer to ask for ALL of your timewhich is not occupied by eating, sleeping, or travelling to/from work and not pay you enough to actually live on? Even if we eliminate insurance? You're part of the problem if your answer is yes. This isn't a right vs. left or Obama vs Romney thing. It's not even about Wal-Mart specifically. This is about doing the right thing.


Odd indeed. I used to work at Wal-mart. I seemed to have enough to live on and stick money in the stock plan where the company matched part of my contributions.

Maybe the people you are talking about eat too much or something? I don't recall them asking for too much of my time.
 
2012-11-15 11:56:04 PM  

Great Janitor: It's common knowledge that waiters make less than $3/hour.


If by "common knowledge" you mean, just waiters, managers and restaurant owners, I guess you're right.

Otherwise, you're full of shiat. I run into plenty of people who have never known that.

If they want a better paying job, a better working environment no one is forcing them to work at Walmart, they are free to find new jobs.

But I thought the evil Obama had saddled us with eleventy billion percent unemployment after the workers' utopia of George W Bush? I thought people "had" to take absolutely any job they could find? Are you people flipping the script yet again?
 
2012-11-15 11:56:43 PM  

ox45tallboy: Great Janitor: If they want a better paying job, a better working environment no one is forcing them to work at Walmart, they are free to find new jobs.

And you're free to make sweet, sweet love to Christina Hendricks. However, that means getting her to cooperate, just like it means getting another employer to hire you.

Fact is, Wal-Mart runs the other businesses out when they put in a location. You either work there, or you don't work.


Umm, i hate to burst this myth, but they don't. On average, when a Walmart moves in, the number of businesses present beforehand that closes is 4. After 5 years, and if you've ever seen a Walmart built, a ton of crap gets built around it. I'm not going to look for this study tonight, google it yourself if you want to see it.
 
2012-11-15 11:57:06 PM  

jayphat: In 2000, 12 farking years ago, they had a lawsuit filed against them every 23 seconds. Yes, even more than the federal government.


I think the story I read was about 2003, but that seems about like what I remember. I'd forgotten about the 'Every 'x' seconds' part. Like I said: Scary.
 
2012-11-15 11:57:45 PM  
Shiat. People are rabid about their shopping. Won't happen.

media.tumblr.com
 
2012-11-15 11:58:20 PM  

Great Janitor: Oh, we're going to try the excuse of "There are no other jobs out there?" Bullshait. If that were true then websites like Monster would be completely void of jobs. There would be no jobs posted on craigslist. There are jobs out there, you just have to look for them. And if you live in some strange place where there are no jobs, work for yourself. Find something that people aren't willing to and charge them for it. Hell, you can probably become self employed charging lazy ass people money to pick up their dog's shiat and make more money than Walmart pays their own people.


So you're saying:

1.bp.blogspot.com
"If she doesn't like it, she should find a better job!"



Because that's what you sound like. And remember what Steve Buscemi was doing in Tarantino's next movie.
 
2012-11-15 11:58:25 PM  

Stile4aly: What I've learned from this thread:

If you're an unskilled laborer, you deserve no protections from unsafe or unpleasant working conditions.


That is the Republican dream. Heck, I bet when they owned slaved they biatched because they had to feed and shelter them. Face it, Republican/Libertarians won't truly be happy till they have child slaves working for free and sleeping on the ground outside the factories. Sadly, I see some of the more liberal people here bashing Walmart workers too. A job is a job and not everyone wants to be a doctor or a lawyer. There is no shame in any moral job and people shouldn't be put down for earning an honest dollar. It's pathetic how many people here feel so bad about themselves they have to dump on some poor minimum wage worker to make themselves feel important. What a sad world.
 
2012-11-15 11:58:34 PM  

WhyteRaven74: ox45tallboy: so the cost of employee health care (current and future) is not included in the price of their cars.

Funny that having factories in the US hasn't caused the price of cars by Japanese or German companies to increase. It's almost as if the most important thing is how the companies are run, not where.


Uh, they tend to build factories in "right to work" states. I haven't researched it, but I'd venture a guess that foreign car companies influenced the whole "right to work" movement.
 
2012-11-15 11:58:39 PM  

jayphat: Umm, i hate to burst this myth, but they don't. On average, when a Walmart moves in, the number of businesses present beforehand that closes is 4. After 5 years, and if you've ever seen a Walmart built, a ton of crap gets built around it. I'm not going to look for this study tonight, google it yourself if you want to see it.


