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(Crooks & Liars)   Wal-mart workers are planning the company's first ever walk-out. On Black Friday   (occupyamerica.crooksandliars.com) divider line 709
    More: Followup, unfair labor practice, Center for Independent Media  
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20627 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Nov 2012 at 8:59 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-15 10:36:54 PM
Working on Black Friday is pretty much the norm for retail. If having to work that day turns out to be a surprise, you probably are at about your intelligence level for employment prospects.

HOWEVER! Starting Black Friday on 8pm Thanksgiving Day is a dick move by Walmart, Target, and Toys*R*Us. That's a farking family day. Let them have at least that before you work them to death the next day.

I've decided to boycott all businesses that start the holiday sales on Thanksgiving evening. For my xmas shopping, I think I'll go 100% online unless I find something especially nice in a shop that recognizes family time.
 
2012-11-15 10:36:58 PM
What I find particularly odious is not only the Walton's wealth or how crappy they treat their employees but the company's success at gouging local governments out of amazing amounts of TIF that THEY DON"T EVEN NEED.

they are a cancer on this country and should be shunned, boycotted, bankrupted, and sent packing back to Bentonville where Sam Walton's heirs themselves can find gainful employment in demeaning jobs instead of sucking the life blood out of this country.

harumph!
 
2012-11-15 10:39:36 PM
The Internationale

Go WallyWorld workers...anyone that has to do the farking Walmart cheer deserves $12/hr.
 
2012-11-15 10:40:39 PM
Ah I see the union extortion and intimidation racket for Wal Mart's unwillingness to pay protection money continues.
 
2012-11-15 10:40:44 PM

fanbladesaresharp: I'll pay you $9 an hour. Take it or leave it. It doesn't require a degree in engineering to run a farking cash register.


Nine bucks an hour is $12 bucks an hour after taxes.
 
2012-11-15 10:40:57 PM

Mikey1969: CujoQuarrel: Do you have a pointer to that case? Love to read up on it.

Here's a quick story I found...
Link


Ok. Looks like they could still get out in case of fire (emergency exits and a manager with the key). Was wondering how they could do it and not get sued since that would be a safety issue.

Looks like from the article all they did was lock the doors to keep people out.

I would think that every store would lock it's doors at night when restocking or cleaning.
 
2012-11-15 10:41:26 PM

AdolfOliverPanties: What's cool about having someone on your ignore list is that you can put a note in there that will be displayed each time the ignored person posts something.

And it is filter-free.


What's cool about the ignore feature is that it shows the passive aggressive douchebags who love to tout their own smugness about ignoring someone instead of just not reading their comment.
 
2012-11-15 10:41:54 PM
All I can say about Wal-Mart employees is this, growing up my home number was 425-8864, the local Walmart was 425-8864. We had Walmart employees call in sick to our answering machine.

That being said, good luck to them.
 
2012-11-15 10:42:16 PM
The workers are demanding the following from Walmart:

Improve Workers' Lives
Pay a minimum of $25,000/year and guarantee quality, affordable health coverage for all


No employer has ever hired me out of a desire to improve my life. They hired me out of a desire to exchange their money for my labor, just as I accepted the job out of a desire to exchange my labor for their money. Whoever wrote this has a fundamentally warped view of the employer/employee relationship.

Also, vague and non-quantifiable adjectives such as "quality" and "affordable" are an appeal to emotion and devoid of actual meaning.

Rebuild Communities
Sign on to a national community benefits agreement that ensures as Walmart expands into new markets, it strengthens communities, protects the environment.


Again, the appeal to emotion and the vague meaninglessness, with some extra stupidity based on a complete misunderstanding of the concept of a community benefits agreement. CBAs, where they exist, are supposed to serve the interests of a local community. There is no "national community", so the idea of a national CBA is idiotic, except as a legal bludgeon--which is what they actually want.

Put Its Promises in Writing
Agree to a global labor agreement guaranteeing the fundamental human right of freedom of association for all of its associates and instruct their suppliers to do the same.