Yeah, either a bunch of chain restaurants, or places that don't do any business related to WalMart. In other words, no competition.
 
2012-11-15 11:58:55 PM  

Blue_Blazer: It's like you have no idea about the unemployment numbers. Are you really so stupid that you think that people would actually choose to work at Wal-Mart if they had any other option? FFS the people that work there can't even afford to shop there and have to go on government assistance. If you are ok with that then, by all means, please proceed.


He should have said, "they are free to attempt to find new jobs".

Most men reach their 50's and buy a convertible. My dad hit his 50's and quit his $75k/year job as a hospital equipment maintenance technician to work as a fry cook at Burger King, then moved over to Walmart. He could be better, but if he were on Fark, he'd be Bevets-adjacent, ... plus paranoid as all holy hell. I love him, but he's got no where else to go.
As his only son, I can and would get him doing something more promising with his life if he would simply believe that he could 1) do well at it, and 2) not be a paranoid-delusional cluster-fark of a human. But he simply fails to think that he can succeed. That, and he has no people skills. He's not reclusive, he thinks YOU want to be interested in everything HE is interested in... and he's interested in lots of stuff.
Maybe I should try... he was the only one in my family that didn't flip his shiat when I told them I was an atheist, so there's gotta be some good in there, I know it! [/Luke Skywalker Mode]
 
2012-11-15 11:59:02 PM  

Je5tEr: atomic-age: How do you suggest employees sweetly get WM to stop locking them in to work 'off the clock'

Simple. If anyone EVER did that to me it'd be a call to 911 to report that I was being unlawfully imprisoned. And when the cops showed up I'd be standing on the other side of those glass doors with a sledgehammer and I'd tell them that either they get me out of there or I will.


Yeah! And if a guy ever tried to rape me, why I'd just kick him in the balls and laugh! What the hell is wrong with all these people that they can't take a stand and solve their own problems?!

I'll leave this here for the sarcasm-impaired.
 
2012-11-15 11:59:55 PM  

BravadoGT: You know what kind of employee I want at my business? The kind that tries to hurt me on arguably the busiest day of the year. GTFO--and God help you if you put me down on your next application and they call me.


You're not thinking fourth dimensionally.

// You got a problem with that?
 
2012-11-16 12:00:57 AM  

ciberido: CujoQuarrel: Mikey1969: Silly Jesus: Mikey1969: Silly Jesus: LULZ. I hope they are all fired. Plenty more people out there who would love their job.

It's hard to "love" a place that locks people in at night and refuses to pay them, let alone pay them needed overtime.

But hey, keep on being clueless, we need people like that here on Fark.

Are they not capable of calling 911? That's called false imprisonment and it's a pretty serious felony.

Not sure. They were told that they were being locked in because it was company policy that the doors were locked when the store was closed. Regardless, it is hard to "love" to have a job like that, which is what I was pointing out in your original statement. I've heard of plenty of people who worked there because they 'had' to, but never anyone that worked there because they "loved" to have the job.

Do you have a pointer to that case? Love to read up on it.

This NY Times article was my first search result.


Any retail store where the door locks on the inside require a key to unlock them is a fire marshals wet farking dream!
 
2012-11-16 12:01:01 AM  

Fade2black: Is there a reason why Wal-Mart should pay a wage to employees that would count as gainfully employed? You haven't explained the repercussions when wages go up dollars an hour, to the product they sell or the services they give. Wages go up, cost goes up. Nothing of value was gained except you might feel better about yourself when you go home after your shift.


Raising the pay of Wal-Mart's U.S. workers to a minimum of $12 an hour would lift many out of poverty, reduce their reliance on public assistance, and cost the average consumer, at most, $12.49 a year.

Is there some reason working for Wal-Mart need not be gainful employment besides your opinion of what counts as work?
 
2012-11-16 12:01:18 AM  

OgreMagi: Working on Black Friday is pretty much the norm for retail. If having to work that day turns out to be a surprise, you probably are at about your intelligence level for employment prospects.

HOWEVER! Starting Black Friday on 8pm Thanksgiving Day is a dick move by Walmart, Target, and Toys*R*Us. That's a farking family day. Let them have at least that before you work them to death the next day.

I've decided to boycott all businesses that start the holiday sales on Thanksgiving evening. For my xmas shopping, I think I'll go 100% online unless I find something especially nice in a shop that recognizes family time.


This
 
2012-11-16 12:02:27 AM  

ox45tallboy: Great Janitor: Because in towns with Walmarts, there are no other employers at all???

Sigh,

Okay, so where do *all* of these employees go? Do you think there are enough other businesses to absorb even a fraction of the number of people Wal-Mart employs?


Taking a guess, I'm going to say that for those employees who aren't happy working there, there probably are enough other jobs out there to take. They just have to go out and find the job.

moefuggenbrew: Great Janitor: That is no different than me handing someone a hammer and saying "Now, if you bash your hand with this it could break your hand." and then watch as they bash their hand with said hammer and then listen as a bone or two breaks. No sympathy.

I guess that's what it comes down to, some people, including myself, would still have sympathy for our common man, even if he was dumb enough to hit himself with the hammer. Some people would lock them in a warehouse. You sir, are unsympathetic.


There are things that I do sympathize with. Someone gets rear ended in a car wreck by a drunk driver, yes I'm going to feel sympathy for the victims of that wreck. Someone does something of their own freewill and suffers, I'm not going to feel bad. My sister's mother in law died from emphysema and when my sister's husband told me, my response was to say "Pity she made the choice to smoke all those cigarettes."
 
2012-11-16 12:03:10 AM  

jayphat: Umm, i hate to burst this myth, but they don't. On average, when a Walmart moves in, the number of businesses present beforehand that closes is 4. After 5 years, and if you've ever seen a Walmart built, a ton of crap gets built around it. I'm not going to look for this study tonight, google it yourself if you want to see it.


Ummmm I hate to bust your myth, but Wal-Mart also puts in in many places where it doesn't negatively impact local businesses. This is why you provided the average. Tell that to the people in small towns all around the South that feel the impact of a Wal-Mart far, far more than the larger cities, many of which already have a Wal-Mart but the second and/or third Wal-Mart's are included in these averages.

And if you're talking about the "satellite" stores that surround Wal-Mart's, have you noticed that they are invariably huge chains with their own issues and history of treating their employees like crap?
 
2012-11-16 12:03:23 AM  

djkutch: Silly Jesus: LULZ. I hope they are all fired. Plenty more people out there who would love their job.

This. I don't understand why employees shouldn't just be forced to live and work at the job. A little room with a hotplate, if you will. Share a shiater down the hall. I believe the president who should have been explored such policies in China.

Employees should have absolutely no voice. In return, said employees get no pay.


Share a shiatter? What, is a bucket too good for those worthless plebes? Toilets cost money, dammit!

And a hot plate? What is this - The Waldorf Astoria? Next they'll be expecting food that isn't made from old newspapers and ground up apple cores!
 
2012-11-16 12:04:05 AM  

zedster: ...growing up my home number was 425-8864, the local Walmart was 425-8864. We had Walmart employees call in sick to our answering machine.


I don't see what you did there.
 
2012-11-16 12:04:32 AM  

WhyteRaven74: jpo2269: and its just another example of "Occupy" being full of shiat.

why not hold WalMart's feet to the flames for treating their employees the way they do? After all, if WalMart does it right, we're not even having this discussion.


Man, you need to update your Amazon wishlist.

As for holding Walmart's feet to the fire, I wish the employees luck, but in this economy it's quite possibly the worst time to try and do it.
 
2012-11-16 12:04:46 AM  
"a ton of crap gets built around it. I'm not going to look for this study tonight,..."

Yes, a ton of chain stores owned by large corporations do build strip malls near Walmarts.
But they don't sell the same products.

Walmart closes small business. Those franchises around the area are owned by big business.

But drive the miles of back roads and look at what is not there anymore.

"What is seen.....and what is unseen"
 
2012-11-16 12:05:01 AM  
for those cheering on wal-mart:

Wal-Mart's intentionally low wages force employees to need approximately $420,000 per year, per store, totalling $2.66 BILLION annually in Food Stamps and other taxpayer assistance...to survive.

Wal-Mart's intentionally low wages and lack of covered benefits cost taxpayers over $1.02 BILLION a year in healthcare costs.

Wal-Mart's intentionally low wages cost taxpayers as much as $225 MILLION in free and reduced price lunches for school-age children.

Wal-Mart's intentionally low wages cost taxpayers over $780 MILLION in tax deductions for low-income families.