In other words, "Agree to a unionized workforce, and agree to unionize all new stores going forward. Oh, and use your influence as the world's largest retailer to force your suppliers to unionize." Before they do that, they should ask one of their suppliers--Hostess--about their experience with a unionized workforce.

Idiotic, pigheaded union leadership is driving Hostess toward liquidation because they believe that NOT working (and thus earning NO money) is somehow better than actually continuing to work, but for less money.

Elevate Global Living Standards
Establish a legally binding global responsible contractor policy requiring contractors and subcontractors to provide living wages, worker safety protections, and respect basic human and labor rights


And who would decide what constitutes these things? Probably not anyone who actually has to bear the costs of their implementation. Unions love to impose rules without regard to the costs, and that has proven disastrous for the steel industry, the auto industry, airlines, and other heavily-unionized sectors of the economy.

As a side note to all of the arrogant, affluent liberals who think so highly of themselves when they prevent Wal-Mart from opening stores in New York City: the next time you look down your nose at Wal-Mart as you head to Whole Foods to pay $20 for some free-range organic cruelty-free wheatgrass, remember that there are hundreds of thousands of people in that city who would benefit far more from access to cheaper groceries than they ever will from your smug, condescending concern.
 
2012-11-15 10:43:13 PM
As a former Walmart manager, i say, Fark Em. You'll never notice on Black Friday. There's so many damn people there that it's never going to be enough. Besides, reports say it's something like 100 people at most across the country. With 1.2 million people working across the country, yeah, let those 100 people walk.
 
2012-11-15 10:43:19 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: fanbladesaresharp: I'll pay you $9 an hour. Take it or leave it. It doesn't require a degree in engineering to run a farking cash register.

Nine bucks an hour is $12 bucks an hour after taxes.


And my 36 an hour is 27 after taxes. You still haven't made a valid point.
 
2012-11-15 10:44:21 PM

Shadow Blasko: AdolfOliverPanties: Shadow Blasko: [Although apparently you can have until 8 if you blow your department manager... at least at one store]

Nice friends you have there.

What makes you think the friend is the department manager?

The hell is wrong with you.


So, your friends are the sort that give out blowjobs so they can show up 3hrs late to their Wal-Mart shift. I dunno if that's better...
 
2012-11-15 10:45:15 PM
I used to work at the Wal-Mart home office. I'm pretty sure they didn't like unions.
 
2012-11-15 10:45:21 PM

djkutch: Silly Jesus: LULZ. I hope they are all fired. Plenty more people out there who would love their job.

This. I don't understand why employees shouldn't just be forced to live and work at the job. A little room with a hotplate, if you will. Share a shiater down the hall. I believe the president who should have been explored such policies in China.

Employees should have absolutely no voice. In return, said employees get no pay.


They get their voice. They just get it out in the parking lot and then the unemployment line.

It's just like withholding spousal sex for negotiation purposes. It is effective only so long as it is cheaper to keep you around than to get rid of you.
 
2012-11-15 10:45:51 PM

sethen320: Them's revolution words.


We're already at banana republic levels of wealth disparity in the US. We have people that will defend the rights of billionaires to pay ridiculously low tax rates, but when the employees of the billionaires ask for healthcare or a living wage they have no rights at all.

So, who ends up paying for healthcare for WalMart employees? We do. Walmart employees qualify for medicaid because their billionaire bosses, whose wealth is greater than that of the bottom 123,500,000 Americans combined, won't pay their employees a living wage or provide healthcare.

You can't run a society the way we have been doing for the last 30 years and not expect it to break at some point.
 
2012-11-15 10:47:34 PM

Great Janitor: n short, Walmart workers, you knew what you were getting into when you filled out the job application.


And thus, Wal-Mart is absolved of absolutely all responsibility to you.

/If you're not saying that, don't imply it.
 
2012-11-15 10:48:39 PM

Gyrfalcon: Great Janitor: Sliding Carp: $5.00 says the party of small government, individual freedom, and free market will find a way to claim the government should force them back to work.

Why should they? Just fire the ones who walk out and replace them. Odds are they won't be missed.