Link


and let's compare the labor costs of unionized Costco vs Wal-marts Sam's Club, shall we? (from those commies at Harvard Business School)

Costco's practices are clearly more expensive, but they have an offsetting cost-containment effect: Turnover is unusually low, at 17% overall and just 6% after one year's employment. In contrast, turnover at Wal-Mart is 44% a year'close to the industry average. In skilled and semi-skilled jobs, the fully loaded cost of replacing a worker who leaves (excluding lost productivity) is typically 1.5 to 2.5 times the worker's annual salary. To be conservative, let's assume that the total cost of replacing an hourly employee at Costco or Sam's Club is only 60% of his or her annual salary. If a Costco employee quits, the cost of replacing him or her is therefore $21,216. If a Sam's Club employee leaves, the cost is $12,617. At first glance, it may seem that the low-wage approach at Sam's Club would result in lower turnover costs. But if its turnover rate is the same as Wal-Mart's, Sam's Club loses more than twice as many people as Costco does: 44% versus 17%. By this calculation, the total annual cost to Costco of employee churn is $244 million, whereas the total annual cost to Sam's Club is $612 million. That's $5,274 per Sam's Club employee, versus $3,628 per Costco employee.

While Sam's Club and Costco generated $37 billion and $43 billion, respectively, in U.S. sales last year, Costco did it with 38% fewer employees-admittedly, in part by selling to higher-income shoppers and offering more high-end goods. As a result, Costco generated $21,805 in U.S. operating profit per hourly employee, compared with $11,615 at Sam's Club. Costco's stable, productive workforce more than offsets its higher costs.


Link
 
2012-11-16 12:05:33 AM  

jayphat: As a former Walmart manager, i say, Fark Em. You'll never notice on Black Friday. There's so many damn people there that it's never going to be enough. Besides, reports say it's something like 100 people at most across the country. With 1.2 million people working across the country, yeah, let those 100 people walk.


I salute those with the courage to walk.
 
2012-11-16 12:05:43 AM  

Fade2black: Is there a reason why Wal-Mart should pay a wage to employees that would count as gainfully employed?


It already does. You need a new soapbox.

Here ya go:

Definition
Gainful employment is a general term referring to a job, especially a job that a student takes after graduation. In the most basic sense, gainful employment is any type of employment that leads to profit for the employee. Gainful employment is often assumed to be a source of consistent revenue for the worker, with the classical connotations associated with a steady job.


Link

In short, "gainfully employed" means having a paying job.
 
2012-11-16 12:06:11 AM  

Great Janitor: Taking a guess, I'm going to say that for those employees who aren't happy working there, there probably are enough other jobs out there to take. They just have to go out and find the job.


Indeed. You are merely taking a guess. Do you know how long my sister had to wait before the opening in Wal-Mart came up?
 
2012-11-16 12:06:43 AM  

Mikey1969: Great Janitor: It's common knowledge that waiters make less than $3/hour.

If by "common knowledge" you mean, just waiters, managers and restaurant owners, I guess you're right.

Otherwise, you're full of shiat. I run into plenty of people who have never known that.


You run into plenty of stupid people. I learned this in high school when I had classmates telling me how little they were making as a waitress.

If they want a better paying job, a better working environment no one is forcing them to work at Walmart, they are free to find new jobs.

But I thought the evil Obama had saddled us with eleventy billion percent unemployment after the workers' utopia of George W Bush? I thought people "had" to take absolutely any job they could find? Are you people flipping the script yet again?


Read my posts, find out where I said the name Obama. People aren't working crappy jobs because of Obama or Bush. They work crappy jobs because they chose to accept those crappy jobs.
 
2012-11-16 12:06:45 AM  

FuryOfFirestorm: djkutch: Silly Jesus: LULZ. I hope they are all fired. Plenty more people out there who would love their job.

This. I don't understand why employees shouldn't just be forced to live and work at the job. A little room with a hotplate, if you will. Share a shiater down the hall. I believe the president who should have been explored such policies in China.

Employees should have absolutely no voice. In return, said employees get no pay.

Share a shiatter? What, is a bucket too good for those worthless plebes? Toilets cost money, dammit!

And a hot plate? What is this - The Waldorf Astoria? Next they'll be expecting food that isn't made from old newspapers and ground up apple cores!


images.huffingtonpost.com
 
2012-11-16 12:07:15 AM  
i24.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-16 12:08:47 AM  

BravadoGT: You know what kind of employee I want at my business? The kind that tries to hurt me on arguably the busiest day of the year. GTFO--and God help you if you put me down on your next application and they call me.