Or, here's how I look at it, if I were working at Walmart, I would, first of all, know that like it or not, working Black Friday was going to happen. All things considered, I'd rather work at the start of the sale on Thanksgiving than on Friday because at least on Thursday I'd get holiday pay. Secondly, knowing the kind of customers and the numbers of customers that show on Black Friday, I'd be a bit pissed that my coworkers decided to skip out on a major day at work instead of doing the job that they were hired to do.

In short, Walmart workers, you knew what you were getting into when you filled out the job application. If you don't like the situation of having to work Black Friday, quit your job and find a different one.

It's a toss-up. It's hard for me to say, because I don't know exactly the pitch Walmart gives the poor & desperate who fill out applications for their crappy jobs; otoh, I've been in a position where I would have taken ANYTHING just to have an income (almost--never big-box retail). So on the one hand, you can say yes, they knew what they were getting into: A crappy job with crappy pay and almost zero benefits where they could fire you for no reason and unionizing was tantamount to murder or worse.

However, in today's economy, you can't just "quit and find a different job" because there aren't really any other jobs out there, and employers know it. They can screw employees with impunity, knowing their workers have zero recourse and zero options. Low pay? No benefits? Bad hours? "Go find another job--Oh, wait, YOU CAN'T! HAHAHAHAHA!" The employer goes off to twirl his mustache and tie another blonde to the train tracks, and the employee can only seethe in fury and hop ...


I don't know what they tell their people before they get hired, but honestly, how do you not know that working at Walmart isn't a pleasant experience? My first job was working as a bagger at Kroger. I knew after orientation that I was in for minimum wage suck. Actually, I knew during orientation that I was in for minimum wage sucked. What did I do? After three weeks I was looking for a different job. If you don't like where you are at, it's not up to the government or your employer to change. It's up to you.

As far as "in today economy, you can't just quit and find a different job", what economy are you in? In the past 30 days I've had four job offers. One was with a Fortune 100 company that called me up for a job. Now I work in sales, come to find out, companies are really on the look out for sales people. Get over the idea that commission only is evil or scary, and commission only rocks. Make $10/hour, work a 40 hour work week and make $400 minus taxes. Me, I can work less than 40 hours a week and make $5,000 and since I make my own hours, I can do that one week and take the following week off.
 
2012-11-15 10:48:41 PM

Gyrfalcon: because there aren't really any other jobs out there


B.S.

I work for a welfare office. there are jobs out there, enough for people to find second jobs and enough for welfare recipients to close their cases all the time because their new income is over the limit. the obama recovery is in full swing
 
2012-11-15 10:48:44 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: sethen320: I wish we didn't even need to have these kinds arguments.

I think as a country a lot of us have forgotten that there is a difference between what's legally OK and what's morally right. This seems to be the root of a lot of or problems and disagreements, at least in my opinion it is.

You're spot on.
It began when presidential candidate George Bush I walked off the interview with Dan Rather because Rather dared ask his majesty about Iran-Contra. Right then and there, I realized we were dealing with people who would didn't give a shiat about doing the right thing and that they obviously thought the rules didn't apply to them. They may have been (barely) limited by laws, but anything not explicitly prohibited by law was possible, no matter what the moral implications of right or wrong. Bush One just continued the Reagan shenanigans except badly and suffered the crashing economy that was the Gipper legacy. Clinton rode the dot-com bubble to fame, then up stepped Junior, even more amoral than his daddy. eight years of his psychodrama nearly wrecked the nation, leaving it more divided and weakened than ever before, with wages depressed and economic equality at record disparity. Along the way, we became a nation of grifters and takers arguing with those still possessing a shred of social conscience while we all became poorer. The poorer we became, the more frightened we became and the more the polarized sides lashed out at each other. A meteor strike would be a gift.


Good thoughts, but I don't agree with the meteor strike thing :) I also think this is a problem which plagues both right and left, though the right is definitely more prone to this behavior. It's greed pure and simple.