You don't know how THAT works, do you? Pretty much all that they get to ask you is if the person is considered eligible for rehire. You can't say more, or you're violating the very types of labor laws that WalMart has been ignoring requests to stop violating for YEARS. It's not like this is the first, or even the millionth, time this has come up.
 
2012-11-16 12:09:45 AM  

Mikey1969: In short, "gainfully employed" means having a paying job.


Being paid so little as to have to go on public assistance is not gainfully employed by any definition.
 
2012-11-16 12:09:49 AM  
The Wal-mart worker I know:

My aunt is pushing 70. In her time, she was way ahead of the curve. When her friends were getting married, she was getting a degree. She worked as a HIgh School English teacher for over 30 years. For most of her life she was a respected, independent professional.

Unfortunately, she's not perfect, went through a terribly messy divorce after being cheated on, and it knocked her down enough that she never quite regained her footing in life. Now, her pension doesn't cover her living expenses, so she works at Wal-mart. Where she gets to be stereotyped as a lazy, stupid loser who doesn't even deserve basic laborer protections for safety and health.
 
2012-11-16 12:10:07 AM  
Damn unions. Always standing up for the takers not the makers.
 
2012-11-16 12:11:49 AM  
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-11-16 12:12:10 AM  

Great Janitor: Read my posts, find out where I said the name Obama. People aren't working crappy jobs because of Obama or Bush. They work crappy jobs because they chose to accept those crappy jobs

were all that was available, due to employer collusion.

FTFY.

People with your philosophy really have no idea what life is like for many people. Do you know how much stress and effort and money it takes to change jobs? To rearrange yourself and your family around a new schedule? Especially when you're married with three kids?
 
2012-11-16 12:12:38 AM  

dumbobruni: for those cheering on wal-mart:

Wal-Mart's intentionally low wages force employees to need approximately $420,000 per year, per store, totalling $2.66 BILLION annually in Food Stamps and other taxpayer assistance...to survive.

Wal-Mart's intentionally low wages and lack of covered benefits cost taxpayers over $1.02 BILLION a year in healthcare costs.

Wal-Mart's intentionally low wages cost taxpayers as much as $225 MILLION in free and reduced price lunches for school-age children.

Wal-Mart's intentionally low wages cost taxpayers over $780 MILLION in tax deductions for low-income families.

Link


and let's compare the labor costs of unionized Costco vs Wal-marts Sam's Club, shall we? (from those commies at Harvard Business School)

Costco's practices are clearly more expensive, but they have an offsetting cost-containment effect: Turnover is unusually low, at 17% overall and just 6% after one year's employment. In contrast, turnover at Wal-Mart is 44% a year'close to the industry average. In skilled and semi-skilled jobs, the fully loaded cost of replacing a worker who leaves (excluding lost productivity) is typically 1.5 to 2.5 times the worker's annual salary. To be conservative, let's assume that the total cost of replacing an hourly employee at Costco or Sam's Club is only 60% of his or her annual salary. If a Costco employee quits, the cost of replacing him or her is therefore $21,216. If a Sam's Club employee leaves, the cost is $12,617. At first glance, it may seem that the low-wage approach at Sam's Club would result in lower turnover costs. But if its turnover rate is the same as Wal-Mart's, Sam's Club loses more than twice as many people as Costco does: 44% versus 17%. By this calculation, the total annual cost to Costco of employee churn is $244 million, whereas the total annual cost to Sam's Club is $612 million. That's $5,274 per Sam's Club employee, versus $3,628 per Costco employee.

While Sam's Club and Costco generated $37 billion and $43 billi ...


Right when I left Walmart in 2008, there was a study done using local social data about workers from Walmart and the whole foodstamp usage. I can't find the study, I looked for 5 mins and thats all the effort I'm putting in tonight. I hope you're sitting down, but Walmart actually REMOVES people from food stamp rolls. About 4% of employees are on assistance when they start with Walmart. By the 6 month mark, that number drops to 2%. After 18 months, 1%. Again, look for the study. I was shocked when I read it.

Yes there will be a large number of people on foodstamps working for Walmart. They are the largest private employer in the country. You'll probably be shocked, SHOCKED to know that state and federal workers are on foodstamps too. Maybe they need their pay raised as well.
 
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