I know it sounds silly but I think a lot of it comes down to the way we run our stock market. Right now people invest in stocks in a way not originally intended. Everyone wants to flip them. They want to buy at $20 and sell at $40. They are not interested in dividends or profit sharing. Originally stocks were about reaping some of the income of the company you helped to build through investment. Because people are really only interested in the paper value of the stock which they are looking to flip at any time, they demand higher and higher profits quarter after quarter. This means they are expecting infinite growth, which is impossible to sustain, regardless of what type of government you have. This shareholder expectation of "more more more" causes CEOs and boards to make decisions to increase the bottom line as much as possible constantly because simply making a shiat ton of money every year is not enough. Now they must make the same shiat ton of money + an additional 50% because that's what the shareholders demand. And if they don't make it then they will be voted out. This leads to ammoral decisions by officers which eventually trickles down to managers, who (in fear of their jobs) enforce them.

Basically our motto is "You're not successful unless you're more sucessful than last year". It doesn't matter if you make way more money than you ever expected. You must always make at least that much again + more, or you are running at a loss as far as shareholders are concerned. This is so messed up because in the end everyone eventually gets screwed. You cannot possibly make more than you did last time forever.
 
2012-11-15 10:49:22 PM
Walmart makes 15 billion net profit and over 2 million employees, Obamacare will eat all that up ( $7500. per employee). Expect to see price increases unless they make everyone part time workers.
 
2012-11-15 10:50:02 PM

AdolfOliverPanties: I will gladly boycott Wal-Mart on Black Friday.

/just as I do on the other 364 days of the year


But 2012 is a leap year! Was there a moment of weakness in June?
 
2012-11-15 10:50:44 PM

Great Janitor: I don't know what they tell their people before they get hired, but honestly, how do you not know that working at Walmart isn't a pleasant experience?


And therefore, we should never, ever take steps to make the experience better.

/Again, if you're not saying that, don't imply it.
 
2012-11-15 10:51:05 PM

fanbladesaresharp: I'll pay you $9 an hour. Take it or leave it. It doesn't require a degree in engineering to run a farking cash register.


Is there some reason working for Wal-Mart need not be gainful employment besides your opinion of what counts as work?
 
2012-11-15 10:51:50 PM
I worked at Wal-Mart. If they try to walk out as those customers are going in they are going to die.
 
2012-11-15 10:52:49 PM
Has anyone blamed unions yet, because it's probably their fault
 
2012-11-15 10:53:41 PM

IlGreven: Great Janitor: n short, Walmart workers, you knew what you were getting into when you filled out the job application.

And thus, Wal-Mart is absolved of absolutely all responsibility to you.

/If you're not saying that, don't imply it.


No, you've summed up what I said. Feeling sorry for Walmart employees is kind of like feeling sorry for that guy who purposely shoot himself in the foot
 
2012-11-15 10:54:11 PM
Oh, will the herpa derpas get a shock when they try to Chick-fil-A Walmart.

They'll show up at Walmart intending to support management by buying something. AND THEY WILL BE TRAMPLED FOR $30 DVD PLAYER AND A PALLET OF HUGGIES.
 
HBK
2012-11-15 10:57:01 PM

Fade2black: HotIgneous Intruder: fanbladesaresharp: I'll pay you $9 an hour. Take it or leave it. It doesn't require a degree in engineering to run a farking cash register.

Nine bucks an hour is $12 bucks an hour after taxes.

And my 36 an hour is 27 after taxes. You still haven't made a valid point.


I hope people don't pay you $36 an hour to understand jokes. Because you suck at it.
 
2012-11-15 10:57:04 PM

Fade2black: AdolfOliverPanties: What's cool about having someone on your ignore list is that you can put a note in there that will be displayed each time the ignored person posts something.

And it is filter-free.

What's cool about the ignore feature is that it shows the passive aggressive douchebags who love to tout their own smugness about ignoring someone instead of just not reading their comment.


Actually, what's best about the ignore feature is using the 'Favorites' list instead, and classifying people, whether 'Friends' or not to remind you about them. You can list someone as a favorite merely for being a stupid prick. Those I like to make Purple and label as 'Purple DERPle'. Not sure where I'd categorize you though, since you don't seem to be bright enough to understand why people might need such a thing as an "Ignore" list on a place like Fark where stories can get 300+ comments before you even realize there is a new story.
 
2012-11-15 10:57:28 PM

Cybernetic: As a side note to all of the arrogant, affluent liberals who think so highly of themselves when they prevent Wal-Mart from opening stores in New York City: the next time you look down your nose at Wal-Mart as you head to Whole Foods to pay $20 for some free-range organic cruelty-free wheatgrass, remember that there are hundreds of thousands of people in that city who would benefit far more from access to cheaper groceries than they ever will from your smug, condescending concern.


Stockholm Syndrome, I'd guess.
Some people don't even know they're free.
 
2012-11-15 10:57:45 PM

IlGreven: Great Janitor: I don't know what they tell their people before they get hired, but honestly, how do you not know that working at Walmart isn't a pleasant experience?

And therefore, we should never, ever take steps to make the experience better.

/Again, if you're not saying that, don't imply it.


It's up to the employees to make things better. It's not up to me. It's not up to the government. If the employees hate working there that much, they should do something about it. They are free to leave, find a different job, what ever.
 
2012-11-15 10:58:38 PM

born_yesterday: MFAWG: RedVentrue: Thanks for the heads up, subby. I'll go on Sunday to make my offering to the Capitalist Temple.

The demand side needs to speak loudly here. So stay the duck away from there

Frankly, I cannot understand the mindset of anyone that would spend Thanksgiving shopping. It's my favorite holiday of the year. Go to a friend's house, big ol' meal, football, beer, more food, nap, more food. Being thankful for having plenty, and appreciating it with friends. I love it.

I did Black Friday once, and got some great deals, but not great enough to deal with that madness again. But...not even taking a day to give thanks? That's farked up.


Thank you. I VERY RELUCTANTLY went to a store to get something my wife wanted about 5 years ago. I drove by, saw the line, realized what the hell I was doing, and never even stopped. That's the closest I've ever come. I said it a while back in another thread, but I'll say it again here: I believe it's my moral duty NOT to patronize stores who choose to ruin their employees' holidays. There is absolutley NO reason black Friday can't start on Friday. There is nothing in any store that I need/want so bad that I need to be a part of ruining someone elses family/personal time. I don't care if they celebrate that holiday or not. Almost everyone else who is non-essential gets it, they should too. If they WANT to work it that's fine, but being required to come in and sell shiatty plastic junk...that's really not necessary.
 
2012-11-15 10:58:55 PM

HBK: Fade2black: HotIgneous Intruder: fanbladesaresharp: I'll pay you $9 an hour. Take it or leave it. It doesn't require a degree in engineering to run a farking cash register.

Nine bucks an hour is $12 bucks an hour after taxes.

And my 36 an hour is 27 after taxes. You still haven't made a valid point.

I hope people don't pay you $36 an hour to understand jokes. Because you suck at it.


Har.
 
2012-11-15 10:59:40 PM

timujin: And hence the strike... it has to start somewhere. It might not work out for these folks, though striking on Black Friday does seem like a position of at least some level of strength, there's no way Wal-mart is going to find enough people and have them trained in one week.


Really? All they would have to do it offer workers time and half from the neighboring wal-marts.
If it hurt, then pay double time and shuttle bus the workers in. Eventually you can staff the store.
You also can increase the pay of the workers that did not go on strike, and let them fill any slots open in the newly vacated dept manager slots.
 
2012-11-15 11:00:45 PM
What could go wrong?
s16.postimage.org

Walmart Management will laugh this off.
s9.postimage.org

What would Henry Rollins do?
s12.postimage.org
 
2012-11-15 11:00:46 PM
If it sucks so badly to work there, farking quit. Dumbasses.

Of course, if you walk out on black friday, you might not have to.

Most of the walmart employees I've encountered wouldn't even be worth $1.25 an hour. They act like the world owes them.
 
2012-11-15 11:01:01 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: fanbladesaresharp: I'll pay you $9 an hour. Take it or leave it. It doesn't require a degree in engineering to run a farking cash register.

Is there some reason working for Wal-Mart need not be gainful employment besides your opinion of what counts as work?


Have you heard of entry level jobs to get your skills in order, so you can actually take some initiative to move on to a better paying job through school, training, or perseverance? Not everything is handed out on a silver platter (yet, the dems have 4 more years). If that was the case, high school kids would be basking in riches from Mcdonald's.

Retail and Fast Food is tradionally entry level jobs. They are used for job experience and training so you can move on to bigger and better. They are not jobs built around you deciding you're entitled to a pension and a petty cash fund.
 
2012-11-15 11:01:04 PM

Mitt Romneys Tax Return: sethen320: Them's revolution words.

We're already at banana republic levels of wealth disparity in the US. We have people that will defend the rights of billionaires to pay ridiculously low tax rates, but when the employees of the billionaires ask for healthcare or a living wage they have no rights at all.

So, who ends up paying for healthcare for WalMart employees? We do. Walmart employees qualify for medicaid because their billionaire bosses, whose wealth is greater than that of the bottom 123,500,000 Americans combined, won't pay their employees a living wage or provide healthcare.

You can't run a society the way we have been doing for the last 30 years and not expect it to break at some point.


I never said I disagreed with you.
 
2012-11-15 11:01:36 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: I'm sure walmart is really struggling in this economy.
What's that you say? No way. Really?
Ok.
I'll just leave this here:
Bernie Sanders says Walmart heirs own more wealth than bottom 40 percent of Americans
Well, goodness, it's true.
snip:
No. 9: Jim Walton, $23.7 billion
No. 10: Alice Walton, $23.3 billion
No. 11: S. Robson Walton, oldest son of Sam Walton, $23.1 billion
No. 103: Ann Walton Kroenke, $3.9 billion
No. 139: Nancy Walton Laurie, $3.4 billion

That's a grand total of $102.7 billion for the whole family.

Sylvia Allegretto, a labor economist at the Center on Wage and Employment Dynamics at the University of California-Berkeley, compared the Waltons' cumulative net worth with that of the overall population, as cited in the Survey of Consumer Finances. (She used the Waltons' wealth from 2010, which was valued at $89.5 billion.)

Allegretto found that in 2007, the wealth held by the six Waltons was equal to that of the bottom 30.5 percent of families in the U.S. In 2010, the Waltons' share equaled the entire bottom 41.5 percent of families.

Walmart can afford raises for everyone.


Obama can afford to pay all the workers himself. He doesnt need more than 50k a year. His rent and expenses are paid.
 
2012-11-15 11:01:57 PM

Great Janitor: It's up to the employees to make things better.


What do you think this strike is about?
 
2012-11-15 11:02:50 PM

Fade2black: Have you heard of entry level jobs to get your skills in order, so you can actually take some initiative to move on to a better paying job through school, training, or perseverance? Not everything is handed out on a silver platter (yet, the dems have 4 more years). If that was the case, high school kids would be basking in riches from Mcdonald's.

Retail and Fast Food is tradionally entry level jobs. They are used for job experience and training so you can move on to bigger and better. They are not jobs built around you deciding you're entitled to a pension and a petty cash fund.


Is there some reason working for Wal-Mart need not be gainful employment besides your opinion of what counts as work?
 
2012-11-15 11:02:54 PM

Silly Jesus: It's a voluntary exchange. They went to Wal-mart and asked for the ability to exchange their labor for the amount of money that Wal-mart was offering. They weren't recruited or forced to work there. If they don't like the terms of their voluntary contract, they are free to leave and Wal-mart should be free to replace them with someone else.


Voluntarism implies promising (i.e. the freedom to make agreements), and promising implies that individuals are capable of independent judgement and rational deliberation. In addition, it presupposes that they can evaluate and change their actions and relationships. Contracts under capitalism, however, contradict these implications of voluntarism. For, while technically "voluntary" , capitalist contracts result in a denial of liberty. This is because the social relationship of wage-labour involves promising to obey in return for payment. To promise to obey is to deny or to limit, to a greater or lesser degree, individuals' freedom and equality and their ability to exercise these capacities [of independent judgement and rational deliberation]. To promise to obey is to state, that in certain areas, the person making the promise is no longer free to exercise her capacities and decide upon her own actions, and is no longer equal, but subordinate. This results in those obeying no longer making their own decisions. Thus the rational for voluntarism (i.e. that individuals are capable of thinking for themselves and must be allowed to express their individuality and make their own decisions) is violated in a hierarchical relationship as some are in charge and the many obey. Thus any voluntarism which generates relationships of subordination is, by its very nature, incomplete and violates its own justification.

This can be seen from capitalist society, in which workers sell their freedom to a boss in order to live. In effect, under capitalism you are only free to the extent that you can choose whom you will obey! Freedom, however, must mean more than the right to change masters. Voluntary servitude is still servitude. For if, as Rousseau put it, sovereignty, "for the same reason as makes it inalienable, cannot be represented" neither can it be sold nor temporarily nullified by a hiring contract. Rousseau famously argued that the "people of England regards itself as free; but it is grossly mistaken; it is free only during the election of members of parliament. As soon as they are elected, slavery overtakes it, and it is nothing." [The Social Contract and Discourses, p. 266]

Of course it is claimed that entering wage labour is a "voluntary" undertaking, from which both sides allegedly benefit. However, due to past initiations of force (e.g. the seizure of land by conquest), the control of the state by the capitalist class plus the tendency for capital to concentrate, a relative handful of people now control vast wealth, depriving all others access to the means of life. Thus denial of free access to the means of life is based ultimately on the principle of "might makes right." And as Murray Bookchin so rightly points out, "the means of life must be taken for what they literally are: the means without which life is impossible. To deny them to people is more than 'theft' . . . it is outright homicide." [Remaking Society, p. 187]

It is clear that when a person who is mugged hands over their money to the mugger they do so because they prefer it to the "next best alternative." As such, it is correct that people agree to sell their liberty to a boss because their "next best alternative" is worse (utter poverty or starvation are not found that appealing for some reason). But so what? The capitalists have systematically used the state to create limited options for the many, to create buyers' market for labour by skewing the conditions under which workers can sell their labour in the bosses favour. To then merrily answer all criticisms of this set-up with the response that the workers "voluntarily agreed" to work on those terms is just hypocrisy. Does it really change things if the mugger (the state) is only the agent (hired thug) of another criminal (the owning class)?

So, while it is definitely the case that no one forces you to work for them, the capitalist system is such that you have little choice but to sell your liberty and labour on the "free market." Not only this, but the labour market (which is what makes capitalism capitalism) is (usually) skewed in favour of the employer, so ensuring that any "free agreements" made on it favour the boss and result in the workers submitting to domination and exploitation.
 
2012-11-15 11:04:09 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: Great Janitor: It's up to the employees to make things better.

What do you think this strike is about?


I get that, but they don't own it, so if the company doesn't want to change, then they are free to find a job elsewhere.
 
2012-11-15 11:04:28 PM

Fark Me Runnin: If it sucks so badly to work there, farking quit. Dumbasses.

Of course, if you walk out on black friday, you might not have to.

Most of the walmart employees I've encountered wouldn't even be worth $1.25 an hour. They act like the world owes them.


Hey look! It's another person who has never worked retail!
 
2012-11-15 11:04:53 PM

Ehcks: Doing it wrong

Ehcks: Doing it wrong! You're not supposed to say you're doing it. You just don't show up!


Know how I know you've never been in a union?

You always give the employer a chance to come to the table and bargain before you walk out. Striking is not the first action, it's the last resort.

And I say good on them. Workers have the right to organize in most states. They have the right to go to management as a group and ask for fair wages and benefits. And they have a right to demand their employers follow labor law, with a collective strength that makes it possible for them to action that and hold them to it.

Telling Wal-Mart that they plan to strike in a week, on the busiest day of the year, is the smartest thing they can do. It gives Wal-Mart a chance to come to the table and give them what they want before shiat gets real, and follows the principles of good faith bargaining while making it clear that they have leverage.

Don't forget - people farking DIED for the 40-hour work week, minimum wage, and the right to take a break. This is exactly the same fight, and shouldn't be necessary at all in this day and age.

And I don't shop at Wal-Mart anyway, so it's fun to point and laugh at them.
 
2012-11-15 11:05:16 PM

Silly Jesus: I hope they are all fired.


And then they could sue WalMart for pretty well anything they want. Oh and WalMart would also face federal lawsuits.
 
2012-11-15 11:06:44 PM

CujoQuarrel: Mikey1969: CujoQuarrel: Do you have a pointer to that case? Love to read up on it.

Here's a quick story I found...
Link

Ok. Looks like they could still get out in case of fire (emergency exits and a manager with the key). Was wondering how they could do it and not get sued since that would be a safety issue.

Looks like from the article all they did was lock the doors to keep people out.

I would think that every store would lock it's doors at night when restocking or cleaning.


You missed this part, I guess...
Ms. Williams said Wal-Mart, with 1.2 million employees in its 3,500 stores nationwide, had recently altered its policy to ensure that every overnight shift at every store has a night manager with a key to let workers out in emergencies.

Here's another part:
Several Wal-Mart employees said that as recently as a few months ago they had been locked in on some nights without a manager who had a key. Robert Schuster said that until last October, when he left his job at a Sam's Club in Colorado Springs, workers were locked in every night, and on Friday and Saturday nights there was no one there with a key. One night, he recalled, a worker had been throwing up violently, and no one had a store key to let him out.

''They told us it's a big fine for the company if we go out the fire door and there's no fire,'' Mr. Schuster said. ''They gave us a big lecture that if we go out that door, you better make sure it's an emergency like the place going up on fire.'
'


And it took The New York TImes' investigation to start the 'Manager with a key' policy:
Several employees said Wal-Mart began making sure that there was someone with a key seven nights a week at the Colorado Springs store and other stores starting Jan. 1, shortly after The New York Times began making inquiries about employees' being locked in.

Then we have a manager chiming in about the real 'Why':
Tom Lewis, who managed four Sam's Clubs in Texas and Tennessee, said: ''It's to prevent shrinkage. Wal-Mart is like any other company. They're concerned about the bottom line, and the bottom line is affected by shrinkage in the store.''

Another reason for lock-ins, he said, was to increase efficiency -- workers could not sneak outside to smoke a cigarette, get high or make a quick trip home.


Sounds like they were locking them in to me, not locking other people out. Especially when you read the parts about low crime area WalMarts having the same policy. Besides, the very case the story talks about is a guy that shattered his ankle, and nobody was there with a key. If they opened the fire door without a fire, they could be fired, and it took a farking hour for the manager to get there with a key.
 
2012-11-15 11:07:29 PM

WhyteRaven74: Silly Jesus: I hope they are all fired.

And then they could sue WalMart for pretty well anything they want. Oh and WalMart would also face federal lawsuits.


And then it will wind its way through the courts until the plaintiffs run out of money in about 7 hours.
 
2012-11-15 11:07:39 PM
I get that this is mainly a workers vs employers thread at this point, but I can't help but think that the real problem is the consumers (and excessive consumerism). No one wants to pay for decently made products anymore because the only thing consumers look at is the price tag. I'm not good at explaining myself, but it feels like we all assume we've given up on even thinking we can rehabilitate the public on shopping effectively. Like consumers are compelled to shop at Walmart, just open one and people will flock there unable to control themselves.
On a tangent though, I've read that companies that want to sell with Walmart have to meet certain price guidelines otherwise Walmart won't carry their products and since Walmart is such an important chain to sell through. Companies are basically forced to make cheaper products for these dumbass consumers.
What this really all comes down to is that I hadn't had to buy denim jeans for a decade, and now that I'm looking, all I can find anywhere is paper thin garbage that doesn't feel sturdy at all, anywhere. When I compare it to my old ones, the newer ones are obviously inferior. Why would I want to spend $30 on a cheap pair of jeans I'll end up replacing 5 times in the span that a $60 pair would have lasted me once?
 
2012-11-15 11:08:13 PM

Sliding Carp: $5.00 says the party of small government, individual freedom, and free market will find a way to claim the government should force them back to work.


Stop being mean to Libertarians. They will do no such thing. Oh, wait, did you mean Republicans? That description does not fit that party very much. When pressed, most Republicans back away from their slogans. I have fun with this sometimes.
 
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